Annmarie Espina on ADHD

Rather than rely on medications and focus on the disadvantages of ADHD, Annmarie created a method to harness the POWER of her diagnosis. She's been a tremendous resource for me on my ADHD journey.

You can find Annmarie on Instagram HERE and keep in touch via her website HERE.  That second link will also take you to her podcast, which is definitely worth a listen if you or someone you know has ADHD.

Wondering if you have ADHD?  You can visit ADHD Online to find a licensed/certified practitioner for a diagnosis.

Transcript

Sam: Welcome back to Meant for Moxie.

Sam: If you do not follow along on my socials and blog, you may not know that about 15 months ago, I was diagnosed with ADHD. Now imagine being 51 years old and finally only getting an explanation for the 150 computer tabs that are open all the time and the computer of your brain shuts down. That's what having ADHD is like. In getting this diagnosis, there were a lot of complex reactions that I had to it, most of which was relief. It explained a lot about the educational struggles that I had had and some workplace struggles in the course of my career. Fortunately, the Internet is full of wonderful resources these days, and one of the most helpful that I came across was a young woman named Anna Marie Espina, who is an ADHD Success coach. At her young age, she has created systems and a pathway to regaining the control of your brain that you need and changing your behaviors to achieve great success without a lot of medical intervention. So I was really happy to learn about her and the systems. I'm happy to introduce you to her today. And stay tuned for more on Mint for Moxie.

Sam: Welcome back to Meant for Moxie. Today I am excited to have Annemarie Espina, who is an expert on ADHD and entrepreneurship and to explain a little bit about how I connected with her. You guys are pretty familiar that most of my podcast guests are people I've met through social media because I think they're just amazing people out there. And when I got my ADHD diagnosis about six months ago, I was looking for resources in the arenas of entrepreneurship and specializing in ADHD, and I came across this amazing and very wise young woman who really seemed to understand the struggles and works as a coach with entrepreneurs. So I was immediately interested, and I'm excited to introduce you all to Henry. Welcome.

Annmarie: Thank you so much for having me. Sam. I'm super excited about this. I get really excited to connect with other women, and the first program that I actually did was about women having more confidence with ADHD in particular. So it was like a whole self love journey. And so I just think the work that you're doing is so important because I just think everybody should feel confident with who they are and having the ability to come back to themselves and really step into their power. So I love the work that you're doing.

Sam: Thank you so much. And it's interesting, I had several blog posts, like, over the summer where I wasn't quite ready to reveal the diagnosis because I was kind of processing it myself, but I was talking about my own inner bully and how horrible she was to me. And you're stupid. You're not worthy. Even though I coach other people in their confidence and I'm a great hype girl, the kinds of things that have always gone through my head because some of my learning was just harder without the focus. And so that's really changed a lot of what my coaching program is going to look like going forward, because I think I might finally be able to shut her up a little bit, which is exciting. It's very exciting. Tell me a little bit about when you were diagnosed, how that was for you growing up. The audience can't see you, but considerably younger than me, so I think you probably got a more timely diagnosis than 51. What was that like?

Annmarie: Yeah, I love this topic so much because I was somebody who was diagnosed when I was younger, and I remember I was going into a lot of rooms on clubhouse, and people were understandably, like, when you get diagnosed older in life, there's the grieving period, right? Only if I knew. And I was sharing my experience of what it was like to get diagnosed young. And I had somebody say to me after I was sharing the experience because he was diagnosed late, and he was kind of struggling to move past the point of the acceptance of, like, okay, here's where we are now. And so for him, he said, after I heard your story, it made me realize that maybe I still would have had challenges growing up. For me, I was diagnosed when I was, like, ten or twelve years old. I was super grateful. My mom was, like, a huge advocate for me the whole time that I was in school. And so I had tons of extra support. With the extra support came a lot of separation from my peers and singling out. And so I got extra time on my test. However, I just hated it. I loathed every moment of it because they would take me and put me into, like, a special room and my whole life. So it'd be like, okay, test time. Somebody would come and pick me up and take me into the room. People would sometimes read my test to me, or they would sit there and do the writing for me because I was also diagnosed with dyslexia. My very first assessment that I did, I don't know if it disappeared or I don't know. I don't have it anymore. Yeah. And then kind of as I grew older, I just began to hate my brain. I hated myself a lot because I was just like, oh, my God, what is wrong with me? What is the problem? Why can't I just learn like everybody else? And so me and my friend that was in one of the quote, unquote, special classes with me, we always used to laugh about it and call them the dumb classes. Oh, yeah, we got to go. Math time. Okay, we're going over to the dumb class. We like the stupid class, right? And so we hated it. We never talked about it. It was like the elephant in the room. And I think that's a huge problem with society, that's a lot of the things that I talk about in my coaching, it's not anything to do with you. It's this structure that is diagnosed as as not, quote unquote, normal. And so what a lot of people do is they beat themselves up because they don't fit into that typical classification. And so a lot of that is like, just removing yourself from that. That's somebody else's interpretation about you in the way that your brain works. And so I think a lot of society needs to be a lot more inclusive to diversity in many forms. Of course, there's lots of movements that are happening now. That's kind of my experience with diagnosis.

Sam: At any point, because this is a big question I'm getting from people. Are you going to do meds? Were you medicated? If you were, what was that like? Are you still and why did you choose that path now that you're grown up and can advocate for yourself?

Annmarie: Yes. Love this question as well. So I was medicated probably for honestly, I feel like maybe 18 years. And I was heavily reliant on the medication. I had tried literally every single pretty much medication that there was. My mom was a pharmacist, and so I tried the whole gamut of everything. But people are like, well, try a different one. No, they just don't work for me anymore. They served me for a lot of my life. There was huge, I guess, results that I got from them. And when I was in school, it really helped me perform better. And then I found kind of as I was getting older, I kind of knew, okay, well, do it until I'm done school. And then I kept taking them. And I was living in Australia. I actually got diagnosed three times in my whole life I got diagnosed. They were all the same experience. But yeah, just to confirm that, I had ADHD. And when I went to Australia, I lived there for a little while, and I had to get diagnosed by a psychiatrist there so I could actually get my medication. And there was probably a two week period when I was in university and I didn't have my medication, and I was, like, screaming for it. I was like, I need this. I can't function without it. And then I was like, you can't be like this. You need to get yourself off of them. I still took them all throughout school. Again, I only take them on the days that I had to study. And then now I took myself off of them. I had really bad side effects, probably for, like, six months. And I decided that's enough. I came off of them. It was super messy transition. However, for me, as soon as I started doing a lot of the transformational work myself, is when my symptoms started to change. And so that's where I kind of found this sweet spot of, like, I'm not on meds anymore. And you can absolutely manage without meds. Yes, meds work for some people, and that's totally fantastic, but you can also manage without them when you have the right tools.

Sam: That's great to hear. And just to clarify, neither of us is a medical professional, so please watch your own doctor for advice.

Annmarie: Okay, thank you.

Sam: In working with clients, do you see that there are some people who, like, if they're getting diagnosed and they're coming to you, going on the meds during that transition period until they start learning the systems? I mean, is that a reasonable way to go? I'm thinking of a lot of the questions that I'm getting from people as I'm trying to figure it out myself.

Annmarie: Yeah, I think with the meds, everybody has such a different experience, right? And so I think if people are curious about trying meds, it's so important to just go and talk to your doctor because everybody is so different, right? There are some people who want to be on meds forever, and they really enjoy them, and they get really good results from them, and then there's other people who really don't like them. So one of the things there's a book called Scattered Mind by Dr. Gabor Mate, and he is a doctor. He deals a lot with trauma and childhood, and when he reads his book, he still refers to it as Add. And this is like a total ADHD side note. I'll get to my story, and he calls it actually that it should be ADHD, should be something about attunement with the mother, because he says ADHD actually comes from not proper attune with the mother. And so he teaches you, like, when you're a baby and when you're growing up in your younger years. And so he talks a lot about the trauma that goes along with ADHD and how they're linked together. And I just think it's beautiful. In his book, the way that he describes from a doctor's perspective is that it's a stop gap. Like, it's something that you use as, like, okay, here for a period of time, and then you can learn the skills. I've heard of other people in the space who say they will use the medication at certain periods of their life. So if you're having a big transition or you're having a big life change, they go back on it. So meds are super personal, as you mentioned. It's something kind of talk to your doctor about. There's so many different kinds that you can try, so it might take a while for you to find what works for you.

Sam: Thank you for that. You mentioned this doctor speaking about trauma, and that was interesting. In my own diagnosis process is there was a lot of I had moved like, I'd gone to four elementary schools in five years. There was definitely a moment, a snapshot in time that I could identify where I felt different. And again, we'd moved a bunch of times. I had met a grandmother that I hadn't known and when I met her, she'd already been diagnosed with stage four cancer and she passed away and making new friends and definitely there was a lot of trauma tied up in that. Among other things, I was surprised because I truly have always believed that any mental health and learning issues are truly biological. But I was really surprised to learn how much of it can be tied to trauma and some of its nature, some of its nurture and that can also cause some misdiagnoses one way or the other. Sometimes it's anxiety and sometimes it's ADHD, and then other times it's just the whole messy ball of wax. Have you seen that also?

Annmarie: Totally, yeah. And I would say going through my as I read that book, Scattered Vines, it was just crazy how many realizations that I had. And a lot of the trauma that he acknowledges as well comes from like even way before you're going to school, it happens like in utero, it happens because the baby picks up all of this, the baby picks up the mother's stress cues, how fast her heart is beating, where her eyes are, like all the stuff that's happening. And so the baby starts to absorb all this stuff and so it's not proper, like your brain is not developing properly. But I think the amazing thing that when you have this knowledge of understanding of the trauma, it's like working with somebody and understanding yourself and starting to unravel some of those layers and learning to nurture yourself through the process of that so that you start to create new neural pathways in the brain. Not saying that ADHD is just going to disappear when you start dealing with your traumas, but for me, I found when I started dealing with my traumas that I had in my childhood, my system started to change a lot, which is really cool, right? And so I think that was a huge part of me having success on taking myself off meds.

Sam: That's great. It's funny that this comes up because I actually ended up with a conversation about generational trauma with a friend who is a social worker with school kids, high school kids recently, and epigenetics and things like that. And it was both fascinating and devastating to learn that these things can pass in a biological way even though they were potentially emotional traumas and there's some guilt that goes with that. But what she kept saying is the point is that if we can recognize it and address it and keep trying to fix it like if I know that my kids probably have some of the anxiety issues or whatever that I have been so blessed with, give them the awareness to kind of address it and move forward maybe at a younger age. And now that they're preparents, by the time they come to have children. They will know what those potential things can be and perhaps nurture their children in a healthier way. Generationally, we try to do better than the last generation. And I want to be very careful because I'm not looking to assign guilt at all. But I think that we're growing our skill set with every generation as well and hopefully getting to a place of enlightenment where we're like, okay, I need to pay more attention.

Annmarie: Yeah.

Sam: Years before I maybe get pregnant or whatever it might be. You went to college. Did you intend to go into this field, or did you do something else for a while?

Annmarie: No. So my first post secondary study that I did was a Diploma of Architectural Technologies. So that's like, basically drafting. And I loved it because it was designed. So I'm, like a huge architectural interior design fan, I guess you could say. And I studied that. I realized, like, two days into my week long Practicum that it was not for me because it was very solitude. Like, you just sit at your desk draft, and then you go home. And I was like, I'm way too social for that. And then I actually started traveling. I went to Australia, and I studied a Bachelor of Health promotion, which is the creation of programs and services on a public health scale. So I really, really enjoyed that. And I think a lot of that informed kind of what I'm doing now. And yeah, that was kind of that then. That industry was very slow paced, and I am not a slow pace person. I like fast. So, yeah, then I actually ended up getting a job. I kind of went back to my design routes. I got a job doing custom kitchen, like, renovations, designs, new builds, all that kind of stuff. And I loved it was super fun, but I was just, like, missing something. And then that's kind of how I got into ADHD coaching. I just knew I wanted more for myself in the sense of helping people. I was like, I want to help people make the income so that they can buy the beautiful house. Right? Yeah.

Sam: Well, that's fantastic. I think the ADHD brain actually lends itself to entrepreneurship simply because the brain sees all the possibilities. Now, I was having physical illness symptoms several years ago and went to a Rheumatologist who asked me, first time a doctor ever asked me, what's your brain like? And this is still probably three or four years before my diagnosis, what's your brain like? And I actually referenced that. Meme. It's like 50 Internet tabs open at the same time the computer crashes and where's the dog barking. It's just utter chaos all the time. However, that also allows you to see opportunities in so many things, and I think that's part of why also, sometimes we don't play well with others. Like, I would say I'm not a good employee. I'm not terrible.

Annmarie: I've been fired too many times.

Sam: I'm not a good employee. I'm always sitting there going, well, why don't we try this? Because we never did it that way. We don't do things that way. I'm like? Well, why not? Let's try it. And they're like, Nobody likes changed. And it's kind of my fuel. So I think that becoming an entrepreneur is very appealing. In that space, you can kind of decide when you're going to work and how much you're going to work and wanting to help others as well. Do you find that with your clients?

Annmarie: Yeah, well, I think people have this understanding that ADHD is like, wrong, or it's not going to help you or whatever. Right. And yes, if you don't have the tools to manage ADHD, it can be a very chaotic life. Right. But the thing is, I look at people who are the most successful entrepreneurs in the world, and those are people who have ADHD. Right. Literally, they have the multi million, billion dollar businesses. And so people with ADHD genuinely make the best entrepreneurs. And because we're easily distracted and we follow our inspiration and all the amazing things that come along with ADHD, that's how people get to that level. So I totally think it's an amazing thing. Right. And I heard somebody say the other day, too, like, how do you know that our brains are not the next evolution of whatever? Yeah, maybe it came from a source of trauma, but the world just keeps getting faster and faster and faster and it seems like people with ADHD are the ones that could keep up with it. Right.

Sam: Wow, that's really interesting. I'm trying to remember the name of the book I read years ago, the Celestine Prophecy. Have you ever read it?

Annmarie: No.

Sam: The idea is that the Mayans didn't actually disappear in that way. They reached the next level of enlightenment, so their energy was still here, their physical form was not. And it's a very woohoo story, but it's told in a way that was really interesting to me about are we and that's why they have that date on the Mayan calendar and things like that. That's when the next spiritual awakening was supposed to come, with this leveling up. So you're saying that is really interesting to me if maybe there isn't the option to do that. I also think the ADHD brain never wants to stop learning because it can't shut off. The biggest challenge is getting it to shut off. But I was a terrible student. I hated school. I love to learn to learn. I will go down rabbit holes of education and books and topics. And if someone had been able to say to me, this is when you were talking about that guy earlier on clubhouse, like how to harness that power because it can be a superpower. And to get a kid in that position excited to learn, not necessarily feeling confined by you have to do X number of math problems in a minute, which is vomit. I mean, like, that was time test the worst thing in the world. So that's really interesting. Let's look into that. Okay. Assuming most of my listeners are kind of like my peers your peers, people who are adults. If there is someone at home who is thinking they might be someone who has this, what do you recommend? Processes, resources, how to go about getting a reliable diagnosis and then first steps to take once that happens.

Annmarie: So it depends. Every country is a little bit different, right? Where are most of your listeners?

Sam: United States.

Annmarie: Okay, cool. So I know the process in the States is a little bit different than Canada. That's where I'm from. But the best place that you can get a diagnosis is from, like, a psychologist or a psychiatrist, because they see that kind of stuff all the time. I think in just where we're at in the Western world, it's quite common that a regular doctor will give diagnosis. I would push for going to see a psychologist psychiatrist, if that's an option for you. However, in saying that whether you go to your doctor or whatever, you need to have that conversation with somebody. I work with clients who don't get diagnosed, and they're just like, I just know I have it. I don't need to go get diagnosed. So it's totally personal preference. But I think when you're navigating a diagnosis, it's always coming back and reminding yourself that you're not your ADHD, you're not your diagnosis, you're not any of that. It's literally nearly something to give you answers, and then when you have those answers, not going down too many rabbit holes. Because I find that a lot of people who are really deep in the trenches of, like, reading nonstop about all the bad, quote unquote problems that people have with ADHD, they kind of get stuck in that. And so I always recommend to my clients is like, find your information, know what you need to know. And ADHD presents so differently in everybody that the best way that you can actually understand yourself is getting curious about what's working for you and what's not. If you're finding that you're struggling to get stuff done at home, or a lot of people struggle with just light stuff like cleaning, grocery shopping and all that kind of stuff, there's so many ways that you can navigate through that, right? Finding ways to make it enjoyable for yourself. And so it's just really removing yourself from the label of ADHD, removing yourself from the medical model of it, like using it to get your diagnosis and then saying, okay, I'm going to make that mean that it doesn't mean anything about me, and I'm going to decide for myself that I'm amazing. I'm going to decide for myself that I have amazing gifts to offer the world. So very much coming back to yourself and choosing your own power in that.

Sam: Instance, that's so great because I do think that that is one of the bigger struggles, particularly if someone is a little older and they've just really not understood what's been happening for a long time. Adding to that, when we speak of my generation, hormones play a huge part in what's happening in the brain as well. Part of the reason I'll be honest with you, that I wanted to get the diagnosis is I was I got to the point where I was like, it's either ADHD or I have early onset Alzheimer's disease, which is common in my family. And I put it off for a while because I was very concerned about it being early onset Alzheimer's, just forgetting things and missing things and eventually got kind of brave enough to step into it and find out, which is very good. Not quite there yet, but what I found out was that a lot of the hormonal shifts through perimenopause and menopause cause brain fog on top of what may already be in your head that you've been struggling with. So I noticed a significant uptick. I've heard from people who got COVID and got the brain fog from COVID and they're like, I don't know if this is temporary because of the COVID, if it's just exacerbated symptoms that I already had. And so I think it's so important that you're doing the work that you're doing so that as people are kind of growing, they can adapt to it from a much better place. I wasn't planning for it. I'm trying to react to all of this. So I think that what you do is giving a lot of hope to a lot of people as they try to navigate those years coming up, because it can change a lot of things.

Annmarie: And it changes right, depending on what period you're at in your life. I don't have kids and I'm not in a relationship right now, but I know that getting into relationship things change. And I know that when you have kids, things change. And like you're mentioning your hormones as they're changing, everything just changes. And it's about having the self awareness, having the tools to get curious about yourself and create more awareness and then having the tools to help yourself move through that because it's always changing. And I always say that to my clients, like, these are skills you're going to have for the rest of your life that you can come back and lean on at any point.

Sam: How did you develop your systems that you have in place for yourself and that you share with others?

Annmarie: Because I had so much support when I was younger, like in school, I think a lot of that was just kind of learning what systems worked for me, how to write. I didn't know how to write for years. I had to teach myself how to write, how to study. Like I knew I had to start way in advance of everybody else because it was going to take me longer to process. Well, that was my perception that it was taking me longer to process than everybody else. But I understood what the timelines were for me for how long I needed. So I think it's kind of like, just been evolving my whole life, right? Whether you're diagnosed late or early, you still have those systems in place. You're still understanding yourself and getting curious about what works for you. So now the processes that I have, some of them are like trial and error. I learn from other people, right? We are beings of social learning, and at every point in our lives, we've learned something from somebody else, and that's how we kind of created our system. So for me, my personal systems was trial and error, working with other people, learning from coaches, learning from mentors. Like, I've invested a lot into my business in terms of coaching and all that kind of stuff, which has like, anybody who has ADHD knows you just want things done and you want them done yesterday. So that's why I invest in coaches, because I'm like, how can I do this as fast as possible?

Unknown Speaker: Exactly.

Annmarie: That's kind of how I created my own systems. And so now it's like a blend of just everything that you kind of learn throughout your life. And I worked with a coach to help me bring in my authentic everything into my coaching and my learning now. So I have two amazing programs that I built out with her which have really helped me bring in like, a unique twist on everything that I have. So it's awesome.

Sam: Am I correct that you also have a podcast?

Annmarie: Yes, I do.

Sam: Tell us about that.

Annmarie: Yeah, so my podcast is the ADHD Refresh. So it is for the ADHD entrepreneur who is looking for systems, how to skills, tools to really help them leverage their success and leverage their ADHD in becoming more successful. So I think for me, there's a huge problem aware, problem based content out there online, and it drives me absolutely freaking bonkers because people get stuck in it. And so my whole thing is like, solution, solution, focus. Like, okay, we know the problem now. How are we actually navigating that? Which I find is so crazy. There's like huge publications. They don't give you any tips on how to navigate. They're just like, here's your problem, here's why you have ADHD and you're screwed. Pretty much. So I wanted to be able to give people tangible tools that they can take away and they can use to be successful in their lives. And I'm just totally obsessed with business. So that's how I ended up in my niche.

Sam: Actually. Since my diagnosis, I came up with what I realized. I'm going to be editing this first part out because I need to collect my thoughts. So when I. Was getting my diagnosis, I started to think back on some of the pitfalls that I'd had historically and certainly any boss you're talking about, like, I want it done right away. But I have always also been the worst procrastinator. And I had bosses who would say, block your time. Put the big rocks in first. That old parable about you got to put the big rocks in the jar or nothing fits. And when I got the diagnosis, I was like, okay, great advice, except everything is a big rock to me. Everything is a big rock. And so I started to really focus on, all right, when I have accomplished really huge things, how was I planning my time? And I realized there were categories that are, like, my drop everything. As a woman who's in the sandwich generation, I've got my parents generation, and then I've got my kids generation and trying to manage those things. I have a dog chewing something. I need to make sure it's not tragic. I'm sorry, squirrel.

Unknown Speaker: Sorry.

Sam: Yeah, he's eating a package off the floor. Okay. At it point. So you have these drop everything moments for your parents. Mom needs to go to a doctor, can't drive herself. Kid needs to get an X ray because he did something stupid. Whatever it is, those are drop everything moments that you have to build the time in. And with my brain, I was finding that everything I did was a drop everything moment. And so now that I separate those things out, when I feel the most fulfilled and I am the most successful, and all those systems are working properly, like, what would be four areas that stayed in balance and kind of put that together. I love the idea of also, I use it in conjunction with a day planner that another entrepreneur created specifically for the ADHD brain where she talks a lot about. Coming up, the three most important things you have to do today. And that's all great, but I still couldn't figure out what those things were. And so I love resourcing out to people many different ideas because we all do have this superpower brain that comes up with different coping mechanisms and different behavioral therapies and things that can really help. And so I love that you've got another podcast. It's a great resource for people as well. That's fantastic.

Annmarie: Yeah, that's so great.

Sam: Let's see. What do you think is the biggest challenge? Even with the awareness that you have, what's the biggest challenge you face still?

Annmarie: Honestly, the one that's most relevant right now has been just, like, going I actually just did a podcast about this the other day because I felt like I was on a hamster wheel and I couldn't get off of it. And then I kept saying to my friend, I was like, I'm so disconnected from myself. I don't know what is going on. Like, what is happening? It's like I felt honestly so out of my body. It was weird. And anyways, I ended up getting sick and I had to take a week off work. At first I thought it was going to be two days, and then I thought it was going to be three days, and then I was like, okay, four, okay, five with the weekend. Monday morning is going to come around, will be fine. And I was still sick all week, and I had to actually fully stop. And I realized in that moment how my hyper focus, it doesn't last necessarily always on a project because I find during the day I'm really used to checking my schedule and stuff like that. So it's rare for me to miss a meeting or be like super late to something, right? For me, my hyper focus lasts over like a long period of time, months, right? I just go down this black hole and then I come up, like, for example, when I was sick. And then I was like, okay, holy cow. I didn't realize how much I actually needed to stop and just chill and relax because they need to be able to process all the information and everything that I've been observing in the last little while and make my next move. So for me, the biggest challenge is scheduling and time to stop. So I have my quarter already for next year, and my goal is to take off one week a year, one week a quarter, sorry. So that I am allowing myself that space to stop and decompress or at least going away for a weekend here and there. So I'm away from work because as ADHD, we get so excited. We get so freaking passionate, right, that sometimes we forget to stop. We forget to stop and nurture our relationships. We forget to stop and look after ourselves. We get to forget to stop and do all the things. So that's my biggest challenge right now, is really pulling away from the safety of chaos because that's what it is. We feel safe in that space, and that's how our brains are kind of used to working. And for me, that's my next big thing that I'm working through, is it's fine being uncomfortable and slowing down, that's so accurate.

Sam: I want to say it was in 2017, the year that I launched my blog. I don't do a lot of resolutions. I do it more as like a focus word or a mantra or theme for the year. So my theme for that year was based around the world, unlimited. And I had seen this affirmation. I am an unlimited being. I can create anything I want in my brain that just invited so much chaos into my world. I mean, I did everything from starting the blog. I did it totally backwards. I called a friend of mine who'd been telling, you should be doing this, you should be doing this. I'm like, okay. And I called her because she said she'd build my website for me, and she said, all right, here are your action points that you need to do, and we'll reconvene in three weeks. And I said, no, we're doing this today. I already picked my name. I checked it. The domain is available. We're starting this today because if I don't, I won't get to it. It's a thing, I'd talk too long, and it worked, but the whole year was just utter chaos. And so then the following year, my theme was focus, but there's still a lot of chaos. I'm at the point where I don't have the focus. I still have all this chaos because I've spent my entire adult life allowing and reacting and not planning for it. So I love that idea of planning the downtime go play or whatever that is. That's so important to schedule that self care time. And more than just, I'm going to go get a massage today. I have a friend who is a self care coach, and she's like, it's not about getting your nails done or getting a massage. You've got to really do the inner work. That's what the self care is about. So that's fantastic that you are planning that for next year. I am curious, are you familiar with the enneagram at all?

Unknown Speaker: Yes.

Sam: How do you see that aligned with ADHD? Do you use that at all in working with your clients to kind of, if you have their number, help them recognize some of their strengths with it? I am personally finding it important to recognize some of my motivations when I start swirling out. So I'm just wondering, in your professional life, if that's something that you have kind of worked with and if you notice any trends on which numbers you mostly kind of show up.

Annmarie: So no, I don't incorporate that into my teachings right now. I have some other exercises that I do with clients to kind of create that self awareness. I think there's so many personality tests. I've done tons of them, so I find they all inform, and it's a really cool way to kind of see something in yourself. I'm not super familiar with anygram. I'm pretty sure mine is like seven wing three. So, like super extroverted seven?

Unknown Speaker: Yeah.

Annmarie: I haven't done any research to actually know in what context it plays in terms of ADHD, but I think the great thing is about most personality tests, right? It's about just understanding yourself more, knowing where your strengths are, where your weaknesses are, and being able to lean into your strengths. Right. There are certain things about us that, I mean, you can change. You can show up in any way that you want to in the world. But for me, I find there's quirks about me that I lean into 100% in some areas of my life, and I know I need to pull back in other areas of my life. So it's about having that awareness about what works for you, what doesn't work for you, where do you want to get yourself to, how can you get yourself there? So, yeah, I never thought about incorporating the Enneagrams.

Sam: Yeah, I'm actually going through the certification for Enneagram coaching because I am so fascinated with it. And I have been asking in the group, so we haven't come up with a definitive answer yet, but what is the rate of ADHD in seven s? Because it's really aligned with also so much of the way the personality is and I'm wondering if there's any kind of a connection to that at all. And then like, I have an eight wing and for those listening at home, a seven is the enthusiast. They're super extroverted. They should never sit behind a desk. They should always be an entrepreneur and very much like creator brains and just want to experience everything. And I have this eight wing and eight wings are very focused and totally the opposite of what my normal is. But I find it fascinating that I have these two things kind of right there together because when I'm working well, I can lean into more of that focus part. I just have to worry that it comes out as control freak, not focus. There's a difference. That's why I'm incorporating that, because I think that the awareness of what are those kind of motivations. And personally, the Enneagram has taught me more about personality types. I work with it, with my kids, my husband were all very aware of what each other's motivations are because of it. But there were a lot of people in the group who are like, oh, I'm a seven and I also have ADHD.

Annmarie: That's so interesting.

Sam: Yeah, I keep saying ADHD, enneagram, seven, youngest child and Aquarius. I'm screwed. I got it all, baby.

Annmarie: Aquarius.

Sam: So I promised you link your social media, your website, your podcast, because I think you have so many wonderful resources to share with everybody.

Annmarie: Kind of.

Sam: On a final note, what would be the most important advice that you can come up with with zero notice here for people who are kind of entering this journey.

Annmarie: So just remembering that you're perfectly whole as you are right, I've mentioned a few times the medical model and the diagnosis is something that is outside of you, it is not who you are. And when you come back to realizing that you are perfectly whole, amazing as you are right, the medical model is designed to find problems, period. It's not designed to help you thrive and see you as this magical human being that you are. So during the whole process is follow people who inspire you and follow people who make you feel better about yourself. If you're looking on social media or you're reading articles and you notice your body starts to change, or you don't start to feel very good when you're reading these articles and you start to feel bad about yourself. Stop following that. You don't need to go down that black hole forever, right? It's awareness and just coming back to yourself and seeing yourself is amazing. So that's what I would say.

Sam: Well, thank you so much. I'm so glad that you came across my feed because I think that your space in the internet is so inspiring and so helpful and I think you're going to be just a great resource for my followers. So thank you so much for being here today.

Annmarie: Thank you so much for having me. It's been super amazing. So thank you.

Sam: Wow, such great information. Thank you, Anne Marie, for being a special guest on Men for Moxie today. I will have all of the information about Annarie's contacts, her website, her social media channels in the program notes. Make sure you visit Moxymama TV to sign up for the newsletter as well, so you don't miss anything on episodes or the blog. Meant for Moxie is the companion podcast.

Sam: To Moxiemama by Sam Ditka.

Sam: More information can be found at www. Moxymama TV meant for moxie is produced by Timothy Ditka. Music the Energy, courtesy of Adhesive Music, can be found on itunes. Make sure you come back for our next episode, where we blow the lid off of a secret cult that is infiltrating suburban America.