The REAL Roberta Blevins, MLM survivor part two

Featured in the Prime documentary, LulaRich, Roberta Blevins started a podcast and an anti-MLM movement. Roberta joins us for part two to discuss the pyramid-y qualities of *almost* all MLMs and how they border on cult mentality to manipulate their members.

Roberta stuck around after our first episode to answer a few more questions.  Make sure you check out her podcast, Life After MLM as well as the Lularich doc to learn more.

Meant for Moxie is sponsored by Marco Pelusi haircare.  Visit his site at www.marcopelusi.com and sign up to receive 15% off your order!

Transcript

Sam: I had so much fun with Roberta Blevins of the Life After MLM podcast and Lula Rich documentary that I decided to keep her hanging around and ask a few more questions. I hope you enjoy part two as much as I do. Stay tuned for Meant for Moxie. So the first question is what are because I want to give fair time to this. Do you feel, aside from the fact that it's turned into this really cool other career for you? Okay, let's put that aside because that's not necessarily a positive. Were there positives? Are there things that you learned or had access to that you truly don't have a bad taste in your mouth about? That you were like, this part was good. And I took this with me because I think some of the people who are listening, who are kind of on the fence, I think they're going to need to hear like, yeah, there is some good. Not everything is terrible. So what were some of the things that you think were good?

Roberta: Absolutely. And this is actually a question that I ask every single guest on my show. We do a rapid fire at the end and I ask five questions. And the last question is always, what is your positive takeaway from your time in your Colt Scam, MLM, whatever. Because obviously there was something good there that kept me there for 18 months.

Sam: Right?

Roberta: There was something that was good. I met incredible people who I am still friends with to this day. Incredible people who we all sort of thought at the same time and we were all sort of having each other's backs and going, what is going on? I learned that I am a lot stronger than I thought it was and that I could go through a lot more than I ever thought I could. That was probably the biggest takeaway that I could go through abuse and being gas lit and being told all of these things and that I could just keep going and have it not really affect me permanently and knowing how strong I was. I've been through hard stuff and this was as hard, if not harder than going through my father dying. The same sort of leaving MLM was that same sort of that grief, that process. And so it was very, very hard. And in those moments I learned I was a lot stronger and a lot more brave than I ever thought I would be. I didn't think I'd ever speak to the media. I didn't think I'd ever do like a documentary. I never ever thought any of this would ever happen. And so yeah, just being more brave. And this came with after and having the podcast and the success that I've had. The thing that I now have as a new positive takeaway is I've begun to really realize and understand my own worth and what my time is worth and what my experience is worth to not only me, but people. That I work with and the things that I choose to spend my time and energy on and the people that I choose to allow into my circle. My circle is a lot tighter now. I'm less trusting, but not in a bad way, just in a more skeptical way. Just like, okay, yeah, no, okay, I'm going to look through the people before opening the door kind of thing. And I find all of this to be positive, especially with this new movement of women just sort of taking back our power and being like, no, I am worth more than that. What the hell? So MLM helped me see that, especially looking at those numbers and all of what I did and all of what I learned, because I learned how to use different programs and I learned how to promote myself in different ways. I learned how to use hashtags and work social media in different ways. And those are all really great positives, too. And then also in learning those things within MLM, I learned what not to do in real life. Like, that's spammy. We don't do that. We don't do that. We don't just randomly mass, like and follow people. That's spammy and weird, right? But we do follow and, like, authentically and we create relationships. And so there was a lot of that sort of stuff that I just by doing the wrong thing, I learned how to do the right thing on the opposite end. Yeah, just a lot of self reflection and awareness.

Sam: My my list would be really similar to that because, again, I did not I wouldn't have done it from 2004 until 2018. I mean, clearly there was something good about it with a couple of different I think that there are some great learning opportunities.

Roberta: I would also say that the love bombing, when you're in it and you're getting it, is really good. And that's another reason why you stay, right? The presence, the recognition, being asked to be on Webinars, being asked to do company wide trainings, or to speak at events or to host your own events. Like, those were all things that happened to me along the way. Being gifted trips and experiences and things, and being like, oh, you can have a free ticket. Oh, you can come as my guest, or, oh, you want to just be upfront for Katy Perry? Well, here you go, here's a floor ticket. No problem. Like, that sort of things like, yeah, it was all there, too.

Sam: Yeah. You learn what motivates you, and I think that the experiences can reveal your bigger purpose, and so that can always be a good takeaway, too. I learned that I really like working one to one with people and helping them find those brave moments and those confident moments. And so it doesn't have to be about selling my product and getting them to sell my product. It's what is your goal? What is it you want to do and how can I help you make that happen? Instead of you need to do more of this so that I make more money. Because.

Roberta: 20 years ago, a little over 20 years ago, I became a hairstylist because I wanted to make women feel beautiful and confident and validate them, right? And however they wanted to look, however they wanted to be, whatever color, shape, whatever their hair wanted to be, I was like, yeah, let's do that. No judgment. I'm like, I wouldn't do that, but if that's what you want. And just really to make women happy and to validate them and to make them feel confident. And that was something that made me feel so good, watching people walk out the door, being like, I look amazing, and booking the next appointment and seeing them again and creating these relationships, that was so amazing. And that's that one on one, right? And me being behind them and talking to them through this mirror and basically doing a two hour interview every single time I do their hair and talking to them. And then so when I joined Lula Roe, for me, I was like, yes, I can help more women feel beautiful and confident by selling these clothes that they really like and I can reach the whole world as opposed to just this little radius that can fit into my chair, right? This maybe 50 miles radius or so. Now I've got the entire country and I can sell these clothing and make people feel good and validate them and give them confidence there. And then I started my podcast, which is now global, and I am now reaching people in other countries when I'm talking to who are saying, thank you for validating me. Thank you for making me realize I'm stronger and braver than I thought it was. And thank you for giving me a platform to tell my story to somebody who understands it. And so it's just that same feeling of just wanting to help women and men and whoever, everybody, really just people to help people feel more validated, strong, brave, confident, and beautiful that's always been for my whole life. And so it's very wonderful that I'm able to do that now and to meet such incredible people with such amazing stories and connect with them. I talk to people in other countries. I would have never known them. I've never been able to meet this person ever. And we connect over zoom and we share something in common where we're able to express our vulnerabilities and our traumas and laugh about it and make jokes, make these dark jokes and be like, I get it. And they're like, yeah, no, that was funny. No, I know. I went through a cult. I get it. Dark humor. I'm telling you guys, colt survivors have like, the sickest sense of humor I've ever of anybody I've ever met.

Sam: I think you have to.

Roberta: I say all the time, if we don't laugh, we cry and cry. So it's more fun to laugh anyway.

Sam: Absolutely.

Roberta: As long as you're ready to laugh.

Sam: Yes, exactly. All right, so final question. Give me a list of five things that if there is someone who's been listening to this today, and he or she is like, this feels weird. So what do you think are the five things that are, like, massive red flags and maybe reach out to an organization and find out, like, if they should look a little further and I need to get out of this and whatever.

Roberta: Yeah. So I'm going to sort of go to the Bite model, and I want to say if you're unfamiliar with Dr. Steven hasn't, you should definitely check him out on social media. He's cult expert, and he designed something called the Bite model, which is sort of this checklist of ways that you might be controlled in a high demand group. So we're just going to call cults high demand groups. They can be one on one. They can be big, they can be organizational, they can be friend groups, whatever. So any sort of high demand group that you could be in, there's four ways that you're controlled. So bite stands for behavior. Wait, I'm sorry. Yeah, I haven't talked about the bike model in a while. Wow. Behavior stands for behavior, information, thought and emotion. So ways that they'll control your behavior, ways that they control the information that you receive, ways that they control the thoughts that you have and the emotions that you have. And it's a checklist, right? If you identify with a few under each, you might want to go a little deeper and ask a couple more questions. So that's the first thing I would say. Just go see how many of those red flags you can check off. And sometimes they'll be a little, like, really, like, stark, and you're like, Whoa. And you're just like, Yikes. That's kind of harsh. My MLM isn't concerned about my sex life and who I'm having sex with. But then two or three days later, you might go, wait a second. You know what? They were super concerned about the guy who was dating, whether or not it was serious, whether he was going to be all in with my business, whether or not he was a good fit for me. And so then you're like, maybe they do care about my sex life. So some of them might be a little harsh when you first see them, but then you'll find these examples. Another example is time manipulation and not being able to sleep. And you're just like, they didn't control when I slept. But then you think back and you go, wait a second. I was on zoom calls for, like, 02:00 A.m. Sometimes, and they knew I had to be up at 06:00 A.m. To go to my real job. And so, again, that is time manipulation and that is them depriving you of sleep. And so again, some of those things on that checklist, because they're very clinical, might not connect with you immediately, but they may connect with you a couple of days later. So I would say go down that list and just sort of check off a screenshot. And then you can highlight the ones I would say highlight the ones that are definite with like yellow or green for go and then maybe some that are like kind of and I'm not sure as yellow and then ones that are maybe not at all as red or whatever color coding you want to do so that you can then look at that list and go, oh, there's a lot of concerning things here. Again, know your vulnerabilities, be very aware of what the red flags are going to be. People offering opportunities, a side hustle, a way to make extra income from the comfort of your home, from your phone, in the pockets of your time, in your free time minutes. Those sort of things are going to be very red flaggy. People messaging you that you don't know, telling you that you are amazing, that they've been watching you for a long time, and that they think you'd be perfect for what they do, especially if you don't really post any of that kind of stuff on your feet. That would give them the ability to think that you'd be really great at what they do. And then anybody offering an opportunity that's not going to be fully transparent and upfront about what it is. Right? When you say, well, what is it? And they say, Well, I'm going to message you, you don't need to take it into a message. They can message you and then you can bring it right back to the comments and say, thank you for the message, that this is proven, I'm uninterested.

Sam: Right?

Roberta: Because they want to get you in that message, because they want to get you alone. They don't want anybody else to see the conversation, to throw a comment that's like, hey, this is a pyramid scheme, this is a scam. Warn you at all. They want complete control over the conversation. They want complete control over your information, what you're going to receive. They're going to give you the links and the videos to watch. They're going to tell you not to Google it because there's a lot of haters out there or there's a lot of bad press, but the company is under new management now. That's another thing they like to do. They do that often, especially after there's a scandal. The MLM Prepaid Legal used to be called Prepaid Legal until Travis Alexander, who was a top rep, was murdered by one of their other reps, Jody Arias. And so they changed the name of Prepaid Legal to Legal Shield.

Sam: Wait like the Jody arius.

Roberta: Yeah, the Jody Arius used to be a rep for pre paid legal, and she killed her ex boyfriend. Slash upline Travis. Alexander, right.

Sam: Yeah.

Roberta: Yeah. He was supposed to be on, like, the the pre paid legal, like, vacation.

Sam: Trip, and she didn't realize that was kind of wrapped up in this. Oh, my God.

Roberta: Yeah, right. Again, they changed their names. They changed their CEOs, they changed their product. They changed their packaging. And you have to think that there's a reason that a company is continuously changing things. They're changing their comp plan. They're changing their income disclosure, whatever it is, the information that they're changing. Why? Why are they changing it? And then also, they're changing this information so much, but they're not updating their financial information at all. It's still old information. And for me, that's another red flag. If you don't have an income disclosure statement or you haven't updated your income disclosure statement in probably the last two years, if it's still, like, 2019, if it's still 18 of the they haven't updated it in two years.

Sam: Yeah.

Roberta: Red flag.

Sam: Okay.

Roberta: Red flag. Because the numbers aren't better.

Sam: Yeah.

Roberta: Right. If their last income disclosure was, like, 2011 oh, yeah, the numbers aren't better because if they were, they would produce them.

Sam: Correct.

Roberta: So you can't find an income disclosure statement that is a massive red flag. And here's the other thing. That's a red flag. Even if you do find an income disclosure statement, there is no law in the Business Opportunity Rule, which was literally created for MLMs. There is no law that says they have to have an income disclosure statement. Somehow, they were able to get that rule out of that. And so the ones that they put out, because they don't have to, are 100% curated by them. So they give you the information they want you to see. There is nothing that is required of them to post, so they don't have to put anything. And so what they're showing you are the numbers they want you to see, as opposed to maybe what is actually happening. So, again, self regulation and just understanding that the main competency of MLM is lying in deception. Because without lying in deception, this scam doesn't work mathematically. It has been disproven. You get five people to add five people to add five people, and after 13 successful levels, you run out of people on Earth. So, exponentially, it is mathematically impossible for everyone to be successful and join forever, infinitely. It's just mathematically impossible. Up to 13 levels were done. Like, the end, moving on. And so the core competency of that is deception. And being like, that's not true. They're not pyramid schemes. Pyramid schemes are legal. If we were a pyramid scheme, we'd be shut down. It's like, okay, well, red tape takes a little bit longer than, oh, your pyramid scheme shut down. Like, it takes longer. And pyramid schemes have a lot of money because you give them all your money, and so they can Herbalize be like, oh, well, here's several million dollars, we'll just make this go away, no problem. And they continue to operate as a scam because they got to their little slap on the wrist and their little fine. That is nothing for a billion dollar industry.

Sam: I think a lot of people don't report it too, because they're just embarrassed. Like they step away and they're like, I was totally bamboozled and I'm embarrassed. And they tell their friends, I just decided to step away and story.

Roberta: Because they train us that too. Right?

Sam: Yeah.

Roberta: But if it didn't work, because it's so easy and anybody can do it, that if it didn't work, it's obviously your fault.

Sam: Your fault. Yeah.

Roberta: So you're the loser and the failure. I wouldn't tell anybody that you're a loser and a failure. I would just bury it and move on. Exactly. Come on my podcast, I've got people that will email me and they say, I left my MLM 20 years ago and I held this dark secret for 20 years. I thought I was the bad guy. And then I heard your podcast and oh my God, thank you. Because for 20 years I have held this guilt that I harmed my family and I did this. And it's a dark cloud that hangs off my head and I now know that I'm just another cog in the machine and I was just another victim of this scam that's legal by the government, protects it.

Sam: Yeah, exactly.

Roberta: So, yeah, you know, I mean, even today what? I was recognized when someone, the other person was like, what? And I said, oh, yeah, a pyramid scheme. And he goes, I was part of a pyramid scheme. And he started telling me about he was involved with Vema and I was like, everybody has an MLS story and it's just wilded. So, yeah, it should not be as stigmatized as it is because we all have it, but it's another social justice movement. I don't really like to use that term so much, but it's another social justice movement that is like, we have been wronged and we're not going to take it anymore. We have been hurt and we're going to talk about it now. That's where it's going and that's how it is. And more people are coming forward and saying, yeah, I got scammed too. I think that's my story.

Sam: I think the work that you're doing is great. This has been so fun. I'm looking forward to being on yours tomorrow.

Roberta: I know. I'm so excited to talk to you.

Sam: And I would like to link book resources, websites for some of the experts that you talked about, for people to take a look at. And thank you so much.

Roberta: Absolutely, yeah. I mean, there are so many people and the other thing with the anti MLM community and the content creators and advocates is there are so many different personalities, personality types and people that talk about specific kinds of companies or people that talk about just one or two specific companies. And so there are so many different people to follow. If you don't connect with one person, it's okay. You might be like, she's kind of a lot. There are people that are less, and I can help you find them. There are so many different personalities in this movement that if you need help connecting with somebody, there are so many. And we are growing every day, and we're just happy to have you and to hear your story and to help you heal.

Sam: That's great. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Roberta: You are so welcome.

Sam: Stronger Hair with Better Shine I've been using Marco Pelosi hair care products for several years now, and I have to tell you, my hair has never felt better. I've colored my hair since I was 18 years old, and all the changes my body has been through since then made for a not ideal hair situation. I ended up cutting my hair really short a few years ago in hopes of a reset of the damage I had from heat styling and color. Marco's products have a wonderful collagen to them that strengthens the hair and leaves it better able to handle what I put my hair through on a daily basis. It's soft and shiny, it smells great, and the products feel really lux. It has an added benefit of holding my hair color longer, which anyone who's used red dye knows it doesn't like to stick around. My hair is honestly in better condition than it was 25 years ago. You should visit Marcopalusi.com. That's Marco Pelusi.com to sign up and receive 15% off your first order. A hearty thank you to Roberta Blevins for joining me on this podcast. I want to apologize to the community out there for the delay in getting you this bonus episode. I had some technical issues, and I am glad to be back at it. Today's episode was sponsored by Marco Pelosi Haircare. Make sure you stop by his website to get your 15% off. Meant for Moxie is the companion podcast to Moximama by Sam Ditka. More information can be found at www maximamatv. Meant for moxie is produced by Timothy Ditka. The music the energy is courtesy of Abhishe Music and can be found on itunes.