Lunatics Radio Hour
Episode 64 - The History of Medusa
CW: Themes of sexual assault.
Abby & Alan explore the history of Medusa. Originating in ancient mythology, she's endured and has been transformed into a modern symbol.
Find out more about RAINN here.
Lunatics merch, available here!
---
Consider helping Black Trans folks by donating to the Marsha P Johnson Institute.
Subscribe to Anti-Racism Daily - a daily email newsletter from Nicole Cardoza.
Also, consider donating to The Loveland Foundation, a fund that provides therapy for Black women.
---
Check out Abby's book Horror Stories. Available in eBook and paperback.
Music by Michaela Papa, Alan Kudan & Jordan Moser. Poster Art by Pilar Keprta @pilar.kep.
Lunatics Magazine is available here. Subscribe to our newsletter! Follow us on Instagram @thelunaticsproject and on YouTube - Films About Lunatics.
Hear travel stories from everyday people who learned how to travel for (nearly) free
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
CW: Themes of sexual assault.
Abby & Alan explore the history of Medusa. Originating in ancient mythology, she's endured and has been transformed into a modern symbol.
Find out more about RAINN here.
Lunatics merch, available here!
---
Consider helping Black Trans folks by donating to the Marsha P Johnson Institute.
Subscribe to Anti-Racism Daily - a daily email newsletter from Nicole Cardoza.
Also, consider donating to The Loveland Foundation, a fund that provides therapy for Black women.
---
Check out Abby's book Horror Stories. Available in eBook and paperback.
Music by Michaela Papa, Alan Kudan & Jordan Moser. Poster Art by Pilar Keprta @pilar.kep.
Lunatics Magazine is available here. Subscribe to our newsletter! Follow us on Instagram @thelunaticsproject and on YouTube - Films About Lunatics.
Hear travel stories from everyday people who learned how to travel for (nearly) free
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
[inaudible]
Speaker 2:And welcome back to the lunatics radio hour podcast. I'm Abby Brinker. I'm here with Alan Kodak. Hello. And today we're talking about what your health just caught me off guard. And today we're talking about Medusa. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I'm telling the people, the listeners, before we get into Medusa, I have a few little exciting updates. What I want to, you want to get? Yeah. I want to get into, I have some things to say. Okay, well I know that's good. That's great. The first thing is, I just want to say a big shout out to my we're just going to ignore that and just steamroll past. Yes. Okay. We have an agenda here, right? Okay. The first thing is I just want to give a big shout out to my friend, Olivia, she runs an Etsy shop called Oliver, Inc. And it's full of these really cute postcards and greeting cards and stickers. And in quarantine, I've really taken up, sending friends, postcards, shout out to Michael crusa for starting that trend from Jollyville, but it's just a really lovely shop. And her designs are bright and colorful and bring a lot of joy to my day. So I just wanted to give a little shout out to her beautiful designs and her shop, which is all of ink studios on Etsy, all of her olives, olive, olive, olive juice, all of juice, Inc. Studios minus the juice. Yeah. Um, the second thing is just that I'm reading this book right now by Samantha Downing called my lovely wife. And I'm like 25% through it. Thanks to Kindle for telling me where I'm at, but it is so good. It's about like a husband and wife serial killer team. I guess that this sounds like a movie. Um, what did we watch? That was about a serial killer. It was a, uh, sorry. It was a story that jumped between a bunch of different narratives and there was a serial killer husband and wife. Oh, it was a Netflix. It was that Netflix movie. That movie on Netflix with the guy from Twilight. Robert Pattinson was in it. Hang on, let me look it up. It's called the devil all the time. Yes. We watched that for horror movie club. No, he just watched it. It was good. Yeah. Robert Pattinson plays like a evil preacher kind of a guy. I thought you had to watch it for your friends movie club. No, I don't think so. Well, you should. It's good. Yeah. It's very good. It's good. Anyway, but yes, that has a husband and wife serial killer team. It does. I forgot about that. Yeah. Yeah. That was a good movie. And it's a good book. So just some dark recommendations for you to start your day. And I think the
Speaker 3:Interesting takeaway from their dynamic in the film is they are both not equally as sadistic and evil. Right.
Speaker 2:I think that's actually the key takeaway of the book too.
Speaker 3:Hmm. I mean, yeah. I feel like that's what makes it interesting if they're both just villains, then they're both
Speaker 2:Right. I mean the role of villains, but there there's tension between them because they're one is more evil than the other. Right. Which is interesting,
Speaker 3:Like cut off the arms and he's like, no, cut off the legs.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's how I, and just one other quick, housekeeping thing, thank you all so much. Everyone who has reached out about wanting to help write short stories for us, if you are also interested in getting on our writers mailing list, you can email me@filmsaboutlunaticsatgmail.com or DM me on Instagram at the lunatics project. So thank you guys so much, so far, I'm really excited by the response.
Speaker 3:So, um, in, in exciting news, there have been so many submissions that we've had to build a whole new interface to accept them. Um, and I know we're just teasing at this point cause it's not completed, but there's in the works an all new website specifically built to accept these submit.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's been like the bane of my existence really since Luna takes us started, there are so many different parts.
Speaker 3:I thought I was the bane of your existence.
Speaker 2:There are so many different parts of this project. There's the magazine and the podcast and the films. And so, so we're working to create a website. That's got a little more information and a little more functional in terms of accepting submissions and organizing updates and things like that. So yes, still in the works, but we're hoping to have it out really soon. And I think it's just going to be really helpful to keep everything organized mostly for me, but hopefully it will also make it easier for all of you to submit as well. Totally. And on that note, just a quick reminder that we have a magazine and the spring issue is coming out soon. The deadline for any submissions closes at the end of February. So if you have photography, short stories, illustrations, anything that could be printed in a magazine, get in touch with us. The theme is duality and opposites for the spring issue. And of course, shout out to personal space press who is our collaborative partner on the magazine time to talk about Medusa finally.
Speaker 3:Okay. So Medusa a topic that is very near and dear to the heart, or should I say the arm?
Speaker 2:Okay. Yes. I do have a Medusa tattoo on my arm, rather large Medusa tattoo. I do have a rather large Medusa tattoo on my arm and it's very cool. I didn't think it was to be fair. I didn't go into the tattoo appointment, expecting it to be as big as we ended up deciding that it will be. And I'm glad that I did because it's cool. No, you walked in there. It was a girl was woman. You said to the artist. Yes.
Speaker 3:Walk into the club and I want everyone's head to turn and say, Oh, is that Perseus? Yeah. Cause you know, carrying the head of media.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But it's actually on a penis shield. So nice try swinging. I miss. Okay.
Speaker 3:Are you really going to try to out Greek mythology?
Speaker 2:All right. Let's let's just get into it before we do, though. I just want to say, if you don't know already the Medusa mythology has a lot of themes of sexual assault and of outdated gender norms and you know, Greek mythology is in wonderful for being a modern and progressive space. So there's going to be a lot of talk of, of sexual assault today on this episode and some outdated Freudian theories around gender and feminism and things like that. So if any of that might be triggering to you, we just wanted to give you a little content warning at the top. All right. Sources today for me, I know Alan has a lot of his own sources, but I have no official sources. Wikipedia of course my sources from the streets, Greek mythology.com, Medusa the real story of the snake hair to Gorgon and the Mary sue.com a article by princess weeks from ancient Greece to modern day feminism Medusa is an enduring and often misrepresented figure Medusa, Ceno and Jarrell were sisters that were also Marine Gorgons of Greek mythology. They were the children of four seas and his sister Quito. So yes, we're talking about an incestual family.
Speaker 3:Interesting. So they were the word Gorgons yes, huh.
Speaker 2:Well, no you tell me what, tell me first of all, should we define what a Gorkin is? So,
Speaker 3:I mean, a Gorgon is defined by Medusa it's it's a, uh, a chicken or the egg situation. Yeah, I guess it's it. I guess it's, it's a little convoluted. I'm sure someone has an answer out there. I don't a Gorgon now is a, uh, Naga like being, so you'd have a, the upper, the torso of a human and the lower body of a snake. Got it. And then you'd have the same Medusa like qualities of, uh, you know, snakes for hair, petrifying, gaze, all those things.
Speaker 2:They're also described often as having wings, Whoa, these three women, the sisters
Speaker 3:That's interesting, which actually makes sense, given that the, the children that she bears. Right. However, but it's totally true because they're deaf, she's always defined as one of the Gorgons that becomes this hideous creature. Right. So I don't know if there's, I can't think of a physical description of a Gorgon before she becomes the Medusa. Everyone knows and loves right
Speaker 2:Though. She came from a family of monstrous Gorgons mortal Medusa started off as a, unlike her sisters who are viewed less favorably. And again, I'm going to pause here just to say, there's a lot of outdated talk in all of this about defining beauty and women and you know, and it's all kind of like and annoying and whatever, but I'm just using words that are used in the source texts here. The most modern depictions show Gorgons as snake hared monsters, early artists recognize the terrifying beauty of these creatures in an ode from 490 BC Pindar describes Medusa as fair cheeked.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It it's always up to the artist's rendition of course. Sure. However, I've always pictured Medusa as someone that was absolutely gorgeous. Like her face, it's just, she was surrounded by these wreath of snakes and she had magic eyes basically that when you locked gaze, that's what petrified you into stone.
Speaker 2:Well, it's interesting because yeah, you're right. It's totally, even within modern culture, there's a huge array of Medusa. Right. And what she represents and we're going to get into the modern take on her. But like my tattoo, for example, she has a very, again in quotes traditionally, uh, you know, beautiful, pretty face. She's a Hollywood glam, right. She's very, uh, like, um, Venus in the half shell kind of a Renaissance painted face and a half show venous power. And I also have a piece of art that my friends, Emily and Eileen gave me of Medusa. And in that she's depicted as a much more hardened, ferocious type of monster. So there's yeah. There's so many different ways to interpret her.
Speaker 3:One key thing to note is that the depiction of Medusa is directly influenced by her role in this story. Is she just the monster that the hero is trying to kill? If so she's probably going to be pretty ugly. Right. Um, or she'd, you know, be like the siren that at first looks so beautiful from afar, but then you get close and then she's hideous. But if she is more of the victim or even better, the antihero that's when things get far more convoluted in far more interesting. And honestly, that's just how you get, you know, a better character out of it overall. But, um, that's also when you start getting more of the nuanced beauty details in something that is traditionally just a hideous monster.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I mean, we're going to get, we're going to talk about this soon, but there's a lot of complexity as well because essentially Medusa is a survivor of this horrifying sexual assault. And so for, to be depicted as a monster at all, is problematic in its own way. So one of the most famous and early depictions of the Medusa myth comes from ombuds metamorphosis. So I'm going to quote from that for a minute, just to give everybody a little flavor here. Oh boy, little flavor, text buckle up
Speaker 3:Bobbins. What a, what a rush.
Speaker 2:She was very lovely once the hope of many and envious suitor and of all of her beauties her hair most beautiful. At least I heard. So from one who claimed he had seen her one day Neptune found her and raped her in my nervous temple. And the goddess turned away and hit her eyes behind the shield and punishing the outrage as it deserved. She changed her hair to serpents. And even now to frighten evildoers, she carries on her breastplate metal Vipers to serve as awful warning of her vengeance. So when we're talking about the Roman poet ombuds metaphor offices, which I just read from Medusa was depicted as wonderful until she met Poseidon or Neptune, right. Poseidon and Neptune being the Greek and Roman versions of the same. God Allah describes her beauty. Obviously he said, you know of her hair of all of her beauties, her hair was the most beautiful, however, after having sex with the God of the sea and Athena's temple by force Athena punished Medusa by turning her into a monster. So this is, we should really pause here to talk about this thing for a minute. The Medusa myth boils down to very, very quick scene, right? Medusa is forced by Neptune slash Poseidon to he's raped her in Minerva slash Athena's temple. Again, those are the Greek and Roman versions of the same person. And then Medusa is essentially beheaded for this crime. And, and then they use her head to turn people into stone as like, uh, a weapon. So it's a very tragic upsetting story about someone who is raped and then be headed because she's, she is the one who was blamed for what happened to her.
Speaker 3:Well, that's the fun thing about Greek myth. The traditional telling is usually just the way that one guy wrote it down hundreds of years ago,
Speaker 2:Right? Yeah. Greek mythology is famous for evolving and changing as people keep it's like creepy pasta, but from thousands of years ago. Right.
Speaker 3:So, and it's always up to re-interpretation there's a couple fun theories about this myth. Fun. Fun. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I think this is fun. There's nothing fun about rape. No. Two ways about that. The gods, however, uh, were notorious for seeing mortal beauty and taking it because they want it right. They are archetypes of the emotions of humanity, right? Yeah.
Speaker 2:And we should say, even though Medusa was a Gorgon, she was mortal. She was mortal. He, and they say
Speaker 3:She's Gorgon, but I want to say, that's like, she's from, this is me making this up. This is not real. It's like she was from the Island of Gorgon, you know, a perfectly normal person from a place. Maybe that's where they got one of the Gore.
Speaker 2:Well, no, there are Gorgons because of their snake, hair and and their wings. I don't think they had that yet. When did you think they got it when
Speaker 3:She was changed by Athena? Oh, as punishment. Yeah. So, well here, let me, I'll just, let me just tell you have Medusa, who is a priestess of Athena. She works in the temple. She is 150% devoted to Athena. Yeah. Right. So she made a full vow of chastity whole wholeheartedly. That's what, that, wasn't a sacrifice for her because she loved her goddess so much. Yeah. Then Poseidon seeing, wow, she's a Looker. Uh, and again, th the, the gods were just horny. Yeah. And he seduces her with a, a necklace of the most beautiful seashells. Okay. So he gives her this beautiful necklace of seashells. And so he's a, God, she's not interested, but he's a God. Right. You don't have a power dynamic. You don't refuse a gift from a God, unless you instantly want to be smoked. Right. So she takes the necklace and
Speaker 2:Because she's intimidated and being pressured and manipulated by him. Right.
Speaker 3:Because you have something of omnipotent power giving you a gift. Okay. Yeah. Take, take, take the seashells. He kind of takes as like a, okay, cool. She wants me now. And even though she protests, uh, he just takes her right then and there on the floor of Athena's temple. Right. He rapes her. Yes. After that, you know, she's obviously incredibly distraught, not just because she just went through a horrific sexual assault. Yes. But because she just broke her oath of chastity, which was her whole life's purpose was to serving Athena. Yep. Now this is where, uh, there's a couple of different theories that can start to diverge. Yep. Athena, despite being the goddess of wisdom, depending on who's writing her, it still falls into the trope of vengeful. Sure. And she saw one of her disciples get the most beautiful necklace of the sea. She wanted it and she got and she didn't like that Poseidon was going after, uh, one of her disciples and not fawning after her herself. So Athena being one of the Virgin goddesses, one of the, uh, one of the interpretations that she was just so offended that sex had take place had taken place in her temple. Well, there's three should say there's Virgin
Speaker 2:Goddesses, Artemis, Athena, and heck tape. Right.
Speaker 3:There's, there's more, those are the three of the, of the main Pantheon,
Speaker 2:The three heavy hitters. Um,
Speaker 3:Yeah. And so she was just so slighted by the fact that this happened, that she just took, she couldn't take out her anger on Poseidon, although she could. Yeah,
Speaker 2:I have, but it would have started. Right. Like it's a big political thing to go after another God. Yeah. But they do it all the time. Um, and I'm not defending her she's
Speaker 3:Yeah. There's, there's a million ways and they all with each other with CCS, serpent, venom, and. Um, but anyways, yeah, she was just so upset that this happened, that she turned Medusa into this horrible creature as a punishment for Medusa, but B, so that Poseidon would never desire her again. Right. You were saying, you were saying earlier how, you know, avid describes her as, you know, fair, fair cheeked and just like a beautiful woman, but has snakes for hair. Right. There are, you know, accounts of her just being absolutely hideous, but there's also a lot of depictions as we were discussing earlier of, she's actually very beautiful. She just happens to have snakes for hair.
Speaker 2:There's also depictions, like I think in ombuds, metamorphosis, she has normal hair and she's just a beauty. And then, you know, she gets hurt.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah. Well, there's also the mythos of that. She can kind of turn she's like she always has, after she gets turned by Athena, she can still kind of turn it on and off. She can be this beautiful woman, but after she is assaulted by Poseidon, then Athena, instead of taking vengeance on her, takes pity on her and then weaponizes her. So now, while she still retains that beautiful face that she's so famous for, she now has these snakes for hair in this mythic ability to turn anyone else to stone that would ever assault her. Right. She now makes it so she can always defend herself going forward and also makes it so that this is enough to make it so that no one would ever be tempted enough to go after her again. Right. So obviously, you know, no one should have to be changed to not be the desire of someone else, you know, uh, they should be able to control themselves in the first place. But what we're talking about here is, you know, gods and goddesses who, you know, take what they please and just say, you to the world, the original predators, talk about it. You know, don't even get me started on the actions of zoos seriously. But you know, when you're dealing with omnipotent beings, drastic times call for drastic measures.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's interesting just sitting here talking about it with you. Like, it is interesting how horrible these gods are. And it's the fact that the Greek people are that these ancient people wrote about them as these horrible, awful thing. You know, people that like salted and pillage it's it's, but they were the ones who were in power. It's still, you know, look at Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein, like nothing has changed.
Speaker 3:That's what we're talking about. There was no, there's no accountability when you're omnipotent. Right?
Speaker 2:Exactly. Which is still the case today.
Speaker 3:And one of the things that makes Greek mythology so interesting. And so, um, digestible today is unlike some other pantheons specifically monotheistic religions. Sure. The gods are depicted. They're just a hundred percent normal people. Personality wise, they're just put in, they just are put inside bodies that are omnipotent and immortal. Right. And they, yeah. They can just do whatever they want. However they want with no consequences outside of if they punish each other. Right. But they have the whims and desires and the vices of normal.
Speaker 2:It's so interesting to hear you talk about Greek mythology, you know, so much about, and Norse mythology and all of these, these other types of mythologies, but
Speaker 3:Shout out to Neil Gaiman for making it fun and exciting and make you want to just learn more.
Speaker 2:After the fact we love Neil Neil Gaiman is our God. I want to return very briefly to the Roman poet ombuds metamorphosis, because there's always comes back to Auburn. It comes back to Alvin just cause w I want to talk about Perseus a little bit. Yup. And Ahmed's poem, which is the one I quoted earlier. Medusa was depicted as wonderful, right? She was this awesome, favorable being until she met Poseidon. Arava describes her beauty. However, after she was assaulted by the God of the sea and Athena's temple, Athena punished Medusa by turning her into a monster and anyone who gazed into her eyes would turn to stone, which is interesting, which is an interesting punishment, I guess. But I guess she can't be friends with anybody, but Medusa was beheaded by the Greek hero Perseus. And because Medusa was actually mortal for
Speaker 3:First off, spoiler alert. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, every episode is a spoiler alert. People should know because we do so is actually mortal. According to legend, Perseus was able to fight her by looking into the mirror shield that Athena provided for him. So he didn't look right at her. He used the shield to like over his shoulder kind of a thing. What does it have to do with her being mortal? Because I don't know. She, she, her power wasn't that powerful. Like I didn't, we didn't work.
Speaker 3:I just thought that was the rules. You just have to make eye contact reflections. Don't count. Right. Just like the basle
Speaker 2:Right. Yes. Right. As Perseus beheaded, her Pegasus and Christ soar a giant winged golden sword sprang from her body. And we all know Pegasus obviously as the unicorn. Okay. Or is Pegasus a unicorn or just a winged horse. It's just winged horse.
Speaker 3:So sorry. Okay. And there's a very th so this is actually a very interesting little tidbit. Yes. Medusa was a Virgin before she was assaulted by Poseidon. Yes. The children were, uh, that of Poseidon. Right. But here here's, here's the kicker. So the time between impregnation and when Perseus eventually kills her is many, many years
Speaker 2:Interesting. I mean, she has a whole horse and something else in her body.
Speaker 3:Well, here's the thing. He impregnated the, the, the human version of her. Okay. Then she got turned into, uh, into, into a Gorgon, lost her lower body to become a snake like creature, which means she lost her reproductive system. Sure. That meant the, her children had no way to escape her body.
Speaker 2:Oh my God. So she had a horse and a giant winked sword stuck in her body for years
Speaker 3:Stuck in her. So that's why when Perseus cuts off her head, they burst forth from her neck saying we're free.
Speaker 2:Oh my God. That's so funny.
Speaker 3:They didn't say anything. Cause they're a horse and a sword.
Speaker 2:But I mean, first of all, she birthed a horse and a sword, which just is so crazy. Okay. So after her head was removed from her body and these offspring,
Speaker 3:Yeah. They don't hold it out. They don't really address this in the Disney version of Hercules. When you just see Pegasus flapping around having some fun, it's like, Hey, you had a traumatic childhood.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Seriously. Um, so yeah, so after her head is removed from her body, it still turns people to stone. It's still a weapon. So Perseus gives it to Athena slash Minerva to attach to her shield. And so that, you know, anytime Athena's on the battlefield, now she has this weapon of, of this shield that can turn people to stone. Yes. But not immediately will fell. A son.
Speaker 3:Percy has goes on so many quests and he just brings the old head in the sack wherever he goes. And he ju it's it's, it's his secret weapon. Um, and Greek mythology is just narrative tellings of whatever. I personally love some of the more modern ones.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I was going to ask, what, what do you recommend to people who, if they want to read more about this? I mean, it's,
Speaker 3:It's tough. There's not a lot about Medusa that isn't just like, she's the creature that gets, she's not, she's not just like creature of the week to get killed,
Speaker 2:But like, what is your Greek mythology to go to? For example, we read a song of Achilles recently, which has nothing to do with Medusa, but it is well mythology,
Speaker 3:That's it? I mean, Perseus has mentioned because Achilles is supposed to be the greatest hero since Perseus. Right? Well, he was, yeah, he was supposed to be, he was rising, but then he just up because he's a,
Speaker 2:But th but that's like, that was like a fun accessible, modern version of Greek myths. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So I mean the, the way that I, um, I mean, I've always been passionate about Greek mythology. I, I, growing up, I read more of the classical versions, right. Edith Hamilton's version, uh, which is probably the most famous that are, are Bulfinch and they're okay. But they're not like jazzy, you know,
Speaker 2:You read the Iliad and the Odyssey rather recently, didn't you?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. Neither of these, all of these take place so much after any of the time of Perseus and Medusa and everybody, my favorite is the books, mythos and heroes, both written actually by Stephen Fry.
Speaker 2:Ah, and Stephen Fry.
Speaker 3:Yep. And so this was, I think this was a direct response to Neil Gaiman's Norse mythology. Yeah. He just took all of these myths and retold them in his own words. Right. Which is just so much more fun. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's a way it's hard. It is hard to get through some of this really, really, it is outdated writing as a modern reader,
Speaker 3:Especially you keep bringing up often. And, uh, and yes, th the, the reason why everyone brings him up is because he's the one that wrote down most of it, but there's a bunch of, uh, speculation that avid didn't even write all of his own stuff that, well, as in like, there's a bunch of people claiming to be avid, or he had ghost writers or something, because that would explain why there's so many inconsistencies in his writing. Right. Such as one time, you know, someone is the tra is the tragic victim and then fast forward, uh, to the next chapter. And suddenly they're the hideous beast that everyone must kill. Right. You know, regardless we got, we got off topic. What was I saying before I had, I was trying to make up
Speaker 2:Perseus was bringing the hetero. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So, uh, if anyone wants just like a fun romp in Greek mythology, there's the, the movie. Well, I mean, uh, mortals is just so bad. It's like 300, but with actual, like Greek gods. Oh, that's fun. And then there's the not super great, but really great. If you are very on top of your Greek mythology references is the clash of the Titans and wrath of the Titans. Right. The remakes, the original is pretty lame. Right.
Speaker 2:We'll talk about it. Cause we have a whole section, I'm going to do some movies coming up here.
Speaker 3:Gotcha. But you get to see really cool things like the, the, the crackin, which is destroying what's the city, it's the city we're in drama that gets strung up on the rock in front of yeah. That's city. Yeah. That's city anyways. The, they, you know, fight the crack and they, you know, they're, they're trying to fight the crack with the whole, city's our model and it's not working. So perse, he's just like, yo check out this head and just show the head and the crack and takes one look. And he's like, Oh. And he dies. And as he turned into like a huge crack and statue
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's like the size of a mountain. I love that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's cool. It's awesome. That's I'm talking about, it's like, it's his little secret weapon.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. And he gets to ride around Pegasus the whole time. I mean, the, the thing though is Perseus is not blameless, right? Like Perseus murdered, uh, a survivor of sexual assault and he's becomes a hero.
Speaker 3:Well, hang on. Perseus had no idea. Perseus was just sent by Athena mind you to kill her. So that's, that's why it just gets all convoluted. Right. Uh, Thena says here, here in Perseus, take this golden shield or was it, was it a thing? Yeah, I think it was a Thena. I mean, in other retellings it's zoos, but yeah, she gives, she's the one that sends him on the quest to kill her own disciple. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's up. Yep. Very up. All right. We're going to move into even more up territory here. Here we go. Because I've kind of scared to talk about this, to be honest, but we would be remissed if we did not mention Medusa's head, which was a short essay written in 1940 by Sigmund Freud. Really? Yes. So this is going to get into very cringy, outdated gendered conversation. But here we go, Freud believed that to decapitate is to castrate Freud believed that Medusas to capitation has more to do with the castration complex than anything else. With the holes of the castration complex, the castration complex or castration anxiety, according to Freud is a fear of castration in the literal and metaphorical sense. So the idea that a young boy for example, is exposed to maybe his mother or whatever, a, a older female and her genitals and realizes that women do not have a penis. Freud's not true. Bizarre theory gets more bizarre. He believes that because Medusa doesn't have a penis she's overcompensating with her phallic snake hair,
Speaker 3:Or enormous single tentacle.
Speaker 2:And even if her head does turn this scared person to stone, he can then rest assured that he has a penis and at least it will be hard forever. Again, this is Freud's theory. This is not mine. These are not, my words
Speaker 3:Is a hundred percent you and clearly you're just making this up and say, Oh yeah, this is the thing.
Speaker 2:So Freud received criticism for these theories on two levels. I mean, I could name a thousand more, but on one hand, most people think Medusa's ability to freeze or turn people to stone has more to do with the feeling of being frozen or stuck when afraid like a deer in headlights sort of thing, and has nothing to do with penises. Additionally, people think that his theories are singularly from the male gaze and negate any other experiences. And I would add to that, that it totally has nothing at all to do with anything. It is totally like he tried to just connect some weird psychological theory that the world doesn't even need to this myth that already existed.
Speaker 3:But actually this does, I hate to admit it, but there, this does have a little bit of historical accuracy. Okay. Tell me, so in clash of the Titans, when Percy has holds up the head and freezes the mountain size cracking. Yeah. He, you know, he growls and grumbles, which translates directly to loose. My penis will be hard.
Speaker 4:Okay.
Speaker 2:This episode is a wild one. Okay. Anyway, we can move on from Freud. But when you Google Medusa, you get a lot of Freud. And I just figured we needed to address the elephant in the room, you know, all right. Medusa and modern feminism, here we
Speaker 3:Go. I think we started to touch on
Speaker 2:It. We shared it. Yeah. In more modern times, Medusa has become a symbol of strong femmes. She's even been included in the logo of fashion brand Versace. Despite the fact that Medusa was originally a beauty, she is now heavily associated with her monstrous later form, which again is all. And whatever beauty beauty is, a construct. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So Mary Valentine and, and Devon and, and Devon van[inaudible] wrote a book called female rage, unlocking its secrets, claiming its power. When we asked women what their female rage looks like to them, it was always Medusa. This is quoting, it was always Medusa. This snaky haired monster of a myth who came to mind in one interview after another, we were told that Medusa is the most horrific woman in the world, though. None of the women we interviewed could remember the details of the myth. That's a quote from the book, but it's so cool. Yeah. But, but I mean, that's how I thought. Like, I, I kind of knew the basics that Medusa turned things to stone, but I didn't know anything about the assault or the history of it at all, but she's still, I think without maybe most people knowing that has this very strong presence, more so than other figures from Greek mythology.
Speaker 3:Well, that's where the saying comes from what saying, hell hath no fury like a Gorgon scorned,
Speaker 2:Medusa has now largely been used to symbolize female rage. Again, what is female rage? And in 1978 issue of the feminist journal women, a journal of liberation, the cover featured the image of the Gorgon Medusa by froggy LoopedIn editors explained that she, and this is quoting can be a map to guide us through our terrors, through the depths of our anger, into the sources of our power as women. Right? So it's this, this thing of, she went through this awful terrible thing and became whether, regardless of the origin story, right, became this strong weaponized being in 2016 writer, Elizabeth Johnston's called Medusa called Medusa, the original nasty woman in an Atlantic essay and other contemporary artists, Judy TACAS uses the visage of Medusa to create art around the me too movement. And of course we've seen right. There's heavy victim blaming and the story of Medusa that still rings similar to what we experienced.
Speaker 3:Yeah. How dare you be assaulted. Exactly. Punishment.
Speaker 2:Exactly. One of the key characteristics of Medusa and the Gorgons in general is a hatred of mortal men. Of course, feminism is not at all a hatred of men, but it is interesting that this descriptor debate on that know their stuff. But it's interesting that this descriptor often gets lumped in with this feminist figure. There's real injustice from the character of Athena and Minerva who attacks and blames a sexual assault victim. There are very relevant themes in this story to current societal issues. The idea that Medusa is to be blamed for the sexual assault. She survived that if she wasn't so pretty or tempting, it wouldn't have happened is of course insane and horrifying. And unfortunately, again, like we've said, still the narrative for many people today, blaming people's professions, socioeconomic status attire, et cetera, is unacceptable. It does not matter if somebody is walking home late at night, right. Or, you know, like we often hear, Oh, well, she shouldn't have been in that neighborhood or she shouldn't have been there alone, or she shouldn't have been wearing that. And none of that justifies anything, none of that has to do with anything. All right. So back to Medusa, I read in an article on the Mary sue.com that Medusa actually means protect truss, like the name Medusa. It means protect truss. And of course it's heartbreaking, right. To think about all of that, but to think about that context and that she met the faith that she did. And even if it was fictional that there was nothing to protect her, you know, her protectors failed her and in, in some cases failed her and the, in the worst cases murder her.
Speaker 3:Right. And then, yeah. So yeah, there's that, that's, that's what I'm talking about. Things get so convoluted because I love the idea of Athena empowering producer to become this like anti-male weapon. Yeah. Later on, there's like, no explanation why she would send Perseus to kill her. She needs the head. That's the thing she needs. Medusa's head
Speaker 2:Mia. She has this power. Why doesn't she just turn her shield into this power? So
Speaker 3:Why doesn't she just take a goat? They sacrifice goats like 20 times a day, take a goat, take a F you know, what you to make, make it, give it some snake hair. Yeah. And then just, you know, use your goat goat cannon, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. There's a lot of ways around this. Anyway, man,
Speaker 3:Man plans. God laughs.
Speaker 2:Medusa movie time.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah. Well it's again, it's tough. There's not a lot.
Speaker 2:I would love like a Medusa revenge movie or Poseidon slash Neptune just gets and I know, okay. So we should say this too. There was, this was like an Instagram thing over the summer, I think, or a fairly recently where in New York, someone put up a statue of Medusa holding Perseus his head, I think. And there was this huge narrative at first of like. Yeah. Right. It's her taking down or maybe it was Poseidon's head, right. Her taking down her abuser. Right. But then there was also some backlash to that within the survivor community that like to fight that violence with that violence, isn't the answer. And you know, it perpetuates things. So it's all very, very complicated. And you and I are not experts on, on the subject matter of sexual assault in, you know, theories behind how people work through that trauma and all of these things, but just to kind of represent all sides of the story here, Medusa movie time, if
Speaker 3:It's a shame, because there is a bit of fiction that involves getting revenge on the gods for their awful awful behavior. The problem is that Medusa kind of gets lumped into being one of the bad guys. No, I know. I know. Uh, it is the God of war series. Hmm. So in this, um,
Speaker 2:I have to say, let me just say, and please don't be offended by this. I think this is your nerdiest episode to date. That's not true. Really? I think so. Shut up
Speaker 3:In God of war. You have your main protagonist credos in a moment of desperation. Yes. He pleads out to Aries to help him defeat his enemies areas that got a four. Yeah. And, uh, areas, grants him crazy power for battle. Right. And he goes on a killing rampage. He kills all his enemies. Uh, and he just kills, kills, kills. And then he has a moment to reflect, um, of his latest kill and he had killed his own wife and child. Oh. And that was always area's his plan because he just, he just loves just with people. Right. All it is. So he's, he just, you know, he does that, uh, credos then emulates his wife and a child, meaning, you know, burns into Ash, Sears, the Ash, his skin. So that, so that the Ash is always with them. His family is always with him and then decides that he's going to go on a quest to murder all
Speaker 2:It's like the plot of John wick. It is just like John wick.
Speaker 3:So there is actually a glargine Gorgon presence in those games. The problem is they're always just there. They're just running the mill enemies. They just show up all the time and uh, they can turn credos to stone and you just wiggle the stick and he breaks free. Yeah. But, uh, the way he defeats them is by grabbing the hair, grabbing the shoulders and just yanking until they pop. But then he can, he uses the head to fight other people.
Speaker 2:Interesting. Yeah. So the Medusa movie landscape is sort of bleak, which I think is a huge injustice and we should fix that.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. It's, it's, it's a huge oversight and it's a cool niche that has not been explored Medusa in movies has all it, at least as far as I'm aware has always just been a monster or a villain. Right? So you have the traditional Greek movies that we've already listed. Clash of Titans, wrath, the Titans, the more modern, uh, version of a mortals. Then you have the whole Percy Jackson series where Medusa is a character. She pops up a few times, um, and makes people into sculptures was kind of cool, but still she's a nefarious beast with very few redeeming
Speaker 2:There's wonder woman bloodlines. Yes. Which I've seen. I know you accidentally watched it.
Speaker 3:I act, I would just was watching a wonder woman movie and there's Medusa, which is actually kind of cool. Not terribly historically accurate.
Speaker 2:Where, where is it streaming so people can watch
Speaker 3:It HBO. Max. Cool. So in that Medusa shows up at the mascara, which is wonder woman's home, home violent. Yes. And just starts rampaging around. Oh, sorry. Who the sends her? Someone sends her shoot. Someone sends her to them mascara, uh, to just like, it up. Right. And then, and then Medusa says, Oh, don't tell me what to do. I don't fall. I don't, I, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm my own woman. And just like kills them, kills them all. Um, and then for whatever reason, she then takes the super serum because why not? And then she becomes like the 50 foot tall woman. Oh cool. And so she's like this 50 foot tall Gorgon. That's just like going around, turning everyone. Like they can't do. They look at her, they turn to stone. Yeah. And wonder woman has to fight her, which is kind of bad-ass. Yeah. Cool. There's it's not,
Speaker 2:Not a great movie. There's also a movie called Medusa. There's a movie called the Gorgon, the Medusa touch. And one that I really want to watch called evil snake. Girl.
Speaker 3:Why is this coming up now? Oh,
Speaker 2:When I Googled Medusa movies, these are literally like the top ones. I
Speaker 3:Know why I said, why haven't we seen evil snake girl, snake girl. Well, we'll have to
Speaker 2:Watch it and get back to people on it. Here's the thing. I often feel like we come into these episodes and we're like, Oh man, we're so unprepared. We, but like, we are doing so much research. We're watching so many movies for each episode. Like we can't watch every single one. We have jobs we should. If we had, if we didn't have jobs, we could please join the Patrion. Well, we're doing our best to watch as many as we can for every episode, you know, we're we really are.
Speaker 3:The one last thing I want to say about Gorgon sure. Is the idea of a Gorgon has kind of trickled into, um, other aspects of just like, just like science fiction. Oh yeah. So there's a, we actually, we talked about this series on the, uh, zombies episode of X heroes where it's a zombie apocalypse, but they're superheroes in the world. One of the heroes is named Gorgon right. On the nose, right on the nose. And he's so cool. He's got these glasses and he takes the glasses off. Yeah. That he just straight up drains people. Like he grinned, he drains their energy. Yeah. It's like rogue from, uh, from X-Men. Yeah. Except with as long as they make eye contact. And, but he's a straight up anti hero. He's like a, really like a rogue Batman. Sure. Okay. And so like, he'll up people if he's like driving around and there's just like people that cut them off in the highway, he'll just take off his glasses and they'll crash their car.
Speaker 2:Jesus Christ. Okay. All right. And so is Medusa in that? No, just the name Gorgon. Oh, Oh. That's just the guy Gordon. Got it. That's funny. Yeah. So they, they are just sort of taking the evil elements of Gorgons and infusing them into this really awful businessman.
Speaker 3:Right. Cause he's just like a small guy. Right. And it would otherwise be meaningless in the universe and you know, he'll just challenge people to fights. Right. Right. Yeah. And there's there, you know, like big muscle heads and all he has to do is make eye contact with them and they can't fight back. Right. And well, but he'll take their strength. Right. And I hurt them pretty bad.
Speaker 2:Very cool. Well, thank you guys so much. So this is the conclusion of Medusa history. Hom mad. Why, why are you mad? Because we didn't get to watch
Speaker 3:Crazy snake girl, snake, snake.
Speaker 2:Well, we can watch it. It's okay. We'll we'll watch it. We'll talk about it. We are going to put out an episode later this week, that Luna chicks library, number two, that has three very exciting Medusa theme stories. We're really excited because Adam Bashin and Laura, Sudduth read to those, those folks from dark interiors, which you'll remember from our very recent interview with them who reads the third Miranda, RCL reads the third,
Speaker 3:A huge friend of the pod,
Speaker 2:A huge friend of the pod. Yeah. So it's, it's going to be a very, very good one. I'm really excited about the stories. And I will say it includes a story that Alan Rowe and Laura reads it. I mean, Adam and Laura Moran are all amazing voice actors. So it's, it's exciting and I am excited and it's very good. It's about Medusa. It is also one quick thing. I know that we've talked a lot about some uncomfortable themes of assault. I want to give a little shout out to rain. R a I N N, which is the rape abuse, incest national network. I used to volunteer there a few years ago. They're always looking for more volunteers. And if you're looking for a place to donate, they could also always use the extra resources. Essentially. They are chatline for people who are going through traumatic experiences. Also, if you want to talk to them about how to support somebody, that's going through something like that. It's a really, really strong resource. They have tons of information and can point you in the right direction. A lot of things are really dependent on the state you're in. And so it's a good place to start to get some resources. So anyway, R a I N N and also Neil Gaiman is a huge supporter of them. If you needed any additional reason at all, to support them. Thank you guys so much for listening. We have, the Medusa has been on our list for a very long time. I think Alan had a lot of fun with this episode, which is very exciting. I felt I was really unprepared for it. Really. I felt like you carried us through the episode, so
Speaker 3:No, you didn't tell me that you're going to ask me questions. I knew the answers to.
Speaker 2:There you go. So thank you guys so much for listening as always. We are the lunatics project on Instagram, email me at films about lunatics. If you want to get on our writers newsletter and we will talk to you later in the week,