Living Compassionately: Insights from Colleen Patrick-Goudreau

Link for the show notes

In today’s episode of The World Vegan Travel Podcast, we’re joined by the incredible Colleen Patrick-Goudreau — author, speaker, and long-time advocate for compassionate living. Colleen has been at the forefront of the plant-based movement for nearly 30 years, and her work has inspired thousands to live more ethically and sustainably. She’s here to talk about her brand-new book, A Year of Compassion: 52 Weeks of Living Zero-Waste, Plant-Based, and Cruelty-Free. In our conversation, we explore how we can bring more compassion into our everyday lives — especially while traveling — and how small actions can have a powerful impact. Whether you’re a seasoned vegan traveler or just starting out, this episode is full of thoughtful ideas to inspire your next adventure.

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Transcript

Brighde: Hello, Colleen. Welcome to The World Vegan Travel Podcast again.



Colleen: Thanks Brighde. Thanks for having me back.



Brighde: I am so thrilled to have you on the podcast because some exciting things are afoot for you at the time of recording this podcast. And that is the release of another book, your newest book, A Year of Compassion: 52 Weeks of Living Zero-Waste, Plant-Based, and Cruelty-Free. Can you tell us what inspired this book, and can you tell us about this book? Yes. 



Thank 



Colleen: you. As you said, it's a mouthful. The subtitle is 52 Weeks of Living, zero Waste, Plant-Based and Cruelty-Free. I purposefully chose 52 weeks because there's so many books out there. There's so many directives, blogs, 365 Ways of Making a Difference, 101 Ways of Changing the World, and all the things that can be true, but also overwhelming. And so I wanted it to feel accessible and doable for people. And I also wanted to really focus on the things that are the most effective. So you can choose 101 things, and not all of them are going to have the same impact. Positive impact. I love the idea that each week people have an opportunity to contemplate, decide, plan for, reorient themselves, both in terms of the way they're seeing the world and thinking about the world, as well as to how they operate in the world. So that was my intention. And several years ago, I kind of shared with my audience that I had this kind of zero waste awakening around plastic consumption. But really just understanding my role in consumption of things, not just food, and what responsible discard looked like. So that's a longer way of saying shortcut zero waste. Now, it just continues to evolve. And so I wanted to incorporate all of what I've learned and what I know has inspired my audience through the podcast and other ways, into a book. I could say now this is 20 years of writing books, that, if you see a new book out by me, it's because I'm on that journey too, right? So this is what I do in my life. If there's a new book, anything, is usually coming out of the experience that I'm having, and what I'm learning, and how I'm growing. And I want to share that with you.



Brighde: Fantastic. As well as it being broken up into weeks, it's also broken up into sustainability, plant-based eating, cruelty-free living. So how does travel fit into that message? For sure.



So travel fits into the message of compassion and living compassionately because it's an extension of who we are and the values we have. So whatever we do in our lives, whether it's traveling or seeing a friend or walking your dog or whatever job you take, all of that is an extension of who we are. So travel is just another opportunity to reflect our values. Specifically around the sustainability and plant-based eating and cruelty-free, obviously, touches on travel because all of those things are relevant wherever we go. So zero waste, obviously, there's a lot to say, and so zero waste might sound very specific to people who are thinking of plastic free, but it's larger than that. Let's talk about it in terms of sustainability. Travel touches on that in terms of how we travel and where we go. How we eat when we're there and what kind of activities we might participate in. So going backwards, cruelty-free, talks a lot about making sure we avoid animal cruelty. We've talked a bit about that on the podcast. I've talked about it on my podcast. Avoiding things that are obvious to people, but then also some things that are not so obvious. So I talk about those in the book, obvious things like not riding elephants. If you're in places where they offer those, could be not riding in horse-drawn carriages if you're in New York City. There might be some less obvious things like; if they tell you that an elephant painting is something they love, and you're actually supporting their wellbeing, you have to know enough before you go ahead to know. That's just not true. So I talk about those kind of things and then things in terms of cruelty-free, which also ties into plant-based, which is consuming plants and celebrating all of the plant-based regional delicacies in the place you go. So we talk about that. And then in terms of sustainability. So like I said, in terms of how you travel, but also what you buy when you there. If you buy anything at all, in terms of not bringing things into our lives that we're not going to be able to value or have room for or we're going to throw out or it's going to be cheap and so we're going to just discard it soon. So those are the kinds of things, I think, travel touches on those topics in those ways. 



Thank you. So what are some of the principles in your book that compassion-minded and sustainably-minded people can incorporate to the travel? Like this kind of principles to live by. 



Colleen: Principles to travel by would be the same principles we want to live by. One of the things I talk about a lot, is how we orient to the world and what we expect in terms of whatever situation we're going into. I am so interested in the fact that I still hear the same questions again, and again, related to travel and veganism. When people say, 'Oh, how do you find food as a vegan in name a place?' And it's like the protein question for us, as being vegan because I just think, oh my gosh, it's not that we can't find food. It's at the foundation of the cultures anywhere in the world were plant-based. This idea that it's only animal based. Now, it's true over the last hundred years, has become cheaper and we have made it cheaper for people to consume animal products every single meal, every single day. Obviously that's not sustainable, but that's what people think, and that's what they expect. And so that's how they orient. So they think, 'Oh, if you're vegan, that must be impossible to find things wherever you go.' So what I try to convey is, we need to orient to the fact that, no, it's not that we can't find it. It's that it's there because that's the foundation of this country you're in. So I talk about that, related to Japan. I just did a podcast episode on all of the Japanese foods that are already plant-based. And it's not that you don't know to ask a couple things in a country like Japan, 'Hey, are you putting, bonito flakes and seafood flakes,' whatever they are. Putting animal products in my food. A couple things to ask when you're in Japan, but the majority then of what you'd be able to enjoy is plant-based. It's completely acceptable to ask for pizza without cheese. In fact, you don't even have to, right? Because in Italy you can just find a marinara pizza on every menu because that's traditional. Then you're orienting in a way that is going to give you a much more positive experience, and feels like abundance rather than deprivation. And that goes for the cruelty-free. That goes for the sustainability as well. If you're orienting to, how can I make the most positive impact, and least negative impact, whatever I'm doing, whatever I'm eating, 



Brighde: whatever activities I'm participating in. Then you're golden and you're going to be able to reflect your values of compassion, and wellness, and you're going to be able to enjoy wherever it is you're going.



I completely agree with what you're saying. It's like when we do anything new, there's always this learning curve. There's always this storming before you're norming and then you figure out that, 'Oh, maybe I can just ask a restaurant to refill my water bottle before I leave,' rather than, 'That's completely acceptable.' And they don't mind it, and you try it out, and they actually really don't mind doing that at all for you. And then you're like, 'Oh, maybe all restaurants would do that.' You just got to be prepared. A bit of effort make possible potential discomfort. But then you climb that learning curve and it just becomes a habit. And you increasing confidence too. I.



Colleen: love it. I think you're speaking very much from a personal perspective when we talk about discomfort, right? It's something I keep in mind all the time when I'm offering guidance like this because not everybody's personality is the same. The chapter in the 30 day Vegan Challenge about finding food in restaurants, if you're vegan. The chapter is not called How to Find Food in Restaurants if You're Vegan, it is called eating out and speaking up.' And it's the same principle you're talking about here; traveling, restaurants, hotels, whatever. It is about orienting to the people you're asking for what you want from, to assuming that they want to help you. These are people in the hospitality industry. So you would presume that, right? So come from that place of; they want to help me. And also, that you are paying. So this idea of discomfort and what can I ask for and what shouldn't I ask for, in a very respectful, kind way. I don't mean you'd be a jerk about it, but you're a paying customer. Just seeing it as an opportunity for connection and communication and connection with somebody else. So, you're absolutely right. Some people might just cringe at that, but I think, like you said, the more you do it, the more confidence you get. Especially when you go, 'Oh, they want to help me. They gave me what I want.'



Brighde: Yeah, absolutely.



 So I'm curious, I'm wondering, have you had any personal travel experiences that really shaped what you wrote in the book, and maybe some stories or examples from your travels that you put in the book as well?



Colleen: I think again, because it's just a reflection of how I live in this world, that's all there. And so was there anything specific? Not when I was writing the book, but just more of the general experience, some of what we just talked about, of the joy of asking for what you want, and having people respond very kindly. In terms of food, I remember many years ago, when I started traveling, mostly domestically. I was vegetarian before that. So yeah, I remember just reaching out to bed and breakfast. We used to travel a lot more to bed and breakfasts, and I remember those emails that I would send. And same kind of thing. We need to be the one to provide some resources that will help them help us.



Brighde: Yeah.



Colleen: So I'm thinking, for instance, when I used to write those emails to bed and breakfast, I would say, 'Hey, we're vegan. Just want to let you know we're fine with fruit, oatmeal, and whatever. Do you have plant-based milk? Or we could bring it. And I would say, 'And if you're interested, I'm a cookbook author, and even if you're not a cookbook author, I have recipes. I could provide you with some recipes.' And those who said no, then it wasn't the right fit anyway. When we raise the bar, it raises, and people kind of rise to it. And I think that's one of the most beautiful things because this is just about connection with other people. Our partners have had the experience in places where we are asking for what we want. This is before we were doing the trips together, when we were just traveling on our own together. I'm remembering Scotland. We remember that meal at Lucky Castle as being one of the best meals because they really pride themselves on their kind of high end food and service. And for them to just take as seriously, the food for us as they took for everybody else. We didn't just get iceberg lettuce and french fries. 



Brighde: We really didn't we? Oh my gosh. For listeners, we were hiking the West Highland Way which is a long distance trail. I think seven or eight days in total through the countryside. So you're staying in like little pubs in the middle of relatively nowhere and not a huge vegan abundance there, I would say.



Colleen: A lot of french fries, a lot of pizza, and just mixed accommodations. And that place we upgraded to this Castle Hotel, and they just took it so seriously. They just really made us feel like the special paying customers we were. But that only comes from asking for what you want, but only comes from asking. So yeah, those kinds of experiences are always pleasant. Even though I'm saying that I expect hospitality. We were always pleasantly surprised when they go above and beyond.



Brighde: Absolutely. Absolutely. So what are some simple ways travelers can make their trips more compassionate to animals, to people, and the planet? I'm curious.



Colleen: So let's talk about animals. I would say any preparation you can do before you go anywhere is going to pay dividends. You just can't assume. So you can't assume that you're not going to be in a situation where someone might bamboozle you into an activity that you think is not okay, but is definitely not okay. And by the way, go with your gut. Go with your gut when you are in those situations. But if you do preparation beforehand, you know where you're going, you know where you're traveling to. So do some research beforehand about what kinds of activities that involve animal exploitation and animal cruelty there would be so that you're prepared ahead of time. There will be people who are going to try to sell you things. And I remember talking to a friend who was vegan. And this was probably a trip they did about 20 years ago. And I remember, she and her husband at the time, and I remember her telling me about it. They were in South Africa, and they were telling me about a place where they could walk cubs. It was called a sanctuary and it was a retreat, and they were orphaned. There was no way to release them back into the wild. And so they gave this opportunity for travelers to walk them. No, there is no world in which that is okay. So I would say, rule of thumb, if there is any kind of interaction with you and a wild animal; period, full stop, period, full stop. Domesticated animals. I mean, dogs, cats different situation. Even the elephants in Thailand is different situation because they're technically domesticated but even those places, you have to be really careful because they know that people are looking for things that say sanctuary, retreat. You know, compassion. So you have to just kinda be on your toes. The other thing I would say, besides doing your own research, is, before you go anywhere, get the phone number of organizations that are rescue organizations in that city that you're going to be in. Because the worst feeling in the world is when you see an animal who's in distress, and you have no idea who to call. You feel incredibly helpless and powerless and angry and sad. So those kinds of things, just preparing before you travel, I think, it will make it so much better if you do encounter those situations. And I would say, honestly, expect to see those kinds of situations. So prepare for that. Practice self-compassion yourself as well. And then on the other hand, I would say on the positive side, and this is what we obviously do on our trips, is go support the organizations that are doing the amazing work in whatever country you're going to. Find the farmed animal sanctuary. Find the wildlife refuge. Find the people, the advocates who are doing the work in this world that are saving the animals in the place you're going to visit. If you are with children, obviously not going to animal circuses, but going to, human performances. Go to a sanctuary, a proper sanctuary, wherever you go.



Brighde: There are so many of these places now, and there are so many opportunities to help by visiting or by being a flight volunteer. Like for example, taking a dog back to their new forever home as excess luggage on your flight. There's just so many ways that you can support these animal organizations when you travel now, it's really cool.



Colleen: The places that offer volunteer opportunities could be part of your vacation or extend any trip that you're doing, right? I'm remembering Jennifer. After our Thailand trip was over, she stuck around and she volunteered at that elephant sanctuary for 10 days more.



Brighde: Yeah. Yeah. Super fun. Yeah, really nice. Cool. Alright, so there are some countries that are like super vegan-friendly, and there are some countries where options are a little more sparse. Do you have any tips for finding edible vegan food when you are traveling to these places? Like the southwest of France springs to mind.



Colleen: Well, the answer is travel on a World Vegan Travel trip. That's the first answer. The second answer is, again, preparing number one. Number two, doing some research about what foods are already naturally by default, plant-based, that just happen to be plant-based, right? Great example, you know, in parts of France. But I mean, the point is, like there are vegetable based dishes that are prevalent in these areas. Will they always be in restaurants? Not necessarily, because restaurants are catering to people who go out to eat and are looking for kind of a richer experience. Just thinking of France. Sorry, France, love you. But thinking of you. At least you knowing what dishes would be more traditional in that region. Then when you say to the restaurant, 'Could you make this?' And I'm going to get to how to actually convey this. 'Can you make this for me? I'm vegan.' You can say, you know, like a ratatouille, you know, so something like that, like a vegetable stew, like knowing that they already, that's already in their 



Brighde: zeitgeist.



Yeah.



Yeah. 



Colleen: So you're not asking them to make you a beyond burger, right? So knowing what they're already eating. I think is really helpful. I really do think it's fine. Learn how to say, 'I'm vegan' in that country's language. But honestly, people in English don't know what vegan means. 



Brighde: We've come a long way in the past 10 years, but, there's still some misconceptions for some people.



Colleen: There's misconceptions. Some people aren't really clear what that means. Some people think it means oil-free, gluten-free, vegetarian, pescatarian. So even here in Oakland, I would not go into a restaurant and say, 'Hi, I'm Vegan. Can you tell me what's vegan and what's not vegan?' I would say, 'Hi, we're vegan, so can you tell us if there's anything that has dairy, butter, animal meat, animal milk?' That kind of thing. So be specific. And so I think whatever country you're traveling to, learn in that country's language how to say meat, dairy, eggs. And then you can very easily say no and shake your head. So I just think that dispenses with any confusion about what vegan.



Brighde: The last thing I would say is tips, general, but also specific, is keep in mind wherever you're traveling, just keep in mind why you're going.



Colleen: When we went to Scotland and we did that West Highland Way trek, when David and I went to Ireland. I did not go there because I thought I was going to get the haute cuisine. 



Brighde: I'd like to add Bhutan, when Seb and I went to Bhutan, not haute cuisine either. Sorry to interrupt, but another example.



Colleen: Exactly. And you didn't go there for the cuisine. You didn't go there for that. And where would I go for that? So if I'm going on a foodie trip, if I'm going to Japan, I think, it's very much a foodie trip.



Brighde: Vietnam, Thailand, amazing for food. 



Colleen: And Italy, right? So, for sure. But the point is, there's all those other things that are part of these places as well. The culture, the people, the history. So create your expectations or set your expectations so that you're not expecting what you would normally get at home or in a high-end restaurant here. And just set your expectations, because I think then you'll be like, okay, what's the priority today? The priority is to feel full, to feel like we have the energy so that we can go, tour around. And then you're not disappointed if you feel like, 'Hey, I'm really only getting french fries and pizza.' It really depends on where you are.



Brighde: Yeah. Yeah. Something I've noticed that, separately, can happen with Seb and I. Seb, particularly, likes to go to the restaurant that he really wants to go to. We will go really far out of our way, and I'm like, 'We've spent six hours today sourcing food. Don't we want to be going to this incredible museum or checking out this castle,' or whatever it is. I mean, I don't think we intentionally made that decision, but sometimes at the end of the day, I'm thinking, wow, was that really the best use of our day in this limited time? That we have, in this incredible destination, that's not known for food anyway.



Colleen: I know, from what you speak. I have traveled with Seb, and I have a really good friend. She's one of my best friends. We were with her down in Santa Barbara. They live in LA, and we were in Santa Barbara, and we spent so much time, she and her husband, to go finding food. I'm like, we're in Santa Barbara. We're not going to have trouble finding food. But the amount of time and energy that some vegans, shout out one of my besties. I think one of the things that they're trying to prioritize, is going to a vegan restaurant. Like obviously, we want to support vegan restaurants, but you're absolutely right, you have to weigh. Okay, but is it two hours away, or if it's going to take three hours out of our day and we're not going to get to go see this museum, but we had food at the vegan restaurant. I know, make a donation to them. If you really make a go, give someone a gift certificate to the restaurant. If you really want to support them. But then, yeah, go, please go and see the museum. That's just how I feel. And then of course, there's resources people can find; the vegan restaurants. We know how to do that with Happy Cow and all those other resources.



Brighde: Excellent. Yes. Mindset is key. I think with so many things, and especially this. 



So you've traveled to quite a few countries now, and we've been lucky that we've got to discover so many countries together. What's one country or city that has pleasantly surprised you in terms of its vegan options?



Colleen: I remember our experience in Zimbabwe.



Brighde: Yes.



I think about that 



Colleen: a lot.. Yeah. It was just one of these things where, you know, again, it's nice to be oriented to what is positive, but it's also nice to really be surprised. And yeah. and we were only there for 24 hours, and we had gone to see the falls, and we were hungry. And Zimbabwe is a very meat heavy country. I had really very low expectations. We knew it was going to be like french fries and pizza again. We passed by this old colonial hotel. And we looked, and we were like, oh, we'll just find something. And we saw something that said polenta, and we're like, wait a second. Oh, there's a couple things. And we saw this quinoa chickpea burger, and it said vegan. And we were like, whoa. Then we went inside to ask more questions about that, and it turned out they had the entire freezer full of all of the.. 



Brighde: Fries. I think it is the South African vegan meat company.



Colleen: Exactly. So they had sausages, and chicken patties, and nuggets, everything. We were just so thrilled because, the sad thing, is that they had them tucked in a freezer, and didn't think anybody would ever want them. So they weren't really advertising them well, and marketing them well, but we were just so thrilled. So those are the kinds of things where, you know, just hope for the best, and also be surprised, when you didn't expect it. So those are the kind of fun things. But certainly, in terms of just, would I be surprised by anything? Everywhere else, our favorite places in Italy and everything. We've had some incredible meals in these places. But it's more of those moments where you just don't expect it.



Brighde: I'm thinking of a place, a food experience that we had together, that we certainly didn't expect. I think you'll remember when I started explaining it. It started off with Seb rushing over to us across a square saying, 'You have to come and have a look at this.' Do you remember that one? Are we thinking of the same place? What was it? Do you remember?



Colleen: We were at the Christmas market in Southern Germany and Bavaria, and a place that is very meat heavy, again.



Was 



Brighde: it Rothenberg?



Colleen: It was, I think, 



Brighde: yeah.



It was. ROH-ten-boork, I think they say it. Just for the German speakers out there. I remember, before we went on that trip, which is, southern part of Germany, very different than Berlin. I know Berlin is topsy for finding food for vegans, but is a very meat centric area in the south. And I remember we were talking to a friend who's German, who is not from that area, but has his opinions about that area, and was like, good luck getting any food. You're not going to find any food. And first of all, I was like, yes, we will. The same principle I shared earlier, number two, we're getting an Airbnb. I'm assuming grocery stores have produce even though it was the winter, but to be at a Christmas market, and where many of the stalls sell sausages and bratwurst and everything. And for Seb doing his food recon... constantly looking for food. And food that Seb wants. He's not looking for the fancy haute cuisine. He ran back over to us and said, 'There's vegan, there's vegan sausages and bratwursts!' And what have you. We thought it was just one place. But then as we went to different Christmas markets around Southern Germany, around Bavaria, they actually, they seem to have a stall. This one company in nearly all of the Christmas markets. So we got to eat fabulous vegan sausages and what have you, at every single market. It was super fun.



Colleen: It was fun.



Brighde: So something that I really appreciate and admire about you, Colleen, is that you are very clear about how you communicate with people. And I've seen you do it so many times, and I think that's a big part of the answer to this question. But I'm just wondering, like language barriers that can be, strike the fear of God into people sometimes. And oh my god, they're not going to understand me, and they're going to serve me this, that and the other. I don't know how I'm going to be able to ask for this. So do you have any tips on how to deal with language barriers?



Colleen: Thank you for saying that. That's very sweet. The same principles I would use where you don't have language barriers, I would say, difficulty, I think, we have with each other as human beings, isn't language, it's communication. Mm So even when we don't speak the language in the country, we're in the country we're in. I think if we prioritize what communication looks like, we're not going to have any trouble asking for what we want, even if we don't speak that language. And that goes for remembering the people whose language we share. We have to prioritize communication and connection. I talk in the beginning of the book about why I framed all of this with compassion. I could easily have said, live eco-friendly, be conscious. I could have used other words that are green, that are more in the zeitgeist of sustainability. But compassion, it resonates with me. Obviously, it's the foundation of my work and my life. Really, what it comes down to, is recognizing that there is no distance and separation between us. It's connection. It's knowing that whatever I do impacts you, whatever you do, impacts me negatively and positively. So it's about connection and communication. So I would say, make those the foundation of your intention when you're asking for what you want, and help them help you. When I get annoyed at people or vegans, is when there's just a presumption, just an entitlement that we think that people are going to understand the world the way we do. Yeah. That everyone's looking through the same lens as we are. And even if someone might make a mistake, and even if someone's defensive, it's because they're afraid, and they don't know. And I think with the compassion we can bring to these situations, is to kind of go in with best intentions. Know that they have the best intentions. And be joyful, and be clear.



Brighde: Yeah.



Colleen: Ask for what you want, but do it joyfully. If it's not perfect after that, I think, still praising them, because as much as I talk about how we shouldn't feel the pressure of being vegan that is representing all vegans. The truth is, we at that moment, are the vegan representing all vegans. Yeah. We're the human representing humans. So let's be the best human we can be. I know I'm answering this a bit, nebulously. I think that the other part specifically, would be what we already said. Learn some words, use Google Translate, use your phone. Write it on your Google translate, and it'll translate for you in that language. So there's ways to have better direct communication to get what we want. But I want to just keep conveying that. Making communication rather than language our priority. I think we'll have so many more positive experiences with each other.



Brighde: I agree. And I just wanted to add to this. The entitled figure. Entitlement is just not a very attractive trait, no matter what, who you are, what you do, and what you believe. It's just not a very nice trait at all. Especially when you are traveling. So just whatever you're being entitled about, just try not to do it. It's just not nice.



Colleen: Agreed, agreed.



Brighde: So what are some ways that travelers could maybe reduce their footprint as they're traveling?



Colleen: I would say the most impactful thing you could do, is eat plant-based wherever you go.



Brighde: Yeah.



Colleen: It's one of the largest areas that we have the most negative impact when it comes to climate change, when it comes to water resources, when it comes to land use. All the things. So truthfully, the number one thing we can do, is eat plant-based. Make sure we're ordering plant-based wherever we go. The second thing, obviously, fossil fuels, that's one of the main things in our own daily lives. We need to be mindful of, in terms of what we drive or if we walk or if we take public transportation. What kind of car we have, heating system we have in our house. There's a lot of things we can do every day. And then, of course, when we travel. There is obviously fossil fuels when we're flying. And of course, I know, that there's a temptation for people to look at us. And I'm writing a book about sustainability, and I'm talking about living, to have the lightest footprint on the planet. And sure, I could be that person that says, 'I'm never going to fly again.' And anyone who wants to make that commitment, they can do that. I just think, we've talked about offsets before, right? I think we've talked about offsets in terms of flying and there's different organizations that have offsets. We look to the outside for the solutions, and forget that there's a lot of things we can do to offset it in our own lives. I'll be honest with you, I know I am aware that I'm creating fossil fuel, greenhouse gas emissions when I'm flying. I'm also aware that I have been vegan for 26 years, that I have no children, that I drive an electric vehicle, that I mostly walk and don't drive even though we have an electric vehicle. All the things I do in my life to have the lightest footprint possible. Could you say that those are offsets for the flights that I do? Is that an excuse? Maybe. But in the end, we're always going to make trade-offs. It's just the way it is. If you are someone who wants to travel and you're feeling guilty about that. Then what are some ways that you can offset in your own life, to feel like you are making an impact. More than just sending an offset amount to an organization planting trees. In where? Do you not know? Plant a tree in your own backyard. I'm in the middle of rewilding our property and working with my neighbors to do that. And I can't wait to share more about this on my podcast about this. I'm in the middle of writing that episode now. Planting trees, planting native plants to attract native pollinators. Those are offsets to everything we do. So I would say, we're going to have an impact on this world. It's where we want to have the negative impact, and where we want have the positive impact. So one thing that was interesting when I was researching the book, specifically on the transportation chapter, was on flights and greenhouse gas emissions. So this is something I thought was interesting, and I've been implementing it in our own lives. Now, we do drive an electric vehicle. So we do a lot of road trips locally in California. We've met in Oregon together. You guys coming down from the North. Us coming up from the South. And so when we can do road trips and drive our EV, that is going to be the best thing you can do, period. So definitely switching to an electric vehicle if you can do that, it is incredibly impactful. And the cost of solar, renewable energy, and electric vehicles, have come down just 10 x. So they're more affordable than there've ever been before. In terms of flights. What was interesting is, because there's so many greenhouse gas emissions used during takeoff and landing, one of the things that came out in the data that I was looking at, is for flights that are less than 600 miles. what was interesting, is flights that are fewer than 600 miles use a lot emissions. So this is one of the reasons why you don't want to do a lot of stopovers. Everytime you're on a flight you're using a huge number of emissions. So when you can use an electric vehicle to do road trips or to take a trip, we live in Oakland. We can drive down to LA, we can drive up to, Portland, Seattle, whatever. Wherever you are, use your electric vehicle to drive rather than fly. And then when you are doing the longer haul flights, there are a lot of things you can do. One of the things is packing light. I'd love to talk about that. We can definitely talk about that. Doing carry-ons.. So the less weight that's in the plane, the less fuel they're going to need. And so there's a lot of those little things that we can do when it comes to flying. But I thought that was really interesting, in terms of if you're going to make a decision, in terms of flying or driving, but the driving will be more impactful if it's an EV. If it's a gasoline car, it's not going to be as good. And then wherever you travel, even if you're home, walk. Use public transportation. Of course, when we're traveling in Europe, we have the luxury of doing that because the train system in Europe is just stellar. We don't have as much of that option in the United States. So make those options. And then if you're renting a car somewhere, then see if you can rent an electric vehicle or a hybrid.



Brighde: Yeah, Seb always tries to do that, if at all possible.



Colleen: Yeah.



Brighde: Even though you only pack carry-on, you still bring some things that most people would not bring, so that you can reduce your plastic consumption. Can you talk about what those are please? 



 What are some zero waste travel essentials that you never leave home without?



Colleen: I'm going to take that question. I'm going to bundle it with, because I want to talk about carry-ons so badly because we have the luxury of being able to travel and do carry-ons, Brighde and Seb are not. 



Brighde: Well, to be fair, we are often having to bring a ton of stuff.



Colleen: Well, that's what I mean. But you've often asked us to carry stuff and we're like, 'No.' We want to keep our carry-on. You have to bring so much stuff for the trips. I know you're already checking bags. We, David and I ,just will do everything. We will bend over backwards to not check bags. And sometimes it's really annoying because when we're with you guys, we still have to wait for the bags anyway. Because, obviously, you guys have checked bags, but for the most part, no. So when David and I travel, we do not check bags. One reason is very practical. We just do not want to deal with the hassle of losing our luggage. And God knows, we have seen many of our travelers lose their luggage or it's delayed, and it's not there when they get there. So we just don't want that hassle. We just really prefer to hang onto our bags. But from a zero waste perspective and from a sustainability perspective, it is better because it is lighter. I just feel like I'm also just being a better fellow traveler with my, I don't know. I like following the rules, Brighde. I know. It sounds like I'm a non-conformist, but I actually really like following the rules, and it does annoy me when people come on the plane with massive bags, and they're trying to game the system. You're just buying less stuff because you know you can't fit in the carry-on. But I think that's one of the zero waste principles as well, is that you're just really experiencing the place you're in. What's really sweet, and you might remember this, is when we were on a Rwanda trip, I think in 2022. A number of my followers had been on the trip and they had basically taken my advice, and like just did a carry-on. And then they wanted to buy all the stuff for friends and family, which is so fine. And they wound up buying luggage while they were there.



Brighde: Yeah, it was pretty funny, and panicking about it.



Colleen: And then there was someone else, I remember, whenever one of our travelers, the same was that same trip. I think her luggage broke. It was a carry-on and she was lugging it all over the place, and it was heavy, and it was hard. So having the right carry-on luggage also helps because you want it to be comfortable for you and you want it to be pleasant. But yeah. And so the thing that shocks people is that I bring all of the shoes that I want. I bring all of the dresses that I want to wear. It's harder when it's winter, but I bring all the winter clothes when it's wintertime and we travel. And I do bring all of my zero waste toiletries. I do bring all of the things that really matter. I make room for those things. Like I will not bring something else. Maybe I won't bring an extra pair of pants because I want to make room for my zero waste toiletries. Now that could be like shampoo bars and shampoo, conditioner or conditioner bars. It could be our wonderful, lovely friends at Plaine Products who are amazing. And they have all of the travel sizes for the shampoo, the conditioner, the body lotion, the face wash, whatever. And they have very graciously donated their products for our trips, and have sponsored our little gift bags for everybody. You have to decide what's priority. You just have to decide what's priority. I will say this because there's always a caveat depending on where you go. You're just going to have to also let go. When we go to Rwanda, when we go to places where the water isn't potable, it is not an option to drink the water. I mean, there are ways to do it. There are obviously the tablets you can do and the special straws you can do. But if you're really worried about that ,and you don't want to get sick, then you're going to drink bottled water. Now you can decide how far you go with that. I've told the story, my podcast, when I was in New Jersey visiting my mother before she died. And I was staying in an Airbnb. And this happens when I go see my sister as well in Florida. They don't have compost systems there. I'm so used being able to compost every vegetable scrap, and they also don't recycle. What am I going to do? When I was in New Jersey, I actually tell the story about how I found a vegan restaurant who worked with Rutgers University in their sustainability department. And they would bring all of their scraps to them. So I said, can I drop off a bag of vegetable scraps before I go to the airport, the ones that I've accumulated, because I was keeping it in the freezer. And they said yes, and I was thrilled by that. Is everybody going to go through that every time they travel? No. I make my husband do it. My husband has learned, I'm going to take vegetable scraps. I'm going to take all the peels and the waste, and the pips, and everything, wherever we travel. We've done this when we were in Oregon, right? Keep it in the freezer and then we can drive home, and I can put it in my compost. So when you can, great. 



Brighde: Yeah. I agree. 



Great.



How can travelers responsibly engage with wildlife without causing harm, in your opinion?



Colleen: I hope that's a question that we all ask ourselves on an everyday basis wherever we are. Not just for travel. And I will reiterate, creating your own backyard wildlife habitat. Creating spaces for them to feel safe. To have food, to have water, to have cover. I'll say this, I didn't think I was going to go in this direction. Something's coming in my brain. And what is coming to my brain is, I talk a lot about using language that doesn't kinda demonize or minimize the role that wild animals play in our world, right? We talk about them as past or we talk about them as nuisances. I really encourage people to really recognize that they are contributors, they are our neighbors, they are our residents. That's how we can act all the time wherever we are. And wherever you are, and wherever you're going, there is an opportunity to just enjoy and



Brighde: Just be.



Colleen: The concept of forest bathing, which is such a beautiful term. It's what we're talking about. It's what brings me more joy than anything in the world, is being in nature. Is watching the birds, is just watching the behavior, but knowing that I'm creating a space that's a shared space. And even though you and I and people listening have gone, and will go to places to see the wildlife in the countries that are around the world, places we can't see them otherwise. The mountain gorillas are a perfect example. They don't live anywhere else except the mountains in Uganda and Congo and Rwanda. Also remember, you have so much wildlife right there where you are. They might not seem as exotic to you because there's skunks, there's raccoons, there's possums, there's badgers. There are birds. I see them every day. They are exotic if you're not looking through that lens. They're different and new. And so try and use your own area, your own parks, your own backyard as a nature conservancy and look at it through that lens. Pretend you're traveling where ever you live. Then when you are traveling, go find those opportunities. There's always going to be the places we want to just tick the box and go to the museum, and go to that place, and go to that site. Fine. Get out and go on a hike. I think some of our favorite memories traveling together, the four of us. I remember when we were in Italy, you remember in 2014, I think it was. With Jennifer and her husband Ross, I think. And we all also went on a hike in whatever the woods were, there in Southern Italy. I just remember that hike. It was such a beautiful hike. 



 I'm talking about when we had one of the best meals I've ever had. The tomatoes we got from the store in Positano.



Yes. The bread. We had some grapes and olives, and we sat at a picnic table. We went on this hike and that's one of my favorite meals ever. And just to see and experience wildlife that are different than yours, but also just see and appreciate the wildlife that you have right there in in your 



Brighde: backyard. 



Absolutely. I agree. I would love to add to that, in that, you know, you may think you know the Blue Jay, and you can identify the Blue Jay, but there's so much more that you can observe about that animal other than just like knowing that it's a Blue Jay. It's like they're called, it's what a juvenile is. The female looks different to the male, and that the way they fly, and it's not just for birds. It's for all animals, and all trees, and all plants. There's so much richness in it all. And I think, if we could all, and I'm talking to myself here, as well as to other people, we could all do a better job at noticing more deeply what's around us no matter where we are.



I love that.



Colleen: And we've talked about this before. I am upping my birding game, Brighde. You're going to be so impressed. What I'm really interested in, for birding for me right now, right here, is like really knowing the birds right here in our backyard. And I can identify 30 species by sight and by sound. When I travel elsewhere, I still want to know what those birds are. And so using an app like Merlin that I use here at home, but I also use when we travel. You can get the packages that are in the countries that you're going to. So you can learn, to your point, of the birds that are not right in your backyard. Learn some more. And then there's, obviously, all the information about their habitat, and their behavior, and their migration patterns, et cetera. The other app I want to say too, it's also plants, and flowers, and trees that you were mentioning. And I'm using this app all the time right now because of the rewilding project that I'm doing here at home is, there so many different nature identification apps. But the one that I have found to be the best is called, Picture This. It gives you all the information about it, where it's native. And that's what I'm focusing on right now, here. But what's really cool about it is, unless you create collections.



Brighde: Fun.



Colleen: Yeah. So I have like called native species, collections called non-native species, invasive species. Yesterday I went to my neighbor's house, who is an inspiration in the native garden area. And I was taking pictures of all these different plants that I know will work well in our yard as I'm adding more natives because she lives five houses down. And I called it Cliche's Garden. So the point is, that get these apps where you can then keep track and you can remember what you heard, and what you saw, and what animals beyond just the obvious. I'm going to see a rhino in South Africa, or a gorilla in Rwanda, but like the birds, the mammals. They're so different wherever we go. There's so much diversity that we might not be looking for, yeah, how to identify them.



Brighde: Agreed. Agreed.



Colleen: I love that suggestion. Well done, you.



Brighde: So before we finish up our conversation, Colleen, I'd love to ask your perspective on the question about how travelers can advocate for animals and sustainability, even when they're just visiting a place temporarily?



Colleen: That brings up a lot, in terms of even people. They can ask for things that they want, especially when it comes to food. And I think we've covered that. But I think that's the idea, right? Is just recognizing that we are guests, that we are ambassadors of whatever country we are from. Whatever lifestyle we live. And we always want to bring our best selves to these experiences. And by virtue of asking for these things, because everybody's human, and they are seeing themselves in you. So you're giving them an opportunity to learn something new and possibly make some changes, and make sure you have those resources for them, because they will invariably ask questions. Right? I would say, you know, it's really important to maybe send a separate thank you to them. If someone went over and above. Certainly leaving a positive review for people on whatever site would be appropriate. And you know how important reviews are. We know how important reviews are. They're so important.



Brighde: This day and age, reviews are everything. It can make and break a business.



Colleen: Listen to Brighde, listen to her. I think people have been good. So yeah. Leave those positive reviews and just know that you are advocating. I always say, that you don't have to call yourself an advocate to advocate. Advocate just means using your voice. So whatever you're asking for, and how you're asking for that thing,you just don't know what effect you're going to have on the person you're talking to. So just do it kindly. Do it respectfully. Do it compassionately. And follow up, and let them know that you really appreciate what they've done. And then do it publicly as well so other people see. Yeah.



Brighde: I agree. There's so many things that you can do, but there's also so much stuff that you can do when you get home as well. Like, I'm thinking of Sandy. She was one of our travelers in 2019. And long story short, she felt very badly because some dogs that were helping with some anti-poaching efforts, that's a controversial topic. But she really felt that, okay, no matter how she felt about these dogs being used as anti-poaching efforts, they needed to be comfortable. So she undertook this huge project where she raised the money to get dog beds for all of those animals. She fundraised. It was not an easy task from what I can tell, but she did it. And there are a few of our travelers that have done other things. I'm thinking about Pamela as well. She always does a fundraiser every year for Botswana. There's so many things you can do. If you have a podcast like you do, Colleen. You can talk about organizations that you came across that are doing really good work and educating people or fundraising, so many things.



Thank you for saying that.



Colleen: Absolutely. And same thing with what we were talking about. We all have friends. We all have a network. When we hear that someone's going to Thailand and we know that people are probably going to go ride elephants, it's an opportunity to talk to them about it before they go. Or any country people are going to where there might be exploitation. Talk about it before they go. Even if they're not vegetarian or vegan. But hearing from you, you have a favorite restaurant, you have a favorite hotel, oh, you had a waiter, you had a server. You had an owner of a restaurant who is amazing, and you want them to experience that as well. So don't think that you can't give them vegan information, right, or animal sanctuary information if they're not vegan or animal advocates. There's so much opportunity. And I will say too, one thing that people can do from home, is many of the social media channels have things in place. Some of them are AI. And they're getting more sophisticated to be able to detect if there are photos that would indicate any kind of animal exploitation or potentially animal 



Brighde: trafficking.



Oh wow. Cool.



Colleen: So if you see a photo with someone and a wild animal, and you think that doesn't look right. There's different mechanisms. It depends on if you're on Instagram or Facebook. It's growing all the time. I can't tell you what to do for each one, but report inappropriate content, and that's an example. Inappropriate content would certainly be something that would be contributing to wildlife, trafficking or cruelty. So that kind of thing. You're absolutely right. Just orient yourself to all the ways that you can help and that you can foster compassion in this world, and there are no dearth of opportunities.



Brighde: I love it. 



 Your book release that is happening this weekend at the time of recording. This book really is for pretty much everyone that don't need to be vegan, but can you let us know who really is the audience for this book?



Colleen: Oh, my gosh. It's anyone who's ever said they want to do the right thing for anything. And there's just so much in the book. I'm very aware that there's going to be a lot of my audience reading this book, and they're obviously vegan. So they're not going to do the chapter that suggests taking a vegan challenge. They're not going to do the chapter that suggests eating less meat. But there's a lot in there for them. And that's what's been so beautiful as I go on this journey. This zero waste journey. This rewilding journey. Sustainability journey. I'm taking my audience with me and I'm hearing from them and they're so excited by that. And so, there's something for those folks. For someone who's new, obviously, and who's not vegan. Chapter two is, eat less meat. And I know I'm probably going to be boycotted by some vegans because it says, eat less meat, and it doesn't say, go vegan. Read the first sentence of that chapter, and of course, I'm not advocating in any way to commit cruelty against animals. But I'm meeting people where they're at. And so wherever you are in this journey, there is so much. And I will say, I'm going to end with my rant, which I know people are feeling so disempowered and so hopeless. Full of despair, and full of fear, and full of anxiety, and all the things that we hear every day. And I would say to you, where are you putting your attention? And if you're putting your attention to all of the things that make you feel afraid and anxious and filled with despair, then you will feel those things.



Brighde: But if



Colleen: you put your attention on the things that you have agency over, and control over, and power over. That means, what you let into your mind and what you don't let into your mind. You deciding what impact you have in your backyard, in your home, in your kitchen. In your relationships. You will not have any time to feel despair because you will only be focused on what you can do. And there are so many things we can do. I whittle down 52, but even within the 52, there's things within them that we can do. Stop paying attention to anyone who tells you that if you're not angry all the time, you don't care. Just care. Just keep caring and then look to all of the things you can do, and look to the history that tells you all of the ways that's innovative, resourceful, compassionate people have made a difference in the world. So that we could sit here and say, there are the tools in place, they're there. Let's just keep pulling those levers and keep creating the world we want, as opposed to lamenting that it's not the way we want it to be yet. It's up to us to create that world, and that's what this book is for. It's for anybody who wants to create the world we say we want to have, where no one is hurt, where we are living as compassionately as possible. Sustainably as possible, and joyfully as possible because it feels pretty damn good when you're doing the right thing, and that's all you're focused 



Brighde: on.



Colleen: Agreed. It's for sure. So how can people get their mitts on this book, Colleen?



Anywhere you buy books, just go buy books. I would say to them, once anyone has bought the book, please, please, speaking of reviews, go over to, I know, we have opinions about places like Amazon and big retailers. It's where people go look for reviews, even if they are not going to buy the book there. Right? You're not like, saying, go buy the book on Amazon. But if your review is there on Amazon, and by the way, people are going to go over there and buy the book there too, that really has an impact. Good Reads is another. And then anywhere else you want to leave reviews and certainly spread the word to your own audience and friends and family. I do think this is the book that every vegan can give to their non-vegan friends and family members. It's a really disarming title. It's a disarming book and content. And people can pick and choose whatever they want. I think it's going to be the book that everybody can give as a gift. Thank you to everybody who has bought it, who will buy it. And thank you for reviewing it because it really does help.



Brighde: This is my eighth book. 



Colleen: It's part of my work, and it just gets folded into this larger umbrella of work that I've been doing for 30 years to just inspire compassionate living. And so this is just another step in doing so, and I hope it inspires some people.



Brighde: Thank you so much, Colleen, for coming on the podcast. I really appreciate it. I wish you all the best of luck with the launch of the book, and I can't wait to see you in, ooh, like three weeks, something like that. Where we're going to be eating all the ramen.



Colleen: Can't wait. Anyone who wants to know more about ramen, and okonomiyaki. Go listen to my podcast on Food for Thought. It's Vegan in Japan Part Two, and it's all of the food that you will find in 



Brighde: Japan.



Thank you my friend.



Colleen: Thank you so much.



Brighde: Thank you.