Vegan Mexico City | Tacos, Pyramids & Activism | Mena Espejel

Link for the show notes

In today’s episode, I’m chatting with Mena Espejel — CEO, founder, and tour leader at Travelling Herbivore, Mexico City’s first 100% vegan and vegetarian tour company.
If you’ve ever wondered what ethical, grassroots, truly local vegan travel looks like — this episode is going to inspire you.
I recently celebrated my 50th birthday in Mexico City and had the absolute joy of joining one of Mena’s street food tours. It completely changed the way I see the city — from hyper-local vegan taco stalls and activist-led restaurants, to family-run obsidian workshops near Teotihuacan, to thoughtful wildlife experiences in Baja California.
In this conversation, we talk about:
The growth of the vegan scene in Mexico City
How veganism intersects with activism, feminism, and anti-speciesism
Responsible whale watching and wildlife tourism
Off-the-beaten-path neighborhoods you should absolutely visit

And of course… where to eat the best vegan tacos, pozole, tortas, and tiramisu in the city.

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Transcript

[00:00:00]  

Welcome, Mena Espejel to The World Vegan Travel Podcast. I'm so thrilled to have you here. 

Thank you so much for inviting me. I'm very, very thrilled to be here. 

I really am so excited to have you on because we are talking together today. But actually, I met you for the first time, I want to say, about three weeks ago. 

Possibly, yeah, it hasn't been long. 

Because listeners, if you don't know, I took a wonderful trip to Mexico City for my 50th birthday celebration with my dear friend Heather. I'm going to be talking more about that on other episodes of the podcast. But I was so thrilled to discover that there are vegan food tours in Mexico City. 

As soon as I saw that, I booked one or Heather booked it for both of us, and we turned up, and we had an absolute blast, and that was when I knew, yeah, I definitely want to get Mena on the podcast because she has some really [00:01:00] unique perspectives to share, and also some great recommendations for travelers. 

So, that was a lot. Mena, would you mind sharing, go into a little bit of detail because you do a lot of things, the things that you do in the vegan travel space. 

So I started doing this because I wanted vegan visitors, tourists, travelers, however it is that you want to call it, to actually have a grassroots, local, experience. So I've been working in the travel industry for, I want to say, 16, 17 years, and I worked for very, very big companies. I am vegan now, but at the time, I was vegetarian. I was always very frustrated that everybody that didn't want to eat meat, like they would pay exactly the same price, and then you would get stuck with very bad food. And coming from Mexico, not only Mexico City, which is particularly rich in gastronomy, but coming from Mexico, [00:02:00] where our food pre-Hispanic, Mexican food, is vegan. I was like, why are we stuck with just like a nopal taco. The goal of everything that I'm doing in this space is for the vegan. It doesn't encompass only the food. It also has to do with compassion and horizontal collaboration, and all that. So I also saw in the boom, that Mexico had with vegan food, vegan restaurants, that a lot of these projects were not really vegan. Like, I would call them plant-based because they didn't really share these values of compassion, and fair work, and fair wages, et cetera. 

So I decided that all of the tour that I wanted to design, with this specific ethical guidelines, and this, all to say, that within this space of vegan travel, what I'm doing is, I want to bring a more fair way of traveling, not only for passengers or guests, but also [00:03:00] for locals. 

If you run a tour where you have people actually experience the way locals live, there's a connection there. I think, it breaks a little bit of the barrier that nowadays, we face in the otherness. I guess, that's what I'm trying to do. 

I think you're doing a great job with that. I got to experience that firsthand on tour that I did with you, that Heather and I did. I'd love it if you wouldn't mind, telling our listeners what services do you offer to travelers, because I only did one of several food tours that you have. So why don't you talk about all of the different tours that you do? 

So to start with, we do have a different array of tours, but everything always has the same guidelines or the same kind of like access, which is, first of all, fair wages for everybody. There's no meat on the tours. I do accommodate vegetarians. Basically, because I think everybody [00:04:00] has their processes and it's a way of opening the path for vegetarians to maybe, adopt a vegan style. So this is that, andcompassion, and fairness for everybody. Having said that, like you mentioned, I do different types of tours. So the first one, the bestseller, the most popular one, is the one that you did, which is the Street Food Tour, where we visit local grassroots projects that are run by minorities, be it women, well, women are not a we're not a minority anymore, L-G-B-T-Q businesses, et cetera. And also the food is very, very authentic and local. I do the Teotihuacan Pyramids. That particular tour, I'm very proud of, because most of the money, because I kind of have to make a living, but most of the money stays in the community. So the aim of that tour was for you to actually have a connection with the location and the communities that you're visiting because most of the tours that go to Teotihuacan, they [00:05:00] take you on a van, on a tourist van, then they let you out. Here are the pyramids, and then you go to a cave to have some food, and then you leave. So the goal of that tour was for visitors to get to know the people that live in the town, and that run the town, and that make a living out of the town. So in that tour, we hire a local guide. They are from the community. Then we take you to a family run project. It's a generational project. I think it's the fourth generation, and they are obsidian artisans. So basically, the Teotihuacan area, which is San Juan de las Pirámides and San Martín de las Pirámides. Those are the two main towns that are a adjacent to the pyramids. Obviously, they're their number one source of income are the  Teotihuacan pyramids. But apart from that, from free Hispanic times, from many years ago, there's a lot of obsidian around because.. 

That's volcanic glass, isn't it. 

Exactly. That's volcanic glass. Exactly. And basically, everybody around, not everybody, but some people around the [00:06:00] pyramids have made a living out of making really, really beautiful stuff out of obsidian. Which is also a connection to our pre-Hispanic past, because Aztecs used to make weapons out of obsidian, because that was a material that they would find everywhere. 

So, you know, it's a very cool connection. We go to this workshop, a family workshop. They don't only make stuff out of obsidian, they also do marmalades and pulque. It's a fermentation from the agave. Yeah, it's like a hard kombucha, and it's also a pre-Hispanic drink. 

They make all of thesehomemade, handcrafted stuff, and you go and see them, you talk to them. You see their beautiful dogs because they have three beautiful dogs and they're super friendly. I'm huge fan. And after that, for example, there's always a food aspect on the tours. So in this case, you go to someone's house, you go to a family's house, they cook you either a vegan or vegetarian lunch, Mexican lunch. And then you get to hang out with them, and you get to ask them questions, and you meet their kids [00:07:00] and you go to their house, and you have lunch in their space. 

So I think that's very special. We also only use public transportation in all of our tours. That's also something that I think is part of responsible travel. Like you need to see how the working class in the place that you are visiting, basically, moves. It's also really cool to experience, especially when you don't speak the language, and you don't know where you are. 

A lot of people won't venture into that. So you have people like me. I nailed the subway, which is huge. Like that kind of stuff. So yeah, the pyramids. Then we also do markets, again, with the same focus in markets. We go to two different markets. One of them that is really, really hidden; it's basically a market that is covered in murals from the thirties. It's basically a museum. Not a lot of people know about it which is cool for me, and for our guests. It's something off-the-beaten-path. So we go to that, we go to the flower market. You try a couple of local fruits or quesadillas or that kind of thing, and then you have a cooking lesson. The cooking lesson is [00:08:00] given by a family or is one of the founders of the market, and it's one of the family members, usually grandma or grandpa. 

So you get to know what to learn, how to make a Mexican salsa in a mortar. Then you learn how to make huarache. Tlacoyos, do you remember that we tried tlacoyos the tour? 

Explain to our listeners. 

You can think of it like a stuffed dumpling that has been flattened into a football shape, and it's usually filled with refried beans. If it's small, it's at tlacoyo. If it's a little bit bigger than that's a huarache. So they also teach you how to make a huaraches and then you eat your salsa with them. I also do the wrestling. I give you an introduction on how the importance of tequila, mezcal, et cetera. I get you a song with a mariachi band and I explain all of this. I also do whale watching in Baja, California. The way we do it, all of the providers that we work with are a hundred percent committed to local laws. And all of the food included [00:09:00] there, it's again, either vegan or vegetarian, depending on your tastes. It's three nights, four days in which we learn about the whales. We get to snorkel a little, obviously, not with the whales. We leave them alone. We see them from afar. We get to snorkel with sea lions when they're there. If they want to come, it's cool. If they don't, then you just get to snorkel in a really cool place. And yeah, we have two new tours. One of them is Colonia Roma. So Colonia Roma, a lot of your listeners will probably have heard about it because it's a very popular neighborhood in Mexico City. You see them on TikTok everywhere. There's a lot of projects in Colonia Roma, Roma Norte particularly, that are very independent. These are projects that are very much local and grassroots, and we want to give them the spotlight, because most of the places that visitors visit in Colonia Roma Norte, they see on TikTok, and the only source of information is [00:10:00] TikTok or Instagram. And then there's this space that it's very difficult to get out of. We're going to call off-the-beaten-path, Central Mexico City, which is Colonia Guerrero and Colonia Buenavista, and Historical Downtown, which is where we started our tour. These are also projects that are very much involved in activism towards animal rights, and feminism, and decolonization and all that stuff. So I think, these people should know about them, yep. 

Absolutely. Well, as you're saying that, the thought that's going through my mind is like, when can I get back to Mexico? Because it was so fun. 

And yeah. I was very interested in what you said about the whales. I remember seeing on a YouTube video from some travel content creators that I really like. They went on a whale watching tour in Baja, California, and they managed to touch the whales. And I remember thinking at the time, that doesn't seem right, and where I live, we [00:11:00] actually have 'orcas'. We have a lot of whales really close by, and there are such strict rules about how close you are allowed to get. And people get very upset if you get any closer for, obviously, and I was like, hang on a minute, touching the whales. Feels like that shouldn't happen. The tour operator must have allowed this to happen? 

I'll tell you experiences that we had to worry in our tours over there. There's always this philosophicalbarrier, how you interpret life, and how whales interpret life, and how dogs interpret life. The times that I've gone on these tours, and it's been at least six or seven times, the whales will come to you. The whales come to you, and they just hang out. And then, for example, one of the guides will scratch them. 

Oh. 

They like a dog that turns for the belly rub. They will do that, and they will not leave. This is just a boat in the middle of nowhere because you're not chasing whales. There's [00:12:00] a lot of tour operators that do that. But the way we do it, and my partners do it, is we go on the boat and then you are there, and then you'll see a whale and then it approaches you. And if you're lucky enough, because it doesn't happen all the time, and like it's happened once, that I've been there, the whale will actually come to you and then the gut will scratch the whale. And then she turns, and then she will stay there to stay for the scratch, and then she gets tired and leaves. There's this little cues, like animals and other sentient beings, they always give us these cues, that I'm enjoying it or I'm not enjoying it. I think, the difference is when the animal comes over to you, this is something that I always tell my passengers where we go on the sea lion snorkeling bit of the tour. It's like, guys, you cannot touch them, like it is completely forbidden for you to touch them. But if you have a sea lion that comes over to you and plays with you, they can touch us, but you cannot touch them. And especially young sea [00:13:00] lions, especially male cubs, they will come over to you. 

So it's always the focus of wildlife expeditions, I think, should always be the welfare and the comfort of the species that you're visiting. Like animals always gives us these cues that they feel comfortable or they don't. So I think it's always very important to follow them. I am totally against a boat chasing and making people touch the whales. No, that's wrong. I've seen it with my own eyes, the whale will come over to you and be like, pet me. And then the guide pets it, and then it just goes away. I don't speak whale, but if I do that, then I assume that they're enjoying it. Like that's just, yeah. 

Yeah. It really sounds like there's some nuance there and some different cases, for sure. And yeah, I mean, sounds totally legit from where I'm sitting, for sure. 

But it's [00:14:00] always this space of giving animals their respect. Don't invade their habitat. You are the spectator and they're welcoming you. So back off. That's always what I've said. 

Let's talk a little bit about the vegan scene in Mexico. I mean, you've been vegan for a while now, from what I can tell. How has the vegan scene changed from when you first went vegan in Mexico City? 

Ooh, basically, I call it the pre-pandemic and post-pandemic. 

Oh, really? 

Yeah. Mexico City changed a lot after the pandemic. For two years people were locked up and then everybody wanted to start traveling. I don't really know exactly how it is that Mexico City became like this big focus or this mecca of tourism and stuff. But starting this boom of tourism in Mexico City, the vegan scene started growing. Now, this is for obvious reasons, especially the label 'vegan', When I first started being vegan, because I've been vegetarian, but when I [00:15:00] started being vegan, I never really had an issue with it because Mexican food, like a lot of people don't know about this, but Mexican food, essentially, is vegan. 

Right. 

Essentially, our food, since forever, has been vegan. Now, in modern times, how has the scene changed during the last few years? I would have to say, that commercially, vegan places have absolutely exploded, as I mentioned, after the pandemic because obviously, you have a certain amount of people coming in with a certain level of wealth. And then they're, again, plant-based or vegan, let's call it vegan because it's easier. But yeah, all of these littlebusinesses, falafel for example, falafel wasn't a thing when I was growing up or when I turned vegetarian. I was 18, I'm 38 now. I remember like falafel, what is falafel, and obviously, this influx of people from everywhere. Like I've always said, that when you have an [00:16:00] influx of people from everywhere, your gastronomical scene grows all the time. But in regards to the vegan scene, something that has also grown during the years, has been the awareness of animal rights. The awareness of animal rights and anti-speciesism activism has been very much in hand with the growth of the vegan scene in Mexico. So it has always been very political in that sense. For example, within that same timeframe, the feminist movement also grew. So how do I see all of this? I think, all of thisintersectional movements have definitely grown in the last 10 years, and so has the offering of food, street food, for example, has gone up. Because when you have more people caring about not killing animals, you need to feed those people and those people want tacos. So you're going to open a taco place, it's a pastor taco, but it's without the meat. 

There's the other part, like I [00:17:00] said, after the pandemic, which is, for example, a lot of people from the United States, they decided to come here because they were able to do more here than in the United States. Then that gives way to other types of businesses that are more plant-based than vegan. It has grown a lot. It has exponentially grown, absolutely. 

 As you're talking about this, I'm thinking about my experiences in Mexico City. Obviously, I did your tour as well, but I also did some free walking tours. And just by walking around, it made me wonder about a question that maybe, you can help me answer, which is, Mexico seems to really value and normalize this idea of being political, this idea of protesting and activism. It just seems to be ingrained, like for hundreds of years. I wonder if that is maybe why you are noticing this increase in more vegan restaurants. So, [00:18:00] is my observation accurate? Please feel free to tell me if I'm very wrong. 

Mexicans definitely do have a political memory. We have been lucky enough that we have never had a proper dictatorship as in Argentina or Brazil or Chile, like these brutal dictatorships. I would say, that Mexicans are very vocal about their grievances in regards to the political scene and that's a very good observation that has changed in the last 10 years. I would say, from my generation on, I think your observation doesn't only apply to Mexico, it applies to all colonized countries. So when you come from a country where essentially, your contemporary history is made or is born in violence because it's basically all of us colonized countries. All of our contemporary history is born in blood, in the theft of lands, in the rape of women, in the slaughter of animals. So I think, [00:19:00] when you start questioning these things or when you start pointing these things, and when you have violence around you all the time, and I'm not even talking about colonialism. I'm talking about the simple fact of going on the subway and have some dude getting up in your space orliving in the peripherals of Mexico City and being very underserved and disenfranchised. I think when you grow up in this circumstances, you start questioning the pain of other people, and not only other people, but also other species. So I think it makes you a little bit more empathetic. And having said that, I think, the reason why there has been such a big increase in interest in veganism or in animal rights activism, or even our complete solidarity as a people with the Palestinian movement, it's because we know what pain feels. We know what violence feels like, [00:20:00] so you start thinking to yourself, what can I do to get out of that cycle of violence? What can I do to not contribute further. And so when you start thinking about all these things. I've always said, that not eating or deciding not to eat meat, it's the gateway drug. Because once you start not eating meat, then you start to care for so many other things. And I think in Mexico, when you start caring about feminism then you think to yourself, how can I be a true feminist if I continue to consume products from exploited female cows, et cetera. It's about generations being more conscious about how their actions impact other aspects of life. And obviously, as you quite literally, feed the demand for vegan products, the offer is going to rise. We have to consider all of the different aspects of why it is, that it has grown. Veganism is about empathy and compassion, and [00:21:00] solidarity, and choosing to do the least harm in all your ways. 

So Mena, it's clear to me that you are so passionate about promoting restaurants that, you know, maybe don't have the huge marketing budget that are owned and operated by people that are more disenfranchised than others. There are so many vegan restaurants in Mexico City. What are the ones that you think that people should go out of their way to get to? Because sometimes, you know, if a restaurant is far from where most tourists stay, and there are some great options. I know, I experienced this when I was in Mexico City. There's some great options on your doorstep, those other places that maybe, they can't afford the rent. They're a little bit hard to get to. So which ones should we really make an effort to go? Because the food is great, and the people are doing amazing things. 

That's a great question. And [00:22:00] yeah, that's another one of the reasons why I started all of this, because like you said, sometimes it's so difficult to get to these places. Either you don't hear from them or it's just too difficult to get to. The first one that I'm going to talk about, it's Veguerrero. You actually went there, and it's a love story. Yeah, I know. It's a love story between me and Veguerrero. As you remember, we were in a very working class neighborhood. Mexico City is a city full of contrast. You can be in Polanco, which is super affluent, and then you make a right turn, and then you are basically in a working class neighborhood. So we have this everywhere. Veguerrero is in Colonia Buenavista. Colonia is neighborhood, basically translates to neighborhood. It's in Colonia Buenavista, which is a prettylocal neighborhood in Mexico City. And they are one of the reasons why I started the street food tour. It's my favorite taco in the city. I remember just eating it for the first time and saying, oh my god, people need to know about this taco.  

 Really good. 

This cannot stay hidden. And then I started to talk to Sarah, [00:23:00] which is the owner and the brains behind it. And I found out that this was very early in the incarnation of the tour back in 2018. 

And she started saying how she was very involved in animal rights activism and it's every August of every year, we have a very big protest, which is the Anti-speciesism march. And she's one of the organizers or she works with the organizers. Yeah. The other place that it comes to my mind too, is V de Vegano. I am very proud of them and I respect them so much because they decided to start, not in Mexico City, but in the peripherals of Mexico City. And the peripherals of Mexico City is our very underserved areas that have always been overlooked by all the governments. There's a lack of infrastructure. They're very violent areas. People don't have a lot of opportunities and they still decided to open a restaurant there, a place there. 

Why? Because they were trying to bring vegan food to working class people. And because there's also vegans in those areas. Most [00:24:00] people that work in the city cannot afford to live in the city, so they have to live two hours away from here. And so they decided to open as an act of protest and as an act of resistance. They opened their second location in Colonia Guerrero which is part of the tour. They're very grassroots, and their food is amazing, really fantastic. So V de Vegano is another place that I have to tell everybody to go to. Another place that I really enjoy is Dystopia. 

Dystopia. Okay. I don't know that one. 

Dystopia is just very small. They make an amazing vegan pozole, by the way, because it's so difficult to get pozole in the vegan version. But they make amazing vegan pozole. They have two different projects. One of them is Dystopia Coffee Zone, which is not only coffee, but they have amazing milanesas, and they have amazingtacos. 

Can you explain pozole because I don't know this dish. 

Pozole is a stew. It was a ceremonial dish back in the day. Nowadays, it's a stew. [00:25:00] Yeah. The base is pork broth and three different types of chilies. Obviously, that's the meat eating version. The vegan version, the way Dystopia makes it, it's the same broth without the pork. Instead of using meat, you have oyster mushrooms, zucchini blossoms, champignons. Yeah, it's really nice. And then you get some tostadas. I don't know if you remember this crispy corn stuff. Yeah. So you get a tostada and you eat it together with your tostada. So it's this really rich stew, that it's amazing. And their other project is Mamma Pizza Vegana. It's one of the best vegan pizzas that I've had in the city. And the owners, they're both very much involved in animals rights activism too. They work a lot with animal rescues. For example, they have two pizzas for 200 pesos and half of it they give away to animal rescues. But these are animal rescues that are not only for pets, but also for abused farm animals. [00:26:00] So they are fantastic. They're fantastic. I love them. The other one that I can think of is Veganion, which is actually in the area. Mamma Pizza Vegana, it's in Colonia Roma. And then Veganion is actually very close to them, and Veganion, they make a buffet every weekend, and some buffet that has so many things. And part of those proceedings also go to animal rescues. So if you can have delicious food in solidarity with a social cause that is congruent and it's for the animals, which in the end, I think most of us do. We do what we do because of them. Then why not have it? So these are like the projects that I'm very proud of. 

They sound like they're doing amazing work. I'm always very much in awe of people who can have a business and, you know, working in restaurants that is not easy and somehow find the time to devote so much time and resources to this kind of work. I mean, with our [00:27:00] business, you know, we will go and visit places that are doing work to protect humans and non-human animals. And of course, we give big donations and stuff. Sometimes I feel like, gosh, there's so much more we could be doing, but the resources are just so, so hard. So I guess, there's something that I need to think about and work on. But again, it's amazing that these people who work so hard, and in hospitality, are able to stop everything and put together a huge fundraiser overnight. It just blows my mind. 

It was pretty cool. Yeah. 

So a place that I have on the list here, and I'm kicking myself that I did not get to when we were in Mexico City, is Gatorta. Can you talk about Gatorta please? 

Yeah, so Gatorta, those girls, I really love them. So Gatorta is actually one of the very first street food stalls to open in Mexico City that are fully vegan. They make tortas, they make tacos as well. They make the best tiramisu in the world. [00:28:00] I swear to god. I think they sold their soul to the devil to achieve that. Like I have never tasted such an insane tiramisu. It's two friends, and both of them decided that they wanted to make street food for people, and they decided to make tortas, like that's their backbone, right? 

They're also one of the founders of the Anti-speciesism march. They also have a lot of focus towards the feminist movement. Their food is fantastic. Like they make this torta, it's a schnitzel, it's a homemade schnitzel made with chickpea flour. I'm not going to tell you the other ingredient, then I would be giving away industry secrets. 

Of course. 

But it's basically, a torta is a street food sandwich, right? They add some homemade refried beans, fresh vegetables, pickles, onions, caramelized onions, tomatoes, and then they put this fantastic schnitzel on your torta. And then they also make an amazing chile morita. They make an amazing chile morita sauce. It will change your life. Yeah, they're fantastic. The only day they're not open, it's on [00:29:00] Mondays, but every other day you can visit them. 

Absolutely amazing. Oh my goodness. So many recommendations of incredible places. Anyone listening to this podcast, they need to really think about putting Mexico City or Mexico higher up on their list. It's very interesting to me because I've only been living in North America for five years, and I never lived even close to this place, and Mexico just felt so exciting and new. I was just so impressed with how safe I felt walking around as a tourist, how easy it was to walk around. I mean, Heather and I were walking 35,000 steps a day. It was really nice, like walking through beautiful parks and beautiful places. Public transport was really great. Like you introduced us to public transport, clean and very efficient and easy to understand, and so much history and [00:30:00] culture. Like we went to several museums, it was incredible. The parks, pre-Hispanic. Oh, amazing. It just really took my breath away, and I absolutely can't wait to go back. It was so cool. 

Yeah, we cannot wait to have you back. 

Thank you. Mena, I want to thank you so much for taking the time to be on the podcast. It's so lovely to chat with you again. I know that many people listening to this podcast will definitely want to check out your tours for their visit to Mexico, which I'm sure has just jumped high up on their list of bucket trips. How can people find you and book your tours in a way that the money gets to local people? 

So we do have a website. It is travellingherbivore.com. Travelling with a double L. You can find all of our tours there. We are also on Instagram @travellingherbivore. We are on TikTok @travellingherbivore. Everything with a double L. So that's the way that you can find [00:31:00] us. There's contact information over there too. Yeah, so if you're interested in any or everything that we do, just hop on our website and we can have a chat or you can book directly there, for sure. 

I love it. I love it. And I will say to listeners that I initially found out about Mena's tours on Viator. I often use Viator which is a platform for activities. I use it as a way to see what's out there, and then if I can, and sometimes it requires a little bit of detective work, and that is how I learned about you. I try to find the website that belongs to the tour operator. So in this case, I managed to figure out that it was Travelling Herbivore. These Viator platforms, they take a huge cut. I will tell you listeners, and I don't know about you Mena, butI'm on a Facebook group with tour operators, and a lot of them use Viator, and GetYourGuide, and these other platforms to get [00:32:00] their products in front of people's eyes because these platforms are so powerful in so many ways. And they are constantly messing with tour operators. Not only do they take a big cut, but they do some really, problematic, unethical things that really can damage or ruin a tour's business. Just arbitrarily canceling their tour and the tour operator doesn't know why. It's really crazy. 

Yeah. And the worst part of all of this, is that, it's never the traveler's fault. Like you're always going to go to whatever the internet gives you first. But what's really bad is that, for example, these big companies, like we call them OTAs or online travel agents or agencies, apart from taking a cut from you, they will also cannibalize your bookings. Not a lot of people know how damaging it is to book through these third party agents, especially for small businesses like myself. First of [00:33:00] all, it is so much better for you guys to book directly on our website because it's cheaper for you. On our website, you are doing things directly with us and for example, all of your reviews at the end, they're going to go straight to our platform instead of these third party platforms. So another dynamic that I do on my tours, is that at the end, I will ask you to go on our Google Business Page to leave your review because that gives us authority on the internet and it gives us a little bit more presence. If you go all the way to the bottom of whatever activity that you're looking for, except for Airbnb. If you go all the way to the bottom of the page of the activity that you're interested in, it's going to say, provider, and then the name of the provider. And what I do is, I always look for the name of the provider, go to the website and book directly. And I always try to talk about this to customers because there's also a part on your reviews that says 'value for money'. If you're booking [00:34:00] through a third party operator, and you're being asked about value for money, bear in mind, that whatever it is that you paid, we need to give at least 30% to these people. Have that in mind, and then give your comments on it. But yeah, please go ahead and book directly. It's really, really good for local businesses like myself. 

Amazing. Mena, thank you again for being on the podcast. It was lovely to chat with you. 

Thank you for having me. It was lovely to talk to you again.