The World Vegan Travel Podcast
The World Vegan Travel Podcast
Plant-Based Living in Provence | Margo de Groot
In today’s episode of The World Vegan Travel Podcast, we’ll be talking to Margo de Groot Coenen, a plant-based chef and the founder of Picnic en Provence, a vegan culinary experience based in the heart of southern France. Margo shares her personal journey from a high-powered career in conference management to building a life around food, hospitality, and compassion in the picturesque region of Provence.
We’ll be chatting about what inspired her to make such a big change, how Provence’s traditional cuisine is naturally suited to plant-based cooking, and what it’s like navigating veganism in a country so deeply rooted in animal-based culinary traditions. Margo also gives us a feel for daily life in Provence — from seasonal markets and scenic hilltop villages to the best times of year to visit.
Whether you’re curious about vegan travel in France or simply want a taste of Provençal life, this episode is a must-listen.
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Brighde: Hello Margo and welcome to The World Vegan Travel Podcast.
Thank
Margo: you so much for having me. It's lovely to be here.
Brighde: I'm so thrilled to have you on today to talk about one of my favorite places in the world, a place where I've been lucky enough to spend a decent few weeks in my life, two, three months or so, in total. A place that I absolutely love, which is Provence. And, you have made this your home for several years now. We're going to get into all of that, but before we start getting into all of that, could you please tell me what it is that you do in the vegan space because it is connected to vegan travel as well?
Margo: It is now. Since a few years, I'm a vegan chef. I trained as a vegan chef. I come, we'll get into that, but I come from a very different background. Turned into a vegan chef a few years ago and founded Picnic en Provence. That is my umbrella, so to speak, for, vegan catering services, vegan workshops, thematic vegan workshops. I'm also a private chef and as a sideline I make pickles, which is a big hobby that came out of my husband breaking his knee a number of years ago. And I felt he needed labor therapy. So we started to make piccoli because he could only cut vegetables sitting in a chair. And with the two of us, you only eat so many vegetables. I thought we need to preserve this and that got completely off the rails in all the good ways. So yeah, it's vegan catering, vegan private chefing workshops, and pickles and ferments. That's what I do.
Brighde: So you've only been a chef for a few years in comparison to another career that you had before that, can you talk to your previous career?
Margo: Yeah, I was actually trained. I have a double master, let's put it like that. One in social studies of science and technology, which is easily set philosophy of science and technology. And another one in applied ethics. And I worked for nearly, well, for a bit over 20 years. Actually self-employed as a conference manager for high-level, high profile conferences. So ministers, heads of state, VIPs, VVIP's. Mainly advocating access to information, access to education, very much in a digital strategy for research, libraries, archives, public libraries, museums. It's, yeah, it's something that's always had my passion working with people and the adrenaline of conferencing, educating teams, doing the protocol. Just everything about it. I just really love people. But after 20 years, I'd been around the block a few times and I still had the passion, but it was just time for something else. It really was time for something else. And, yeah, the pivotal moment came, I actually think with three big things. One was when we adopted our, now late Golden Retriever, Boris, who we lost last year. Yeah, he was over 14. It's a massive loss, but yeah. But when we adopted him, living with a sentient being like that, I went vegetarian overnight. I just couldn't believe. That story I'd been telling myself all along anymore that there were animals to eat and animals to love. I just, I'd been struggling for quite a while to believe that. Like I just didn't buy my own story anymore. Then the real journey into becoming a vegan cook or chef came with two subsequent losses. One of my mother, who passed in six weeks time between diagnosis and death. And even though we had a fairly complicated relationship, it's big loss. And four weeks later, a very dear friend passed where we already lived in Provence. And that made me really take stock of my life. That's when I said to my husband, darling, I think I need to change lanes. And yeah, that's when it all started happening, because up until that point in time, I'd been really interested in cooking and looking at cook's training, chef's training for years actually, to be honest. But I was very put off, and I'm probably not going to make any friends with this, but I was very put off by the machismo in shows like Hell's Kitchen, Master Chef, the throwing away food, and binge. It may not taste right for you, and it may not be up your standard, but let's also appreciate the effort that went in. And not every one of my meals is equally good. I still miss at times, and thankfully you learn from your failures. I thought, yeah, I spent over 20 years training teams hopefully with compassion, with love, with understanding, and trying to do the same for me. And to then see that sort of fireworks in the kitchen, that obviously is good for tv, that just put me off. But then I still wanted to pursue it. And long story short, I found Rouxbe because I couldn't possibly leave my career and train full-time somewhere. So I found Rouxbe Online Cooking school, and yeah, I just fell in love with the community, the food. Yeah, just, it's been a good journey so far.
Brighde: I love it. And I think I know a little bit about Rouxbe. I've seen it online, not recently, but I in the past, so I don't remember so much about it. Can you talk a little bit about this qualification and course that you went through? Is it french based? No.
Margo: It's USA based, actually. As I mentioned, I've got two academic degrees. But I don't remember working as hard for them as I worked for my cook's degree, so I registered for Plant-based Pro. I thought when I'm going to do this, I, whatever you choose to do in life, I think you have to aspire to be really good at it. It doesn't mean putting other people down, but getting the best out of yourself. So I registered for Plant-Based Pro and they've got this whole buildup, which involves reorganizing your kitchen, the ethics of chefing, and then you get into the actual techniques and you have to report with pictures, with your learnings. There's this whole template. There's a lot of theory, which of course I love. There's a lot of practice, which for me, coming from a philosophy background was new. These hands were mainly made for turning pages. So yeah, I found it very intense. And what I absolutely loved and still love about it, is the support. It's a very warm way of educating. They're strict, don't get me wrong. It's all in very good spirits. They're very supportive and very educational. So if you don't understand something, you can ask the feedback on your assignments. On my assignments, I found always very informative and I felt myself growing. And really supported in the growth. And that to me was wonderful. It was such a proud day when I served my final canapé meal which is your graduation in addition to an absolutely terrifying theoretical exam. I got the final marks and then I embarked on essential vegan desserts with Fran Costigan and I did a Blue Zones cooking course. I'll probably, somewhere in October, because we're stumbling into the season here. I'll start a food academy. And it's been a magnificent journey. And I'm also taking chocolate classes with Amy Levin now, raw chocolate queen in my opinion. Crystal Dawn Culinary, learning how to make raw cakes. So this whole world has opened up for me that I, unfortunately, cannot eat enough in the life that's left in me to get through all of it. But it's just such an exciting, innovative, and compassionate way of cooking.
Brighde: I remember when I first went vegan, I didn't really have any intention of cooking professionally, but I just took to cooking with gusto in a way that I never had before. I would come back from a full day at work, five days a week, and make a three-course meal because I was just so excited about how delicious this food was, and all of these new ingredients and techniques that I had. I had known how to cook before that. It was vegetarian cooking. But until I went vegan, it was very understated. These days I'm much more, 'Eat to live', rather than, 'Live to eat.' Unless I'm going out to dinner, I should say. That's just in my house. But, yeah, I can totally appreciate this whole excitement of discovering this whole new world and just wanting to just go for it. I love it. And now your whole business is out of it. This Is so great.
Margo: It's again, the whole conferencing part of my life and project management part of my life, I cherish it. I look back on it with a lot of love. There are many lessons that I can take forward. Of course, when I cater for smaller groups, I no longer do the five, 700 conference, 700 people conferencing, thing. I love the small groups. I love the personal relations. I love the contact with people. But just to organize a nice little picnic and to get the finishing touches just right, that is the food is of course, essential to that. But it's also how you set up a little picnic that makes it all work. That makes the magic. And that is, yeah, that's something that I think I also build on those years of conferencing. And just the people you get to meet that's been amazing over the past 20 plus years, and it's amazing now.
Margo: I Brilliant. All right, let's talk about Provence.
Brighde: A beautiful part of France. First of all, let's start like super basic. For those people that might not know the geography of France very well, can you talk about where it is, like the climate, like the landscapes, and could you tell us an overview.
Margo: Most people will probably have heard about Paris. So we're two and a half hours southeast of Paris by TGV, which is deceptive because it's actually a 700 kilometer ride. But the TGV just goes very fast. Apt is the nearest by big-ish city for us. The region where we live is called Luberon, which is a part of Provence, and Luberon was made famous, and hopefully people will have seen the movie, A Good Year with Russell Crowe. That wine château is in this region and it's actually about 30 kilometers as the crow flies from here. It's also where Monet used to paint in Fanjeaux. So that's the part where we are. Avignon is about an hour by car from us, which is now with the passing of the Pope, become relevant again. Because it of course was a Papal city at the time in 14 hundreds, 13 hundreds, 14th century. We are about 16 kilometers northeast of Apt and it's a really tiny village where I live. It's a medieval hilltop village. Viens, it's
Brighde: called, isn't it?
Margo: Yeah, Viens, which in French means 'come.'
But because it's a little bit of a trot from Apt, and it's an enclave. So you come to visit Viens and then there's the hills and the mountains around. So for us, what they call a hill here for us is a still a massive mountain. What makes this part attractive, is that hilly landscape. The hilly mountain is landscape. The Greenland, the lavender fields, we're an olive oil country. It's the valleys that actually are home to a lot of fossils, about an hour's walk from where I live. You still have prehistoric animal footsteps that you can see. We find sea shells. There are lots of different birds. There is lots of different plants around. So it's a geographic diversity that makes this area really appealing.
Brighde: And the climate is just, in the summer, it's very hot, very sunny, most of the year, I think. And cloudy in winter, maybe, but not like the Pacific Northwest.
I
would say.
Margo: What we've always loved about Luberon is that we still have the seasons here. When you go to Nice, which is about a two and a half hour drive from here, you're on the coast and it's pretty much mild all year round here. We're 650 meters up high. We get winter, we still get the occasional bit of snow. It's, of course, climate change everywhere. We still get snow, we get a Mistral. So the hurling wind.
Brighde: You've gotta describe the Mistral to
Margo: Yeah,
Brighde: our listeners.
Margo: It's a very cold, hard wind that blows you off your feet, and it usually blows for about a week. It really feels as if you're, the rooftop is pulled from your house. It always makes me feel as if I'm back in the Netherlands where we also have the cycling against the wind competition. We haven't quite gotten around to introducing that here, but it's a really strong wind that has made quite a few people mad. I tend to love it.
Brighde: That's right. Yes. I have one rather amusing anecdote about the Mistral that I would love to share. 20 years ago when I was a tour leader for a company. The company started running tours in France and I was one of the people that ran those tours. We were based in Avignon, which is the one of the big cities, for this one week trip. And we would go out, and we would do like daily activities, using Avignon as a base. One of the activities was a day of cycling. Now, because of the company that I was working for, and at that time they didn't have a full support vehicle, and the person leading the cycling was me, who at the start of the season could not even fix a puncture.
Margo: So you
Brighde: kind of see how that would be. Anyway, the season started in April. So the Mistral, basically it flows, I think, South, along the Rhône River Valley. Am I saying that correctly? So the bike ride, we started, we went and picked up the bikes and it was pretty windy, but I didn't really know what I was getting into. When I picked up the hire bikes, and then we started cycling North to Châteauneuf-du-Pape and then to Orange. And the Mistral was brutal. Trying to cycle against the wind. Me leading it, 12 people who weren't necessarily cyclists or even had much experience on bikes, trying to deal with it and not having any recourse to opt out. I think we got back home at eight o'clock that night. It was terrible. It sent me mad. It drove me mad.
Margo: That's brutal biking that, yeah. That is some brutal biking, but well done for making it.
Brighde: Thank you. Yes. I'm here to tell the tale. But yeah, it's, the weather is interesting in Provence, I would say. And it's beautiful. It's beautiful. If you want sunshine, it's a great place to be.
Margo: And it's the colors. That's the other thing. The intense colors. Everything that Jacques Brel who was from Flanders sings about. The gray, low sky, the gray waves. That's my country, that's my original country. Here, even when it rains, the sky is high. You never have that sense of a wet newspaper on your head, which I love. The colors are very intense. You've got 30, 40 shades of green. It's just, it's that sense of color. I love the cold wind. I love the winter. I love every season here. Yeah.
Brighde: Beautiful. Beautiful. Alright, so you've already alluded to this,a few times already, but, what is it that draws people to Provence? Like why is it such a popular destination? I think it would probably be the most popular destination for international visitors after Paris. Maybe alongside the Loire Valley. And Loire Valley is so famous, of course, because it's close to Paris. Easy to access, and it's got all of those beautiful castles. What is the real draw of Provence?
Margo: I think it has a few draws that are equally strong. When you look at the coast. So that's Nice. That's Marseille. That is the beach tourism. There's a lot of that. And it is beautiful beaches. Very crowded in some parts. Beautiful beaches. It's great beach life. We're in la campagne, so we're about two and a half hour drive from there. Where I live, it's mountainous. And what draws people to, what I now call home, is the lavender fields. It's the fantastic hikes. It's the fantastic bike rides. I am a cyclist. It's a fantastic bike rides. And it's the gourmet life. It's just so nice to be in one of these, they call them villages perchés here. So the hilltop villages. I live in one of those where you can grab a glass of wine on a terrace, look out over the hills, look out over the lavender fields. Have the sun on your face, put your hat on. Yeah. Slap something on your face, in terms of sunscreen and just enjoy that slow-paced life with good food after you've gone for a great hike. I think that draws in people. There's a lot of history here as well. There's a lot of, it's the stuff of legends, but there's a lot of history around, I live in a 14th century house that comes with its perks and challenges when you're a six foot Dutch woman because some of the doors are reasonably low, and I have to experience that once a week, I'd say. But the history here. I really feel rooted. Rooted in the history. So I think that those are things that draw people in.
Brighde: And the history, it goes right back. There's a lot of pre-history. The Roman history is hugely significant. There is so much incredible Roman history.
Margo: When I zoom down the hill to Apt, there are houses that have Roman mosaics on their floor or in their basement that are not even protected anymore because there are so many. There are still wine castles around. And a friend of mine, she organized historic food journeys in this region. She goes to wineries that actually still make Roman wines. When you go to Arles they're still part of a small coliseum. There is still parts of the pest wall that was erected in 1720.
Brighde: Incredible. And of course, another couple of the big things are the Roman arenas. There’s the one in Arles, and another one in Nîmes. I don't think Nîmes is officially in Provence, but it's not that far away. And of course, the Pont du Gard, which is magnificent. It's this incredible Roman aqueduct that crosses the Gardon River. And, it is just a sight to behold and it's a lovely place to spend a day or so canoeing down there learning about the history, having picnics, just swimming in the clear waters. That's different to the actual history, but there's just a lot to see. What can I say?
Margo: And also to experience, because that is one thing that we've noticed. We used to be tourist here and then at some point we, yeah, with Covid, we arrived here and basically forgot to go back. But once you take the time to enjoy and get a bit in a pace of life, so don't fill your to-do list, but just roll with it for a while. It's really nice. And that's when I find you come below the surface. That's where you really start breathing it a bit more.
Brighde: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Love it. I love it. Alright, so let's talk about the the food of Provence because it is quite different to the food in the rest of France. I'm sure many people will know that traditional French food is not particularly vegan-friendly, but it's a little bit different in Provence. Would you like to talk to that?
Margo: Yeah. Yeah. I think as a basic framework, France by and large has three regions when it comes to, for example, grease. So there are in the Southwest traditionalists who swear by duck fat. Anything needs to be cooked in duck fat. Then there's the north of France, and I'm going way too general here, so please, I apologize. That's butter country. Where I am is olive oil country. So that is a traditional product that's very vegan that comes in a lot of different tastes. And our house actually also came with three olive trees. We harvested 17 kilos of olives. Nobody was proud of that, apart from us. We have three liters of our own olive oil. So traditionally speaking, Provençal dishes are actually olive oil based. There's actually quite a few plant-based dishes that by now, have become enriched between brackets with meat or with other animal-based products. But they're, traditionally speaking, are just vegan. Think for example, socca, which is a chickpea bread made in Nice and surroundings. It's very traditional Niçoisbread, and it's just chickpea flour, olive oil, salt, pepper. And it's baked in a cast iron steel pan in an oven.
In Genoa, goes by another name as well. But it has a slightly different texture. The socca bread is a bit crispier, I'd say. The ones that I had in Genoa are more soft. They're almost more pancake like. It's a very vegan dish. Many households here have their own version of the recipe. Arguments can actually get quite heated over it. I have my own version as well and I make a ratatouille bread as well. There's also the piperade, which is a stew from tomatoes and bell peppers. That's absolutely lovely. That's completely vegan as well. The original aïoli that now everybody thinks is mayonnaise with garlic in it, actually traditionally here is made with garlic salt and olive oil. And you pound it, you pound it, you pound it. It's very labor intensive. There's a lot of tomato-based dishes. So it's traditionally speaking, it's a reasonably peasant cuisine here that is by and large plant-based. Over winter, people would eat a lot of beans, a lot of stews because it does get cold and they would work out in the fields. Over summer, it's a lot of, traditionally a lot of foraging was going on. So a lot of wild herb salads to also aid digestion. I would say that the food, the traditional food here is, yeah, is peasants food and it's what I absolutely like. And one of my all time favorites is a Soupe au Pistou stew, which is made with different beans. Traditionally it was made to empty the cellars of the last bean harvest before the new bean harvest would come in. But you make all these different beans into a soup.
And so you put the beans in a nice stock. You cook it, and then you put the pieces of the pesto in which you can obviously, and traditionally was made without cheese, and that is just a lovely filling soup that warms you from the inside out. So the Provençal traditional cuisine, as I've now come to understand it, it's peasants food and it's really nourishing. It gets you going for the day.
Brighde: Love it.
Margo: Yeah.
Brighde: Yeah. And what I think, what I've noticed is, ordering off the menu as a vegan in France is not like it is in Southeast Asia, where it's very easy to order off the menu, but ordering off the menu in Provence, is a little bit easier than it is in other areas of France because there's a few dishes that everybody knows how to make that are vegan. You can ask for things without the lardons, for example, so it's a little bit easier. Whereas in the Dordogne, the potatoes are cooked in duck fat, so just forget about it.
Margo: Yeah, be a bit careful here as well though. You can order off the menu out in the Campagne, where I live, it's more difficult. There are quite a few restaurants that are just very unsure whether their food is actually vegan. Sometimes they sneak, yeah, sneak it in. That sounds really mean, which I don't mean it to say that way, but they forget that they cook something in veal stock, for example.
Brighde: Right. Yeah.
Margo: And the other thing that I've really come to appreciate here, is when you say, listen, I have a vegan lifestyle. They're very open, that they're unsure whether they actually offer vegan food, which to me is very helpful because sometimes it is a negotiation. We have in the village where we used to live, lovely friends that are 80, 85. All they know what to make for me, is an omelet in olive oil with mushrooms. When I'm going to say I don't eat an egg, which I don't eat in my house, they just feel really offended and I would never do that to them. So I'm, sometimes you have to negotiate a bit. Having said that, I never eat that animals, no animal products, no cheese. I'm highly lactose intolerant. But back to your question, yes, you can order off the menu. My impression is that there are more vegan dishes than they are actually aware of.
Brighde: Yes. Yes. So it, it requires having a conversation, which is hard if you don't speak french, of course.
Margo: But the English is up and coming. I'm 51 now. When I went on holidays as a kid here few moons ago, the French were famous for not speaking English. And even though people say, oh, your French is much better than my English, and I do stumble forward still, their English is actually really good and they're very happy to accommodate you. They're very happy. Most chefs are actually very happy to try and make something for you. Sometimes you don't get past salad. At other times in Avignon, in the commercial zone there. The other day we had a fantastic meal that was just whacked up by a chef and we came around closing time, and it was just a superb vegan option. So yeah, just negotiate, chat.
Brighde: Yeah. Yeah.
Margo: And be aware that it's quite unclear for many people here what vegan is. Does that mean that you're gluten-free? Does that mean that you eat cheese? Vegetarian at times is unclear.
Brighde: Excellent. So of course, going out to restaurants is a little bit more challenging in France than in some other places. But I do think self-catering, you can have an absolutely fabulous time in Provence because they have all of these amazing markets which you have to go to. Maybe you can share some of your favorites. And nearly all supermarkets in France have a ton of great vegan options. So why don't you talk about those options because you can have a wonderful French experience if you self-cater.
Margo: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, the markets here are an absolute dream. There's lots of great produce. The Wednesday market here in Viens in summer is small but very high quality. The mayor of this village that I call home with, which is home to about four or 500 people year-round, he is a biological tomato grower. His tomatoes are absolutely excellent. Just down the hill in Céreste, there is a beautiful fruit stall and vegetable stall that has fantastic produce in season. When you zoom down the other hill, you go into Apt. An absolutely fantastic Saturday market. I'm lucky enough to go there tomorrow again. There's lots of biological produce, lots of small producers. You have to, this is an insider tip. Don't go in on the tourist part. Go in at the other gate, which is where the parking lot normally is. This will all make sense when you get there. That's where you come into all the good stuff where hardly any tourists ever go, and it's just perfect produce. And the colors are fantastic. The taste is really good. Of course, you have to be discerning and that's also why in one of my workshops I take people to the market to teach people how you discern the good produce from the less good produce. On Sunday there's a good market with lots of small little producers. Tuesday morning in Apt, there's a small producer markets that is absolutely worth your while. When you go a bit further in the South Luberon, now that one on a Sunday, it's a dream. It's a small scale market. Local producers, people who offer their forest products, who are very happy to give you tips. There's always some tourists walking around or people like me who are happy to translate, have a glass of wine, sit down, look at the people, taste the produce. That is one of my favorite markets, and I still go over every now and then. That's about a 50 kilometer ride from me. It's just so good. Yeah. No, that's definitely worth your while. In terms of the supermarkets, I think it's worth noting, and this is coming from the inside, that in the Campagne here in the North Luberon, in Apt. Yes. the Leclerc has a very good vegan selection of vegan cheeses. They even have Vuna. They've got some of the RAH produce. The vegetables, the fruits, that goes without saying. But when it comes to processed vegan, that's a good stop over. The Lidl and the Aldi quite often have vegan options.
It was a bit of a hit and miss with finding vegan cheeses and yeah, I make them myself, but every now and then, especially when you're building your kitchen, it's handy to have something ready. So I find it much more available on this side of the valley than on the other side. Having said that, there's always options.
Brighde: Am I right in thinking that the Luberon is, I believe, the designation is a natural park, is that right?
Margo: It's a national park.
Brighde: It's a little bit different to what we might think as of a national park. InNorth America, which usually includes like wilderness and untouched ecosystems and things like that. But that's not how it necessarily is in France. Basically, it's like the preservation of the traditional landscape and farming methods, et cetera. A little bit like how it's the same in Tuscany as well. I believe that one of the things with that, is that you don't have a lot of major towns within the Luberon . And also it would mean that you wouldn't have these kind of like big gargantuan supermarkets in the Luberon as well. So if I'm right about that, maybe it's a case of stock up before you enter.
Margo: Yes and no. When we traveled in Canada, we were gobsmacked by the size of the supermarkets. I needed a GPS in there. In here, I've come to redefine what I find big. I, the Leclerc for me here in Apt is massive.
Brighde: It is very small. You don't necessarily need to stock up, but I think your safest bet is to go to the bigger villages. There's lots of little stalls on the roadside that have fruits and vegetables.
Margo: A chickpeas is a local product here. So you'll find that in the wild, so to speak. When it comes to tofu, soy milk, actually quite a few of the small stores have it as well. There is, I noticed that there's a definite, it's been what, five, six years that I lived here. I see a definite change in the landscape. There's more options coming available slowly, but there are, and I find that people are very curious. I'm not the only vegan in this village. I've got a colleague. There's a few vegetarians. But I see the landscape definitely changing and it's not so much an adversity, but it's more of an unknown. And one of the things that speaks to that, when we were preparing to buy our house here, I thought, oh, I better go talk to the mayor to see if he's open to have my professional kitchen in his village. Because if he and the city council against it, then we may have to go look for another house. So I made an appointment, very nervously went because I thought, oh God, we really love this house. If he doesn't like it, we're part of my French, were up shit creek without pedals. And I came in, we had a little chat as you do in France, which is something I really appreciate. So a warming up chat. And he said, so you have a business that you're going to bring here? So people hunt here. And then coming in as a vegan is not necessarily the best proposition because people may feel challenged in their lifestyle. I will always be a foreigner here. And, he literally said, we are so lucky to have you. And I just needed to do everything not to keep my chin from smacking on the table. I thought. Excuse me. And he said, oh yeah, no, my wife and I actually, he said, I wouldn't say we're vegans, but we've stopped eating red meat many years ago. Hardly eat fish because it's not a local product. We eat some eggs because we have chicken, but no, we mainly eat vegetables, fruits, and actually we really like it. So that to me was a wow. And he said, we should be so lucky with two people coming in here with this business, which to me very much is a way to the future. And that, for mayor of a small village, I found that, I found it so generous and I found many people in the village to be very supportive. When we had a street party here, I could, some of my food, including carrot locks and people who said, listen, I'm not vegetarian by any stretch of the imagination, let alone vegan. This is really good food. This actually top some of the food I had in restaurants. So yeah, I'll buy it. That is an openness mind that I really love. So yeah.
Brighde: If it tastes good, they'll eat it.
And I said, do you want me to cook a meal? He said, no, but what do you do, because you're a cook. What do you cook? And I said, I'm a vegan cook. And he said, I don't care. As long as the food's good, I'll happily eat it. And that's it. As long as the food's good. It's one meal at the time.
Brighde: One seasonal food that I think is amazing in Provence that we have not talked about, is the melon.
Margo: Oh, yes, it's coming. It's coming.
It's coming, isn't it? For June, May, June. There's watermelon as well, but there's alsothe Cavaillon. That's town that has them all. Cavaillon is a town.
It's about an hour from here. It's how I like my melons to be. It has the strong perfume flavor, which I happen to love. I know not everybody likes it for that reason, but I absolutely love it. It is the one that is green on the outside and orangey on the inside.
Brighde: Yes, I know. It is Rockmelon.
Rockmelon. It's common in Australia. That's what we call it in Australia, and I can't remember off the top of my head what you call it in other English speaking countries. But yeah, it's delicious and in Provence, in season. It is amazing.
Yeah. No, I make little soups out of that. It's fantastic. And then just that little bit, that little crisp white wine with it. Oh yes, in the hot summer sun. Oh my goodness.
Margo: Okay.
Brighde: So Provence is known not only for its amazing cuisine and its incredible vegetables, those beautiful hilltop villages, stunning landscapes, but also wine is a big deal. It may not be, Bordeaux area, level of fame, to international listeners, but it's up there. It's definitely very highly prized. So why don't you talk a little bit about wine and maybe some of the other beverages that people can enjoy?
Margo: Yeah, let me start with the wine because for me that's been, and it still is a journey. I'm not one of those chefs that is great at wine pairing with dishes. I definitely love a good glass of wine. This region is very known for its roses and whites. And when we lived here during Covid to 'support your local', with our little terrace in front of the house and our neighbors had a terrace in front of their house, and their neighbors had a terrace in front of their house, and we all got along great. So 'support your local' took on pretty epic forms because we all felt that we had to support a wine house, which we generously did.
Margo: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. But once I got further into the journey of vegan cooking and started my Picnic en Provence business. Because you think it's made out of grapes, so it's not vegan. It turns out that the glue that's used often has eggshell in it. But more importantly, fish products are also used to clarify wine, and that's something that's not widely known, not even within the wine houses. So when we move to Viens, I went on an expedition to the wine houses. So I went to the wine domains around and quite by accident also to themselves, I found two domains, and the search is still going that are, that produce vegan wines. One is Les Infirmières, which may ring a bell with people as Ridley Scott’s estate. They produce lovely roses and white wines and reds. They’re in Oppède. It's a beautiful domain, very well kept, very lovingly restored. And the other one was a fairly hilarious story in Gargas, which has become my house wine. And I gave them a call. Got this lovely lady on the phone. And I'm, Is your wine vegan because I'm a vegan chef based in Provence, and I'd love to guarantee that my wines are vegan.' And she said, 'Oh, that's actually a really good question. I don't, no, we don't carry a label.' And I said, no, but most of the vegan French products don't. She got back to me within an hour saying, 'Oh yes, our wine is vegan because my son's been a vegan for many years and we love to enjoy a glass of wine together.' And she said, I'm so happy. I never knew that we, that our wine was vegan. So now we're promoting that. And it's a beautiful wine. The other domain that makes beautiful wines, and which for me, my jury is still out whether I should use it or not. Which is a family owned vineyard. That's the vineyard that featured in A Good Year. They would like to be famous for their wines and their merit, because their wines are biodynamic, have been biodynamic since the seventies. Fantastic people, beautiful wines. Like the crisp, crunchy white that's dry. It's gorgeous, and the people are just, they couldn't be more lovely. And they said there's no animal products in our wine, nor in our labels. However, and everything's biodynamic. So not even organic, but biodynamic. But so we do use fertilizer with cow horns in it.
Brighde: At the same time, they're so compassionate for their product. They're so compassionate for the earth, that I think, to me, that is the discerning factor. Are we on the same agenda when it comes to caring for each other, for the planet, for the earth, for everything that lives here? So that's, yeah, I'd be inclined to include that wine.
It would definitely pass my requirements. I am a 100% committed vegan, but I tend to not get too concerned about these in the filtration agents used and this kind of thing. I know for some people it's very important and I respect that, but for me personally, I don't worry too much about those things. I'm not a big wine drinker for a start, but, I feel like very few people, this is Colleen's line, she would use this, very few people are going to wanna join, join the vegan club if it's so restrictive in this sense. Even like the water that comes out of our taps can be filtered through bone char. And it's a thing that we need to survive. While I wish it was a little bit different, for me, I personally, I'm perfectly happy to drink wine that is not certified vegan and stuff, like that's my opinion.
Margo: It's about being transparent. That has driven me where we started this podcast. Compassion to me is such a driving force.
Brighde: Yeah. I
Margo: see that.
I make many mistakes in that as well, but I still strive to live a compassionate life. It's a practice. It's an every day, every moment practice. And I am surely not the one to measure somebody else. Having said that, there is another beverage that you can get here that's vegan, and that's absolutely delicious. To be consumed in moderation in the sun. And that's the pastis, which is an aniseed drink. It's an aniseed taste drink.
Brighde: I love it so much. I love it so much. Okay, keep going.
Margo: Yeah. There is a local one there. There's Baron, which is very spicy. There is of course Ricard. So you have this bit of yellowish drink that tastes like aniseed, I would say, with alcohol. And then you pour some water on top. I pour a bit more than my husband. And you put ice cubes in there. And you just kick back and relax. I have a little olive with it.
Brighde: Perfect afternoon apéritif drink. I love it. It's perfect for summer. Pastis with ice and Aperol Spritz are my go-to, go-to apéritif drinks, and I only have it in the summertime, but I have to keep it special, but I absolutely love it.
Margo: Yeah. We found when we started living here that we had to test various brands, so we did that. I think anything we embark on, we do with vigor and enthusiasm, so yeah.
Brighde:
Margo: Oh dear.
Brighde: Do you have any specific, like a vegan restaurant recommendations to make? I know that in the cities like Nice and Marseille, there's many more choices. Happy Cow is a great friend, and I was talking to you just before we pressed record. And Land & Monkeys, which is that famous, vegan patisserie place that's opening a branch in Provence.
Margo: Yay.
According
Brighde: to their website. So exciting.
That is very cool. I think that's, that will be, they'll have 11 branches in France now after they open all of the coming soon ones. So that is super fun. For someone that loves French Patisserie like I do, it's great. But are there any other incredible vegan experiences? Of course, organizing a vegan picnic through you, but I'm wondering whether there are any other sort of notable vegan restaurants in the Provence region.
Margo: Let me go outside Provence for a second here to highlight two female vegan chefs that I greatly admire and that I think everybody should know about. One is Claire Vallée she was the first Michelin-starred vegan chef who got no support from a bank when she opened her restaurant ONA, which is near Bordeaux. She has since closed and does this amazing pop-up experience in beautiful homes all throughout France. We're hoping that she'll come to Provence at some point.   Claire Vallée, we had the honor of eating there for our wedding anniversary last year. Fantastic chef. Look her up. Look at her dishes. And the other one is Linda Vongdara, who is a French vegan pastry chef. There's of course, also the lady who founded VG Pâtisserie.
All women. All women. I love it.
Women. And those are, yeah. They're trailblazers. They're absolute trailblazers. So although they're not in Provence, I would say definitely. Yeah, definitely go there. And Claire Vallée’s popup tables. You can find her online. So have a go there. She speaks English. There is in Marseille, which is a firm favorite Mariosa that is a French cuisine inspired restaurant.
Brighde: So cool because you very rarely get French inspired vegan food in restaurants.
Yes.
Margo: Yeah. No, that's also why I started Picnic en Provence inspired by the Provençal cuisine because there is, it's just a beautiful cuisine and with a little bit of a trick, you make it into scrumptious vegan. Another personal favorite is Paper Plane in Nice, again, run by lovely women. Me and my young dog are always welcome there and it's not evident because a shepherd is fairly jumpy. But Paper Plane has a menu that changes every week, every month. It goes with the seasons. Fantastic welcoming. There's also Saj by Milla that's really in the old town of Nice. So you're in the narrow alley there. She serves vegetarian and vegan, and has lovely vegan desserts. Great vegan cheesecake. The other one in Nice is a completely vegan pizzeria called Utopia that is very much worth a visit. And what I love about all of these restaurants is that they're so passionately run. They're, they were founded with a vision and run with so much passion and you meet lovely other people there. And quite a few people who eat there are not even vegan. There's a new Vegan restaurant that's about to open or has opened already, so I need to keep an eye on that. Le Flambé, you can get the pizza without cheese. That's vegan. You have to ask for options, but the ones that I just mentioned are absolutely vegan restaurants in the region. And that is, yeah. I find that a luxury to sit in Nice in the hustle and bustle of the city and just, yeah, sit in the old town and have a good buy to eat. And, yeah, just enjoy it and not worry about what you eat, but just enjoy the whole experience.
Brighde: Yeah.
Margo: So it's up and coming. It's definitely up and coming.
Brighde: Yeah, I love it.
Alright, so Margot, before we say goodbye, I'd love it if you wouldn't mind sharing. When are some really great times to go to Provence? And maybe some really great times to not go to Provence, that maybe coincide with like extreme weather or festivals that are going on. Some of them could be really interesting to go to and some might be ones to avoid. So go ahead. Why don't you share some of
Margo: those.
My favorite seasons would definitely be spring and autumn. Spring because everything comes into bloom. You don't yet have the very high temperatures. The light is much softer and much more varied. There aren't as many people around, quite frankly, although my business thrives on having people around, but I, it is just a bit more calm and the temperatures are just doable. You've got the cold nights and the warmer days. It's also a beautiful time to potter around in a 2CV, which you can rent. You can have your rooftop open. I have a 2CV myself as well. So the weather allows you to have your hood open.
And you see the lavender fields just coming into bloom a bit late in spring. Summer is of course the time that many people are here, want to be here. I honestly cannot say I find it the best time. It's very hot.
Brighde: I agree.
Margo: It's, the light's quite harsh. And everywhere she's very busy.
You have these beautiful autumn flowers and everything's just a bit calmer. I also love winter when they have these Christmasstalls. The crèches as they call them here. The whole village is basically a crèches. There's hardly anybody around. Many things are close, but you really feel the vibe here.
Brighde: Yeah.
Margo: Then, and I'm sure I'm not going to make any friends in the tourist business with this, but whether you want to be here for festivals or not, is very much a personal preference. In July, there's the Festival d'Avignon
Brighde: which for many of our friends is a highlight because there's many plays, many street artists. But it's just a performing arts mecca. It's one of the biggest in the world.
Margo: Absolutely. It's incredible. It's incredible. And you see a lot of up and coming artists. It's, it is something, and, a bit over 30 years ago, it was the first holiday my husband and I ever took together to the Festival d'Avignon. It was vastly different and it's much more organized now. Whether you like the crowds or not will very much determine whether you want to go there, be, if you want to go there in July, be very aware that accommodation is booked out months, if not a year ahead.
Brighde: Yeah, it's almost impossible. You can't stay in Avignon. You've gotta be way far out. And if you do find something, it's not going to be very good, and it's going to be very expensive.
Margo: Yeah. The same goes for the Lemon Festival. Have a look at when it is, rather than me throwing all the dates. At the same time, lots of people, there is the truffle markets in winter. Ménerbes has a great truffle market. I love truffles simultaneously. Although I'm a chef, I don't know enough about the specifics of truffles, which takes years to select the right ones on the markets and be very aware, it's not always honest business. Let's put it like that.
Brighde: Yeah.
Margo: So as, as nice as it is to wander around there, it all depends on whether you like the crowds or not. The Cannes Film Festival you can of course, it's, there's lots of things going on throughout the year, but the Festival d’Avignon is definitely a big one. The Lemon Festival in Menton is a big one. And here throughout the region or the carnival in Nice, here throughout the region. Summer is just a very big thing, but it's one that I would avoid.
Your 2CV in Spring, potter around. Rent it in Autum, potter around. Get your e-bike go out. Summer's just hot. It's lovely, but it's hot.
Brighde: Yes. And we all wanna see the lavender in bloom. It's absolutely beautiful. But it's blooms, I wanna say July, is that correct?
Margo: The seasons are changing here. It's
Brighde: hot. Oh,
extremely hot. Yeah, it is. It is. I have seen the lavender fields and they are beautiful, and maybe I'm saying that because I've ticked that off my bucket list. But, I would say it's not worth it. It's not worth it.
Margo: Now I love living here in every season. Of course you can drive around, you can see them in the direction of sold, but if you want to slow down experience and are in it for the hikes and puttering around, definitely spring and autumn, and also winter, when it's just all, yeah.
Brighde: Yeah.
Margo: Just all nice and normal.
Brighde: I love it. All right, Margot, thank you so much for this lovely chat. It's been a pleasure to get to know you a little bit more and all about your love for this incredible region of France. I literally am getting off this phone call, this call recording and I'm sending a message to Seb and I'm telling him we've gotta bump Provence up. We absolutely have to on our list. It
Margo: would be our honor to welcome you and to, yeah, no, it's, we wake up every morning saying, gosh, we're so lucky that we've been able to adopt this as our home. And yeah, it's.
Brighde: Amazing.
Margo: Been lucky.
Brighde: Alright. Thank you Margo. Thank you so much.
Thank
Margo: you so much and have a great evening or morning.