The CIO Who Came Back: Craig Orgeron's Second Tour Leading Mississippi IT

Join Amy Glasscock and Alex Whitaker as they sit down with Craig Orgeron, Mississippi's CIO, for an in-depth conversation about digital transformation in state government. Craig shares his unique journey from state CIO to the private sector and back again, offering valuable insights on AI innovation, procurement modernization, and building resilient digital infrastructure. Discover how Mississippi is tackling the digital divide, establishing AI frameworks, and preparing for the future of government technology.

Show Notes

0:00 - Introduction
Amy and Alex welcome Craig Orgeron back to NASCIO Voices

0:21 - Return to State CIO Role
Craig discusses his unexpected return to Mississippi's CIO position after three and a half years in the private sector, reflecting on the challenges of his first year back

3:00 - Lessons from Private Sector
Craig shares key insights from his time outside government, including deeper appreciation for private sector competition and the value of the NASCIO network

9:18 - Mississippi's Digital Government Agenda
Overview of major initiatives including procurement modernization, cloud migration, innovation fund, AI executive order, and new cybersecurity legislation

15:06 - Digital Equity Initiatives
Craig highlights grassroots efforts like the Mississippi AI Network (MAIN), AI Collaborative, and Mississippi Cyber Initiative working to close the digital divide

18:42 - AI Strategy and Policy
Discussion of AI governance, the democratization of technology, data quality, change fitness, and the importance of transparency and accountability in AI deployment

24:11 - Lightning Round
Quick questions about vacation plans (European river cruise!), Mississippi travel recommendations (blues trail, museums, Elvi's restaurant), and excitement for the NASCIO midyear meeting

Transcript

Amy Glasscock 0:05

Hi, and welcome to NASCIO Voices, where we talk all things state IT. I'm Amy Glasscock in Lexington, Kentucky.

Alex Whitaker 0:11

And I'm Alex Whitaker in Washington, D.C. Today we're joined by Craig Orgeron, Chief Information Officer for the State of Mississippi. He's here to tell us about what's going on in his state and why he came back to the role of state CIO after some time away.

Amy Glasscock 0:23

That's right. Craig, welcome to NASCIO Voices and thanks so much for joining us.

Craig Orgeron 0:27

Oh, it is a pleasure to be here. Thanks for asking me to join.

Alex Whitaker 0:30

Yeah, absolutely. I can't believe we haven't had you on before, Craig. This is uh surprising. You know, because of course this is not your first time serving as CIO for the state of Mississippi. Um, so tell us about uh the path that took you from CIO to the private sector and then all the way back to your current role.

Craig Orgeron 0:45

Well, I think I would start by saying it wasn't fully expected to be back, um, but I did have a uh a wonderful uh first time in the role. Um I was in my tenth year when I did decide to retire. Uh, and I had, of course, the distinct pleasure of serving as um NASIO's president as well. But no, I think you know, you you're in this role, and you know, you sort of look around and you've done a lot of things and you want to kind of experience, you know, uh what else is out there. Um, I do think that it wasn't just in the COVID year in 2020 when I when I did leave the first time, but I think the role of the state CIO was changing. We saw a lot of private sector companies, you know, really beginning to really rely on, you know, CIOs that were leaving government or CIOs that were transitioning because that sort of strategic conversation was, you know, so important. So I did leave for the private sector, did that for a few years, pivoted over to working with the Center for Digital Government as a senior fellow and did some teaching as well. And uh lo and behold, in 2024, I got a phone call to ask if I was interested uh in returning. And uh it has been, I will tell you, an amazing nearly two years back in terms of what the state is doing, the things that we've accomplished. You know, we are in the last week of our 2026 legislative session. Um so it is certainly thrilling to be back, though. I will say I got a lot of questions at the beginning of, you know, why did you come back or something? I did have a friend that asked me about you know the challenge if you know the role before. But what I would say very declaratively is my first year back was as hard as my first year originally. You know, it's it's a tough, it's a tough job, as y'all know. But I am really proud of what the state, you know, has accomplished in the last few years. And I I think it sets the agency on a transformative path. And, you know, very proud of the team here at ITS. We were we were just meeting um earlier this morning. So I think our executive management team is an amazing collection of very dedicated and talented folks that are serving uh their state and the citizens of our state.

Alex Whitaker 3:12

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm really curious about uh you know the reasons for why it uh was as challenging that first year. I mean, curious about whether there were any lessons from the private sector or maybe the Center for Digital Governance that you brought back with you when you uh came back to the state.

Craig Orgeron 3:26

Well, I will tell I will tell you this. So I think you know, I lived in a little bit of a state bubble, you know, you know, for years, having had a long career in government before getting the job the first time. I think though, Alex, that seeing the other side and really appreciating the other side, really appreciating, you know, the challenges in the private sector, right? That these firms are competing for market share. They're they're attempting to differentiate. That's what private sector folks do. And sometimes I think, you know, given the career I had in government, I don't know that I had a full appreciation for that challenge. You know, on the public sector side, you can really feel like you're grappling with so many potential business partners that are out there, and how do you have these conversations that are appropriate and those kind of things? So I think it was a it was very informative for me to see that. I think it was also amazing to really re-appreciate and sort of double down on the gratitude for the network that is out there, right? So we often talk about the the NASIO network and when we get together. Um, but I think one of my key lessons was that that that network really is even more expansive. Um, it is expansive into our private sector partners. And, you know, that realization that a quick text message or a quick call for advice is is an amazing, valuable resource to have, you know, as you're attempting um to do the job. Coming back was just as tough. I mean, you are walking into kind of a 24-7 kind of job, whether it's the operational piece or the policy and political parts of it. You re-acclimate, I think, to that. You know, if you're sitting in that chair, you're asked to build these strategic agendas, strategy and communication, the the top two components of a state CIO, and you're asked to do that, to move the state forward. The organizational elements are are very, very challenging as well. Not that you, because here we certainly do have wonderful people, I think it's really structural. How do you need to be structured as an example for artificial intelligence, right? I mean, it's not just an AI officer or a team that's handling it, it's really inside your organization. How do you deliver what you need to deliver well? So there's a lot of moving parts to get your head wrapped around and get moving. When you do get that momentum, it is an amazing feeling to get that momentum and to be moving on the initiatives that the state has.

Amy Glasscock 6:17

So you were away from that position, was it about four years?

Craig Orgeron 6:22

Yeah, it was about three and a half or so. I left in August of 20 and came back in the summer of 24. So not quite.

Amy Glasscock 6:30

Okay. Okay. Yeah. So and I was thinking back to when I first started at NASIO in 2014 and you were our president, our NASIO president at the time. And so as NASIO president, you always have an invitation to NASIO events. And so during that time that you were away from the CIO role, I mean, we never lost touch. You were at our events, whether as a corporate member or coming to our premier receptions as past president. So that's been great. But I'm wondering if during that time that you were gone, you felt like anything had changed. Was there anything that might have surprised you when you came back?

Craig Orgeron 7:04

I think there was a a couple things with the way you ask it, Amy. I think first, this the speed with which innovation happens certainly changed. We three can say this to ourselves, but it really struck me that the pace of technical change and innovation has always been at odds in in some manner of speaking with the pace of government, right? So I've always, it has always hit me like a brick that we've married government and technology to just tremendously different things, just from a pace and a deliberateness, and how much more nimble, agile, and flexible we need to be. So I think on the state side, the dauntingness of the pace itself, and you still have to translate it, right? Even if the government structures, the budgeting process, the policymaking process, it is in essence very much the same, you still have to traverse that. You have to traverse and I think be a communicator between those worlds, right? Because you will get asked a lot of those kinds of questions. I think on the on the NASIO side, I I think about the serving as president and being on the executive committee for many years, and now just the growth of that community, right? Which is what you would expect. States are going to be spending more on technology by definition because there is just more technology. And so that community has grown so significantly. And those are certainly two of the things that struck me and continue to strike me as we build the agenda here to move the state forward.

Amy Glasscock 8:51

Yeah. Yeah, that's true. It it has grown a lot since you were first involved with NASIO. And I should say too that you are on the executive committee again in this new iteration of your job. So we really appreciate that. And we were actually just saying at our staff meeting earlier today when I mentioned that we were going to be interviewing you, everyone was just kind of saying how much they appreciate you and everything that you do for NASIO and all of your hard work and just being a nice person as well. Thank you for that. Okay, so tell us what is on the agenda for the next few years. What are you most excited about and any big projects that you have coming up?

Craig Orgeron 9:26

Oh, sure. So lots going on. I think from a big picture perspective, we embarked upon my return of procurement modernization. It had been things we sort of nibbled at, but we not only created a procurement modernization advisory committee with our 30 largest agencies and kicked off an engagement to help us facilitate that. We got some legislation passed last year, House Bill 958, to move us down that path. In House Bill 1491 from the 2025 session, we got a cloud center of excellence put into statute and have had a very good year building momentum to make some more aggressive assessments and migrations to the cloud. Also, in House Bill 1491, there was a first ever innovation fund for the state of Mississippi, which we had not had before. And this year we sought to really seed that fund and focus it on artificial intelligence, which we did. We, from an artificial intelligence perspective, of course, working with our governor, Governor Reeves, the governor signed Executive Order 1584, which sort of pushed the state forward in artificial intelligence. We stood up an AI innovation hub that brings together partners from across the state, universities, to really do that part of government very different, very much more iterative, very flexible and agile to move that ball forward. We, in addition, the legislature last year passed Senate Bill 2267, which directed us to study the feasibility of a data exchange in the state. And we have a long way to go from a data maturity perspective and how we need to move the ball forward. In this year, we've also had a fabulous legislative session and very grateful. So we have two net new topics. One has already been passed, I'm very pleased to say, and signed by the governor. It's an optimization initiative that really, for the first time ever in a federated state, creates a framework for us to really develop, and my dear friend Eric Sweden would, I think, be happy about this, a business and technical architecture. So the governor has signed that. We have another, that is Senate Bill 2563. Senate Bill 2564 from this session, which is still quite at the end of the process, it's in it's in conference now, but it will direct us to work in state government to set up a cybersecurity operations center to kind of move forward in maturing cybersecurity in the state. So it does seem to have wind in its sails that the legislature wants to move forward on. So across those two years, whether it's procurement modernization, artificial intelligence, a much more profound cloud migration from a modernization perspective, looking at data. So I'm very, very proud of that agenda over the last two years. So I think, Amy, we were able to craft kind of a very compelling set of initiatives, but I think you have to have a lot of folks at the table. There has to be your governor, has to be behind you. You have to have legislative sponsors and leaders, right, who want to sit down. We've got two wonderful technology chairs in the House and Senate where a lot of these bills were debated and talked through. So it's really been an amazing couple of years in terms of seeing those initiatives really at the very beginning to take off. That said, there's always other big projects, right? Whether it's going to be a DMV modernization, which we were talking at the capital of this session about, other big projects that are in flight, several other large modernization efforts that are going to be sort of the state's first cloud native solutions to move forward on. So no shortage of exciting things to do. We are a 27 state by way of our gubernatorial elections. So we're not in that big cohort this coming November, but the year after. And so we are ramping up and through the end of Governor Reeves' administration and clearly and I think strategically thinking about this time frame, but the end of an administration and what that transition would be in January of 28 and how to position the state and these initiatives with the new governor.

Alex Whitaker 14:27

Certainly a lot of new governors are going to be coming in over the next year. So I don't know if I envy Doug Robinson and all the calls he's going to be making. I guess early next year. Well, that's great. So as as you and I have talked about, I can count myself lucky to have been able to grow up a lot of my childhood in Mississippi. Great state. Um but knowing the state, I also know that there are some challenges in reaching some of the underserved populations, are there as there are in all states, not unique to Mississippi. But would love to know how are you all in Mississippi working to make sure that everybody has access to digital services so that everybody who wants to access those great things the state is offering can do so?

Craig Orgeron 15:02

Yeah, that's a fabulous question. I think there's a few things that I came back to and have worked to partner with and nurture in my couple of years back. But Alex, the way you frame it is so spot on. We used to talk about the digital divide being there, but with things like artificial intelligence, these gaps in some ways can grow where there's a disenfranchisement that can be exceedingly expansive, especially something as transformational as artificial intelligence. There's a couple of things I was thinking about. We have uh some initiatives in the state that I've never quite seen before. One is the Mississippi Artificial Intelligence Network. We call it Maine. It is run out of the Mississippi Gulf Coast Community College in partnership with Mississippi State University. And it's amazing. Maine is a kind of a grassroots collaborative, if you will, consortium, maybe is a better word, that's really focused on access, skilling, training for the future. Its director is Dr. Colin Napier. And Colin and I have become friends, and what Maine is able to do in the lens that I have as a state CIO is amazing because they have this network that they have built, getting the word out, helping people, really, like you were saying, Alex, about getting folks the kind of training and the and the skills they need. We have a second one called the AI Collaborative. In some ways, Maine's focus is universities, kind of community colleges, although they've grown. Our AI Collaborative is kind of has a deeper K-12 focus. They're both having conferences, putting on workshops and training. So those two are just have been amazing. We have a third one called the Mississippi Cyber Initiative, which is very similar, right? So it's raising the bar on cyber education, bringing parties together. And so one of the comments that I've made regularly is you, as a state CIO, can burn a lot of calories, a lot of energy bringing people together, right? That can be some giant part of the job. How do you bring people together? How do you build momentum? And these consortiums have really been amazing. And I think that really touches on kind of a key part of your question of how do you raise the bar? How do you ensure that that that rising tide helps everyone? And and a shout out to those consortiums in Mississippi because I think they are amazing, and I think it kind of shows the kind of grassroots efforts that's happening in the state around some of these innovative technologies.

Amy Glasscock 18:04

A lot of good work happening in Mississippi for sure.

Craig Orgeron 18:07

Yeah, absolutely.

Amy Glasscock 18:08

So, Craig, we've mentioned AI a couple times in this conversation, but you can't get out of this podcast without us asking about it directly. So we know from our survey data and that pretty much all of the states are using generative AI now. So we'd love to hear a little bit more about how Gen AI works into your plans. And then are there any things that you're particularly excited or worried about around AI in general?

Craig Orgeron 18:33

Great question. So I mentioned in coming back in in 24, my first really my first six weeks back, we were able to draft, the team was able to draft an executive order for the governor to consider, which he did and ended up signing. The legislature in 2025 passed Senate Bill 2426, which was sort of an AI, I say task force, I know, which is an overused term, but it was really intended to bring people together in and through calendar year 25, which we did to talk about regulatory issues or challenges or potential legislative issues or challenges or things that we needed to consider doing. But a couple of the high points to me are our AI Innovation Hub in partnership with Maine, the group I had mentioned and AWS, to really try to get use cases with agencies developed much quicker in a much more agile way than government has typically worked here to move the ball forward. So lots of excitement there. I will say though that I think a lot of the use cases are only really just beginning to somewhat morph away from kind of what I kind of term the individual contributor mindset to something approaching at scale, approaching, impacting how organizations work or how organizations serve the citizens of Mississippi. So I think that is some of the components which I think are amazing. The House, this session passed House Bill 1723 to define artificial intelligence, and that was sort of some of the work coming out of the committee. We put together kind of a best of breed acceptable use policy with guiding principles. Some folks refer to them as AI Bill of Rights. So lots of good foundational sort of framework things in the last year to help us pivot to what is next. I will tell you, though, a couple of points. So to me, when you think of AI, I tend to think of the democratization of the technology, what's in everyone's hands. When it is, it helps augment. It has an augmentative quality of I'm faster, I'm better at the things I'm doing. One key component, of course, is data, and that I think about a lot. The bright shiny object, right, to quote Doug Robinson, it's still a little distracting with AI. I think there's got to be a lot of conversations about the quality of the data from all vantage points. I think viewing data as a strategic asset and having the pieces and parts that you need are critically important. A fourth element that I think we see the glimmers of is this idea of change fitness. How well do you metabolize change? Inside of an organization, I think I have expectations that this will dramatically alter how we work. There are prognostications of a hundred million robocolleagues or a hundred million synthetic team members. Members that are going to really alter the way that work gets done. And so I think the ability for organizations to metabolize that change and pivot is going to be wildly important. And I think I would end with I still think we don't need to be scared about talking about bias, about transparency, about accountability. These technologies and these models are just amazing what they can do generative. These generative, pre-trained transformers that are going to be part of our world. But I don't think we need to get overly enamored. I still think that there is a thoughtful policy about how these tools are used, how they impact individuals, and then specifically the explainability or transparency of these models. I think that is a mildly neglected or it became much more of a back seat as in November of 22 when this thing really took off like a rocket ship. And I think we need to keep those appropriately in front of us, right? Not to dampen the concept of innovation, but to keep to keep those other policy type things in front of us as well.

Amy Glasscock 23:13

Yeah, I think that's right too. All right. Well, we have definitely covered a lot of ground. So anything in particular that you wanted to discuss that we may have missed today?

Craig Orgeron 23:22

I don't think so. I think the last couple of years here in Mississippi have been amazingly productive, and I certainly look forward to at least being at the beginning of being able to see some of those things come to fruition for our state.

Amy Glasscock 23:37

Yeah, great.

Alex Whitaker 23:38

Awesome. Well, Craig, thanks so much for that perspective. Obviously, so many cool things going on in Mississippi. So it's great to hear about them. But of course, before we let you go, we can't let you leave without a few questions and a round that we call the lightning round.

Craig Orgeron 23:53

Are you ready? Maybe, yes.

Alex Whitaker 23:56

All right. So spring is here, which means summer is right around the corner. Any fun vacation plans coming up in the next few months?

Craig Orgeron 24:02

Well, one thing that the the Orgerons would be doing is we're going to be doing a river cruise in Europe. Oh. First ever. So hopefully we will get there and get back with all the travel things. But yeah, that one's pretty exciting about that one. Awesome. Yeah.

Amy Glasscock 24:19

That does sound fun. I'd love to do that sometime. All right. Next question. What would you recommend that someone visiting Mississippi for the first time see, do, eat, hear? Whatever your recommendation is.

Craig Orgeron 24:31

Oh, Gosh!

Amy Glasscock 24:32

It doesn't have to be all of them.

Craig Orgeron 24:33

I mean, we have a fabulous blues trail. If the history of the blues is anything of interest, we have two amazing new museums in downtown that I I highly, highly recommend you visit. And then, of course, it is Mississippi, and so eat eating is a hobby. There is a lovely place that I think was just awarded a Michelin star called Elvies in a part of town that's sort of getting revived. So I would highly recommend brunch at Elvi's if you were here and want something delicious to eat.

Amy Glasscock 25:08

Sounds fun. All right. And then last lightning round question how excited are you for the NASIO mid-year meeting in Philadelphia next month?

Craig Orgeron 25:16

I'm super excited. That's the right answer. I kind of miss National Harbor, to tell you the truth. But look looking forward to I I think the thing I look forward to is a version of this, like re-reconnecting with everyone. And we will be taking our team there, and we'll look forward to lots of great conversation.

Amy Glasscock 25:34

Great. Well, we look forward to seeing you and your team and everybody else in Philadelphia next month. So thanks again, Craig. We really appreciate talking to you and for you taking the time out during a busy schedule to talk to us.

Craig Orgeron 25:46

So you got it.

Amy Glasscock 25:47

See you soon. Thanks.

Alex Whitaker 25:48

All right.

Craig Orgeron 25:48

Bye, y'all.

Amy Glasscock 25:49

Bye.

Alex Whitaker 25:49

Thanks. Thanks again for listening to NASIO Voices. NASCIO Voices is a production of the National Association of State Chief Information Officers. Learn more at NASIO.org.

Amy Glasscock 25:59

We'll be back soon with more great state IT content. And don't forget to like and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.