Visualize being close to 14,000 feet on a challenging peak in Colorado. You’re looking at a knife ridge on Capitol Peak that separates you from the summit. It falls off so deeply on both sides that if you fall … you die. And it’s not just you climbing it … your dog is also attempting the summit.
There are 58 peaks over 14,000 feet – or “14’ers” as they’re often called – in Colorado. For the past eight years Ellie and her dog Loki picked them off one by one.
The first peaks she climbed were relatively easy walk-ups. But as she progressed, the challenges in climbing them grew. Some – because of weather or other circumstances – she couldn’t climb on the first attempt. So she returned to them.
And now, here she is, looking at the last peak.
Welcome to Ellie’s world where focus, persistence and an amazing dog have enabled her to achieve something only two other owners and their dogs have been able to achieve.
In this wide-ranging interview, Ellie shares how Loki became her dog, and how he is so different from other huskies. She talks about how – after coming out of a challenging relationship – a chance friendship at a Meetup group – led her to climb Colorado’s highest mountains almost as a form of therapy, and as a way to rebuild her confidence.
And she lets us in on the unshakable bond and trust she has built with Loki.
I hope you enjoy listening to this interview as much as I enjoyed interviewing her.
Links
Visualize being close to 14,000 feet on a challenging peak in Colorado. You’re looking at a knife ridge on Capitol Peak that separates you from the summit. It falls off so deeply on both sides that if you fall … you die. And it’s not just you climbing it … your dog is also attempting the summit.
There are 58 peaks over 14,000 feet – or “14’ers” as they’re often called – in Colorado. For the past eight years Ellie and her dog Loki picked them off one by one.
The first peaks she climbed were relatively easy walk-ups. But as she progressed, the challenges in climbing them grew. Some – because of weather or other circumstances – she couldn’t climb on the first attempt. So she returned to them.
And now, here she is, looking at the last peak.
Welcome to Ellie’s world where focus, persistence and an amazing dog have enabled her to achieve something only two other owners and their dogs have been able to achieve.
In this wide-ranging interview, Ellie shares how Loki became her dog, and how he is so different from other huskies. She talks about how – after coming out of a challenging relationship – a chance friendship at a Meetup group – led her to climb Colorado’s highest mountains almost as a form of therapy, and as a way to rebuild her confidence.
And she lets us in on the unshakable bond and trust she has built with Loki.
I hope you enjoy listening to this interview as much as I enjoyed interviewing her.
Links
spk_0: 0:00
this'll is dark green with what really matters interviews. And today it is my pleasure to interview L. A. Briggs. Let me tell you about Ellie. She is a hiker. She likes. She lives in Colorado, and what sets her apart are what she's done. That's amazing is she's climbed all of Colorado's 58 14,000 foot peaks, which are often called 14 er's, and that's pretty good in itself there. But there are 5000 people that have done that. What sets her apart as she did it with her Husky her dog, which is a husky named Loki. And there are only three dogs that have ever accomplished that, and Loki is the most recent one. And just to give you a little bit more background on these peaks, some of these peaks or technical climbs it's like I I looked at one of the pictures of the most recent one. She climbed. Capital was like, There's no frickin way I'm getting on that thing. Meanwhile, there she is, saddling, sort of straddling this knife ridge with her dog. So there's so many things to explore here. Um, Ellie, welcome to the podcast. And thank you for joining me.
spk_1: 1:15
Thank you so much for having me. It's my pleasure.
spk_0: 1:18
So why did you talk about this? Let's start over the most recent peak. You did. I understand that on Capitol. Is it called Capital Peak? Yes, Capital. Okay, um, I understand that you that was actually your second attempt on that peak. You had come there the year prior, and a combination of weather and exposure and everything just kind of got you, like, Yeah, maybe we should come back to this. Or maybe you can talk about that and then also what it was like the second time when you came back. So what stopped you the first time? And then what inspired you to keep going? And you know, what challenges did you face the second time?
spk_1: 1:58
Sure. Well, the first time that we attempted capital was back in 2018 and it was the same same month of September. And I chose September on purpose because it tends to be one of the best months for having good weather and on a peak like capital that is so technical. And it is the hardest keener in Colorado. I wanted to have the conditions be as perfect as possible before we attempted anything. So when we went up that time we had to hike in about six and 1/2 miles to our sort of base camp area, which is Capital Lake. And it sits right at the base of the peak itself. And we set up camp. I had my partner with me and, of course, Loki. And overnight the weather sort of changed on the wind picked up. And we actually didn't sleep a wink because the wind was so incredibly strong. And after basically just having a sleepless night when our alarms went off, I think was at four o'clock in the morning, partner and I just said, No, this This doesn't seem like a safe situation wind wise because especially going over something like the knife edge, where you really want to have as much balance as possible. So we didn't even make an attempt. We ended up just going back to bed and sleeping in and then calling it in, hiking out the following morning. So that was a little disappointing year.
spk_0: 3:22
But then you came back.
spk_1: 3:24
Yes. Yeah. So, yeah, I took a full year to to get back to it. We had already climbed all of the other 14 er's back in 2018. It was gonna be our last one back then, too. So it took yet another year to finally knock this one out. But when we came back that second time last fall again, September and this time we just got super lucky and the weather was absolutely perfect. Everything about that day was perfect. I had gone around to all the camp sites for people that were going to be making attempts the next day and let them know, Hey, I'm here. This is our final summit. I'm with my dog. This is our experience. If you're uncomfortable, you know, we can talk about staging our start times to make sure that we're not in the same area, because, you know, hiking with a dog on a technical peak is somewhat nerve racking to people that don't really know us or no, or history or our expertise. So I just want to put their minds at ease. But then when we actually did go for the climb itself, everything just went as smoothly as I ever could have hoped for. It was really the perfect day.
spk_0: 4:34
So my understanding is the last. 100 and 50 yards or something is the knife ridge to get to this summit?
spk_1: 4:41
Not quite so basically what you do, you have to go. So from the lake you have to climb up to a Ridgeline and then hit her, go around the backside and sort of traverse for awhile. And then you climb up another mountain called K two, which sits just directly adjacent Thio Capital Peake proper. But between Que Tu and Capital Peak is the knife edge, and that's 100 and 50 feet wide. Earth Excuse me 150 feet long. It's that you have to traverse that section and then once you get across it, that's actually where, like the rial, difficult climbing begins. And then So that's a couple a few more 1000 feet, I believe, from the end of the knife edge all the way to the summit. But really basically, that I fed is like where the hard climbing sort of begins, I would say,
spk_0: 5:32
And what's the elevation where that begins?
spk_1: 5:34
Its not quite 13. I can't remember off the top of my head, but it's a little bit lower than that.
spk_0: 5:39
So when Loki saw this knife ridge, which sounds like it was probably the most challenging of all the peaks, you climb that area that last part of capital.
spk_1: 5:49
You know, in all honesty, I would say that there are There have been other sections on different mountains that have been more difficult because I think what makes the knife edge so scary is Theo exposure, where on both sides, you just have this year drop off of over 1000 feet. And so it's more of, ah, mental challenge more than anything, physically, it's not difficult. The rock is extremely stable, and you can sort of just like, sort of inter way like straddling it across. Or you couldn't actually even just walk it if you have really good balance and and you're not too afraid. So it's
spk_0: 6:23
not like a visible town
spk_1: 6:24
with mental challenge. But for him we had practice. We have done another peak that did have, ah, shorter knife edge. So he had been in that sort of environment before, and he was prepared for it.
spk_0: 6:35
So how does he climate does? He just kind of straddle the knife rich and sort of like his left leg's air on the left side of the night.
spk_1: 6:44
He literally just walked right across it. I had brought a, um, running beliefs, setups that we had thought about potentially rigging up my partner myself, just in case, because we wanted to make sure that we were prepared once we get up there for any sort of situation. And if we needed to have mom ballet for safety or then then we would have it. But we ultimately decided that it wasn't necessary to to set that up, that we could very easily just have him walk across. Well, one of us held him at all times and then, I would say, was really more of a hindrance for him because he was more than willing to just walk across on his own accord without us. But just for safety, for my own peace of mind, we decided tow that one of us would always have ah, hand on his heart. That's the entire time.
spk_0: 7:30
So let's go back a ways and go back to the beginning when all of this house, I do want to get your thoughts on what it what we gonna actually, You know what? Let's go to the when you climb capital and you were done with this. What did it feel like to finally achieve this goal of climbing all of the 58 er or all 58 of the 14 hours? What? Since ah, what was it like in your inner world when you did that?
spk_1: 7:56
Well, it was It was It was really great. I mean, when we hit the summit itself, I very much had, like, a surreal moment. I did get a little choked up on There are a couple of tears just because I've working on this journey for, you know, seven years at that point, and I wasn't sure that we would ever get it at. After missing the Capital Summit the first summer and waiting a full year to get that second time, I had sort of built up a lot of anxiety, and I was nervous, made it so much bigger in my head. Then it ended up turning out to be. And so there was just this big wave of relief to be finished with this particular mountain, and I I don't want to say finished because in my opinion, this summit is only halfway. So there was no big celebration of the summit because I wanted to save the celebration for when we were back off the mountain completely and, you know, in a safe environment. But when we hit the summit, there was definitely a wave of accomplishment coupled with relief. Yeah, sorry, we did have a little party. A Taco Bell that night, Just the two of us for dinner in the car.
spk_0: 9:07
Maya and down Climbing can actually be more challenging than climbing up. How's Loki without?
spk_1: 9:13
Absolutely, In fact, 2017. There were five deaths on Capital Peak alone and all of them? Well, I shouldn't know. Not all of them. But several of them occurred on the descent. And with mountaineering. That's usually the time. When most accidents happen, people are sort of not focusing as much. They're just relieved to have hit the summit. And so they're sort of riding that high. And the adrenal adrenaline has has come and gone. And you know that feeling of tiredness sort of starts to kick in. And so you may not be paying as much attention as you should be or your feet may give out or whatever, and so for me, I always have to make sure that I'm focusing in both directions and making sure that I'm keeping myself and him say as safe as possible all the time. But as far as coming down climbing, we have a very specific system that we employ that I've trained in with into him. And so when we're going down something really steep, I say the phrase get behind and he will. Actually, it's all, like, sort of get into a crowd Bach position and he'll come right up behind me and he'll press right into my back or my shoulder and sort of put his weight into me. And then I'll just crab walk down as he's pressing into me. And that way I'm sort of breaking his fall. If you were toe fall, if it's a really steep section, so it's a great system that we sort of compiled together.
spk_0: 10:37
So let's go back to the beginning. What? How did you come across Loki and did you know from the beginning, like when you first saw him, that this was gonna be an amazing dog? Or is that something that developed later. Let's start. How did you and Loki come? Devils
spk_1: 10:51
really a very unique situation in the way that I acquired him. So he actually came from a puppy mill that got shut down up in northern Colorado, and he one of two dogs that were left to be taken from this this place and this other couple went to rescue what they thought was the last dog. And that's when they realized there were two and they realized What? We can't leave one. We have to take them both, but they weren't really in a position to care for two dogs, and so they ended up putting him up for adoption on Craigslist. And that's how I came across him. I saw his photo. I was looking for a dog. At that point, I knew that I wanted a northern breed dog. I've always loved them. So as soon as I saw his face, I mean, I saw his picture and that was it for me. So I was typing as fast as I could to send out a message to them. And as it turned out, I was the second person to reply to their post out of 400 people. So it was really amazing. I know
spk_0: 11:49
crazy how
spk_1: 11:49
many people fell in love with him. I mean, well, not crazy because he's gorgeous, But just such a lucky moment for me. So we set up a time to meet. And as soon as I saw him, of course I was in love and he took to me very quickly, thankfully as well. And I ended up taking him home that day. It was it was a very lucky situation. From the moment that that we were together, we were just best butts, so really awesome.
spk_0: 12:15
So where did the climbing come into this? When did you start on that whole?
spk_1: 12:19
What was interesting is that I actually at the time that I adopted him, I was not into hiking. I wasn't outdoorsy at all. To be honest, I had never been camping. I had done very little hiking in my life. That was 30 years old, so that's kind of sad. But I didn't really have a lot going on in my life. I didn't have many friends. I had just come out of ah, relationship that was kind of crippling at the time and so getting him was sort of a way to get my butt off the couch and to be more social and be more active. And it just have another presence in my house, a companion, so to speak. And so I had him for about three months when I went thio Ah, random happy hour meter and I met a girl there who was really into the outdoor. She was big hiker. She'd done several to 14 er's and she was just such a beautiful human and so excited about life. And I was so taken by her and her zest for life that I I was just like, Can we please be friends and, you know, take me hiking? And so, yeah, we ended up doing a Memorial Weekend camping trip together, and we hiked my very 1st 14 ER, which was now Albert, which is Colorado's tallest peak. And after that trip, which I should mention, was like the hardest thing I've ever done at the time trying to get up that mouth fountain. Once I finally made it up, Just seeing the view was undeniably beautiful, and it was really a life changing moment for me and From that moment on, I just wanted Thio hike anything that I could get my feet on.
spk_0: 13:56
Something I want to add here is for those of you that haven't climbed to 14,000 foot peak altitude really isn't a
spk_1: 14:03
total anything. This first trip I was wearing hiking shoes that I got it like a discount sporting goods store. There were $35 shoes I had head to dio cotton. I was wearing like a Hollister sweatshirts and had no idea what I was doing. And at one point I stopped and sat down with my friend. And, like, I'm my speech was so slurred. I was so dizzy. My lips felt like there about five sizes too big for my mouth of freezing. Yeah, totally unprepared. I mean, mentally unprepared and, well, annals there physically, I'm prepared. So, yeah, I mean, it was so hard, and I really didn't know what to expect. As far as like being able to breathe, my had no idea how much more challenging you would be at those elevations versus, you know, just being at our campsite or or whatever, but yeah, it's definitely
spk_0: 14:54
so. How old was Loki when you did this first peak.
spk_1: 14:58
He was nine months old, so he was actually very, very young. He was probably a little bit too young in all honesty to be hiking peak of that high, it end of that mileage. But at the time, I didn't know better because he was my very first dog that I'd ever owned on my own. I clearly still had a lot to learn about being a responsible dog dog owner. Luckily for me, and I think this isn't a testament to his breed. He just did fantastically the entire time and never got tired. Never needed to stop, just charged the whole way. And I enjoyed every minute of it.
spk_0: 15:35
So you did the first peak and like, wow. Okay, that was a challenge. I felt the altitude and adapted it. Ah, what got you inspired to keep going
spk_1: 15:47
once we got to the summit of that 1st 1 and it was Memorial Day weekends. This was May, but there was still quite a bit of snow looking out at the landscape. And you can see many other 14 hours from that one particular one melt Albert. And so, seeing all the other ones and that feeling of like being us to such a just one small being in this huge, vast landscape that was really what did it for me. I loved that feeling of Wow, I just conquered this huge thing. But at the same time, like I am so tiny in this enormous world. And I I love that sort of oxy moronic feeling, and that was really what motivated me to do. Another one was, I wanted t have that feeling again and see another Summit view like that.
spk_0: 16:35
Something I would add to that is, after having spent a good chunk of last summer in Colorado and climbing did my own 14 er is Colorado really is in a league of its own for natural beauty. For majestic mountains, it's just over the top, even compared to the Sierras in California and some of the other ranges.
spk_1: 16:55
Well, what I really love about Colorado's peaks is depending on which mountain range you're in. They're so different, you know we have. You know, if you're in the so watch, which is where Mount Elbert is. Most of those 14 hours look very similar as far as the landscape, but then you go down in the San Juans and each different 14 hour looks the land that geology itself is very, very different versus going into the Alex. And then you're in this, like, sort of rotten, crumbly, red shale sort of rock. And so it's really cool. Thio have all these different experiences and all of these different views within one area, Depending on where you are, you never get tired of seeing all these different views. It's cool.
spk_0: 17:41
We're talking about huskies here, in my experience with the Husky I'm taking care of is it's the most stubborn, willful, whiny doc I've ever seen. I have I would not get one. I had an Australian shepherd border collie mix that was the easiest dog I've ever even seen. He could heal left heel, right? He was up for anything. We could go do 35 mile mountain bike rides and used, like, ready to go the next day. The fact you need even more distance once he recovered and got even stronger but wouldn't wander, was just always attentive and was quiet like I sound like a strict dad, I guess. But that dog was so easy. This husky is like blinds. It is willful. Oh, my God, it's willful. And s o I have a lot of respect for people that can deal with this breed. And it's I think this leads into The next part is Loki. Sounds like a very exceptional Husky. The way you've described him, he sounds more like a another kind of brief. Well,
spk_1: 18:52
as I, as I have said before, I really did hit the dog lottery with him because he is just the the anti Husky, you know, he looks like a husky. He obviously is a husky, but personality wise, he couldn't be any further from one in every sense of the word because he's, you know, he's highly trainable. He's a great listener. He's awfully all of the time. He does not wander. He will walk right by animals, which is amazing course. All of this did take training, but the fact that he was, you know, even able to be trained to do this is incredible. And of itself, he's a great conversationalist. I will admit that, and he's an excellent singer, But yeah, he's he's just a good piece. He doesn't have that sort of independent streak that most Huskies have. He's not always tryingto escape and wander. I actually I live in a condo on the third floor, and he's so super mellow. He just hangs out with me all day while I'm working and chills out at my feet. Yeah, he stays by my side all the time. It's great when he was going through, so his initial training I had I worked with the trainer, but as far as the mountaineering training that I was able to do on my own, and that was after he had already gone through his other training. And so we had built this sort of foundation, and I was better prepared for how to Segway into the mountaineering specific training.
spk_0: 20:12
What special tricks did you learn in training that made it him a better dog?
spk_1: 20:17
Yeah. I mean, there's so many things that make him such a good such a capable mountaineering dog, things that he was just, you know, spars, natural abilities. But then also things that we trained specifically for. I mean, as far as like, his natural ability, he's very small for houseguests, only £41. So he's a lot smaller and more compact than a normal sized husky would be just great because there are situations where you know I may have to carry him or we may have toe lift him up or you give him a boost or whatever. And he I'm physically capable of doing that with him. But it's also really agile light on his feet and kind of it kind of is, Ah, Francie, little dog. So he doesn't He's not really like a Derby Husky. That is just sort of like a bull in a China shop. He's like just the opposite of that. And so it's really helpful because, you know, when we're on these more tricky situations on, you know, harder terrain or areas where there is, like, a higher danger for rock fall. He is a lot more agile, you know, as far as where to put us fee and not sending rocks raining down on me or anybody else. So that's really helpful. But then his first, like his training, his nor actual training, we did learn, like no specific technique, to be able to do these things safely and then also incorporating specific commands. You know, he does know left and right and scramble up, get behind. And, yeah, just certain terms he could find Karen's, which is insane.
spk_0: 21:41
Uh, let's fast forward here a little bit. Okay? So you did your first peek. It's like, Ooh, I like this. I think I'd like to do some more. So you started doing some more peaks. And my understanding is you kept going up. They They got more and more advanced as you went along. So describe that I assumed that his skills got better. Your skills got better. Your connection with the dog, probably with Loki, probably kept deepening. So maybe you can talk about all of that. When did you realize that this was gonna be a thing? And when did you like? I want to do all 50 eight's. Where do we start? It's a lot of questions for you. Let's start with when did you realize that this was a thing you wanted to do? And that Loki was up for it? And it's sort of cemented in is like, Wow, we've got ourselves a
spk_1: 22:34
initially when we have, you know, after we did the 1st 1 And then a few weeks later, we did another one and then a couple weeks after that, we did another one, and I really just wanted to hike as much as possible. And thankfully, we did it very much in a progression. You know, there are so many 14 hours here in Colorado that are easy and you know, our easy walk ups, and I don't want to say easy because none of them are easy. But on a sliding scale here there are easier ones that don't require technical skills. And so we did all of those your ones first, and that allowed us to sort of gain some experience and just learn how to work together as a team and learn how to build it. That trust and build up confidence for both of us really know I had. I had no idea what I was doing when I first started a total newbie hiker and so doing more and more, I was getting more experience and then also getting more experience incorporated with him, and he got more confidence. And then we learned, really had a work together as a team and learn how to trust each other. So it wasn't it was probably about 30 to 35 peaks in So a few years into this, this whole experience where I started thinking, Well, maybe this be a thing, really. Probably the first time that I even sort of enter started entertaining the idea that maybe we could finish this this whole list because up until then, I hadn't really even been thinking about that. I was just enjoying the process. I loved getting out hiking, and we weren't only doing 14 hours. We were hiking plenty of other mountains as well. Once we got into and we got through the Class one and class to Easier Peaks and we started getting into the class three of the more technical terrain or it required more scrambles. And I was able Thio see his agility and see his ease of movement over the rock and into exposed terrain and how willingly he was wanting to go. That was when I sort of started thinking, Well, you know, maybe this this could be something. Yeah, the more we started doing it getting into these more challenging peaks and it just kept coming together. And I thought, Well, if we ever get into a situation where it's too much, then you know we'll stop. We'll call it because it wasn't. It's never been an experience where, like I will do it at all costs. You know, I'm only willing to climb something as long as he's willing to to climate Thio. Nothing is ever forced. If he doesn't want to do something, we're not doing it because he is my partner. He's, you know, he's as much of a partner as a human partner would be. He gets just a CZ much say as any human would.
spk_0: 25:10
So did you reach some points Where was like, Ah, maybe we need to back off of this And then somehow you busted through that and
spk_1: 25:18
I mean it as faras, like the physical aspect of it. You know, that there I should say that the the technical aspect of it, because we did it as a progression and started doing easy and then, you know, more difficult than most difficult and hard. We never got into sort of, I should say and oh, shit situation necessarily where it was too hard for us. I don't really remember there being any, like, really, really terrifying situation as far as the terrain. With the exception There was one time where I got off our route and we ended up in a kind of in scary terrain. But that that was very early on in our hiking, and that was not the normal route, and we were thankfully able to get out of that safely. But just in our normal hikes, everything sort of went one pretty well. Now, as far as the mental aspect of it that I would say, Yeah, we definitely had a lot more highs and lows where sometimes I would sort of hit a wall mentally and just my heart wasn't into it at times, and so we were sort of take a step back and do other things, and then eventually I would miss being out there and we'd come back to it.
spk_0: 26:25
Can you describe one of those times like what happened specifically?
spk_1: 26:30
Yeah, there was this one time about two years ago. There are four. There's a cluster of 4 14 hours down in the San Juans, which is southwestern Colorado, and this is an area called Chicago Basin and Chicago Basin is not easily accessible. There are two ways to access it. There's one where you can either hike in from a trailhead that is about 16 miles away from your base camp area. Or you can take a train from a town and from from town to a trail head that's a little bit closer. And so our first trip in describe a basin. We took the train, and then that was about 45 minutes. And then we hiked in from there. That was about six miles to get to our base camp, and I was on a very tight schedule because it was my weekend, and so I I only had. I think we had four days, including travel time, and it's a six and 1/2 hour drive and then a 45 minute train ride and then the big hike in and wanting to summit four peaks. So very tight schedule I had basically had to do to summits on one day. To some, it's the next day and that was it. Like we had that perfect weather. There's no second chances and so the first day that we were attempting to do our 1st 2 peaks, we got up the 1st 1 really quickly, really easily, and the second peak is right next to it because the first one's a sub peak. But it's so. It's only about a 200 foot elevation difference between the first and the second one's really, really close together, separated by a tiny little catwalk that's very exposed. Well, we some of the first peak and we were walking along that catwalk and the weather changed in an instant, and I saw those clouds coming in and I could tell that Hale was coming and Hale was coming very quickly. And that's unique is a more challenging peak. It's a lot more technical. It's very, very exposed and it's ll edgy. And so it's
spk_0: 28:30
basically
spk_1: 28:31
a no fall zone because if you fall, you die. And so it was not an area that I wanted to be in. If there was any sort of crappy weather or a rain or, you know, being on Wet Rock would have just been a nightmare. So unfortunately, in the instance, I realized we're not going to get this summit you shouldn't even attempt, and we actually need to get down away from this inclement weather as fast as possible. So yeah, way and having to basically just kind of run down to get further, you know, further away from the storm in case of lightning and in case of hail. And I just remember once we sort of got back down a little bit more towards safety, I stopped in the middle of the trail. I, like, sunk down and just sat in the middle of the trail and, like, started bawling my eyes out because I was so upset, like, so disappointed being so close to that one, that other summit and not getting it. And now I'm like, I have to come all the way back here because we didn't get this summit and it was such a huge trip in such a long drive and the train ride and the hike and all this. And I basically just had a big temper tantrum in the middle of the trail. A little pity party for myself, thankfully, no table with me. So I wasn't doing Barry's, but yeah, that in that moment I started, I started questioning like, Why am I even doing this? Like, why am I doing this to myself? Because I was just feeling really overwhelmed with how much effort I put in and still was. It was a failure. And so after that particular experience, I decided, Okay, maybe I need to take a step back and focus some more of my time on just doing other things that I enjoy. You know, maybe we'll take a road trip. Or maybe we'll just do Cem really fun. Easy hikes. Or maybe we'll go swimming or, you know, whatever. And so that's exactly what we did. And I spent a few months just doing really fun, easy things and a little bit more like casual exploring. We took a couple of trips and eventually I remembered why I love climbing mountains and it all came back and I missed it very much, and I decided, Okay, it's timeto to get back out there.
spk_0: 30:44
So let's, let's ask. Let's ask that question. Why do you climb mountains? What is theologian or the attraction to you?
spk_1: 30:53
Oh, gosh, I mean, well, there's so many things, Really, there's not really one question. I think people are probably thinking I'll go for the obvious because it's there that most people seem to throw out a Hiram I. I know I've heard this story, but I don't remember after my head.
spk_0: 31:09
Do you know how that saying came about? By the way, it was George. So is George Mallory. He was the first person to potentially summit Everest. Yeah, And somebody asked him at a press conference like, Why? Why do you do it? And he very flippantly just said, because it's there and it like all right, that was the sound bite and off they ran with it. So
spk_1: 31:30
why, you know, for me it's a little bit more personal, but there are several reasons why. I mean, I love the physicality of it. I love that challenge. But it's also the time that I spend in the mountains. That's sort of my time to to recharge and reset my mind, I think the simple act of just putting one foot in front of the other in a repetitive motion that allows your mind a sort of wander and so any sort of difficult stuff that I may be thinking about or dealing with in my own life at the time. That's when I can really compartmentalize those things and put things in perspective, and I know like once I come back from being out in amount all those things just don't seem very important. And especially once you get to a summit and you're looking out and you're seeing this huge world and how small you are like I've mentioned before, it really puts a lot of your problems in perspective. You know, who cares that somebody like, cut you off in traffic like, Does that really matter what the world is so much bigger than you? And so that that's just such a ah, great gentle reminder. And so that's really what I love about most
spk_0: 32:46
as something that I've done a bit of mountaineering. Not as much as you have, but one of the aspects I really liked about it. And also for Alpine ski expeditions like Crossing the Wind River range and stuff. There's something especially a peek, though there's something so sweet, aboutthe singular focus. There are all these things that have to come together to get to the summit, but you're you're always remembering that the reason you're here is to reach the summit or to try to reach the summit. And it's something that marshal's all of these different aspects together. The organization, the training, the gear and all of it to come together for a single focus, and it really makes life nice. Those moments so clean and simple. It's like there's a summit. That's what I'm going for. And everything else coming into this is, you know, is in the efforts to get me on top of there, and there's a really easy way to measure whether you succeeded or not. Did you stand on the summit?
spk_1: 33:46
And I think you really hit the nail on the head there because, yeah, you do all this planning and training and all this preparation. But then, once you're out there, there's really one singular focus, and that is to get to the top. And regardless of whether you actually reach the summit, is not as important as the process itself. But you're really focusing in the moment on, especially as you get. It's a more technical terrain. You're focusing on on what you're doing. And even though like if I'm just walking on easy terrain, my mind is wandering, Sure, But then once you get into that harder stuff, you're just thinking about Okay, where do I put my hand? Where did I put my feet? Where does Loki need tea. And and that sort of hyper focus is to me, it's very soothing. It's very calming because it's very uncomplicated, and sometimes we allow our lives to become so extremely cluttered and complicated. So just to be able to be physical with our bodies, but in a very simple way, I think, allows our bodies a sort of recharge and reset from all the outside noise that we're always dealing with.
spk_0: 34:55
There's this beauty of, especially on these exposed ridges, where you have these grand views and some challenging to rain, and you're dealing with altitude. And there's all these things going on, and it's so, um, almost otherworldly sometimes. And it's to me sometimes I feel like I go to a homeless, another world leader, elevated place inside. You know what I mean?
spk_1: 35:20
Oh, yeah, absolutely. There's a reason why people say they're the mountains to them. It's like going to church because it is sort of like that, sort of. It's like a spiritual experience, and I think when you're at a higher elevation, you feel closer to the sky, and I mean, I don't know if you I'm not necessarily a spiritual person myself, but to me. It's I feed off of that energy and the environment, and that is what is sort of spiritual to me. And so that's sort of It's just a refreshing feeling to be surrounded by beauty. And and there's so many studies that have shown that nature has so many healing properties, and that's such a great natural treatment. For a lot of especially meant mental illnesses and things like that.
spk_0: 36:09
It is for depression. It's I actually went through pretty prolonged depression when I am thought I might go blind from glaucoma, and nature was one of the places where I could really get out of that funk, or at least if it wouldn't hit is hard when I could get out of nature and hike and all of that. I loved it
spk_1: 36:31
along the same lines for me at the time. Before I started hiking, I was coming out of this really sort of horrible situation where I was really, really depressed. It wasn't eating, I wasn't getting off the couch and my family had a sort of stage an intervention for me because I was in such a low place mentally and I think that was you know, looking back that was probably one of the biggest reasons why I took to it was because coming from such a low place and then feeling that high of that first summit in such a stark contrast, I was eager to have that that at high again that feeling of sheer happiness again and in that sense, doing this whole process of hiking is what saved me from my darkest, darkest times.
spk_0: 37:20
Another aspect of this, too, would be your relationship with Loki, right? I remember a divorce lawyer telling me, Hey, if you want to experience unconditional love, get a dog and I You know that feeling. When I I had a dog named Deco, it was an Australian shepherd border collie mix and the war that I mean still decade after I had to put him down. I steal, still feel this warmth around him that just I remember these incredible times with him and then more recently, taking care of my friend's dog named John Bo in Colorado. It was such a There's just this feeling that goes so deep and oh, I mean love. I guess I don't know what to call it, but it's it is. It's magic. Unconditional love.
spk_1: 38:18
Yeah, it's a very pure form of love. It's a very uncomplicated love, I think, because you know, human relationships can be so complicated that you have. It's not just a very simple kind of emotion, you know, You you fight, relationships are hard, we have highs and lows with it. With a dog or many other animals, you don't have those highs and lows. It's just highs. It's it's just a very happy love and going through this whole process with Loki has been so incredibly special because we both have learned so much and grown as a team. And I think I think being in such a unique, having this unique experience, but also being in such a beautiful surrounding when we're having this experience has really made it even more special. He loves hiking. He loves climbing mountains. I mean, you can tell it's his passion. The second I start bringing out the gear, he goes crazy because he knows we're about to have a part time, so I know that he enjoys it. So being ableto have that fun experience together where we're building this incredible bond and we're doing something that's challenging, but we're still overcoming that. That's what's made our bond especially especially tight. I think I can hear her thumb.
spk_0: 39:40
For those of you listening to this, I'm taking care of this, Husky that will not stop whining. And it is how, after po for a podcast off the interviewing somebody that took ah, husky on all of these great peaks. Um, they're not my kind of dog. Hold on. I've got a deal with us. Unconditional love we were talking about. I can't just love with Hee Hee. Let's go into the bigger life lessons you've gotten from all of this. What have you learned about yourself? What have you What have you learned about yourself on all of this? Who were you before you were climbing all of these peaks? And who are you now that you've climbed all of these peaks? What sort of growth did you experience in doing all of them?
spk_1: 40:40
Well, you know, to be honest, I have to say that my life, it's like night and day difference between who I was before and who I am at this point in my life before me.
spk_0: 40:51
So describe who you were before.
spk_1: 40:52
Yeah, before we had ever stepped foot on one. I really In all honesty, I really wasn't much of a human being, which was terrible. But it's true. I had come out of, Ah, pretty dark relationship, pretty abusive every relationship, and going through that process, I had sort of become just a beaten down person. I lost all of my friends through that period of time, so I had nobody to lean on. Once I got out of that, I didn't have a clue who I was as an individual. I didn't find enjoyment and and things, you know, everyday things in life. I didn't have hobbies. I didn't really. I was just basically existing. I wasn't living at all and I didn't know who it waas. But throughout the process of of climbing all these peaks and finding having Loki and then getting through these these climbs I learned so much, some of them being kind of what I'm obviously what I'm capable of physically and mentally overcoming challenges. But then also like learning to trust myself and learning to be self sufficient and learning to be a sufficient with when it's just when I say some self efficient, I should say with Loki and me, because we are of course, always not, depending on another person. For my own happiness, I can create my own happiness. And it's a very easy thing to dio, but also learning to trust my instincts and becoming experience and becoming a mentor to other people. Because I really enjoy that now. And in doing that, I feel very empowered. And so I become more extroverted. I'm more confidence. I'm more willing to take risks and no, not crazy risks not dangerous risks, but just risks in mile everyday life. Now I always say shy away from what is safe because I don't ever wanna live a safe, comfy, cozy life. I always want to be challenged. I always want to step outside my comfort zone because that's when you grow is a person when you are uncomfortable and when you're scared and when you're pushing yourself. And so now that's where I like to live all the time. So, yeah, it's
spk_0: 43:06
going through all
spk_1: 43:07
this like I going down, going from a broken down shell of a person to somebody who I feel like is really more of a force and it feels so good. It feels so empowering to be this person. And although I don't miss who I was before, I never could have become this person had I not gone through that initial experience. And then, of course, the experience of becoming a climber as well.
spk_0: 43:34
So what's next, huh?
spk_1: 43:38
Yeah, I get that question a lot, and I I've been trying to think about it for a while After we finished. I didn't even want to think about that because I just wanted to sort of, like, revel in our accomplishment and just be become feeling cozy for a second. But now I'm starting to think about it more. And I do want to get out, too, to California this summer and start on some of those 14 er's. Obviously, we're not gonna finish any of those you know, all of those because they are very technical there. Actually, multiplex rock climbs for several of those, but we'll do some. Whichever one, too. We can and just have fun with it. And, you know, I've mentioned kind of in passing, and before that, I kind of a pipe dream is Denali. I would very much like t give that a go. Realistically, I don't know if that's possible. You know, Loki is eight years old. He's still in fantastic shape. Physically, he's not showing any signs of slowing down. But you never know. You know, we haven't do have just sort of a few years. I think before that window starts to close and so we'll see sort of how far we can get with that back cool and whether that's attainable. But if so, that would be a really wonderful experience. I think something to aspire to,
spk_0: 44:52
indeed. 20,000 feet,
spk_1: 44:54
Big boy. Yeah, we don't I mean, I've done a few international climbs myself, and those have been really fun. And I think it's great, you know, obviously living in Colorado and being in this environment that's already high up. And I've I've done a couple of stomach camps as preparation for some of our higher altitude climbs. And so it's not such a shock to my system. I think is if I were somebody coming from C level. So I think the elevation on that is less of a challenge than a lot of the other factors that would be present for that one.
spk_0: 45:28
So I have some questions here from some of my Facebook. Uh, there were sedan Facebook. So one of them is and she says this in Nora's tongue and cheek. Why white you climbing the mountains? We sort of covered that. But why don't you go ahead and give it another?
spk_1: 45:43
Yeah, yeah.
spk_0: 45:45
WeII
spk_1: 45:46
talked about that already. I think we covered that pretty well. Um, but it sze fun, you know, it's that challenges every experience is completely different. It's Each one is unique. We have collectively about 85 14 or some it's under our belt. And I can tell you I remember every single one of them, like crystal clear because they're also different. And each one has just been such an amazing experience. Not all of them have been awesome. Obviously, none of them have been really just whining or terrifying or exalting utter failures. But even that that's a learning experience. And so the experiences that I'm having, you know, thes these air, creating life lessons for me that I can take into other aspects of my life. And I I appreciate that it's teaching me who I am as a person and what I'm capable of, and I really, really appreciate that.
spk_0: 46:40
Okay, here's the next question from Paddy. She asked, Do you pack a spot one of those location beacons? Well, what emergency protocols have you established? And have you ever been in a situation where you had to actually activate emergency? Yeah, that's a great
spk_1: 46:56
question. Especially in my situation was just sort of unique because, you know, the whole reason why I started climbing with Loki is because, you know, if I have some, I wouldn't want to say limitations, but I have to take certain precautions. And so having him there, as as an alert dog is really helpful because were miles away from the nearest hospital. If something were to happen to me, you know, it's not like I can just call 911 and given everything that's come pick me up and take me to the nearest emergency. So you know, he obviously is. Ah ah, great addition to my climbing partner group, and so we're able to prevent these situations before they arise. But as faras the spot or a personal locator beacon, I I do carry one, sometimes not all the time. Once I I used to not do that, But once we started getting into the more technical terrain, I felt like it was just a good backup to have if anything were to happen, not necessarily with me in an emergency situation, but just kind of like a like, if any, any sort of other emergency would have been like if I were to break my leg or if something would happen to him. I have carried him one time when he was injured, I had to carry him about three and 1/2 miles back and take him to the vet. And thankfully, he's following us. I can do that. Yeah,
spk_0: 48:15
I got
spk_1: 48:15
a porky pie and and he met a porky pine in the bushes. Yeah, I was not. It was We were in a backpacking trip on approach, and we were like the trail was really, really thin. And it was on each side were like these super tall bushes, and he's like the bushes rustled and he stuck his face in and came out with a 40 mile a face full of 44 quills. That was a very scary, scary experience. So, um, yeah, I had to carry him about three and 1/2 miles over my shoulders like potato sack AM and raced off to the vet. So in situations like that, obviously a spot not gonna come in handy, but I carry an in reach. So yeah, like if something were to happen to one of my other partners Or, you know, if I tumbled down lots and training and was physically injured or something, it's It's nice to have that line of communication. And also just to be able to keep in touch with people who are back home, if something would have happened, like, you know, it's a week run into some crazy weather and we have to spend the night out there or whatever. It's nice to be able to text somebody and say, Hey, I'm alive. I'm safe. But I'm not gonna be home tonight. So don't worry and just be able to communicate.
spk_0: 49:21
Okay? This next question is from Peter. Yes? How many dogs have you been through,
spk_1: 49:28
Ben? Through so far? Zero. I mean, I'm on. I'm on the one. Loki is actually my very first dog that I've ever owned on my own. Previously I was a cat cat owner. Yeah, I don't know how that they would do as faras mountaineering. Or should I say me out and hearing?
spk_0: 49:48
No, probably not too well.
spk_1: 49:53
It has a bad, bad cat, huh? Yeah, he's He's my my first dog. So, man, I know I'm, like, ruined for life with him because I don't think I'm ever gonna have another dog who is, uh, kind of on his level at, you know, at his caliber. So I I don't even allow myself to think about that day when that's no longer an option.
spk_0: 50:18
Okay, next question comes from Glenda ll. And she asked, Did you ever have a trip where everything went sideways right from the get go? Oh,
spk_1: 50:28
my God. Yes, I I sometimes have not the best luck. I try to be as prepared as possible, but I will admit that usually there's always one thing that I will forget that's like, not necessarily the most vital, but, like, really nice tohave whenever I do a backpacking trip. Yeah, There was this one backpacking trip last summer. This was not a 14 er, but it was, uh, again down in the ones we were going to this area called Vestal Basin. And so I had to hike 10 miles in, and this was seriously like the Murphy's law of trips like it was nuts. I remember, like just hiking in. There were four different avalanche debris areas that we had to like go up and over, and I'm carrying this enormously heavy pack and then the last mile or two of it, and it is practically like straight up on just garbage screen. And if I fell on that and like, scraped myself up, we finally get to camp and I'm so, so hungry. E can't wait to have dinner, and I realized I forgot my own Oh well, even before that. So I stopped in one spot to have a drink of water, so I took out my little I have, like, a bag where I keep all of my like, sort of miscellaneous, smaller items, and my straw was in there like my Sawyer straw so I can filter my water. So I stopped and drank, and I didn't realize that I forgot to grab that little small bag with all of my heart for small items, and I left it at the river and I went to miles up to my camp and I didn't realize until I went to cook my dinner. Oh, my God. I don't have my little bag which had my lighter, my knife, my rope to be ableto hang up my my food bag. My headlamp was in there just I mean, vital things were in that that I absolutely had to have. I set up camp super fast, and then I had to run back down to Miles and over 1000 feet of elevation loss to go pick up that bag, come back up after I'd already hiked 10 miles, try to do that twice. And then I finally get back up with all of my stuff. And I realized I didn't have my stove or my my propane and all of my food. What hot food. Like I had oatmeal for the morning. I had Rahman for mighty by dinners. I had freeze dry. I mean, it was it was terrible. Like basically, I ate cookies for three days. It was cookies in a couple of not and so, yeah, that was terrible. And then the next day, we went and hiked one of the mountains on the way back down, I got kind of sidetracked on a social trail versus, like, the actual trail. I realized my mistake and, like, we sort of had to traverse, like, around the side of the mountain, to get back to the real trail. And I lost my balance or something happened and I tripped and basically, like, log rolled down the slide of this mountain and just, like, completely busted up the entire left side of my body likes just scraped it horribly. So I had to like, humble back down to camp triage my entire left side. And then the next night I was awoken at two o'clock in the morning by an animal outside of my campsite, like charging through the campsite. And, of course, it's two o'clock in the morning. I'm by myself. I just have the dog. He's, like, awake and alert and like, What's that when you're in that situation like everything's a bear, obviously. And so I'm just like I'm clutching my my little tiny, like talk and if, like, death grip like what's out there? Is there a pair and it like it actually like, wherever it was like approaches my tent. I feel it. Boop the side of my reign fly, and I'm just like I just start screaming as loud as I can, like telling it to get lost because you're supposed to do that. One of them. There's a bear and took off. And so for like two hours after that, I'm just, like, you know, wrapped up in my sleeping bag. I like as wide as can be clutching my knife for dear life and
spk_0: 54:48
adrenaline. Just charging through your blood system
spk_1: 54:53
just terrified out of my mind and turns out in the morning and the light of day. And I and I went around and inspected my camp, say, and it was Dear Prince, so that was a really fun, fun trip.
spk_0: 55:06
Okay, this next question comes from Rave in. Actually knew her seizes. AM thinks he's an animal whisperer or something. She psychic, I think, released. She used to do that anyway. She asked, How has doing these climes brought you and your dog closer together?
spk_1: 55:24
Oh gosh, in so many ways, I think it's it's really solidified our bond as a za companionship and as a team because as we take on the more as we took on the more challenging peaks, we really had to trust each other and put our faith. You know, him trusting that I'm gonna always keep him safe and always make sure that whatever situation were in that we can handle it together. And I'm never biting off more than he can chew. And so he trusts me in the same sense that I'm trusting him also to keep me safe, as as faras uh, medically safe and so that that's created such an awesome bone, but then also like building overconfidence together and taking on like harder and harder challenges because there's such an awesome feeling of being sort of scared, are uneasy or or nervous about something. But knowing that we are able to do it, we just have to make that take the first step and try it. And then once we do and we sort of conquer it, it's such a feeling of accomplishment, and so to be able to do that together and feed off of that energy is really a special thing. And I love seeing that look of accomplishment of his face because he gets so excited when he is facing a challenge. You know, maybe a certain section is really difficult for him, and he has to sort of think about Okay, how am I gonna get up this? And you can actually see the wheels turning through his eyes. And he's like, scoping out the best way to get up it. And then once he does, I mean his His whole expression changes and he just lights up and no tails wagging. And he's so excited. And it's such a special thing. And I think going through those challenges together and feeling those highs together is what makes our bond so amazing and so, so extra deep for me.
spk_0: 57:13
Hm. This sort of leads into the next question from an she asked, Does your dog ever look atyou with a worried face regarding a difficult technical area that you're both attempting?
spk_1: 57:25
Yes, he does. And he has a very expressive face. I actually think it's funny because, like I said, he doesn't really have derby face. He I say he has resting bitch face because he severe. He's a very stoic looking dog. He doesn't smile a lot. He always looks like he's kind of pissed off. But those moments where he is taking on something challenging when he smiles. I think that's what makes it so special is because it doesn't that are on and smile, have that. That's sort of like a goofy dog based, but yeah, she's very thoughtful in the way that he approaches terrain and approaches climbing. And we certainly have been in situations where I can tell that he's unsure. And he is very good at expressing that. Simeon sort of like an unspoken language, just using his body language and normally, what he'll do if, like he, we come to a more difficult section. He's sort of uneasy about it is if he wants to try it. Hill sort of like hell, just sort of go for. But really slowly, he might take a couple of might. Take him a couple tries. I usually like to let him lead or all sandwich him. If I have a climbing partner on, my partner will go first and then he'll go and then I'll bring up the rear. But he always wants to follow as long as there's somebody in front of him over that's gone past a difficult section that sort of tells him okay, if they can do what I can do it and so he's always more willing to give it a shot. But there have definitely been situations where he's been legitimately nervous to the point that he actually doesn't even want to try it. And in those instances we're done. We're done for the day. I can never force them Thio attempt something that he legitimately doesn't want to do, because I think that would break that trust that we've taken so long to build up. And I think that's a really important thing. Toe always be cognizant about, is making sure that every experience for him is as positive as possible and encouraging him because that's what's gonna make him want to keep going. And so if, like I said, he gets justice much, say so if he is too scared or he's too tired or whatever, but he doesn't want to try something then then we don't and Wolf will find either on another way around or another route or we'll go home and we'll practice doing sort of the same kind of moves on similar terrain somewhere else and then we'll come back to it and by that point. Once we've mastered it, he's well. He'll be more willing Thio to do it and be more successful that time. So I think that's our been with threats to our success. They would say,
spk_0: 59:55
Okay, next question comes from Alan A. Lun Who's your favorite mountaineer or do you have I
spk_1: 1:0:03
don't have one. I know I should probably, you know, a cz cheesy of this out. He He's my fate. Loki is my favorite mountain here, which I know it's silly, but like it's burned like you. No more famous mountaineers. I don't really have one in particular. I'm very I admire so many mountaineers, of course, but I don't ever like Thio, idolize anybody or try to follow in anybody's footsteps. I really want to, like, forge my own path and make this turning my own, and I do find inspiration in other people. But at the same time, I just want to stay really, really grounded. And so I think by like following somebody else or, you know, little watching their social media or whatever that sometimes can affect how I am as a mountain era and, um, the challenges that I put in front of my cell lover in front of him, and and so I don't ever want to be influenced by anybody else. I guess I should say,
spk_0: 1:1:01
uh, do you have anybody that inspires you? Could be in any other field, doesn't have to be rock climbing or mountaineering or anything but somebody that you really admire and, I don't know, maybe emulate or seek to emulate.
spk_1: 1:1:17
You know I can, I guess I I can't think of a singular person off the top of my head. I really love watching people who are doing unique things. You know, whether or not they're more famous or whatever. That doesn't matter to me. I just I love seeing situations that are kind of going against the norm or that are new and sort of stepping outside the box. And so any time I see something like that, somebody doing, you know, putting up the 1st 1st ascent or or whatever I am always really inspired that because that's a totally unique challenge. And I I feel inspired by that, especially because I feel like Loki and I are in that situation yourself. Where were doing things that other people or very few other people have done a couple other people. A few other dogs have done all the 14 hours in Colorado, which is incredible in my book, just having gone through it myself. I know how challenging it is for a for a doctor, well, to do it. But you know, for us also having done Rainier. And so you know, no dog has done all of the Colorado for trainers and the 14 in Washington, aside from Loki, and so that's a really special thing. But at the same time, realistically, like that doesn't matter, because Loki doesn't care what we're doing. What how tall the mountain it is. Er, what box were checking our list we've completed. And so I I try to follow in his footsteps in that sense and just enjoy every experience and not seeking, like a status or glory or recognition. Or, you know, it's just being just appreciating every moment for what it iss. So, yeah, I kind of shy away from fame and celebrity in all other aspects of my life.
spk_0: 1:2:58
That might bring about another question. Let's get let's continue with ease. Do you ever get scared? Do you ever get scared. Have you gotten scared on some of these?
spk_1: 1:3:07
Yes. No, not too many times. I feel like for the most part, we're We're pretty dialed in with our technique, and I don't really get super scared with exposure. You get butterflies or whatever, but I'm pretty good at focusing on exactly what's in front of me and at the task at hand and putting all that other stuff sort of kind of putting blinders on, I guess I should say, But we have been in situations that have been a little bit more frightening. I would say the one of the most frightening experiences was on a peak in a solo act. Strange, which was Mount Colombia. So you normally Mount Clemons right next to him at Harvard, and you could do them as a traverse, their two and 3/4 mile apart, separated by a ridge line like a very long Ridgeline. And so that day I had done a really super quick a sentiment. Harvard first thing in the morning, and some of it at 8 30 was beautiful Bluebird day, calm wind like just perfect weather. And so I was feeling really strong and decided to go ahead and make the Traverse over to Columbia from the whole thing is above treeline. The trail dips just below the ridge line off to the east side, and so you can't see what's coming from the West. As we were making our way through our across the Traverse, the weather shifted again. This is Colorado. It's very unique with its weather and that it can kind of come out of nowhere. We have very, very severe lightning storms here. Not so much in the P m w where you're from or or you have volcanoes. But, yeah, Colorado is It's very different situation. And so, even though I had that that perfect summit, you know, in our prior as we're making our way and I can't see the weather had changed and all of a sudden I just start feeling sort of like the air starts feeling thicker and the temperature dropped. And then, as the clouds came over the ridge from the west, leave the West's in southwest, I started realizing, Oh, this is actually turning into a storm out of nowhere and ended up being a hail storm. So I was Thankfully, I had service, but and I was able to call a friend of mine or text a friend of mine and ask him, Hey, can you take a look at the weather model like see what's going on? It's just like a quick moving thing. Do I want to just, like, hunker down here and kind of wait it out? Or do I need to, like, make a run for it? What should I do? Because the clouds were looking pretty nasty at that point, and Hale was coming down, get down as fast as possible. And so, unfortunately, as we were on the Traverse on leeway to get out was to go up and over Mount Colombia. And so that's what we had to dio going up. Once we got, like, sort of higher in elevation towards the summit. We actually went into those storm clouds, and we're completely surrounded by them. And so that was like a lightning storm. Like there was just a lot of electricity in that cloud. And I remember, like the buzzing from my trekking poles, like right at my ear and hello, Huh? Yeah. And the static from my clothes, like everywhere they touched my body. It was like 1000 like tiny little like shocks. Not painful, but sort of, you know, just uncomfortable where you feel like you're just being jolted every time you're you move. Basically, your clothes hit you and my hair was sticking straight up in the air. I Loki was wearing a harness at the time, and I took his harness off because they had, like, one tiny little metal piece. And I'm like, No, we're not magnetic. I mean, add any chance I was trying todo mitigate the dangers. And so we just, like, ran as fast as possible. I'm carrying my trekking pole as low to the ground as possible because it's a lightning rod, obviously. Yeah. Once we got back maybe 200 feet below those clouds off the summit, it was beautiful again. It was like, just this one isolated area. Once we got below that summit that yeah, it was nuts. But anyway, what's really actually sad about this story is, even though it was a frightening situation for us to be in, it was even more sad because on an adjacent peak, another another 14 on Mount Yale that very same day in that very same storm Lightning did strike and hit four climbers and killed one of them. And for that being right next to us and to have happened, you know, in that same time that we were theirs is just as a very humbling moment, A good, you know, a very sad learning opportunity for me. It was very, very sobering. Yeah, and it really made me more aware of always being aware of, like, what the weather is doing even when I can't necessarily see it. And even when it seems like it's gonna be fine, it can change in an instant. You never know. And so just being sort of like hyper aware. Yeah,
spk_0: 1:8:06
Okay, so next question, this is again from Alan. He asks, What mindset do you need to be a great climber,
spk_1: 1:8:14
I think. Well, I think there are a couple. One is is feeling confidence. Even when you're nervous, you have to just trust that you can do something. You can't be frozen with fear because I think once you let the fear creep in, it eventually will just take over. It's kind of like I don't know, um, I used to skydive several years ago and it's one of those things were like, You're standing on the edge of of the plane and you're ready to jump out, and the longer you stand there, the harder it is to actually jump out. You have to just keep moving and keep going through the motions and don't ever stop. Don't ever like. Second guess yourself. Just keep keep your body in motion. And so I think it's the same thing mentally. Always keep your mind in motion, and don't be crippled by that fear. But then also, I think, and this is something that sometimes gets for gotten in mountaineering, especially, is to always be humble. I think as you start to get more experience and you start to get more notches on your belt, it's very easy to sort of get a big head about things or toe. Um, be more elitist and so always remembering like there's always something to learn. The mountains are the ultimate teacher, and they are always gonna come out on top there. Number one and you may, if you're lucky, be a distant to being humble and being willing toe, toe, learn and grow from every experience and, um it only takes like you can be the best time in the world. But like the mountain is always gonna win. So you can have one bad experience and it'll knock you right on your ass and and humble
spk_0: 1:9:48
you a good friend of mine, a morph that actually got me into ice climbing and rock climbing and mountaineering and stuff. When I was in Sun Valley, Idaho, I remember saying, Let's go conquer that peak And he said, Conquer, excuse me. And he said, When you go up on these mountains with me anyway, we're not conquering anything. We are the invited guests of nature, and sometimes at peak, sometimes those mountains will let us have a great experience up there. But we're not conquering anything. If nature wants to kick our butts, it will have no problem doing that. So always be. I don't like you use the word humble, but it was basically, always be respectful and, you know, forget the conquering thing. I just It's not why we're here.
spk_1: 1:10:36
I totally agree. I never used that word either, for that very same reason. Because you're not conquering something, you're being allowed safe passage. Or maybe sometimes not even safe passage. Or maybe
spk_0: 1:10:50
no pass. It s so it's maybe you'll be passing on to the next frontier.
spk_1: 1:10:57
Right? Right. So it's always an important lesson to keep yourself in check.
spk_0: 1:11:03
So that finishes the questions of from some of my facebook compadres sort of to wrap this up, What would you pass on what tops? Maybe three tips. Would you pass on to others that are thinking about this or something similar? You know, some sort of big challenge in their own life. That takes literally years, especially in your case, to pull this off because there's so many peaks to climb. What would sort of encouragement, inspiration and especially, maybe calls to action. Could they? What can they do to be capable of doing this and to do it
spk_1: 1:11:42
well, first of all, I should say if if we're speaking specifically of wanting Thio summit all these 14 hours with it with your dog, I'm gonna flat out say, Don't, please, please been preys on attempt that I do not want to be responsible for providing encouragement for somebody taking their pet dog up these incredibly dangerous peaks. You know, this is really a very unique situation for us to be able to do it and to be able to do it safely. But there are so many factors that had to come together so perfectly for this to be a success and for us to really do it. So in that sense, I don't with this particular situation, have fun, you know, enjoy the class ones. Class twos may be an easier three or so with your dog if it's especially skilled and capable and has experience. But, um, you know the rest of time just let up, snooze on the couch and enjoy a peaceful day. But you know, for anything else, any any other challenge, non canine mountaineering related, I would say Take the first step for me. The first step was getting my butt off the couch and deciding to go to a happy hour, meet up with people you know to see, to meet people that I was by myself. I knew not a single other person, and I was so shy at that point, had no friends, and so that, to me, felt like climbing a mountain almost, you know, mentally because I was I was terrified and so really just giving myself the encouragement to say okay, we're just gonna start here and see how it goes. And from there, everything snowballed. So just like, get up off the couch making attempt because you never know the instant that your life is gonna change and how drastically different it can become just by taking that one teeny, tiny little step. You know, number two, I would say Expect to fail because it is gonna happen. It's it's just inevitability of life. There's always gonna be peaks and valleys, and sometimes it sucks. And you have to just have a little pity party for yourself in the middle of the trail by yourself. Then get up, get up,
spk_0: 1:13:48
pressure some up and keep
spk_1: 1:13:49
going. And I will say that that second time we went back, we did get the rest of those three summit. It was okay to have that little temper tantrum that one time
spk_0: 1:13:57
we're talking about in the San Juans.
spk_1: 1:13:58
Yeah, yeah. Ah, but having taking that experience and realizing like there are gonna be times when there are failures. But that's when you really, really need to, like, pick yourself up by your bootstraps and just dig in. Try harder. Train harder, be faster, get stronger. Start earlier. You know, do all these things and and learn from those failures and just go out and try again. And then three. Trust your instincts. I would say You always know You know what you're capable of. And ah, suffer number three, I would say, Just just trusting your gut, trusting your instincts. You know your own capabilities and your own limitations and trust. Like how you're feeling in that moment. Like, does something seem too hard? Does something seem hard? But you you know that you can do it. This situation seem just a little off. You know, we were having a bad day. Or maybe all of the components aren't coming together, you know, just reading a situation and taking in all the different factors and making smart decisions, but also not being afraid to take a risk.
spk_0: 1:15:08
Okay, here's another one that this is a question asked by Tim Ferriss of his guests. And I really like what books have inspired you.
spk_1: 1:15:16
I'll I love to geek out on ah on like mountaineering books, and I love reading about like, different stories right now. I'm reading over the Edge, which is the story about when Tommy Caldwell and Beth Rod and were taken hostage. But yeah, I'm reading that right now. It's Zez. Such a enthralling read. There's so many Everest books that I've I've read.
spk_0: 1:15:40
There's into thin air. We have fantastic by John is
spk_1: 1:15:43
in. There was the one that got me really excited about reading more mountaineering stories. That was the 1st 1 that I read No way down. I've read, which was fantastic
spk_0: 1:15:53
into the void. I haven't been
spk_1: 1:15:55
up into the void over it. It is very good. Not such an inspiring tale. Oh my gosh, I think that's probably my favorite. And the movie is fantastic, too. I don't know if you've seen that I like I really am into climbing documentaries. You know, Mary was so good that came out a couple years ago. The one but que Tu called this summit. There's a couple off about K two, which I just want. For the record, I have zero aspirations to ever climb that one. I do not have a death
spk_0: 1:16:22
wish
spk_1: 1:16:24
out of cleaning
spk_0: 1:16:25
share every person that makes it to the Summit X number die Turn three.
spk_1: 1:16:31
It's really, really bad. Yeah, At least I think Everest is like one out of 12 but yeah, okay, to is terrifying.
spk_0: 1:16:40
Anything else you'd like to add in closing?
spk_1: 1:16:42
Well, I will say that I I hope that I will actually get to come out your way at some point in the near future. And since you're situated right at the base of Shasta and I've been more seriously considering putting that on the list So, uh, I hope that our paths will actually cross in person, and you can sort of be my my Shasta Tour guide and meet Okie
spk_0: 1:17:06
Love to Might be a climbing it. It would be a
spk_1: 1:17:09
first. I made my own, took my own trip guy. That would be so awesome.
spk_0: 1:17:14
It's a It's a fairly straightforward climb. There's just the red Banks, which is the only technical section at all. Do you do need crampons in an ice ax for the scent, But there's only one area where you really need six.
spk_1: 1:17:29
It looks like a beautiful club. I go to the P M. W uh, maybe once a year. So I'm actually heading back up there in what three weeks, I think, and so we'll see what kind of trouble we can get into when we're up there again. I know it's the dead of winter, but there's still some things to claim.
spk_0: 1:17:46
This has been dug green with another guest on what really matters interviews. You confined links to more information on this and other interviews in the show notes at what really matters. Interviews dot com. For this specific episode, look for the Yalie Briggs interview. Stay tuned for more interviews with authors, artists, adventures and others with great stories and lessons to share.