Rolling Back a 90's Remodel (with my recent client Michelle)

As a designer, it's so hard to pick a favorite project, but one I'm talking about today has certainly got to be at the top of my list. I recently covered this house on the YouTube channel, because it's a perfect case study of getting the 90s out of a perfectly nice mid-century home.

In Today's Episode You'll Hear:

• Why a master plan was the right choice for Michelle.  
• How a house can be both in great shape…and in need of an update. 
• Where we were able to integrate Michelle’s original vision with complementary design ideas. 

Get the full show notes with all the trimmings at https://www.midmod-midwest.com/2309

Like and subscribe at Apple | Spotify | YouTube. Want us to create your mid-century master plan? Apply here! Or get my course,  Ready to Remodel.

Transcript

Della Hansmann  00:00
As a designer, it's so hard to pick a favorite project, but one I'm talking about today has certainly got to be at the top of my list. I chatted recently about this house on the YouTube channel, because it's a perfect case study of getting the 90s back out of a perfectly nice mid-century home.
 
Della Hansmann  00:15
That's true, but there's so much more to this story. So today I'm chatting with homeowner, Michelle Crampton about how we took a shell of a house and turned it into her dream retirement home when she literally had to start over from zero after she lost everything but her beloved pets in the Altadena fires last winter. And I am so happy to share her story of resettling back into her hometown of Madison, Wisconsin, and into her mid-century dream.
 
Della Hansmann  00:43
Hey there. Welcome back to mid mode remodel. This is a show about updating mid-century homes, helping you imagine MCM home to your modern life. I'm your host, della Hansmann, architect and mid-century ranch enthusiast. You're listening to Episode 2309 now, if you're looking for some photos of this house, I'm going to take some snaps that I've got. We don't have final photos yet, because the house is still just slightly in progress.
 
Della Hansmann  01:07
The exterior is being finished up as we speak. In fact, in the conversation, you'll hear just a little bit of banging, perhaps that is outside work being done. But I've got some snaps that I've taken on past visits to the house that I'll include. And also, if you'd like to see a bit of the design process, the visual examples of schemes, one, two and three in several areas that we worked on, I'll point you to the YouTube video that I just made about this house as a case study, so that I'll link to in the show notes as well.
 
Della Hansmann  01:35
You can find all of that at midmod-midwest.com/ 2309 but for now, let me get right to Michelle telling you her story of how we met, how we started thinking about this project together, and how it went from there as we explored a master plan package and then took it beyond into a bunch of really fun additional services that let me just stick with her from the beginning right through until now, the last final few details of the house.
 
Della Hansmann  02:02
This has been a really great one to get to follow along closely at every step. So all right, so here I am with Michelle Crampton. We have had such a marvelous collaboration turning your house into a home. And I just thought, as I was doing a case study video about your project recently. Do you had so much to say about the process? I wanted to get you involved. So Hi, there.
 
Michelle  02:25
Hi, hi, Della.
 
Della Hansmann  02:28
It's amazing to have you here, and it's you're probably one of the clients I get to interact with the most because you're here in Madison, and I've been local, yep, and I've gotten to see the project come along at all the stages. But I actually wanted to rewind all the way to the beginning, to the start of our project, yeah.
 
Della Hansmann  02:44
And as I was looking at my records, I realized you actually reached out before everything in your life had changed. So mind if I asked from California, yeah, yeah. What was it that? Why did you pick us? Why did you pick my mounted West Bank?
 
Michelle  02:58
Why did I pick you? So I initially reached out to you when I was still living in California, in Altadena, California, specifically knowing that my retirement from my career, which was based in Los Angeles, was coming up, and I had planned to return to Madison. I was born and raised in Madison, and I had always planned to return, and I knew when I did return that I wanted to buy a fixer upper. I wanted to to buy a project. I wanted to do a mid-century remodel, and I knew I would be able to do that with the proceeds from the sale of my house in Altadena.
 
Michelle  03:42
And I had come across your account on Instagram, and yeah, and when I saw it, and I saw what you were all about, I did, did a little digging. I watched a lot of your I looked at a lot of your posts, watched some of your stories. I was, I was like, Oh my God, she's in Madison. Like, how serendipitous is that, that she's exactly where I want to be, even though I was very aware from your from your posts, that you do a lot of your work remotely. And I was like, well, that's great. That means I can get started while I'm still here, but I it will be local once I've relocated.
 
Michelle  04:16
And that's that was back in, I think it was the fall of 2024, and I didn't have a specific retirement date yet. Yeah, I think it was because I had not, like formalized my retirement plan, but I was so glad I reached out to in advance, because you need you know you were booking clients and I needed to fit into your timeline. So it all worked out that the time that I would actually be retiring once it became official, I could get on your calendar. Yeah, so that's how it started.
 
Della Hansmann  04:46
I remember one of our first, I think our first conversation we were still talking about we might have talked twice in the early days, or maybe we're emailing. I remember you asking about locations in Madison, and we talked about a couple of great mid-century neighborhoods, and then you were excited. To get started. Maybe we had a conversation, and then you waited a little while to sign the proposal.
 
Michelle  05:05
Yeah. Because, as I said, my retirement date was not set yet, yeah. So that's why I waited. And then it very quickly became set.
 
Della Hansmann  05:13
It very quickly became set, and then, and then everything in your life changed. So this was the story I felt like only you should tell when I was describing that you had a really traumatic experience in the middle of already knowing you were coming back to Wisconsin. But then, yeah, yeah.
 
Michelle  05:27
Then the fires. The fires happened. So I, after I signed up with you, I was getting ready to put my Altadena house on the market. I knew what my renovation was going to be based on the sales in my area. I had met with my real estate agent. I was so excited, because everything was just lining up. I'm starting with, you know, partnering with you, everything was lining up based on the comps. That's the word I was looking for.
 
Michelle  05:54
So I knew what my renovation budget was going to be. I had already started looking at houses in Madison. I had already been put in touch with a local real estate agent, and I had looked at so many houses for the past year or two, just because it's fun, right? Because you want to start thinking about your project, and you want to know what options are out there. And I had been told that the Madison real estate market could be very challenging, that it might be a very long time until I find a house.
 
Michelle  06:25
So when I when I initially contacted the local real estate agent, I sent him an example listing, and I was like, this is the type of house I'm looking for, which happened to be a 1975 ranch. I wasn't that familiar with the neighborhood, but the house had everything I was looking for in terms of a renovation project. Yeah. And he got back to me right away, and he said, Well, hey, they have an open house this weekend. Why don't I go check it out? Yeah, and, and I'll, I'll bring you in on FaceTime. And I said, Great.
 
Michelle  06:59
And then I had my high school best friends, my college best friends are all still local. I have family in the area, and they also went to the open house and fell in love with the neighborhood. Fell in love with the house, even though the house was very obviously a project. It had not been touched since the 90s. But every room I saw, I could immediately picture what it could be and how it aligned with my vision.
 
Michelle  07:26
And afterwards, my real estate agent, his name is Tim, said, Michelle, this house, you know, we all have checklists when we're looking for houses, like all of the things that you want. And I had sent mine to him, and he said, this house has everything on your checklist. Why aren't we making an offer? Because again, in my head, I'm like, Oh, I just want him to get an idea what I'm looking for. Head mode, yeah, I had no idea that anything would come up so soon, because everything I'd been told about the market.
 
Michelle  07:57
But when he said this checks every box, and I was like, Oh my gosh, you're absolutely right. Yes, let's make an offer. So we made an offer. The offer was accepted. I knew again, what my renovation was going to be based on what I was going to pay for the house versus what I was going to make in terms of profit of selling my Altadena house.
 
Della Hansmann  08:14
I was days away from closing when the Eaton fire happened in Altadena, California. It was one of the two fires. The other was Pacific Palisades. And my house burned to the ground. Everything I owned burned to the ground, along with my car and my collateral, my collateral for my new house, and I only but I didn't. That didn't occur to me initially, I was I was deflating too, right?
 
Della Hansmann  08:44
Yeah.
 
Michelle  08:44
I was just and I was staying with my friends who evacuated me, and I got a call from the bank, or maybe it was an email, I don't remember, and they said, Oh, we just had a drone fly over your property, because it was getting close to the closing date of my contract on the new house, and they're like, there is no property. There's no property anymore. The drone sees nothing like so suddenly my it was just a bridge loan. I was going to pay it off as soon as I sold my house.
 
Michelle  09:13
But suddenly the crowd collateral for my bridge loan burned, and even though on paper, I was still good for the loan. No bank in the state of California would finance me, given that my collateral burned to the ground, we called everywhere we could possibly call. Thankfully, the sellers of my house gave me a two week extension.
 
Michelle  09:35
My real estate agent put me in touch with a local lender, and I got a mortgage within days. Within days, I got a mortgage for my for my new house in Madison. I was able to close two weeks later than originally planned, but I was able to close. I did not lose the house, although it was very precarious for a few days there, but I was able to close. So I knew going into the project, I got my dream house, my forever house, as I like to say.
 
Michelle  10:00
I just had nothing to put in it. So I because I had some really nice stuff, but at the same time, it was very liberating, because I thought I really get to start from scratch. I don't, I don't have to take what I have now and try and fit it into this house, even though, don't get me wrong, there are pieces and things that I desperately miss and wish I had. But I, like I said, I tried to just look at the silver lining, that this is a blank slate that della and I get to work together to create, and we don't have to factor anything in but what is in our vision.
 
Della Hansmann  10:37
You have always been. I mean, I, like all my clients, I am really lucky. Lovely people come to work with me, and I really value that. But you've always been one of the most positive, like focus on the bright side of things clients to work with.
 
Della Hansmann  10:51
You have to, you have to. Otherwise, it can break you.
 
Della Hansmann  10:59
I would imagine the loan officer you found your real estate agent; the sellers probably were all feeling like I did when I heard what had happened to you, which was like, Oh my gosh. Like, we yeah, we have to, we have to wrap around you and support you in this project and this process. Because what a thing, yeah.
 
Michelle  11:10
And I spoke with you personally just days after I lost everything in the fire, yeah, it was just days and I remember saying to you, well, clean slate. Della, we don't have, I have nothing to put into this new house, but I do have all of the ideas, yeah, that I originally had.
 
Michelle  11:27
And what was so incredible to me at that time is that's when I told you what my vision looked like in my head. And the next step you said, this was January 2025, and I remember you saying, I'll get my drawings to you no later than March, and when I got those drawings, still to this day, I could not believe my eyes, because what I saw in your drawings was exactly what I pictured in my brain.
 
Della Hansmann  11:59
Well, I love hearing you say that, because it's really important to me to be a good listener to my clients and to think about what's the vision and what are the needs. And I think your house is such an interesting project from my perspective, because there were some areas where I think I drew three schemes in your owners suite.
 
Della Hansmann  12:19
We went with almost exactly what you'd had in mind originally. And it was just kind of helpful to sort of rule other things out and be like, Yep, this is it. This is the one in the kitchen. I think we did some more. We did some more balancing. We pulled some pieces in. I think we were able to, well, you told me what you wanted to happen, and we were able to sort of propose three different ways for those goals to all be achieved.
 
Della Hansmann  12:41
But, yeah, I think, I think it was very easy for me, actually, to draw, I forget which scheme we named it, but when I was drawing your owner suite in that way, I was like, I'm just, I'm just giving her.
 
Michelle  12:50
It was mostly scheme one, because you give the three schemes, because one pretty much nailed it, yeah, but we brought in elements of maybe scheme two and scene three, but you touched on something that I want to emphasize as well. It was about you asking me, like, how I was going to use the space. Because I think when a lot of us renovate, we think of what, what is it going to look like, versus how are we going to use it? Both are.
 
Michelle  13:18
And yeah, and that completely changes the way you think about it in that, for example, in my living room, you know, oftentimes you think, oh, I want to set it up so it's set up, so it's conversational, you know. So there's a couch and chairs facing the couch, which is how my last house was, but I was like, maybe, but 95% of the time it's my, like, lounge area.
 
Michelle  13:45
It's like I pictured. I wanted coziness. I wanted a big sectional sofa, because we were going to have this beautiful, built in wall unit that was going to be the centerpiece of the living room. And it's like 95% of the time it's just going to be me and maybe a friend or two, but me and my pets on the couch facing the entertainment unit, not hosting people in my living room, right? You know, sitting around having conversation. So it needs to be what represents 95% of my life, like not 5% of my life.
 
Della Hansmann  14:18
And it's still a place where people can sit and a cup of coffee.
 
Michelle  14:23
Yeah, right, because I know that we really focused on, I said, I want to, I want to host game night, Della, and you ran with that and, and I have since started hosting game nights with my high school and college friends, and my house is the chosen house now for game nights because of the way it's set up. It's just so suited to how I'm living my life in retirement. It might have been a completely different plan if I would have done this 20 years ago, right?
 
Della Hansmann  14:55
Well, our needs change over time, different life stages, different I mean, and the location you're in. Now with a different configuration of the people that you know and love around you, really close. Yes, we, we did have this amazing transitional energy of picturing, what do you want your retirement life?
 
Della Hansmann  15:11
What do you want your new life in Madison to be, coming back as an adult, and then we really got to just design the house as a container for that. Plus, you know, jumping back to I didn't even realize I maybe, no, you know, I think I knew at one point, and it had escaped me that this was your example house, like it should be like this, and then it was, yeah, it was this house, yes.
 
Michelle  15:14
But it's because it wasn't in one of the neighborhoods that you and I initially talked about.
 
Della Hansmann  15:37
But it's in a great neighborhood.
 
Michelle  15:40
I am so happy with this again, I will say, but it goes to you don't always what you what you love isn't always what you thought you were going to love. That's true. I was set on purchasing a house in the areas that we initially talked about. This house just happened not to be in that area, but it matched everything else.
 
Michelle  16:00
So again, it's like, what's the priority? Is the priority? Like, how you want to live your life, or is it where your house is? And it's like, this location actually turned out to be so much better, because it's closer to where my friends live, it's closer to where my family lives, is closer to the dog parks. It's less congested than the areas that I initially looked at. And so if I had, if suddenly today, it's like, okay, you could stay where you are now, or you could go to that neighborhood you were initially wanting to live in, I'm pretty sure I would choose to stay exactly where I am.
 
Della Hansmann  16:33
Well, isn't that? Yeah, I think, I think that actually really speak it's the same thing. Like, what is what do you imagine it looking like? And that can get really dialed in, really specific, but more than that, how do you want it to work? And so we talked about Radio Park, which is one of the sort of yes premier mid-century.
 
Della Hansmann  16:48
All the houses in there, I haven't been in each side, inside each one, some of them may have been damaged in bad renovations in the past, but they were all built as usual boxes. They're gorgeous, but it's also dense. It's there are very few houses there. You'd have to wait years for the right opportunity to come along. And as you say now, you're in a neighborhood that's just outside the Beltline, but looks out into an oak forest and beyond it to the Arboretum. It's stunning.
 
Michelle  17:13
So every house is unique, and it's quiet. Because I said I wanted a wooded lot. I wanted to be I wanted a lot of windows that looked out into the wooded lot, and I wanted to renovate to feature all of that. I don't know that I could have done that in the other neighborhood. But again, it goes back to how did I feel when I saw this house and when I saw the neighborhood?
 
Michelle  17:35
And that's what my friends who went to the open house told me. They were like, Oh my gosh, you're right by the bike trails. My best friend from college said you are never going to want to stop looking out your back window. No, and it was in the middle of winter, gray, dreary, awful. And she's like, you'll never want to stop looking out.
 
Della Hansmann  17:53
It's gorgeous and everything.
 
Michelle  17:54
And, yeah, she was absolutely right. And everything we've done features that.
 
Della Hansmann  17:59
I mean, I think as a person who loves mid-century houses, I'm all for like, find the mid-century house of your dreams, if you can, and move in there. But as a designer, I think one of the magic superpowers that thoughtful remodels gives you is that you don't have to find the house that's perfect. You have to find the sort of container of the house that's perfect.
 
Della Hansmann  18:16
And that, by that, I mean, like, this house was in the right location. It had the right kind of structure. It even had, you know, it was in excellent shape. And some of the design features we didn't change, like, it's got to walk out daylight basement. We didn't have to do a thing to win that. That just existed.
 
Michelle  18:30
Yeah.
 
Della Hansmann  18:31
We polished the basement, and then the interior finishes and the interior layout were both not quite your style.
 
Della Hansmann  18:39
And, you know, always my theory is that the person who did the remodel in the 90s didn't hire a designer because it's nice finishes, but the layout is just kind of odd choices. And so we just had such an opportunity to take that house and turn it in something that had never been before. So we've just sort of made more mid-century greatness in the world, or more mid-century, modern update greatness in the world, which is really fun to have contributed to.
 
Michelle  19:05
But you also said something really important that resonates with me and most likely others. I think oftentimes potential buyers think that or don't. How should I say this? When you said it was in really good shape, I can't remember your specific words, but you said it was, it was in really good shape, but, but yet, it was not updated, right? And so I think some people conflate, like, they think, Well, how can it be in really good shape? If it looks so outdated, it can be. My house is the perfect example/
 
Della Hansmann  19:37
And that's maybe, that's my architect I approach to it, which is, I look at a house like that, and I'm like, the structure is excellent, the location is great. There's no obvious maintenance failures here, and yet everything is shabby and time stamped incredibly out of date. But to me, that just means that's the container of a perfect remodel, is what it is.
 
Michelle  19:52
And so that's what we got. But that's why so many people walked into this house and walked away without making an offer. Because they took one look at it, they knew it needed at least 100 grand in updates in order to be able to move a family in and I welcomed, that's what I was looking for. And so, and I could tell the bones were really good, you know? I that I could keep the footprint and just do the updates
 
Della Hansmann  20:21
right
 
Michelle  20:22
And have it turn out the way it did.
 
Della Hansmann  20:25
Some houses are really improved by a small addition or by a change to the layout. But in this case, we didn't really need to do that. We just, we just shifted spaces around.
 
Michelle  20:33
Except for the three seasons room,
 
Della Hansmann  20:35
Except for the three seasons room.
 
Della Hansmann  20:37
Okay, so let's come back to process. So, yeah, you're right. We talked, we talked. We started before the fire. Then we actually had our first design conversation. Gosh, a week after I was, I think at that time, I was like, if you need to, like, reset and come back, you can, but you wanted to move forward.
 
Della Hansmann  20:54
And I totally understood that desire to, like, get the ball rolling. So I was looking at our design dates, and I think we get your options drawings back to you our solutions package end of February. And then you were super decisive with what you wanted, and we were able to tweak and sort of pull some pieces together from the schemes and have your drawings ready by end of March.
 
Della Hansmann  21:13
And then you had already started to work with your contractor at that point too, I think so we Yes. Demo was in in process, as we were finishing up our solutions package. And I think your project is, it's a perfect example of the way construction could go quickly and slowly, because you got into the house, really,
 
Michelle  21:34
January 30. I had the key.
 
Della Hansmann  21:36
Yeah, you had the key, and then you were living there in and amongst a little bit of ongoing chaos, also relatively quickly, in my opinion, is like averages. No, I know felt like forever to you, yeah, so, well, right?
 
Michelle  21:49
I had the key as a January 30 demo started shortly thereafter. No, I didn't move until August 29
 
Della Hansmann  21:55
Oh, really, okay, I know, I know it felt like a billion years.
 
Michelle  21:58
We didn't have the permit till July.
 
Della Hansmann  22:00
Oh, that's right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we pulled we pulled together a bunch of things, and your process actually went beyond what I typically do with my clients. So we typically hand off at the end of the master plan package. But because you were close and because you were working with your type of contractor is a particular style, I think, of contractors in a couple of categories, like buckets.
 
Della Hansmann  22:24
The smallest is less than the organization you were working with is sort of like a one guy, truck and a dog contractor does little handyman repair projects. They don't do a whole house from scratch like yours. And then there's the more big budget, big polished organization, lots of overhead project manager on site. They do their own drawings, that sort of thing.
 
Della Hansmann  22:43
And you were kind of in that scale in the middle. So it was really handy, I think, to have the ability to just turn around, if there was a question with you and the contractor, to say, like, Okay, we'll see some drawings about that. And then I would, I would get the fun of coming in and giving you a couple of options or just walking through and giving opinions. I'm curious what that process felt like on your end, and what, what if anything felt useful, or what that felt like to you
 
Michelle  23:08
Being local, I think it was very helpful not to discourage people who aren't local, because with today's technology, I don't think that's a big hindrance.
 
Della Hansmann  23:18
I have actually done zoom meetings of that type with other projects, but there's something about being there.
 
Michelle  23:23
Yeah, absolutely, there is something about being there. So that was invaluable to have you available to reach out to your team and just say, is della available for a walkthrough? I want to consider this option versus that. This option, it was very reassuring. Sometimes my contractor would join, sometimes he wouldn't, but, but when he did, that was extremely helpful, because then you could speak directly to my contractor. I didn't have to translate anything.
 
Michelle  23:48
Having your drawings to hand to the contractor for his reference and the subcontractors reference was also incredibly helpful. So all pluses in that way, any issues, weren't on the design part of it. It was more when you're working with general contractors, especially those that subcontract a lot of the work and when there's they're working on multiple projects, you're kind of at their mercy. That's probably the only real downside that I experienced in this project.
 
Michelle  24:28
But that said, it still happened relatively quickly and smoothly, especially when I hear stories from other people and how long their projects. I mean, I did an entire house. I have to keep that in mind, because initially, most people were telling me, not only that it would take me forever to find a house, but even if I found a house, it would be at least a year or two before I could nail down a contractor. Yeah, and I was very fortunate that my real estate agent had a contractor for me from the get-go.
 
Michelle  24:56
So, so big. Picture. Very fortunate things did move along. Being local, having you available to come over to work out issues whenever a question arose, either from me or from the contractor, was really invaluable. But, but mostly, having the drawings, having the plan is the key.
 
Della Hansmann  25:17
Yeah, and we got to go back with your project. I had so much fun filling in more details. Because, you know, typically with our master plan, we focus on the main spaces, and some houses aren't as comprehensively touched as yours, either. So we're thinking about kitchen and how it spreads out into the dining and living area, bathrooms owners bedroom and bathroom specifically, a couple of other spaces.
 
Della Hansmann  25:37
But with your house, we got to do little built in interventions all over the house. At the front door, that great screen wall piece, and then the screen wall going down the stairs that ties it together. And some of those pieces did come later. So we got to do some sketched options once you were in contact with your great built ins team. And that was a really nice collaboration.
 
Michelle  25:57
Loved that team. Oh, great collaboration. That is my favorite part of this house, is all of the built in work. Absolutely such a great I called him an artist. He didn't, he didn't refer to himself as that. He still calls himself a cabinet maker. But I'm like, Oh my gosh, there's so much more than that. He truly a craftsman. But the other thing is, there's a huge difference between drawing things up or designing things before you're living in the house and after.
 
Michelle  26:28
Case in point, one of the things we're still working on is in my in my bedroom, the window treatments, right? So now that I've been in the house for a while, originally I thought, Oh, I'm just going to do drapes. But now I'm in the house, I'm in the house. I'm like, No, I want to warm it up a little bit more. And then we said, Well, what about wood valences to just finish the wood look in this particular area of the bedroom.
 
Michelle  26:28
I saw one of your drawings not related to my project, but I saw one of your drawings that you posted for another project, or maybe just for concept. And I was like, that's what I want to do with the window treatments in my bedroom. So I reached back out to you, having not worked with you for a couple of months, meaning that we just our project was kind of done, but then I was like, But wait, what about this? I want to put some final touches in this area of my bedroom. So that brought us back together, and we were able to tweak things a little bit more.
 
Michelle  27:19
And now that's my focus, all of these finishing touches, so nothing is final. Because I think projects are always evolving. It might just be the time between evolutions. You know, you might not pick it up for another five years or so, or you might do your project in phases. I was fortunate. I was able to do my project all at once, and I'm still just finishing things up, but that said I know if I changed my mind on something a year or two down the road, that that I could do that right, that nothing's permanent, we can always tweak something. And that's the beauty of this.
 
Della Hansmann  27:59
And there's always room to yeah, there's always room to add in more wood, more built in details. And I think you have really done a lovely job. As a challenge you had, somewhat uniquely, was to then live into the house, curating it piece by piece by piece. And you've had so much, yeah, I think you've had fun finding pieces, but it's a job of work to fill in, not just, you know, yeah, clothing and furniture, but all the little objects, everyday things that you need.
 
Della Hansmann  28:27
So you've been over to, where have you been hunting? You've been over to the atomic antique, I'm a regular a lot, and then, and yeah, so you've really, as you've been filling in those pieces. I think that maybe calls up some questions like, what last little details can we add to the bedroom we had so much fun working up those drawings, and this is actually something I do fairly regularly for past Master Plan clients, they'll just come across some area often, when they're in the process of working with a contractor or sometimes a cabinet shop, they'll be like, Okay, so we knew we were going to do something here, and we didn't really have that thought through.
 
Della Hansmann  29:00
So what's going to be the coffee bar situation? Can we see three drawings? You know, what's going to be the way? In your case, should we have wood valence just over the windows, or should it extend from one corner of the room to the other? And what does that look like? And seeing it drawn up? I mean, even I can picture it, I can visualize it. But if I wanted to explain it to someone, I always want to draw it two, three.
 
Michelle  29:20
Because, like me, I'm very visual. But another thing that you encourage and that I appreciate is and it goes to the you don't have to consider a project necessarily finish, because, with regard to my three seasons room, for example, we were talking about window treatments, and something you said to me is you said, Why don't you live in it for a while? Why didn't you just wait and see?
 
Michelle  29:42
Because I am very much a person where I want everything done up front but, but I've learned to move past that, because I have learned to appreciate being thoughtful about things like, Well, I do want to see how it feels after living here for a few months. Maybe I will get that. That, or maybe I won't, but I think that you encouraging that is extremely helpful, because there are a lot of designers or architects that will want everything done right away, and this is your finished project.
 
Michelle  30:13
You know, thanks, bye. But no, I think it's important to encourage this is your home. This is especially being retired. I am here all day, like all the time, as opposed to being at a job for, you know, 810, hours a day. This is, this is my world now. And it is really important you take time to see how something feels and design accordingly. And you encourage that, and I really appreciate that.
 
Della Hansmann  30:42
Oh, well, I I'm so glad you feel like that, because it I mean, that is really central, I think, to my philosophy as a designer, which is some choices, don't it's the bigger picture you need to have in advance. And you were so fortunate to get to do the whole project largely at once. But for some of my clients, who know, because of budget reasons or just because they're living there and it's disruptive, right?
 
Della Hansmann  31:04
 They're going to do one space and then another. They're going to take one bathroom out of commission and then do the next. Knowing where you're going is really important, but there are still some details that you can lock in over time. And I think the thing you just mentioned, which was how some potential for shade curtains on the outside, so not on the inner wall of the house, but there's going to be a three seasons room patio.
 
Della Hansmann  31:24
Yeah, beyond it that it may be that living in the space, the way the sun's going to move through the space, that you never feel a need for privacy shields there. And I don't think you're going to need a need for Sun control there. So it's just a matter of like, if you have a couple of evenings in your life when you look over that and think, you know, I just really wish I could pull a curtain, right? Curtains? Yeah, but you don't need them yet, right? So that's, I think, yeah, knowing what, what's too much, or what might be extraneous, we don't have to, like, do everything, just because we could do everything, we think about what's necessary.
 
Michelle  31:48
And it's also a call back to the point we made earlier. It's not always all about how something looks. I think you need to give equal importance to how something feels. Something might look amazing, but it doesn't feel great, right? What's more important? I mean, there I think, I think both are equally important.
 
Della Hansmann  32:16
They both, yeah, they both work into it. And then there's the sort of the boring part of like, what is necessary, structurally, code wise, you know that. But those three pieces together, yeah, the esthetic of it, the livability of it, and then the practical are essentially necessary to each other. None of them can be, none of them can be a success without the others and this project has been such a fun example of that.
 
Della Hansmann  32:36
So you are, you're nearly done. Your interior spaces are pretty much complete, but now the exterior of the house is getting finished up, and this is such a fun sort of connection point to other things that have happened on the podcast you are doing outside work with Jim Drzewiecki, my lovely friend over at ginkgo leaf studios. How's that been going?
 
Michelle  32:57
Oh my gosh. I am so excited. So you put me in touch with Jim with ginkgo leaf studios. Had a similar experience with him when I initially met him, and I described my vision, and, you know, coming from California, I had an attachment to succulents, and I had no idea whether succulents were even an option here in Madison, into my great surprise Jim's like, of course they are. Of course, they're an option.
 
Michelle  33:21
And just describing to him my vision and having him come up with the drawing, so I clicked with him right away, like I did with you. He came up with this beautiful plan. Got me the drawings. Again, very visual. Drawings always help. And once again, for somebody who I'm a Libra, and usually I weigh every single option, and I have a hard time making decisions. No, I like, with your drawings, I saw them, I'm like, yep, that's exactly it. I saw Jim's drawing, yep, anything you want to change. I mean, I might have done a little tweaks, but my initial response is, nope.
 
Michelle  33:54
Like, this is exactly like what, what I had envisioned in my mind for my yard. So they did the framing of the landscaping last fall, but they're doing the actual plant installation in March, which is right around the corner. So I'm super excited, but grateful they did not already do that, because I do have all of the workers outside doing the siding. We already put the new roof on. We're doing the siding, and so they would be trampling in the lovely landscaping if it was already installed.
 
Michelle  34:27
But no, it's working out perfectly in sequence. As soon as they're done with all of the exterior work, my beautiful landscaping, and it was truly a pleasure to work with Jim. Very talented. Listens like you, listens very intently, doesn't try to impose what he thinks would look great. Gave me options where there were options available and very I mean, after one or two meetings done, the plan was done.
 
Della Hansmann  34:55
Oh, that's great. That's funny that you mentioned your star sign. You're a Libra. Yes. Very much so. And that, you know, I almost wonder, Should I, should I ask? Maybe, for people who know this about themselves, not everyone maybe identifies into this so much. But I do think I was very aware as we were working together, particularly in the product picking phase, where we chipped in a bunch.
 
Della Hansmann  35:17
And often you would either come to us with a couple of options and need some Why should I pick one or the other kind of feedback? Or you'd say, I'm looking at light fixtures, and I don't even know. And so we got into the habit of always sending you, like, three options with reasons why each one might be a good idea, and that, I think, really helped you go, Oh, that one. Because if you could see a couple of things, then you could focus from everything on the internet down to, it's this.
 
Michelle  35:41
Well, it was also because, given my unique circumstances, I think my ability to make decisions was compromised given everything I'd been through. So I got to a point where it was just easier if your team could narrow it down, because by that point, you knew what I liked. We had a very, very taste. And it was so much easier if you could just say, like you said, here are three options. Here are the pros and cons of each. And I got to pick one.
 
Michelle  36:06
And usually I would pick one of your options. There might have been a couple of occasions where I said, Oh, but what about this? Yeah, but, but I was only able to do that because you relieved me. Your team relieved me of the burden of having to try and narrow things down on my own. So that was so incredibly helpful.
 
Michelle  36:23
You have a wonderful team. They also understand your clients style, and that made it so much easier for me, personally, given my circumstances and that my decision making like I just couldn't. There were days I just couldn't make decisions for the life of me. If I was paid. I needed those decisions made for me, and they were great decisions.
 
Della Hansmann  36:44
Yeah, we had, we had a lot of fun. We shared, I mean, we shared with you, originally, the document we share with all of our clients, which is the sort of master spreadsheet it finishes. But I think in your case, we just went a little further and helped fill it in. And so answering all of those questions about this material and that tile and this light fixture, light fixtures for all over the house that coordinated but didn't match, match. Yeah, I really enjoyed that process.
 
Della Hansmann  37:09
Rebecca, who helped me with it, my wonderful Operations Manager, really enjoyed that process. And as you say, we got a really strong sense of you. You also have a very clear taste, which helps us to help you. And we got a really strong sense of what you would like, so we could just give you like. Here you go. Yeah, this whole, this whole process, has been a delight. And I don't mean to single it out against my other clients, because I again, I'm so fortunate. I really love the work we get to do. But this has been a really fun one, and it's great that we just got together, answered a few more questions, talked about that wooden valence issue, and walked through the house and appreciated it together. What was it two weeks ago? Three weeks ago?
 
Michelle  37:50
And I have so many people who are so anxious to see before and after pictures should do you have a project for pictures? Yeah, I have all the pictures from the listing.
 
Della Hansmann  38:01
Oh, great.
 
Della Hansmann  38:02
Yeah. I typically don't share after photos of my projects because with most clients, I don't. I'm not as hands on with all of these final decisions, although, of course, they all reflect your taste as well, but, but this is really a project where we've midnight. Midwest has been touching every part of the process, and it's turned out so well, I was going to ask you mentioned that people come over and they like the house. What other people see when they come to the house? What's their favorite or what stands out for them most?
 
Michelle  38:31
The entry, where we have the wood slats that separate the entry the foyer space from the living areas, but you still see straight through the living room to the beautiful trees in the backyard. Everyone loves. I call them slats. You call them screens.
 
Della Hansmann  38:49
The whole thing is a screen wall, but it's made of slats.
 
Michelle  38:52
Yeah, it's made of beautiful wood slats. That is definitely a feature. In my primary bathroom, yeah, which was formerly remember a 1990s Jacuzzi room like,
 
Della Hansmann  39:04
and just like, felt cold all the time. It looked like it was cold all the time,
 
Michelle  39:08
Even though it faced, you know, it got full sun like almost all day. But there's a the saving grace of that room was the big, beautiful, arched window, right? So even though it was this kind of ugly, very 1990s tiled in Jacuzzi room. It was huge with just the jacuzzi in the corner. That window kept it alive. That window showed its potential.
 
Della Hansmann  39:33
And the elevated ceiling with the wood slats which we kept, we kept both of those and
 
Michelle  39:37
the skylights, yes, everything that we kept. I wish that that whole bathroom, though, people are like, you're I should say the whole primary suite. People are like, this is, this is like, this is like a hotel. Like, this is like a suite. And it's like, yeah, it's a suite. It's my suite. But I. Just think back, it's like this bathroom is bigger than my whole, you know, California real estate. I had a, you know, a 1200 square foot 1948 house that was my Altadena house. And I feel like I have so much more space and mobility in this house, like that whole house could fit in my primary suite now. And that just that makes me so happy.
 
Della Hansmann  40:21
Yeah, yeah, this house, the house itself, again, good bones. It was really spacious and nicely, generously laid out. And then we, I think, did even more to like, make the space flow.
 
Michelle  40:30
The kitchen. I can't limit that answer to your question to just like the entry with the wood slats my bathroom, also the kitchen. The Kitchen isn't because of all the custom cabinetry, and then we have the built in wall unit in the living room. And then the fireplace that we pushed through, that was only a one sided fireplace, and we were originally going to reface the whole brick fireplace, and then I said, No, I want to keep the original brick. And I kind of committed a little bit of a sin. And that I did paint the brick, which normally we don't do.
 
Della Hansmann  41:00
It wasn't painted before, but it was almost it had a very it was what, like white enamel before or something. It just looked dingy.
 
Michelle  41:09
Yeah, it looked dingy. And I wanted to brighten it after we pushed it all the way through, so it was both on the dining room side and the living room side to kind of marry that space. I just, I had seen an example of a mid-century fireplace that looked exactly like mine with painted brick, and I was like, You know what? I'm going to do it. Yeah, this. If I'm committing a faux pas, so be it. But I'm going to do and I do not regret that decision at all.
 
Della Hansmann  41:33
It's stunning. Gave us the freedom to let your mason go ahead, and we didn't have to perfect match in order to get the arch was replicated on the on the dining room side and all of that. So if there was any sort of shift in tone, in the materials, or anything like that, we got that all covered up, and then we did a there's a fun feature of your push through fireplace with this that it's a faux fire with water, with vapor flames. Your cats can wander around it and enjoy the heat source, but have no risk whatsoever, which is great.
 
Michelle  42:03
Yeah, there is actually, there's no heat. It's just, it's just visual, it's just water vapors that look like actual flames. But there's no heat. There's no risk to them. Yet they walk through that fireplace all the time. And you know, I just wanted to minimize any kind of fire risk given what happened? So I actually changed out both fireplaces in the house from well, they weren't wood burning. One was gas burning. Anyway. They're both electric now, but one with water vapors that looks remarkably realistic. It's amazing.
 
Della Hansmann  42:32
It really does. And I've seen that product on the internet a number of times but getting to see it in situ in your house like it looks great.
 
Michelle  42:38
So cool.
 
Della Hansmann  42:39
I would recommend it.
 
Michelle  42:40
I didn't even knew they exist. So kudos to my contractor for that. He's the one that sourced that. I had never seen anything like it, but I'm so happy with it. But back to your original question, like, what do people comment on? They comment on all of it.
 
Michelle  42:52
Della, I mean, honestly, they comment on every single when my the person I'm working with, her name is Bre she's doing my window treatments. She asked if she could take pictures, because she has a design friend, and she loved the guest bathroom. And she was just like, oh my god, this bathroom is, like, amazing. So everybody kind of focuses on a lot of the same but also different areas.
 
Michelle  43:17
So there is no simple answer to that question, because I think something appeals to everyone differently. Oh, because there's just so many great features in this.
 
Della Hansmann  43:25
We really, I mean, we just thought about it so deeply. We meaning you and my team and I, it was, it was, yeah, it was just a joy to work on this whole house. Well, anything, and it's a joy to live the goal. The actual goal is not, I mean, pretty magazine photos are one thing, but enjoying being there on a daily basis is the point.
 
Michelle  43:46
Yeah, yeah. And again, pretty magazine photos. I want to stress. This is, this is, it's a beautiful design. It's a beautiful house, but it's not pretentious in any way. It's like, it's a house like, you know, there are some houses when they're renovated, you walk into and you're afraid to sit down on anything, or you don't want to live in it, because you don't want to mess it up.
 
Michelle  44:06
In my opinion, and I think in my friends, in my guests opinion, this house is not that like you walk in and you want to settle into this house and you want to do exactly what you and I had in mind when we designed this house. You want to hang out in this house? You want to get cozy in this house? Yeah.
 
Della Hansmann  44:25
I love that.
 
Michelle  44:26
It's warm and fuzzy, yeah. So for anybody out there who's like, picturing what this this looks like, it is very pretty. Don't get me wrong, I would be proud to have it on, you know, the pages of the design magazine. But it's also just very relatable and very comfortable and very attainable.
 
Della Hansmann  44:47
Well, and popping over when we were there a couple of weeks ago, we just pulled up chairs. Well, I pulled up a chair. You settled into the booth in your kitchen, and we just had such a nice conversation there. Where do people tend to gravitate to first when they come in and want to sit down? Benches? Is the dining table, the sofa in the kitchen?
 
Michelle  45:04
I would say the kitchen dining room area, because there are so many seating options in that area. I've got the banquet with the round table. I've got the bar seating at the kitchen island, and then right behind that, I've got the dining room table. So I know when I had people over for my birthday, they sat not just in one area, like they all everybody just like, spread out and but we were all still in the same space, even though there were three different areas where everyone was sitting.
 
Della Hansmann  45:31
Oh, that's, yeah, that's really, I mean, I think was one of the major goals of your house, is that it should be a house that holds you perfectly when you're by yourself, but also just welcomes in all your local friends and family. So we did it.
 
Michelle  45:42
We did it.
 
Della Hansmann  45:44
Oh, that's amazing. Well, I can't wait to see what the plantings look like, and you're right. We should come and take some final photos, but I do have snaps for my last couple of visits, so I don't think they have any embarrassing secrets in them. Those can go onto the blog post for this podcast conversation. Certainly
 
Michelle  45:59
okay.
 
Della Hansmann  45:59
You always keep your house so nice and tidy anyway, so marvelous. Well, anything else you wanted to make sure to pass along, or comments, or anything you want to say before we wrap up?
 
Michelle  46:08
Just don't fear the renovation. Just, I think that is the key, is especially if you are able to partner with someone like you, della and your team. And I also have to say, maybe this is my California frame of reference, but very reasonable. Your, your fees are extremely reasonable for what you do, yeah, and, and there are different variations to the packages that you offer.
 
Michelle  46:40
So I think your fees speak to all different projects, like small scale, larger scale like mine. And I love the flexibility that you and your team have to adapt to the needs of your client, and again, your availability and your guidance. And just again, what impressed me the most is how you and your team took what was in my head so easily and put it on paper, and if that was my experience, I can only imagine how many other clients of yours have had similar experiences. I know that my project was not a one off.
 
Michelle  47:15
So if there's anybody like on the fence with like whether or not they should reach out, or should they do it on their own? Or should they, you know, partner with a team. If you can partner, partnership is always, is always the best option.
 
Della Hansmann  47:30
I can't. I can't thank you enough for your kind words in that way. And it's really important to me to be a good partner. I know that there are other design philosophies, and some people are looking for maybe a bit more of a just someone to come in and stamp their vision on a project, and if that's what you're looking for, well then I'm probably not your girl, but I really believe as a designer that my job is to listen and then to try to reflect back and also to enhance the sort of goals of my clients.
 
Michelle  47:59
And yes, you could not have produced this project without having that skill set, the listening skill set. That's what I think was really key to the success of my project.
 
Della Hansmann  48:10
Wow, that's great to hear. Because that was honestly, I mean, I think back to I was I just did a something that referenced some of my, like, blog content from 2019 and I was like, this is really what I was trying to do. What I was trying to do when I when I decided I was going to make a business of this.
 
Della Hansmann  48:25
I wanted to be accessible to people. I wanted to help people navigate the process of working with contractors and making all the decisions of a remodel. And I wanted to help people make homes. So this is an example of that.
 
Michelle  48:38
You have done that for sure. Goal achieved.
 
Della Hansmann  48:42
Well, I’m so glad to see you so well, settled back in Madison and enjoying this next phase.
 
Michelle  48:49
Thank you, Della, and thanks to your team.
 
Della Hansmann  48:51
Oh, well, you are so welcome.
 
Della Hansmann  48:56
This house, this entire project was really such a joy to work on. And as I think I said in my YouTube intro to the case study, I take every design project very seriously as an architect, but I could not help feeling even more emotionally engaged to do my utmost for Michelle when I learned what had happened to her previous home.
 
Della Hansmann  49:12
The results, I think, speak for themselves. The entire experience was a lovely one for me, and I'm so glad to hear that she enjoyed it as well. If you want some visuals to go along with our chatty check in, go to the show notes page at mid mod. Dash midwest.com/ 2309 I'll include some photos of how the project has been coming along, and also some sketches from our design process that I think you'll find interesting.
 
Della Hansmann  49:35
And then, just by coincidence, next week, I'm going to be having my dear friend Jim Drzewiecki of ginkgo leaf studios, back of the podcast, he's done the exterior work the landscape design for Michelle's house. In the meantime, so we've got a bunch of great conversations, interviews lined up in the near future, and I'm looking forward to asking Jim about any special insights or notes he has on Michelle's project from his design perspective, that. It's all for now, mid mod remodelers, catch you next week.