What Makes Them Tick: Learn Life Lessons from Extraordinary People --- i interview international adventurer, writer & photographer about a lifetime of exploring the world and sharing her creativity through writing and photography.
Lone (pronounced "Loo-nuh") splits her time between San Francisco and Copenhangen. She also spent a lot of time in Nepal. As an adventurer, she has been a mountaineer and spiritual tour guide leader in Nepal Tibet. Her first book is called "Seeing Red" and explores her relationship and spiritual exploration.
As a visual artist and healer, she photographs women in vulnerable and unclothed states to help them drop stereotypes of how they should look and, instead, to embrace the body they have.
We cover all of this in the interview, plus she gives some of her hard-earned lessons from both her inner and outer adventures.
What Makes Them Tick: Learn Life Lessons from Extraordinary People --- i interview international adventurer, writer & photographer about a lifetime of exploring the world and sharing her creativity through writing and photography.
Lone (pronounced "Loo-nuh") splits her time between San Francisco and Copenhangen. She also spent a lot of time in Nepal. As an adventurer, she has been a mountaineer and spiritual tour guide leader in Nepal Tibet. Her first book is called "Seeing Red" and explores her relationship and spiritual exploration.
As a visual artist and healer, she photographs women in vulnerable and unclothed states to help them drop stereotypes of how they should look and, instead, to embrace the body they have.
We cover all of this in the interview, plus she gives some of her hard-earned lessons from both her inner and outer adventures.
spk_1: 0:02
welcome to what makes them tick, where you can learn life lessons from extraordinary people. My name is Doug Greene, and I'm an author, adventure and interviewer. In this episode, I talked with adventure author and photographer Lone America. She spent a lifetime finding adventure and expressing her creativity through writing and photography. Hi, my name's Doug Green and welcome to what makes them tick. I'm an author, interviewer, podcaster, videographer and photographer. But underneath all of that, I consider myself to be an explorer and a messenger, and one of the things I like to do is find out what makes others tick. What do they do? What tries them to do it? What are their lives like? Boats out there in the world and also inside themselves? How does the outside reflect what's going on on the inside? It's obvious, then, that I'd be interviewing Luna. I'm gonna watch this, but I'm gonna try Merc Merrick. I. I met her in the Bay Area when I lived in Marin County. She's originally from Dinant from Denmark, but in addition to Europe, she's lived for parts of her life in Asia and America, and she is also an explorer she's explored The outer world is a mountaineer, trekker, traveler, dancer, author, photographer. She's also explored the inner world. I could say more, but why don't I read part of her bio for you? So here's what she says on our website. At heart, I'm an explorer. I'm also a writer, visual storyteller, speaker and catalysts for leap taking, dedicated to inspiring more freedom, authenticity and sovereignty in the world. The unknown is more familiar than any place I might call home. The journey of discovery still thrills may. While most people fear change, I fear it not. The intelligence of life continues to blow my mind as I do my very best to honor the way wishes to express through me. My method seems to be explore, embody, express, evolve or die just a bit. In my work, I seek to bridge the intimate and universal, peel away the fear and frenetic numbness that obstructs authentic presence, explore the geography, is of body and soul and capture the eroticism of being are alive. In our interview will first find out more about her life, what she's done, where she's been, where she which what she's doing and all that And then we'll dig in deeper and learn more about what drives or to do all these things. What shaped her where this burning desire to explore and express life quote comes from So, Luna, thank
spk_0: 2:43
you for joining us. So that's good, Thio. Yeah, I'm excited.
spk_1: 2:51
You've got such a good laugh. I love it. It's expensive. Must be having fun in your life. Do so Perhaps you could give us an overview of your life at first. Let's just, you know where did all begin? What did this? When did this exploration part of you first start expressing itself? What was that like? Where has it taken you? And what adventures and explorations have you done because of it? And
spk_0: 3:14
kind of give
spk_1: 3:15
us the the broad scope here, the 50,000 foot view view, if you might.
spk_0: 3:21
Okay, that's gonna be sort of an interesting Ah, I'm thinking about I could do it. Sort of like a decade wise. You know, each decade, what's been going on? Well, think of the
spk_1: 3:32
milestones along the way, So
spk_0: 3:34
yes, let's begin at
spk_1: 3:36
the beginning. You're born in Denmark, right?
spk_0: 3:38
Yes. Born in Denmark, small town by by a few words. Um, And when I think back, in terms of just when did I know or when did I first experience this explorer tive part of my nature, my personality. And it's sort of interesting, because in a way, my life at that time was sort of in a small village, like a cocoon family was closed by my grand parents. So it was very safe in a way. Uh, and I remember that when I was a girl before even I went to school. The things that I were doing would be actually solitary stuff, like writing in my diary and drawing and, um, dancing. There was something about dancing, too, which is kind of fun for me to think about now because, you know, now I'm approaching 50. And the things that I love to do now that gives me probably the most personal pleasure is dancing is writing and then maybe not painting. But then there's sort of that visual thing that snuck into my life through the photography. Um, so that's sort of just a threat that I could see that those the things that I did as a kid, I am still engaged with
spk_1: 5:09
so as a kid, in a way, is a kid. You were dancing and exploring. And were you journaling, right?
spk_0: 5:14
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I am. I started journaling, and I I wanted to learn early on, I remember asking my mom She taught me how to right before I went to school and reading. And I didn't My my brother, who's older than me. I did his homework, e I was so excited about learning, but I was sort of Ah, I mean, I enjoyed being social with my family. My I love being at my grandparent's farms and cousins, and but I was actually not an extroverted person like my remember mom sometimes told me that she was trying. Why don't you go play with the neighbors? Good. No, I'm fine. I'm doing my thing. You know, I was like that until, you know, I I started going to school, and my world opened up a little bit and I became social, you know, more extroverted. Um, that said, I know you kind of want some clues as to where did the inspiration for sort of the traveling explore a tive part is coming. And I think about my the universe at that time, you know where the farms of my grand parents and on one hand, one set of grand parents had a farm that was with land and animals, and any was sort of an ecosystem. And I think when I think of that, I not only got to experience being so in tune with the season, the land, the animals that I carry with me today, a deep appreciation for animals for the land for nature and understanding that being in sync with seasons, what it's required to keep that ecosystem, Ah, thriving the animals and, you know, the feeding the people, you know, it's just it's an interesting, but I also remember it as a very sensual You know, this the the guy could still tap into the just the sound of summer. And this My my grandparents always needed to have a nap, and I would be squished in between them on this little little diva and a little couch for a nap after lunch. And just this sort of very like the whole damn farm was breathing. I remember that still as sort of a cuckoo lack of safety and sensual and physical and that visceral part that really spoke to me. Um, and then I'm good. Go ahead. No, no, it's gonna
spk_1: 7:57
say so. Here you are, on a farm. This sounds like wanting to stay in one place and being homebound. But that's not exactly what your life is looking.
spk_0: 8:07
No. Later on, when I was a teenager, my grandmother, that side of the families you like if I care, you just stayed Denmark and meet a nice boy. And you know, I have a normal life. But I was bitten by the travel book, and him and maybe the other set of grand parents on my mother's side were more dreamers and explorers and my grandfather head. He spoke French, and he'd been in the Legion, so he traveled the French Legion. Um, so he had a mystery around him, you know, like, he taught me how to count in French. And he had this globe. I remember spinning, always looking at all these places. You could go and he would take us on picnics and we would go out like he liked to go out, do stuff. And there was one place in Denmark where they built, um, the world in a lake with little islands. So each continent and country were had it had its island with flags. So you could in little boats, but also jump and bridges. You could kind of jump around the world, which was kind of a fun thing when you think about that's what I ended up doing in a way. Um, but that was, you know, the early the fascination with language and this mystery of where has where has he been, like, where did he go? Like what happened? You know, it's what They're sort of that curiosity. Um, and I think, you know, speaking about sort of the inner experience, I think curiosity, You know, I think I have a deep curiosity. Um, remember, it's a kid. There was this program on TV for kids with this guy in Danish borough yon. And it means, uh, questioning. Like the guy who questions everything s o. I think I have sort of a deep, enquiring mind. And the first time that I sort of ventured beyond, um
spk_1: 10:21
yeah. So it was your grand. It was on the It's interesting that you have on one side of the family you've got this pretty strong influence that came in and want maybe want you made you appreciate, like a deep kind of the horse. The home being in one place is kind of why I'm reading that. Orly. Yeah, having a home, like at place A sense of,
spk_0: 10:46
I mean, those that and
spk_1: 10:48
then on the left. Yeah, and then on the other side, this traveling around the world, hopping from continent to continent in place to place. That's really two energies to different kinds of energies. And it's interesting, toe. I'm curious to see how you play with those. The dance you do between those two, are we? Well, it's
spk_0: 11:12
I think it's probably if I were to look back with that particular lens. I think it's a continues dance with the paradox. It's like two drives and me that have to co exist and they don't always agree, and you know it. Some times, you know, I give in to one side, and then I have to swing back over on the other side to create a little bit of balance. And we could we could get back to that because I'm sure that that's probably part of where I'm at now? Uh, yeah. Let's let's move
spk_1: 11:44
on to your, um you know, when I sort of escape Thea Denmark, think escape the farm.
spk_0: 11:56
Well, my parents weren't living on a farm. Um, so that was more like more of a regular life going toe work and taking care of kids and making life worked for the family. And, um but, um, you know, I think I had a moment when I think I just turned 15 or something. And I wanted to go to this big musical festival in Denmark, and it's close to Copenhagen and and lots of people and alcohol and drugs and rock and roll. And my father said I couldn't go, And this was like a defining moment of claiming my sovereignty because I I ran away. I ran away and I went to this thing and I felt entirely safe. Um, maybe I was around some suspicious people, but the people that I was really connected with, I didn't feel we're out on a limb in any way s so I wrote a big letter back home. I'm old enough to take care of myself. Please get off my back. And so I was in Copenhagen for this couple of weeks. And yeah, there was around, um, at that time squatters. There was a lot of squatting going on in Copenhagen with punks. And there's some of that. But I was still sort of a little bit of that innocent, trusting girl from other part of the country because go, I didn't feel scared. Um, and I remember coming back home and going, Oh, dear, what's he going to do? Is he gonna put me into confinement forever or, you know, But, um, you know, it was quiet for a day, and then that was sort of it. That was sort of that showdown is like, Okay, you know, give me my independence and and, um and he did. So what?
spk_1: 14:03
Where to go from there. Now you've claimed your independence. You've got this desire to start. I said, Yeah, start exploring. So
spk_0: 14:13
yeah, I mean, I went Thio, you know, it was a time to both sort of look at education and what do I want to do after just high school and, uh, went into business school and that was not it for me. Um, and I went to London. There was an opportunity to go with a friend. And, um, I worked there in London. I was 16 for one year, and then her and I this sort of the high point of that whole experience, you know, of course, being in London was amazing, but I was almost too young to really take advantage of the cultural life of London. Um, and being kind of on my own with English, you know, it was just sort of humbling in a way experience, but also giving me building up the confidence to be in the world on my own. Trusting people are good. And I think Scotland really drove that home cause my friend and I went there for two weeks hitchhiking around Scotland, you know? So we were sort of out there, two girls being picked up by strangers, and, uh, but at that time, it was safe. I mean, I'm sure stuff happened at that time, too. But today I'm not sure anyone really would want to do that. Ah, but for me at the time, it was a beautiful opening because not only was Scotland like more of a highland big landscape, Denmark is sort of a smaller groom quaint. Beautiful. Um, not like big mountains Or, um, you know, some areas of Denmark a rocky. But in Scotland, it was it was sort of like a Whoa, this is big nature on. And, uh, I in the language, the Rolling R's, you know, the way they speak. And, ah, and adding where? You know, like, the old old old um, castle. I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was like, um, there was a mystery, and you could feel the historical, um, and and for me also just this deep embedded in me that the world is benevolent. I can be out there and people are good.
spk_1: 16:41
Interesting. So you Yeah, I would imagine that was a really important piece.
spk_0: 16:48
I think so. And and, you know, I haven't actually been back to Scotland since, but it's my first country love my first love affair with a country on. Then after that, you know, I was all hot. I'm going to go to keep pushing Israel, and I'm gonna travel the world. You know, I I I was turned on. I wanted to see the world, and and then at the same time, it's, you know, it's that AIDS where you you kind of need to get yourself educated. And so I did the sensible thing. I went back to school and, um, lots of things around that, but it's not really so interesting. I liked learning, and at that time, I also met my sort of first boyfriend live in. I was with for, I think, three years. Um and we went to university, um, together. And then we actually split, and I think one of them No, this was another town in Denmark that has a different style. It was more of a modern style of university at the time, because all, um rather than being on your own path and reading and lectures and exams, this was based in project eat semester. You would do a project with a team. So in that sense, it was based on you learning to the project tools.
spk_1: 18:17
And your curiosity probably loved
spk_0: 18:19
you. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. And also academic, you know, analyzing a lot of information and putting things together, you know, connected from dimensions and concepts. And you know, so it was sort of an interesting It's not if fit me, but it didn't. But in the big scheme of things. I think it really taught me to think in projects. You know how Initiating a project, An idea, A concept, investigating, researching, you know, as I do today, you know, with books or, you know, I very much like toe work in a project oriented way. There's a big inning and there's an end, you know? So that fits my personality. And I think for that reason that that experience at university was okay,
spk_1: 19:13
go to university and then it ends.
spk_0: 19:16
No. No. For what? Because this is interesting with this boyfriend. Sort of my first love. Um, he was very much a home body at the time. He had no desire to travel like he was not interested in the world. And he was happy where he waas. And I think even I'm mourn for years the fact that it didn't work out with us. But I think my soul would like No, no, no. With him, I could see the next 40 years of my life, and I could not stand it. And, um and so we split. And that was definitely not easy. And but then I took a year off from university and I went travelling in Asia with a backpack. Um, and that was another one of those eating up the world and being in the world. And at that time today, I'm so grateful. But at that time, there was no computers and iPhones or Facebook or so there was just no distractions. There was nothing of ah ah, virtual world calling for your attention and your uploads and your communications. This was you being in the moment. And,
spk_1: 20:36
uh, where did you go?
spk_0: 20:39
I went to Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Sumatra. I went to India and I went to Nepal and Nepal was sort of the pinnacle off my journey, the icing on the cake. But at that time, this was in following the 89 Berlin Wall that came down in 1990. April was when I was standing on the border of Nepal and they had closed because they were in revolution and, ah, the people wanted democracy and they had they have Akeem Kingdom or they had um so there I was after all these months, waiting to get to the final destination Nepal, you know, which was sort of the place. And, uh and I couldn't get in. Uh and I remember just arguing with the border people like, No, I've traveled this far. I'm not turning back. I want to get in there and they let me in And, um and it took me some days of waiting around in Mt. Bust ups like fields with just a cow in a Maybe here in their person, that made me a cup of tea. You know, it was just like nothing was happening out there, but I made it. Ah, slowly, over some days, getting into Kathmandu and the day I entered Kathmandu was also the day the king uh, there's a word for this, uh, but where he acknowledged the people, We're going to get their democracy. So he wasn't getting off his throne, but he was saying, Okay, we're going to establish a democratic political system. So it was a triumphant moment to enter into Kathmandu, and, uh, I don't know. I just fell in love with these people on and the demeanor, their friendliness And and again, you know, you're biking around Kathmandu, there's military all over. There's curfew. You gotta be home by seven. And you said it. But I just never felt scared. I mean, that I think about today, right? If you're in a place where there's revolution or this and that I'm I'm certain I would be a little more concerns had for some reason, the the feeling out there was never And I fell in love with Nepal. And basically I went back to university and dreamed up some excuse to go back. There is part of my studies and and I went out there for eight months. Um, it's part of my education and was working with the Danish Embassy and the development agency had sponsored some activities to help teach about how do you run a democracy? How do u boat and how does it all work? So I went with a local ah group of consultants, local academic consult, and guys, Nepalese guys out in the boondocks. And you can imagine thick cut. And you're like, What, Clash? Yeah, I'm 22 or 20
spk_1: 24:00
three. I don't
spk_0: 24:01
know how, and here I am, sitting in nowhere land in the Himalayas with three Nepalese men who will have all kinds of projection song Western women, and I think that completely stuck up in stupid. That's met many, many discussions and it ended up in some kind of drama. In the end, why? I just thought they were the most child is people I've ever met, but it was just sort of funny. Now I could laugh. But then after university, um, I actually my first job took me out to Nepal working for care international wire, a Danish, um, NGO that Ah, that sends out people in different projects in the developing world and to support. And I was working out there for, um, three years. And of course, you know, I was also in love with the mountains. You mentioned that I liked track. So I I was tracking and started to climb the little peaks off the mountains out there. And we're absolutely fascinated and also certain that one day I'm going to climb Everest, but, um, but this was through my twenties. So, you know, my twenties were very much geared to words or oriented towards Nepal. You know, Nepal was my big love affair, and, um, I kept sort of, you know, the work and I kept coming back. And then around I guess around that doesn't make sense. End of my thirties, I Let's see. Yes. So So? So here's thing. In terms of if we're gonna look at I was trying to sort of see my different decades in my life what the orientation was at that time so torn my 20 twenties was the world. It was traveling. It was Asia. And I did a lot of outdoor, uh, activities. You know, it's not like I'm a super sports woman, but, you know, I was introduced to rafting and rock climbing and tracking. And so I loved being in the nature this way, going back to maybe my grandparent's just appreciating being in nature. And, um and then there was that of the physical. It was a very sort of outward oriented adventuring, you know, exploring and also testing my own for some reason. You know, this outdoor stuff, that climbing and it was scary stuff, right? But it was sort of an external way of confronting my power, my physical power, my mental power, my psychological power. And I remember before I left Nepal, my brother and a couple other people gathered to go climb a peak that was 22,000 something, something feet so 6000 some to 6200 meters, which was kind of a big peak. So I remember climbing that peak with my brother, and we made it. And there was lots of scary moments, but coming back down, walking through the night just to Kim come down from altitude. Um, I Yeah, I remember having this big discussion with myself. What the hell is this thing about me going out there to scare myself to death? Like, wide Why? Why does it have to be so scared? Why? What is it I'm trying to prove, you know? So I was in this, and I'm saying it because we're probably gonna talk a little bit about my book seeing red. But at this point, it was at the end of my twenties, and I had started to question my sort of external type of I, you know, you could say a little bit of masculine. Um, uh, yeah, that that place to test yourself? Yes. And improving myself. And I think for one, you know, they're sort of the academic proving that my professional life realizing here I come out wanting to help develop the Nepalese, and ultimately they help me develop. It puts me learning a lot about how do you actually develop? And then on the more personal that with the big outdoors being with the guys, you know out there doing scary stuff. And, um and it was, It's It's set off the tone, I think, for my thirties, in a way, because when I came back from that track or the climb, I found this book in a bookstore called Pilgrim's Bookstore in Kathmandu. That unfortunate later on burned down, but I think they might have reestablished somewhere. If not, the earthquake took it received. Nepal has had a very dramatic lifeline, perfect from yeah, So
spk_1: 29:25
the book was right.
spk_0: 29:26
It was It was a book of this beautiful, beautiful sort of diamond shaped mountain called and then the title was a sacred mountain, and that was the mountain in far western Tibet. Monk Islas was was sacred, so you could not climb it. But Pilgrim's from Buddhist and Hindu traditions was sort of a pinnacle off your life to go there this once to circular ambulance, this mountain and set to release the Kama off a lifetime. So there's a lot of spiritual, philosophical, mythical um, connotations and meanings of that particular mountain. I was like, How you can't climb it. That sounds kind of cool. Like you could just walk around so I don't have to go scare myself, you know? But that became then my journey took me to America from there a boyfriend, and we went exploring the Western states. Ah, for about six months and him and I did not work out. You know, I had a bit more ambition, and he was really just living for his outdoor life at the time. Um, but being opened up to America was, you know, in the Western States with that grand natural Ah, the parks was sort of Wow. Look at this here. War landscape. Yeah, and being used to Nepal. You know, I what can match the Himalayas. So this was sort of like, Wow, Here's another land with amazing, huge nature where I really felt love freedom that it could breathe. There's spaciousness, and and, um so that turned me on to America. But I went back to Denmark, and then faith would have it that I was connected to a school. The Careless Pilot University. Ah, that had an outpost in San Francisco, and they actually hired me to go work for them for a year. And that brought me back to San Francisco. And this is so this was in 98 99. Okay, And this was where I then met Christian, an American in San Francisco. And instead of going back to Denmark with this school, when we close down the outpost, I went back to stay in America. But first we went to do this strip in Tibet. I took a group of people with a friend from Australia to go do a pilgrimage around this Mount Kailash into bed. And, um and I brought this love interest, all these strangers and really, I was excited to go be with this mountain and and understand a little bit about the mythology and the spiritual aspect. So that was sort of an opening also to the spirituality. And because I think all the being in nature and and being out in these unknown to Raines, you know, kind of works you in all kinds of dimensions. And I think I might have opened up a little bit to the spirituality and me and the spiritual connection with grand nature. Um,
spk_1: 32:54
the granddaughter. What does that mean?
spk_0: 32:57
Um, it's it's just granted than you like when you're climbing up on a mountain and you're standing there and you're looking out over the Himalayas and you're just a tiny speck like you're just so I think, the perspective of that, but also the almost like the oneness with that when you're out there for weeks and you're physically you're just walking Life was so simple and your breathing you kind of become one with the movement and with the nature and you're also subjected to whatever the weather and and the nature is doing, you know, So, like, there was sort of, ah, humility and understanding how you're one little speck in a big it in a big, um, theater, a brick in a big universe. Um, so the spirituality connected to going on a pilgrimage was really, really interesting. And Phil Casino wrote this book, The Art of Pilgrimage, that I also read, which is a beautiful book about using the walking, the tracking and going into these places as a spiritual practice as a meditation. Um, so I was curious about that versus the masculine. I'm going to conquer the mountain. You. So
spk_1: 34:22
here you are, on this track around Mount Kailash. You brought your love interest over there. You You're taking a group around managing that. So I've read the book, which I think is a great book. Tell us about what happens on that track. Uh, learn from them.
spk_0: 34:43
Um, I mean, a lot of things, and yeah, I say go, go read the book.
spk_1: 34:49
I don't want you don't get the whole book away, but
spk_0: 34:52
yeah, yeah, but, um, I think for me, it was definitely a a difficult situation, because on one hand there was a love interest. And I just wanna have this romantic experience. And I also want to, of course, appear together and skillful with this California guy who is very comfortable in the big outdoors. And here I am with a group of people that I don't know and who bring all their own, uh, dramas and dreams and expectations to go to this remote, remote mountain. And it's not an easy journey. So of course, these people are starting to unravel, and I knew that, but I don't think that I necessarily knew how to deal with it, Um, and you know, when people start panicking and you get into high altitude like it's sort of an interesting, um, you can't hand hold people in it. Yeah, because there's no escape. So here we are s o very interesting that there may have been the desire to go on a pilgrimage that was founded in some sort of spirituality and like some principles of being open and being in the journey and being. But here we were acting out our social dramas and not handling very well the discomfort of being in the own unknown and being out there with you can't just call up a taxi and say you want to go home. You are pretty much out there, and there's just no escape. Um, you know, we hiked. We flew to several little AARP ports, and then we had to hike for seven days. And then we were brought out to the mountain over a couple days of driving in jeeps. Um, and then we had to hike around the mountain. And then we were driving back to last for seven days. It took seven days on these very bumpy bad roads, and so it was physically, hard, emotionally hard, and the people were just in each their own way, kind of falling apart. And I was the one who we're going to keep it all together. And so there was a lot of learning, and, you know, I'm not going to give away what happens, but it was just definitely sort of understanding that you don't become a leader off a group to be liked, you know, you become, you lead the group with the with keeping everyone safe and making the hard decisions. And so that was sort of a hard thing, because I had to sacrifice what I wanted the most. So, you know, it was it was sort of an interesting And, you know, I think we came there with hopes of having our karma released and some magical, spiritually transcendent experience. But, you know, ultimately, I think we just racked up more karma.
spk_1: 37:54
There. Is that saying Wherever you go, there you are.
spk_0: 37:57
Yes. So but that that that experience and the meeting off that mountain and Justin myself, what it stirred in me. But also just the landscape out there has all these mythical spiritual, um, symbolic meaning. So that was fascinating to me And what I learned. I brought with me back to America into marriage, um, with the California guy. And, uh, I think when I finally sat down and wrote that book seeing Red Ah, woman's quest for ah, truth, power and the sacred I think I finally could finish and write the book when I had integrated over many years the lessons that was presented at Mount Kailash and kept coming up in my life forward into marriage into, um, understanding that, you know, that's home metaphor off the mountain seemed to have been played out. Even my ex husband and I every anniversary, we kind of had a thing where we had to go do something with the mountain. We had to go climb a mountain, you know? So so that was sort of an interesting thing there. Um, but yeah. Then my thirties were America and marriage. Ah, and also starting to work more independently and creatively, So there was sort of an opening into working with film. Uh, writing. Photography came in, and, um, I started the Maybe you could tell
spk_1: 39:44
us a little bit about the photography working.
spk_0: 39:48
Okay. Yeah. Yeah,
spk_1: 39:49
What were you What were you thinking about?
spk_0: 39:52
Yes, I mean, that definitely was something that came up in the thirties.
spk_1: 39:59
So we're coming into your thirties. Uh, we've got the whole Mount Kailash thing. You got the California guy. You're starting to explore more visually. You mentioned that you were moving into sort of a more independent kind of, I don't know, something. You said something about independence, and, um, yeah. So take it away.
spk_0: 40:23
Yeah. So thirties were kind of setting up a life in America which you know, another culture and other way, and then also being sort of drawn in and curious, you know, talk about what drives you. But my ex husband, we have we later on divorced. So but But he was working with the film media, and I was very drawn to that. So we and we had a desire to work together. You know, there was sort of a creative, uh, union of Yes, there was sort of this decide we're gonna, you know, go off and do all these great projects together. And so I, you know, came in and was fascinated with the visual, the film media and, you know, it always written, But here there was a different dimensions being put together in into a film. Media that
spk_1: 41:20
I When you say Fillmore, you're talking photography or
spk_0: 41:23
a video film? Yeah. Video He? Yeah. So that was sort of, uh, dive into learning about that. And then, um yeah, getting interested or more of developing a visual on autistic aesthetic developing, um, creative expressive side of me, you know, at the beginning, that was sort of Wow, Can I even do this? But but so that was interesting. And it was again drawn into by the impulse of this. I'm curious about this. You know, I come from working in the developing field, being a development associate, working with community groups and developing programs in Nepal. And then I dive into working with the caress pilots, which is more about entrepreneurship and change agents and more about developing the personal, your personal development, and being able to go out and do your project and and instigate change. That was what that was about. And then coming in now toe work with with film and movie and art. At the time, it was also very much, um, actually focused for me on still head that humanitarian. Ah, personal development, growth change that that was still kind of part of the films that we got to do were about that, you know, savings, Ira, Well, or just, you know, like, how do we How do we change? Like how do? And and some of the films we did work for UNICEF. You know, we worked on a documentary, a short one, a get a kit enrichment How he and his community was, um, trying to be a mentor for the kids, to keep them off the streets, to keep them off drugs, to keep them away from whatever else was going on there, you know? So that was an example of a role model. A young guy who wanted to nurture the potential but also protect the kids from ah from the ghetto life and give them or opportunity and safety. Um, so that was still part of the focus in a way. And then the photography for me came in. Um, you know, one thing I started writing, I actually started writing seeing Red already, then more as a travel memoir than a female journey memoir. Um, and then I also stay brought an old Nikon camera because everything at that point was already digital. And I had turned on too. The light. You know, it's like in visual storytelling in film. I I understood I was drawn to understanding the light because I saw that that was ultimately the crucial element in in expressing our o r composing or whatever you want it to express in the visual you needed to play with the light. Ally. Yeah, yeah, yes. So that was kind of my my drawing. So I brought an old analog Nikon camera and I wanted to play with black and white photography people. And I remember many years ago, back in Nepal, I had a camera that I was in love with, How I could spend a whole day sitting in a in a square waiting for that girl to turn her head. You know, like I was there was something of that that came back to me. Um, and then all kinds of other things happen very quickly. Ah, that brought me to create Lola's but wa a studio for women exploring and discovering themselves through photography and, you know, simple like things like I had made a boudoir bedroom that was inspired by my mother in law at the time, and she had a very a Nate Baroque style in her house. And I thought, I want to try that for once. You know, I'm very simplistic Danish sensibilities. Why not go to town? And and so I had a friend photographed me and I photographed her, and it was all very spontaneous. It didn't have lots of deep reflections about what we were doing, but the experience struck some chord in me. It's like, Wow, you feel kind of awkward and uncomfortable in front of the camera. But then once you start playing and it became fun and it became liberating and and I think at the time, you know, I was a couple years into this marriage and the sort of the initial romance had shifted into more off. We were two people working, trying to get life toe to work our business. And so I think I was starting to. I was in my early thirties, and I started to feel differently about being a woman in this relationship, and I think Laura's bourgeois for me became my my private space where I could be myself and reconnect to myself and also explore Ah, with the other women. What is this body? What is How do we How do we engage without sensuality? When when it's not for someone else. What? How do we even consider our sexuality? So what? I'll explain.
spk_1: 47:27
Give us some a little bit more detail about what Lulu's Lola's boudoir does. What you were filming women. But there was more to it than just the body was sort of a nun. Well, what? Your book. It was an unveiling.
spk_0: 47:41
Yes, s O in the beginning. Yes. So in the beginning, it was just fun. You know, Lola's But wa was this fun space where I could photograph the women and I would invite them to play an express different sites of them. And in the beginning, beginning it was just private in my home. And then, at some point in my life, I, um a few years later, I more and more people came to me and wanted to be photographed. So I created the business Lola's bourgeois and I created a studio in Sausalito that was very much inspired by I mean sort of French boudoir style, um, with antique furnitures and props and crazy outfits. And it was a very magical space, and that would be the place where I would photograph the women and then, you know, as more and more women came and I had it as my profession, it was a business and holding space, understanding how the camera had such a kit, catalytic or maybe even a therapeutic quality to help women, um kind of shed their shames and insecurities and all the stuff that actually comes up when you point a camera at someone and it might not be sort of a mental thing, but it's more of a physical. You could see it in the body. So I I were tuned into this and obviously had many intimate conversations and, um, encounters with many, many different women. And, you know, over the years, I started to understand more and more about what's going on with women and their relationship to themselves, to their bodies, to the sexuality and in and very image driven society. How women are caught in this external orientation of looks and being the right thing. And and rather than being Maurine in a in a relationship to yourself as a woman with your body, Um, with your soul, with your self expression, with your own definition of beauty. So it was sort of an interesting thing of using the camera. I was sort of a paradox using image making images to help undo stereotypical images that women have been force fed from day one. Ah, this is what a woman looks like sexy, whatever powerful, beautiful, and and to further women to explore their own and actually bring them back into the bodies. And so that was sort of a whole big, um, more than a decade off, working this way with women and learning more and more. And then ultimately, the last couple of years, completing that book unveiled That's About Like Almost Takes takes the view or the reader into that experience off women unveiling themselves for themselves, women being witnessed, women finding the courage to actually be seen in a very intimate way, but also seeing themselves and, um, and the awakening that happens for a lot of women when they work with me, where they find a sense of liberation, or they finally feel at home in the skin or they integrate parts they've disowned or lost along the way or lovers has taken stolen from them. What you
spk_1: 51:30
describe that process of inviting a woman into this space to explore herself, and she's probably got some fears coming in, right? And probably that big gulp like Oh my God, Well, and then the chemistry. You know, you you're providing an invitation. You're on the one hand, you're the observer. But on the other hand, you're also the invitee. Her the invite, er and have, you know,
spk_0: 52:04
what's that like for both of you? For them, Read the book?
spk_1: 52:10
Yeah, well, when it's out, I will,
spk_0: 52:13
Yes. There's actually also video on my website where some of the women and I speak about the process that it might be fun for any of this is what I am
spk_1: 52:22
interested in this part too, though. So there's this.
spk_0: 52:25
Yeah, I know I'm going to talk about it, but I just thought there's more material that's available for people who are curious that listening. They want to know more, but it may have a
spk_1: 52:33
list of the sites they could go to in all of that, but
spk_0: 52:36
yeah, so, um I mean, I, you know, sort of from hindsight, is always different than when you're in it and things are evolving. So when I look back and I sort of think about some of the things that goes into the process first this was a business or what woman would have to choose to do this and on her own time and in time, so to speak. So there was sort of a decision for her to make. And in that decision, I learned quickly that this is not something that you can. Most people have their own timing. So some woman I learned might have read an article about me and put it in her draw, and it would take her 345 even seven years before she could make the call and come see me. And in all this time, whether it's three months or seven years, a woman is in her own inner conversation about why she wants to do this, what she expects to get from it, why she should not do it, why she's not like all the other women who all look so good or why she doesn't have the perfect bodies. You can't do it. And, uh, like all this inner, she's already confronting her fear. Her insecurity has shames her dreams and her desire and longing also. So this happens before she even gets in front of my camera. Very few I mean here and there has been a person who sees, and she's like, Yeah, I want to do it and she's diving right in. So she's doing it for the adventure, the thrill of it. And then there's the other type of woman who was Maur you. It's part of her, Ah, self discovery. It's her transformation. She might want to heal her relationship to a body. There might have been some sexual abuse in her life where she never felt like her sexuality was really her own. You know, all kinds of things. Milestone birthdays before being pregnant wanted to celebrate your body the way it is now, and women later on in fifties and sixties, wanting to explore their womanhood, their sensuality that you know the sense of themselves over holding
spk_1: 55:01
the space for this toe happen. I can only imagine they're coming to you with their most vulnerable side and yet creating a container for them to do this exploration. And so it's a It's a two way. I mean, it's you know, it off obviously takes two to make this happen. Yeah, um but that I don't know. I feel the sacredness of this. How tender, How vulnerable, How fragile that space could be, too with you did something that I just did. You know, I I don't know. It's just find that.
spk_0: 55:39
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I see what you mean. And obviously because I've done it so much like second nature to me, So I don't even think about what I'm doing. But But I think there is the understanding that the power I hold in my hand with the camera, but also wanting genuinely I mean, my premise has always been to find beauty in anyone who walked through the room. So I have to look for that. I have to discover that because that's my mission. That's what I promised this woman. I'm going to see you. I'm going to see you. I'm gonna look for where I feel you and also my style. You know, there's a lot of photographers and boudoir photographers out there who I want you to look the most fantastic and be the most seductive and sexy and beautiful and retouch and all those things. And I never did those things. That was not my promise. I'm not going to make you something that you're not, And I'm certainly not going to make pictures of you that objectify you and is for the viewer. So even if we may start with lingerie because that's the way this woman can enter into this space, I don't mind. I don't care. I don't have an agenda. I don't have a set a program of what we're going to do. So I actually now show up completely empty. I have no preparation, so to speak, other than me having talked and said, the said set this base that the framework for how this works and what we're going to do and bounced idee years and understood more about her, where she's at what she's hoping for. If there's certain facets, she wants to express all these things we've talked about before, but when we show up to the actual we have a space. We have some ideas we want to play with. She's brought some things and and other than that, there's no preparation. I just show up empty and that's and I have come to trust that we but we dive in together and it's a collaboration. It's like a dance we do together. And my goal is to hold her hand, guide her, but also pushed her a little bit over the edge. You know, like so they're sort of an intuitive Where do I Poor's Where'd y nudge? What is my sense that she really wants to do? But she might not be able to express verbally, uh, seeing her. So there's a lot going on in this session that's about keeping it safe and comfortable and fun and also deep and guiding her to go where she needs to go, and I don't know where that is. So it's sort of like a and, you know, I think I joked someplace, Sometimes when people have interviewed me about this before, it's like if I have, you know, I fall in love with the piece people I photograph if I so it's the best way and most genuine way to truly hold the space. You just have to fall in love with that person, and when you are in love with the person you look for its magical. You look for the that thing about that person. Everything about that person is interesting and you really see with those eyes, and that's a way to connect. And I think the women feel that I have the best of intentions for them. I'm not. I'm not out to show them in any kind of harsh light. And I'm not out to document all those flaws or I'm not out to. It's not it's not a sexualized or, you know it's more of, Ah, you called it sacred. But it's more of this a sacred, creative, feminine, mysterious place where we go and we explore together. It's not like I know or she knows, You know, we're both in this and then I nudge in pushing and listen that and and and there's always this moment where she has come to a point where she has a shed, a lot of the layers, and she forgets about the camera, she trust me. She can surrender, and suddenly there was like, Oh my God, I I saw her, you know, it s O. I have of Israel reaction, you know, I giggle or, you know, I just And it's a play with her in the space and the light and the you know. So it's just such a um yeah, it's such a e. I don't know how to describe it, but it is sort of getting into the sone off both of us surrendering and being in the sewn. And all of a sudden, you know, three hours later, we're completely spent and we're done, and we can't even think about another thing to do. Um,
spk_1: 1:0:48
okay, so let's, um let's move onward here. My
spk_0: 1:0:53
forties. Let's get to my forties. All right? Okay, so
spk_1: 1:0:58
let's go into the forties. When did that happen?
spk_0: 1:1:02
Well, I'm not deep, deep into my father. Are you deep into your 40 now, My God and aunt, if thirties were dancing in relationship and learning about relationship and creative expression and being Maur independently in my work, my vocation and exploring creatively and Laura's bourgeois, uh, you know, also has spilled deep into my forties. But But then, you know, at some point I divorced. Um, it was nine years with this man, and there was a point where he's just like this is not this is not part of my future. Um, so but then, my forties have been sort of. I was thinking about it this morning before we jumped on the phone thinking about the decades and, like, 40 years have been more about an inner exploration. Um ah. On unraveling of everything that I built in a way, uh, in America. So describe that Well, with the divorce, you know, it was it was it pulled the rug out of this life that I built in America around my marriage and around this person around, Yeah, my business, all of that. But being divorced, pulled the rug and then as an explorer and probably pretty keen on understanding a few things about myself and about relationship about life, what happened, right, Um, I went with it. I just kind of let myself unravel. And at the same time, this is sort of two things that happened in those early first couple of years in my forties, where on one hand, I had to just get my life back on the feet, you know, because I was separating and the business and all, you know, I had to make life work. Now on my own, and at the same time, everything was falling apart. It was just so bas are two different things. But loners Boudoir became then my full time business and end perhaps savior in a way, because this was, you know, if having held the space for women for so long, it was almost like now the space could hold me also. So that spilled into my work with the women to that I became more vulnerable and I could not upkeep the ah, the Miss Lolo got it all worked out kind of character. You know, I had to sort of deepen into the other spaces of being a woman that kind of came through being divorced. And then at the same time, it became also like a deep inner awakening. Lots of different Maur is a Terek. Mystical things happen to me that brought me deeper into understanding being life, um, consciousness, you know, in Marin we all go. You have no problem talking about consciousness. And it's all one and we all love s O. But I had I went into some deep trainings and his initiations with this woman Aerial spiels berry, uh, that again sort of like Kyle is just kind of initiated me into a deep process. I was sort of initiated into another, deeper process that was a lot more inner. So, like if the thirties were about relationships and marriage, this was more the Inter marriage has been going on in the off forties. And then, I mean, I could talk a lot about that. There's probably different parts of that process, but there was the sort of the initial couple of years of going through the divorce a lot of heartache and a same time being. This woman holding space for women's heart aches in general, and so they would have sort of, ah, beautiful synergy around it. And then, um, once kind of, I was on my feet and life was good and I was this cute chick over in Sausalito with my Lola's between wine being autistic and driving around my dish of woe and having my little Mexican macho dog, you know, everything was kind of beautiful and wonderful and, um, but I think I had deepened so much into this awakening that this mysterious things about life and energy and consciousness and sexuality and creativity and sort of the inner fire and the connection with divine, like the inspirational. You know, so many things opened up for me that I'm still trying to understand and make sense off. Um, so clean,
spk_1: 1:6:16
that really stands out here. Especially big. Like what is what if when you look back at that period or now what's the biggest piece that's right in front of you that you look out and you know what I mean?
spk_0: 1:6:32
Yeah, well, that's let me see if I can, Um I mean, the biggest thing that that's that I'm still grappling with is that here, this beautiful life, for some reason, I I still had the impulse, uh, that I needed to, ah, dismantle it. I mean it to tear it all apart. And that made absolutely no sense to me. And so for years, I resisted this urge that I felt to drop a bomb. It was, like, literally a feeling of wanting to drop a bomb. And why would you want to drop a bomb in something that works? But for some
spk_1: 1:7:17
such a beautiful place to and you? Yeah. It's community around you and all the rest of it.
spk_0: 1:7:22
Yeah. So it. It's It's a part that just made absolutely no sense. But I started to finish my book, published my book. I finished the program for women. I try to do all these adult things, but they all had this sense of completing something which is sort of ah, strange. And then ultimately, ah, a couple of years ago, I had to I could not stop this train that was moving through my life, so I just said, Okay, I got her untether from this. And so the last couple years, I let go of everything I own and let go of my place. Let go. My studio. I still photograph, but I let go of that particular place. Um, so I have had this deep, deep, deep, um, shedding and unveiling in a way where I have let go of the nice Arizona, the brand, the all the trappings around me that looked so beautiful and so perfect. And the things that I identified with and and I put myself into this journey of There's no, um there's nothing I can hide behind. There's nothing that I, um like so in a way that the the way I see it now is that I've been called back to my roots in Denmark and have been back and forth now the last couple of years between San Francisco and my roots in Denmark to kind of do a gentle expiration in terms of what is it that I'm drawn to do now? I thought I wanted something completely new, but I think in this gentle way, doing the unveiled book has sort of kept and we'll get back to this. And when we talk a little bit about what what drives me in, But But there's been sort of this. The things that don't want to go away is kind of, even if I resist their sort of ah, a stopper Ness and unveiled did not want to go away and on and off. I resisted doing that project because it's really taken all out of me to do it, and but now I'm I'm I'm like, Well, this is this is the part of the creative process and the intelligence of life, and it doesn't necessarily feel good. Um, but here, if you look at the hero's journey, you know, at the end of finding the Holy Grail and all this, there is the last part that's called The Long Walk Home, and I feel like I'm in the long walk home. And for some reason I literally had to go back home. And I'm starting to understand it now. Why? Because it's not like, Why would I come back here? You know what's here for me, But But I think what's happened for me is that I have been shift in vantage point and in Len's view and perspective in Language back and forth, back and forth, you know? So I'm breaking up a lot of stagnant stuff, or I'm breaking up the surety that I know exactly how the world works and what it all means, you know. So it's so being comfortable in not knowing and being in the space of life off what is really left. When all those trappings and attachments and identification czar gone, who are you at the core? So that's been such a not pleasant and
spk_1: 1:11:14
so that does beget a great question. What are you finding there now? Or have you gone deep enough into this to feel like you've unveiled far enough within yourself to see who you are?
spk_0: 1:11:29
um, and
spk_1: 1:11:32
we still just like in Well, we're on a 10 mile hike here.
spk_0: 1:11:37
Well, I feel like I have a few more years left in my forties, and I'm hoping that I can That this process is sort of the fermenting and distillation and embodying and and And I want I want to try to speak to what I found. But I also want to say that the impulse for all of this was four years ago in Sausalito, where I was walking with a poet. Ah, down the street on the waterfront and questioning everything. I was like, I don't understand. Here we are walking around, um, living in our own ecstatic awakening Bliss bubble in sauce. A leader in San Francisco on we all talk about consciousness, and we all talk about oneness. We all talk about, uh, all this love and but how many of us actually do the work of finding out what we really know about it in a very personal way and what it means for us in a very personal way, versus just the concept jewel idea of it or things we've started and learned and you know? So I went and I wanted to understand what these things means for me. But at the same time, I also had another thing that I said and I said If I stay here, I become like this And that was followed by this deep feeling of missing the world. So I think what was happening over there was I can live in my fantasy bubble here, and it will be beautiful. I can protect myself from all the realities of what's going on in the world, and it will be beautiful, and I will be very happy. But for part of me knew, this is not riel, the real test of all our concepts and our spiritually awakenings. And this and that is us going back out in riel life in real human, mundane existence and practicing what we preach. So I think I knew that for me to be an integrity, I had to go back out and confront and be in a more mundane world and bring my insights into action and and being an embodiment. So that's I think this is This is kind of what's been going on, and the shuffling back and forth between, um over there and here in the language and and, you know, in San Francisco Yeah, we all still can be in our spiritually mindset and mentality and however evolutionary, whatever we call it Ah, it's still when I'm there, it's still it feels real because obviously I've been there a long time and it's part of me. And at the same time, when I bring the concepts over to Denmark, um, and just say the things awakening or feminine paradigm or, you know, this and that people are more like, What do you mean?
spk_1: 1:14:59
What are you talking about?
spk_0: 1:15:02
Yes. Oh, so So it's interesting, but I also think as the cultures and the languages so different and and sheer, it's more pragmatic here. The feminine paradigm is is is manifested into riel life in terms of equal rights, equal pay honoring, ah, giving birth and and how much time you get off to be with the baby. You know, like there's it's it's manifested into the way society is organized in a different way. So it's sort of a more pragmatic a ll practical way. Um, and of course, there's lots of seeking. Also over here, people wanting to to open up to live in a more heart centered, a spiritual understanding of life and being a human. Um, so I think that that's part of it that I have been drawn out to. No. You wanna have, Ah, three D life in human flesh. You know, I can't exist up in that dimension off over and over laid almost conceptual idea of consciousness and what it all means. And so that's that's part of it. I'm gonna have to show up in three D and be a human being and human flesh and have human experiences. So
spk_1: 1:16:33
are we ready to go into the three tips that you might have?
spk_0: 1:16:38
Um, yeah, I might just wrap this up in terms of a little bit about what is there when everything is is left. Okay, because I feel like that. In a way, it's not very mysterious, and at the same time, it's probably really hard to get there because our lives are so filled with stuff and our minds are filled with a lot of stimulation. So it's hard maybe to go there and have that experience. And not there's a difference between meditating and finding a stillness. And then your whole life being that meditation, I think because, you know, in taking all the layers and and all the things that I've known. And I built a way to a certain extent. Of course they're not away. I'm still me. I'm still doing stuff I'm still writing. I'm still wanting to go out and do projects and this and that. So it's not like all of that has gone, but it's more the identities around it. Um, And I think, and I think the fear if I have had to confront so much fear in myself and the fear that I feel is in our world at the moment, you know, basic stuff like survival and, um, the fears, am I gonna be able to find the right way? And, um and I think for me being so open for wanting something new to happen in my life and realizing No, it's not It's not that I'm going to spin it back to where we started between the one place cocoon home belonging to the land versus the adventure and the explorer. Um, I think untether ring, and you're sort of going off on the magic carpet into a new adventure. I was ready and thought I was gonna go to another country, have a new love affair, you know, have a new career. You know, I was open for all of that. But in this shuffling back and forth, rocking back and forth these last couple years e realize it's it's not about that. Um the, um the journey has taken me into those of a deeper what's at the core of me. And what do I really want to do now for the next part of my life, even if I don't necessarily know exactly what it looks like? And also what, um what is my what I'm I called to do and a lot of the things that I I already am doing, You know, it's just a matter of me committing now. And that, in a funny way, requires a different set up in my life. It's like I have f m filled up with so much material that I don't actually need to go out and find new material. Ah, yes, I need to go out and be inspired, and I will always have a little bit of that restless soul. But I think the challenge for me and then sort of the okay, are you gonna do this thing? Are you going to sit your ass down in the chair and expressions off all these things? Are you gonna put it into form? Are you gonna create You gonna give all of you into these things that you can then share with other people in the world, you know? So So the distillation process is is still happening. And and, um and I think at the core of all of it is, um It's like, um, you know, if you think of a pendulum that swings back and forth and then it comes to sort of, ah, as still point, I I feel like that's what I found. I have found a deep core that feels very stable and calm and joyous, actually entrusting that no matter what the heck's going on, even if my life looks like it's in in havoc and nothing makes sense. And there's a piece inside of me that's really calm and grounded about the whole thing, which is sort of amazing s so so there is a deep faith and and dedication to this path, and that That's the That's the drive. And and sometimes I really get that feeling that you I may the adventurer me. You may want to go out and do a brand new. I want something new. I want to live a new place. I want new people I want. But I think I have these moments where I really feel again in a visual sense that the path is already laid out for me. What I'm gonna do, who I am and who I'm gonna be. It's already there, and you could hop and dance and you can escape it and resist it. And you can go on crazy detours. But ultimately it's written, which is sort of an interesting because I do think we have free will, right? We have free will to shape and choose. But I have ah, in a sense that no matter what, my cell is leading me somewhere, whether I like it or not,
spk_1: 1:22:24
Funny, I was journaling today about almost this very thing free will versus destiny, maybe, or some life we're supposed to be on and I was using Kayaking is the metaphor. Um, the river is directed by the canyon, right and that's the route. That's the journey Following the river to the sea, so to speak. And yet, within that river, if you were in a craft like a kayak to run that river well, to do the dance with the water, right, you really have Thio. You've got to do your part with it. You've got a paddle, right? You know what? You have to know howto work with the water to dance with it t to move with it to find the right path as you're going with it. And, um so it feels like it's a if the water is the flow in the destiny, we still have to do our part that human nous within us needs to get in there and do its thing. It's
spk_0: 1:23:33
It's so expressing it. Yeah, go ahead. It's it's It makes me think about, um this ah unveil program that I created for women, and I'm probably gonna put into a journal book that women can go off and do their own thing with. But I came up with these concepts that describes in the way, uh, what you describe when you're in a chaotic and, um, I came up with the with the just kind of understand where what we navigate with and how we navigate the waters, a sensibility and then responsibility. And it's sort of like you're in the kayak and you're sensing the movement and and how and then you're using your ability to respond. That's how you actually navigate. And, uh, you take responsibility for how you're going to get down that river and you guide it, um, by choices. But it's intuitive, obviously, because you're in the water, so you have two going to do it. But that's sort of an interesting, maybe way, another way of understanding. How do we then navigate this river of life? If there are, Ah, you know the soul. If you want to live a life that's so full, that's heartful that's guided by your heart, your intuition, your deepest desires, your soul, if that's how you wanna live. Um, it's not. You can't navigate from and egoistic place you You can't just make a plan and execute it like a manager. You can't you know you
spk_1: 1:25:26
can't. Life doesn't work that way.
spk_0: 1:25:28
No, no, you can't put a motor on your kayak and just charge ahead in a straight line. So So it's, I think, the the tools we have at hand. And maybe that's part of the tips. Um, the tools we have at hand are one our sense ability, our ability to sense, you know, and that's that's the your body becomes your compass. It has a lot of information for us. You know, you you engage in that sort of internal landscape of yourself to learn the language to navigate by, and that could be getting familiar with your heart. What's really in your heart. How does your heart feel at different times? How does it respond to this or that situation you got? How do you engaged and understand the signals off you got when it's excitement, when it's fear it sits in the same place, it feels sort of the same, but you interpret it differently. Um, when where in your body do you feel? Yes, Where in your body do you feel? No. You know, like so you start getting familiar with your century system and your intuition. Um, that will take some effort. If you're not used to it, you're gonna have to learn to drop out of your mind and Frankly, there's been lots of studies of the mind, and, you know, 99 96% of what we think is repetition and pretty stupid. So don't trust your mind, you know, to know the path either, Um, And then, you know, once you start getting into a more sensory communication with yourself and you start learning your inner signals, um, you know, And for some people, it's all different. Some people will. We'll hear or see images and see symbolic stuff. Or people will get physical sensations that then spur some some images or some other mind inspiration. You know, however it works, you have your own way. But that's a definite away to start listening to that inner voice, it's, ah, listening to your body compass on dhe. Then the power and the free will the choices, the is how you. Then she was to respond to that right? So there is some muscle building in terms of trusting your your intuition, trusting Ah, and one way that that could be obvious depending on where you are yourself in your life. But you know, it's the bread crumbs of excitement, more flashes of desire. God, I wish I could do that or Wow, this is really inspiring to me or, you know, So you start paying attention to those things, that many people, because they're already pretty set on course in their life. Um, they dismiss it. Oh, no, I couldn't That stupid or no, Why would I And then you know, you you back to maybe that the childhood thing Sometimes that's away, right? You go back. Who were you as a kid when you were sort of still unspoiled in on conditioned? And what were the things that you love to do then, like, can you remember some of that? Could you tap into that? Can you engage in a dialogue with that and help bring some of that forward into your into your life? And, you know, if you're you know, in your forties or fifties or sixties, a lot of people may may feel like it's too late. It's never too late, never too late. And whether it's going it to learn another language or learn a dance or take up writing or painting or wanting to become a travel guide or, you know, like whatever it is, it's just never too late. to ignite the curiosity. And
spk_1: 1:29:51
so let's say people have this curiosity now, Okay? It's like, Yeah, my life has felt pretty empty so far. I mean, maybe they've had. Maybe they're in their forties or fifties. They've had a certain amount of success, maybe even a lot of success. And there's still that they know there's something bigger that they're supposed to be doing. Um, they can feel it. They can't put their finger on it. But work is kind of empty. They're looking at The kids were all through school, and they're out there doing their own thing. And so now you're just back to you and your partner and something is calling. You might have some tips on this. So we were talking about the three tips. How do you where would you go? What three pieces of advice could you give to these people to help him get started on this journey?
spk_0: 1:30:45
Well, I think definitely like we just spoke. It's it's kind of start listening to your inner voice. Start getting in touch with your curiosity, start maybe if it's if if you don't have a clear sense of what it is you long for. start tapping into your longings and your dreams and your
spk_1: 1:31:04
desires. I'm going to take this up to we talked with me about beginner's mind. Okay? Yeah. So let's talk about beginner's mind first. Because the body is actually what you've been talking about is really that second point. Get in touch with your, um you know? Yeah. Yeah,
spk_0: 1:31:21
yeah, yeah, yeah. Your sensory. Yeah. So let's talk about
spk_1: 1:31:25
beginner's mind.
spk_0: 1:31:27
Well, you know, start, start doing something where you are a beginner. Doesn't matter what it is. It could be super simple. Just start practicing, being a beginner and not knowing. Um I mean, I have for most people, probably done taking these explorations into Theo Extreme. Been pretty radical in my my expirations because I there is a drive in me that wants to get to the core. That's curious. They will want to get to the essence. I really wantto understand. I want to feel I want, you know, um, and and we have different drives, so it doesn't have to look that radical, But as you can tell, you know, I have thrown myself into lots of situations that are unknown. So I have a certain familiarity. And I built a certain faith and trust in my ability to navigate the unknown. So So
spk_1: 1:32:33
maybe this Yeah. Beginner's mind is sort of this empty space of admitting that, I don't know. I don't know how this works or I don't know. I just don't know.
spk_0: 1:32:46
Yeah, and then I Then I think that whatever that looks like take up in activity where you don't know Go on a go on a trip to a place you've never been. Ah, you know you could. There's many ways that you can engage in the own known You could you could
spk_1: 1:33:03
Oh, interesting. You could.
spk_0: 1:33:05
Yeah. Pottery or something. You know, for many people today, it might be radical to say I'm gonna go into ah hut in the mountains with no connective ity whatsoever. And I'm just I'm gonna be with myself. I mean, that ultimate is probably the biggest unknown for many people. And that takes a lot of courage. People don't really want to feel people really don't want to confront themselves with their own in our demons of various sorts. So that would be a great move. I mean, I I went into be passing a long, long time ago. 11 days of silence, um, and meditation where you can't move for an hour. So your body hurts and and so but there you are definitely confronted with your mind. And you're Yeah, I
spk_1: 1:33:58
actually say that's a bit on the radical said. I did a 28 day meditation retreat in Thailand where it was we worked up to 12 hours a day, and then it ended with a 72 hours straight meditation. And it's one of the most difficult things I've ever done. You know, if you're going to try meditation, maybe to start with five minutes 10 minutes in the morning.
spk_0: 1:34:21
So, yeah, I'm more talking about getting out of your habitual life and being in in in an unknown a situation where you don't have to meditate, but you could go off and be alone. Or you could go off on a trip where you're alone in a place with strangers because it's gonna get you closer to you. You're going to get into ah, more intimate relationship with yourself and experience yourself in new situations, and that's gonna help build you the faith or the trust and the ability to navigate the unknown, Um, and the same thing with creative prop projects. If you know if you want to write, or if you want to paint or a dance, or all these different expressive ways, that's gonna it's It's not like all joy and comfort, but you're gonna learn about your own inspiration, and you're gonna learn about. If you sit down to write, you're gonna tap into a ah process of discovery of your own voice, what's really inside of you that you had no idea about the same thing with painting. So I think there's getting getting yourself into expressive situations where you tap into your imagination. You tap into your unconscious your your, uh, sort of the divine inspiration. You discover more of your in a landscape and vocabulary like you. It's sort of like the you can go off, out and in the out of worlds, um, in the same way and have an experience where you're you're being stimulated. But let that open you up inside and cause you're gonna expand and discover a richness and complexity in yourself that you're going to bring into your experience.
spk_1: 1:36:22
Okay, so we have the beginner's mind now we. The next step is to cultivate your beginner's mind next ISS, and put yourself in experiences that are outside your comfort zone that strip away all those a lot of the familiarity. So you really have an opportunity to look at yourself from new perspectives and new situations where you can't clutch on to that which that you've known. Yeah, it takes you back to that comfort place for it. Okay, so let's go to the 2nd 1 the body
spk_0: 1:36:59
and and I. And with this I want to say I say, Get curious, Become curious about lie yourself your situation. Yes,
spk_1: 1:37:09
it's not definitely it's not a fight. This is not a battle. This is about a real acting, almost having a sense of humor. A gentle yes, smile as you do this,
spk_0: 1:37:20
well, pretend you're you know, sometimes I feel like maybe I God, I wish I was born at the time of Christopher Columbus. Wouldn't that have been amazing? I'm sure it wasn't amazing a lot of times, but, you know, it's kind of like he beginners minds, a new lens view and you filter and new perspective. Put yourself in different vanins points and look at life and your world in your dreams and your desires and and become an explorer as if you work. Columbus. You know, you were going off into you were following an instinct and some sense that over there is some land that I want to go find. Right.
spk_1: 1:38:04
Okay, so now we're moving toe body. Okay? And we talked about that a lot. Basically, Yeah. Getting in touch with your body and learning how it speaks to you. What is true for you? Not what you think is true. But what can you feel is true in your body? When do you know that you're on tracked? Sort of following your North Star vs? When are you not when? Yeah. When do you say no? This is the wrong direction. Now I need to stop and find another path or just sit for a bit and let the Yeah, and
spk_0: 1:38:43
I think and I think you know, it's it's, um a lot of times I have followed both creatively and in my life. Either it's been like the excitement like, yes, I gotta do this. Or some of these things have also been a little haunting. Intriguing. They keep showing up. They won't leave me alone, so I have to go explore it. You know, um and, um I would say, don't don't Don't resist trust that life throws you these bread crumbs or signs off excitement or inspiration or little flashes. Trust them, even if you don't know where it's gonna go, trust that it's going to take you somewhere that you do actually wanna go, even if you don't know what it's gonna look like.
spk_1: 1:39:40
Okay, The next thing I have here on this list that we talked about before we started the interview is your stories. Are they limiting or liberating? Yes. Um,
spk_0: 1:39:53
well, we all I mean, we all tell stories about ourselves, who we are, who we are in connection to our communities in the world and and a lot of the There's a lot of power in stories because, you know, you can tell yourself a story day in and day out that actually really limits your ability to see yourself in a new way or experience life in a new way. So I would I would encourage you to start listening to your stories about yourself in your life and who you are and who are the people are and what you can do, what you can't do and start noticing when you're telling a story that feels contracting and limiting and shriveling up a little piece of you and the stories that you tell that expand you and inspire you and liberate you into new possibility. Um, because I don't think we're aware of the power of the word and how we constantly frame our self in certain ways. And that's just one perspective. You could frame yourself in a completely different way and have another experience.
spk_1: 1:41:04
I remember hearing a quoted a workshop. I went to its We are meaning making machines the way that we make meaning is through story. So be very careful about those stories you because you create because they will define you. Are they? They can both, as you say they can both open up a world of infinite possibilities, and they can also limits you in so many ways. I mean, what's that saying? Argue for your limitations And sure enough there yours.
spk_0: 1:41:39
Yes, but you know, I think it's it's also normal, you know, We've told stories for years and years and years to to understand and and have a meaning. Um, but I think the that the trick is in today's world is that don't get stuck on this story, you know, it's it's like I I constantly am creating stories and my, I think my my mind is wired for story. It's fascinating to me, right? So I can dramatize my life into a whole heroic story and think it's really fun. But, you know, I notice about myself. Ah, and lately I've noticed a lot about it because I think me being out on a limb right now where nothing really makes sense in a normal life, you people like What are you doing? And what do you want? You know, and I have a desire to make sense to myself off what's going on with me, and I also have a desire to make sense to other people, and people ask me a lot. So I have heard myself again and again trying to explain what is going on. But But what I find is that we often perpetuate a certain feeling state. Uh, if you have a pro problematic thing in your life and you keep talking and telling the story over and over again. You actually keep giving it energy. You keep giving it your life juice and you stay in that feeling mode if you're upset or sad or angry. What? So that's one way to to be mindful of how you keep yourself in a perpetual story cycle of something that's actually passed.
spk_1: 1:43:25
You know what you're saying, where attention goes, energy flows. And if you keep focusing on the
spk_0: 1:43:30
yeah, so that's yeah, and then, you know, I think for me, I have experienced oftentimes that something I was very enamored with, and we're deeply engaged with enquiring into one talking about it all the time. And that always comes a point where all of a sudden I can't even really remember why it was so important. And I and or I come to another point where I'm like God, I'm so bored with talking about this stuff and my story is boring, and those two signals are for me that I'm ready to release that story or I'm the inquiry into whatever the topic, Waas has been integrated into me. So now it no longer is important. I can't even remember it because it's become part of me. So that's a again, another level of engaging and being mindful of. Where do you story tell where do you Where can you release some Some stuff? Where can you release your your stories about yourself in your life and open up for something new to happen? And I guess also dressed Beam. Yes, be mindful off your need to explain yourself to other people I think we have. We often feel we must explain ourselves to other people, and sometimes we don't keep a little bit of your own mystery in your own to your own engagement. You don't have to make sense to the Lets. The last point that I I promised the last part. Let's talk about success.
spk_1: 1:45:11
Really? Okay, let's talk about success.
spk_0: 1:45:13
What is a well lived life? What does it look like? And of course, that's very individual for everyone. But if you want and desire to live and follow your heart and your intuition and become the one you're meant to be, or your best cell phone or a new adventure of you and experience of you and your life, you need to look at, I think how you define success because I think a lot of what holds us back from taking a risk or doing something completely unexpected is often this outer orientation towards our community, our family, our society success looks like this. You know, Do you follow patterns in your life? And by the time you're 50 you should have blah, blah, blah, blah s. So obviously, I'm a good example off that I own nothing at the moment, right? So I'm starting from scratch. And I'm, you know, in my later forties, so is, like so that, you know, I'm I'm bouncing up against that all the time, you know? Is it people's projections on me or is it my own projections and and what is my value? And if I'm honest with myself, I was never driven by the value off accumulating stuff and status. It doesn't mean that I don't take pride in what I do and have a deep desire for contributing to a world and being useful. And but I never defined myself by having the best house in town and having the right furnitures and having the right career path that looked like blah, blah, blah and Of course I found, you know, I, uh, in relationship to the outer world. You know, I'm I'm a strange one to some people because I don't follow that path. Um, but that's not my success criteria. So I think for you that might be a step If people feel they hold themselves back for trying something new or pursuing that crazy dream to give up the house in the city and move to some exotic islands and grow coconuts or, you know, whatever crazy dreams we might carry look at how you define success and check in. Is that gonna actually hold you back for the rest of your life? Just so you can satisfy this notion of being a success in society into your community and the people you compare yourself with? Okay, enough set.
spk_1: 1:47:56
Uh, thank you so much. Let's let's cover a few points. Now you have your book. It wants to tell us about your book that is out first. Um, seeing
spk_0: 1:48:10
what? Seeing red? Yes. Seeing red, uh, cover some of the ground. It's a memoir about the trip to the Mount Kailash in Tibet, and then subsequently the years of marriage and a bit of run Raveling, and that's available on my website and Amazon and all these other places. And it can also be ordered in any bookstore on dhe. Then I'm right now, uh, trying to find a publisher for my next book unveil, which is about the whole more than a decade of these intimate photographic encounters with women. Everything that we've uncovered and discovered along the way. So it has both pros and a collection of images that's gonna take you deep into that unveiling journey. And hopefully I'm I feel like I'm close. I have different things going on with discussions with agents and this and that. And I think a magazine model society is gonna do a full magazine based on my project. So that's exciting. So I I think that's gonna come out some time, maybe later this year or early next year.
spk_1: 1:49:21
And then they can see your websites. Yes, and the way that you spell your name is L O. And well, I wanted to give us the website. Hey,
spk_0: 1:49:33
it's Luna Mark and it's spelled L o N E M o r c h dot com.
spk_1: 1:49:41
So for those of you that air in America, that is loan more. Tch! All right, if you're going phonetically on it, Okay, Loan more choke. Her name is Luna. I'm gonna try this again, Mac Merrick.
spk_0: 1:49:58
Very close back. I give up on that. Um and then also I do come back and forth Europe in America, and I'm available for photography. And if people want to dive in with a session, both women and men. Ah, a lot of people also come to me for, um, sort of storytelling imagery for their visual brands. A lot of people use that on there. Websites and social media. Um,
spk_1: 1:50:28
when you're over here, you're in the San Francisco Bay area.
spk_0: 1:50:32
Yes. I mean, I I am. You know, I often go to the East Coast, and so it all it all depends how, where people are if they come to me or I need to go to them. And, um And then there's the There's this the site women on vail dot com, which is for the book that project. Um and then who knows? I think there's several more writings in the works from my end and possibly Lola's patois is, um, being re vamped into a new, uh, version off imaginary play. We shall see what we shall see. So what's the best way
spk_1: 1:51:16
for people to follow you or even get in touch with you? Um,
spk_0: 1:51:20
I maybe get on the Web site, sign up for the newsletters. I've been kind of quiet in these last couple years of going back and forth and feeling sort of in that big transition. But I'm going to pick it up again and send out monthly letters to people to follow the journey.
spk_1: 1:51:37
And which one should they get?
spk_0: 1:51:39
A loner, Lorimer. Okay, everything goes back to the same newsletter. I'm I'm one and the same person for now. So, um and then you know, I'm on. I'm on social media also Facebook and Pinterest. And I try to do all those things. Um, but I think you know, all my hope is that I pick up the the newsletters again because, you know, it's sort of like writing letters back from my travels. It's a good way it feels more real and intimate to bees. I'm I'm sort of trying to find back into that and communicate to people that way because I know people in the past have enjoyed that it's more personal. All right,
spk_1: 1:52:25
well, thank you. Luna. Really enjoyed this. This sort of exploration. Really? Thank you.
spk_0: 1:52:33
Thea Pertuan ity to kind of look back over the decades as I'm sort of also looking ahead.
spk_1: 1:52:42
Yeah, fascinating. I'm sure our paths will continue to cross and okay,
spk_0: 1:52:51
we're live well and go out there and and do some leaps and bounces. That's Ah, Get yourself into a state of ah freedom. Feeling that's a
spk_1: 1:53:03
good place to be And explore both your inner world and your outer world
spk_0: 1:53:08
or food. That's right. Life is short. You can
spk_1: 1:53:15
learn more about Luna and her projects at lone march dot com. That's L o N E M O R C h dot com. And you can learn more life lessons from extraordinary people at what makes them tick dot com thistles Doug Green and thanks for listening and remember, go out and make your life extraordinary.