The Growing Role of Technology for State Attorneys General with NAAG Executive Director Brian Kane

In this episode of NASCIO Voices, Amy and Alex sit down with Brian Kane, Executive Director of the National Association of Attorneys General (NAAG). Brian shares his journey from entry-level deputy to chief deputy of the Idaho AG's office — and how that experience led him to his current role serving all 56 state and territorial attorneys general. We talk about how NAAG keeps a bipartisan coalition working together, the growing role of technology and AI in AG offices, and what state CIOs should know about their AG counterparts. Plus, Brian gives us his take on pickleball, the '90s, and his childhood dream of playing pro baseball.

Transcript

Amy Glasscock 0:04

Hi, and welcome to NASCIO Voices, where we talk all things state IT. I'm Amy Glasscock in Lexington, Kentucky.

Alex Whitaker 0:11

And I'm Alex Whitaker in Washington, D.C. Today we're joined by Brian Kane, Executive Director of the National Association of Attorneys General. We'll hear from Brian about what's going on with our nation's AGs and how they think about things like AI and technology.

Amy Glasscock 0:23

That's right. Brian, welcome to NASCIO Voices and thanks so much for joining us.

Speaker 1 0:27

Thank you. Excited to be here.

Amy Glasscock 0:29

Yeah, we're excited to have you. All right. So we always like to start these things off by asking you to tell us about your background and how you came into the role of executive director for the National Association of Attorneys General or NAG for short.

Brian Kane 0:43

Sure. I uh I grew up on the East Coast uh and then went out west for college with a short stop in the U.S. Army. I worked in private practice and for the AG's office. I worked in the Idaho Attorney General's office for about 20 years, going from kind of an entry-level line deputy all the way up to chief deputy attorney general. So essentially going from, you know, entry level to number two in the office, I reported directly to the attorney general. I did quite a bit of work nationally with our fellow AGs. I did quite a bit of training of the offices through the National Association's training arm. My boss left office. I had to find something new to do with myself. And so this position as executive director was open and I came into that. And I've been here now for about four years. And the best way to think of it is scaling my work from working for one AG as chief deputy to now I work for 56 attorneys general, all the states, territories, and the district, essentially as their chief deputy. My job is to make AGs in their offices perform more effectively and efficiently.

Amy Glasscock 1:52

Wow, I can't imagine there could be anybody much more qualified to take that position than you, having really seen it from the ground up.

Brian Kane 1:58

So yeah, there's a lot of folks out there though. I mean, especially in the chief deputy ranks, like the chief deputy ranks within the AG's offices have just such a varied outlook and perspective based on the depth of what they have to handle on a day-to-day basis. A lot of great folks out there.

Amy Glasscock 2:14

I can imagine. So for those who may not be familiar, can you tell us a little bit about NAG and the work that you guys do?

Brian Kane 2:21

Sure. National Association of Attorneys General, our acronym, unfortunately, is NAAG. So we've actually had some discussions about whether there's a way to alter that. But unfortunately, I think the die is cast on that one. So what we do is first and foremost, we we were created actually out of the National Master Tobacco Settlement, also known as the MSA Agreement. We came together originally in 1907 to take on standard oil in an antitrust action. Wow. And then fast forward, you know, many years, and one of our next great successes, there are a lot of successes along the way, but was with the Master Settlement Agreement. And that was the agreement that was signed in 1998 and to this day provides payments to all of the states based on the harms that tobacco has done over the years. This year we just had our payment go out on April 15th, and it was approximately $5 billion that's distributed to all of the signatory states. And then out of that, we also do consumer protection work, we do antitrust work, we do bankruptcy work, legal work with and on behalf of the states. You probably have heard or read about certain multistates, probably the most significant of which was the recent Live Nation jury verdict that came out about a week ago, or less than a week ago at this point. They engaged in anti-competitive conduct. And really one of our primary purposes is bringing the attorneys general together in a bipartisan fashion where we get groups of them. We also have a training arm. We did over 100 trainings and reached more than 20,000 folks in AG offices. And so we serve not just the AG's names on the door, but we serve every aspect of the office within it and offer them training as well as the ability to get together with their peers. And so, for example, we have a group of IT officers that get together and talk about the things that are unique to serving the AG community and their offices. Kind of it's almost like an offshoot of the work that you all do.

Alex Whitaker 4:25

Yeah. So that's really interesting. And you you mentioned bipartisan agreement and consensus. And you know, at NASIO, we we try to do that as well. Um, but you have a very diverse group of elected officials as your membership. So I'm curious, how do you find common ground and consensus? And how do you decide when to weigh in and on what? And what's the decision-making process like there?

Brian Kane 4:44

Sure. Um, so I think the best way to think of our organization is with a Venn diagram. And if you drew a great big circle with an R in it and a great big circle with a D in it and overlap them, you'd have maybe five to 10% on either side that doesn't overlap. Um, and one of the things that we do is we just make sure that that stuff that doesn't overlap doesn't come into our um tent. And the AGs, I think, understand and respect that to a large degree. Like they understand there's just certain things that we don't need to have a discussion on because we've got more than enough stuff that we agree on that we can discuss and work together with, right? And and a great example of that is in the area of things like tobacco and consumer protection and antitrust, right? AGs generally understand, hey, this is a this is a practice that we want to take on together. And there's no more powerful legal force than the 56 AGs agreeing on a legal issue and working towards a common goal on it. And I think that that becomes one of those elements. The other thing that we do to kind of protect ourselves is when we bring issues forward, we have uh we have things called sign-on letters. We require two and two. So we need two AGs from each party to say we want to circulate this among our fellow AGs. And then in order for it to become a policy of our association, we require 36 uh AGs to agree to it. And just to give you an idea of what that looks like, last year we circulated 24 of those policy letters, and we reached policy, meaning 36 or more AGs assigned onto it 20 times. And so that gives you an idea of how effective the AGs are at working together.

Alex Whitaker 6:33

Yeah, absolutely. That's the really impressive number. And I know that having worked at NGA and NASIO, that it's not easy to get there. So that's very cool. I don't know. We've often coordinated on technology issues and shared our expertise and gotten your advice. But, you know, I'm curious what role does technology play for the attorney generals? And, you know, do you have some top technology concerns that you all are focused on?

Brian Kane 6:53

Uh yes. And and I think, you know, to me, what we've seen is uh technology has increasingly come to the forefront of the AGs, right? If you look at the New Mexico AG's verdict against Meta uh a couple of weeks ago, the AG's work on deepfakes, uh, chat bots. I think the Florida Attorney General filed a suit about chatbots and how they are a little bit sycophantic, meaning they tell you what you want to hear. It's a prominent aspect of what AGs are addressing from a health and safety, a youth safety concern, and then to just how it's being deployed, right? These are all legal offices. And so AGs have to deal with it not just as a consumer or constituent issue. They also have to deal with it as a working issue, meaning we work and use these tools every day, each and every day. And, you know, artificial intelligence is a great example of that. AGs, just like everybody else, have folks in their office that are deploying these tools and they have to understand how they're being deployed, what the capabilities are, uh, and what it means for their work output.

Amy Glasscock 7:58

Our two organizations work together pretty closely. And I'm curious, you know, what do you wish as executive director of NAG, what do you wish a state CIO knew about the average attorney general office?

Brian Kane 8:11

I guess the thing that I I I wish they knew, although I don't know that I they kind of know it. Um the AG office is oftentimes in whatever state they're in, the largest law office in the state. And so there's a scope and a breadth to the work that they do that really encompasses quite a lot. And so that there's a large horizon to the work that an AG's office undertakes. And it's really easy to start thinking about the work that an AG's office undertakes as being, you know, kind of segregated into these little silos without understanding those silos, there's a lot of work that crosses them and creates breadth and scope to what they do.

Amy Glasscock 8:54

Yeah, that's a good point. So I always joke that nobody can get out of this podcast without talking about AI a little bit. So, you know, I know that artificial intelligence is presenting challenges for state government officials across the nation and across the board. What sort of unique challenges has AI posed for the AGs? And also how are the AGs thinking about integrating AI into their work?

Brian Kane 9:18

So I think that, you know, AI is one of those things that it's rapidly evolving. So it's a known unknown at this point for AG offices. I think they're grappling with the fact that number one, we've got a constituent dilemma with AI, meaning what's the impact on our constituents and how is it being deployed? And that's from like a consumer protection perspective or from a deep fake pornography perspective, right? Where the AG might have to take action with regard to what artificial intelligence is outputting or leading to. Then there's also the challenge that it poses within the legal system and for how work gets done, both within the office from a legal perspective, but then also within its agency and state clients for how they're deploying it and what does that mean for them? And I think that, you know, to me, the AGs, like all of us, have to deal with the fact that even if they don't have like an adopted artificial intelligence system or policy, people in their office are still using it. They may not be talking about it, but it's still being used. And what hazards does that create with kind of that unknown or unquantified usage and deployment of artificial intelligence? I think that, you know, to me, the thing that I keep hearing AGs reinforce is that AI is simply a tool. It should never be treated as a replacement. And yet, consistently, both on the consumer constituent level and even in the workplace level, folks will overly defer to artificial intelligence. And that generally creates problems. And so it's how do you reconcile all of those elements in order to get to an output that is manageable for the AGs and their offices?

Alex Whitaker 11:04

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think that that's in keeping with a lot of things we've heard from other agencies too. So that's right. Yeah. Brian, any other major initiatives you all are working on that you'd like to tell us about? Anything else going on this year for NAG?

Brian Kane 11:16

So I think, you know, as an organization, we have a lot going on. And I think that to me, it's one of those things that your listeners will probably be most interested in is we have tech boot camps, we have artificial intelligence webinars, we have a whole series of things that we are consistently working on. A webinar with you all on the state-of-state technology and cyber. That's the thing that we're going to continue to work on. We have brought together all of the IT folks within uh AG's offices. And one of the things that we've noticed out of that is that they have seen a need to meet more because of how quickly the technology, not just the technology, but the needs for technology within the offices are evolving. And we kind of continue to work at upskilling all the folks within our member offices so that they can understand how they can more effectively and efficiently partner with technology to be more successful.

Alex Whitaker 12:12

Yeah, absolutely. Well, that is really interesting. I think some things that we're also focused on at NASCIO. So appreciate that perspective. But Brian, thank you so much for this awesome conversation. We really love the chance to learn more about the AGs. But before we let you go, we want to ask you just a little bit about your life outside of work and something that we call the lightning round. Are you ready?

Brian Kane 12:33

Yes.

Alex Whitaker 12:34

Awesome. All right. So first, what keeps you busy on the weekends?

Brian Kane 12:37

The outdoors and uh and pickleball. I live in Idaho and uh I do quite we do quite a bit of hiking and and getting out there and just enjoying being outside and and uh blissfully away from technology and the things of man, as I like to call it. Um, and then also pickleball. You know, there's nothing there's nothing that uh allows you to deal with pent-up frustration like hitting a plastic wiffle ball as hard as you can, whether it goes in or out.

Amy Glasscock 13:06

Super fun. I love pickleball. I don't think we've talked about it on NASCIO Voices before, but I've never played.

Alex Whitaker 13:12

It's I have missed that craze. Yeah. Oh yeah, feel good.

Brian Kane 13:15

It's worth it.

Amy Glasscock 13:15

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. All right, second question. If you could spend the day in any other time period, what would it be?

Brian Kane 13:22

Um, that's a great so so I I gotta admit, I think I would go back to the 90s at some point. Uh I feel like the nineties were a golden age of music and um it was back when MTV still played videos and it just feels like it was a very happy, optimistic time.

Alex Whitaker 13:41

Yeah.

Brian Kane 13:42

Um plus there's probably some stock moves that would make sense if I could go back there.

Amy Glasscock 13:46

Yes. I feel like the nineties are having this sort of cultural resurgence and nostalgia right now.

Brian Kane 13:51

Yeah, and I think there's a reason for it.

Amy Glasscock 13:54

What's that?

Brian Kane 13:55

That that it was just awesome.

Amy Glasscock 13:57

Oh, yes.

Brian Kane 13:58

Like like those of us that got to live it, like, you know, folks are there there's a new age that are like, man, those guys look like they really had a good time back then.

Alex Whitaker 14:05

No, that's true. So we're doing a fundraiser for my kids' school, and the theme, it's all millennials planning it. The theme is uh is the 90s for this fundraiser. So I think you're right. It's it's having a resurgence.

Amy Glasscock 14:16

Yeah, well, there's that that show on right now, the JFK Jr. and Carolyn Bassett Kennedy. And I think that's really getting people into the 90s and like, oh, just walking around New York City and not using cell phones, you know, it just sounds really nice.

Brian Kane 14:30

Yeah. I always think about that. Like, like, I don't know, I I'm not sure how old you are, but you know, we didn't have cell phones, and we went to like we had these awesome concerts like Lollapalooza and the Vans Warp Tour and all these things. And I can't tell you the number of times that we would go to the cop to go to an event like that in separate cars, and we never had a problem finding each other. Yeah, it was like magic.

Amy Glasscock 14:53

I know it's hard to wrap your head around how that worked, right? Yeah, you just figured it out, made plans and you had to stick to them. So yeah.

Alex Whitaker 15:00

All right. So, Brian, what was your dream job when you were a kid?

Brian Kane 15:04

So when I was a kid, I wanted to be a pro baseball player. Um I'm an Orioles fan, and I think I I alternated between be wanting to be, you know, like Mark Belanger or Jim Palmer or somebody or or Cal Ripkin. Like those were all kind of things that I was like, oh yeah, someday. But that that didn't pan out.

Amy Glasscock 15:23

Hey, you never know.

Alex Whitaker 15:24

Yeah. Or Orioles are having a good season, though, too, right? I think they're doing pretty well.

Brian Kane 15:28

They're hit and miss. They're okay, gotcha. They have a good night and then they have a night where it's like, you guys have played baseball before, right? Fair enough.

Amy Glasscock 15:38

Yeah. All right. Well, thanks again, Brian, for spending some time with us today. We really appreciate it and uh hope that we get to see you soon.

Brian Kane 15:46

Thanks, me too. Look forward to it. Really appreciate your time and your questions. It's a great discussion.

Amy Glasscock 15:51

Thank you.

Alex Whitaker 15:53

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