North Dakota's No Wrong Door Gateway with Corey Mock

For our 150th episode, Alex and Amy are joined by North Dakota state CIO Corey Mock. We discuss how Corey's unique background as a young state legislator led him to the role of state CIO, how ND worked with different agencies to established the ND Gateway for businesses to have a more seamless government experience, what is on the horizon and how he survives the apparently brutal ND winters!

Transcript

Speaker: 0:05

Hi, and welcome to Nasio Voices, where we talk all things state IT. I'm Amy Glasscock in Lexington, Kentucky.

Alex Whitaker: 0:11

And I'm Alex Putticker in Washington, D.C. Today we're talking with North Dakota State CEO Corey Mock about his role and the state's No Wrong Door initiative.

Speaker: 0:18

Can't wait to hear from Corey, but we're also celebrating our 150th episode today, and we wanted to acknowledge that as well. You never know how these hair brained ideas are gonna go, but here we are, still slowly plugging away on episodes after almost six years. So let's get into it. Corey, welcome to Nat SEO Voices, and thanks so much for joining us.

Corey Mock: 0:37

It's great to be here, guys.

Speaker: 0:38

Yes, absolutely. All right, Corey. So you have a bit of a unique path into technology at the state government level. Can you share what led you to the role of CIO for North Dakota?

Corey Mock: 0:50

Yeah, so I had uh I come to this position after spending what you have nearly a generation in elected office. I was in the North Dakota House of Representatives for 16 years, was elected at the age of 23 by being at the time the youngest serving. I was the de facto subject matter expert on all things technology, especially when you consider the institution itself is not known for sending a lot of younger uh people uh to the body. So it over the last 16 years, I had kind of cut my teeth on uh on a lot of policy issues, but a lot of it was focused on uh IT technology. And I had a little bit of a background in high school, but uh nothing as a I would never consider myself to be truly technical. But yeah, 16 years in the legislature, a lot of experience there working on the budget, working on IT. I I love politics. Uh I truly adore it. I have almost no patience for partisanship. And that is something that uh led me to not want to run for re-election. It was a difficult decision. Uh, I should say, I don't know that I would say not wanting to run. It was I was very torn, but I didn't run for re-election in 2024. Was making a mental transition to other ways of giving back and serving. I was in Bismarck, uh the capital city in mid-November after the election, turning in my laptop and and essentially preparing to say my goodbyes when you know my friend, former legislative colleague, and our governor-elect, Kelly Armstrong, called me up. Uh, we met up that evening, and and uh I choose to believe that a dozen people or so said no before he got to asking me. But uh he you know, we had a candid conversation and he he he he was pretty blunt. He said, I want you to run my IT department. And uh I was floored, I was honored, I was humbled. Uh, you know, I tried to come up with every possible reason to say no, and then after a couple of days and some some soul searching, uh realized that no, this this is probably that once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that you'd be foolish to turn down. It checks all of my boxes, it scratches a lot of itches, it's it aligns with my passion, uh, and it's it's been an incredible journey ever since.

Speaker: 3:08

That sounds perfect. I think as any state CIO will tell you, your job in politics is not over, but it it is nonpartisan. So it is. Yeah, yeah.

Corey Mock: 3:16

That is a a big draw to it because uh the the issues that I enjoyed working on the most were the the least partisan. Yeah, it was problem solving, it was working with people, it was uh it was you know finding creative solutions to nagging problems that could really change the direction of an individual person's life. Yeah, and and doing it in ways that it may not always be obvious. It's it's the little things that can mean so much. So this has been great. I certainly can't say enough about the amazing people that I get to work with. Kelly wanted someone with political and budget experience, and he said, I know you're gonna have amazing people that know the tech. I don't need you to know the tech, I need you to know everything else. And it's been uh very empowering, uh incredibly uplifting, and it's you know, truly one of the best decisions I think I've uh I've ever made in my life.

Alex Whitaker: 4:03

Awesome. Yeah. That's awesome. Well, that's that's very cool. I I think it just reminds me that one thing that um Doug Robinson, our executive director, says that CO is a it's a people and process job. You know, it's technology is important, but it people and process is key as well. So um, all right. So you came into this role with a lot of awareness and visibility, I think, into kind of what North Dakotans needed, what the what the technology challenges were. So would love to know what were your top priorities for how technology could improve uh life for your citizens? And then how would you say those have evolved in the months since you took the role?

Corey Mock: 4:35

Yeah, it's so when I came in December 15th of 2024, um, you know, my my priority was you know rebuild trust between IT and the agencies that we serve. We are a centralized IT department. I consider us our Office of Management and Budget, which does our fiscal arm, and then the governor's office, whether it was always this way or it's it's evolved into this, we've become the triumvirate of support agencies. Uh the three of us are the core central services of all state executive government functions in North Dakota. And IT has become a centralized provider of all IT-related services for most agencies, uh, including state and local, uh, the local side with cybersecurity and network access. Uh so over the last eight years, you know, we had a governor whose background was not politics, was not government, his was technology. He was uh uh former governor Doug Bergum, now Secretary of Interior. Uh he was highly tech focused. It was uh you know a visionary governor who believed in the role of technology in uh achieving those uh stretch goals that an agency may have, wanting to improve the service, deliver services, and and uh treat government as uh kind of as a business. You know, eight years with that mindset, it was challenged assumptions, it put people in a in a position to rethink the purpose of their agency and their government and our government. A lot of people thought it was exciting, but admittedly, change is hard. Change can be taxing, it's it tests patience. And and uh I know that there was a lot of agencies that after a while you you recognize that in this case, technology was frequently a priority. And and and that whether it's true or not, if it's implied, if it's perceived, at some point you sort of feel like you're you might be playing second fiddle to the governor's favorite. And in this case, you know, there's a little bit of the Marsha Jan Brady effect here where you know it's you know, Marsha was, you know, we're the Marsha of the family, and everyone else is the Jan Brady. And at some point you just get tired of Marsha getting everything, you know, being the favorite, being the one that everyone wants to talk about. So I think there was a little bit of technology fatigue that was starting to set in with agencies. Great people wanting to do an amazing job and deliver services, yeah, whether it was optional or not to go along with the governor's vision. I think people felt like they may have had to go along with changes that they weren't quite ready for. So when I came in, there's a lot of backstory to you know, really my purpose was to come in, my my vision, come in, re-establish those relationships, rebuild that trust, listen to the uh agencies that we serve. You know, we are internal service. I'm not here to drive the boat. I'm here to help others succeed. We are the sidekick to their superhero journey. So it was a lot of listening, uh, understanding, finding out how we can deliver the services that they need to be successful. And it was a very humbling opportunity to learn to meet people that I've already known because of my past experience, but to come to them with a different hat, a different set of ideas, a different perspective. I was able to ask different probing questions because I was familiar with their budget situation and some of the challenges that they may be facing. So over the last nine, 10 months, it's evolved slightly in, you know, I'm still bringing that focus to the agencies, but we're gradually moving from that triage mentality of solving the problems that were caused by past decisions and getting us to think with a little bit more of a forward focus. Instead of focusing so much, and we have to do it, but we're so focused on resolving, remediating our tech debt. How do we stop putting more and more on the credit card? So right now we're we're working down that balance. We've got to stop digging the hole with the other hand. I mean, we've got to get ourselves to a point where we're making responsible decisions that don't lead to future tech debt because it's the easy, it's the expedient thing to do today. And that's been a big thing. It's wanting to bring agencies along as partners, help them be the drivers of the change, and how can IT be the enabler of the things that they need to get done?

Alex Whitaker: 9:06

Yeah, Corey, that's really fascinating. I I got to become familiar with Governor Bergham's administration when I was working at the National Governors Association. And so, of course, given his background and everything, you know, he was the go-to person to talk about with technology. So, but to hear this perspective that, you know, that could create a little culture and organizational fatigue, as well-intentioned as it is, is is a really interesting thing to kind of explore. So thanks, thanks for sharing that. I I if I I hope to I'd love to hear more about that because I think there are a lot of states that could probably relate with that as well. So But so, you know, North Dakota recently launched the North Dakota Gateway Portal for Business. So I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about how that fits into the broader no-wrong door vision, which is really interesting, and maybe give a little description of what that philosophy means for residents and and business owners actually in practice.

Corey Mock: 9:52

Yeah, several years ago, you know, I recall sitting on appropriations and we were visiting with different agencies. One of the things in my prior life worked with a lot of communities and businesses in the economic development world, a growing frustration from your chambers of commerce, your centers for excellence, your entrepreneurial communities was the frustration of what it takes to just do basic things with the government. Just turning in your annual reports, filing your taxes, having to have five or six different logins because you've got to submit different reports to different agencies. It's all the same thing. It's all going to the state of North Dakota, but it's going to a different agency within the state of North Dakota. You have businesses, they don't, they don't want to be experts in bureaucracy and paperwork. They want to be experts in their business. They want to focus on that. And it was we'll call it a minor inconvenience. It was a nagging challenge that a lot of businesses were getting frustrated with. And you would hear it frequently. How can you make this so that I don't have to spend as much time doing this? Or having, you get four or five different passwords so that I can file my taxes and do my Secretary of State annual report, uh, my working's comp, all of this. When uh when you know Governor Bergam and the uh NDIT came forward with a few agencies saying, we want to bring this together under one portal, you know, where you just go in, the Amazon model, if you will, of going into one place to buy all of your things, to do it one storefront that gives you access to all of the little entities within. Um there was some enthusiasm met by the legislature, and there was uh a great opportunity for us to do what a lot of states are doing, and that's creating that that gateway, that portal, that first stop, one-stop operation for civic services. You know, North Dakota, like every other state government, I choose to believe, is you know we we were built on this mentality of silos. I envision a what today would be a large metropolitan area, but 100, 150 years ago was a collection of small towns all scattered briefly around one slightly larger city. And over time, as the populations of those cities grew, they just blended into each other to the point where you no longer can easily tell where one ends and the other begins. And if you are in the city, you probably recognize that Monroe Street is the is the boundary between your city and the other city. But if you're just a person walking on the road, walking on down the sidewalk, you have no idea. And if you know, imagine someone wanting to mail a letter. They don't care which post office stamps the envelope. They just want it delivered. But if you are bound by your zip code and those rules, those arbitrary rules of who gets to do what, you create that unintentional friction that makes it difficult for people to do really basic things. So when you consider a state government, you've got your core agencies that now you, you know, once upon a time, each had a specific and unique function. But as we've evolved and as the need for different services have come forward, you create more modern agencies, try to reconcile them with your legacy agencies, you know, think your tax, your auditor, your insurance. And then you get some of that mission creep. There's blending of who does what. And at some point it just becomes so convoluted that you just you you lose track of who does what, for whom, and when. And this is a bigger conversation that we've got to tackle in state government. A lot of the states, uh, federal government, they've been doing what you know, call it the Doge Committee or government efficiencies. But taking that step back, reflecting on what it is that you're doing, how you're delivering those services, and is it the most effective and efficient way of doing it? From an IT perspective, that's that's kind of how we need to approach this is how can we help identify that denominator of all of the things that we do and then improve that access to those services so that you don't end up with half a dozen different workforce initiatives and people lose track of where you need to go for what. And the gateway was that that was that pilot into this. It's it's not, we hadn't quite taken that full step back. It was that layer over top of your core business agencies, so that when someone has a question, they can go to one place and still have all of that information. They can turn in their paperwork, the the information goes from one form to another without having to duplicate their entry. And then you still, but you still maintain that access from the individual agency. So if you know that the Secretary of State's office is where you go for your business registration, your trade names, your annual reports, you can still go there. But you'll also have the ability from within to then pivot and do your taxes and do your workmen's comp and your job service. So that was the vision, and it's it's what we're still uh building towards because we know that there's a great opportunity for us to bring a lot of these services together under one umbrella.

Alex Whitaker: 15:06

Awesome. Thank you.

Amy Glasscock: 15:07

Yeah. Do you guys call it Indy Gateway or North Dakota Gateway?

Corey Mock: 15:11

So right now, uh it's we've we've referred to it. It's Indy Gateway. It's uh the first iteration we kind of labeled it as the business gateway. Uh and then the next iteration, we've over the years it's been labeled the citizen gateway. Uh admittedly, I don't know that that's what it's going to be called uh down the road. It may, but yeah, you know, I also see the opportunity as we start to add services, add functionality, improve the back end so that the public employees that are relying on that service on those tools, their lives are a lot easier, that the information just is there. It shares across agencies. I think as we bring them together and start to vision for what this really can look like, modeling off of a lot of other states that have done great things, regrettably need to give credit to the the other Dakota. Good humor. Oh boy. South Dakota is actually a really good partner. I, you know, you got to have that sibling rivalry. But South Dakota has done a really good job at building out their gateway, their portal. And you know, following their journey, mapping it, looking at how it's uh changed, how citizens interact with their government, you know, bringing agencies in to play with that, to see how their counterparts in other states have have uh changed that that entryway, giving them an opportunity to play with the name and uh and maybe uh create a creative North Dakota spin on what we call it once we really hit that uh second and third phase of this of this development.

Speaker: 16:37

Gotcha. All right. Well, speaking of the agencies, how did you bring the agencies together in this first phase for a common vision? And what has that collaboration looked like behind the scenes?

Corey Mock: 16:49

I think like any major project, it usually requires someone with a big personality and and maybe uh uh a little clout to uh voluntel a few people to sit in the room, come around the table. Uh I think with a lot of it is the partners in this first iteration recognized the importance of making it easier. But also going back to that silo or the uh metropolitan city urban sprawl example, saying that you need to create a better map system to navigate all of your city boundaries is a great idea when you're not directly involved in that city function. It can be interpreted as uh almost as a slight or as an insult to one of those cities in this case, that they're not doing a good enough job at sharing information about what the other cities do. You know, that your your city map, your regional map that you've your city make isn't good enough. It creates that there's a little implied criticism by saying that we have to do something different or do it better because what we're currently doing isn't good enough. And then in anything, whether you you realize it or not, there's a lot of pride in the work that you've done over the years. No one has ever sought out to create a website or an application with the intention of making life more complicated for someone else. You always do it with good intentions. And and when you're really embedded into that function, it's really hard to hear the opportunities for improvement and not hear it as a failure of what has been done before. And and I say that, and I'm you know, this is where my life in politics I've gotten pretty good at being more blunt than I probably should. But that's one of those challenges that we're we're having to unwind is we brought the core players together because it needed to be done. And the governor was the one taking the lead. You had a big personality with a lot of support. The business community was was unequivocal in their support for wanting to see some improvements, but in grabbing people and bringing them to the table, you may have bruised a few elbows, um, in this case, bruised a few egos. And you know, that's where that politics of this comes in. You know, everyone there, well-intentioned, and they all provide phenomenal services to people. I mean, North Dakota is one of the best places in the country to do business for a reason. That didn't happen by accident. And we've got half a dozen core business agencies that do an exceptional job at meeting the needs of the people they serve. But in this, we had three independent constitutional offices, elected statewide, technically independent, and then three other cabinet-level positions with totally different constituencies. One is a federally funded job service, the other is a special funded uh monopolistic workmen's comp. It's funded through business premiums that every business in North Dakota has to do business with. And the third is our general funded uh Department of Commerce. So, really some different personalities coming together. We had to bring them in, try to get them to work with us at different times, knowing that they have their own challenges, their own schedules, their own priorities that might not be exactly this. It worked. It was not without some challenges and frustrations. And now my hope and plan as we bring these people together is you know, learning from this success, hearing those stories of businesses that are doing, you know, that are interacting with these applications, and helping them as the individual, as the agencies, help them envision what this can look like as it as it matures. And yeah, it like anything, if it was, if it was easy, it would have been done by now. And really the journey is the destination. You do it for the challenge. That's what makes it exciting because uh no two days are ever the same, and you're always uh you're eager to see what the next opportunity brings. So great support, phenomenal partnership. I think it speaks a lot to that North Dakota, nice North Dakota polite nature, well-intentioned uh civil servants that have uh a vision for doing a better job for the people, for the neighbors in their community.

Speaker: 21:15

Yeah. Yeah, I know it can be hard. Uh that change management is such a big part of the role, and folks, folks don't always like change. So the portal will, as I understand it, eventually expand into other areas for business, and it sounds like beyond business as well. But what are some of the next capabilities or services that you're most excited to add in future phases? And what impact do you expect them to have for businesses in North Dakota?

Corey Mock: 21:39

So as we get citizen functions in there, right now it's it's a lot of business focus items. I think as this matures and develops, we've been implementing more of our low-code no-code platform. Um, you know, it was all built on ServiceNow. How do we modernize those other applications as we are deprecating old applications, you know, uh resolving some of our tech debt. How do we bring those functions into our low-code no-code platform? There wasn't funding earmarked for the next phase directly. However, we backed into the funding by taking on an initiative to improve to address some inefficiencies. And in that was our onboarding, offboarding of public employees. And while North Dakota might be the 48th largest state in terms of population, you know, we are a very large employer, you know, thousands of public employees, you've got regular turnover. Well, it's pretty easy with the central IT that if you don't have an automated way of turning out uh licenses and functions on and off, it's easy to lose track of who has what licenses. And then everything is getting billed. Before you know it, you run into the issue of your auto pay, multiple subscriptions. You find yourself paying for things that you know you signed up for three years ago that you haven't logged into in the last 18 months. Uh and that's we recognize that there's some of those inefficiencies by having turnover employees moving across agencies. Some of those licenses don't get deactivated. Uh, there's there's delays in getting people subscribed to different to different tools. So, a major initiative this biennium is to automate some of our onboarding-offboarding functionality. To your average North Dakotan, they won't notice a thing because most people don't interact with those functions. To an agency, it could save hundreds of thousands of dollars over the course of two years. That is the difference between having people ready on day one and not having to pay for someone after they've retired. That's your hope. Without that efficiency, you're struggling to find the funds to deliver the next phase of grants because you're burning through your capital faster than you had anticipated, and you don't understand where the leak is. So we really see an opportunity there. It's it's a major initiative along with some of our other tech debt plans. One of the initiatives that the governor has come in with six broad initiatives, and with this onboarding, offboarding, one thing that we've we've recognized as we bring these functions together is the importance of data. And we are very early in our data maturity. We started the work identifying data, doing data literacy, data training, data classification. It's easy to forget how important that is. And AI has been a phenomenal reminder of this because everyone wants to use the next tool, the next feature of AI. But AI doesn't, it's meaningless unless the data behind it is trustworthy. And we've had agencies coming forward, we're talking about some of the initiatives, how do we measure success? People that are recognizing that we've got more and more work to do with our data maturity, data identification, data classification, and data sharing. And I'm I'm blessed to have a person on our team, our chief data officer. She is uh I mean my challenge to you is to find uh someone. If you if you find someone who loves you half as much as Kim Weiss loves data, your life will never, you'll never be wanting. Your life will, you will have checked all of the boxes, uh, the American dream, uh, the epitome of happiness, because her passion for data is palpable. Uh, and she's been taking a leading role in the governor's initiatives, in our subcabinets, and really bringing data to the conversation. How can we improve our data strategy so that all of these things that we're working on recreation, workforce, housing, government efficiency, tribal relations, all of that is uh is a success, not just in how we feel about it, but quantitatively, that we can measure that growth and success and then make smart decisions in our planning going forward.

Alex Whitaker: 26:05

Awesome. Well, that's that's really fascinating. I think all of it. So at this point, we have covered uh the amazing work you're doing with North Dakota Gateway and a lot of the other initiatives you have in the state. Any other things you want to cover or any uh words of wisdom you'd like to impart to any of our listeners? We'd love to love to hear any final thoughts you've got.

Corey Mock: 26:22

Sure. Well, uh I appreciate it and uh good humor and tolerance, the ramblings of a of a recovering politician.

Alex Whitaker: 26:29

Not at all. We'd love to hear it.

Corey Mock: 26:31

I will say we've got you know a couple other things that I'm I'm really proud we're working on. It's funny. I came into the legislature in 2008, and I'm I'm a you know student of history, and I I love digging into the historical record, and and I was reading minutes from some of my very first committee meetings as a 23-year-old freshman legislator serving on the IT committee, and we had conversations then about the mainframe. And you know, what are we going to do to migrate off of the mainframe and different applications? That was uh that was 17 years ago uh that we were having those discussions. I'm happy to report that we are we are planning a retirement party for our mainframe on June 30th, 2029. Everyone is invited. Uh, we'll do it office space style, if you can find anything uh you know that we can bring out into a field and and beat with our favorite tool and our favorite implements. Uh it has been like anything when you're modernizing your applications and deprecating uh some of those larger systems. It's a lot of work, it's a lot of passion. We are gradually making progress, but that mainframe migration initiative is you know we're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. It's been a long road. Uh, a lot of partners, I said a lot of anxiety. Very happy to report that we are uh on the path to accomplishing this task within the next uh uh three-ish years. The data strategy and data hub, anyone who's a homeowner knows that you know the most important part of your house is your foundation. And it's also the one part that is very difficult and expensive to maintain, and it adds virtually no value if you if you put all the work into it because it's it's just you expect it, you need it. It's not adding a whole new fancy, flashy bedroom. So that data emphasis is big. It's it is the foundation that all of our future success will have to be built on. We're still working on uh some cybersecurity initiatives. We're very well positioned, but we're beginning to treat cybersecurity more and more as an element of public safety uh and looking at it as an as an ongoing investment, not a one and done expenditure. Uh I think a lot of agencies, a lot of states are struggling and wrestling with their ADA accessibility. We are late to the game on this. We've uh we've been dabbling with it, but uh we're now we've got a lot of partners that are coming to the table with with their concerns, but more importantly, with their opportunities for improvement. And that's been guiding a lot of our conversations. Uh yeah, so there's there's a lot of excitement, a lot of things going on. And the true policy nerd in me is excited most because I think IT is well positioned as that partner that will be in those conversations with agencies as we start uh creating those strategic plans for 2027 and beyond.

Speaker: 29:22

Awesome. Well, all right, Corey, we are we're almost out of time, but as our listeners know, we can't let you go without asking you a few questions about your life outside of work in a segment we call the lightning round. Are you ready?

Corey Mock: 29:36

I am so ready.

Speaker: 29:38

Okay. All right. Well, this time I asked Chat GPT to give me some lightning round questions that are North Dakota themed, and then we'll see if they make sense to you because I'm not sure that they all make sense to me. So all right. Question one more satisfying on a cold day? Hot dish or lefse? I'm not sure how this is pronounced. Maybe you can tell me.

Corey Mock: 29:57

Hot dish or lefsa. Lefsa is a is a A Scandinavian or Norwegian treat, uh potato based, uh call it a pancake. It's not a pancake, but uh I would say uh to that question, hot dish all day every day. Hot dish, that's your fuel. Uh leftsta, that that's your dessert for finishing your for being a part of the clean plate club. So finish your hot dish, you get some left stuff.

unknown: 30:21

Nice.

Alex Whitaker: 30:23

Nice. All right. So what is the most underrated spot in North Dakota that you'd recommend everyone visit at least once?

Corey Mock: 30:29

Well, soon we'll have the Teddy Roosevelt Presidential Library that opens next July 4th. Uh I've heard about it. But I would say those aren't the underrated. I'd say underrated watching a sunrise on the Missouri River, a summer sunrise on the Missouri River. That is one of the most beautiful views you can imagine on an open prairie with uh with a gorgeous river. I I highly recommend it.

Speaker: 30:54

All right. And final lightning round question, chat GPT was very concerned that the winters are cold. Um, says that North Dakota winters are legendary. And what is your secret for surviving or enjoying them?

Corey Mock: 31:07

Well, uh many layers of clothes, good humor, a reliable snowblower, uh, seat warmers, knowing the direction the wind is coming. I will say that the the winters are long, they're cold. It's not so much the snow as it is the wind and the temperature, being prepared, but also leaning in, uh recognizing that it is in Arizona, uh, so you know, know where you are and find a way of making it fun. For me, it's going outside with the kids and it's taking the dogs for a walk, even on the coldest of days. Uh, that if you're gonna survive the North Dakota winter, dress well, um, keep the seat warmers turned on, and uh, you know, always stand uh with the wind, never facing into it.

Speaker: 31:53

That's right.

Alex Whitaker: 31:53

Nice. All right, Corey. Well, thanks so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to talk with us for our 150th episode. We really appreciate it.

Corey Mock: 32:02

Yeah. Yes. Like I said, I I choose to believe, I'm gonna say that I've been sandbagging just so I could be a part of this milestone. And I'm honored that you humored me.

Speaker: 32:12

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we're honored to have you for our uh whatever the word is that you said.

Corey Mock: 32:18

Sesquicentennial. I know. All up nice.

Speaker: 32:21

I have heard it before, I just can't reproduce it.

Corey Mock: 32:24

I had to write it down.

Speaker: 32:26

Yeah, yeah. All right. Thanks, Corey.

Corey Mock: 32:28

We'll see you in Denver. Thanks so much. All right. Bye. Thanks, Matt.

Speaker: 32:32

Thanks again for listening to NASCIO Voices. NASCIO Voices is a production of the National Association of State Chief Information Officers or NASIO. Learn more at NASCAI.org.

Alex Whitaker: 32:42

And registration for the NASTEO Annual Conference in Denver closes October 9th. Hope to see you there.

Speaker: 32:47

We'll be back in two weeks with Emily Lane, who will be giving us an annual conference preview. Don't miss it.