Lunatics Radio Hour: The History of Horror
Lunatics Radio Hour is a non-fiction history podcast about the history of horror and the horror of history. Each episode explores real, documented events where fear, violence, survival, and the unknown shaped human lives and cultures. The show also traces how historical events influenced film, examining how real-world horrors became the stories and images that appear on screen.
Topics include dark history, psychological phenomena, folklore rooted in fact, and the historical roots of horror cinema. Most episodes focus on researched historical subjects. Occasional short fiction stories are included and clearly labeled.
If you’re drawn to the darker side of history and the real events behind horror films, Lunatics Radio Hour explores where history, fear, and cinema intersect.
Lunatics Radio Hour: The History of Horror
Episode 200 - The History of The Final Girl
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In this episode of Lunatics Radio Hour, we explore the history of the Final Girl, one of horror’s most recognizable character archetypes. From early examples in horror literature and film to the rise of the slasher genre in the 1970s and 1980s, we examine how the trope developed and why it became so important to horror storytelling.
We discuss the academic origins of the term, the characteristics traditionally associated with the Final Girl, and how characters like Laurie Strode, Nancy Thompson, and Sidney Prescott helped define and evolve the role. We also look at how modern horror films have challenged, expanded, and reinterpreted the trope for new audiences.
Join us as we trace the history of the Final Girl and her lasting impact on horror cinema.
Follow @Sonrisalibrary on Instagram.
Sources
- Men, Women, and Chain Saws by Carol J Clover (1992)
- Fandom article: Halloween Flips The Final Girl Trope on Its Head by Kim Taylor-Foster
- In Session Film article by Codie Allen: The Scream Queen’s Legacy: Janet Leigh and the Evolution of Horror
- Dread Central article by Mary Beth McAndrews: Jess’s Choice: How ‘Black Christmas’ (1974) Responsibly Addresses Abortion and Bodily Autonomy
Get Lunatics Merch here. Join the discussion on Discord. Check out Abby's book Horror Stories. Available in eBook and paperback. Music by Michaela Papa, Alan Kudan & Jordan Moser. Poster Art by Pilar Keprta @pilar.kep.
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the 200th episode of the Lunatics Radio Hour Podcast. My name is Abby Brinker, and I'm sitting here with Alan Kudan.
SPEAKER_00Hello.
SPEAKER_02For our 200th episode, we really wanted to do something special, and this felt like a glaring oversight in the archives of the Lunatics Project.
SPEAKER_01We we there's no such thing. We are flawless.
SPEAKER_02Today we are talking about one of the most recognizable figures in horror, the final girl. She is the person left standing when the monster is gone, the killer is defeated, and everyone else has fallen. But where did this character come from? And how did she evolve from a terrified survivor into one of horror's most important protagonists? The final girl is a character archetype commonly found in horror films, especially slasher movies. The term refers to the last surviving female character who is typically the one who confronts the killer and survives the events of the story. The term final girl was initially coined by Carol J. Clover in 1987. Clover is an American scholar known for her work in film studies, gender studies,
Welcome To The Final Girl
SPEAKER_02and, interestingly, Scandinavian literature. She taught for many years at the University of California, Berkeley, where her research explored topics ranging from medieval Scandinavian culture to modern film and pop culture. She is best known for developing the concept of the final girl. Her work helped bring greater academic attention to horror movies and their portrayal of gender violence and survival. Clover later expanded on the concept of the final girl in her book Men, Women and Chainsaws from 1992. So for this book, she studied slasher films from the 1970s and 80s and defined the final girl as the lone survivor of a group that is targeted by a killer. She also observed that the final girl character typically has a final confrontation with the villain and either defeats them or survives until help arrives. Importantly, Clover also argued that these characters were often portrayed as more reasonable or cautious than their peers, frequently avoiding behaviors such as drug use or casual sex that were common among the other characters in the movie. All of those characters typically ended up killed. We're going to get into examples, but Lori Strode is a really good example of that, right? She's very pious. So today we're going to talk about the precursors for modern-day final girls, some examples throughout horror history, and the state of the final girl horror trope today. Our discussion is going to be a little bit academic in nature, but I think there's something more personal and emotional, perhaps, about the final girl trope to a lot of horror lovers out there.
SPEAKER_01Why is that?
SPEAKER_02Because I think growing up watching horror, which a lot of the times is made predominantly or was historically for men, there's something about seeing a woman survive and outsmart everybody, even though there's complications to that that we're going to talk about, that I think resonates with people or resonated with people who grew up watching a lot of these slasher movies.
SPEAKER_01It has been my experience that women like horror more than men.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but I don't think marketers and film studios knew that for a long time. So I talked to three women. Three women who have been very important over the years to the Lunatics Project in different ways. And I'm going to share some quick quotes from each of them on what final girls mean to them. The first is from our friend Sarah Luke. Quote, I really kind of love the Final Girl trope because it goes against the standard of most other film genres. It's fun to watch powerful female leads, and horror films have the best ones. From a creative standpoint, it's really amazing that you can write a final girl as any demographic, and people are more open to connect with the character than with other types of films. Final girls are usually the underdog, and it's fun and relatable to watch them overcome struggle. They are resilient and smart, and when they win, we all feel like we win too. End quote. From our friend Kate Rotunda, quote, overall, I love the Final Girl trope and horror, but final girls exist on two sides of a coin. On one side, they can be feminist and badass depictions of women, fighting through their hardships and getting the better of whatever monster seeks to destroy them. On the other hand, however, the trope of the final girl perpetuates the pervasive need for horror to show women being physically and psychologically tortured in order to entertain the audience and earn their survival, end quote. And from our friends Mad's O'Brien, quote, as a horror fangirl, the final girl is a complicated topic. They straddle the line of horror subversion while also being a critique on loose or sexualized women. The final girl is typically mousy, shy, book smart, and overall sexless. She's beautiful, but is often the butt of jokes because of her lack of experience. I'm thinking of Lori Strode from Halloween or Sidney Prescott from Scream. They're forced through adversity. Many are physically assaulted. They lose everything. Boyfriends, family, animals, to the serial killers or monsters. However, final girls are also the lens that the audience experiences horror through. They are the one we're meant to root for and empathize with. They are the ones who are smart, who pick up weapons, or figure out the catch behind killing the creature. They are the ones that ensure the story can end with survival, even though they are saddled with the trauma. So I like final girls because I always identify with them. And I love that role being explored further. I'm thinking of Chris in Get Out or Grace in Ready or Not. Final Girls can and should take back power and prevail, but it's important to understand how their role can also be deeply misogynistic when used to compare the good girl with the wild girl. End quote. And because I always value Mads' opinion on everything above all else, you can also follow her bookstagram at Soon Risa Library, and I'll link that in the description.
SPEAKER_01What's a bookstogram?
SPEAKER_02A bookstogram is an account where people read books and then post their reviews of them. And of course, by nature of the beast, there will be some spoilers today. So proceed with caution.
SPEAKER_01First spoiler right now.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01During Mad's quote, we heard that the final girl, according to the trope, has to lose everything. And for the most part, that's true. But my personal favorite final girl did a great job of not doing that.
SPEAKER_02Who's your favorite final girl?
SPEAKER_01Ripley from Alien. She protects Jonesy, the cat.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think it's that it's not that I don't think Mads is saying they always lose everything. I know they often lose everything.
SPEAKER_01It's the trope, but like the hero's job is to, you know, defeat the villain, but also protect the others, right? As a as a macro.
SPEAKER_02Sure.
SPEAKER_01So the the the the peak final girl is the one that survives and helps the other survive in the process.
SPEAKER_02Well, we're gonna talk about a lot today the evolution from the final girl as survivor to hero, right? I think in a lot of the early things, she simply survived through it.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_02And by Ripley, which is a great example, and Sarah Connors, another kind of non-horror example, you have them acting as heroes, right? And not just kind of like survivors.
SPEAKER_00Sure.
SPEAKER_02So let's talk about some sources very quickly. There's a book from 1992, one we've already talked about today: Men, Women and Chainsaws by Carol J. Clover. There's a fandom article, Halloween Flips the Final Girl Trope on Its Head by Kim Taylor Foster, an in-session film article by Cody Allen, The Scream Queen's Legacy, Janet Lee in the Evolution of Horror, and a Dread Central article by Mary Beth McAndrews, Jess's Choice, How Black Christmas
What The Trope Means Personally
SPEAKER_02Responsibly Addresses Abortion and Bodily Autonomy. So as always, let's take a step back, right? Because we're tracing this trope through history. That's what we do on this podcast. So I think there's some important precursors to the trope from Gothic literature that helped to set the stage for the evolution of the final girl. This is one of my favorite books because I took a whole seminar on it in college. But Jane Eyre is not a horror story. But Jane shares traits that would later appear in Final Girls, right? Intelligence, independence, resourcefulness, and the ability to survive isolation and danger.
SPEAKER_01Spoilers. I I have a confession.
SPEAKER_02You've never read it.
SPEAKER_01I've never read it.
SPEAKER_02I never thought you would have.
SPEAKER_01So many other literary works that you would typically read in high school. I made a point of like going back later in life and going through them because some of them are so incredible that are honestly wasted on the high school age mind.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But you read it later in life and like wow.
SPEAKER_02Have you ever read any Bronte, Charlotte or Emily?
SPEAKER_01Uh no. They've done others.
SPEAKER_02Wuthering Heights, to name one.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that I didn't like the movie.
SPEAKER_02What movie?
SPEAKER_01The Wuthering Heights movie.
SPEAKER_02The new one?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. You watched it? No.
SPEAKER_02Uh I would suggest reading Villette. That is my favorite Charlotte Bronte novel.
SPEAKER_01Oh, you do like that book. Yeah. You talk about it a lot.
SPEAKER_02So throughout Jane Eyre, she repeatedly faces danger, isolation, and uncertainty, but she continues to endure. Jane Eyre is important as a precursor because Gothic fiction often centered on women trapped in threatening environments, and they survived through quick thinking and determination, rather than physical power. Those ideas would later become central to horror's final girls. Another example, Laura, the narrator of Carmilla, can also be viewed as an early precursor to the trope. Carmilla was published in 1872. It was shared in Latanu's novella, which predates Dracula and many of the conventions of modern horror. I love Carmilla, and if you haven't read it, it's a very short, easy, delightful read. So Laura survives an encounter with a supernatural predator and she lives to tell the story. Laura also occupies a position common to many gothic heroines and later final girls. She is isolated from the outside world, and this idea of isolation becomes important. Living with her father in a remote castle. Many later horror films place their final girls in similarly secluded environments where escape and outside help are limited. At the same time, Laura differs from the modern final girl in important ways. She does not directly defeat Carmilla herself. Instead, a group of male authority figures investigate the attack and uncover Carmilla's identity. They end up being the ones to destroy the vampire.
SPEAKER_01Spoilers.
SPEAKER_02I told you there's going to be spoilers today. It's important to note though, like I'm I'm going to only try to say the spoilers that I think are important to this conversation, which is that even though she's a precursor for the final girl, again, like a group of men come in and actually save the day.
SPEAKER_01Right, because otherwise it'd be indecent.
SPEAKER_02Laura survives, but she is more often the victim of the threat than the person who actively defeats it. This one's a little bit of a stretch, but I it came to mind for me, and I think it's worth noting. There's an unnamed narrator of Daphne Dumore's Rebecca. This can be viewed as a gothic version of the Final Girl archetype, Stick With Me. So Rebecca was published in 1938. The novel is not a traditional horror story, but it's traditional enough, right, to be turned into a Hitchcock film later, which I certainly would say is horror. And it uses many elements found in Gothic fiction. Threatening House, this very mysterious past, right? You may also be somewhat familiar with the plot of Rebecca if you've ever been to Sleep No More.
SPEAKER_01Uh, what's that?
SPEAKER_02Sleep No More is one of the best immersive shows ever made in a long time.
SPEAKER_01Or was.
SPEAKER_02It's still running in Korea and in Shanghai.
SPEAKER_01Is it really? Yes. Are you gonna go?
SPEAKER_02I would love to.
SPEAKER_01Is it in Korean or Mandarin?
SPEAKER_02I think it's not, but there's also just very little speaking, you know.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's true.
SPEAKER_02So I think it doesn't really matter. Like later Final Girls, the narrator must confront a threat that controls her environment and survive the psychological pressure it creates. And this is probably the most direct example. So in Brahm Stoker's Dracula, which was published in 1897, Mina faces a supernatural threat. She survives an attack by a monster and plays a key role in defeating him. Mina actively investigates the danger and helps organize the effort to destroy Dracula. Mina is cautious, intelligent, and able to remain calm under extreme circumstances. While other characters are killed or weakened by Dracula, Mina survives the encounter and helps bring about his destruction. Her survival is not based on luck, but on her ability to recognize danger and respond to it. However, Mina also reflects the limitations of Victorian gothic fiction. She is protected by the male characters around her, and the novel often frames her survival through traditional ideas about femininity and purity. Unlike many modern final girls who physically confront or defeat their attackers, Mina's strength comes from her own smarts, loyalty, and ability to help others to work together. Despite these differences, Mina Harker is one of the clearest literary predecessors to the Final Girl. Her role in Dracula connects the gothic heroine of the 19th century with the survivor figures who would become central to 20th century horror. But early horror films expanded this trope even further and brought us closer to the modern-day final girl. Ellen from Nosferatu in 1922 is often cited as one of the earliest horror heroines who resembles a final girl in film. In Nosferatu, she realizes the danger posed by Count Orlock and ultimately sacrifices herself to stop him. By keeping the vampire occupied until sunrise, she causes his destruction.
SPEAKER_01How does she do that?
SPEAKER_02Love making.
Gothic Literature Precursors
SPEAKER_01We talked about it on the Hitchcock episode.
SPEAKER_02People weren't talking about it enough.
SPEAKER_01Well, why would they talk about it if it's a silent film?
SPEAKER_02Oh, good point. Good point. Daisy Bunting is a character that becomes a potential victim but ends up surviving the threat. While she's not a final girl in the modern sense, the film introduces themes that would later become central to slasher films, including a female character pursued by a murderer. And although the cat and the canary from 1927 is often classified as a comedy mystery with gothic elements and not pure horror, its heroine, Annabelle West, functions in ways that anticipates later final girls. She inherits a mansion, becomes the target of a mysterious threat, survives attacks, and uncovers the truth behind the danger. Of course, the character of Mina from Dracula also appears in the 1931 film adaptation. But in the 1960s and 70s, we start to see proto-final girls in film. So let's talk about that. And this example is one that Clover, right, the woman who coined the term, talks about quite a bit in her book. Marion Crane from Psycho is often discussed in relation to the Final Girl, but largely because she breaks the pattern that audiences later came to expect. For the first third of the film, Marian appears to be the protagonist. The story follows her as she steals money, flees town, and eventually arrives at the Bates Hotel. There's some tells here, right, that she's not maybe the final girl in the way that um modern-day slasher movies look at that because, again, which is all misogynistic and whatever, but because she has sex at the beginning of the movie, she steals money, she is not pure of heart, right? Not that any of those things make her I mean certainly not. Stealing money is a little bad. Okay. Viewers are encouraged to believe that she will remain the central character and survive the story. Instead, she is murdered in the famous shower scene, a shocking twist that changed horror cinema. The character who becomes closest to a final girl in Psycho is Marion's sister, Lila Crane. After Marion disappears, Lila begins investigating what happened to her. Like later final girls, she becomes determined to uncover the truth. She follows clues, enters dangerous locations, and ultimately discovers the identity of the killer. Lila shares several traits with later final girls identified by Carol Clover. She is smart, curious, and resourceful. She survives long enough to uncover the secret at the center of the story and becomes the audience's point of identification during the film's final act. The climactic basement sequence, in which she confronts the truth about Norman Bates, resembles the later slasher convention of a female survivor uncovering the killer's hidden identity. But, womp womp, Lila is not a fully developed final girl in the modern sense. She does not defeat Norman herself. Sam Loomis physically restrains Norman before he can attack her. This is one of two Sam Loomis, Sam Lumai that are gonna steal the thunder from Final Girls.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna say I've never put that together, that it's the same name.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. This means that, like many gothic heroines before her, Lila uncovers the threat but relies on a male character for the final rescue. That's why I said womp womp.
SPEAKER_00What a jerk.
SPEAKER_02Psycho is important in the history of the final girl because it helped establish several elements that later become central to slasher movies: a psychologically disturbed killer, a focus on female victims, suspense built around a dangerous house, and a surviving woman who discovers the truth. Right? So that's really a precursor to slasher films, but these things go hand in hand. Many scholars view Lila Crane as a transitional figure between the gothic survival heroines of earlier literature and the more independent final girls who would emerge in such films such as The Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Halloween. In that sense, Psycho occupies an important place in the evolution of this trope. Marion Crane demonstrates that the apparent heroine is not guaranteed to survive, while Lila Crane provides an early example of the investigative surviving female protagonist who would become a defining feature of later horror movies. But let's talk a little bit more about the Texas Chainsaw Massacre from 1974.
SPEAKER_01Do we have to?
SPEAKER_02I don't love this movie. I know people do, and we're gonna talk about it.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I I want to bring up that due to an upcoming episode that we cannot discuss just yet, I've had to watch Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2.
SPEAKER_02Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01And I was really stealing myself for this because the first one, like we both agree, it's one of the hardest movies to watch.
SPEAKER_02Especially like the beginning. I mean the whole thing, but yeah, especially the beginning. It's like deeply uncomfortable for me.
SPEAKER_01Uh, I mean, yeah, the the the the dinner scene, my god. However, the second one gets so silly, so campy, it's not a reversal of direction, it's just they really lean into just like this is like a bunch of silly killing.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think that's what all these slasher franchises figured out, right? Like they all get silly and campy. And Texas Chainsaw, I think, realized like if they want to continue to make sequels, they've they can't all be very difficult to watch.
SPEAKER_01Sure.
SPEAKER_02People want to have fun.
SPEAKER_01People especially girls. That that's all it just it's very fresh in the mind because I just watched it.
SPEAKER_02Perfect. Sally from the Texas Chainsaw Massacre is widely considered one of the first true final girls in horror cinema, and one of the most important predecessors to Lori Strode in Halloween. Throughout the film, Sally and her friends travel through rural Texas and gradually encounter Leatherface and his family. One by one, the other members of the group are killed, leaving Sally as the sole survivor. This structure became one of the defining features of the Final Girl archetype. A group is targeted by a killer. A single woman survives after witnessing the deaths of everyone around her. Sally also embodies many of Carol Clover's Final Girl traits. She is resourceful, alert to danger, and determined to survive. Once she realizes the threat she is facing, the film shifts almost entirely to her struggle to escape. The audience experiences much of the final act through her perspective, a technique that would become common in later slasher films. Unlike many later Final Girls, however, Sally does not defeat the killer. She spends much of the film running, hiding, and trying to escape. In the final scene, she survives by fleeing Leatherface and climbing into the back of a passing pickup truck.
SPEAKER_01And then we get to see him just like whoa swing his chainsaw in the air and do his little dance for like half an hour.
SPEAKER_02Leatherface remains alive, and Sally's victory is survival itself, rather than the destruction of the monster. This distinction is important because Sally represents an early version of the final girl, and later characters will fight back more directly. Sally's role is more focused on endurance. The film's famous ending, in which she escapes while laughing and screaming hysterically, emphasizes the psychological cost of survival. She has escaped, but she is clearly traumatized by what she's experienced, which I think is like an important, you know, an important piece of this to take with you. There's a book called The Final Girl Support Group by Grady Hendricks, which I highly recommend. I really loved it. And I think this point sort of like the premise of the book is what happens to the final girls after they survive. And he changes, right, the identities of kind of like the most famous final girls and plays with like how how the trauma has affected all of them differently. And it's a fun read, even though it gives you a lot to think about. So I this is you know, the ending of Texas Chainsaw makes me think of that too.
SPEAKER_00Sure.
SPEAKER_02Another early slasher example is Black Christmas, which also came out in 1974. Jess Bradford from Black Christmas is an even clearer example of the archetype than Sally, some would say.
SPEAKER_01Do we need to talk about Black Christmas? I know these it's it's too scary.
SPEAKER_02These are important to the history of what we're talking about. It's too scary, Abby. I know. I don't I really don't like the phone calls in Black Christmas.
SPEAKER_01I I just find the movie painfully boring.
SPEAKER_02I don't find it boring. I feel like Black Christmas and Texas Chainsaw are similar. And it's interesting because also in a little bit um to when a str the original When a Stranger Calls, it's like some of these early movies that kind of predate the slasher boom are to me. way harder to watch than like a Halloween or a Friday the 13th because there's something very personal. Like to me they feel like um things that could happen, I guess.
SPEAKER_01That makes sense.
SPEAKER_02Or like they're they're just there's some realism to them.
SPEAKER_01And just well just like real life, they don't necessarily follow formulas.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And like you know the the follow-ups I guess are more my speed. Sure. Even though they're more graphic or equally as graphic. Like Sally, Jess is the last major female survivor of a group targeted by a killer. Throughout the film, members of her sorority house are stalked and murdered by an unseen attacker known known only as Billy. As the body count rises, Jess becomes increasingly aware that something is wrong and begins trying to understand the threat. The audience experiences much of the film through her perspective, especially during the final act. What makes Jess particularly significant is that she possesses again many of these traits that Carol Clover defined. She is smart, independent, observant and willing to challenge authority figures. Unlike some earlier horror heroines, her character is not defined primarily by romance. One of the film's central storylines involves Jess's decision to have an abortion despite pressure from her boyfriend Peter, emphasizing her independence and personal agency. Black Christmas was unusually progressive for its time, because it presents Jess's decision to have this abortion as her own choice rather than a moral failing or tragedy. Think about dirty dancing, right?
SPEAKER_00Sure.
SPEAKER_02When Jess tells her boyfriend Peter that she is pregnant and plans to have an abortion she is direct and confident about her decision. The film treats her choice as an expression of bodily autonomy rather than something that she should feel ashamed of. Jess also actively investigates the danger around her. She takes a threatening phone call seriously, notices suspicious behavior and attempts to protect herself as the situation becomes more dangerous. This makes her more proactive than many earlier gothic heroines, who often discovered the truth only after others intervened. At the same time, Black Christmas predates the fully developed slasher formula that would become standard after Halloween. The film's ending is famously ambiguous. Jess survives the immediate events of the story but Billy is never caught and the final scenes suggest the danger may not be over. Unlike later Final Girls, who definitively defeat or escape the killer, Jess's survival remains uncertain. For many horror historians, Jess is one of the strongest candidates for the first modern final girl. Black Christmas was released only a few months before the Texas Chainsaw massacre and Jess combines traits that would later become standard in the archetype. She is the primary survivor. She recognizes the threat she investigates the mystery and the climax centers on her confrontation with what she believes is the killer. If Sally from Texas Chainsaw established the image of the lone survivor fleeing unimaginable horror, Jess helped establish the image of the intelligent resourceful woman who actively tries to understand and confront the threat. Together the two characters laid much of the groundwork for Lori Strode and Halloween and the many final girls who followed it's quite impressive. Alright Alan let's get into some movies that you like how about that I like Halloween you make fun of me for how much I talk about Halloween but this is important for this topic.
SPEAKER_01When have I ever made fun of you?
SPEAKER_02Almost every time I bring it up you sigh deeply it's not true. Film scholar
Early Horror Films Set The Pattern
SPEAKER_02Carol J. Clover argued that during the final girl's confrontation with the killer the audience's perspective shifts. Earlier in the film viewers often see events through the killer's point of view but by the climax they are encouraged to identify with the final girl as she fights for survival. She is also frequently shown using a weapon often one with symbolic masculine associations to defend herself. Such as a clothes hanger well I mean Lori's a little she has a knitting needle and a clothes hanger right they're not but she also ends up with the butcher's knife.
SPEAKER_01Sure.
SPEAKER_02What's like the most masculine horror weapon that you can think of chainsaw?
SPEAKER_01A chainsaw is masculine?
SPEAKER_02More masculine than a knitting needle.
SPEAKER_01Uh I think Freud would disagree. Why? Anything that impales would be more masculine than something that cuts.
SPEAKER_02But I mean a chainsaw is phallic in its shape.
SPEAKER_01Sure but it slices.
SPEAKER_02So you think what about a knife though?
SPEAKER_01A knife slices you are entering the the the sanctity of someone's body you know against their will.
SPEAKER_02Well I mean with either with either weapon really sure. Clover suggested that many slasher films of the 1970s and eighties reflected the expectations of a largely male audience. According to her analysis these films created a character who combined traditionally female and masculine traits. The final girl experiences fear and vulnerability but she also becomes active and confrontational in the final act. This shift allows the audience to support her survival while still fitting within the common gender conventions and horror of that era. The ending often leaves the killer's fate uncertain or suggests that the threat may return. This unresolved conclusion becomes a common feature of the slasher genre and helped set up for future sequels. It also led to future development of final girl characters across multiple films, allowing the trope to evolve over time. Lori Strode from Halloween is often considered one of the most influential final girls in horror history.
SPEAKER_01She's pretty good.
SPEAKER_02While earlier films featured surviving female protagonists Halloween helped popularize the slasher formula and brought the final girl archetype to a much wider audience.
SPEAKER_01You know it'd be such a fun reboot of the series what if Jamie Lee Curtis and Michael Myers switched Freaky Friday's Yeah that would be so good.
SPEAKER_02Oh man that would be so good. And then he has to like go to work but she doesn't work right she like lives in a bunker at the end.
SPEAKER_01That's true. At the end you're right well no if it was like uh maybe they just they remade the first movie oh back in the 70s? Yeah it's like uh yeah somehow um and then like Michael Myers has to do babysitting and make popcorn he has to carve the pumpkin with the kid he's probably good at carving that's true yeah that's true I I think she would be really bad at killing people.
SPEAKER_02Well she she she'll get there. I know but she's pretty loud you know she's not really a sneaker she does moan a lot I guess when she runs just because she's so scared.
SPEAKER_01Yeah I I feel like you know if she's quieter than her friend. If she jumps out at somebody and they scream she's gonna scream back.
SPEAKER_02I feel like she would I feel like she'd get smart.
SPEAKER_01Yeah she does get smart that's true. That's true now yeah I mean she doesn't have to though she can she's so strong.
SPEAKER_02Oh right right there switching bodies too.
SPEAKER_01That would be really funny I I yeah I just don't think she would master the the the slow deliberate walk she's more she's more of a sprinter. Yeah she's which is actually kind of terrifying when you think about it. Like a really Michael Myers but just like really fast.
SPEAKER_02Well I guess we don't know if the slow walk is a physical limitation or a choice that he makes because if it's not if it's a physical imitation then she couldn't walk faster.
SPEAKER_01There's a later movie where we see him go fast. I can't remember which but like it's a I don't know maybe it's like one of the Rob Zombie ones or something.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But I remember it's like a it's a surprise that you see him go so quick.
SPEAKER_02Yeah I mean that's horrifying. Throughout the film Lori is portrayed as responsible observant and cautious unlike her friends she notices signs that something is wrong long before she fully understands the danger.
SPEAKER_01What do these bodies hang on doors mean?
SPEAKER_02She repeatedly sees Michael Myers watching her from a distance and senses that she's being followed. As the threat becomes more and more obvious the audience increasingly experiences the story through Lori's perspective making her the emotional center of the film. Unlike Lori, her friends do not recognize the danger around them and dismiss her concerns. When Michael finally makes his move Lori proves to be resilient. She protects the children in her care, escapes from several attacks and fights back when necessary. She uses ordinary objects like we said a knitting needle and a coat hanger to defend herself. These moments become defining features of later final girls who often survive through quick thinking and determination rather than physical strength. It's also important I think Lori we mentioned this a little bit but Lori is kind of the epitome of this quote unquote pious final girl where her friends are drinking they're having sex they're partying when they're supposed to be doing other things she ends up babysitting the kids they're supposed to be babysitting right and they're the ones who die. And her who is portrayed as virginal and sexless to quote mads earlier she survives. Well the kids survive I know the kids also survive but I'm saying there's a bit of misogyny here to say like oh if you have sex you deserve to die and we're not going to kill Lori because she's virginal so she's worth more.
SPEAKER_01Yeah it's it's such an established trope and I I really wonder why.
SPEAKER_02Well I think it's because of that. I think there's this like undertone of misogyny. It's to say if you're engaging in those things then your death is is less meaningful. As the slasher genre evolved during the 1980s some final girls became more proactive in confronting their attackers characters such as Ginny Field in Friday the 13th Part 2 and Nancy Thompson in a nightmare on Elm Street actively develop strategies to defeat the killers pursuing them. Lori represents an earlier stage of the archetype. Her primary goal is survival. Rather than hunting Michael or creating a plan to destroy him which she does in later films she spends the climax trying to escape, protect herself protect the kids and stay alive. The film's ending also reflects this early version of the final girl. Lori does not defeat him herself. During the final confrontation again another man named Dr. Samuel Loomis arrives and shoots Michael several times the exact amount of times that he shoots him is contested causing him to fall from a second story balcony. When Loomis looks over the edge moments later Michael has disappeared. The scene allows Lori to survive while preserving Michael as an ongoing threat and of course unlocks the ability for sequels. Unlike many later final girls who achieve a clear victory over the villain Lori's success is simply enduring. Lori's importance comes not only from her survival but from the influence that she had on the genre. After Halloween the image of a young woman facing a seemingly unstoppable killer became one of the defining conventions of slasher films. Many later final girls would become more aggressive and self-reliant but Lori provided one of the clearest and most influential examples of the archetype. Her smarts, resilience and ability to survive overwhelming danger helped establish the foundation for decades of horror heroines that followed. Alice Hardy from Friday the 13th is another incredibly important example. As the sole survivor of the original Friday the 13th Alice helped establish the final girl as a standard feature of the slasher genre. And she's also an interesting I guess somewhat similar to Texas Chainsaw where we see the the impact, the psychological impact that this had on her while Lori Strode and Halloween helped popularize the archetype, Friday the 13th demonstrated how the formula could be repeated and expanded. Throughout the film, Alice is presented as an ordinary camp counselor who becomes increasingly aware that something is wrong as her friends disappear. By the end of the story she is the only survivor left at Camp Crystal Lake. Like many later final girls Alice discovers the truth behind the murderers and becomes the focus of the killer's attention during the film's climax. I think this is important. I think it's like something I've been saying but I just want to clarify there's
Slashers Define The Final Girl
SPEAKER_02this quality with some of these final girls right this is what Lila Crane sort of originated Lori Strode does this where Lori at one point rips the mask off Michael and kind of we get to see his face for the first time.
SPEAKER_01He doesn't like that.
SPEAKER_02He doesn't and similarly Alice discovers right she's the one person who finds out who this killer is in the first Friday the 13th movie. It's Michael but there is this like quality of all of these a lot of these final girls of discovering the truth or or the intentions right and being the sole person with that information too. Alice is also notable because she actively fights back against the killer. She defends herself during a prolonged confrontation. The climax ends with Alice decapitating the killer making her one of the earliest final girls to directly kill the villain rather than simply escape. This helped establish a pattern that would become common in later slasher films, where the final girl not only survives but also physically confronts the threat. Friday the 13th was a major commercial success and helped turn the slasher film into one of the dominant horror subgenres of the 1980s well yeah when you make a movie for like seven dollars as long as you sell one ticket you're good. Yeah but these like both Halloween and Friday the 13th were made we have series on them but were made for very little money at the beginning and just like made millions and millions back.
SPEAKER_01And I will say they Friday the 13th did a really pretty good job of having a long through line uh throughout the series. Yeah. Uh and obviously you know things get a little wonky or get rebooted or whatever but they continue from the original mythos pretty well. Halloween probably has a deeper one despite the fact that Halloween three doesn't even have Michael Myers. So ignoring ignoring that but like I you're talking about how like you know just a camp counter that becomes like a hunter later. It becomes pretty thorough.
SPEAKER_02Yeah yeah it's true it's a good point. I that's I think one of the things about these franchises that are fun like when we sat down and watched all those for those series of the first of all these franchises are very like backstory light and then they get to kind of fill it in as they get budgeted and all that. And of course it's ridiculous but it's fun. Ginny Field in Friday the 13th part two from 1981 develops the role further by using intelligence and psychological tactics to defeat Jason Voorhees. Nancy Thompson in a nightmare on Elm Street from 1984 became one of the most proactive final girls researching Freddy Krueger and creating a plan to fight back against him. Other examples include Chris Higgins in Friday the 13th Part three from 1982 who survives Jason's attacks and fights back during the final confrontation and stretch in the Texas Chainsaw Massacre Part 2 from 1986 who faces Leatherface and his family directly these films again evolved the character even further they almost become like Nancy Drew's right they become like Nancy Drew? They become like a little bit more like investigative I would say. Well they become proactive not reactive yeah exactly in Alien from 1979 Ripley begins as the warrant officer of the Nostromo and becomes the last surviving member of the crew after the alien creature kills the others. Like earlier final girls she notices danger before others do. She adapts quickly and she uses whatever tools she has available to stay alive. However, Ripley differs from many earlier examples because she takes command during the crisis.
SPEAKER_01She attempts to enforce safety procedures investigate the alien threat and ultimately confronts the creature herself so I think we can see pretty clearly the evolution here right you have Lori who just survives Lori Sally Jess Bradford right they just survive they endure they get through it then you start to have some of the the people that we just talked about in Texas Chainsaw part two and Friday the 13th part three who again become like Nancy Drews they're investigating they're proactive and then you get Ripley right and it's like a whole nother thing Ripley is is not just there to survive she's there to like fuck shit up right yeah yeah she is but in Ripley's defense you know she's she's not some action movie hero her best option for survival um is to go on the offensive you know the a a good defense is a good offense you know there there is no escape she's stuck on this uh spaceship yeah so there's no level of avoiding or hiding that's going to be a long-term solution yes but there's also just like something different about Ripley than Lori Strode right no sleeves but like Ripley in it not to like whatever reduce heal but like Ripley is jacked she's more masculine she's less feminine if we're thinking about these things in a binary and she has a cat.
SPEAKER_02She has a cat and and what's interesting that we know because we did the the series on Alien the character was originally written as a man and it was swept switched out. So I think because of that there's just less of the like standard traits right because it was written differently.
SPEAKER_01Yeah which I I'm I'm still very torn about yes the the original character was intended as a man but then like when they swapped to Ripley being a woman they didn't really change much.
SPEAKER_02That's what I mean.
SPEAKER_01Right. And so it's like was it because it was written as a man or was it because it was like just a good character that was gender neutral.
SPEAKER_02Right well I think that's like what it comes down to it's like more films like that like more films where the gender I mean I think gender is important and all these things and you know identity is important. But like they're just more films where there's less of a binary please or more films where we follow the same formula please.
SPEAKER_01Yeah I I it does I'm I'm thinking about the overall final girl trope and how it's probably just a lot easier for an audience to watch a woman go through all this hardship.
SPEAKER_02Exactly because they're misogynistic.
SPEAKER_01Because they're yep I I'm thinking about like what is a similar situation of person trapped in situation with creature. Um but it's a man. I'm I think of uh predator. So you have the predator aliens or the the yao ja that's a fun word. Uh I I don't know where that actually comes into play if it's just if it's if it's in the movies or just lore or whatever. But yeah you have a whole race of aliens that just hunt for sport. But you have a similar situation of very predatory thing lone person who has to survive and decides to go on the offense. And like there, you know, there's a lot of close calls in Predator. But you know I'm I'm thinking of like the when Ripley has a close call you see you you see her like you know freak out I'm trying to think remember she actually cries or not but she's like clearly panicking at certain points.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01At no point do you see Arnold Schwarzenegger cry in in panic right uh just because it's uncomfortable to watch such a masculine figure go through that.
SPEAKER_02Well we need more of that.
SPEAKER_01We need we need softer men.
SPEAKER_02Exactly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah I I just I don't know if if I really wonder had a man done the performance of Ripley as originally intended would the movie be successful? I don't think so.
SPEAKER_02What I wonder is if a man played Ripley just as it was played right where maybe there's panic and they cry if you as a human being would have cried more than once in your lifetime. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01We'll see.
SPEAKER_02Would it have given you permission?
SPEAKER_01Hard to say.
SPEAKER_02By the end of the film, right by the end of Alien, Ripley is not simply rescued or escaping by chance. She had actively defeats the Alien and ensures her own survival. Ripley's character helped redefine the Final Girl by showing that a female horror protagonist could be a capable leader and action hero. Sarah Connor in the Terminator from 1984 represents another major shift in the Final Girl archetype and I know it's not horror. We're gonna move past it. At the beginning of the film Sarah is an ordinary young woman who is unaware that she is being hunted. Like many earlier final girls she is initially vulnerable and must survive an unstoppable threat. However, as the film progresses she transforms into a more active survivor she learns the truth about the Terminator from Kyle Reese. Again very Nancy Drew of her adapts to the danger and ultimately destroys the machine pursuing her.
SPEAKER_01What do you mean Nancy Drew of her she just did Kyle Reese just tells her everything.
SPEAKER_02I don't know he's like here's how it is and she's like that's not true and he's like trust me and then the terminator just like fucks shit up and she's like I believe you now well she got there right unlike earlier final girls whose stories ended once they escaped Sarah's survival becomes the beginning of her transformation into a warrior figure which is explored further in Terminator 2 Judgment Day one of Alan's favorite movies.
SPEAKER_01It's so good.
SPEAKER_02Both Ripley and Sarah Connor are significant because they push the final girl beyond the boundaries of the slasher genre. They evolved the trope from survivor to hero. Jumping ahead to 1996 to Scream and self-aware horror that plays with this trope even more because it's aware of it, right? Sydney Prescott from Scream represents a new phase in the development of the final girl. Released after the peak of the 70s and 80s slasher boom scream both followed and challenged the conventions established by earlier horror films. Sydney is aware of the rules of the genre because the film itself comments on slasher traditions but she is not simply a passive survivor. Throughout the film she investigates the murders questions the people around her and confronts the killers directly unlike earlier final girls who often survives through Escape, her character also becomes important because she continued to survive across multiple films, making her one of the most enduring final girls in horror history. Scream helped revive the slasher genre in the 1990s By combining traditional horror elements with self-awareness and created a model for final girls who are both survivors and active participants in their own stories. There's also a few academic debates among film critics and historians around how to talk about this trope, right? So I want to talk about some of that. Some critics later expanded on Clover's idea with the concept of the final woman, describing survivors who continue beyond the original horror event and develop as full protagonists. The term final woman is a later concept used by some critics to describe a broader evolution of the final girl. While the final girl is often defined by surviving a specific horror scenario, the final woman emphasizes characters who continue beyond the immediate threat and develop as complete protagonists, right? So like Lori Strode over the course of a hundred movies. The final woman is not only someone who survives violence, but someone who gains agency, independence, and control over her own story over time. Characters like Ripley and Alien, Sarah Connor, and Sidney Prescott are often discussed as examples of this evolution. The difference can also be understood through the character's role in the story. A final girl is usually defined by the horror event itself. She is the last survivor of the killer's attack. A final woman is defined by what happens afterward. She survives, changes, adapts, and continues to exist beyond the trauma. The shift reflects a broader change in horror, where female characters move from being primarily victims who survived into protagonists who drive the action. However, the terms are not mutually exclusive. Many characters can be both final girls and final women. Again, Lori Strode, for example, begins as a final girl in Halloween, but later films such as Halloween in 2018 and its sequels reframe her as a final woman by focusing on her life after the original attack and her continued fight against Michael Myers.
SPEAKER_01You've seen the new screams.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01Does Courtney Cox return?
SPEAKER_02I think she does, yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's fun.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think the this some of the new screams are great because they they give the audiences what they want. You know? That's what we we want in a franchise. Scholars have argued that while the final girl was an important step in giving women central roles in horror, the classic version of the character often reflected a narrow idea of who was allowed to survive. Carol J. Clover's original analysis of the Final Girl primarily focused on white, heterosexual women in the 1970s and 1980s slasher films. Critics have since examined the limitations of this model, arguing that horror cinema often positioned white women as sympathetic survivors, while women of color were more likely to be killed, marginalized, or placed in supporting roles. One major area of discussion is the black final girl and the underrepresentation of black women as central survivors in horror. Critics have pointed out that black characters
Halloween And The Pious Survivor
SPEAKER_02in classic horror often had different narrative roles than white final girls. They were frequently absent from the final confrontation or killed before the climax, reinforcing patterns where whiteness was associated with survival. Films like Knight of the Living Dead, with characters like Barbara and Ben, are often discussed in relation to race and survival. Later films such as Candyman and Scream 2 contributed to conversations about expanding who can occupy central roles in horror. Another part of the debate focuses on whether simply changing the identity of the final girl is enough. Some scholars argue that diversity should not mean placing different characters into the same traditional role without examining the systems and themes around them. A more diverse final girl can challenge older horror conventions by bringing different experiences, cultural backgrounds, and perspectives into stories about survival. Modern horror has increasingly experimented with expanding the archetype. Characters such as Adelaide Wilson in Us, Grace in Ready or Not, and Mia in Evil Dead have been discussed as examples of newer survivor heroines who do not fit the traditional final girl model. These characters often have more complicated motivations, identities, and relationships to violence. There is also debate around the idea that the final girl itself was originally a complicated figure.
SPEAKER_01What do you mean?
SPEAKER_02Clover argued that audiences, regardless of gender, are encouraged to identify with the final girl during the final confrontation. Some scholars have questioned whether this framework applies equally when the survivor is not a white woman, suggesting that race and cultural context influence how audiences interpret vulnerability, fear, and survival. When looking at where the final girl trope has evolved to now in horror, one major change is that modern final girls are often active participants rather than passive survivors. Characters like Eren, in You're Next, who uses survival skills and tactical thinking to turn the tables on her attackers, and Grace again, in ready or not, who actively fights against the family hunting her. I'm also thinking about I forget her name, but the character in the menu.
SPEAKER_01Oh, with the eyes.
SPEAKER_02With the eyes. Another major development is that the final girl is now defined by trauma in what happens after the survival. Earlier slashers usually ended once the killer was defeated or the survivor escaped. Modern horror frequently explores the consequences of surviving. Lori Strode's later appearances in the Halloween franchise are a clear example. In Halloween, Lori is no longer simply the young woman who survived Michael Myers. She is a character whose entire life has been shaped by that experience. The story examines how survival can affect identity and mental health. And, in a great way, modern horror has also expanded who can be a final girl. The classic archetype was largely built around white heterosexual women. But contemporary films have introduced final girls with different racial, cultural, and gender identities. Again, Adelaide Wilson and Us, Sam Carpenter and Scream represent different approaches to survival and identity. In the Babaduke, Amelia is a survivor of grief and trauma rather than just a monster. In Train to Poussan, Sue Ann's survival complicates who gets to be the final survivor. In the girl with all the gifts, Melanie is a very different kind of survivor. Another evolution is the idea that the final girl does not always have to be traditionally good or morally pure. The early archetype was often associated with being cautious, right, separate from the behavior that led other characters to their deaths. Modern horror has challenged this idea by creating survivors who are flawed, angry, traumatized, and morally ambiguous. Characters like Danny and Midsummer and Pearl and Pearl complicate that idea that the final girl always must be pious. Some scholars also argue that the final girl has expanded into the final person or final survivor. Films like Get Out and The Invisible Man place survivors from different backgrounds at the center of horror narratives, while focusing on themes like abuse, power, and social control. Another example, Jordan Peele's Get Out challenged traditional ideas that the final girl has to be a girl by centering Chris Washington, a male survivor whose story uses many of the same conventions isolation, discovery of a hidden threat, and a final confrontation. Overall, the modern final girl is less about simply being the last person alive and more about how a character responds to fear, violence, and trauma. The archetype has expanded from the lone survivor running from a killer into a broader symbol of resilience, resistance, adaptation, and reclaiming control after an experience designed to take it away.
SPEAKER_01Well, Abby, what what kind of final girl do you think you'd be?
SPEAKER_02Do you think I'd survive?
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_02Really? You don't think so?
SPEAKER_01I don't know. You're pretty you're pretty scrappy.
SPEAKER_02I think I could survive. I think if it was like Mike Myers, I could survive.
SPEAKER_01Okay, it's it's you and Michael Myers. Yeah. So I mean, yeah, Mike Myers is much easier than Michael Myers.
SPEAKER_02Oh, the actor.
SPEAKER_01He's kind of funny.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Uh, but m you versus Michael Myers.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01You're in a factory.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01What do you do?
SPEAKER_02Is it an active factory?
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_02Abandoned. Abandoned. Is there any electricity?
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02I put him through the machines.
SPEAKER_01You put him through how do you get in there?
SPEAKER_02I put a banana peel on the ground.
SPEAKER_01Ooh, classic. You bugs bunny on them.
SPEAKER_02Been watching a lot of Scooby-Doo lately, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Smart. So you you go you go all Nancy Drew on his ass.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Nancy Drew, Scooby-Doo, Velma, and I get him right through the machine, and then we flip him upside down, we take off his mask, and we realize that he's the owner of the factory all along.
SPEAKER_01Yep. Smart. Oh, you're three steps ahead.
SPEAKER_02He's just trying to get some kind of tax incentive.
SPEAKER_01Is it isn't he always? Sorry, that that's a spoiler for Halloween four. I would also like to shout out that if you would like a Final Girl experience of your own, you can play the hit board game series Final Girl.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's true. That's been a fun board game series.
SPEAKER_01Yep. It's technically a solo board game. Yep. But we just play it as a team. And then you just make all the choices that you would as a final girl.
SPEAKER_02And it's fun because if you get into it, there's tons of different like versions so you can play like multiple times.
SPEAKER_01Yes, they they've made expansions for basically every horror IP there is out there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, exactly. Alan, I can't ask you how you would survive, I guess. But I mean, do you think you'd survive?
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_02I don't either.
SPEAKER_01Not a chance.
SPEAKER_02You're too.
SPEAKER_01I would at best I could provide the banana peels. Actually, just bananas, you would have to peel them.
SPEAKER_02I think you're very smart, but I don't think that you adapt well.
SPEAKER_01We're talking about it.
SPEAKER_02You're not very observant.
SPEAKER_01I'm very observant.
SPEAKER_02I guess my question for you is do you have a favorite final girl?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Ripley.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Okay, what about next?
SPEAKER_01I really enjoyed Ready or Not.
SPEAKER_02So good.
SPEAKER_01That's a very fun one. I'm excited to see the sequel. Yeah. Yeah, like again, it it we've talked about my my personal favorite trope. Someone is hunted for the majority of the movie by the Indomitable Monster, and then at some point they just say no more and then just like, you know, arm themselves and go to town. I love that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, that's very fun. The Final Girl has changed dramatically since the days of early Gothic heroines and 1970 slashers. She began as a survivor who outlasted the killer, but she has evolved into a character who investigates, fights back, carries trauma, and sometimes becomes the force that defeats the threat. The final girl remains one of Horror's most recognizable figures because she represents the genre's ability to explore fear, survival, and resilience through its central characters. The Final Girl has endured because she represents one of Horror's central questions. When faced with impossible fear, who are we who are we capable of becoming? And I just want to take a second to call back to those quotes from our friends at the beginning because I just think it's it's the case with a lot of this that final girls, as with anything else in life, right, can mean multiple things to somebody at once. Like for me, I love that there's women in horror, that women are centered in horror. Of course, there's there's issues with that, right? But generally, I love that there's women centered in horror. I think there's room to expand that to include more diverse stories, but I love that part of it. And I like, I think we're evolving in the right direction broadly. But I do think with horror, right, like there either is a survivor or there isn't. You know, which just means a large number of movies, especially if they're following a slasher formula, will result in women survivors.
SPEAKER_01Even if you kill the big bad, either you get out of there or you don't. You know, I'm thinking of like the thing, where at the end they just decide to like, well, we're just gonna take everyone down with us. Right. Uh, just to make sure that there's no trace of the monster ever again. Joke jokes on them. But yeah, to your point, it's uh it's having just one person survive makes it effectively like a close game.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Uh where
From Survivor To Action Hero
SPEAKER_01you know it cut came down to just that one last person. If they killed just one more person, then there'd be no survivors and the killer would have won.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And I so I think like because so many films are just going to organically tell that story, it's really the responsibility of the filmmakers, especially with where we are now in society, to decide how they handle those characters and how they portray those characters, right? And are need to be consciously aware of all of those things. Thank you so much for being here, especially with our 200th episode. And if you somehow haven't heard the ad running on this podcast network, you can watch Voices Carrie, a movie that I co-wrote and co-directed on Tubi for free right now. And um, I would say it does not follow the Final Girl trope, so.
SPEAKER_01That's a spoiler.
SPEAKER_02Maybe.
SPEAKER_01Maybe not.
SPEAKER_02Maybe not. All right, bye. Bye.
