Abby and Alan explore alleged real life cases of reincarnation. Listen to part one for the history of reincarnation.
Consider donating to Mission Oxygen to help the Covid-19 crisis in India.
---
Check out Abby's book Horror Stories. Available in eBook and paperback.
Music by Michaela Papa, Alan Kudan & Jordan Moser. Poster Art by Pilar Keprta @pilar.kep.
lunaticsproject.com
Get the Spring issue of Lunatics Magazine on Etsy. Or become a Patron to get one automatically.
Abby and Alan explore alleged real life cases of reincarnation. Listen to part one for the history of reincarnation.
Consider donating to Mission Oxygen to help the Covid-19 crisis in India.
---
Check out Abby's book Horror Stories. Available in eBook and paperback.
Music by Michaela Papa, Alan Kudan & Jordan Moser. Poster Art by Pilar Keprta @pilar.kep.
lunaticsproject.com
Get the Spring issue of Lunatics Magazine on Etsy. Or become a Patron to get one automatically.
[inaudible]
Speaker 2:And welcome to another episode of the lunatics radio hour podcast. I'm Abby Brinker. This is Alan Kodak. Hello. And today we have real life in quotes, reincarnation stories,
Speaker 3:And I'm sure you've already noticed that we just sound like garbage.
Speaker 2:Oh boy. We're not recording in our normal studio. Yeah. Instead of being an Allen's apartment today, we're an Abby's apartment. So it sounds awful. Well, we'll see how many complaints we get and then we can
Speaker 3:See I'm, I'm boxed in a nice corner with all these soft things. Yeah. And she's just in this big echo-y kitchen.
Speaker 2:We're not, we're about 10 feet away from each other. It's all about pickup patterns. Yeah. Well, sorry. I apologies in advance. If my, if my audio is subpar today, I appreciate if this episodes
Speaker 3:Gets the worst ratings ever. Yeah,
Speaker 2:That's fine. All right. Well, fair enough. I'll accept the blame. So today's episode is really fun. It's the history of reincarnation part two, but it's focusing more on the modern history and some really fascinating, true life, alleged accounts of reincarnation cases. That's cool. Yeah. And I also want to restate my sources cause in the last, uh, last episode in reincarnation part one, I didn't refresh my, uh, my Google doc. And so I missed some of some of the sources. So I just want to restate the sources for both of them.
Speaker 3:W what do you mean you didn't refresh the Google doc?
Speaker 2:So on a computer, I had updated some information and in the iPad that I was using, I never refreshed the page. And so the updated sources weren't reflected. Wow. I know ma uh, a travesty of our modern era. So
Speaker 3:What you're saying is that the document was in a previous pre, previous incarnation
Speaker 2:Of it, so that's right. Exactly. Yeah. Wonderful, wonderful. Tie-in okay. So sources as always Wikipedia Hindu lifestyle series on YouTube, a book called the 30 most convincing cases of reincarnation by trots. Harteau a poly matter video on YouTube China's plan to reincarnate the Dalai Lama. Today. I found out video on YouTube, how the Dalai Lama has chosen children's past lives, which is a reincarnation documentary, an article by Dr. Anna Bertolli, Andre, audrey.com and an article from native American net roots.net. Thank you. Thank you all for your, for your patients on, on the source material drama.
Speaker 3:And on the last episode, I listed a whole bunch of sources that we never even got to. Yeah. So I hope we get to talk about
Speaker 2:Them this time. Yeah. We're also of course, going to cover the pop culture influence reincarnation has had on some of our favorite media. So that will be how we round out, round out the episode. So shall we, shall we jump right in? Okay. First I want to talk about somebody called Dorothy Eady.
Speaker 3:Oh, oh. When you mean jump right in, you mean we're just going to start talking examples.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah. W what did you think? I meant, I don't know. It'd
Speaker 3:Be like, well, once we hit the, you know, 19 hundreds, that's when reincarnation really took hold.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure. I mean, I didn't, yeah.
Speaker 3:I was imagining you're going to start quoting some, like Egyptian somebody, and it's like, surely
Speaker 2:That was, that was episode one. This is part two, you know, we're onto Dorothy Eady now. Dorothy, not Shirley. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 3:So what set the scene for me a little bit.
Speaker 2:Okay. So let's do, should I do a recap? Is that you're saying I'm too getting too excited. Okay. Episode one, recap. I don't need a recap. Okay. Where are we in the world? What time I'm going to tell you, I'm going to tell you,
Speaker 3:I need the Twilight zone intro. Imagine
Speaker 2:Your security do, do, do, do, do, do imagine yourself listening to the lunatics radio hour podcast with an ounce of patience so that you can let the host get to the information that you're looking for. You got it. Okay. So Dorothy, Eady, E a D Y, for those who want to follow along at home is one of the most famous cases of modern reincarnation claims modern. I said that six times already, this episode, Dorothy, believed that she had been an Egyptian priestess in a former life and Egyptologists and historians have spent many years trying to disprove the possibility that Dorothy was reincarnated, but have come up short. Why? Well, we'll get there. This is the, this is the teaser. Dorothy Eady was born on January 16th, 1904 in black Heath London. Does that give you your time and place? It does. Thank you. You're welcome.
Speaker 3:Aye. Aye. Going forward. Yeah. If you can just be like, now we're going to jump to 1904 Blackheath London.
Speaker 2:Okay. I probably won't do that, but I appreciate the feedback. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay. Just, just nipping it in the bud, because that's what all the comments are good.
Speaker 2:When she was only three years old, she fell down a flight of stairs, which was a near-death experience for her typical, typical, the doctor that arrived on the scene of the accident actually initially pronounced her dead after an hour or so, the little girl stands up, walks to her room and starts to play. The parents were, as you can imagine, insanely angry at the doctor for his mistake, but the doctor swears that she was dead. So does that make sense as our like initial incident here?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I guess it was like, well, why was she dead? Did she have a broken neck?
Speaker 2:Well, I think he like took her pulse, you know, and was like, she's pronounced dead. All right.
Speaker 3:I mean, okay, sure. Early 19 hundreds doctor comes to your home. Yeah. He's not x-raying you know, but like yeah. If a child falls down a set of stairs, that's either. Yeah. Either you're the only reason you're going to die is either a, if you break your neck or head
Speaker 2:Trauma, it was not like a super graphic external wound. Like it wasn't like, oh, she's bleeding. You know? It was like, yeah, exactly. Okay. Oh, her eyes fill out. That would have been awful. This accident is important because it seems to be the impetus for her strange behavior after the accident, Dorothy developed foreign accent syndrome. Have you heard of this?
Speaker 3:Yes. Only because of the, what was the possession case with the girl jumping in the air? She was floating the Enfield Poltergeist. Yeah. She had that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly. So this is, I do pay attention. This is a real medical condition where patients start speaking in a foreign accent that they did not acquire from time, spent in a certain place.
Speaker 3:So that this explains why you sometimes put on your British accent and pretend to talk to Harry Potter.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's from an injury foreign accent syndrome is somewhat common in people just after they've experienced a severe head injury or you're laughing at that. So, okay. So this is a situation, right? Dorothy falls down the stairs. She was pronounced dead. She's still alive. She starts to develop some strange behavior and she starts to speak in an accent that she would have had no exposure to in London. What accent? It's kind of like hard to pin down, but I think it's like somewhat middle Eastern. Okay. Oh, interesting. So,
Speaker 3:Oh, it's perhaps ancient Egyptian. Perhaps.
Speaker 2:She also keeps being asked to be brought home. So she suddenly is like, this isn't my home. I want to go home. And she claims that she's from somewhere else as she, you know, this isn't my home. I want to go home. She is also able to describe the place vividly, where she believes she is from and has constant dreams about it. Okay. What, what does she say? Dorothy describes her home as a huge building with pillars. And she has even fonder memories for the garden that adjoins the building. Dorothy started crying often because she felt as though she was separated from her true home. She sooner members at the location is an ancient Egypt. You may be wondering how a three-year-old in England in 1907 or so realizes her past life was in ancient Egypt. And here's a pretty simple answer. A field trip. Her parents take her to the British museum to see all of the stolen artifacts that they housed there. And to say, Dorothy was attracted to the ancient Egyptian section would be a severe understatement. Like she was pulled to it. There's all of these accounts of like, from her parents and people that she like a bee-lined for it and was like going completely crazy. Okay. So she runs over to the statues, right. And she starts actually kissing their feet, which must have been quite a sight to see like this, you know, child run to these statues and like kissing them and worshiping them. So she starts yelling that she's home and she didn't want to leave the exhibit. How old is she at the time? She's like three or four. So it's like a super annoying tantrum. Right. You know, if I had a nickel for, for every time you did that.
Speaker 3:Oh, for every time a kid pretends to be a fricking duty.
Speaker 2:This started to become an issue in more ways than one, as you may expect, Dorothy's family was Catholic and Sunday school. Dorothy, I started to talk about ancient religions and she also refused to sing hymns that were unfavorable to the ancient Egyptians. For example, there's a him that called on God to quote unquote curse. The swore Egyptians S w a R T S w a R T squirt, squirt, squirt, Hey, Google
Speaker 3:What's wart mean swore the means dark skinned.
Speaker 2:Oh. So it's even worse than I imagined. It's like Rachel, say the sentence again to curse the swore Egyptians. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like our racial slur seemingly
Speaker 3:So yes. Swart means swarthy according to Google and swore the means dark skin. Yikes.
Speaker 2:Well, apologies for that, everybody. But don't, it's her. She said it. I know, but I'm glad now we know. And we will be more mindful when we quote these old hymns. So
Speaker 3:It doesn't necessarily mean someone, you know, w like, you know, African decenter, you know, even middle Eastern, uh, someone who is like weather beaten by the sun can appear swirly.
Speaker 2:Well, that's also obviously has direct lines to people who are enslaved and forced to work out and fields all day. Right. Or Egyptian royalty. Yeah. Even though, you know, they're not building the pyramids, right? No, the Jews are. Yeah. So because of this, right, because she was refusing to take part in certain hymns and because she was going on and on about these ancient religions that were not Catholicism, she is kicked out of Sunday school. And she has kicked out of mass at her church. No, at the ripe old age of four, but at the age of seven, Dorothy spotted a photo of the temple of SETI. The first in a bios, which is in Egypt, she was able to identify this as her home and her past life. Obviously the photo of the temple was in its current state. So in good shape, but somewhat ruins. Right. It's from thousands of years before. So she was upset and confused because she was like, this is, this looks like, you know, my home after the apocalypse, there was also a photo in the book of SETI, the first himself. Well, it was of his mommy. Oh, okay. But Dorothy was also able to identify him and claim that she knew him based off the photo of his mommy.
Speaker 3:Okay. So this was a photo of his actual photograph of remains as opposed to like right. Painting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. Got it. It's a common theme. And we're going to get into it a lot more in the, in the rest of this episode that children, but also people who believe they're reincarnated, remember their deaths or claim to. So Dorothy starts to recall memories of being held underground in some sort of temple and questioned, and she starts to have nightmares about it. Okay. So here's where it gets interesting. Oh, Dorothy commits her life to this. She's obsessed with ancient Egypt and the history of Egypt at four years old. Well, as she grows. Right. Okay. So now she's growing. She even meets in Egypt man and marries him. Okay. So with her secured residency in Egypt, because what's his name? Hotep? No, because of her secured residency in Egypt, as you might expect, she's over the moon. When she finally gets to Egypt in 1931, 1931, she is 27 years old. She has a son with her husband and named the son SETI. Okay. Now that sh now that Dorothy has set up a life for herself in Egypt, she claims to have visits from a God, or at least some forum, some form of entity. Right. That's coming to her. Okay. The spirit that she believes is guiding her is called horror. RA hor RA. Yeah. So H O R space R a. Okay. Who she claimed was actually the spirit of SETI the first. Okay. So she would fall into a hypnotic trance and start writing in hieroglyphics. Oh,
Speaker 3:How the hell do you write in hieroglyphics?
Speaker 2:You have to have knowledge. That's like, one of the keys of this is like, it feels like where the did she learn to do that?
Speaker 3:At what point is it writing versus drawing?
Speaker 2:Sure. I mean, that's a good philosophical question that I don't have answer for.
Speaker 3:Has to write bird. You have to spend like five minutes trying to, bro.
Speaker 2:I don't think it means bird. I think it's
Speaker 3:You don't think it means bird? No. So how do they say bird? Hmm.
Speaker 2:Hora dictated the story to her, of her previous life over 12 month period. Whereas assaulting in 70 pages of hierarchal fix here is the story boiled down in English for you in her previous life. I was hoping you're going to read it to us in hieroglyphics. In her previous life, she was called, she was called bench a sheet, meaning harp of joy. She what,
Speaker 3:Which was confusing because the original pronunciation we thought translated to,
Speaker 2:She was left to live at the temple. After her mother died. And father could not take care of her. Right? So this is what she believed her life was in ancient Egypt before she was reincarnated that her, her, she was left at the temple at this temple of SETI the first, because she kind of had, she was bad. No, because her mother passed away and her father didn't have the means to take care of her. So they, they brought her, he brought her to this place at the age of 12. She had to choose between joining the real-world or taking a vow of virginity to honor ISIS. Oh. Because she had no other choice. Really. She decided to become a priestess of ISIS one day SETI, the first who has a Pharaoh visited the temple. And as you might've expected, they became more. Oh,
Speaker 3:But she was supposed to be celibate.
Speaker 2:Right. And we don't know how old she is at this point. And of course there's a lot of, uh, complexity when you have a Pharaoh and you have, you know, someone of no means, and you have someone who's under age and there's power dynamics. And all of these things
Speaker 3:Is celibacy, uh, limited to males. Cause there's like chase right with
Speaker 2:Women chastity. Yeah. I mean,
Speaker 3:I thought chase was the adjective Chassidy we? The noun.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But I'm saying, you know, I think to gender virginity is ridiculous and all of the words should be accurate. I overthrow that opinion. I think we should be progressive and inclusive.
Speaker 3:We get to back me into a corner on that one.
Speaker 2:Okay. So aside now, here, there is an ancient Egyptian saying that translates to eating the uncooked goose thought to be similar to. So it's like, you know, the idea of eating the forbidden fruit, but in ancient Egypt, like, you know, having sex with this girl, who's supposed to be, you know, celibate, but is eating the uncooked, goo eating the uncooked goose, which sounds so gross. Right? I mean, raga,
Speaker 3:That makes a lot more sense than eating the forbidden fruit, which requires a lot of context to understand, you know sure. Eating and cooking news is bad
Speaker 2:For you. Well, why are you driven to do it? Fruit is like, okay. Fruit is like juicy
Speaker 3:And like, cause you're just, you think of goose, right? Goose is
Speaker 2:Delicious. I think of goose that way. Goose is delicious. That's fact. And then,
Speaker 3:But you're just so impatient that you can't wait for it to be cooked.
Speaker 2:Okay. I mean, I guess if you really into goose maybe, but even still like the idea of getting goofs. Yeah. Well, no, I have not had goose. When have you heard? And goose goose
Speaker 3:Is like a traditional holiday meal, I guess, stuffed
Speaker 2:Goose stuff to eat anything of a duck? No. Oh, goose from friggin. What? The age of Charles Dickens? Our current day, uh,
Speaker 3:I mean, I'm sure they goose more back then. A goose is a traditional holiday meal. Who are you? A delight? True
Speaker 2:Goose is great. Okay. Fine. We all agree to disagree. So back in back to the,
Speaker 3:You just have to abstain from your vote cause you never even had goose.
Speaker 2:Okay. I abstain. So back to you're not even, you don't even celebrate Christmas. You're Jew. I have celebrated
Speaker 3:Christmas the last three
Speaker 2:Years with my family. And have we ever had goose,
Speaker 3:Are you saying that you are the avatar of Christmas?
Speaker 2:Oh, I was just saying, I don't know why you, why you're so hung up on this holiday goose experience because it doesn't seem like you've experienced it. I
Speaker 3:Have experienced it and it's delicious. It wasn't over Christmas. I was at a different time,
Speaker 2:But case in point the discussion
Speaker 3:At the time, because it was like, wow. A goose was like, yeah, it's traditionally used for Christmas. Okay.
Speaker 2:Sure. Back to Dorothy right in her ancient Egyptian first state before reincarnation. So she has sex with king SETI, Pharaoh, SETI. She becomes pregnant. She confides in a high priest who told her that after standing trial, it was likely she would be killed for her crimes against ISIS. She was beaten similar to her nightmare right. In this dark tunnel underground. So she commits suicide in an effort to save SETI the first from public shame. So she sacrifices her life, right. To save him the public humiliation of knowing that he had, you know, sex with someone who is supposed to be dedicated to ISIS.
Speaker 3:Talk about taking one for the team. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's bad. So all of that's pretty intense. Right? Yeah. And I hope he was really sad. I hope so too crying his dragon tears and Dorothy's husband like her, you know, the reincarnated modern day, Dorothy, her husband thought it was a little too intense too. And so in 1936 he left her and they got an official divorce.
Speaker 3:He thought it was,
Speaker 2:He thought her obsession with this was,
Speaker 3:That was the key missing element. Yes. Was, was too much. Well sure. If she's like super obsessed with this all the time that
Speaker 2:This is her whole life pretty much married him right. To, to be taken home. It is at this point that Dorothy changes her name to, um, SETI, meaning mom of SETI. Okay. For the next 20 years, she has an incredibly mind-blowingly successful career in Egypt. Tology in 1952 when she was in her late forties, she finally makes it back to the temple of SETI. The first interesting that it was due to a job transfer, but I kind of like get hung up on the fact of she'd been in Egypt for so long. Like could she not recreationally travel to the temple? You know, I guess not at the time who,
Speaker 3:Who can, who can say we are not experts on Egypt travel.
Speaker 2:Right. So she finally has this job where she's an Egyptologist and they transfer her to work at this temple, the temple of study the first. So she sets up shop literally in the temple. She makes an office for herself with it and starts feeding and onsite Cobra who hangs out with her during the day. That was pretty neat. Yeah. I like the friend. Yeah. Um, settee, AK Dorothy starts helping with archeological digs and her information led to huge discoveries for historians and researchers. This is like the, this is the punchline of this whole story. So she claimed that she was able to sort of say, okay, Hey, if you dig here, you'll find this. If you dig here, you'll find this. And she was able to successfully uncover rich histories. What my
Speaker 3:Lady, where should we dig today? Try the sand.
Speaker 2:So her biggest achievement came right after she got to the temple. She told researchers where they could find this loss garden. Remember that she had been so fascinated with, uh, and they had been looking for it. So she claimed that she could remember where it was. And lo and behold, she was right. They were able to follow her direction and immediately dug up the remains of the garden from her dreams before they dug. She also provided a layout of the garden that proved to be correct. You know, so kind of like, okay, these trees are here. This is where the benches, whatever. She also had knowledge of a secret tunnel that no one had discovered or heard of before within the temple. And she helped them locate a lost tomb in the valley of the Kings of who that's redacted. So though she had a bit of a strange reputation in the field. Most people praise the findings that she was able to contribute to and argue with the results. Yeah. So that is the story of Dorothy Eady. Fascinating. Now, where
Speaker 3:Has she, she was originally from England, right? Yes. So yeah, somebody that just grew up with absolutely no ties to Egypt and lore falls down the stairs gets bonked in the head claims to be Egyptian reincarnation. Yep. Pro proves. Right.
Speaker 2:Well, the idea, the thought is almost in that moment when she was, maybe she died, right. Maybe that original Dorothy Eady died. And this spirit that was looking for a body took over and that's why there was such a shift that she actually did die. But then her body was reinhabited by a new spirit. Interesting. Which is similar to one of the movies that we watched that we can talk about later.
Speaker 3:Oh, oh yeah. Yeah. That's very interesting. Cause the way I always thought about reincarnation is like, it's the same spirit going through cycles, but yeah, that meet those a hundred percent exists based just that the one movie we saw,
Speaker 2:Which we'll talk about later. Yeah. Okay. So now we have one more example. Okay. Well we have another example. Shante. Debbie was born on December 11th, 1926. However, she was known as lug de Devy, who was born on January 18th, 1902 and died on October 4th, 1925. So that's a pretty short lifespan. Yes. So the idea is this lug D Devy born 1902 dies. 1925 reincarnated Ashanti, Debbie born the following year. Okay. Shorthand. I'm going to refer to her as Debbie, right? Yep. So Debbie's case is controversial because she had support from Gandhi, but other religious leaders disputed her claim who disputes with Gandhi's claim. Right. I know it's pretty ballsy. Debbie grew up in Delhi, India around the age of four. She started to make claims to her parents, very similar to Dorothy, right around the age of four. That her true home was in Matera, where she lived with her husband. She had details to share about this past life. She remembered that her husband was fair, wore glasses and had a big war on his left cheek. She also knew information about his store, the store that he owned, which was 145 kilometers from Delhi when she was only six years old, she ran away from home desperate to reach Mathara. She didn't make it too far. And once she was back in school, she started to raise attention from her classmates. Again, very similar to Dorothy, uh, from her classmates and teachers with her claims, she started to tell other students that she was a married woman who had died 10 days after giving birth. Her teacher notices that she's using the local dialect of Mathara and eventually she revealed the name of her husband. So it's interesting. The headmaster of the school was able to locate a man in Mathara with the same name who had lost his wife nine years before 10 days after giving birth to a son, they decided that they're going to test Debbie. Right? So they had this man come to Delhi and pretend to be his brother. So the trick was that they are going to say like, see if she just believed in, you know, to say like, Hey, this is, you know, this is his brother. And to see if she recognized him, but she did. She immediately recognized him as her husband and even identified her son. She actually was the guy. So they had the, the person that same name. They had him come to Delhi and say, okay, pretend to be your brother. And we'll see if she picks up on this trick. And of course she immediately was like, no, that's not his brother. That's my husband.
Speaker 3:Do you think they would have just brought a total rando and be like, here's the guy? And if she's like, oh my God, the guy ABI, she's a phony.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, they could have, they could have done it that way too. Yeah. They're really flirting with fire here. Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:A bad scientific experiment. Yeah.
Speaker 2:She shared details that he would only know. And he was convinced of her identity. Right? This guy is convinced that this very young girl is the reincarnated spirit of his past wife. Okay. So at this point, Gandhi gets involved and he commissioned an investigation into her claims. That's a sentence you just don't hear. Very often Gandhi got involved. So the group traveled that he kind of commissioned, right? The group traveled with her to the place she believed was her hometown and observed her among relatives. And they concluded that she was indeed who she claimed to be. Other reports concluded that there was not enough evidence to be sure Debbie never married and told her story several more times during her life. And eventually she was interviewed by Dr. Ian Stevenson, which is a perfect transition for us,
Speaker 3:Dr. Ian Stevenson, Dr.
Speaker 2:Ian Stevenson, who is this person? I'm so glad that you asked, um,
Speaker 3:I'm not very familiar with Dr. Eva doc with Dr. Stevenson.
Speaker 2:Talk to her. Ian Stevenson was born in Quebec in 1918. He spent 50 years working at the university of Virginia school of medicine among other institutions. Dr. Stevenson founded the division of psychiatry at the university that focused on the paranormal called the division of perpetual studies. He became known for his focus on reincarnation. Over 40 years, he investigated over 3000 potential cases of reincarnation. He believed that emotions and even memories could be carried from one life to the next. His stance was that there were three factors when looking at human psychology, genetics environment and emotions carried over from past lives and knowledge of hieroglyphics, bird, bird, meaning certain phobias that do not make sense when looking at someone's genetics or environmental factors may be due to reincarnation and fears from their previous lives. Does that make sense? So like, if you, if you're a three and you have a really intense phobia of escalators or something, you know, the idea is maybe in a past life, you had an incident with it
Speaker 3:Imagining we're in ancient Egypt or setting the scene is like I'm terrified of escalators.
Speaker 2:Okay. So you have a terrible fear of escalators mammals, but you live in, you live in New York city, maybe, you know, you were reincarnated. You followed me now. Is that a better example? Yeah. Okay, great. Over the span of his career, he authored over 300 academic papers and 14 published books on the topic. What Campbell's, uh, he published books, he published 14 books on the topic of reincarnation. The largest of these was a 2,268 page, two volume reincarnation and biology, a contribution to the ediology of and birth defects from 1997. In case that you have that line around and you are wondering what the history of, of it is, that's it? Okay. So though he had passionate followers and supporters within the scientific community. He was mostly disregarded. He, you know, he was kind of like the, the quack
Speaker 3:Wasn't he commissioned by Gandhi?
Speaker 2:No, but he did interview Debbie as part of his investigation, but he wasn't commissioned to that guy. Investigator craft. Yes. A PI, a gumshoe quoting journalists, Tom Schroeder, and interviewing witnesses and reviewing documents. Dr. Stevenson search for alternate ways to account for the testimony that the child came up with the information in some normal way that the witnesses were engaged in fraud or self-delusion that the correlations were the result of coincidence or misunderstanding, but in the scores of cases, Dr. Stevenson concluded that no normal explanation sufficed.
Speaker 3:I imagine that modern day studies along the same lines are so much more difficult because, you know, you're not just going to have like this random Midwestern house where it's like, wow, the kid knows hieroglyphics that Midwestern, that was, uh, England. But same idea, you know, as someone who is super isolated, it's like, how could they possibly know this? Yeah. So like, well, cause they got their fricking iPad with YouTube. That's right. They're not watching their toy on boxing videos. They're learning about
Speaker 2:Totally. I think the only way now to, to kind of have quote unquote proof would be, if you knew a secret about somebody that wasn't public, do you know if I was like, oh, Allen actually has this super dark scary secret that only I know. And then I die and suddenly a three-year-old knocks on your door and she's like, Hey dude, I know what you did. That's it? That's the proof. What would I do? Do you want me to tell you me to tell the world your secret? All right. Well, Stevenson believed that some patients had birthmarks or other physical features that carried over from life to life as proof of reincarnation. Okay. Content warning. Oh, no, that to say is a little bit about self-harm, but for example, and one of these cases, the subject was believed to have shot himself in the throat in a past life. And in this life had a birthmark on his throat. So it's sort of like if there was a super violent graphic thing that happened, a piece of that sometimes can carry over. Sure. But that theory is a little bit different, right. From what we talked about before, because that means that the body itself is somehow, you know, it's not just like souls looking for empty bodies it's that the body itself is somehow connected to the spirit.
Speaker 3:Well, there is a whole line of mythos about how the, the, um, the physical flesh is shaped by the soul the longer, oh, you know, a really good example of this, uh, or rather a, an example that is tangible would be in the Exorcist. So you have Reagan, who's a little girl. And as she's initially possessed by what's his name Pazuzu Pazuzu. Yeah. Um, she gradually starts to transform, you know, she goes from this like little girl to like becoming more and more monstrous. And the idea is that eventually he'll fully take over and take his true form and looking just like he normally
Speaker 2:Would, right. Dr. Stephenson still to this day has a cult following and people have written books and papers about his work as proof of the existence of reincarnation. I read one of these books and we'll distill it down for you now. Examples of credible. What do you mean? I read a book. You read one of these whole books. Yeah. I read a book. No problem. On reincarnation. Yeah.
Speaker 3:When the do you examples
Speaker 2:Of kids who insist on being called a certain name? So these are, these are kind of like traits, right? Examples of kids who insist on being called a certain name, that they had a wife or a spouse of a certain name that they talk about the name of their dog. Although the family doesn't have one, they know lyrics to the words of certain genres of music that the parents don't listen to. So yeah, those are some of what we're going to talk a little bit more about modern children reincarnation right now. Yeah. And that's just kind of like the, the segue from Dr. Stevenson is that there's a lot of, we see, he sat a lot of precedent. He was a huge, huge influence in re modern reincarnation and people believing in it and the quote, unquote science behind it. It's kind of calling to my mind, you know, when we did about a year ago, actually the episode on ESP, you know, and there's like scientists, there's like divisions of universities that are looking at ESP and there's divisions of universities are looking at reincarnation. Like they're kind of have the similar, like pseudoscience label on them in, you know, in the field.
Speaker 3:Right. Absolutely. Which is why I was able to draw a, uh, example from the Exorcist. Yeah, exactly. Because all this is not verified at all.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So beyond the research of Dr. Ian Stevenson, there are many, many cases of modern children who claim to remember events that are far beyond their knowledge base. As a kid in the documentary, I watched it outlines cases of kids who talk about their wives or children from past lives, but more strangely noting how they died sometimes very graphically. So these childhood cases break down into two main categories. The first is what I've mostly talked about so far where a child remembers being somebody else in details from that specifically. Right. So they were like, I was Bob, this is what I was like as Bob. Yep. The second is when a child has details or information about a stranger that the parents are unable to identify, you know, to say like, oh, Bob, our neighbor, Bob, like I, you know, whatever. Okay. So there are hybrid cases. The documentary shows a story of a young boy named Harley. And at the age of two Harley would cry for his mama even when she was in the room. So it was this thing of, no, you're not mine. Like at two, can you imagine your child being like, no, I want my mom here.
Speaker 3:Oh, don't have to hire a two. They're a little
Speaker 2:At the age of three. He was making statements like when I lived with my other mama and at one point Harley and his family passed in nearby road and Harley said, oh, they've paved it now. But after research, the family found out that the road had been paved for 30 years, but isn't that such a weird thing. Right? You have, I'm not, I'm not coming out for, or against reincarnation. I'm just simply stating if you have a two year old in the back of your car three-year-old and he's like, oh, they paved that road now. Like what a weird thing for them to say.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. But also it's like, you can take literally any road ever be like, oh, it's paved now at one point it was not paved.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, sure. I mean, unless it was a new road, but so it's just a weird thing for a kid to say.
Speaker 3:I mean, sure. It's uncommon. Yeah. I, I, I don't, I don't believe this kid. Okay. Bunch of fakers
Speaker 2:Harley's mother went as far as to ask him how he died. He remembered dying in a car accident and had a birthmark in his current body, from the injury he suffered in the crash. He also remembered that he was a teenager when he died and his name was Jonathan and his mother was Stacy. So listen,
Speaker 3:Relation does not mean causation. That's true. He has a birthmark, right. He's like, oh yeah. See this birthmark it's from the car accident that I died in.
Speaker 2:Well, listen, I think, regardless of how you feel, it's sort
Speaker 3:Of horrible Hurley, Harley Harley Harley is a faker
Speaker 2:It's, but it's shocking to have a, three-year-old talking about violent memories of death. Like, and to have lots of like, this is not, you know, an isolated incident, there's themes of this. There's all of these. And again, I'm not coming out for, or against your incarnation. But I am saying if you have all these kids who have these, this weird behavior, maybe that's some sort of, kind of psychological condition now until this
Speaker 3:Kid points out some Egyptian tombs that no one knew about he's going into the giant pile of phoneys.
Speaker 2:Okay. You're taking a really hard line on Harley and I'm trying to understand why I hope he doesn't listen to this, then you're going to feel awfully silly
Speaker 3:And then he can come back as a reincarnated list. Yeah. And if he wants to follow us, subscribe at Le learn ticks project. You want to plug us now?
Speaker 2:a later. Oh boy. All right. Well
Speaker 3:That's the Instagram. Yeah. Instagram. Yep.
Speaker 2:You're such powerhouse. Social media influences me. So Alan, do you know a past life regression therapy is sure do tell me,
Speaker 3:We talked about it on the last one with Bonnie Kramer, how she went through past life regression therapy and it makes you remember your previous incarnations
Speaker 2:That's right past life regression therapy is a form of hypnosis therapy that is meant to help patients recall memories from their previous lives in the scientific and medical communities. Past life. Regression has been totally rejected.
Speaker 3:Why most practitioners verified
Speaker 2:Most practitioners believe that the quote, unquote recovered memories are actually delusions or fantasies,
Speaker 3:Illusions, fantasies, or injected thoughts, injected thoughts. Yeah. Uh, not injected the hell is the verb, but it's what inception is named after. It's when you just plant thoughts in someone else's head.
Speaker 2:I do that too all the time. I know. No you don't. It's subconscious the practitioner. So if you're in a session, right, the practitioner asks questions while the subject is in a hypnotic trance in order to her gain loss memories. However, again, it's been proven that suggestive questions of the interviewer can help to create these visions in the brain of the subject. You know, suddenly the interview's like, how did you die? The brains of consciously will like start conjuring up different death scenarios. Right. Right. Was it
Speaker 3:Violent? Was it in the past? Do you imagine a lot of Stonewall stonewalls?
Speaker 2:So this is known as crypto currency, crypto cryptomnesia, uh, which is narratives created by the subconscious mind using imagination, forgotten information and suggestions from a therapist or anyone. This saw a bit of a Renaissance during the spiritualist movement. When the seances and new experimental belief systems started to arise. Obviously reincarnation is not a new or experimental belief in much of the world, but in the Western world for a former Christians, it is, we especially see the connection between hypnotism and the trans lecture circuit that grew so popular during the spirituals and movement. And it's interesting to know that if you Google past life regression, as I did, I found multiple practitioners in Manhattan that still use this method and many, many, many modern books. So even though it's been widely rejected, it is still something you could pay to do in Manhattan. Well, yeah,
Speaker 3:But you can also, you can't walk more than like five blocks without going past the fortune teller with her crystal ball.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But I do think, you know, it is different when, I mean it's not different, but it is maybe something when you have an actual, like doctor's office, that's doing it when you, when you are a therapist, when you have a degree in psychology, maybe
Speaker 3:I feel like you're still gonna have to sign that waiver saying this is just for
Speaker 2:Entertainment. No, I'm not saying that. I believe it more. I'm just saying maybe it's a higher form of fraud, you know? Oh, sure. Yeah. Me there. Yeah. In conclusion, higher form of fraud in conclusion, regardless of whether or not you believe in reincarnation in a modern sense, there's no denying its vast impact over the history of humanity and check out the last episode. If you haven't on the history of it in that religious, in a religious sense, it's a key component of some of the most broadly practiced religions on earth and a staple in ancient cultures across the globe to this day. There's a phenomenon that we see in children, tens of thousands of reported cases from India to Europe, to north America that follow the same exact pattern. If it's not reincarnation, it's still an odd unsolved mystery. But now Alan it's, it's your moment. Why let us talk about how reincarnation has influenced and shaped modern. Oh, has it? It is our pop culture section. Okay. Go, let's start with movies, movies, films, if you will.
Speaker 3:Sure. Oh, some of these were movies.
Speaker 2:There's a movie called Audrey rose from 1977, which you can watch on Tubi I have not seen this one. You have not, but I saw it multiple times growing up and it's a very classic, I would classify it as a seventies, horror film, potentially psychological in nature, but it's the horror and it is the story of, of a little girl. It's very kind of related to what we're talking about, who, you know, goes through something awful and is reincarnated. And a lot of it's about like past life regression in a lot of these topics. And it's, I think it's like a staple seventies, horror movie. So sure you can watch that on TV TV if you'd like, but I, uh, all vouch for it. There's a movie from 2005 called reincarnation,
Speaker 3:Also called death house.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Something like that, which we watched and I will let Alan, I'll let you take this one because I don't have fond feelings about this movie.
Speaker 3:So I'm going to as quick spoiler alert on this one. So this is one of those movies that's best gone into blind that said don't even bother. That's not a great movie. In fact, I think it holds an unrelated to reincarnation, but I think it holds a place easily among the top 10 for worst acting in a film.
Speaker 2:Yes. Terrible. And I really hated it. I've worked
Speaker 3:On so many student films and this, this is still up there. Yeah. Just what an awful script. Awful. Awful. Right? Awful. Um, dialogue is what is, what was the
Speaker 2:Character? The plot itself wasn't terrible, but the dialogue and the acting was a business.
Speaker 3:It was it's. It's like they just ran it through an AI generator. But
Speaker 2:Why don't you give like the overview of the plot, like in the one sentence overview. So
Speaker 3:They call it reincarnation. That's a little weird. It's a bit of a stretch, I think for traditional reincarnation. Yeah. It's basically an elaborate escape room. So we can actually bring this up again on an upcoming episode about escape rooms, spoiler for anyone that's actually gotten this far in the app, you have three people that have thrown into like this twisted game where they have to consistently keep murdering each other. And according to the rules, if you kill the other two within an hour or something, then you win that round. And all three of you get reincarnated into the next phase, which is the same copy of the house. And you need to do that like 200 something times hurt a hundred. I don't remember how many, but yeah, you have to do it many, many times. Otherwise you're stuck in purgatory forever. Yep. But not actually second purgatory forever because there's only so much food and you can still just die
Speaker 2:And one, uh, and two of the three fall in love with each other. It is the whole thing. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And it's weird. And the movie is also a little racist. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yup. The end. Okay. Next. But
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yes. The mechanics I found. Interesting. Okay. So like the, the whole like, cause I love any, any world that establishes a bunch of very defined supernatural rules for, for whatever reason that makes movies really resonate with me. So for instance, when you have like a, uh, a vampire or a werewolf movie and they kind of, they, they just really lay the groundwork down for you. Like these are the limits of the supernatural being, these are the, these are its strengths. These are its weaknesses. Um, and it will follow these rules. Yeah. Uh, a lawful evil alignment if you're playing D D and D. Yes. Very good. Very good. It's cause what, what drives me nuts is when you have, uh, some kind of supernatural something and it just keeps pulling powers out of its,
Speaker 2:You know,
Speaker 3:It's like that kid that, you know, you're playing you're, you're just play fighting and you go, you go to shoot him with the Nerf gun that you're playing. He's like, no, I've got, I've got the invisible Nerf gun magic shield. Yeah. Well screw you kid. You didn't have that a second ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's like frigging mortal combat. No
Speaker 3:Mortal combat has a very defined set of rules. Everyone has a move set that moves that cannot be altered unless you're Shang song and you can morph into
Speaker 2:That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3:Shank song. Yeah. Well, Shang song still has to abide by the move set of others. Okay. You can't mix and match on the fly unless you're here.
Speaker 2:We also watched a movie from 2006 called the return, which is available on HBO. Max. This was a much better movie, much better. I don't know that I would call it horror. Maybe more of a psychological thriller. Yeah, for sure. It's got Sarah Michelle Gellar.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean either there some spooky, there's some scary parts with the guy with the
Speaker 2:Knife. It also has Sam Shepard in it. Do you want to give the plot over overview of this one? No, I just did the last one. Okay. So the return is follows. Sarah, Michelle Gellar his character
Speaker 3:One quick disclaimer, this movie is worth watching. Yeah. So if you would not like
Speaker 2:I won't give it. I won't give any anyway. It's okay. Not at all.
Speaker 3:Okay. We're not going to, but I just, again, I really love going to movies blind. So if you'd like to skip ahead, 10 seconds, 10 seconds. 30 seconds. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So Sarah, Michelle Gellar is the protagonist. She there's something going on with her past. Right. She senses it. She looks in the mirror, she sees it. And the story is, is about her uncovering what that is and how it intersects with some other characters. And it's it does have, I will say, yeah, you're right. The guy with the knife in that whole subplot is pretty scary. I would still say it's. I don't know if I would say it's horror, but it is scary. There are some moments where I was like, actually, no, you're right. There's
Speaker 3:Jump scares. A lot of jumps. There are jumps if he asked me.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But it's, it's good. It's solid. Like mid two thousands creepy
Speaker 3:Movie. Like they're in the bathroom when they just closed the mirror a little bit. And
Speaker 2:Then yeah, those all got me good. A lot of like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. But still overall good movie.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So those are the movies that we
Speaker 3:Watch. I also just want to say that it's it's um, of, of the few movies that we watched on reincarnation, which was actually kind of tough to track down. Um, this was the only one that seemed like steeped in traditional reincarnation mythos, which I wasn't even aware of until we, you know, the episode yeah. Were talking about things like the, the soul that bounces around, you know, as opposed to one that just goes through cycles, which I
Speaker 2:Thought, yeah, totally. Are there movies? So check out if you're interested. Well, yeah, totally other movies to check out. Sorry. Daughters of Satan, 1972, which is available on Amazon. Prime is a good how these are. We're just saying these are reincarnation movies. I haven't seen these well, I've seen the mummy, which technically qualifies.
Speaker 3:We're not going to talk about the money because we will get strongly derailed. Yes. And we have an upcoming episode again, for all you people that magically got this far in the episode,
Speaker 2:There's a movie called the reincarnation of Peter proud from 1975, which I cannot find anywhere. And a movie called dead again. And from 1991 on Hulu. And now I'm going to jump the shark and talk about a series, a, an Amazon series, I believe. Yes. Called up desperate Housewives, no called upload, which is about singularity and I singularity is not reincarnation, but I do think the interesting, there's interesting thematic similarities with, you know, pulling out the soul from the body and extending the life of it.
Speaker 3:Actually, this is a very valid point. Thank you. So anytime we talk about the singularity or, um, and, uh, uh, the digital digitization of a human consciousness. Yes. I don't think anyone thinks that it's the exact person. It's always a copy of that person potentially, which feels a lot like reincarnation, right? Where it's they might have all the memories, but it's still, technically not the same person.
Speaker 2:The question about singularity is do you, does one, does one like, feel like you are alive, does your consciousness follow into the cloud or whatever into, into the digital space? Or is it just like a mimic? Because if it's a mimic than it is not an extension of your life, it's just like that you've created a character,
Speaker 3:A video game. Now you're being like, whoa, what is work? What is life?
Speaker 2:I'm just saying, if you, if, if my consciousness, right. If I say I'm, you know, uploaded to the cloud right. In the simplest of terms. Yeah. If I, me, Abby don't feel that then all that exists in the cloud is a mimic of who I was. It is not an extension of my life or my consciousness. So the big question becomes, do you feel like if my body dies and I believe, and I feel like I am still alive in this space, even if it's digital, okay. Then that's, then that's reincarnation. That's an extension of life. That's something crazy. But if that's not what happens then it's just the video game. So
Speaker 3:It's also very subjective to the PR the point of view, we're going to keep you with your example, right? Yeah. Yep. So you upload, you, you, you decide Abby, Abby decides to become uploaded. Yeah. Okay. So a full digital copy of your consciousness and being is now in the cloud. Yeah. Right. Uh, if that consciousness were to appear to another person, right. Say one of your loved ones, this consciousness appears to them over a computer, just like zoom, you know, and can say an act just like you, to them, to, to, to your family member. This would seem exactly like you and would seem like you are still continuing.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, that's like smarter child. Like that doesn't mean anything about me and if I feel alive anymore, or if I've died, like it's just a replacement.
Speaker 3:Right. But that replacement would feel very much alive
Speaker 2:To that. But do, does the replacement feel alive to itself? I know is the question I think, so you think, I would feel like this is me. Well,
Speaker 3:It depends on the intricacy of the simulation, you know, like, are you in full virtual reality where it's like, you are just, you have your human senses, uh, and you're living in a virtual world. You know, the, our, our, our senses are just electrical impulses in the first place. There's no reason to think that, um, technology won't eventually, uh, get to a point where we're basically living in the matrix, you know?
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I think even without sentences, I'd be, it could still work if I have a spark of who I am.
Speaker 3:So, um, and, uh, I read a book series on this topic. Uh, and one theme that they go over is that normally when a consciousness gets uploaded, it has a, um, it needs that sense of senses and a virtual reality to stay sane because a human body can, a human mind cannot exist, uh, as it is in basically consistent sensory deprivation. Interesting. It would just go insane because, you know, in think about sensory deprivation, chambers. Yeah. People often start hallucinating just to fill the void because the human mind is not meant to be cut off from its senses.
Speaker 2:I wonder what, how, like, technology has impacted that too, right? Like us relying on our cell phones and kind of like sometimes less paying less attention to certain senses and more to others.
Speaker 3:Um, I mean he back it up even further, just like we are tied to our site. If you're not tied to your site, you're tied to your sound. If you're not tied to sight and sound, then you're Helen Keller and you need to, uh, you interact with the world through touch, strip away, all of this. Right. You're just a mind in a void. Right. And that leads to insanity.
Speaker 2:That's like, yeah, that's like purgatory, but
Speaker 3:With the technology to upload, there's no reason to think that those, the mines can not be put in some kind of virtual reality that allows for interaction to retain the functions of humanity.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very interesting. It reminds me of a friend of ours who recently was telling me about his theory of the afterlife. Okay. Matt O'Brien. Okay. And we were talking about it and he was saying how he believes or potentially could, you know, I don't know if this is what he believes, but he was thinking about how after death, your mind, if your soul and your mind still exist, even though your body can't, your subconscious still exists. And I think it's similar to what you're saying, what this lack of simulation that it just goes into almost like a perpetual dream sequence of your subconscious and like memories and dreams and things that come in. And if you are in some kind of void situation where that's all that's left, then I think that's, you know, well, it's related to what you're saying.
Speaker 3:The, the only thing I have to say about that is memory is tied to gray matter. You know, just take it, look, take a look at somebody with brain damage.
Speaker 2:I have, I have excess gray matter in my
Speaker 3:Brain. That explains a lot. Thanks. If someone has physical brain damage, they don't act like themselves. Right. Right. So the, the, the soul, if you will, if it exists should be, it's supposed to like retain aspects of its humanity. But like, if that's so tied to the flesh, how is that possible? You know, in a singularity situation, it uploads a copy of your mind, not just your soul. Right. So you're, that's how you retain the humanity.
Speaker 2:That's interesting. I wasn't thinking about them in, in those like split ways. What'd you do it? I've asked you this before. Oh yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So everyone, I signed me up to circle back. Everyone should watch upload. If you're interested in this at all, it's on Amazon prime. I think it's an Amazon original and it's like a little quirky and whatever, but it actually is a really interesting exploration of this and like what the world will look like when this like absolutely does come to be.
Speaker 3:And if you want to read a book, uh, we are Allegion. Yeah. Best, best book.
Speaker 2:We are Legion. We are well, the full title, Bob Bob averse,
Speaker 3:Full title is we are Legion. We are Bob.
Speaker 2:We are Bob Dunn.
Speaker 3:It's all about a guy. Uh, and his journeys into his process of becoming an AI.
Speaker 2:Cool. I actually do want to read that one time. Once I finished the gunslinger freaking good, good summer series to jump into,
Speaker 3:I'm also one of the, it was one of my first audio books, uh, and with also high discovered the amazing talents of Ray Porter. Oh yes, yes. Actually. I'm sorry. Um, I'm mixing this up. The V the first Ray Porter experience I have was on a book called 14, which is absolutely going to come back into play. If we ever do an episode on cosmic horror,
Speaker 2:Which we should, we could, could do anything.
Speaker 3:But after that, I was like, wow, this guy is great. And so I started looking at his other works and discovered we are Legion. Nice. That's awesome. I say his works. He's the voice actor. He's not the
Speaker 2:Right. Right. But voice act. We've talked about how important a good voice actor is. A good narrator.
Speaker 3:Yeah. We are leading was written by Dennis Taylor. 14 was written by Peter Klein's. Um, both of those guys I've read almost all of their works. Really, really awesome stuff. If you like science fiction. Yeah. And Peter Klein specifically, if you like science fiction mixed with a little,
Speaker 2:Oh, which we do, we do. We love that. Keeps it fun. He keeps it fresh spicy and
Speaker 3:Keeps it just spooky enough where it's like, CA has you a little on edge without being like, this is stress stressful
Speaker 2:To read. I love that. That's the perfect recipe. It is. Well, I think that this concludes part two half reincarnation. What? I have not talked about justice league yet.
Speaker 3:I cited those sources. Come on. So one of my favorite reincarnation stories actually comes from DC, specifically the justice league. Okay. So you have a superhero in yes. Called Hawk girl Hawk, Hawk, girl. Yes. Sure. And D can you picture hot girl?
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's a, she's a hot, hot girl.
Speaker 3:So she, she is, you know, looks like a normal woman with the head of a Hawk and wings, wings, and a big mace. And she's one of the bruisers, you know, she just beats the crap out of bad guys. I'm with you. Well, uh, you find out way later that her Hawk head is actually just an intricate helmet. Her head. Yeah. And she, she, she can take it off, but she's never supposed to take it off. Like the Mandalorian, just like the Mandalorian. She's actually only allowed to reveal herself to her soulmate. Who is that? I am so glad you asked boy, what other hot, hot girl, number two. Well, here's the thing. She is just, you know, she's from the planet. FANUC are full of hock people and she's just chill on earth. Right. And she falls in love with green lantern. Isn't he a villain? No, you're thinking no
Speaker 2:Greenland turned green. Goblin green.
Speaker 3:Yes. Green goblin is a villain from Spiderman. A green lantern is one of the justices.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Your man and justice league. How dare you get in there, man? I don't want to get you off track. Go ahead. Talk about the Marvel, even in DC. All right. Let's talk about the Hawk people.
Speaker 3:Okay. So she's from Santa Gar and she falls in love. She's on earth for a long time. And she falls in love with green lantern. Sure. And then one day Hawk man shows up her dad, no, her brother, her soulmate. And he has been searching for her forever. And yikes
Speaker 2:Sounds a little possessive. Well,
Speaker 3:The thing is like, she loves too and she can, I explain it. And, but he explains it to her. He's like, of course you feel this way. We've been together. We find each other, every generation. And then you, like, they reveal how through all of time there are, they are just two souls meant to be United and they fall in love. They live out their life. Maybe they fight. But then, you know, they always fall back in love with each other. And after one dies, the other spends their remaining life trying to hunt down the reincarnated soul. And if they're both dead, then it just takes a while. But they always find each other in the end. And then you have Hawkgirl here. Who's really, really torn because she has a deep primordial love for Hawk, man. Uh, because like it's been thousands of years that they've been together, you know? Yeah. But on the other hand, like she acknowledges that every time she reincarnates, she's a new person and like, yes, she has all these, you know, ingrained memories and passions. But her current life, she's very much in love with green lantern and living her life.
Speaker 2:It's okay to be polyamorous. Sure. That's not the point of the story. Okay. Um,
Speaker 3:She's basically just fighting with her identity of Juul. M M I a slave to destiny, or am I free to follow my heart as it is now also like Hawk man kind of roles in being like, why are you even fighting this? Like we're going to be together. We're always together. Your mind,
Speaker 2:Your mind triggered. Yeah,
Speaker 3:Exactly. Also a Hawk man is base like giant guy head of a Hawk. It's just a helmet with amaz. Like he's a, he's like another giant, big bruiser and you know, big, big macho type. Yeah. Obviously she's very put off by this cause like the current version of her is not all about that. And so yeah, she just has to she's she's torn in two ways where it's like, my heart is being pulled in two completely separate directions and she has to make it make a triad out of it. Triad. Yeah. Like the, the Chinese gang.
Speaker 2:No, it's, it's a sect of polyamory. Oh, where there's one, one, uh, tip of the V, which would be her and she has two concurrent relationships. Well,
Speaker 3:Um, neither Hawk man, nor GRI lantern. We're very in favor of
Speaker 2:Fair enough. All right. Got it. You gotta be on board with everybody. So, I mean, I dunno. Don't tell us what happens. Right. That sounds like a huge spoiler. Sure. But w w where do you find out the answer? Do you read the comic books or is this an, a movie?
Speaker 3:Um, I got this from the justice league, um, uh, early two thousands TV show. Is that a cartoon? Actually it, yeah. It's from the second series justice league unlimited.
Speaker 2:Where do we watch it now? Uh, it's
Speaker 3:Actually all on HBO max. Cool.
Speaker 2:I kind of want to see what happens with this Hawk, Hawk drama. It's amazing. All right. Good to know. I guess I don't know as much about DC as I do about Marvel. No,
Speaker 3:Because he didn't know that Spider-Man is not in the justice
Speaker 2:League. No, I didn't know. Who is Batman. Yes. Harley Quinn. Legion of doom.
Speaker 3:No, no. That's the opposite of justice league. The Legion of doom was created to be
Speaker 2:Poison Ivy, shark, man, shark, man mud man. Just a little mad guy.
Speaker 3:No, you're just, you're naming people from the Harley Quinn TV show that you've seen. Yeah. And you're not, even though I love that show.
Speaker 2:That show is so good. It is good. It's on HBO to watch that everyone watched that and said that show is so good. The
Speaker 3:Watch instead we'll watch it all concurrence.
Speaker 2:One, one on your computer. One on your laptop. I mean your TV. Okay. Well, any other reincarnation stories on that? We've missed. That's the big one. All right. I love that one. Thank you all so much for listening. This was a really fun one. I hope you all enjoyed it. And Alan now would be a great time for you to plug our social media if you'd like to. Yes.
Speaker 3:If you would like to follow us. Yeah. We are on Instagram,
Speaker 2:Twitter cracked Facebook fate.
Speaker 3:Really? Yeah. Oh, I guess we're on Facebook.
Speaker 2:All right. I'll take over from here. How about that? Oh, and we're on Stitcher.
Speaker 3:Spotify, not grub hub. No, not grub hub. That's the food
Speaker 2:One. You can follow us at the lunatics project on Instagram. We are also at lunatics project on Twitter and we have a Facebook group called the lunatics project. And of course our website lunatics project.com is going to have links to our merch store, to Patrion, to Etsy, to everything else that we're up to have, have updates with what's going on with us. So that's the best place to start. Please subscribe. It really does mean a lot. If you like the podcast or rate and review wherever you listen. And thank you guys so much for listening. We're coming back next week with two excellent short stories that listeners have submitted to be right on the show about reincarnation. And we're super excited to share those with you. Cool. Yeah. So until then stay safe and we love you all. Yeah.