Are We Solving the Right Problems? CIO vs. Citizen Views on Accessing State Services

Alex and Amy are joined by Eyal Darmon of Accenture to talk about our recent joint report. Specifically we are talking about how citizens and CIOs view the challenges of accessing state services--where they align and where they don't. 

See the report here: https://www.nascio.org/resource-center/resources/harnessing-genai-to-elevate-the-citizen-experience/

Transcript

Amy Glasscock: 0:05

Hi, and welcome to NASCIO Voices, where we talk all things state IT. I'm Amy Glasscock in Lexington, Kentucky.

Alex Whitaker: 0:11

And I'm Alex Whitaker in Washington, D.C. Today we're joined by Eyal Darman with Accenture to discuss a joint NASCIO Accenture report released in September on scaling generative AI for citizen services.

Amy Glasscock: 0:22

In particular, we're talking about one of the most interesting findings from our joint report that has to do with the differences in the way state CIOs, citizens, and frontline workers interpret the challenges of accessing citizen services. Eyal, welcome to NASCIO Voices and thanks so much for joining us today.

Eyal Darmon: 0:37

Thank you for having me.

Amy Glasscock: 0:38

Absolutely. So we worked together on this report about scaling generative AI for citizen services, which I think is one of the most promising uses of Gen AI in state government. And today, instead of trying to cover everything in the report in a short amount of time, we wanted to dig into one part of the report that really jumped out at us. The places where CIO perceptions don't quite line up with what citizens and frontline employees say are the biggest challenges in accessing digital services. And when a state's trying to scale Gen AI, I think it matters to know what those differences are. So to start out, the data in the report shows that CIOs believe the biggest barrier for citizens is knowing where to begin. You know, we talk a lot about kind of we need to revamp the state websites for the no-wrong door thing. It's confusing. But nearly half of citizens say the process actually just takes too long. So tell us more about that and your thoughts around that finding.

Eyal Darmon: 1:37

Well, thank you. I mean, first, uh honored to be part of this report with NASCIO and Accenture. And the data is just, it's very telling about where we are in the space of AI. You know, specific to your question, the data shows a pretty starking mismatch. State CIOs overwhelmingly point to knowing where to begin as the biggest barrier. But almost 70% of CIOs chose that. Now, compared to only a third of citizens, you know, citizens are saying something different. About 50% say the real issue is that the whole process just takes way too long. And then in comparison, only about 20% of CIOs say that it takes too long. You know, what that really tells us is that citizens are not confused about what to do next. They're really just frustrated by delays, slow systems, and you know, long waits for outcomes. CIOs tend to focus on navigation and clarity, which are immensely important. But citizens really feel the drag of inefficiency much more than the complexity of the instructions. And that's exactly where Gen AI can help. If states use AI to shorten the cycle times, to automate predictable tasks, and give citizens real-time updates, just like we have in some of our private life engagement with organizations, they'll really help to address the pain points citizens actually talk about the most.

Amy Glasscock: 3:05

Yeah, that's great. Good point.

Alex Whitaker: 3:07

Yeah. So if we could like delve in, I think, a little bit on some of the numbers surrounding that question. The report shows a disconnect around digital literacy, with 50% of CIOs citing it as a top barrier to citizens accessing digital government services. Um, but few consumers are actually agreeing with that. And so, as well, there's a mismatch around the idea that citizens are having difficulty navigating government websites or platforms, um, with 88% of CISOs, uh sorry, of CIOs citing this as a top issue with only 56% of citizens. What do you think is the disconnect here? Um, and I will say, as a consumer of government services, I certainly have some difficulty navigating sometimes. So I'm I'm on the side of the CIOs here, but but what do you why do you think there's a disconnect? That's fair. I mean, here the numbers diverge again.

Eyal Darmon: 3:49

Half of CIO believe digital literacy is the top challenge, but only 19% of citizens say the same. And when you asked, you know, about the difficulty of navigating websites, you know, 88% of CIOs say it's a major barrier compared to only 56% of consumers. You know, CIOs often interact with edge cases. You know, they get the complaints, the system limitations that make navigation issues feel universal. But citizens, on the other hand, have probably grown more comfortable with digital experiences overall. Many are fluent with mobile apps, they do online banking, they they buy things on Amazon and on other e-commerce sites. So they don't feel, you know, they don't see basic navigation as core hurdles. But citizen do signal discomfort in other ways. Nearly half prefer in-person interactions. Nearly half. That's a lot. And 63% prefer them over AI, even if it means the wait is longer. That's that's one of the starking outcomes of this uh survey. Yeah. And that shows the barrier isn't literacy, it's trust. People can use the tools. They're just not always sure they should use them, and they're not comfortable using them yet. And that will take time.

Amy Glasscock: 5:07

50% is kind of shocking. I would have thought it would be like a quarter.

Eyal Darmon: 5:10

I know. I mean it's surprising, but the data is the data, and the way we've collected this data is really showing that you know, some of the things that maybe we expect to happen are not really showing in the actuals when you look at the data itself. Yeah.

Amy Glasscock: 5:25

Yeah.

Eyal Darmon: 5:26

So I think I've just outed myself as being digitally illiterate there, too. But we if you if you listen to the podcast, you know that's true. So to each his own, we're not judging. Well, maybe we are judging, but we're trying not to judge.

Alex Whitaker: 5:37

Yeah. Okay. So um, when it comes to sort of addressing the differences in this data, in you know, in your experience, what are some ways that state tech leaders can make sure that their assumptions about citizen pain points line up with people what people are actually experiencing?

Eyal Darmon: 5:51

You know, a few methods stand out. So one, you know, pairing turtle assumptions with direct citizen evidence, just like we talked about. We make some assumptions, but maybe it's not actually materialized when you look at the actual evidence. So, surveys, your behavior health data, and service journey analytics give a more accurate picture than anecdotal feedback from agencies or departments within a state. I would absolutely also test with real users early and often. Rapid pilots that include citizen interactions, as opposed to maybe taking a group of people and say, well, let's do some internal testing. Those things really surface true friction points when you do it with real citizens in real rapid pilots. And I think that's important. Um, I would use segmentation and not averages. You know, in our report, we came up with four different consumer personas: the digital natives, the early adopters, the skeptics, and the traditionalists. Each group, if you read through the report, have different digital expectations. They have different trust levels, and they have different comfort with AI. If CIOs design with personas in mind, they will avoid making assumptions of one need of one group versus the need of everyone. And then the last method that I would recommend is to close that feedback loop. Embedding fast feedback tools within those digital experiences really will help states validate assumptions continuously and not just annually or periodically when maybe they introduce new experiences.

Amy Glasscock: 7:31

So that's yeah, that's good. Um, and I think that persona part of the report is really interesting as well. And I encourage folks to take a look at that, you know, see where you see yourself in there, and remember that, you know, citizens all have different needs and and wants when it comes to interacting with the government. So in the report, we did see that there is some strong alignment in a couple of areas when it comes to the top concerns. And so about half of the citizens surveyed and about half of CIOs surveyed believe that privacy and security concerns are an a big issue for citizens, and about half of both groups believe that a lot of citizens still prefer in-person services. So, how can states use this information to improve access to citizen services?

Eyal Darmon: 8:17

Yeah, I mean, both groups hover around that 50% mark uh when it comes to concerns about privacy and security, like you said. And similar numbers believe many citizens, like we talked about before, still prefer in-person services. You know, that alignment is really powerful. It signals to states that they should replace, or sorry, they shouldn't replace human service channels. They should modernize them and they could take some practical steps to do that. So starting off, they can make some AI augmentation to those human interactions. Not replace them, but augment them. You know, I'll give you an example: AI can pre-fill forms, surface case histories, do drafts of communications to shorten the in-person visit activities. That way, citizens get faster, smoother experiences without the losing of that personal connection that they have come to trust and that they've reported that they trust. I would signal security clearly. Citizens want proof that their data is safe. And the unfortunate part is we hear about all the things that happen in states or in other organizations where security didn't meet expectations. So you hear a lot of the bad things, and so you know, CIOs can meet that expectation with very strong transparency, measures, and explainability of features so that there is a consistent message about how generative AI and even AI in general is really governed. And then the last example I would share with you is to kind of build multi-channel paths. Some citizens want instant digital services, some want human, some probably want some hybrid depending on the transaction. States can really design journeys that adjust to each individual preference, rather than saying, well, this service is only offered in one single channel for everyone. And that goes back to our personas. You want to think about different channels that are available for the same transaction, but that they fit those individual personas.

Alex Whitaker: 10:21

Alright, so moving away a bit from the topic of different perceptions between citizens and CIOs, there was another interesting part of the report that showed that frontline government workers are kind of lukewarm about AI and daily work. So just 32% feel encouraged to use AI, only 28% use tools several times a week. I'm wondering if you think this employee hesitancy is hindering states' ability to scale gen AI?

Eyal Darmon: 10:46

It absolutely does. You know, like you said, if only 32% of workers feel encouraged to use AI, and only 28% use AI several times a week, and just over half are optimistic about AI's impact on day-to-day notes, those are those are stark data points. Now, why? You know, when frontline workers aren't confident or trained, Gen AI tools will just sit unused. In the government space, it's important and critical to think about how do we introduce training, how do we introduce change management into how I change the way I do work. Even the best technologies depend on the willingness of the workforce to use it. So, yes, you know, hesitancy does become a bottleneck. Yeah. Um, and CIOs know this. They're recognizing this. There's a need to put AI adoption at the center of culture and capability and trust and create the training programs in place to really help bring and support our existing staff line, our frontline workers, with this tool. And I've seen a number of states have started to roll out those capabilities. And in talking to those CIOs, that's becoming the tipping point for more adoption and more usage.

Alex Whitaker: 12:09

So when it comes to kind of developing that adoption and usage, is it education? Is it training? Is it encouragement? Is it kind of all of the above? What do you think is kind of the most effective strategy that a CIO could utilize to build to build the trust with government workers? The short answer is yes, it's all of those things. Got it.

Eyal Darmon: 12:26

I mean, the the reports surface several strategies, and they uh point to the way to start thinking about it. So, you know, start with low risk, high-value use case. That helps to build confidence without really creating too much fear of how AI is gonna change the way we do work. You want to bring your workers and staff into the design process, have them co-create, have them put their fingerprints on these new workflows, on these new solutions. And really inviting them to shape how AI shows up in the workflow will surely create the right set of ownership mindset. You mentioned this before, we talked about it investing in training that's practical, not the academic theoretical. Give them fingers on keyboard to really do various AI capabilities so that they can see it in their day-to-day work, not the academic classroom type setting where I'm just observing someone else doing it. I think it's important, and we don't talk about this enough, but making sure that there's clear ethical guidelines and policies. Responsible AI is the tipping point for someone who wants to use this and someone who doesn't want to use it. And it's it's important. And I think in our study, over 90% of uh CIOs are already focusing on responsible AI practices, which is fantastic. And then lastly, I can't state this enough because I don't think we do this enough in government. We need to celebrate success stories. Workers need to hear about how AI is reducing workloads, it's reducing backlogs, it's making day-to-day tasks easier for them and their peers, and it will create some envy of more people wanting to use these tools. And it should be shared not just within a given agency or a given department or a given state, but across states. And I think NASIO does a fantastic job celebrating those success stories. I would urge all of us to continue that celebration because that makes the difference.

Alex Whitaker: 14:24

Yeah, absolutely. Um, it's good to hear a positive spin on AI. I feel like the last few weeks we've been hearing, I don't want to say nothing bit negative, but lots more about kind of the warnings. Um, so this has been a really, really great conversation. And then, of course, we encourage everyone to actually read the whole report um and get a little bit more information than just kind of this in-depth section that we've talked about. And we'll put a link in our show notes. Um, that can also, but it can also be accessed on the NASIO Resource Center online. So thank you again for joining us. But before we let you go, uh we have to ask you three fun questions about your life outside of work in the segment that we call. The lightning round. Are you ready? I am ready. Let's go. All right. So, first, if you could instantly become good at any hobby in 2026, what would you choose?

Eyal Darmon: 15:11

So I don't have any musical skills whatsoever. So if I could instantly become good at something, I would learn how to play the piano. It's creative, it's meditative, uh, and it's totally different from the pace of AI and the public service work that I do today.

Amy Glasscock: 15:26

That's exactly what I would say too.

Alex Whitaker: 15:28

Nice.

Amy Glasscock: 15:29

In my head, I was like, I would learn to play piano. So next question. What is a project that you want to tackle in 2026 outside of work, of course?

Eyal Darmon: 15:39

So I spend a lot of time on the road. So my my honey-do list is long. And so if I uh I don't think it's a project, I think it's house projects with an S at the end. And the list gets longer and longer. So I'm hoping that even before 26 starts, I can get some of that uh list down and uh continue to strive to keep it on uh on a single page and not back uh back to back on two pages.

Amy Glasscock: 16:02

It's never ending.

Speaker 1: 16:03

Nice. All right, so Eyal um you and I have both lived in Denver, so I like this third question. Um, what do you think is the best part about living in Denver in the winter?

Eyal Darmon: 16:13

So I think one of the hidden things about Denver that people don't realize is that Denver gets over 300 days of sunshine a year. So my favorite part of Denver in the winter is that you can have snow, it's not a cloud in the sky, you can do some great skiing and not have to worry about the typical uh perception that you have of skiing where it's like cold and dreary, but it's just a beautiful sunny day. Yet there's snow on the ground and you're in the mountains and you have a great day of skiing with real good powder.

Alex Whitaker: 16:46

It's true. With Denver weather. I mean, it's 70 in the morning and then it's snowing at night. It's crazy.

Eyal Darmon: 16:51

It it could also become 80 and you wouldn't even realize it. Uh and snow the next morning.

Alex Whitaker: 16:55

Uh-huh. Absolutely.

Amy Glasscock: 16:57

I went skiing at Winter Park in March, I believe it was, for the end of March. So it was like spring break time, and you know, up on that mountain, it was very cold. And then we came down to Denver to fly home, and it was like, oh, it really is springtime down here. So it's like a completely different climate. Yeah.

Eyal Darmon: 17:13

It's it's a it's a different experience than I think most people perceive as uh Colorado weather.

Amy Glasscock: 17:18

Yeah, that's true. All right, Eyal, thanks again for your time today. We really appreciate it. Thanks for coming on the podcast.

Eyal Darmon: 17:24

Thank you so much. I'm honored to be part of this.

Amy Glasscock: 17:26

Thanks. Talk to you soon.

Speaker 2: 17:27

Thank you.

Alex Whitaker: 17:29

Thanks again for listening to NASCIO Voices. It's a production of the National Association of State Chief Information Officers. Learn more at NASCIO.org.

Amy Glasscock: 17:35

We'll be back next time with NASCIO President J.R. Sloan to chat about the year ahead. Happy New Year.