What Really Matters Interviews

WRMI 002: Interview with Artist, Author & Social Media Maven Lori McNee

March 17, 2016 Doug Greene
What Really Matters Interviews
WRMI 002: Interview with Artist, Author & Social Media Maven Lori McNee
Show Notes Transcript

Lori McNee is an artist, author, teacher and social media rock star.  She's also one of those rare people who seamlessly dances between creativity and business.  All these areas are explored in this interview.  She also gives her top tips on learning how to do this yourself.

spk_1:   0:03
Hi. Welcome to what makes them tick where you can learn life lessons from extraordinary people and use them in your own life. My name is Doug Greene. I'm an author, interview and videographer in this podcast. I'm interviewing Laurie, Make me on how she's mastered the skills of social media to feel an incredibly successful fine art business. She'll also reveal what drives her and why she does what she does. Hi, my name's Doug Greene. I'm an author, writer, photographer and really, what I consider myself at my heart is an explorer. I love to learn what makes things tick and how they why people are the way they are. And it's really my pleasure to have on our show today. What makes them tick. Laurie, make me. She's a artist. He does oil caustic. What is it? Coco sticks in caustic in costume. I'll explain later, and she's an incredible artist that lives in Sun Valley, Idaho. But in addition to being a very creative artist, she's also a very successful marketer and entrepreneur, and that's a rare combination from my experience. That seems to be a very rare combination, and artists lots of artists out there and a lot of starving artists. Not a lot of really successful artists. Laurie seems to be able to bridge both of those worlds with E. She seems to be Justus, comfortable out of nature. Painting a river or wildlife are a mountain scenic as she is creating programs, digital programs and being on video and speaking to groups. She seems to move back and forth with Justin ease that I find really intriguing. And that's what I want to explore today. So first of all, Laurie, thanks for joining us.

spk_0:   1:51
Thanks for having me, Doug. Hi, everybody. And I thought we'd first

spk_1:   1:56
explore the creative side. How did you get into? It's the art that drives all of this really right at the core. That's what came first and then the market. Absolutely. So why don't we deep dive into the art for fairly quickly? And how did you get into art? How did you You know what motivated you to become an artist? First of all?

spk_0:   2:15
Well, my parents said they always remembered me being an artist as soon as I was born basically and holding a crayon in my hand and doodling and that sort of thing And then, as I got a little bit older, we went on. Nature hikes a lot with my parents on the weekends and and I grew up in Scottsdale and we go out pottery, shard, hunting and things. So I was very intrigued with nature. That's one reason why I love nature. And then growing up, going to my grandfather's in Colorado had a ranch, so spend a lot of time in nature there. And then I loved birds from Ah, you know, as long as I can remember, Scottsdale is a burning mecca, and, um, and we would flood the yards with water instead of have a sprinkler system, and all these beautiful birds would flock to our yard. And I was very intrigued with them, and my sister and I would try and go out, capture them, and we'd nursed the injured birds back to health. That would hit our windows, of course, and, uh, and then, um, finally decide to capture them on paper. And I've been drawing and painting birds ever since. So you was there a moment for you,

spk_1:   3:26
like when you started drawing and was like, Oh, sometimes people haven't Ah ha moment when they discover something that they just feel that they're meant to. D'oh! Did you

spk_0:   3:37
have one of those

spk_1:   3:38
who's this to something that came in gradually?

spk_0:   3:41
Well, you know, I would say it came and gradually, but I got some recognition in high school goes So after I had lived in Scott's. Still, we moved to San Diego for my teens and and I still continue my art and took our class. And in high school I entered a contest at the Del Mar Fair and I won first place at a whole county for Drew, a Marlboro Man loving the Old West. But I won first place, and from there I had some interesting things happen where businesses were asking me to draw, You know, different things for them, and it just might career started taking off at a young age. It gave me confirmation that I

spk_1:   4:27
should be doing this. So you were doing commercial work too?

spk_0:   4:31
A bit a young age, yes.

spk_1:   4:32
So would you consider that to be more like graphics? And

spk_0:   4:36
no, it wasn't. In fact, I'm not trained in graphics. It was definitely fine art. They would have me dio portrait of maybe the president of ah, business, that sort of thing. So it was more fine. Art. Well, okay. Yeah.

spk_1:   4:52
And how did that? You know, what's the path that

spk_0:   4:56
I know? And so I did not major in art because I was told Oh, you know, that naysayers out there, right? And so I majored in business. And then I got frustrated with business, and I ended up, um, of being a liberal arts major. But then I got married and started families shortly thereafter, and ah, my career really blossomed during kids nap times and in between loads of laundry. So, um, back then, while life art was very popular and, um, in its heyday And, um and so to keep myself motivated, I'm a big goal oriented. And so I would enter different competitions. And back then, the duck stamp competitions, trout stamp competitions, that sort of thing. We're very free. Ah, popular. And so I entered those I never won, but I did get honorable mentions a few times in third place and that sort of thing. But, um, and and then I also did some illustrations for some books and, uh, the nature Conservancy and ducks and blended And so I worked during my child. My kid's childhood, doing that type of artwork.

spk_1:   6:11
So it was partly what at least drove. This was the recognition.

spk_0:   6:16
Yes. Okay. Yes, a little bit. I think I enjoyed that. Talk about that. Oh, no. Yes. So well.

spk_1:   6:27
And also what frustrated you about business.

spk_0:   6:32
Okay, math, you know. Oh, so, um well, is it as a kid growing up in Scott's? And we moved when I was 12 years old to San Diego, and Scott still was a pretty conservative place back when I was a kid and I went to school every day wearing a little pleated skirt and and cute little patent leather shoes. And then we got whisked away, moved to Southern California, which was, you know, very it was kind of I don't want to date myself, but it was early seventies. So you know what it was like in California in the seventies. And I came to see the first day of school in junior high, wearing my little pleated skirt. And boy, I went home and I'm like

spk_1:   7:23
mom shopping. I can't

spk_0:   7:26
go back to school like that ever again. So I had a hard time in junior high and even the first few years of high school. It was like I was literally pigeonholed. And, um, I had a horse and I had my art, and I had my sister and I have neighborhood friends. But I wasn't accepted in my own community of students. And so there's probably a little bit of that, I don't know. They just were until I matured. And then, um because that was a slow mature, too. So I think about that. I was just, you know, a little skinny little wavy gal. And ah, And then once I got into high school, then I blossomed, and then all of a sudden, I I ended up popular, and so it was kind of it was interesting and I was very shy. I mean, it was so hard for me. If I got called on in class, I would turn beet red. I couldn't get up in public speak. Um, it was very difficult. So I've had to overcome quite a bit of things to get to where I am right here, right now.

spk_1:   8:33
So for the last wealth, up till now, you've always been painting right when you were married, you paying it And it was

spk_0:   8:41
started painting? Yes, Um, when I was married. Really? When I started painting and I got married in early twenties. So I've been painting since my early twenties and it was an acrylic painter because I didn't want anything toxic in the house for the kids because my studio has always been in my home. Still is, um, so I used acrylics, which you don't need solvents in that sort of thing. And then from there, as, um, I started painting in oils in 2000 and ah made a shift and went from wildlife into landscape and and and then my still life painting. And then things really start to take off from there.

spk_1:   9:22
Wet drove you into each of the different genres, like wildlife. And then,

spk_0:   9:27
yeah, that's that's a really good question. Well, again, you know my love of wildlife, which I still have, and it was also very popular. And, um, by the late nineties, wasn't it was falling out of fashion a little bit, and it's not that I necessarily was following that trend. It's just I was ready to make some changes, and I started to get bored of, um, just painting animal portrait it's or you're drawing birds and animal portrait. And so I wanted I was more interested this point in their environment. So I started taking planner painting classes and things like that to understand how to capture the landscape and then make the animal secondary to landscape, which is what I do quite a bit now, Um, And then, uh, and then from there, I took a workshop with Robert Moore, who's a pretty well known artist in, um, that I heard the Idaho area. Excuse me? He shows here in Sindh Valley with me, and, uh, he had a still life Ah, workshop along with a landscape work, shopping. And so I took that. And it just really captured my attention. And I started painting still life.

spk_1:   10:43
So your motivation has been more what's coming from inside of you than what the outside world is saying. Hey, this is what we could sell. Or would you say it was both? Did you see that? The band out? Were you, um, driven by what you could sell?

spk_0:   10:58
I think it kind of I think it comes from inside, but I am. I watch. And, you know, my little marketing self was already going on back then. And my dad, um, I come from family of entrepreneurs and ah, and I am a good sales person. And when I was a kid in high school, I was like the top sales person for the Limited in the State of California. And Limited is a popular womens womens store. And so I was the pace setter, which means they other salespeople at this chain of stores had to try and keep up with my sales. And so and so I have a knack for that. And Dad always said, Sell yourself. You know, you don't have to sell your product, you're selling yourself. And so basically I've always known that. But at the same time, it's kind of like psyching out the professor or whatever you know, and just kind of scene. I would like to see what people are interested in, and if it interests me, then I will. I'll do a little bit of that, but I definitely like Thio paint from the heart. So were your what did

spk_1:   12:13
your father do or your parents do with a marketing people? Business people um,

spk_0:   12:18
yeah. Um, Dad, he was a mortgage banker back when I was a little kid. And then he's gone into real estate development, Mom and Dad down together. And ah, so they've done quite well with that. And, you know, just they they deaths, thinking of writing a book about his adventures because they started from very modest beginnings. And, uh, they've been become quite successful on Mom. Unfortunately, is not here any longer, but he's still working.

spk_1:   12:49
So would you say that your father was a pretty big influence on you and that he was a strong supporter?

spk_0:   12:58
Oh, definitely. My my parents both were, um, have been my biggest supporters. And Dad still is my biggest fan. Yes.

spk_1:   13:05
So they've right from the get go. They were encouraging, and they never said anything. Just like you couldn't do this. It's always

spk_0:   13:13
so It's always I could do anything I want. I just had to put my mind to it now, Okay. And I really do believe that.

spk_1:   13:21
Yeah, I get that. Okay, let's talk about the marketing side. So you're so you're painting. You're obviously putting out. I'm gonna assume you're putting out a fair amount of our work is like, Okay, now we need to sell this. Yeah. So let's talk about that other track with selling track the marketing track. How did that develop? And how did you you know, how did you get started first and then maybe some milestones along the way. Some key moments,

spk_0:   13:50
Yes. Oh, there there are some that stand out in my mind. Um, in about the year 2000 I had been, you know, So back in the eighties, I was in Neil and Gallery, which still represents me here locally in Sun Valley, and I just was in there for a short time. My kids were very young, and I couldn't I was not prolific enough back then. So I pulled out and just kind of honed my craft for the next, um, almost well, 15 years or so And so by the year 2000 I was working on a Siri's one summer. I took a look planter plant plan air painting box with me wherever I win, and I drive my kids to soccer, whatever lessons they'd have. And while they're out doing their lesson or coaching, whatever's going on, I would open up my little paint box, and I do a quick, half an hour paint study and by the end of summer had about 100 little six bait paintings and ah, girlfriend of mine came over to my students, said Laurie. These are really good, I said. Really goes, Yeah, they're really good, she goes, Why don't I show them for you? She had a cute little store in town and I said, Okay, that sounds great. So I framed up those paintings, and I also threw in a couple still life paintings that I had been dabbling with very new. It's still life and one still life painting. I put a little bird on the face and I decided to go back over and talk to the gallery, Direct Kneeland and said, Hey, you know it. I haven't shown in 15 years, but I have a series of work that is hanging two blocks down the road. Would you go peek at it and she went looked and she came back and she said, I want to show you want to give you a show and and so um so that's kind of how the whole gallery of getting back into the gallery world started.

spk_1:   15:40
Okay, so they would sell your art work. Now, what about you being a marketer? Let's talk about that. How did you get into, um, whatever it is that you do that you market. I know you're on social media, but I'm something there. Some other. I mean, if you were selling, if you were the record sales person at the store on your kid, those skills were still there. And

spk_0:   16:01
yes, they were. They were little dormant, is all, you know, but But they're I sold myself to the gallery, right? You know, there again. And so she took my work, and things were going really well until about the year 2007. And I found myself suddenly divorced after 23 years of marriage is marriage and three kids. And, um, it was very devastating to me, but I was in a situation that would not have been a good thing to stand for the rest of my life. So I got divorced and and shortly thereafter, 2008 was what our crash of the market basically here. At least you know for sure the real estate market took a big tumble in in Sun Valley and the galleries started feeling the pinch from that as well. And so instead of feeling sorry for myself, I was thinking of a way to kind of reinvent myself. And and, um, in 2009 I By then I had been on Facebook. I had joined Facebook and just kind of a way to keep tabs on my kids and kind of connect with old friends that you really didn't want ever see again, you know, and and, uh, my kids were mortified that I was on Facebook. But I remember at the time seeing a little blue bird tweet by right and birds always capture my attention. So I'm like, What is that? And it said, What are you doing? I think it was the tagline. What are you doing right now? Something like that. And I'm like, What does that mean? That looks so stupid. So I just kind of put that aside. But then I met a friend, um, who introduced me the idea blogging, and it really intrigued me, and my brother knew a little bit about it. And so he helped me set up my first blogged, and I already have my website. Laurie, make me dot com. I've had that, but a blogged was different. And so I started fine art tips and I started blogging and I launched it like you with five pillar pieces of content because I did my research and understood what I needed to do to make my blog's sticky and all that. And all of a sudden I'm blogging. I'm like, who the heck is ever going to find my block? You know who's ever gonna buy then, all sudden being I remembered that little bluebird. What are you doing right now? So I went over, I signed up and I started tweeting out. Here's what I'm doing right now. I just wrote this block post boom and it took off. I literally took to it like a duck to water. I have, like, you know, in your question here it wasn't an eight. It's justice, innate. I've totally understood how to use where, and it was back before it was visual it all. We only had 100 40 characters, and now it's so much easier to use and it's still confused people. But But anyway, that's how that all took off for me. And within a couple of years, I was one of the top 100 women on Twitter, so it's been pretty cool. So talk about

spk_1:   19:03
this innate feel of how this works. What do you it be cool to dig in it? Some people don't have that. Okay, I understand

spk_0:   19:11
that I don't. So my sister doesn't. I'm trying to help her because she wants to be this podcaster like yourself. Just don't get it. But she's very good at interviews. So what is it

spk_1:   19:23
that you feel or sense or what informs you that this is what you need to be doing?

spk_0:   19:32
Well again? Yeah, That little need to be seen. I guess in some capacity, wanting my blood to be found wanting my message ticket out the world. I wanted to get my message to help other artists. Not that I'm like the most knowledgeable artist in the world is I'm not. But we all know something that others don't know. And I being a professional artist for over 20 years. At that point, we're nearly 20. I can't remember exactly, but right around 20 years at that point, I knew I had a lot to offer. And, um and so I started sharing my tips and and then tweeting and and sharing ideas on Twitter, finding my own voice. It's just like finding your own artistic voice. You find your own social media voice, and and And I had a natural aptitude for branding. I just knew how to brand myself and, um, back then, Ah, you know, before a profile picture. People didn't even know what they were doing back then. And then we figured out okay. It's so I had a picture of myself kind of a profile of me painting, and and then that didn't feel right. It felt impersonal. I wasn't looking at the viewer. And so, um, I had my son really quickly snap a picture man like Craig Craig, stop free. Go out with your friends. We take a picture me really fast, cause Mom, please, please. So I threw on red, and, um, I threw on my blue apron and a hat, and I held my paintbrushes and I went like this, and that was very iconic. And I got a lot of traction out that because ah, war uniform. So my profile picture was a smiling face, which is proven to get like, I can't remember the stats, but five times more click throughs than a logo. Um, and I had a uniform which ride away a little tiny 80 by 80 profile picture you can tell right away. Okay, that girl is an artist. She's holding her paintbrushes. Got a little goofy hat on Scott apron on. And so right away I start branding myself and also choosing a twitter handle. Back then, um, I was at Lori McNay, and as soon as I kind of rebranded myself, I went at Lori McNay and I tagged on artists. And as soon as I did that, I started getting all these people following me because right away they could time an artist and doing something interesting. And so it really took off from there.

spk_1:   22:04
Wow. And you just kind of felt this.

spk_0:   22:08
Yeah. You know, I know just enough color psychology to be dangerous. And so I knew that red is like a power color and and blue, you know, presidents and policemen. And you know where because it's off, um, comfort authority, that sort of things, some knowledgeable. And then the hat wasn't Indiana Jones hat, and it's so it subconsciously stood for adventure, right? And then the paintbrushes. So it worked. And in fact, they still use that picture in quite a few magazines. That because I'm an ambassador and sponsored by some different paint companies and and they'll use that same picture quite a bit that my son took. I

spk_1:   22:52
know. I've seen that picture. Um, I have a lot of you. I have seen it. Yeah. No, I see it all over the place, actually.

spk_0:   22:58
Yeah, it's been around since 2009. Okay, so, um, let's talk

spk_1:   23:07
about your lifestyle a bit transitioning back and forth from artists to marketer. Do you sometimes find that you'll go into artists mode for days or weeks on end and be deeply in that world and into uni transition Time to goto marketing? Or can you just like, boom? Okay. Today I'm a painter, and then tomorrow I'm lip

spk_0:   23:26
a switch. D'oh! You know, I'm probably somewhat cursed by being a gem in eyes, so I have a lot of interests and I'm very good at multitasking, which I know isn't totally healthy for us. So I'm working really hard at being in the now and being very present like I am right now, I'm not in the back of my mind thinking what I need to be doing after this talk. Um, but so that's That's my goal. I've created a bit of, um, of a daily schedule, which is still pretty loose, but I know what I do in the morning and and generally speaking, I get up and I kind of read and center myself a little bit. And I'll quickly check my social media after I've done Cem personal reading and and working on myself and and ah, getting balanced. And then I start my business day for a little bit. And then I generally go to the gym for an hour, or I go for a hike or something like that. And then I get back and I get in my studio and I'll work, although I haven't been in there this whole week, but I'll generally paint for a bit and take a lunch break and then paint for a little bit more, and then I'll do more of the, um, online work and that sort of thing, sometimes into the evening. Sometimes I'll paint in the evenings I find that if I work too late, my mind has a hard time slowing down when I try and go to bed. So I'm trying to be a little bit better about not working too late.

spk_1:   24:59
So you have a ritual more or less that you

spk_0:   25:03
a loose ritual. Yes, Yes, yes, I dio

spk_1:   25:06
Would you say that? Didn't you talk about that?

spk_0:   25:09
I think it's really important because being basically a freelance person like myself, you have to have a sense of discipline and structure. And so although I am flexible and I'd em sponged, I'm kind of a complicated person because I am a spontaneous, flexible person. Um, yet I have to say no to things. I'm learning how to say no more all the time because you can't take on too much. Um, you spread yourself too thin, which I suffer from that quite a bit. And, uh, and when you have goals, you have to be focused in you. You mom always said, um, scatter your fire, you won't hit the mark. And so that's an old, shocking analogy, you know? And so if you're shooting for the mark, you don't want to just so So I'm doing my best to hone in on my top, um, most important skills and the ones that I get the most o r o I from

spk_1:   26:17
So speaking of our Oh, I what have you identified to be those beacons for those things that you get the best o r a y on both as a artist and as a

spk_0:   26:30
well, it's interesting because I've gotten with the social media blogging writing career because it also, you know, I've got this little book right next to me. It blossomed into also where I'm a writer from my blogging. I write for magazines, I write for other books, and now I have my own title Fine Art tips with Lori might need from North Light books. And it's an honor to write from that for them. And I have other book ideas in here and and so this would never have happened without my art career. So, um, there. But I could almost forget being an artist and take off on this whole other business and do just fine. But my first love is the art. Um, an art is like my art is my boyfriend and art has been there when I've been lonely and sad, Just like my animals, by the way, and been there through good times and bad times and always is there for me And is that feeling that you said you get when you're out there taking photographs and that sort of thing artist One of the only things that really brings me into the now toe where I could paint when I'm in the right sound and three hours Congar Oh, by And it feels like five minutes, you know? And so I know that that's an important thing for somebody, especially like myself. That's very busy, so I am finding a bounce between it all.

spk_1:   27:59
Okay, so one of the milestones on the let's go back to the, uh oh, yeah, focus your attention.

spk_0:   28:04
Where did I go with that? So the r o I want or where else don't What did you think

spk_1:   28:11
that you So we were talking about, uh, basically making the most effective use of your time, right? Not getting to scatter. We were in shot versus later. So part of the process of laser news knowing what to say no to eso knowing what to keep your aim on, right? Exactly. So I question I think I really have. Is what do you keep your aim on? Um, what are the big beacons? Or the North stars in both your art world and in your marketing world that you, you know, you might come off course with that. Oh, no, I need to get back on. And then what do you point your compass? That so to speak.

spk_0:   28:52
Yeah, well, that's a good question. So I generally, you know, of course, I need to make money. And it's I always tell everybody that compensation comes in many forms. So it doesn't mean that every single thing I am doing is I'm getting paid for by the way, um, but it the return on that time, investment generally will indirectly bring me in money. And so, um, I kind of, Ah, I look at something and decide if that eventually will happen. Or if it's if it's beneficial to a big group of people or, um and and will benefit me. I will say yes to certain things like that. Um, but I want gallery events, a couple gallery events year with notable galleries and other kinds of exhibitions and then speaking engagements. I like taking on a couple of big speaking engagements with a big organization. Um, that also helps with my own influence and that I'm helping whoever. Whomever's listening to me. So that's kind of what I've been focusing on.

spk_1:   30:06
Okay? On the marketing side, when you're deciding what to write about Onda, Um what market to go after and tagging on all of that. Um, how what do you How do you make your choices on what content to put out on who to address it, Thio and what keywords to use and how to organize the structure of the content. Things like that.

spk_0:   30:31
Well, used to s o if we're speaking about, like, blogging, I used to blogged, um, I'm not a daily blogger because I don't have the time to be able to do that. And I don't have an assistant. I do everything I do on my own. Um and so I blogged once a week until recently, and now I've cut back to twice a month and, uh, and I'll hopefully get back toe once a week here pretty soon. But I'm going to be a grandmother pretty soon and my daughter is getting married and two different kids, by the way, the other one is married and having a child, And, uh and then I bet. And then I've got a ah, budding actor that I'm helping down in my son down in l A. And so I'm I'm still very much involved and busy with my adult Children and their bounce back kids at times, which means they come and live with me from time to time. But anyway, what was the question? Where was I going with us? I go, I digressed. So how

spk_1:   31:32
Thio, How to keep your eye on the ball? What? Content to write, How to plot. No, you're Nichia. Yeah, well content. I don't mean the block, but But I just think, you

spk_0:   31:43
know Well, when When you say content, I'm kind of thinking of how I think about the proper content. So for me, when I'm putting out content generally is coming from my block unless I'm writing for, um, a publication. And they generally ask me are ah, they have an idea of what they want me to write about, But my block I have control over, obviously. So, um I I call it the cadence of a blawg, and I kind of like to stagger the cadence. I don't want too many back to back social media posts or marketing posts. I I want it to kind of the It's It's It's your storefront, a blogger's your storefront and and it's like being a good Merton izer in, um, in retail, which I was in right as a kid or a teenager and college student. And we would always change the front window, and we may not get a whole new shipment of new closing, but we'd make it look fresh once a week and even multiple times we'd go in and change the mannequin and in the same person that walks past their everyday might look in the window, go and come on in. And so that's a key to try and do that with your block and and I I do my best to do that with my blog's to give people new content to come look at, and that keeps me vote motivated and keeps me fresh with new ideas. Who's your How do you use your

spk_1:   33:16
niche market? You know how you talk about avatars they talk about Who's your ideal customer? How do you who is your ideal customer? You know, living.

spk_0:   33:28
I'm lucky because I feel like I have a broad audience. And, um, again, it's because I'm diversified. And so I am an artist who I believe most people like art and solo. I feel like it doesn't matter if you're a businessman or woman or, you know, insider outside my own niche. I feel like I have something that might be fun for them to look at while they're surfing the Internet. And so I feel confident about that. Um, artists, generally in my opinion, make the mistake of just trying to connect with other artists. And I think that shortsighted because they need to remember Thio go outside the art niche because, like I said, they're they're collector's. Sometimes, yes, they are other artists, but oftentimes they're not and reach out to designers and decorators realtors and and so I teach artists to reach outside their niche. Now that being said, it still is important to understand your niche and, um and so I have a couple different niches, I guess, and also blogging in social media because I I share a lot of that kind of content, especially on the Internet. And so I network with lots of big bloggers, lots of social media influencers off which I'm one ous well, and so that's almost a whole nother subculture and a whole nother niche. So that's kind of complicated. Probably complicated answer. Yeah. How do you,

spk_1:   35:01
um, psyche of working with other bloggers? You create content for them, they create content for you Or what is that,

spk_0:   35:10
well, content creation sponsored content? That sort of thing is actually a way to monetize a blogger, which I d'oh. I invite guest bloggers sometimes all invite someone has quite a bit of cloud out there in the world to come block for me. And they're grateful Thio log for me and get, you know, new traffic because that's a way to get discovered is, you know, on someone else's blogged. And so I do that and then also, um, I will people will pay me to blogged, um, and also, uh, they'll pay a two block on my site. So that's one way that I monetize is through sponsored content. Um, but it's a great way to network. It's like my folks for a while. We're in the fast food business and they owned some Burger King's into coma area. And one thing is Burger King. McDonald's are always right next to each other. And so you go down any fast food lane, and the competitors are just right there, right next to you. So it's a healthy competition. And if you learn Thio give back, which is Social Media is about we it's not about me. And so if you kind of keep that mantra in mind and just be willing to help others, you're not gonna receive with a closed fist, so to speak. So when you open up, help others you're able to receive, and this world the online world is actually really loving space. I like it a lot, and, uh, people are very embracing and kind and generous and, uh, embrace it ve and so and it's very beneficial. So here's one of the

spk_1:   37:03
things I found intriguing about eeny a gram results from you. And, um, just to let people know that they're the anagram is a personality typing system that breaks it down into nine distinct personality types, of which you are at your core one, even though you may show tendencies of the others, That's actually the motivation underneath that you're looking for. Laurie scored very high on 1234 actually crossed the board. I believe that you're probably a two, which is called the Nurture. But you have strong wings. Wanted the one wing is the perfectionist, and the three wing is thehe Cheever. So you have this nurture and you also your subtype was There's three subtypes. You're either focused on the crowd focused on maybe one other person or focused on yourself. Your top scoring was on social. So you already have this. What that informs me is you like to nurture. You are very focused on the on the group, Um, versus just one person. So you're thinking kind of socially pretty easily and, you know, which makes sense based on how well you're doing with social media, Um, your three side likes to win to achieve and be seen and recognized your one wing houses perfectionistic side skeet, you know, which could be that, you see, like there is a very specific way to do it. He often get a body sense of. This is the way that should be achieved or this is the way things are. The three wing, the three can't stop. They believe they just kind of innate we get. Here's what I need to do. Here is the goal. Here is where I am and I'm a movement. But yes, and they just make it happen so that it's a really intriguing combination. And I think it actually helps explain some of your qualities. Yeah. Ah, uh,

spk_0:   39:15
we're together. I thought that was interesting, too. But I think it was pretty accurate. And sometimes I, um, nurture and help to the point of hurting myself almost cause I give so much myself. And that's where I'm learning to say no more and that sort of thing, because I don't like to disappoint others, and I love toe help and watch people succeed. And eggs gives me a lot happiness to see that I've helped someone else's life in some way be better or, you know, for the room long in their career, whatever. And so So I'm I'm learning that banri for myself.

spk_1:   39:59
Um, the shadow side of the two can be that they give to get if you're an unhealthy too. You might Yes. You'll be able to sense what people need even before they dio Yeah, Annual you can provide a This is an unhealthy to now, which I don't think you are. But this is what can happen. They give. They know what they need within themselves at an unconscious level, but they can't voice it, so they'll give it to somebody else with the expectation that that person will give it back to them.

spk_0:   40:33
Oh, right. No, I don't do that. I don't believe I'm coming from that

spk_1:   40:39
space at all. You are. You

spk_0:   40:40
know, I feel like I am full. I feel like I, Emma vessel that's filled. And I want to share what I know and have with others share my light, so to speak. And I also sense so

spk_1:   40:56
that you may have a pretty good the capacity to intuit what others do need, even if they don't know. So

spk_0:   41:05
yes. And that's true. Yes, but not because I am. Um What's the word? I'm looking for trance like I'm trying to get because I need that too. Yeah. What's the word I'm looking for?

spk_1:   41:22
Well, the shadow side or something.

spk_0:   41:24
Yeah, but transferring um, no Projecting. Protecting That's the word.

spk_1:   41:31
Yeah, yeah. No, I don't think you are there. You know, you're a healthy too. I think that, but the gift is still there. This ability to intuit kind of sense feel into what others need, um, and see it. And then when you say, Oh, okay. I sense that this would help that person out And then to be able to consciously make a choice, Is it worth my time? Does it serve me also to do that than to move for right?

spk_0:   42:03
Well, it goes back, Thio saving those little baby birds that needed help, you know, And I'm the type. If I'm in a grocery store and I see an older person having trouble pushing their grocery cart in the snow in the in the road, I always go help. You know, I just like to do that. It I am happy. I feel like that was in front of me, and I'm there to help, and I want to, and and I want to be that type of person because I think the world, you know, people are so busy that sometimes we forget to help our fellow person along the way, and I don't want to be that type

spk_1:   42:41
of person. And here's another about the two, um, the nurture when they go to their heart point when things were really well, they move towards the four, which is the creative side. So my guess

spk_0:   42:52
No, I wish I was sort of the foot. Or

spk_1:   42:55
while I think that you show a lot of the four. The creative side you're are good. Yeah. Bring out the best of the four.

spk_0:   43:03
Yeah. So okay, next in it. And one last thing on that is going from ahead and making the decisions from the heart rather than the head. I'm really focusing and being mindful of that, too. So what does that feel

spk_1:   43:19
like when you make a When you know that you're making the right decision from the heart? I'm ahead type. So I don't is not my world.

spk_0:   43:27
Yeah. Um, talk. It's an inner knowing without having the doubts and more of a calm knowing that it just it's a feeling it feels right and the head kind of questions and has maybe a bit more anxiety about things, and and, uh um over analyzes. So talk about

spk_1:   43:50
the feeling Can you dive in deeper, Maybe find specific areas where you feel that like, Did you feel it in your and your got your heart? Your

spk_0:   44:00
Well, it's almost like a calmness. It just kind of comes over you a sense of peace in a way. And this is honestly a little bit new for me to allow myself to get in touch with that, because I've been, um, you know, very busy and been through some anxiety through the years and heaped on too much in my life. That's caused a sense of stress in my life, and I almost set times and possibly addicted to it even. And it's not healthy, and I don't want to do that anymore. And I want to be more calm and get in touch with my heart center. And I know what that feels like, and I am learning that now. And so it is a calmer, warm feeling that comes over you when you know you've made the right decision and you feel good about it. Okay, um, finally, let's talk

spk_1:   44:58
about some tips you might have for other artists that are looking Thio be more successful with their marketing and their branding. Okay, talk about, you know, let's just get pragmatic. What are some tips that you would have? Maybe top three tips for social media Top three. For Let's say, if you look at the things that have been most successful to you, what would be the top three first places to go and then,

spk_0:   45:28
well, the other question. Okay, go ahead. The

spk_1:   45:31
other question to that would be to help them find that kind of inner space within them. To be able to do that, it's one thing to do it. It's another. You know, that's the external part, all right. And where you succeeded is being both. So how can they bridge top three tips on bridging those together, being an artist and being a successful marketer. So let's start making up three tips first. Okay, what to do

spk_0:   45:59
line, so to speak. Um, well, Twitter just really changed my life, and, um and I don't know that it is the necessarily appropriate for every artists. And so one thing I saw people wanna see them about social media is it is not a one size fits all. And I think it's really good to get on all the big platforms and just jump in. Get your feet wet. Don't be afraid. Spend a little bit of time getting to know the different platforms. And within a couple months you'll know if you have an aptitude for it. If if you're enjoying it, if it's not enjoyable, don't do it, you know. And I would say that, um, I am such a big proponent of it. If if this person that we're speaking to out there is interested in being a professional artist or, um, entrepreneur, uh, or even part time and making some sales and branding themselves and marketing and that sort of thing, they should have a social media, um, present because it is the now and it is still it's not going anywhere for a while. A lot of people were hoping it would just go away, but it's not going to for now, it is definitely here to stay. So I would say, you know, being visual, um, the visual platforms of the best instagrams huge Facebook and Facebook still hanging in there doing really, really well and I would say Pinterest Pinterest is really an amazing platform. Um, the pin life left Ah, lot longer than a tweet. Twitter is the quickest way to brand yourself. Get your message out to the world. But some of these other platforms have a longer shelf life. And so, um, and they're they're not as fast moving, and so they probably are more appealing to an artist's that doesn't want to spend as much time on the Internet. Okay, yeah,

spk_1:   47:59
let's tip one social media

spk_0:   48:02
so so more about social man and then blogging. So Okay, so a lot of artists and small business owners, which we need to think of ourselves as, um, make the mistake of not having a website, a blogger themselves. And so it's great to be on these social media platforms. However, we do not own her own content when we're there. That means anything you upload to Facebook. Facebook can decide if they don't like it. And if you notice any of you that have been on Facebook for quite a while, you don't see your timeline of your friends and things. You're not seeing the post that used to see you don't see Johnny come by as often as you used to us because their algorithm has changed, and they control it. And they put up what they think you're gonna like and what is popular and and what message they want up. And they do this on your fan page a lot. By the way, if there's a lot of rules you have to be careful with, so have your own blogger Web site. Because that is what you are in charge of and make sure you back it up. I've been hacked three times and almost lost everything. But because I had two backups, I was able to get it back. So always back up, um, and have your own blogged besides social media. Okay. And then you're just And the third tip Do you want it about self media? Um, business, sir. You know, be successful. Artist. Yeah. You know, I've been thinking about that, you know, it's just so important when I was wanting to be a gallery, you know, represented by galleries, and it's okay. I want that gallery now. And I want that gallery. And you kind of put your, um, you know, put the spotlight on him. It is much better to create A If you can some kind of report with the gallery or make sure that they really like your work. Because in the past, I like this one time There was this husband and wife that owned a gallery in Park City, and the husband loved my work, and the wife was so so about it. But he talked her into taking me on, and, um, I kind of talked her into 20 come on, give me try. You know, because I really liked this calorie. Well, it didn't go well, you know, and And I learned a really valuable lesson and and I don't believe yes. It's one thing to sell yourself, but you want them to feel good about what, their mind right or what the you Your gallery is promoting you and they you want them to believe in you there. Your agent. You want them to get behind you and believe in you. So don't push on a gallery unless they are very excited about having you. So that that's a valuable tip I've learned and then hang out these air few extra then but, um, hang out with people who are 100% supportive of you. Don't hang around naysayers because being on artist or creative entrepreneur can be somewhat risky in the eyes of someone that's more traditional and and has a 9 to 5 job. And so, um, you know, hang around people that really believe in you. And and I wrote down a little something here. What did I say? Oh, because you must believe it to achieve it on. I love that because first you have to have faith in ourselves, and then you have to believe in yourself before you can achieve it. If you don't believe in yourself, you will not achieve it. You have to see it to believe it, and and you have to believe it to see it basically. Really? So it all works together. You have to have faith in yourself. And if you have people kind of tearing your dreams down, that makes it hard. And, um, another important tip is, uh, learn how to handle rejection. None of us like to be rejected, and I almost have gotten to where I've been fueled by rejection in a way, because as a kid I was rejected a lot, and it hurt me badly. And now I've built up a tolerance for it. Toe where it's like, OK, so maybe I can't go through that door. But there's another one right over there. You know what I mean? And and Edison, I think Thomas Edison, Didn't he say something like Now I know 10,000 ways how not to make a light bulb, right? And I mean, I'm paraphrasing, but But basically that that's huge. Learned how to deal with rejection, and it's gonna happen on the Internet to we get negative comments mean little tweets, and you just kill him with kindness. Anything

spk_1:   52:50
else you want to say?

spk_0:   52:52
I think I've said a lot or you're a little bit like Barbara Walters. I've shared a little bit more than I expected, But, um, I hope somebody out there learns a thing or two.

spk_1:   53:07
I think they will. And if people want to find out more information about you work and they do that,

spk_0:   53:14
that's very good. Um, okay, some I blogged is fine art tips. And here's my book, which you can't see because I'm not being videoed anymore. Am I, um, fine art tips dot com and Laurie mcny dot com is my website, and you can see my art there And all my tips on fine art tips dot com and then on Twitter. I'm Laurie McNay, artist on Twitter, and my fan page on Facebook is Lori McNeil and finer tips. Um and

spk_1:   53:48
I might add that the way you spell Laurie, make me Lori McNeil is L o r i m c n e yet Florey with an eye and McNay with the a c not a c and gnaeus Just n e.

spk_0:   54:04
Yes. And you can always google me and find all kinds of interesting things out there. Eso Yeah, a lot of fun. I'm having a good time. Thank you for having me.

spk_1:   54:17
Yes. Thank you. And, um so hopefully people will find out more about art through you and get motivated to get out there and see if there are to sell their own art and find ways to get more socially connected and successful. Thank you, Lori.

spk_0:   54:33
Yeah. Thank you.