Abby and Alan explore the haunting real life history behind The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. We talk through the real life inspiration behind the novella, the impact of Jekyll and Hyde on culture and of course our favorite (and least favorite) adaptations.
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Get Lunatics Merch here. Join the discussion on Discord. Listen to the paranormal playlist I curate for Vurbl, updated weekly! Check out Abby's book Horror Stories. Available in eBook and paperback. Music by Michaela Papa, Alan Kudan & Jordan Moser. Poster Art by Pilar Keprta @pilar.kep.
Abby and Alan explore the haunting real life history behind The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. We talk through the real life inspiration behind the novella, the impact of Jekyll and Hyde on culture and of course our favorite (and least favorite) adaptations.
lunaticsproject.com
Get Lunatics Merch here. Join the discussion on Discord. Listen to the paranormal playlist I curate for Vurbl, updated weekly! Check out Abby's book Horror Stories. Available in eBook and paperback. Music by Michaela Papa, Alan Kudan & Jordan Moser. Poster Art by Pilar Keprta @pilar.kep.
Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of the Lunatic Radio Hour podcast. I'm Abby Brinker, sitting here with Alan Codan. Hello. And today we have for you the history and the impact of the Strange case of Dr. Jell and Mr. Hyde.
Speaker 2:I have a question. Okay. Is JCO and Hyde a universal movie monster? Universal monster verse? You know what I'm trying to say? Are they part of the universal monster verse? They
Speaker 1:Are.
Speaker 2:Is that, is that a phrase?
Speaker 1:It is not an official phrase, but yes, they are part of, they are universal monsters.
Speaker 2:I see. Okay. That's
Speaker 1:All question answered. Okay, great.
Speaker 2:So full transparency. I did not watch the original J one Hyde movie.
Speaker 1:You mean the original or the Universal?
Speaker 2:The Universal is not the original.
Speaker 1:No. There's actually an early one from 1920. Typical, but that's like, you know, it's like a silent film.
Speaker 2:Is this scary? Did you see it?
Speaker 1:It's not, of course it's not scary. It's from 1920. I've seen like clips from it.
Speaker 2:So movies from the twenties are terrifying.
Speaker 1:Not in the same way that like Hereditary is
Speaker 2:The scariest movie ever made
Speaker 1:<laugh>. Yeah. One of'em.
Speaker 2:It's, it's right up there with, uh, An Inconvenient Truth
Speaker 1:<laugh>. But here's the thing, there are so many Jacqueline Hyde iterations both like within like the universe of calling the characters Jacqueline Hyde, I think like upwards of 19 or 20 films. And then very similar takes on it with like different character names. And we're gonna talk through all of that. But there's just so much to get through with this one that, you know, and it, and it is, I think from movie to movie, it can be very repetitive, right? Cuz it's kind of like the verbatim story being told over and over again in a lot of the cases. And there's some, you know, funky versions, but for the most part, So I think we, you know, we did our diligence here and we have a strong sense of the subject matter going into this episode.
Speaker 2:Okay. So, I know in most of our episodes we really do our best to avoid spoilers.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah. There's gonna be spoilers.
Speaker 2:I'm just gonna rip off the bandaid right here in right here. Now let's
Speaker 1:Do it.
Speaker 2:J and Hyde are the same person.
Speaker 1:Dun dun dun.
Speaker 2:Which is a huge reveal in the book. We both read the book for this.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And the book was written in the 18 hundreds,
Speaker 2:So you've had plenty of time to read it.
Speaker 1:<laugh>, you've had a lifetime to read it. Yeah, and I think like most people are, that's a spoiler, but like most people are very aware, I think of the premise. Sure. Before we get into everything, cuz we have so much to talk about one housekeeping item super fast. It is now October, our holy month. We are so happy that it is October and we have some really fun things going on. Anyway, the point is, for October, for the month of October only, we are having the biggest merch sale that we are ever going to have. 25% off with the code Spooky 25 all caps. Spooky 25. If you go to lunatic project.com, click on mer on the top right, and you'll be taken to our merch store. We have tons of very cool designs from very cool designers. A lot of takes on like our episodes. Like there's Moth Man, there's killer cars, there's mermaids, there's a Death TA card design. There's so many designs that we really love and we think are really cool and we wanted to offer something special this month. But again, it's, it's not going to happen again for a very, very long time. So head over to lunix project.com, click on merch Spooky 25, and that will last until Halloween through, through the month of October. There we go. Housekeeping out of the way. That's all I wanted to say. Thank God, Michelle, we do sources really quick and then get into the fun stuff. Sure. Okay. There's an all things interesting article called Meet William Brody, a BBC article by Steven Brocklehurst, The Real Jacqueline Hyde, An Atlas obscure article by Eric Grund, Houser, the creepy cabinet that inspired Jacqueline Hde. A screen ran article by Zach Gas, 10 best Jacqueline Hyde movies ranked by imdb, a ranker article, Famous cases of dissociative identity disorder, my Cleveland clinic.org article on dissociative identity disorder, and of course, Wikipedia. And Im db Today we are talking about the strange case of Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde in 1886, right at the tail end of the major gothic horror wave in literature. Robert Louis Stevenson's novella, The Strange Case of Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde was published. It went on to inspire 19 film adaptations, 11 major radio dramas, over 10 television adaptations, several books, comic books and video games.
Speaker 2:Video games. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> like what?
Speaker 1:Well, we'll see, we'll get into that at the pop culture section. Oh
Speaker 2:Geez, come on. This
Speaker 1:Is just our introduction, you know,
Speaker 2:I wanna play the JetLine Hide video game.
Speaker 1:I mean, it, it does sound really fun.<laugh> especially like, I love anything that's like gothic Victorian themed, you know, that setting. It's,
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm just imagining it for being like original Nintendo where you're just like side scrolling and have to like stomp on little kids
Speaker 1:<laugh>. That's funny. If you haven't listened to the audio book, I just wanna say it's fairly short because again, it's a Nobel so it's about three, three and a half hours. There's versions on Audible. But Spoiler, our friend John Cook for the Fido podcast has kind of partnered with us around this episode. And starting October 30th, he's going to be releasing his version, um, his narration of it on the Fido podcast. So that would be a free alternative to buying the audio book if you are interested in, in listening to it around Halloween,
Speaker 2:Which is always a great time to listen to spooky things.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Now the one on Audible, there's a fairly, there's a bunch, cuz again, this is, what's the term? Not duty free that's at the airport.
Speaker 1:Uh, public domain.
Speaker 2:It's public domain. Thank you. Also duty free<laugh>. Uh, so, you know, anybody can put out a version of this audio book
Speaker 1:And or any, that's why there's so many adaptations of it across mediums.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah. It can be recreated as many times as possible. And I honestly wish more stuff was in the public domain. Yes. However, uh, there's one in Audible by Richard Armitage Armitage, I'm not sure how you say his name, but he's a, I dunno, I really like his stuff. I, I thought he was like one of the selling points of the, the Hobbit movies<laugh>. Um, but it's, it's a very fun read. Yeah. Uh, he does some pretty good voices. It's a pretty quick book. Like it doesn't take a long time to get through, which means I'm really excited to just like, jump back in and listen to another version. Uh, and I am very, very excited for John's reading cuz he does such a good job with classic material. It just like, he like really brings it to life. Yes.
Speaker 1:We're super, super excited for John's version, and we're gonna have teaser, we're gonna have an excerpt from that in the stories episode to where everybody's palette. So something to look forward to for next week. Great. Let's start with a high level overview of the plot. Right. Most people are probably aware of the premise, but just to kind of brush everybody up on the specifics, The story is centered around a character named Gabriel John Terson an attorney, and he is investigating these strange doings of his friend Dr. Jeckle and a murderer named Mr. Hyde. Right. And so, as Alan said, like the twist at the end is that aha, he finds out that they're the same person. Dr. Jeckle is kind and patient. He's very, very well respected. He works hard to try and repress the hide version of himself, but obviously he isn't always successful. And the story has this splash of science fiction, which makes some of the stuff we're gonna talk about today. I kind of debated whether or not it was in scope, but it sort of has this splash of science fiction because in order to combat his evil urges, the doctor develops a serum that he hopes will suppress the murderer side of him. But what it does is to create his alter ego, Mr. Hyde.
Speaker 2:Is that why he makes the serum?
Speaker 1:That's a, Yeah.
Speaker 2:I I thought it was he just wanted to, he wanted to suppress his murder side. He did.
Speaker 1:That's literally what I just said.
Speaker 2:No, no, no. That's, I'm I'm asking you this. Yeah. Okay. Uh, I I interpreted it differently.
Speaker 1:Okay. Tell me,
Speaker 2:Um, because the final chapter of the book is like the little memoirs Yeah. Of Dr. Jeckle. I thought that he wanted a serum that I thought he was trying to develop some kind of serum that would remove his, uh, inhibitions.
Speaker 1:Oh, maybe I mis maybe I misinterpreted it then
Speaker 2:Also, I mean, I could be wrong. I I'll just finish and then we, we can come to our conclusions. Great. So, um, I thought it was, he was trying to develop this serum that removes inhibitions. And so, uh, in order to further experimental medicine, he thought that without the constraints of society, Right, uh, then he could be a, a miraculous doctor. Right. Uh, or whatever he wants to do. And then, but once he took the serum, he turned into hide and all this newfound freedom came with it. But he still, then he turned, discovered that he's kind of a horrible guy. And so after taking it just a few times, he quickly finds himself being hide as the default. And then he has to take the serum to transform back to transform into j And every time he falls asleep, he would wake up at his hide again. So, uh, he would basically take the serum as hide to indeed remove those murderous instincts because the tables had flipped. And I'd also never seen that before. We'll, we'll, we'll get more into this in the pop culture section, but, uh, I was kind of surprised by the mechanics of the serum and how they worked, uh, in the original literature.
Speaker 1:It's interesting. So I just looked it up because I didn't wanna be made a fool.
Speaker 2:No, no one wants that.
Speaker 1:Uh, and according to Dark Universe wiki.com,
Speaker 2:The, the pinnacle of all knowledge
Speaker 1:<laugh>, it says that the serum was developed in an effort to control Edward Hyde. What I think is happening in the story is that the character, whoever he is, is, is kind of both Right. The, and then what he takes is serum to try to suppress this like side of him that he doesn't love and it's splinters. So he's like, then literally, like te he has two personalities versus one person who has like two sides of the coin. Right. Who's good and bad. He becomes two internal personalities that are distinct from each other.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I, I, I, I'm, I'm still trying to, you know, extrapolate from my own reading here, if he was taking the serum to control Hyde, why would he take it the first time? Hyde didn't exist until he took the serum. So there had to be something.
Speaker 1:Well, his, Yeah. He knows he has this dark side. Hmm. It just wasn't, My name is Edward Hyde.
Speaker 2:Gotcha. So,
Speaker 1:And then it created that alter ego.
Speaker 2:Okay. So it wasn't so much he was trying to suppress him his inhibitions. He was trying to suppress his impulses. Right. So, Okay.
Speaker 1:His like kernel, whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because then he goes on to say how as Jeckle, he's a balanced human being. Right. And then it was supposed to strip away the evil part, but instead it stripped away the good part. And hide is pure evil.
Speaker 1:Exactly. It's sort of just like segmented them.
Speaker 2:That's what happens when you know you love it, Let it simmer for too long.
Speaker 1:So it happens when you try to play, God, we've seen it with Dr. Frankenstein, All of these doctors. We should have definitely put, uh, in our mad scientist episode. We missed that opportunity.
Speaker 2:We had a mad scientist episode. Yeah. No we didn't.
Speaker 1:No, you're right. We didn't<laugh> Well, I had, I, we had one with Sarah, um, Quincy, where we talked about Cro and Burke and mad scientist. But that was a following, uh, invisible man. I, for first second thought it was a whole mad scientist series We did. But don't listen to me. What the do I know? Okay, here we go.
Speaker 2:We can certainly do a mad scientist episode. That might be fun.
Speaker 1:We'll add it to the list, our literal list. So there's so much to say about the history of this piece of literature.
Speaker 2:Say one thing,
Speaker 1:<laugh> and about the impact that it had on pop culture to really understand Jacqueline Hyde. We need to start with the author Robert Louis Stevenson was born in November of 1850 in Scotland. Is
Speaker 2:It Louis or Lewis?
Speaker 1:I thought it was Lewis. But then I heard it's, I watched a bunch of like videos and stuff to prepare for this episode. And a lot of people said, Louis, Wow. Maybe it's Lewis I'll, uh, I'll just like flip back and forth a bunch so no one can get mad at me. Sure. In addition to today's subject matter, Stevenson is also known for writing Alan Treasure Island. I
Speaker 2:Love Treasure Island.
Speaker 1:I know that you do also a novel called Kidnapped in a book of poems called A Child's Garden of Verses.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I, once I figured out that this was the same guy that wrote both Yeah. Well, you know, Jackline Hyde and Treasure Island. I was like, Wow, what else has he written? And it's like, I've never heard of
Speaker 1:Anything else. Yeah. Those are his two hits. He was a two hit wonder.
Speaker 2:I mean, he had a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But those are the ones that really sure are famous.
Speaker 2:Right. That have survived like 200 years. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Stevenson had chronic health issues related to bronchitis throughout his life. Typical, He only lived to be 44 years old. Oh,
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:But in that time, he had a fairly prolific writing career, often mixing in the literary circles of London, and finally spending years living in Samoa. In December of 1894, Stevenson was sitting with his wife struggling to open a bottle of wine. He said, quote, What's that? Followed by quote, Does my face look exchange before collapsing? His death is thought to have been caused by a cerebral hemorrhage. And so these words, a requiem that he had written, are inscribed on his tomb per his wishes, under the wide and starry sky. Dig the grave. And let me lie, Glad did I live and gladly die. And I laid me down with a will. This be the verse, you grave for me. Here he lies. Where he longed to be home is a sailor home from sea and the hunter home from the hill. He is buried in Samoa on top of a mountain overlooking the ocean. According to Wikipedia, in 2018, he was ranked as the 26 most translated author in the world just after Charles Dickinson.
Speaker 2:Wow. Wait, who's higher than Dickens? I mean, I know there's plenty, but 26 seems low.
Speaker 1:Number one, Agatha Christie
Speaker 2:Suck it. Bible
Speaker 1:<laugh>. Well, it's author. There's no like known author of the Bible. Jules Verne is king. Number
Speaker 2:King. King James. I believe.
Speaker 1:So. Number two is Chris Oya hii, who is the founder and president of Love World, Incorporated what also known as Christ Embassy based in Nigeria.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Number three is Jules Fern for Shakespeare. Five Enid Blaton, six, Barbara Curtland. A lot of people, I don't know. Uh, yeah. Danielle Steele Flat, Amir Lennon, Hans Christian Anderson, Steven King is 10. A bunch of Germans coming in next. Nora Roberts. Mark Twain is 17, Dostoevsky is 18. Pope John Paul. The second is 21. Leo Tolstoy is 25.
Speaker 2:A lot of surprising.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting. I would've thought Shakespeare would ha you know, would be higher. But
Speaker 2:I mean, I get it. The, the metric is weird, you know? Right. Because like if you sell a trillion paperback novels, you're higher on the list.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So Yeah. So that's how Steven King out does
Speaker 1:Outsells the Pope.
Speaker 2:Yeah. There you
Speaker 1:Go. Out as, as out translated
Speaker 2:Done. Yeah. I mean, honestly, he's probably selling a lot more copies than the Pope.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Oh, totally. All right. So I wasn't expecting this little twist and turn that I found in the research. Oh. But there is a little twist and turn.
Speaker 2:Okay. And keep teasing. Are you ready? Just keep teasing for a bit.
Speaker 1:You buckled up.
Speaker 2:I never unbuckled<laugh>.
Speaker 1:Jacqueline Hyde was published when Stevenson was 36 years old. But the root of the inspiration can be traced back to Stevenson's childhood bedroom. Stevenson grew up with a cabinet in his bedroom that was built by a man named William Brody. Brody was a well respected and successful cabinet maker in locksmith and edinboro. He was so good at his job. He was made deacon of the incorporation of Ritz, which is described as more of like a, a guild. You know, it's, he's not like a religious deacon. It's kind of like being the head of the guild.
Speaker 2:I was gonna say, how does one become a deacon? What is a deacon?
Speaker 1:It's like a woodworking guild. So I think a deacon is like a leadership position. And in the church, obviously it's like a religious leader. But in general, I think there that phrase is used to be like the president of a guild or other things can be a deacon.
Speaker 2:So you could be the deacon of this podcast.
Speaker 1:I am the deacon of this podcast.
Speaker 2:What am I
Speaker 1:Assistant to? The deacon<laugh>. So this position also gave him a seat on the city council. So this guy was connected. He was important, He was very well respected, right? Mm-hmm.<affirmative> Because of his role as a locksmith. So he, not only was he this cabinet maker, but he also was a locksmith. He, he had like many trades. And because he was a locksmith, he had access to keys of many of the well to do homes in the neighborhood. Right? Sure. So it would happen is that, as you know, someone would drop off their keys in order to make a copy or whatever. He would make like a secret wax mold and make his own set of keys. So he had like secret backup keys to everybody's houses.
Speaker 2:They didn't know about this.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Cause that, that's like standard locksmith practice Now
Speaker 1:What? But they, but they, you, if you go to a locksmith in New York, they don't know where you live. Um, he knows all of these people.
Speaker 2:So I, I have multiple memories of going to get keys copied. And when you go to copy the front door to your building, so like, if you don't have like a doorman or, or like an automatic door or anything like that, uh, and you have to like unlock your front door. I've been asked like what my address is specifically. So what, Cause I know I thought it was like super, super weird. And I used to give like a fake address because again, like, why does this guy need to know what, where I live? And then one time I just asked, and he's like, Well, I'm a locksmith. I I I'm just basically making a library of all the locks, all the front door locks in the building so that, you know, if you call this locksmith number to, cuz you're locked out, then I can just use the key to that building. Uh, or if anyone else calls, I just have a giant library of keys. That way I don't have to pick or break a lock.
Speaker 1:They could also break into your house. So it, wouldn't it be better just to have your name or something versus having your address.
Speaker 2:Sure. But, so, you know, say your next door neighbor calls cuz they're locked out. And then it's like, well, we can actually get you into the front door of your building. I can't get you into the unit. We'll have to pick that lock half the time. It's because people just walk out the front building door and it locks automatically. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, you know.
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:So that, that's how least how it was explained to me. It still seems pretty shady.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Okay. That's interesting. I would, I understand the logic of that, of leaving the keys with the locksmith, but I'm weary of the address piece. Like, just leave it under my phone number or something, you know? Yeah,
Speaker 2:No, I mean, I get it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I also don't like it.
Speaker 1:Did you do it? Did some locksmith have access to our apartment?
Speaker 2:No. This time, all the buildings, apparently the, the, our front door key is impossible to copy. We had to order directly from the building.
Speaker 1:Oh, right, right, right. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Cause they're jerks.
Speaker 1:We're extra secure.
Speaker 2:Mm.
Speaker 1:<laugh>. So, Okay. So what he would do with these keys, you ask, well throw'em away. He would use them to break into the homes of the rich and wealthy in his town undetected and rob these families. So in essence, Brody lived this double life to polite society. He was successful, respected, professional, and he had the trust of his community. Not only did he provide furniture and services for the town, but he also had leadership and political positions. Right. However, behind closed doors, Brody was a burglar, a gambler, an adulterer. He had two secret mistresses and became the father to five children. I'm gonna quote here from Wikipedia quote. He repeatedly began his criminal career around 1768 when he copied keys to a bank door, installed 800 pounds. Wow. Then enough to maintain a household for several years. In 1786, he recruited a gang of three thieves. John Brown, a thief on the run from a seven year sentence of transportation. George Smith of Berkshire, a locksmith who ran a grocery shop in Cowgate. And Andrew Ainsley a shoemaker. By 1785, Brody was spending his evenings gambling at a tavern on flash market clothes owned by a Mr. Clark. But his public reputation was high. And in the summer of 1788, he was chosen to sit on a jury in the high court end quote.
Speaker 2:Uh, I just wanna throw in one little factoid there. Just, just as a metric, how much do you think 800 pounds and 1780 would be today
Speaker 1:In pounds or dollars
Speaker 2:In, in US dollars? Just because that's what we're most familiar with.
Speaker 1:Mm. Well, they said you can maintain a household for several years. He's a rich household too. So he's, so I would say$1 million,
Speaker 2:Uh, that's shooting a little high. It's 177,000. It, it rounds up to$178,000.
Speaker 1:You're right. I guess a million dollars is a lot of money to maintain a household for several
Speaker 2:Years. I mean, depends on the household. I
Speaker 1:Was just pic picturing him as like, you know, a political leader. Like he has the reputation to uphold
Speaker 2:All, in all fairness, I did this conversion to the pounds right now and the pound is like tanking hard. Yeah. So, had we done this a couple years ago,
Speaker 1:Who knows?
Speaker 2:It would've, It could have been million. Would've been a million trillions.
Speaker 1:Cool Million. Yeah.
Speaker 2:A cool meal.
Speaker 1:<laugh>. So, Right. So Brody's trajectory here is that after this initial bank break in, he kind of gets the taste for this life of crime, if you will. And he's one of those like exceptionally annoying criminals cuz he's already kind of like, well to do. But he then like recruits, he kind of creates this circle. He has this gambling ring that goes on, like, everything about him is just like a con man. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, you know, he appears as very, very, very well to do. Very important, very charming. But in reality, you know, even with like his relationships, he's not being open and honest with his partners. He's lying. You know, everything is a lie, essentially.
Speaker 2:Sounds like someone we know.
Speaker 1:So this goes on for several years, um, until he faces his downfall. So I'm quoting here from the all things interesting article quote, A planned heist on an excise office failed. And Brody went to the authorities to claim a king's. Pardon? He ratted out Smith and Ainsley, who were also there. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, who in turn ratted out Brody as the man behind the robberies. Brody fled to the Netherlands, but he was arrested in Amsterdam and sent back to Edinboro.
Speaker 2:Brody Wood flew to the Netherlands.
Speaker 1:He was then hanged in front of 40,000 people.
Speaker 2:I thought you were gonna say in front of 40 people. Mike, That's a very specific detail.<laugh>
Speaker 1:40,000 is so many.
Speaker 2:Is it? I I guess for
Speaker 1:Then, I mean for like a, I don't know, it just feels like a large, that's like a concert, you know?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Like, we're gonna see Lady Gaga. We're going to see this criminal be hang to be killed.
Speaker 2:I guess it's like, So when was this? This was like 18 nine,
Speaker 1:Like 17 hundreds.
Speaker 2:Sorry. Yeah. But it's like late 1700 at this point. Yeah. 40,000 people. Where where was this?
Speaker 1:Edinboro Scotland.
Speaker 2:Okay. I guess, Yeah. How big was the town? Like,
Speaker 1:What was, I mean, it's, it's a big city in Scotland. But
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, if, if someone is getting hanged and you don't have the internet, aren't you gonna go watch? You have nothing else to do?
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna go watch someone be hanged.
Speaker 2:You can either plow your fields, die of the black death. That's the,
Speaker 1:You are wildly all over the place right now.
Speaker 2:Or you can go watch this guy. I'm gonna cut this, the public execution
Speaker 1:Before you say something I have to edit out. So there's actually rumors that Brody built the JT that he was hanged on, or the Gallos.
Speaker 2:Oh, is that what it, the exhibit is the same thing as the
Speaker 1:Yeah. As Galls, correct.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:<affirmative>. Which, because again, he was a woodworker. Right?
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:It's kind of like that rumor that like a woman executed Ted Bundy, you know,
Speaker 2:What do you mean?
Speaker 1:Well, Ted Bundy was this very prolific, terrible serial killer in the United States. Killed targeted young women. Killed them in horrific ways. A lot of women, like, you know, really obviously had like issues and you can never see an execution. Right. Was against the death penalty. They always wear a hood for their safety. But there's all of these rumors that
Speaker 2:Do they still do that?
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.<affirmative> that her like, that the executioner had these like very feminine eyelashes and eyes and like, really looked like a woman. But like, it's kind of that thing of like execution lore I guess. But also like this revenge of the women against, you know, this man that killed so many of them.
Speaker 2:Geez. I, I never knew I was gonna be interested in execution lore.
Speaker 1:Here we are. Happy October.
Speaker 2:You know, I actually know where we can get an electric chair.
Speaker 1:I'm really not interested in
Speaker 2:That. Someone was just talking about it the other day, who we are on set and someone was saying, Anyone want an electric chair?
Speaker 1:That's crazy. Did you report them?
Speaker 2:No. It's, it's, These are needed things.
Speaker 1:I would not allow an electric chair in the home. I think it's the worst type of way to die. Really?
Speaker 2:Yes. The one
Speaker 1:One of no one of though.
Speaker 2:Cause I can think of significantly worse ways.
Speaker 1:Okay, Mr. Imagination.
Speaker 2:Uh, but that's it. No, I I, the electric chair scares me very much. Yeah. It's, it's, it's one of the more terrifying ways outside of like, getting real creative with torture
Speaker 1:E Exactly. Yeah. Okay. So there's a pub in Edinborough named for Brody, as well as one in Ottawa and one in New York City. Oh,
Speaker 2:Yes. Is that the Jackline Hyde Club?
Speaker 1:No. It's really funny you say that actually though. Because,
Speaker 2:Because I was outside it and I wanted, I took a picture for you and then found out it closed.
Speaker 1:I think we were together.
Speaker 2:No, I took a picture for you and sent it to you. You just think about it? No,
Speaker 1:Because I sent it to No, no, no, no. Okay. So one of my very, very best friends, Olivia, she, she does, uh, she's designed some of our merch before our Bigfoot merch and our, uh, oui plan chats. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. So shout out to Olivia, all of dying. But Olivia grew up in Manhattan and would go like, had birthday parties all the time growing up as a kid at Jacqueline Hde. It was like this very kitchy bar, um, like themed bar, Right. Like horror themed bar. And there would be like smoke and it was kind of like a Chucky cheese, but like for horror for kids. That's cool. Yeah. And so she was visiting, She doesn't live here anymore, but she was visiting a few months ago and we walked by and she was like, You don't know what this is. And we bound out that I think during the pandemic had closed. Mm. We were so bummed. But anyway, r i p to Jacqueline Hyde that we never got to go to, but Olivia said it was best memories of her childhood. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It looked pretty cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Super cool. We'll have to have Olivia on to recall all of her Jacqueline Hyde stories. Sure.
Speaker 2:Well maybe that can come in the Jacqueline Hyde stories episode.
Speaker 1:<laugh>. Okay. So, Right. We've talked about Brody. We understand Brody. Now we're gonna switch back to how Brody's story intersects with Robert Lewis Stevenson. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> or Robert Louis Stevenson. Let's
Speaker 2:Call him Lewis
Speaker 1:<laugh>. So Stevenson grew up in the new town region of Edinborough. Stevenson's bedroom was on the second floor of the family home. And at the end of his bed sat a mahogany veneer cabinet. And you can actually look up photos of this cabinet. It looks kind of like a tall like Armour type of thing with two doors. Okay. And so, spoiler alert, right. Brody had built this cabinet. Hmm. This was a Brody original cabinet. Sure. And so we have this very prominent, and this is, you know, a hundred years later or
Speaker 2:Whatever. Wait a sec. Brody was a woodworker and a locksmith.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Correct.
Speaker 2:Uh, a man of all, a man for all seasons.
Speaker 1:A renaissance man. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. I wonder what his favorite seasons were.
Speaker 2:Well, we could ask him, but he's
Speaker 1:Dead. But he's dead. Stevenson has this cabinet in his house growing up. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, I am sure that he is aware of Brody story. Right. There's pubs named after him. It's this big deal in Edinborough, this history. Sure. And so it doesn't take a lot to assume, you know, Stevenson would've heard about this and maybe it could have helped inspire a dual personality type situation. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, especially someone who's very well respected has this secret life has this other side to them. Right. Yeah. Rick Wilson wrote a book called The Man Who was Jacqueline Hyde, The Lives and Crimes of Deacon Brody. And this book contains an interview with Stevenson where he talks about the connection between the character of Jacqueline Hyde and Deacon Brody Stevenson shares a dream. He had quote, for instance, all I dreamed about Jackle was that one man was being pressed into a cabinet when he swallowed a drug and changed into another being. And the cabinet comes into play there. Right. Like his, he has this like, literal dream. He has a dream about one man being forced into a cabinet, swallowing a drug coming out. Another man. I get the subconscious ties there, but also it's literally the cabinet is the tie in here, you know, Which is
Speaker 2:Interesting. Not to mention in the book there's like a very unnecessarily Yeah. Descriptive passage talking about the cabinet where the potion is kept. Exactly. I thought that was
Speaker 1:Odd. It was like the anatomy chapter in, uh, Mobi Dick, the whale anatomy chapter.
Speaker 2:The one whale anatomy chapter. You
Speaker 1:Know what I mean? The, the section.
Speaker 2:But yeah, like, and then they have to, cuz they have to break into that cabinet at one point and they hire both a woodworker and a locksmith. See, which I found interesting. Why
Speaker 1:Not? Ru is everywhere
Speaker 2:And they, they, they do get in no problem.
Speaker 1:They get in no problem.
Speaker 2:Not no problem. It was actually quite difficult.
Speaker 1:Stevenson goes on to say that Deacon Brody wasn't part of his night vision quote. I certainly didn't dream that meaning specifically about Brody. But in the room in which I slept as a child in Edinboro, there was a cabinet and a very pretty piece of work. It was too, from the hands of the original Deacon Brody end quote. So it really seems to be no leap of the imagination to say that Brody inspired the character of Jacqueline Hyde in some ways. Hmm. It laid the, the foundation in Stevenson's head. And again, we, like you just said, we see callbacks to the cabinet in the book, we see callbacks to woodworking and locksmith. So I think there's some eres there and I think it makes the, the book a more robust listen. Sure. When you know about this real life Brody character and you know how his life impacted that of Stevenson's life.
Speaker 2:I absolutely. It's, it's, I didn't realize that this was gonna be based on a, a person
Speaker 1:I know, right. Kind of interesting. So what we're gonna talk about next isn't one to one with what would have inspired Stevenson to write Jacqueline Hyde. A because a lot of the research and the, you know, psychological understanding of it, I dunno if that's the right way to say it, but a lot of that probably happened after he died. But there are some cases that I think might have intersected with his life, but too, because to me, Jacqueline Hyde is a little bit more of a science fiction story than like a, a tale about like someone who suffers from multiple personality. Right. It's like, it's a serum inspired situation. Well,
Speaker 2:I, I think it's a fair thing to include even if the, the term split personality disorder or even what it's been renamed today of what, what
Speaker 1:Is it? Dissociative Identity
Speaker 2:Disorder. Thank you. Uh, e even if these terms weren't even a twinkling in some medical textbooks, I then these things, these ideas were still around.
Speaker 1:Well the cases still exist even if they weren't defined or understood
Speaker 2:Right. They would just get classified as some other psychosis or mental illness or something.
Speaker 1:Right. Or something even, you know,
Speaker 2:Not to mention like scientific, you know, we can, we can do the reverse where, how these early cases have influenced so many future, you know, works later on.
Speaker 1:Well that's exactly why I decided to keep it in because even though, you know, it's, we can't say, Oh, this is why Stevenson wrote this or this was in his life, you know, in his awareness. We can say that there's a bunch of works we're gonna talk about later in the episode that our inspired by Jacqueline Hyde that certainly take this research into account. So I just think it like helps round out the theme in general of this kind of, you know, dual or more personality within one character. Cool. Let's do it. Here we go. Quoting from my cleveland clinic.org, because I don't wanna mess up any of the sciencey jargon here. Dissociative identity disorder, d i d is a mental health condition. People with d i d have two or more separate identities. These personalities control their behavior at different times. Each identity has its own personal history traits, likes and dislikes. D i d can lead to gaps in memory and hallucinations, believing something is real when it isn't. Dissociative identity disorder used to be called multiple personality disorder or split personality disorder and quote, according to Cleveland Clinic, d i d is usually a result of trauma, physical or sexual abuse as a child. Right. And so the idea is that when something, and you hear about dissociation all the time, right? With with mental health conditions. But if something really terrible is happening to you, the idea is that your, your brain sort of like splinters to protect itself, um, from kind of having to deal with the memories or deal with the, the terribleness of what's happened. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And again, we could do a whole nother exploration of this at some point, but I just wanted to include a few famous cases of d i d here. It's not an all inclusive list, but it's just a few cases that I thought were interesting. I'm gonna start off with one case from the 18 hundreds, again, kind of to illustrate what was happening during Stevenson's lifetime. So this is the case of Louis or Lewis VI Vet, as you'll hear over and over again with the examples that we're about to share. He had a childhood marked by abuse and neglect. And then later at the age of 17, while he was working outside in a field, a viper wrapped itself around his arm, which caused him to black out from the fear. He continued to have convulsions into the evening into the years 1880. He was admitted into an asylum where he eventually became stable for a brief period of time. And after being released, he would then be in and out of hospitals while these convulsions would return. And so the thing with him is that right? Like he ended up with these two distinct personalities. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> one, which, the one clearly, you know, I will say that remembers maybe the trauma of the Viper loses the loss of his legs while the other can walk. Totally fine. Interesting. Yep. Why? Why they say the brain, the brain body connection. The brain works in mysterious ways.<laugh>, it's believed that he had up to 10 personalities after this event and some had the ability to walk while others didn't. Right. So it wasn't one to one, it was kind of like these ones could walk, these ones couldn't. Hmm. And we see themes like that a lot with cases of d i d. So the case of Chris Costner Sizemore, she was the real life inspiration for the book and film. The Three Faces of Eve, if anyone is familiar with that. Nope. Though in reality she had 22 different personalities, not three in the movie. I think they pair it down to make it a little more palatable.
Speaker 2:Hmm.
Speaker 1:But 22 different personalities. I'm sure this is a common trait among people who have this condition, but some of Chris's personalities had varying levels of skills. Meaning, for example, some of them knew how to drive and some of them didn't. Which is, you know, it makes sense if you have 22 people, like, you know how many of them can drive? Probably if you can't<laugh>,
Speaker 2:I don't know. I'm sorry. That's just like, it's a little lame. Cuz I was expecting like some of them are brain surgeons, others are astronauts. It's like, no, some, some can drive.
Speaker 1:Sure. If you look at
Speaker 2:It that way. Others know how to use a spoon. It's like,
Speaker 1:So there was one case where the patient was cured of this, of this condition. The case of Karen over hill who had 17 distinct personalities. She again, had suffered from childhood abuse at the hands of both her father and grandfather. A man named Dr. Bear was able to help Karen through hypnotism and other therapies to eventually integrate all of these personalities into one personality again. So she was one, you know, holistic thinker. I don't know the right way to say that, but you know what I'm saying. And then final, uh, honorary mention here, Tokin Noble of the UK who had over 100 personalities. And again, this is a result of extreme trauma and abuse that she suffered as a child
Speaker 2:And not one could drive
Speaker 1:<laugh> God. Okay. So those are kind of like the, you know, cuz again, the point of this podcast right? Is to connect horror into real life mythology or history. And so I think those were the ways that I saw the story of Jacqueline Hyde connecting to real life in, in different Elements.
Speaker 2:I think you did a great job.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:Do we have any historic examples of someone taking drugs and becoming a different person,
Speaker 1:Splitting their personality into an evil murder and a doctor?
Speaker 2:I mean, that's a little specific, but Sure. Do we have any of that?
Speaker 1:I think this is science fiction, so no, I don't think that that really happens. Mm. So sorry,
Speaker 2:I was just curious. You know, you never know. Sometimes you pull a rabbit out.
Speaker 1:<laugh>, as we tease at the beginning of the episode, there are a ton of direct adaptations of Jacqueline Hyde,
Speaker 2:Most of which are quite boring.<laugh>.
Speaker 1:So true. Also a ton of more abstract interpretations.
Speaker 2:Some are less boring.
Speaker 1:So let's start with some of the namesake versions. And again, we did not watch all 19 versions of the film cause
Speaker 2:They're so boring.
Speaker 1:I really like, you know, we picked Jacqueline Hyde in October because we were like, this is spooky.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 1:And certain versions are spooky, but not the vast majority are not.
Speaker 2:But also, like you and I had both previously started the book. Yeah. Just, and neither of us had finished it just like years back. We'd pick, we'd started reading just, and we'd just like dropped off. Uh, JCO and Hyde being in the universal monster verse. Yep. Uh,
Speaker 1:A monster verse that we
Speaker 2:Love. We have to round it out. Yeah.<laugh>. And it's a cool, it also, j o and Hyde hold a very, now that we're talking in the pop culture section Yeah. Hold a very special place in my heart because of a, of a film that we both really, really love. Come on. What is it? Come on. You can do it. Come on. You like this movie,
Speaker 1:The League of Extraordinary gentlemen.
Speaker 2:That's correct. A fantastic movie. Yes. And also my absolute favorite depiction of Jacqueline Hyde. And also I thought this,
Speaker 1:But you haven't seen a universal monster version.
Speaker 2:Uh, no, no. Well, we, we scrubbed through some of the old ones and, and none of them looked like none of the hides look anything like the Hide from League of Extraordinary gentlemen.
Speaker 1:No. Well, yeah, they're much older.
Speaker 2:Well, right, but I first off, because League of Extra Gentleman was my first, uh, exposure to the story of Jacqueline Hyde.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Uh, and so I thought that when this guy took a po he would take a potion to transform. He would, his body would physically morph into this giant hulking creature. Right. Uh, and then eventually the potion would wear off and he would turn back in. You know, it basically be like a super soldier serum that also makes you evil. Uh, which I thought was like so fricking cool. And then we get into all the other film depictions and that never happens again.
Speaker 1:They're very, very hit and miss.
Speaker 2:But usually you turn in, he turns into like just another guy.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, I, I think he turns into something that's not like hulking but kind of al almost handicapped. Like in a lot of cases he develops like, kind of like a hunchback or a limp, like things like that. Like he changes physically, but like in a realistic way where it's like a split personality versus a science fiction thing of somebody like bulking up. Well,
Speaker 2:I was really confused because in the book, one of the very first descriptions of Hyde is as a juggernaut. Like that's the word that they use. You get to the end of the book and when Jack is describing Hyde himself and the description is, well he's newer, so he's younger and he's shorter<laugh>. It's like, okay, she's starting to leave child<laugh>. What's going on here? That is not what I picture when I hear the word juggernaut. Yeah. I was picturing hide from League of Extraordinary gentlemen just dressed in nice clothes that don't rip, you know? Yeah. Uh, obviously he got hammed up for that version up, but somewhere in between I was expecting a big monstrous man. Not just in, in both physicality, not just in character.
Speaker 1:Fair enough.
Speaker 2:That's what I have to say about that. I feel cheated.
Speaker 1:The top ranked of all of the Jacqueline Hyde versions according to to IMDB is the 1931 film, which is just simply called Dr. Jacqueline, Mr. Hyde. This is the universal monster version. It also makes sense despite its age. It's one of the more recognizable versions for this reason. Right. Because it has the fire power of the universal world. It's a pre-code horror film that What does that mean? Every time I say that? You ask that. Well,
Speaker 2:Because I forget.
Speaker 1:It means before the ratings, you know, before films had to be censored Got it. Or censorship.
Speaker 2:If, if I forget, there's someone out there that doesn't know either.
Speaker 1:It Stars Frederick March and it was nominated for three Academy Awards and March one for best actor a horror film
Speaker 2:In March. One.
Speaker 1:March is the actor who won for Best. He won the Academy Award for Best Actor Marsh. Yes. Gotcha. For playing Jacqueline Hyde. I
Speaker 2:See. He played both.
Speaker 1:Yes. Okay. And when I say it was pre-code, it was just barely, it was made only one year before the ratings cracked down. Ha. Got'em. Well, it's filled with very, very explicit content for the time. And it was re-released five years later with eight minutes of the film removed to meet the new standards.
Speaker 2:Interesting. Maybe we should watch this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we should have watched it for this for
Speaker 2:Sure. Absolutely. I feel like we did not do our due diligence.
Speaker 1:Maybe we can watch it and talk about it on the next, on the stories episode.
Speaker 2:I guess we didn't scrub through the official one. We we scrubbed through some of the old, because there's multiple very,
Speaker 1:There's so many. That's the thing is there's just so many of them. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, you know what? The official universal one wasn't available on streaming.
Speaker 1:Oh. That's
Speaker 2:Why. And based, uh, at least on the streaming services that we have access to
Speaker 1:Almost all of them.
Speaker 2:Which, which is yes to, to our financial burden. And based off scrubbing through a lot of the other old ones, it didn't seem worth renting. But I I'm rethinking that decision now. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, we'll watch it for the stories episode. We'll come back. Cool. The film had one of the biggest budgets of any horror film at the time
Speaker 2:Coming in hundred dollars
Speaker 1:Over 500,000. Whoa. And it was a hit with audiences grossing over 1.3 million at the time in 1931.
Speaker 2:That, that was the box office. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. That's like a few trillion in today's money.
Speaker 1:That's right. There's also an earlier version of the film from 1920, making it a silent movie. Um, this film was actually released by a Paramount, and you can watch the entire film on Wikipedia. If you go to the Wikipedia page for Clin height, the entire film is embedded there.
Speaker 2:You just play it on the Yes.
Speaker 1:Wow. You would just play it right in this Wikipedia player.
Speaker 2:God bless you, Wikipedia,<laugh>.
Speaker 1:It's a, i people give me for using Wikipedia all the time, but it really truly is Who Gives gives you. A lot of listeners now
Speaker 2:Name one, call'em out.
Speaker 1:No. And again, surprisingly, just because it's a silent film from 1920, it comes in at number two with the highest ranked Jacqueline Hyde films of All Time, which a lot of them were made after the year 2000. Okay. So it's just a sense of the Jacqueline Hyde landscape is a little bleak.
Speaker 2:Okay. Is League of Extraordinary gentlemen on that list? No. Okay. Well, that's the problem. They're clearly not including the best movies.
Speaker 1:There you go. Uh, so in Third Place is a musical version. So I'm gonna set this up. There is, this is really a play, right? There was a musical play version of Jacqueline Hyde made. I actually had a few friends who are in kind of the musical theater space. Tell me like that it has some hits. Like, it's kind of like this can't be classic. Guess who the Star is? The singer and the star.
Speaker 2:Anthony Bourdain.
Speaker 1:David Hasselhoff.
Speaker 2:Really?
Speaker 1:Yes. Wow. And my friend Alex is like, Hey, there's some bangers in there. Like, there's some really fun songs.
Speaker 2:I'm a doctor. He's a bad guy.
Speaker 1:They, they, Yeah. They hired you. That's, that's hire, Hire
Speaker 2:You to write It. That's the single, the, the Hit single. So
Speaker 1:If anyone's looking for a very campy, fun version, like a good, you know, Popcorn Night with Your Friends.
Speaker 2:What's, what, what is that version called?
Speaker 1:It's called like, Jacqueline Hide the Musical. Okay. Because it's, they films the play and what, So it's like a filmed play.
Speaker 2:And what year is it? Because you're gonna have to That's, I it's impossible to sort through these cuz they're all named the same fricking thing.
Speaker 1:It's from 2001. There's also a film that I actually had watched growing up because my, we had a copy of it, I think on DVD or VHS Mary Riley from 1996,
Speaker 2:Which we did watch.
Speaker 1:We did Watch Stars Are Beloved Julia Roberts and John Malkovich. It's based on a novel by the same name from 1990 written by Valerie Martin. And it's a retelling of Jacqueline Hyde through the eyes of Mary who's a maid in the JLL household.
Speaker 2:Quick question,
Speaker 1:Quick answer.
Speaker 2:Is John Malkovich canceled?
Speaker 1:I don't think so. I
Speaker 2:Great cuz I love him. Oh, I just confuse him with Kevin Spacey.
Speaker 1:Kevin Spacey is indeed canceled.
Speaker 2:He is indeed canceled. Yeah. Uh, so I I really love John Malkovich.
Speaker 1:I've never seen being John Malkovich.
Speaker 2:It's such a fun movie. Is
Speaker 1:It a horror movie?
Speaker 2:Not at
Speaker 1:All. Oh, I was like, maybe we can watch it for horror movie
Speaker 2:Club. No, we can just watch it for fun. Oh, okay. Um, it's, I, I just, I love his stuff and also my father is obsessed with Julia Roberts. Oh sure. She was a staple staple in our household.
Speaker 1:I think all fathers are
Speaker 2:Not all fathers. Some fathers like other fathers
Speaker 1:<laugh>. Sure. Yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 2:I didn't even know this movie existed. So the fact that there is a Julia Roberts movie that I don't think he even knows about is gonna really make his day.
Speaker 1:You can give him the, the, the DVD as a gift. Let's
Speaker 2:Just keep the vhs we'll keep it simple.
Speaker 1:<laugh>, unlike the universal horror version of the story, this film was a box office flop. Despite its big name talent, it only made back 12 million of the 47 million budget.
Speaker 2:I mean, it looked so expensive.<laugh>.
Speaker 1:It did. Yes. I thought it looked like a masterpiece theater film.
Speaker 2:I disagree. I think, I mean, first off they had to spend 39 million on Julie Roberts, uh, 40 bucks to get John Mavi<laugh>. Um, and then the rest was the incredible set design that
Speaker 1:Well we, you and I went back about whether they were on like in a studio or on a location.
Speaker 2:I think, and we could probably solve this with I n db, but we're not going to, we're just gonna wildly speculate. I think it was all built sets.
Speaker 1:Well then yeah, that's gonna cost a lot of money.
Speaker 2:Simp for a couple reasons. One, there's some sets, some were a hundred percent sets, like the, the, uh, operation, the operating theater, What's it called? Is that the
Speaker 1:Yeah. The operating theater.
Speaker 2:Yep. Um, but also even when we're outside in the world, we never see a wide shot.
Speaker 1:Well, the outside I definitely think like the sidewalk and like the front stoop, all that was definitely like a set. But to me I'm like, why don't you just get a really cool, like, for all these interiors, like, like a really cool British mansion house or something, you know,
Speaker 2:I mean, which they might have, but also, you know, they got, they got John Malkovich money
Speaker 1:Right. That 40, which
Speaker 2:Means there's a lot left over in the budget to build sex<laugh>. Um, also one more thing about this movie, and I think this is why it might not have done well, at least this was the, the big glaring issue with this movie for me. Sure. So when Jack turns into hide, he becomes John Malkovich with a wig and everyone's like, Oh my God, who are you? It's like, you're the the same guy, dude. Uh, there's there's really no mistaking this, which I just found so silly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it def that part is definitely silly.
Speaker 2:Like he is such a distinctive looking person. It's not even like they changed his facial hair, his other str nothing. They put him in a wig and that he was suddenly a different person. And his acting is great. So everyone has like UK accents, right?
Speaker 1:Well I think, I mean I'm no expert in accents, but I think maybe Mary Riley was supposed to be Irish.
Speaker 2:Uh, yeah, she seemed very, she was doing a bit of an Irish accent.
Speaker 1:Like she was, uh, immigrant.
Speaker 2:Right. But then you had but everyone else doing a hundred percent American.
Speaker 1:Yeah,
Speaker 2:No, not even attempt to do an accent. And I'm sure they tried it and they're like, Mm, no, it's not working. And instead of casting someone that actually do the role, well they're just like, you know what?
Speaker 1:Just make him American. Just do
Speaker 2:Your own voice. That's makes perfect sense.
Speaker 1:I mean, Julie Roberts, God bless her, like we love her, but her accent was a little hit and miss sometimes.
Speaker 2:Yeah. She does a better Erin Brockovich.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Oh, she's, she's ama like, I'm not here to talk about anybody. It was really just the choices of the production, you know? No,
Speaker 2:It was a fun movie. I really, I really enjoyed watching it. Uh, but I can a hundred percent understand why it would flop at the box office
Speaker 1:Going back in time a bit. There's a TV movie from 1968 that Alan made us watch. For some reason we had all of these really fun Jacqueline Hyde options and he said, no, this TV movie from 1968, we immediately, I think after the opening credits ended, we turned it off. That's how bad it was. Oh, oh,
Speaker 2:Oh. That's where I got my notions about, uh, JK creating the formula to remove inhibitions. You
Speaker 1:Got any notions? We watched it for 30 seconds.
Speaker 2:No, that's not true. You left and I kept watching<laugh>. Uh, and that's like, cuz you have, I don't even know who was who because no one introduced themselves. They'll just call each other Mr.<laugh>. Uh, so I assume one of them was j and he was defending his position about how if if, uh, the medical field got rid of moral constraints, how think of the wonders we could do that was like right in the opening scene.
Speaker 1:Well, that stars Jack P And that's all I'm gonna say about that. I don't think we're recommending that as, as a Jacqueline Hyde film to watch or series to
Speaker 2:Watch. It's an excellent thing to put on as background at a party.
Speaker 1:<laugh>. There you go. Cause
Speaker 2:It's got it's nice four three aspect ratio.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's like a, a hip history thing to
Speaker 2:Do. They filmed it on tape. Yeah. They look, it looks like they mastered on the VHS<laugh>. Uh, it's, it's truly, And the, the frame rate looks like a soap opera.
Speaker 1:There's a film from 1971 called Dr. Jeckle and Sister Hde that I really wanted to watch, but I was vetoed to watch the TV movie. Sorry. Here is the Im db tagline. A Victorian scientist tests a serum that transforms him into sensuous murders.
Speaker 2:Is is, Oh, am I? Yeah.
Speaker 1:There's also a film called Edge of Sanity from 1989. Im db tagline when Henry J's experiments with cocaine have gotten out of control<laugh>, he transforms into a hideous Jack Hde as Hyde. He searches the London streets at night for his prey and whorehouses and opium dens. What the?
Speaker 2:Why
Speaker 1:Why am I this one Allen, this one stars Anthony Perkins.
Speaker 2:Why are didn't watch it
Speaker 1:Because you wanted to watch the TV move.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. You
Speaker 1:Ruined it. I'm sorry you didn't ruin
Speaker 2:It. I know. And then we had to watch really give story general again cuz it's so good.
Speaker 1:<laugh>. There is also a film from 2007 called JK quoting from imdb London 2007. Tom Jackman is the only living descendant of Dr. Jackle and Mr. Hyde. He has made a deal with his dark side, a body share. What Mr. Hyde doesn't know is that Tom has a family, there's a wife and two children that he'll do anything to protect from his dark side with all the resources of modern technology and the best surveillance hardware. He's determined to keep his dark side in line. He's done a deal with his own devil. And then just to fire Ra rattle through some here, Jacqueline Hyde from 1990, another TV movie. Of course, Abbott and Costello meet Dr. J and Mr. Hyde from 1953. And finally, the one thing we did watch for this episode, the Scooby Do episode of Chuckle. And
Speaker 2:I, uh, not entirely, we watched, We Acci we thought we were watching the original.
Speaker 1:We that up too. We
Speaker 2:Did, We, we watch It was kind of a callback to the original series. There's a whole J one Hyde episode and in this one it's in one of the new Scooby-Doo series and they go onto a movie lot, uh, because they're remaking the movie that they made in the original series. So it's like a callback to the original Scooby Do episode. Yeah. It also wasn't very good<laugh>, but the original Scooby Do series is solid gold. So we should really,
Speaker 1:Right. I only really like watch the original Scooby do and then Scooby do and the Witches ghost. Of course.
Speaker 2:Of course,
Speaker 1:Of course. All right. So those are like some films that we're highlighting, again, not holistic, but films that we're highlighting with the namesake Jacqueline Hyde. So now we're gonna talk about films that follow the pattern of Jacqueline Hyde.
Speaker 2:Okay, here we go.
Speaker 1:If you haven't seen Split from 2016, it's an M Night Shalon film starting James MacAvoy and a Do You Like It? Love
Speaker 2:It. And that character carries over to the follow up in the trilogy Yeah. Of uh, Glass, I believe.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Or Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Cause the first one Unbreakable then comes split then. Yeah,
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So it's an extreme multiple personality story. Three girls are kidnapped by a single man who's been diagnosed with 23 different distinct personalities. They must try to escape before the apparent emergence of a frightful new 24th personality. Yeah. I, I like Split. I like the series. I like all three. They're,
Speaker 2:They're super fun. I always forget that this is an Mny Shawan movie because it's the, they're, I mean Split is cuz it's a, a bits more thriller esque. Yeah. But like Unbreakable, you don't get that vibe very much at all.
Speaker 1:Oh really? I feel like I associate Unbreakable the most out of the three cuz it was so much earlier. So it felt like, like I remember it so clearly being like, Oh, it's M Night, you know? Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think Unbreakable came out during a time when a lot of other superhero movies were starting to come out. It was before like Ironman. Right. You know, that's like the definitive turning point that created the Marvel Cinematic universe. So this was during a time of like the weird Fantastic four movie or the First Hulk, you know, and this was supposed to be like, ah, another superhero movie, but this doesn't feel like a superhero movie at all. I love this movie. It's so fun. It's like a really awesome character piece of like, what would it be like if someone developed superpowers in the real world? And then You
Speaker 1:Mean Unbreakable?
Speaker 2:Yes. And then that carries over into split of, well, what if there was a villain in the real world? You know, what if there was someone who has powers who is also evil? It's just a cool premise. And like that premise has been, uh, explored in many other, in many other stories. But for me, this was a, this is a special one.
Speaker 1:I guess you're right too. And Bec I kind of forgot about the like, elevated elements of those characters. And I think that kind of ties it in really nicely to Jacqueline Hyde because we were talking before about like, Oh, it's Science Fictiony. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, but so are Unbreakable and Split. Really? Yeah. You know, they're not like Hu a human who has multiple personality disorder. It's this like extension of that into the realm of like, he can climb the walls.
Speaker 2:Well yeah, it, I mean, sorry, spoilers for Split. Yeah. But,
Speaker 1:Um, that's, that's fine. You guys still watch
Speaker 2:It? It is. For the vast majority of the movie, it's just a guy Yeah. With multiple personalities. And then you think like, Oh wow, what's this last one gonna be? And the last one he actually has superpowers. Yeah. It's like this, this, this foreboding thing actually warrants that foreshadowing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. Next, Alan, we have a little character I'll say cuz it spans many movies and, and mediums a character called The Hulk.
Speaker 2:I mean, I just touched on it saying
Speaker 1:Take
Speaker 2:It Away, talking about the, you know, talking about the First Hulk movie, which was not the first Hulk movie. Actually, I don't know, was it the first Hulk movie? I know there was like the seventies TV show with Lou Rno.
Speaker 1:Well, the comic books precede any TV or movie. Of
Speaker 2:Course. The, uh, the Hulk I think came in the sixties. I'm not quite sure. My classic Hulk is a bit rusty. Oh boy. However, yeah. For anyone unfamiliar, you have a very normal doctor, Dr. Bruce Spanner, but who turns into this hulking monstrosity who's
Speaker 1:Green?
Speaker 2:He is green, Yes. As soon as we were decided to do this episode. Yeah, I know. I immediately thought of League of Extraordinary Gentleman and their Hulk character is Hyde. Like he's the tank of the team. Yeah. And he's this like very clever little Doctor<laugh>, um, who then would take a formula to lose his capacity for science and instead gain it in bra. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> like that's his role. He can, he can switch roles, if you will, on the team. And just like the Hulk, his monstrous persona cannot be trusted, cannot be relied upon until they finally find the harmony between the two personas where there's some kind of trust develops. And I, you know, Hulk has always been a very, one of my favorite superheroes holds a very strong place in my heart. And there are so many stories about Bruce Banner on the run, trying his absolute best to keep what he, what he views as his evil persona under wraps right away from society can't hurt anybody and he'll do anything he possibly can to make that happen. It's very much like Jackline Hyde.
Speaker 1:Final thing I'm gonna talk about here. In 1963, a non horror film was released. And if you look at the ranked Jacqueline Hyde films, in Order of Popularity on imdb, this one actually comes up as number one. I'm talking about the original Nutty Professor from 1963. Yeah. Okay. This version was written directed in Stars Jerry Lewis, along with Stella Stevens in Delmore.
Speaker 2:Why are you limiting yourselves to just the original?
Speaker 1:I'm not, and I, I had, I have not seen it, but it's what, when you look up the best Jacqueline Hyde movies of all time, this is the number one version. Not like the Eddie Murphy version, like this version of the film.
Speaker 2:I have not seen the original, but the Eddie Murphy version is remarkable
Speaker 1:Gold. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Love Eddie Murphy. Okay. So I'm basing all of these comments on the Eddie Murphy version. But yeah, you have a scientist who then can take a formula and become a different person with a completely different persona, different outlook on life. And there's just this balancing act between the two people trying to, two people trying to live one life.
Speaker 1:Right. It's very, very, very similar to Jacqueline Hyde,
Speaker 2:Except that Eddie Murphy doesn't stomp on children that we know of.
Speaker 1:I think that, like everything that we've mentioned with the exception of Split is really, really like verbatim, almost Jacqueline Hyde, like Hulk Day professor, you know, they really follow the format.
Speaker 2:I'd say Hulk is a bit more of a stretch, but it's in the right vein.
Speaker 1:But it's a doctor, you know, like there's elements there. He's
Speaker 2:A scientist. He's, you know,
Speaker 1:So is al
Speaker 2:That's true. He's more medical. But actually, I mean, Bruce Banner specializes in, uh, gamma radiation.
Speaker 1:There you go.
Speaker 2:Which in turn has quite a bit to do with medical physiology.
Speaker 1:Yeah,
Speaker 2:That's what I have to say about that.
Speaker 1:Jacqueline hides lasting success speaks to human nature at its core.
Speaker 2:Did you write that?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:It's cool. Say it again.
Speaker 1:Jacqueline hides lasting success speaks to human nature at its core.
Speaker 2:You're such a good writer,
Speaker 1:<laugh>. Thank you. The complexity of what it means to be good or bad, and I have a lot to say about this, right? Like, I don't think people are born evil. I think there's like a lot of nurture that goes in. I also think there's mental health conditions and all kinds of things like that, but I don't think people are inherently evil.
Speaker 2:Some people are,
Speaker 1:But I, it's literally the opposite of what I just said,<laugh>. But I do think that there are like a range of human emotions and reactions and trauma and mental health issues and all these things that go into quote unquote creating this spectrum of good and bad. That being said, I think humans can be many things, right? Like I think you can be both a really great person and have, you know, another side to you and that doesn't necessarily mean that you're good or bad, you know, I, it's just whatever. I think that kind of doing the research here calls upon some of these like themes of how we think about this, especially within ourselves. And I think we are always our harshest critics as we all know. Sure. It just kind of is like this reminder that people can be multiple things, you know? And like I, this is really like on a tangent now, but like, it can be really hard if you're dealing with somebody who's difficult and I'm not talking about a murderer, right? That aside, if you're dealing with somebody who's difficult, and I think the reminder always is that something has happened to make, to make that behavior come out of them. Sure. If they're being really harsh with you or whatever, it's cuz they're going through something or they're feeling something or they've experienced something that has made them weary of this thing. So I think it's just like a good reminder for us all that like to be gentle with each other and to remember that you don't always know what's going on with people, um, and what's causing them to be quote unquote bad or mean or whatever, because it's really usually something that's sad and that I wish they didn't have to deal with. And it's manifesting in a way that's annoying and they should take responsibility for that. But at the end of the day, you know, be kind to each other.
Speaker 2:That's right. If you have like a dictator performing genocide, you don't know what their home life is like to
Speaker 1:Make like a poignant like point about, I'm talking about like your day to day interactions with people, not, you're not running into a dictator on the street.
Speaker 2:Usually not. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I I wholeheartedly believe that people like dictators or you know, those kinds of people who again, I think became that way because of their environments, but that those people should not have any power.
Speaker 2:I didn't realize you were pro dictator.
Speaker 1:I'm not, I'm not saying that a pro dictator at all.<laugh>. I'm saying like, lock'em up, throw'em away. But I'm not saying if you look for example, I'm getting flustered. Yeah, go ahead. If you look at serial killers, Uhhuh, I'm not pro serial killer. I'm anti serial killer. If you look at serial killers and quote unquote psychopaths, so, so often they suffer traumatic brain injuries as kids so often. Mm.
Speaker 2:Interesting.
Speaker 1:I don't know what the exact rate is, but it's very high. Um, they also usually suffer extreme abuse and neglect, extreme trauma. There's a lot that goes into getting someone to that point. Sure. And again, I'm not a doctor, so take other grain of salt, but that's, that's my soap box of the day
Speaker 2:Is a, is a good box to end on.
Speaker 1:I'm actually going to leave us with a quote here from Stevenson's original, The strange case of Dr. Jackle and Mr. Hyde quote, With every day and from both sides of my intelligence, the moral and the intellectual, I thus drew steadily near to the truth by whose partial discovery I have been doomed to such a dreadful shipwreck that man is not truly one, but truly two. And so the point that he is making here is that mankind in general is not good or bad that mankind in general is both
Speaker 2:Right. They're gray
Speaker 1:And Yeah. That every individual, not just Jacqueline hide. Mm-hmm<affirmative> is both that we all are
Speaker 2:Right and it's healthy to be such. Correct.
Speaker 1:The end
Speaker 2:<laugh>. Okay. Bye.
Speaker 1:Well hang on here. So before we leave you, just a reminder, we have some very, very, very exciting Jacqueline Hyde theme stories. In addition to John Cook's excerpt of the original text next week, we also have another incredible story that of over the moon to share. And of course, don't forget about our merch sale code. Spooky 25, 20 5% off@lunaticproject.com. Click on merch. I hope that this episode helps us kick off October in a funky, spooky way. I think it's the, the subject matter is not quite as dark maybe as we were expecting it to be, but I think we left you with some interesting, you know, films to explore Dr. Jacqueline's, Sister Hyde, for example.
Speaker 2:Also there's, uh, Henrietta and Eleanor, I think is the name
Speaker 1:Right? The like Feminine spin. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That, that I that was a fun one. I liked that a lot.
Speaker 1:It's a book.
Speaker 2:Uh, yes. Uh, I, that was a book I picked up a while ago was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:There you go. Yeah. Again, there's like endless, endless things to talk about here. We're going to also be posting, um, some in more in depth reviews of some of these things on lunatic project.com. If you're not aware, we post tons of articles every week about kind of things that follow the themes that we're covering on the podcast, as well as just other things that, that we've, we run into. Um, so check out lunatic project.com for all of our latest articles. There'll definitely be some Jacqueline Hyde content coming out for the next few weeks there. And happy October everyone, We're gonna leave you here. Stay safe. I hope you say extra spooky now that we're in the holy month and we'll talk to you very soon. Bye bye.