NASCIO Voices
NASCIO Voices
Data Management is More Important Than Ever (And a Shifting Cloud Mindset)
Alex and Amy are joined by NASCIO's program director for enterprise architecture and governace Eric Sweden to discuss the 2025 State CIO Survey sections on data management and cloud services. We also talk Thanksgiving food!
Read the State CIO Survey here: https://www.nascio.org/resource-center/the-2024-state-cio-survey/
Hi, and welcome to Nasio Voices, where we talk all things state IT. I'm Amy Glasscock in Lexington, Kentucky.
SPEAKER_00:And I'm Alex Whitaker in Washington, D.C. Today we are continuing our conversation about the findings from the 2025 State CO Survey. And here to chat with us about both data management and cloud services is our program director for enterprise architecture and governance, Eric Sweden.
SPEAKER_02:Eric, welcome back to the podcast and thanks for taking the time to chat with us today.
SPEAKER_01:Always glad to be on the podcast with you two. Thank you so much for having me back.
SPEAKER_02:You're welcome. We're happy to have you too. All right, so we have been talking about the 2025 State CIO survey the last couple of weeks. We talked about generative AI first, and then we talked about IT accessibility and state and local collaboration with Kalia on the last podcast. So if you're just now finding this out and you want to hear those, go back and listen. And then, you know, this survey is great because we had 51 state and territorial CIOs respond this year, and that means that the data is pretty strong. I mean, we usually have pretty good response, but this year is no exception, maybe even a little bit higher than usual. So let's talk about data management first. Kind of what are your overall thoughts on data management in the survey?
SPEAKER_01:Well, as we stated in the survey, Amy, data management has been on the state CIO top 10 uh strategy priorities every year since 2016. And now with this massive uptake of various epochs of AI, data management is absolutely a cornerstone for us. So AI depends on data, and so data, data quality, data management is becoming a high priority. Uh, you know, we've addressed data management in our state CIO annual surveys ten times. In comparison, we've addressed cloud, cloud services 12 times, security 10 times, CIO business models 10 times. So data management has been highly represented in these annual surveys. So some trends we've seen, data isn't just an asset anymore. We've talked about it as a strategic asset, but it's becoming more of the engine behind service transformation. Gen AI and the various epochs of AI didn't start the data conversation, but it has absolutely accelerated it. So the challenge isn't defining governance anymore, it's sustaining it year over year. We see that in our survey. States are great at dashboards. Now we're looking at can they create a great capability for surfacing insights? So uh we're seeing early data maturity, but not in every state.
SPEAKER_00:So the survey shows that data management has risen to number four on the CO top 10 list for 2025, which is pretty huge. What's driving that change?
SPEAKER_01:Well, Alex, I think what we're seeing is data management may be moving from a strategic concept to more of an operational imperative, particularly with AI. Uh data management is at number four on the top ten for 2025. It has not been that high since 2016, but it has been on the top 10 strategy list every year starting in 2016. So the rise is most likely heavily driven by generative AI. States recognize that they can't responsibly or effectively implement AI without strong data governance, data quality, data sharing must be in place. So the 2025 survey introduces a new uh level of maturity called very mature on the maturity question this year. Uh only 4% of the states fall in that bracket, but I think it signals that we're at the beginning of a real enterprise adoption. 20% report their data governance is mature compared to 27% back in 2023 when we asked that same question. Maybe there's more critical evaluation, Alex. The challenge most states report isn't lack of vision, it's sustaining funding and implementation capacity once that initial strategy was written.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, we have certainly seen challenges in sustaining funding across the board, so I get that. But you know, despite progress, 66% of states say they're still in the beginning stages of data governance maturity. Why is it so hard to move up that curve?
SPEAKER_01:The biggest challenge isn't getting started, Alex. Most states have stood up data strategies or governance frameworks. The hard part is implementation across agencies, particularly in highly federated uh situations. Many states report maturity at the enterprise planning level, but uneven execution uh agency by agency. That's why the 2025 survey commentary reflects phrases like hit or miss or between beginning and mature, because it's variable. Also, budget cycles often support planning, but not long-term sustainment, which can stall momentum. So it's not a lack of intention, it's a gap in organizational capacity and consistent funding to drive change over time.
SPEAKER_02:So the survey does repeat a question from 2023, and I think it's always interesting to repeat questions and see how things change over the years. So it asks uh where states are using data analytics, and there were clear increases for fraud analytics and enhanced dashboards, clearly two areas with major growth. So, what do you think that tells us about where value is being created in states?
SPEAKER_01:Amy, dashboards are now used by 94% of states, up from 80% in 2023. And fraud prevention jumped to 74% from 63% in 2023. Those numbers tell us that states are putting data to work where there's a clear return. That is operational accountability, risk reduction, and service improvement. Fraud is an area where analytics produces measurable impact quickly, so it's no surprise it's become a high priority. We're also seeing growth in combining data from multiple sources. That's enabling the surfacing of correlations across multiple lines of business. Now that's over 60% from 57% in 2023, which is foundational for a whole of citizen service model many states are aiming toward.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, that was a good overview of the data side of things, but you also wrote about cloud services in the survey. So let's move over to cloud services. And this is a topic that we've covered in a total of 12 annual surveys, including this one. Cloud services is number eight on the top 10 for 2025. It was the number two ranking back in 2013, 2015, 16, 2018, and 2019. So cloud is still important and the conversation has shifted a bit. So in the 2025 survey, every respondent reports a hybrid multi-cloud environment. How different is that from what you saw in 2021 and 2023?
SPEAKER_01:Amy, it's a big shift in mindset. In 2021, we were still debating cloud first versus cloud smart. About half the states had a cloud smart strategy, and under 20% were still in the cloud first posture. So by 2023, the language had moved to hybrid as the default model, but not everyone had fully embraced the implications. Now in 2025, every state in the survey describes their environment as hybrid and multi-cloud. You see the terms like distributed hybrid and cloud marketplace showing up. That tells us cloud isn't a one-time migration project anymore. It's a continuous exercise in brokering the right mix of services across a pretty complex portfolio. These hybrid portfolios are indeed complex. We wanted to understand the motivation behind these expanding portfolios. Something unique to cloud services are the invoicing requirements. This has prompted whole efforts in managing complex terms and conditions that can be quite different from one cloud provider to another, particularly related to something called reserved instances. Reserved instances or committed use discounts or reservations, those terms are different with different cloud providers. Essentially, it's reserved capacity.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. We asked state CIOs what categories of services or functions they have migrated to the cloud. The top migration categories haven't changed much over the years, but what does the survey tell us about where states are in their cloud journey now?
SPEAKER_01:Well, the top four categories have been remarkably consistent, Alex, from 2023 to 2025. Email, calendar, collaboration platforms, service management, and project and portfolio management. These are essentially done in most states. The interesting movement is lower in the list. Let's look at those middle categories like HR and payroll, ERP, identity, security, citizen relationship management, and disaster recovery. In 2023, those were heavily in the ongoing and planned buckets. That's still true in 2025, but you see a higher completion rate. So we're squarely in the phase where states are taking on the big, complex, high-risk workloads, not just the low-hanging fruit. Security is way up from 9% done to 21%. Data management from 9% to 21%. So we know those things are getting more attention. By far, most states are moving toward employing cloud services, and it's a continuing effort. You'll see a lot of very heavy numbers in the ongoing as well as done.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, awesome. Um so mainframe as a service shows up as its own data point for the first time in the 2025 survey. What do you think that tells us about where states are headed with modernization?
SPEAKER_01:In earlier surveys, we saw mainframe listed among services in progress or planned for cloud migration, but without a lot of detail. In 2025, 42% of the states report implementing mainframe as a service. 17 say they are soon or will be completely off the mainframe. So states are making decisions about what their core transactional platforms need to look like in a hybrid cloud environment.
SPEAKER_02:Well, Eric, I know that was a lot to summarize in a short amount of time, and there's even more to see. If folks want to take a look at this survey, we'll definitely put a link in the show notes. But first, as you know, we can't let you go without a quick session of the lightning round. This one is a true, this or that lightning round fast session all about Thanksgiving. And we're gonna have five questions because it's fast. Are you ready?
SPEAKER_01:I think I'm ready. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Thanksgiving themed. Turkey or ham?
SPEAKER_00:Turkey. Alright. Mashed potatoes or stuffing, and you have to pick one forever.
SPEAKER_01:I do? Okay, well.
SPEAKER_00:Amy wrote a tough one.
SPEAKER_01:Stu uh stuffing then.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Yeah, these are not these are these are dangerous questions, Amy. You're really picking a fight with some of these.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, speaking of fight, favorite Thanksgiving dish you'd fight someone for?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I don't know. Maybe uh maybe uh fried onions over beans.
SPEAKER_02:Ooh, okay.
SPEAKER_00:Cranberry sauce, canned or homemade?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, homemade. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00:Nice.
SPEAKER_02:And then uh for dessert, pumpkin pie or pecan pie?
SPEAKER_00:Pumpkin pie all emo.
SPEAKER_02:Mm-hmm. All right.
SPEAKER_00:All right, those are good. All right, Eric. That is our time for today. I know we are going to have you back in a few weeks to talk to us about the state CO top 10 list for 2026. And we can't wait to see what it looks like.
SPEAKER_01:And I join you in that same sentiment. I'm very interested to see what happens this year. Thank you, Alex. Thank you, Andrew. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02:Thanks, Eric. Thanks again for listening to Nasio Voices. Nasio Voices is a production of the National Association of State Chief Information Officers, or NASIO. Learn more at NASIO.org.
SPEAKER_00:And we'll be back with more great state IT content soon. Until then, have a great Thanksgiving.
SPEAKER_02:Talk with you soon.