Marie Deveaux-Small Business Transition Coach

Jason and Marie chat about how they don't enjoy being in their feelings, why the Marvel Cinematic Universe is the perfect analogy for coaching and working in teams, and Marie gets a crash course on "midwestern nice".

Marie is an executive leadership coach whose mission is to stand for clients in their greatness, capturing the life that they desire, and supporting them to leave a legacy of power and intention for future generations.

She spent over a decade in the corporate world working in business operations before deciding to open her coaching practice. Her expertise spans personal finance, non-profit work and real estate investing. She received her Bachelor’s degree from NYU and a Master’s degree in Management, Non-Profit administration from the University of Maryland. Her varied business background lends itself to creating supportive structures for budding business owners and professionals seeking to create more abundance in all aspects of their day to day lives. She specializes in supporting rising leaders who are looking to transition into entrepreneurship and grow small business ventures.  

Marie loves learning and development and gets a kick out of seeing clients discover something new in themselves and in the vision they have for their life.  She takes great pride in being a sound financial advisor, someone who can provide not only the compassion and heart of a trusted friend but also the pragmatism and no-nonsense vision of a business consultant. She leads from a place of authenticity and encourages others to do the same.  A high tide lifts all ships and it is Marie’s belief that we are all high tides and a source of power and change in the world. It is up to each one of us to choose to recognize and access that power within ourselves.

Marie is a big believer in personal and professional development. When she’s not coaching or speaking she loves to read and listen to books and podcasts. She also enjoys dancing, baking (and eating) all kinds of glorious pastries and confections. Marie lives in Brooklyn with her crazy supportive husband and their two awesome sauce kids.

Marvel:Endgame blog post-https://mariedeveaux.com/2019/12/31/heroes-marvel-and-coaching/
www.mariedeveaux.com
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https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariedeveaux/

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Transcript

Jason Frazell:   0:11
Welcome to the show today.

Marie Deveaux:   0:12
Hey, what's up, Jason?

Jason Frazell:   0:15
Nothing much. Marie. How are you?

Marie Deveaux:   0:17
Uh, doing pretty good. Life is good, I think. I mean,

Jason Frazell:   0:20
life is

Marie Deveaux:   0:20
good. Like it's going.

Jason Frazell:   0:22
Thio. That's a good start. I mean, you're on my podcast, so life must be pretty good at this

Marie Deveaux:   0:25
point. I have has to be awesome. I'm talking to Jason

Jason Frazell:   0:28
exactly on on a podcast of a bunch of listeners will hear this episode soon, so of course it's gonna be good. Well, I know we've got a lot to talk about today, so let's kick off, get right into it. Yeah, the first all married once you let the audience know who you are, where you are in the world and let us know anything you'd like to share with us.

Marie Deveaux:   0:44
Yeah. So my name is Marie DeVeaux. I live in Brooklyn, in New York. I'm from California's, um, a transplant. Um, and I'm a coach. I help people around public speaking and also like entrepeneur transitions, helping people jump when it's especially scary. That's kind of bag. Um, let's see, I'm married. I have two awesome sauce kids, Um, Ben and Abba. And, um, what else I feel like that's kind of where I'm at in the world right now. I don't know.

Jason Frazell:   1:14
Cool. How do you define awesome sauce?

Marie Deveaux:   1:17
Oh, awesome. Like awesome sauce. It's like magic. It's, um it's like the thing that you taste like. Oh, what is that? What is that? And you don't know, But it's delicious. You just get more and more of it. Sauce

Jason Frazell:   1:27
is great. That's great. Well, fellow, I live in Brooklyn as well as I've talked on the show. So fellow, we're not. We're neighbors. We live in the same borough of two million people. But that's never smooth.

Marie Deveaux:   1:37
Yeah. No, no, definitely not Off the train. Same train. Stop. Not missing

Jason Frazell:   1:41
out of the

Marie Deveaux:   1:41
neighborhood, per se. But I would share. We share a burro.

Jason Frazell:   1:45
Awesome. So how? Marie and I met originally. So Marie and I have met a couple of times. It's an interesting little little journey to today. So, uh, I summary used to work at a really cool public speaking training company, and I went to a public events. A public event is anybody could go. My company paid for it, and Marie was the trainer there, along with three other people. So, like she was in front of the room doing all sorts of stuff, and I was one of 60 people. I kind of met Marie and got to know Maria little bit just from like how she interacted with us. And she probably had no idea that Waas And then I think I introduced myself the end because I knew I knew one of the other trainers from from a mutual friend of ours and I think way didn't meet, but it wasn't like any sort of connections. You're like, I'm in a room. I'm tired. I just got done training 60 people and I'm like, Hey, this is cool. So that's the first time you met. And then as the universe would have it Marie and I ended up in the same coaching program is I've talked about with a couple other people in the podcast, so I think it was we were on a zoo meeting last fall or winter getting ready. I'm like, Wait, uh, I know that person like that's That's Marie from the company. And I'm like, Oh, and she's a mutual friend of our my friend Mary. And I go and I'm like, Hey, Marie, I don't remember me. Probably not. But like we're in the program together, we're gonna get to know each other really well. So then we've got to know each other in person through the program where we start each other for 16 hours a week.

Marie Deveaux:   3:08
16 so many hours.

Jason Frazell:   3:12
And what's great about Maria and I as well. We shared a lot of same opinions on

Marie Deveaux:   3:17
things so cynical, so sensible.

Jason Frazell:   3:21
So when I when I am very good, that is being stoic. People like one of the people are friends of the room calls, Uh, I look like Stanley from the office. I'm just like,

Marie Deveaux:   3:29
no expressions don't

Jason Frazell:   3:31
call expression. Marie is the epitome of like a Michael Scott like there's no there's no

Marie Deveaux:   3:35
can't hide anything. No, she can't.

Jason Frazell:   3:38
Three cannot hide anything so every it's not feeling it. I'm like day. Yep, like Marines, like my wife like there's zero, like hiding of feelings and emotions. And I'm like Mr Lake, I could be super happy in the room or like, super annoyed, and it looks kind of the same.

Marie Deveaux:   3:54
Looks the same, which kind of drives people crazy. It's maddening, which I think you're like you're like the hardest person to read. There's no telling what's going on in your brain. There's no telling

Jason Frazell:   4:06
well, but that's what you know. That's what 20 years in corporate sales does. Do you use like, got to be calm? Cool. Collected s Oh, yes. Oh, Mary and her memory And I have, ah, a bit of a journey. But here we are today. So this is the tradition of the show's Maria's. We get the telly, each other about our first impressions of each other. You and I have not talked about this so and because it's my show, I'm gonna have you go first. What was your first impression of you?

Marie Deveaux:   4:32
Oh, well, it's interesting because I don't remember you from the training where we did first meet. I remember like I knew your name for sure, because part of that training is like you. You gotta learn everyone's name, but, like after a couple of weeks, you forget all those names and you learned a whole bunch of other people's names. Um, and then when you reach out to me after we realized we were in the same program, I was like thinking, thinking I remembered your face. I was like, Oh, right, because this guy looked kind of angry the whole time. You have, like, you have, like, very distinct, like bone structure. And so, like your eyes always kind of looked like you're, like, scowling kind of that makes heads like, right, Like, But I remember you from the training being like, Oh, but this guy was like, super also recalled that training. I think that was a training. There was a woman who made a lot of, like, interesting sexual innuendo. Yeah, there was right. And so. But I remember you being the guy who's, like busting of laughing the whole time. I'm like, Oh, this guy looks really serious, but isn't, uh that was my That was what I remembered. And then when we met in person, right, Which we were both in the program, I was like, Oh, I saw you was like, all right, the guy who looks mean, but he's not. Ah, that was my That what? That was like my like, Oh, this is the ass, Jason. Because I remember that when we met in person, I give you a big hug, like right, This guy is a prankster. Yes,

Jason Frazell:   5:47
a little

Marie Deveaux:   5:48
prowl as his base guys. Yeah.

Jason Frazell:   5:50
Yeah, because I'm actually one of the least Siri's people's least serious people on the planet. What super funny is our mutual friend in our program? Casey. Who was on the show? Yeah, two weeks ago. She sort of first impression is that I've superb in Western.

Marie Deveaux:   6:04
Oh, that's interesting. But she was in the Midwest.

Jason Frazell:   6:06
She issues from Ohio. Well, but then she's like, I felt like you were super Midwestern. But then when I got to know you were Super New York, I'm like, Thank you. That's the best comment you could ever pay me. So that's that is Oh my God, that's so good. I haven't had that feedback before. Yeah, we have such an interesting way that we met that it's like that makes total sense. So lesson for the audience. If you ever meet me and I look mad, I'm probably not. So please, like, actually be like, Hey, what's going on here? Because, like, that's probably not what's going on. It's possible. If you're if you're walking too slowly in front of me or wasting my time, then yes, I probably mad at you, but otherwise, I'm probably not mad at you. Um, that's really cool. So let me let me share with you my first impression. So I'll take the training first. Um, you're, like, very graceful. I think you're a former dancer. Yeah, I believe it may be. You still dance. So you have ah, given natural like you're as you're speaking. I just remember you like being very graceful in your in your movement, which I consider myself very ungraceful my movements, especially of speaking. So I remember you being graceful. I'm also like you. Have you? You're obviously very well trained to remember your voice like, Oh, she knows how to. And it was a big room, like 50 or 60 people. You could talk to the back of the room. No problems, Really powerful voice, powerful, present, really graceful. And then when I saw that with my first impression and also like your performance, you were literally performing. You know, you're you're doing a scripted training for us. So it felt like a performance in a powerful way. And then when he met in person, I remember thinking like, Oh, like she's the same person only, like in the real world. So, like you're still another year was performing. But like, you know how to carry your voice like something the rooms like. Hey, Marie, speak up. You're like like it's like it's like, boom like, you know how to like all the skills you have and somebody who just naturally comes over me like that's a person who knows what they want, what they're about. And if you're happy, you're smiling. And if you're not happy that I'm like, well, like that, what's going on here? Like I might I might stay away on that somebody else deal with it. Wow. Not gonna know whether but, yes, that was my first impression of you.

Marie Deveaux:   8:14
That's so funny. You know, it's no, I get that a lot. I get that a lot. Um, people tend to you get fearful.

Jason Frazell:   8:21
I've heard that about you from a couple of our teammates. Yeah, you probably talked about that as well. Which, the funny thing is, I never the only I never get that from anybody in our team. Whatever he says is like, Oh, you're really friendly. But I'm scared of you because I think you're just impressive like you know how to do stuff where you have all this knowledge and awake. I don't really have knowledge and is not afraid to, like, show up, right? Or then you get stunned, like I think I think you're I think where one of the reasons you and I get along so well is your another person. You just know how to show up. Like even when you don't want to. Even when you're tired, you know, you're dealing with seven home. You still show up and do the work. And, like, continue on with the things you need to do because you're also you're another person who's extremely driven like I am. And you think it's like a bond we have is like, we're both like, the people there that are like, Yeah, I don't feel like it was gonna do it anyway, versus a lot of are a lot of people are like, Yeah, I don't feel like it. So I'm just not gonna do it. I'm like, yeah, they're like,

Marie Deveaux:   9:12
right. Nothing like okay. Doesn't really compute for me. Yeah,

Jason Frazell:   9:17
results. I'm sure we'll talk about this during our time today. Well, thanks for sharing that. That was really fun here. That was That was hilarious. Laughing and smiling. So

Marie Deveaux:   9:27
has anyone ever give you feedback before? Like, your bones are you just look like you're scowling, but you're not like you have a very serious looking face.

Jason Frazell:   9:35
My friend Anna, whose mutual friend said one of the funniest things I've ever heard. She said, You're rbf is a gift that your mom has passed out to you. And I'm like, Oh, my God, that's amazing. Yeah, totally, totally lineage thing. Yeah, you got You know, you can only work with what you got. So maybe I just gotta focus on, like, a weird fake smile all the time. No, Maybe not. That would be rather just be creepy, right, Marie? So let's get into it today. So first question for you. What's

Marie Deveaux:   10:08
something that you

Jason Frazell:   10:08
no doubt about?

Marie Deveaux:   10:11
Uh, wow. I love positive psychology. And like digging. I don't like how the brain works and how that shows up for people. I think it's really interesting just looking at how for all of us it's all based on, like, all of our animal instincts and how that shows up then in the real world and social interactions. I think that stuff is kind of crazy. Um, yeah. So I would say that, um, yeah,

Jason Frazell:   10:37
we don't have to ask you a question about that. Now, if that's all you got for me

Marie Deveaux:   10:40
that I like.

Jason Frazell:   10:42
So I don't know what positive psychology means. Can you define what that actually means?

Marie Deveaux:   10:46
Ah, yes. It was like the study of yes, psychology, but a lot of, like, neuroscience of like how our brains work and how so much of what we think shows up in our everyday life. Right? So how How we think actually creates instructors are reality. Um, so looking at things like, for example, like the secret, which is, like, kind of like I think the hallmark of, um this concert after this ideology is that we're able to create our reality, like, mind over matter, on looking at how us being in control of our brain and control of our emotions enables us to actually control everything else in our lives.

Jason Frazell:   11:23
Yeah, that makes sense. Is that Is that where you are, you family with a model coaching some coaching thing

Marie Deveaux:   11:29
now? What do you mean by that?

Jason Frazell:   11:30
Yeah, So it's called. I heard of it First broke. It steals life coach school. That's where Stacy Damone came from. His Well, so the model is the idea. I'm might get this rug circumstances happen, and they're neutral. So it's just neutral what happens and circumstances happen. Which effects You have thoughts about those circumstances, and then you have feelings about those circumstances, and then based on those feelings you do actions makes in those circumstances which can sometimes be do nothing. Yeah, And those actions create your results,

Marie Deveaux:   11:59
right? Yeah. So it sounds like a lot of like, like the basis of, like, cognitive behavioral therapy, right? Like being able to examine your reaction to things, Um, and that once you can kind of shift your reactions or the impressions that you have about different things that are happening, that actually changes your results, which is like everything. Right?

Jason Frazell:   12:17
Yeah. Yeah. All right. I

Marie Deveaux:   12:21
don't think I'm

Jason Frazell:   12:21
gonna let you off the hook here. No, no, I don't think so. Well, do you want to be off the hook?

Marie Deveaux:   12:26
Well, what else you got?

Jason Frazell:   12:28
Well, I know that you're like you're big, You're big marvel nerd. So maybe we

Marie Deveaux:   12:33
have a big I am a bit of a marvel nerd. I just think like the Marvel franchise is a perfect like microcosm for pretty much everyone and everything in life. Um, that's all, um and it's like, helped me a lot like it was like looking at life. If you actually look at it like the lens of a Marvel movie, everything makes a lot more sense. Um, I think most people are like trying to do, like, amazing things in their lives and don't recognize like their own inner superhero. And there's a lot of, like opportunity there. Um, also like I, um, especially being a coach like it's really easy to see a lot of the parallels between how superheroes moving, how real people everyday people move your lives and, like the capacity for and need for teamwork, the need for leveraging each other's strengths, the need for appreciating all the things that are different about it because that's actually the stuff that makes us really cool and powerful, like superheroes are how people should be thinking about themselves. And I don't know why more people don't.

Jason Frazell:   13:32
Yeah, I you know, I've had this conversation. Have you decided who you're your model is if you had to pick one in the marvel, you know, and I'm

Marie Deveaux:   13:41
So we talked about this a little bit, and I feel like I go back and forth a lot. I like to think, um, well, so I'm gonna answer a different question because my growing up, I feel like my favorite Marvel character was rogue because she's like the Southern Belle. But, like ultra badass, like right, she flies and she like, punches people through walls and like she's like, Amazing. And she can't ever get close to somebody like right. Like this year, like her sure touch will like completely debilitating someone. So she has to wear gloves like she's she's like, blocked off from the rest of the world. But she's like, immensely powerful, like on her own, um, which I don't know if you see anything about in May, but like that's like like jam.

Jason Frazell:   14:28
I know nothing about that

Marie Deveaux:   14:30
lies, but like an AA lot of like. How I identify with Rogue is because she is so curiously independent and also like that's part of like the shade for her is like always being separate and not being able to connect. So having that balance of like independence and community and trying to leverage that the vulnerability and, like the headstrong nous, Um, that's kind of like her. Her duality. I think it's really

Jason Frazell:   14:56
yeah. So it's like having this immense power to change the world by, but doing it by yourself,

Marie Deveaux:   15:03
right? Like always going to do it by yourself, can't get close to people and ability to connect right, and so is kind of always, like lonely in her power.

Jason Frazell:   15:12
Yeah, I think we talked. My my mind is just so easy. Anybody knows me is like I'm such a Tony Stark. I'm like, I want a Jarvis. I want to be able to wake up in the morning. Like like I'm afraid of technology. I'm like, No, I literally want to do nothing. It's screaming a robot and have it to everything for me. So, like what I love about Tony is he's actually not a superhero in any way other than he's really smart, which I wish I was. Smart is in. He's extremely rich, which I wish was extremely rich, and he just uses, like sarcasm and wit, toe like build cool stuff that fly around like but he doesn't have any superpowers at all. Yeah, it's kind of like Bruce Wayne, you know,

Marie Deveaux:   15:46
he's just brilliant. He's just brilliant, like, good with gadgets

Jason Frazell:   15:49
without which I'm Yeah, I think so.

Marie Deveaux:   15:52
But it's actually, but those things are like, tremendous resource is right. Like people who have a lot of money and, like superior intelligence, definitely have, like, an advantage over the rest of us. So yeah.

Jason Frazell:   16:03
Rest in peace, Tony. Oh, sorry. Hope I didn't ruin that game for Yeah, it came out in this summer. If you haven't seen,

Marie Deveaux:   16:12
maybe we'll just, you know, in the show notes Just let people know if they haven't finished watching the Marvel franchise, they need to get on that. There are spoiler alerts in this episode, I thought,

Jason Frazell:   16:20
Yeah, exactly. Will probably go back to this again. So maybe it our next coaching we get a weird infinity got Let it. I'll just snap when I'm getting

Marie Deveaux:   16:26
My God. That would be anything that would be I wish I wish so many things that would be amazing.

Jason Frazell:   16:34
Like you like, You know what, guys instead of the clap So we go to configure, it will be like guys we don't

Marie Deveaux:   16:40
know. But you know what? You're gonna have to learn how to snap for real, Jason. That's true. Like mimes numbing that you? D'oh! Really? Your own body. Okay, then I hope that it

Jason Frazell:   16:52
will. It will read it. Okay, let me. We've never talked about this before. Um, this podcast. So Marina's out of me. I literally can't stand my fingers. Don't know how to do it. I try. And so when we snap our fingers, I fake it like it looks good, but it's not actually making itself.

Marie Deveaux:   17:11
It's a lot of fingers flailing. It's amazing to hold its very survival tastic energy all over the place, but no sound.

Jason Frazell:   17:19
There's no sound. It's like it's like, uh, yeah, it's I feel with a skill that I actually cared about. I might learn to do it, but

Marie Deveaux:   17:25
it's not long time.

Jason Frazell:   17:26
No, The opposite side of that is I'm not really good. Whistler. I can whistle tunes and carry tubes up it down. And, like I can list because of a musician so I can listen to songs and usually whistle like the exact song.

Marie Deveaux:   17:38
Wait, you're amused? What kind of musician are you? Jason? How did I not know this about you play guitar? Oh, did I know? I feel like I did not know this.

Jason Frazell:   17:46
You may not know this, like acoustic play. Acoustic of electric guitars Play? Yeah. Play guitar.

Marie Deveaux:   17:52
Oh, my gosh. Okay. You

Jason Frazell:   17:55
want to talk? You want to talk with seven modes of music Like this is a hidden thing. That when? So Kirsten, my wife is gonna interview me on the show soon. Yeah, and these will be things that, like I will like. Yeah, nobody knows. Like I know I know like quite a bit about music theory And, like, I don't write. But I can I could play most songs.

Marie Deveaux:   18:11
That's amazing. Musicians are fascinating because it totally is a different language. Um, And like, I would love to be a musician. And I'm not good at it. Like I did like, you know, I feel like everyone takes piano. I took piano for a long time. I would never practice so I could get any better. And then I quit piano you like, But that's amazing.

Jason Frazell:   18:31
Yeah, you look, you learn. So the audience learned that I can't snap, which is true. Totally true. We're not true. The truth. There are two truths and a lie that is true. And yes, And I play guitar, So I am not sure that so thank you. I might actually just turn the reins over to you, and you could just ask me about, but no, you wanted to ask you something. So, Marie, back to you Because I don't like to focus on me here.

Marie Deveaux:   18:53
Oh, yes. All

Jason Frazell:   18:53
right. You know, I kind of do, actually, I do. So let's move on to the next question. Actually, speaking of, you know, things that we like doing it not doing what's something that is inside of your comfort zone that might be outside of somebody else's comfort zone. And I like to caveat this for people and not let them off the hook. You can't say like getting up and speaking in front of people since you've literally that in front of 60 people. Yeah, I'm gonna make you dig a little bit deeper, because that was just that was just too easy.

Marie Deveaux:   19:24
That was a softball. That's like my go to answer. I'm like, Yeah, public speaking is easy. Um, other things that are easy for me are doing the things that other people don't want to D'oh. Um, I luckily for me, or maybe unluckily, I don't know. But I've been in, like, leadership training program since, like the seventh grade. So being the person who, like raises their hand or something like that has been like acculturated into me from a very young age, like I also worked in operations for a long time. And the whole theme of working and ops is if there's a problem, then it's yours to fix. So, like that, something that is very comfortable for me, like leaning into seeing the problems, were like, Oh, I can fix it. Let me find a solution, that kind of energy, which I found a lot of people struggle with, for whatever reason of like, Oh, I'll be the person like I have no issue being the person until until I'm the person all the time. And then I get resentful and like, because no one else being the person but uh, is not something that brings me, like, any discomfort, like it's kind of my go to m o I got you.

Jason Frazell:   20:25
So let's reverse the question now, so it's something that is outside your comfort zone that might be inside something out, somebody else's.

Marie Deveaux:   20:34
Ah, feelings. Basically, like all the heart centered, mushy, gushy stuff. I don't like them. Um, those you know me, I I often refer to feelings, is gross or disgusting, somewhat injects, but also because I don't like them. Um, and it's like I have remember, I'm like Rogue. Remember, Rogue? Like anybody I don't need anybody And like feelings were hard feelings air where people get complicated. If people didn't have feelings, how easy with the world

Jason Frazell:   21:09
be? I mean, you and I are like in this I'm the same way and one of the people in our team who's all feelings all the time and it's not the person we're figured out. It's another person said to me, She's like,

Marie Deveaux:   21:21
Why can't you just

Jason Frazell:   21:22
be more emotional? The room And I said, Well, I'll be more emotional when you just become less emotional. She's like, Oh, I get it. I'm like, literally, it's It's not a thing I do like it's how I operate. Just like you can't turn off the things that you have, right. I can't people, but I can't pretend right. I can't like Anna said it was like,

Marie Deveaux:   21:37
I'm gonna

Jason Frazell:   21:38
make you try and like no, like no. Like, I'm just not This is not my thing. Like,

Marie Deveaux:   21:43
yeah, maybe. Yeah, people are different. You know, it's interesting because, like also, I feel like this year especially really exploring what it means. Like process emotion, right? I feel like, especially as coaches we we spent a lot of time thinking about okay, of clients. You up with emotion until trauma, things like that, like you can't coach on top of it. And so, for all humans, like, we have to kind of figure out What do I do with my emotions cause you got to do something with, um But it's interesting, cause all of us do different things with

Jason Frazell:   22:13
revealing s Oh, so they just popped into my mind is you're obviously apparent. I'm a parent. Yeah. How does how does that go for you and your parents? Because I feel like parenting is not really it's. There's a lot of emotion and parenting, either. The frustration, the joy, the love and then, like, we're you know, we have a three almost four year old, and we're working on her own well, say, like, Hey, tell us your feelings. What are you feeling As opposed to, like, you know, swinging your fist. We know the training. Like, what are you upset about? How does how have you balanced, Like, you know, being a little more stoic, which is I'm the same way with also like, letting your kids because kids have feelings, right? Like, right. It's just like, how do you balance that? And then, um, since you're married, is your husband Maurine the feeling side. And that's how you balance each other out.

Marie Deveaux:   23:01
Uh, you know, that's really interesting, because, um, dancer like the last question first, Yes, my husband is much more of a feeler than I am. He's nothing like like, um, you know, heart on his sleeve kind of guy, um, and is really good at expressing his feelings. Actually brought up some interesting like gender dynamics in our house because it's like, Oh, in a typical like, you know, heteronormative relationship. The woman has all the feelings and the guy's gonna be strike. And, like, we kind of have this interesting universe and how we show up. We're like, I'm really good at, like, holding back the feelings. And I'm very like task oriented, where he is much more people oriented and likes to express. Um, so it's kind of great that we work that way and operate

Jason Frazell:   23:41
that probably attracted to each other for that specific reason.

Marie Deveaux:   23:46
That's I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. That's like a whole other story, but, like way have time for that on this show, but like no next time. But there is something to that of like finding that balance in your partner. Um, I think with raising kids me, learning what I do with my feelings has become more and more present to me because, to your point, like kids haven't developed that filter of, like, not expressing feelings openly. So, like, the stuff comes up and it comes out right away like there's no Maybe I shouldn't hear. Maybe it's not appropriate. We're in a grocery store with no, like just the feelings come out. Um, and for myself, recognizing O, the only reason I don't do that is because it's been like, acculturated out of me or like I've been socialized not to do that. So allowing them that space has been really interesting and also like phoning it in the moment. Like if, um if my daughter is sad, which my daughter is quite the feeler, she's like our little I swear, like my daughter is like the reincarnation of like Lisa Bonet, like she's like an art. Like I'm telling you, like my daughter will take old balloons and make swimsuits for her dolls and paint them. Uh, she also like cries for the fallen leaves in the autumn like she is like super porous, right? So when she is having her feelings, I'm really cognizant of like, Oh, she's allowed to have her feelings and being able to articulate that for her and be like, Oh, it's okay to feel sad. How are you feeling right now when she's crying for the leaves? Oh, it's okay to cry for the leaves. How are you feeling for the lease and getting into that conversation, which is not necessarily comfortable for me? But recognizing that it is a totally normal human thing to express feelings and being able to name the feelings have vocabulary around your feelings actually really powerful Nana, weighty for us like access how we show up in the world in a different way. Um, so, yeah, it's kind of cool to be a parent because you get to look at your stuff through someone else's heist

Jason Frazell:   25:43
through your spawn. Then you're like, Oh, my God, that's so me. Like they're the spot. Yeah, yeah, there's me, There's there's my husband. There's my wife. Think there's me. There's Mimi. Who? I don't know that that's not the good part of me like

Marie Deveaux:   25:54
that. Yeah, I see that right? It's all of them. It's all of it.

Jason Frazell:   25:58
Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Um, so on the topic of public speaking, you have five minutes to deliver speech to the world. What would you give your speech on and why?

Marie Deveaux:   26:12
It's the whole world,

Jason Frazell:   26:14
the whole world. You get the live stream it you get to record it. You get to be on a big stage, everybody.

Marie Deveaux:   26:20
And so it's like translated into, like, a bunch of languages every

Jason Frazell:   26:23
I love. I love the logistics in the technical details. Mind this. Marie,

Marie Deveaux:   26:29
where is this? What time is it? I love the way I love that. I love looking for

Jason Frazell:   26:33
the possibility that maybe this is just possible ignoring. Let me rephrase. Ignoring the laws of physics,

Marie Deveaux:   26:41
time and space, time and space

Jason Frazell:   26:42
and the fact that there are many people in this world who literally don't have Internet access. Oh, my God. Fine. Yeah, fine. Mr. Deliver a speech to the United States.

Marie Deveaux:   26:50
Oh, that, uh, kidding. That's changes everything. By the way. She got

Jason Frazell:   26:57
what? Both answers. No.

Marie Deveaux:   26:58
Oh, my God. Well, if it's the United States, it's gonna be an angry speech. Um, because God, uh, so much stupidity and so little time, like, I don't know, like, very frustrating. Also, I think. OK, so it probably five minutes probably gonna be a speech about accountability and something around the lines of like, I am my brother's keeper. That is probably what I'm going with of like, there is no time like the present to stand up for yourself and what you believe. And if you allow your brother to be, like, slapped across the face thoughts on you Um, yeah,

Jason Frazell:   27:38
I love it. I had another guest with something someone in that as well. This has actually been really fun to ask people because it's been a very wide ranging thing. You are the first person to ask me the technical details of the, you know, like the logistics of how this is actually technically possible, which is something I would do is which is a lazy because I'd be like, Come on. Like a translation like thing like the U. N. Is already have a translator.

Marie Deveaux:   28:01
You indeed, like you need a lot of staff to pull off something like that, right? You're gonna have to hire a lot of translators. The techniques to be on point. We're gonna have to be standing by DeLay, just broadcasting to that money. Come on.

Jason Frazell:   28:14
All right. I should rephrase this to one of my favorite coaching phrases for magic it possibility.

Marie Deveaux:   28:19
Oh, God. One more person tells me from magic and possibility. Come on,

Jason Frazell:   28:25
As you guys can tell already Marie and I are very similar. Midi is

Marie Deveaux:   28:30
I don't the citizen Miss Strong. It's very

Jason Frazell:   28:32
strong. And also, I got to know the deeds because we've got to make it happen. Like right magic impossibility to make anything work.

Marie Deveaux:   28:38
I am always interested in the how always Yeah,

Jason Frazell:   28:42
lots of strategies. Lots of assessment. Which we get called out before all the time,

Marie Deveaux:   28:46
all the time and There's a lot of value for people like us. Way, help. Support a world where magic and possibility is possible.

Jason Frazell:   28:56
Yeah, right. And maybe that works for some people. I'm not a magic. I'm a magic impossibility person, coupled with a lot of strength. And she's in house behind.

Marie Deveaux:   29:05
Right? Well, what do they say? There's that phrase like, um, a vision without a plan is just a wish, like, come on.

Jason Frazell:   29:13
Yeah, exactly. So this is the part of the show where you get to share your journey toe. How? Um it's nearing the end of 2019 on. Did you really? Marie could share with us anything you like about your life, your work, your family, anything that you'd like to show the audience. This is your chance to do that.

Marie Deveaux:   29:33
Wow. Um, small question. Yeah, very well, because you could go anywhere with this question point like, Oh, this is so well, so you mentioned it. Like when you met me, noticing like that. I was graceful, like I wanted to be a dancer when I was little. Like that was my go to people. Ask the question of Children like what you want to be when they grow up. Um, for all for awhile, one. That is an unfair question to ask a child. Oh, um, like, it's completely absurd. Um, and for a long time, the way I answer that question was a lawyer or a police officer, because I thought that's what people wanted Children to say. Um, but growing up the right like you're one of those things Which turns out, uh, I don't want to either one of those things at all. Um, but, um, once I started, like getting it's a dance. That was like, the thing that I thought I was really gonna dio like, looked for me, like, feels really good. And I don't know, I feel like everyone has maybe something where an activity or thing that they do where just, like, feels really good in your body. And you're like, Oh, this is amazing, right? So dance was that thing for me for a really long time. Um and then I had back surgery at, like, 13 and, um was for scoliosis. And so literally. And who knows? Maybe this is part of why I really two superheroes so much, but literally. I have a stain Ah, stainless steel spine. Um, there's a couple of rocks that are, like, screwed to my spine, keeping it straight. So I have very little mobility and like the upper parts of my spine, Um and, yeah, it's kind of a cool story to tell. It also makes it really hard to be like a modern dancer like no flexibility in your back, Um, and so kind of gave up on that dream at the time. It waas heartbreaking at, like, 13 to be like this thing that I was certain was like, my thing wasn't my thing. And for me, that was like, Oh, my God, God's a liar Because why the hell would you put this in me and have it not be accessible? Um, and so my next go to was writing and I was an English major in college. I was on the school newspaper coming up. I want your communications magnet High school. Um, so did a lot of writing. Um, and when I got to college, it's interesting again, like asking people what they want to be really at any point in their life is, I think, an unfair question. It's like, well, what Do you want a major in? Uh, I don't know. And I don't know what kind of high school you went to, but, like, half the stuff let's accessible to you in college is not available in high school. Don't like linguistics. Did anyone have a linguistics class in high school? Have any idea that that was a thing? Right? There's like you goto. There's, like, tons of things you could study. No one knows what any of them are. And then we asked these, like, 17 year old Children. What do you wanna do with your life for the rest of your life? That is a ridiculous question. I feel like most 40 year olds. I know. Still don't know the answer to that question. So let's let's be real true story, right? So work in progress in progress, right? Yeah. I don't know. I'm gonna all ask me again in, like, 40 years, so Ah, but I was an English major. I mostly chose chose English because it was the thing that I could stand to take. Ah, what, like 20 classes in? Right? Because that's what a major is. So, Michael, I could take 20 English classes writing classes. I could do that. I'm finished in three years because I want to know why you and paid for it myself. Um, yeah, it is amazing. How did you pay for yourself? Well, um, mostly so. First year was all scholarships, most of freshman year scholarships. Um, my sophomore year I worked, and then I had to take out student loans, and then my junior year, which was also my senior year, um, was mostly student loans. Um, and then I was I was done, but I like I never took a break. Like I I took summer session every year. I went straight through. In order to get my credits. I had exactly the number of credits you needed to graduate when I graduated. Um,

Jason Frazell:   33:46
none of this. None of this surprises me at all, by the way.

Marie Deveaux:   33:50
Well, unlike you have a problem, you figure how to get it done. Is this as efficiently as possible?

Jason Frazell:   33:56
Yeah, with the least amount of money as possible.

Marie Deveaux:   33:58
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Waste zero waste. Um, but yeah, I was the kid who was sitting in her freshman dorm mapping out the next three years, making sure I had the class schedules laid out so everything would line up. Right? Um and then you get out of college, and I thought, and I went to animal you. I had a lot of friends who were in the business school in Stern. Um, I was not in Stern clearly, but like my impression of people who went to business school was that they were selfish, self serving people. Um, and they only cared about making money. Um, And so I got out of school and I joined AmeriCorps and made a whopping $21,000 a year my first year getting bachelor's degree at N Y U. Um, and I always help anyone who's done America or hasn't Peace Corps will tell you. The same thing is that's like the worst and the best year or years of your life because it's it's really challenging. But it's the kind of challenging where you come out knowing more about yourself on the other side. Um, yeah, which, in a lot of ways, I feel like it's also like going through like a coach certification program total right. Like you find all this stuff about yourself. Um, but I did that and the thing that I got really clear about working for, like, peanuts. Um, I mean, that year was crazy. Like I, um, my car got stolen that year and then returned. My identity got stolen. Um, and they were like, all these people like buying apartments in my name like it was a ridiculous here, not to mention like I had no money. And I was working, you know, 70 80 hours a week and, um, in Prince George's County, Maryland, which is just outside D. C. It's like, yeah, right. Like, not a good area. Um, And after that year, my conclusion was one I cannot survive on 20 grand a year. Um, two nonprofits could be doing amazing work, and if they don't know how to manage their money and fund it, it's kind of like a nonstarter, like you have to actually have something sustainable in order to do good work. Which was kind of the beginning of my shift around, like money and my relationships of money. Um, coming out of that year, I've ended. Um, Robert Allen, creative real estate class, moved back to New York, bought two investment properties in Philadelphia, and, um, got another job, not non profit, but also not making a lot of money, but started really thinking about what it is around understanding money that tends to hold a lot of well intentioned people back. Um, so, um, started looking into investing, Did a lot of self education around understanding money. So read, um, Benjamin Grams, the intelligent investor, which, if you've seen it, is like it's like a Bible. But Benjamin Graham is the guy who, like tot Warren Buffett like everything he knows. Um, so if you want understand money, go to like the source, right? Read that book and came back to New York. Started working, really found myself still working in, like a youth education space, which is what I did for AmeriCorps. Um, started building this career around education management and teaching people how to educate kids kind of in mass run education centers. That was really my introduction into management. And then, um, because I was so used to working multiple jobs. Um um, because I was broke all the time. Um, I was working a management job, and then I also got into an M l m. I did, um, Primerica, which is like a financial service is MLM. Um and they paid for me to get all of my investment licenses, so I'm actually a fully licensed investment adviser. Um, right. Which is, like, I tell people, Yeah, not the best side hustle. Try to pick something that's not like federally regulated. Like such a pain in the ass to maintain like, Oh, my God. Um, like so much C e. And like, uh, I don't need to know about annuities right now, but, like, um, keeps me still learning and understanding money and how it works in a really, um, relevant way, right? Likes awesome. Um, so so did that kind of along the way, as I was, like, building my career. And then finally, right before I became a coach, I worked for a large target school network here in New York. Um, again, really kind of at the time when I had gone to work for them, I was looking to get into development. I thought I was going to start doing Grant writing because it seemed like a perfect right. I'm a writer. I care about money. I care about non profits. I should be a grant writer. turns out you can't be a grant writer like no one's gonna hire you unless you've already acquired, like, hundreds of thousands of dollars in grants like no one's

Jason Frazell:   38:52
going to be. How do you start?

Marie Deveaux:   38:56
Um, you either have to, like, know somebody who's doing it or teach yourself by just writing grants for, like, an existing non profit. Right. So, like, I feel like a lot of smaller nonprofits. People learn how to be grant writers cause they work there and they need money. So then you get some grants under your belt. Then you can take that knowledge and go to a larger organization like, Hey, I've acquired a bunch of money, right? But to just kind of hang your sign outside me like I'm a grant writer, No one's hiring that person. So because they're not gonna teach you how to be a great writer, um, so I like went to this like large charter schools like, Hey, I would love to be on your development team, but like we cannot teach you how to do this. What else can you do? I was like, Well, I have a back pack running operations and education and So I am joined their team as like, I think, like the third or fourth higher for their operations department. At the time, they had hired the CEO like the week before, and I got bills. My department.

Jason Frazell:   39:51
That's cool. It's fun.

Marie Deveaux:   39:52
It's like, Cool. It's like kind of the best thing for someone who's like super entrepreneurial and doesn't like rules right, which is like me. Um, I was like, Yeah, build your team, build it out, Do what you want, had an awesome time there, um, hit the ceiling and started looking at what else I wanted to do. And, um, public speaking and training was kind of my next thing, and that's eventually how I met you on. And then when it came time for me to, like, leave that job, I was like, Hey, there's nothing left for me to build here. I was like, I think I just want to be a coach. I think I just want to train people and work with people one on one all the time and watch one like that. Light comes on and someone and they figure out that like they're not valuing themselves or they figure out that. Like, um, all they have to do is, like, open their mouth and speak, And magic's gonna happen, you know, um and so that's when I started coaching practice. That was Ah, what, three and 1/2 years ago? Um and so that's where I am now. But I feel like everything that I experienced along the way has been in service of the exact place that I am right now, right? Like, yeah, yeah. Um, which is funny, because I get a lot of people who will reach out to me on LinkedIn. Asking about how do we get to training? I wantto be in training and development. I want I'm like it wasn't necessarily intentional. You just, like, be the person who cares about things. And that tends to show up in certain roles in certain areas, in certain industries. And that's where you end up finding yourself. Um, yeah. So yeah.

Jason Frazell:   41:15
Awesome. So, uh, two quick follow up questions on what kind of people do you coach like, What's if people are listening? They're looking for a coach like who's Who's an ideal client for Marie.

Marie Deveaux:   41:28
Yeah, So I don't client for me is ah, woman of color, probably between the ages of 30 and 45. Uh, who's been climbing the ladder and is now looking for an entrepreneurial shift. So most of my clients are thought leaders people with big ideas in rooms that are too small for them and are looking Yeah, straight off the dome. Sometimes I have moment, um and, um and I helped him in that transition and actually like creating, putting together not just the strategy and the plan to transition into entrepreneurship, but also a lot of the mind set pieces believe himself so that it sticks. Right? Um, there's something I think especially, um, debilitating about making the job and then a year later, having to go back. Um, so I help people with that transition. I also still do a lot of like public speaking coaching. Um, and interestingly, they actually go hand in hand, um, at positioning, finding your voice, learning how to use it, telling your story, getting in touch with your why all of that which comes across and storytelling and how you present to your ideas. So those are my two main areas, public speaking and entrepreneurial. Transition

Jason Frazell:   42:38
Nice and well at the end of the episode will definitely talk about how people confined you connected to you and more about what you do. So this is a good example where I love doing this podcast because Marie and I have spent oh, man, probably 150 hours, like in the same space this year. And I just learned a ton of Tana about Marie. So either you don't like to share yourself, which might be a part of it more. It's the combination of like, you don't like talking about yourself. Another thing I think you have in common. We don't really share the things we're actually up to that Well, yeah, things that we're actually doing well. And also, um, I think your journey is super cool and like, Yeah, like it feels to me like everything you've done has gotten, you know, like this point where you've got this striving coaching practice, you're serving the people you want to serve, And it might probably not possible if you would have kind of skip some of the steps along the way. I learned about yourself and learn about what you like. What you don't like.

Marie Deveaux:   43:30
Yeah, which is so interesting that you say that I remember when I was graduating from N Y. U and didn't really know what I was gonna do next, right? But I spoke to my older brother and I was like, You know, I don't know what I'm gonna do. Like I got this English degree. People say should be a teacher. I want to be a teacher. You were telling me I should just go to law school, like like, And it's interesting how we have kind of like, all of these wrote responses when someone finishes undergrad like, I will just just get an MBA or get a J d like, uh, like like, that's like some small thing like don't tell pit. Stop telling people to do that. Um, all of you who are like, don't tell people to do that. Um, but like, I spoke to my older brother and he was like, Well, it doesn't really matter, just, like, pick something. And if you don't like it, pick something else. It was like the best advice, but bested by,

Jason Frazell:   44:14
like, what would you

Marie Deveaux:   44:15
do with your life? Start living and you'll figure it out like I love that you

Jason Frazell:   44:20
think that's something you know, fellow coaches you run into all the time. Is this the idea that, like, you have to have it all figured out before you try anything and like, this idea like, Well, I need to have it perfect before I start a podcast or I'm going to be an entrepreneur. Yes, you course there's the money thing in the time thing, But just go try some stuff and it's gonna you're gonna and I The person I interviewed yesterday, Actually, we talked with the same thing of just like over time, you're gonna figure out what you don't like and stop doing the things you don't like. So if you go work in a corporation and you hate it, you'll find a job that isn't a big corporation. And go figure and you're not. There's never gonna be think perfect, But like stop doing the things you literally don't like doing because of the money or the time or whatever, because there are people out there that are doing things that they love that you would I likely love. They're probably making as much or more money than you because they bring their skills and their joint to their work.

Marie Deveaux:   45:07
Right, right, which is interesting because we get So I think people get so caught up in like, Well, what do I need to do next? What we need to do next, like like the doing doesn't really matter that much like what you're doing. It's like, What are you getting out of it on the other side? Right? Like and it's interesting a CZ Coaches were always like a live your life by design to be intentional beyond purpose. But like the thing that's on purpose isn't like the specific action steps on purpose. So much is like the reason is on purpose.

Jason Frazell:   45:37
You know, it's like, yeah, you're commitments, not your go and apply for this one program and do. This is one specific way. And if you do this, one specific weight is like it's like I you know I do. I do improv. It's like improv. You you say something and I have no idea what Maria's going to say, and it's it's kind of how life works. You have no idea how it's gonna go, and you can't actually plan it all out because you're just one, you know it's one small piece of, like, this massive machine. Well, I control what you wanted. And when you're clear into me, like when you're cleared to commitments, that's what you can control. What am I actually committed to what I want and then, like, start doing those things And, like, it's I think most time at least, my experience for my life has been since I've actually suggested that which has been fairly recently, it kind of comes together almost like more quickly. The faster you do, the things that try the things, the faster you get to that process like Ray. Oh, this is what I meant to be doing because this is the thing that just feels like in my wheelhouse, right? Right. That's critical.

Marie Deveaux:   46:32
But it's that it's like getting through enough of the trial and error process to actually find the thing versus, like, Oh, I'm so scared. Let me not try anything. Well, then you're never gonna figure it out. Yeah. What

Jason Frazell:   46:45
if I would have? What if I could have? What if I did? But I never did So then, like a Dr Seuss now, like a doctor? Soon.

Marie Deveaux:   46:50
Oh, my God. You should have a Children's book.

Jason Frazell:   46:53
Yeah, no writing is like the idea of writing grants for living might be one of the worst jobs on the planet. For me, like that just sounds.

Marie Deveaux:   47:01
It's amazing, like right writing something that causes someone to write you a check That seems like it seems like a mate. That's like, Come on, I like I like

Jason Frazell:   47:10
to sell people stuff that hasn't right me checks. I don't want to write anything for it. I would like to talk to them and like, uh, you power points for them.

Marie Deveaux:   47:17
How? Our point. Oh my God. Technical

Jason Frazell:   47:20
Morita. Cool stuff. The technical presentations to get them convince, you need to buy this piece of software. That's the exciting stuff, not writing,

Marie Deveaux:   47:27
right. And it's all in the words.

Jason Frazell:   47:29
Oh, it's all in the doing. Not the being, Yeah, yeah. So so transitioning a little bit. This is the part of the show where you get to ask me anything and I will answer it. I mean, yes, you could ask me certain things I might punt, but most likely I will answer it. I generally answer it so anything come to mind that you want to ask me about that. I can answer for audience here on the show today.

Marie Deveaux:   47:54
Yeah. Uh, well, it's interesting. Um, I'm curious, um, about the Midwestern niceness and how

Jason Frazell:   48:06
it shows up in your life. I love this topic. Oh, my God. I love this topic. First I'm gonna say Oh, yeah, you betcha. It's real. It's a real thing, you know? You know? Uh, yeah. Yeah. So the culture that that I grew up in, So I grew up. My parents were from Kansas. My grandparents were from Kansas. Amazingly love. Amazing people, right? Like good Heartland Midwestern values. And my parents moved to Can't Minnesota. My dad got a job there when I was six months old, so I I was in Minnesota. Cem is basically, like, six months old to 27 years old, So there's a term called Minnesota. Nice to know. I don't know if you've ever heard of that before. What that means is, you know, in New York people will kind of tell you how they feel a lot. It was like a lot of times, like, no malice. There's just like a Marie. Like, I think this thing you're doing kind of stinks. um, the Midwestern Nice is kind of the opposite. So this is the way I this is the way I see it in my experience of Midwestern nice is you don't actually like people that much, but you have to be nice because it's very like it's a very religious community, is very Minnesota's very sweetest ray Lutheran on The idea is that you don't need anything for yourself. You're good, which I think it away. You probably appreciate like I'm good.

Marie Deveaux:   49:28
Wow, you see me?

Jason Frazell:   49:30
I don't need to be brag like, you know, there's no bragging over here. I'm good and I don't need anything from anybody. But the minute somebody else asked you for help, you're at their side like and that is like, That's a very cultural thing. And I think so. My wife's mom and Gran parents are from Norway and Norwegians of the same. It's very Scandinavian thing is like you rush to the aid of others, but you don't need to think for yourself like you put everybody else before yourself. So I think What? Minnesota Nice. The way I see it is you have this idea that you take care of everybody else, even when you don't necessarily like them or like you don't actually align with them. So looking back now, you know, sometimes you'll have, like, I feel like my friends in New York like I really, really like. And I have a lot in common with them generally, and we just have, like, a good time together in Minnesota, like looking back and it's been a while. But I have friends who like and this is not like my still my best friends. You guys, this is this, like, still good friends. But there are people who'd be friends. Whether you're like, Why my friends with you, it's like because I should because I'm nice, because so to answer the Minnesota nice Midwestern thing. Absolutely. How it shows that for me is, um, people pleasing. So, uh, the idea like, don't hurt anybody's feelings like I have strong opinions, you know, like you and I like, I have strong opinions. I'm very judgmental. Um, sometimes I let it fly you. No, no, no, no. Just pure nice guy all the time, huh? So the idea that hurting people's feelings like not a thing you d'oh! And the difference that I've realized since living in New York almost 15 only 15 years in March is that it's like what we're learning to dio and what you're probably coming from California. That New York you're much better at is like Let's just have a power conversation. Let me just tell you like I'm not telling you You're a bad person like it's almost like the idea that, like, if I tell anybody, is something that I don't like about them or what they're doing, I'm actually slight calling their baby ugly like it's like you just don't confront. So this shows up for a lot in, Um, I was say, like the opposite, like holiday dinners in the Midwest is the opposite of like a Jewish or Italian dinner that you'd see on like a television show where, like people like flying at each other like the last drink in and like talking and you're like, you know, like ant, whatever, like you were this to me and they were this to me and everybody's kind of going to each other. But it's not a place of love, like let's just like bond over like tension. The way I grew up not a silly, just my family. My family's actually good communicators, but just the general culture is you don't bond over attention and angst on each other. You bond over like being nice to each other. And when you're not nice to each other, you end up in this place of like they're mean or they're not supportive. And you also never ask for help. Like never, never ask for help. Because if you do, that means something about you, and you should be resilient to be able to do it on your own. So I don't know that's a long run that answer to the question, But I want to stop and see if you

Marie Deveaux:   52:27
that's like one. That's fascinating because there's like, That's how you show up, Um, like nothing to see over here, let me help everybody else, Um, rich in a lot of ways, I feel like empowers, like a lot of your relationships. Where you you show up is like this really loyal friend, very

Jason Frazell:   52:44
loyal. Yeah, The other thing, that bastard culture I'm extremely loyal like that is a thing like that. I learned from my family that I think is a positive thing about. There's a lot of positive things about Grandpa Midwest. One of them is. Loyalty is one of the greatest things like you are loyal to your friends. You're loyal to your family. You're loyal to your employer is a lot like a least when I was working. So you end up staying in. A lot of people end up staying at jobs for too long. Maybe that's changed now, but for me it was like the idea, like you don't go to a job, then decide you don't like it. Leave like you're like Ohio. These I owe this employee or something. So yeah,

Marie Deveaux:   53:17
yeah, but that's that's what first thank you to me is like, Oh, I totally see it. But the other thing that I find really interesting is like knowing you have someone who works in the tax base, and I feel like especially for tech companies that are moving very fast, it's all about like disruption and the idea that, like it's not okay to, like, disagree or two. You have, like the idea of like where the tension says in that because I feel like a lot of what's great about disruptive spaces is like we drive up the tension. Yeah, right. We look for that and like, dig into it. So I'm really curious. Like how that plays for you as someone who is, like, in a lot of text bases.

Jason Frazell:   53:54
Yeah, it's a work in progress, like, I think, you know, moving here almost 15 years ago, spending time. And we're like the New York Tech seen over the last five years and then the San Francisco taxing like it's in process thing for me like I've been. I've become much more bold in, like, just saying my piece, but I still my default, like we all have our default. My default is like, Let's make sure I'm likeable. Everybody is having a good time. It's a thing we talked about like our my winning strategy. One of my men of strategies like Before Conflict arises like insert myself and, like, make everybody feel good so that like yeah, flicks and a breakthrough for me this year is actually been on. You may or may not know this, but like there's been that's happened multiple times. Your teammates weren't like I'm out like my natural inquisitions in position, like this person's talking to me in this person's talking, you know, like I'm out figured out which is not natural for me, my natural, like a let me broker. I'm like, a broad like a broker. Like, let me broker a deal on a mediator, and I've actually stepped away from doing that specifically the month Flynn, Olean, Iran. A little mini team game. Yeah, there was many times where I totally unlike Oh, we could step in here like, but I'm actually not going to and I want to like, it's natural for you to step in and make people feel good. No, figure it out. So I think that's actually helped me in my business career. Like with my sales advisory business. Um, seeing that now, just like you need the tension. The thing with the Midwest thing to wrap all this up is like tension is bad. Like you don't want the tension and you want to like each other. You just wanna have fun. And I'm really that attention is like, really good. My dad is my dad is really good at this of allowing, like the natural attention to happen so you can grow from it, right? But It's challenging. It's challenging. And that's just not the way I grew up. I also grew up a Lutheran. Lutherans are very like, generally very nice. It's a very nice religion, you know. You know, you have your potlucks, a church, and you go to Sunday school and everybody is trying to help each other and all that. So for me, this is like the constant, like we all have our, like, one of my battles is the constant, like being true because some of that about me is true. I am very loyal. I am generally a pretty nice person like I do. I do really like people, but also, like, is this serving you by being this nice? So right. That's a great question. I'm glad. I've never talked about that before on the show, so I'm really glad you asked me.

Marie Deveaux:   56:06
Yeah, it's just so interesting. Oh, we're gonna have to talk about this more. Probably at another text. I have

Jason Frazell:   56:13
so many more questions about it. Yeah, well, yeah, especially from you, Like pure bicoastal, right? You're like flyover country. Don't know anything about it. You've traveled work, but you're like, I don't know. I don't know what that's like.

Marie Deveaux:   56:25
I don't do the middle. I don't do the middle at all.

Jason Frazell:   56:28
Yeah, like it's like So, like, the Midwestern thing for me is like when I go to California or New York and people are talking about what they make. And I'm like, What, Like this is not something? No. What? No. You don't talk about money. That's not a thing you do. That's terrible. I mean, people, like, last year I made this and I'm like, Why? So you don't talk about money? That's not a thing like

Marie Deveaux:   56:51
no Wow. Yeah. Interesting culture. Yeah. Fascinating.

Jason Frazell:   56:58
And the other thing with Minnesota Att. Least the high school. I went to us. What kind of school? Out, too. I graduated a big high school. I think we have 550 students, one Jewish kid, one black kid, 548 white white people. And of those 548 white people in my class, if that's the number, seems all right. My guess is that somewhere between 4 50 and 500 of them still live in the Twin cities somewhere, and of those, maybe half probably live like within the three or four towns from where I was from? Uh, just that. Yeah,

Marie Deveaux:   57:34
that's that's, like, crazy to me. Um,

Jason Frazell:   57:37
yeah. Goes back to, like, community and loyalty, community and people's. You live by your parents. I know you don't. You know, you don't live by your parents either. Like we don't either. That's a thing is like, you're loyal and you're together, and you go to church together and like you have all that, um, family dynamics and family Kay? Yeah, very different culture.

Marie Deveaux:   57:56
Yeah, just even like the idea of, like, community. Like I don't like I grew up and a high school. I don't even remember how many kids in my high school, but like, and they're like, 505 100 kids. My graduating class. Um, I could count the African American students on, like, two hands. Um, because I grew up in California, like in, like, the Northern California Bay area. Um, so most of my school was like Asian East Indian kids. Uh,

Jason Frazell:   58:24
okay, that makes sense,

Marie Deveaux:   58:25
right? Like it's I mean, Silicon Valley, it look likes looking valley.

Jason Frazell:   58:30
They just had to Nash, you had the Nash? Uh, yeah, Jamie,

Marie Deveaux:   58:36
but like, even to this day like that was, but like it's just so completely different like. And I looked like my friend circle now, like very much like multicultural cause that's what I'm used to, um, but also, like, I look like kids. I went toe high school, even college with everyone's dispersed on, largely, like if you didn't stay on the West Coast like I grew up in San Jose. So a lot of people ended up in San Francisco in that area they work intact for they're here, They're in New York. They're in New Jersey, like very few people land in the middle. Or if they do, it's gonna be a major metropolitan area like Chicago, Right? Like, um,

Jason Frazell:   59:12
yeah. So the social economic aspect I grew up like one. My dad is a city manager. Very well educated, very smart. My mom very smart as well. But she decided together that they would stay home with us until I was. My mom was home in time, was 18. So we're single a single income family as well. So when my mom got other work to make money, Yeah. So it's just also socioeconomic thing. Yeah, totally different. Yeah, just a just a different world.

Marie Deveaux:   59:36
That's so crazy. My, that's so interesting. Like my I mean, my dad worked in Tak made, like, a butt load of money, but like my mom, um, and both, um, I mean, my mom, uh, my mom's an immigrant. She came here from Jamaica when she was, like in her twenties. Um, and so she didn't get a college degree until after. Ah, my two older siblings were, like, out of the house. Like she got her degree late and then was raising me and my younger brother and then chose to go and get a job. So you were a two income household once. All of the kids were, like, old enough to, like, walk home by themselves. Yeah, right. Yeah.

Jason Frazell:   1:0:11
It's not my thing. Wow. Yeah, we should. It will definitely catch up in this more weight to do a whole episode on Mid Western culture and maybe get a deal, get a panel on. Maybe I'll

Marie Deveaux:   1:0:22
totally do a panel. This is fascinating.

Jason Frazell:   1:0:25
No, it is. I think you like We can have. You can have Emily because she's also a Midwestern Pittsburgh. I know myself. Uh, maybe Devon's from Ohio. Yeah, my wife can come on. And then we could get like, uh, you know, a couple people who drop out here. Yeah, I'll be fine. I'll be really fun. We'll do a full panel podcast. I'll be super cool.

Marie Deveaux:   1:0:43
That would be super cool.

Jason Frazell:   1:0:44
That's awesome. Well, thank you for the question. That was You made me think about a lot of things because it's like it's just, like, inherent to me. It's just like my family is my origin story. So I don't actually, Yeah, that much. Yeah. So thank you for helping me reflect on that. That was really good. Um, so we've got time for a couple more questions. So do you have time for a couple more questions?

Marie Deveaux:   1:1:04
I do have time for a couple more questions.

Jason Frazell:   1:1:05
Right. So now you put me on the hot seat, I'm gonna put you back on the hot seat. Oh, here. We got it. Exactly. What's it like we're off to California with parents make money? No, I'm kidding. What's summary? What's something that you're afraid might actually be true about you?

Marie Deveaux:   1:1:21
Oh, that. I mean, I'm a mean person. How

Jason Frazell:   1:1:25
do you compensate?

Marie Deveaux:   1:1:27
Um Oh, interesting. Well, how do I compensate? Now, I think I'm, like, very specific things. Like Well, in my e mails, say the thing, I'll go back to the top and had the niceties like, uh, just because I mean, I just I know myself to be, like a very direct person, A very direct communicator. So I'm very conscious of that. Think about, like, the way that I phrased things the way that I communicate things to people. Um, so that hopefully they think they're not taking it personally, which sometimes I feel like it's a little bit of like, self censoring, um, at times just for the for the sake of others so that they don't think that I mean, um, so, yeah, there's a little bit of that, like sometimes I don't say the thing you look like. Yeah. Yeah, I

Jason Frazell:   1:2:16
have a question. You have a question for you.

Marie Deveaux:   1:2:18
Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Frazell:   1:2:19
Are you mean

Marie Deveaux:   1:2:22
No, I'm not mean. That I can be mean, but I'm not.

Jason Frazell:   1:2:29
I can see where people that air not used to the direct talk would think that it's mean, But I think you're a good example of just like you just call it like it is it's like what we're talking about, like you would be mean in Minnesota. A lot of people like Oh, like this is this person that she was like knows she's got a voice and she just says what she sees people like, you know, like that's uncomfortable. There's tension there. No, this feel hunters conflict about to happen? No,

Marie Deveaux:   1:2:56
but it's, I think, a lot of acid. You like your relationship, the conflict Like I remember, like old and I had a thing a couple of months ago, and in her view, she was like, Oh, yeah, we had an argument. I was like, we had a conversation very different. What? Lance is an argument with

Jason Frazell:   1:3:13
some people. Yeah, and then you guys hug it out. It was all good.

Marie Deveaux:   1:3:17
And then

Jason Frazell:   1:3:17
and then and then she had some feelings, and you had a little bit of feelings that it's all good.

Marie Deveaux:   1:3:22
Yeah, And then I stopped my feelings way down deep, and then we could

Jason Frazell:   1:3:24
have a fantastic I Totally I totally appreciate that. And, uh, advocate for that for that process because it's the same thing. I do?

Marie Deveaux:   1:3:33
Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Frazell:   1:3:34
Then we go and do what you're really cool stuff. It's great.

Marie Deveaux:   1:3:37
Yeah, That's how that's how we keep the universe in balance.

Jason Frazell:   1:3:40
Exactly. Um, so wrapping up for today first, I want to thank you for being on. It's been awesome to talk with you. And I learned a ton about you and we like So we spend a ton of time together this year, and I'm sure we will continue to spend time together, but really fun to learn about you. So from our conversation days or anything else that's come up that you wanted to go back on, that you'd like to share with the audience at this point.

Marie Deveaux:   1:4:04
Oh, that's interesting. Um, no, I don't think so. Now I mean, nothing that we can, like, wrap up in the next couple of minutes. Put in the show notes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jason Frazell:   1:4:21
Um, so, first of all, I will put all this in the show notes as well. But if you wanna let the audience know, where can they find you? If they wanna get connected to you, learn more about your coaching. Your public speaking trading. Ah, you know what it means to Tran Thio? Sell annuities or bisque annuities if they want if they want some good straight talk, Whatever. All the things you off. If I do all the things

Marie Deveaux:   1:4:45
all the things on my website Marie tivo dot com You can pop in, get a virtual coffee with me. We can chat it out. That's the best way. Uh,

Jason Frazell:   1:4:55
it is not your forms, like, do you want me to be? Maybe or not, Like, check it

Marie Deveaux:   1:4:58
out. It's not It's not an option. You just get what you get and you don't get a sec. Um, also, I mean, I most like I'm on LinkedIn. You could reach out to me on LinkedIn again. Marie deveaux. Um, I'm on Facebook. You know, all the places where the ocean people are.

Jason Frazell:   1:5:11
Well, this stuff Yeah, the social stuff. Cool. Yeah. Good. So last thing leave us with some words of wisdom in these words of wisdom. They have to fit on, like, I don't know, like a post it note or something you could put on your computer desktop. So don't write us a grant. A grant proposal here. Oh, I'm just looking for the drop. Drop us. Um, drop us. Um, uh, Marie Wisdom and make it fit on a post. What would you like to leave you with

Marie Deveaux:   1:5:36
this Damn on a post it out? Well, I can think of a lot of other people's words of wisdom, so I'm trying not to

Jason Frazell:   1:5:45
is great. Yeah, whatever. Whatever. It's great.

Marie Deveaux:   1:5:49
Um, well, something that comes to mind just in the nature of this conversation is you can't be great until you're good and you can't be good until you're bad. And before you're bad, you have to try.

Jason Frazell:   1:6:01
I love that I will. I love that. Cause that's my philosophy as well. You got said the whole thing of practice equals production. You're not gonna be good. When you started anything,

Marie Deveaux:   1:6:12
it's like the first time. Just prepare for it to be terrible. And then you can get that one out the way,

Jason Frazell:   1:6:18
right? A supposed to It's gonna be terrible. So I'm just actually never gonna do it, so I'm never gonna try that thing. So instead, I get to play small and no, actually, give it a try. Exactly. Exactly. Well, thank you again. So much for you for being on today. It's an absolute pleasure. Yeah, This was fighting each other soon. I think