Hands-On Kitchen Design with Aletha VanderMaas

Kitchen design is a hands-on endeavor. 

That's why my friend mid-century Kitchen Designer Aletha VanderMaas takes every one of her clients on a field trip as part of her design process. And while my virtual process doesn't allow for IRL shopping trips, I encourage every client to collect physical samples and "meet" their finishes before choosing them. 

In Today's Episode You'll Hear:

• Why you need to experience your finishes as part of the design process. 
• Which elements will ensure your kitchen feels “mid-century”.
• When, according to Aletha, bigger might be better in a kitchen. 

Get the full show notes with all the trimmings at https://www.midmod-midwest.com/2402

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Want us to create your mid-century master plan? Apply here! Or get my course,  Ready to Remodel.

Transcript

Della Hansmann  00:00
No amount of internet research, Pinterest boards or saved magazine photos can substitute for putting your hands on an object to know if it's right for your home, especially your kitchen. That's why my friend mid-century Kitchen Designer Aletha VanderMaas takes every one of her clients to her favorite local appliance store as part of the design process, they can look at different configurations, see how it feels to open and close each door. Compare cooktops with built in ovens versus those that come separately.
 
Della Hansmann  00:23
Although that's not part of my remote design process, I will never stop singing the song of put your hands on a real word object before you buy it. As we dive deeper into mid-century kitchens this season, I really wanted to loop in Aletha, because her perspective is so valuable for great kitchen updates. You probably already follow her on Insta and have spotted her updates in atomic ranch. So let's get her take on how to do right by a mid-century kitchen.
 
Della Hansmann  00:46
Hey there. Welcome back to mid mod remodel. This is a show about updating MCM homes, helping you match a mid-century home to your modern life. I'm your host, della Hansmann, architect and mid-century ranch enthusiast. You're listening to Episode 2402. A couple of quick things before we dive in. If you want to hear my first conversation with Aletha, you should go back and check out episode 2107 it's from sometime last summer, August, maybe. Really the first time we'd ever got to chat together in depth on the podcast, as opposed to just constantly sending each other little kudos on Instagram.
 
Della Hansmann  01:22
But Aletha is wonderful, and if you want to hear a little bit more about her mid-century villain, vintage origin story, that's the spot to go. Also, if you are excited about kitchens right now, and what you want really is help to plan for yourself a cohesive upgrade to your own, don't miss my upcoming live mid-century kitchen clinic, happening again by popular demand. Two weeks from this Saturday.
 
Della Hansmann  01:44
You can go sign up for that weekend workshop where I will take you through a mini Master Plan process, step by step. Help you sort your layout, set your style guide, and share dozens of real world examples from kitchens I have redesigned by heading over to mid mod dash midwest.com/clinic.
 
Della Hansmann  01:58
Don't wait to sign up because there's an early bird price in effect right now, get it at the discount and get it on your calendar for May 16. Okay, so without further ado, I'll just remind you that you can always find the show notes with the transcript and the references that we're making in the episode on my website at midmodmid-west.com/ 2402 in this case, and today that will certainly include a bunch of photos of Aletha’s past kitchen designs. So do not miss that link. All right, let's get into it.
 
Della Hansmann  02:29
There's really no one better to talk about mid-century kitchens with than Aletha VanderMaas of true home restorations, because this is at least. I mean, are all of your projects kitchens? At least half of your projects are mostly kitchens. Kitchens are one of the most important places to get right, right?
 
Aletha VanderMaas   02:49
I think so. Yeah, you can change the paint and everything else, but it's hard to change most in your kitchen. For sure.
 
Della Hansmann  02:56
That's, yeah, that's really true, because I think that there are so many. I mean, we treat a lot of house bits as disposable these days, but there are so many big, permanent expenses and interlocking choices in a kitchen. It's the place, if any, that you have to get it right on the first try. Just before we started recording, you were telling me that you think one of the reasons that people come to you most with kitchen and bathroom questions is because that's the most confusing. And kind of, maybe contractor involved part of it, what? What's the thing people tell you when they when they pick up the phone and call you, or when they send you an email? We've tried x and we got stuck, so we called you, because...
 
Aletha VanderMaas   03:37
I feel like most people are like, Hey, I saw your work, and it's exactly what I want. I just don't know how to get it right. I've been to the big box store; they don't have anything like that. I just don't understand. And, you know, for someone like you or I, it's so simple because we continuously do the same thing, and we're passionate about just keeping it simple and honoring the house. So it's not so difficult, but they feel very overwhelmed. And we know that the internet is full of so many ideas, and it is overwhelming to look for all those ideas.
 
Della Hansmann  04:13
It is plus the internet is many more full, or certainly like if you're specifically looking for advice. If you Google kitchen renovation project, most of what you're going to see is not geared towards a mid-century home, right? Maybe even if you Google mid-century kitchen renovation, most of what you see is not actually geared towards mid-century home.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   04:35
It's true. Yeah, even things that you see in magazines that they call mid-century I'm like; I don't know if you got this right, but okay, I see it a little bit.
 
Della Hansmann  04:44
I've been talking about this a bunch recently in various places, because I think that the search term mid-century has been kind of polluted by capitalist sales mechanisms. Realized it was a good way to get people to buy stuff, so they just put mid-century in front. It like they would say unique, which is also a word that's become meaningless. No one actually means there's only one of something when they call it uniquely beautiful.
 
Della Hansmann  05:09
And so yeah, it's a dangerous thing to just not that people can't do their own research, not that you can't observe and study and think about it, but if someone is looking to shortcut the process of getting their kitchen right. A designer is always a good place to go.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   05:24
Yeah, I know I spoke to a group of Realtors years ago, like 10 years ago, and at the time, I had gotten a mailer in the mail from a big box furniture store, and it was like mid-century modern and I'm like, you sell a very affordable, mass produced.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   05:42
And I'm like, This is crazy that they think this is, and I know that it's like a nod to modernism and all these things. But I just thought, if this store is sent the new Realtors should know what we are talking about. If this furniture shop is sending me these things in the mail in like that's really interesting.
 
Della Hansmann  06:03
I do feel like I wish you and I could somehow loop it. There are some great midcentury Focus realtors out there, but I do feel like I go to an open house in my own neighborhood. The houses are all adorable, little time capsules. They're starting. I think every house on my long block has now turned over, but when they were still original owners in some of these houses, they were time capsules. They were adorable.
 
Della Hansmann  06:28
And I would go in and the realtor would be, like, completely bored, checked out on their phone, and I would start to talk to them about the house, and they would say, like, Oh yeah, well, it's gonna need a lot of work. And I'm like, are you talking about this mid-century time capsule? Tell people be promoted, sell people on this. That's your job, right?
 
Aletha VanderMaas   06:48
Yeah, I walked through a house in town a couple weeks ago, and I had to actually leave because the comments of the other people walking through the house was, well, I have to cut this whole thing. And I was like; this is a time capsule that needs a ton of work and needs to be restored. But you blow this, this wall out, this is, like, the supporting wall of the fireplace. I'm like, I gotta get out of here.
 
Della Hansmann  07:09
Yeah, yeah. I've started to get people in my DMs will, will talk to me about, like, fines. They have, they'll be in an estate sale, or they'll, they'll be like, I got this amazing set of vintage windows. And then the story always continues that it's like, it's a flipper who's gutting the house. And so they gave this to me for a song. And I'm like, This is great story for us, but the story of this house is making me so sad.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   07:33
Yeah, that
 
Della Hansmann  07:35
it's, yeah, it's a lot. So when somebody comes to you and says, You I want what you're doing. Obviously, though they might look at a picture you've done in a magazine and think that's exactly what they want, but you can't copy paste one house onto another, so there's more of a process of personalization and sussing out like which parts of your design they really like. How do you approach taking getting to know someone and helping them go through the process of figuring out what a kitchen really involves.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   08:06
Yeah. So each kitchen I do approach the same way, we start with the layout ideas, which I think you focus mostly on. So there's three parts to my kitchen process, and the versus the layout. So just tomorrow, actually, I'm going to this new client's house. I'll measure out the room, get all the measurements of where the windows are and how high they are, and the ceiling height and all this, and where the openings are to the other spaces. And then I'll present them with, hopefully three unique, maybe slightly different plans, depending on how I can fit it all in that space, which I'm sure we all do, as far as that part goes.
 
Della Hansmann  08:44
Yeah. Three is my magic number two. It's easy for people to decide if they can say no, kind of Yes, and then we can sort of pull the pieces in.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   08:52
Yeah, exactly. And then they're like, Oh, I like this, but I don't like it there. And so we'll just play around. We'll kind of, you know, get it all narrowed in, and then by the time we have a final layout, we will my, I will have one of, at least one of my wood guys come over my cabinet makers, and get a price together for cabinets, for just the cabinets, not everything else, just get cabinets going, because that's could be a scary number, right?
 
Aletha VanderMaas   09:16
Like when I started, I would say I could do a kitchen, a small kitchen for $15,000 in cabinets, really easily 1012, years ago. I mean, I think my kitchen cabinets were under $10,000 and I have a pretty large kitchen. Yeah, it's lovely. It's lovely, yeah, but it was just, you know, so many years ago now, and all of the other factors that make things expensive, but labor and materials have gotten more, but materials and labor and all the bits and bobs, but now I would say a smaller kitchen is going to be closer to 20 to 25 again, just for cabinets.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   09:55
That's not the poles, that's nothing, that's not a countertop, that's nothing else. But I have had cabinet. I've had kitchens with 50 or 60 cabinets, like enormous ones, and of course, those are like 40 to $50,000 yeah. Sometimes in this particular new client that I start with tomorrow, she has a general contractor that uses a kitchen and bath store. So we are also going to go to that Kitchen and Bath store, they have some lovely options, and then kind of just compare pricing.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   10:25
As far as you know, semi ready-made. I'm sure they're not ready made, but a custom, a semi-custom option from the store, versus doing something custom. And I'm totally fine with whatever the client wants to do. I just, like we talked about earlier, I want to give everyone all the options and have them compare the pricing. So she came over to my house a few weeks ago because I don't have, like a showroom with all of my kitchens in them to see my kitchen, and then I explain exactly how mine is.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   10:55
So I have a full overlay Euro hinges, soft. You know, everything is soft close, the slab, door, you know, all of the things I have, just birch so birch overlays, but just exactly what that is. Because I don't think unless you've done a kitchen, or you work in the industry, somehow you know all those terms, and I think spit all that out, thinking everybody just knows what that means. They really don't.
 
Della Hansmann  11:21
And I think if people know about cabinets at all, they're like, I want shaker, or I don't want shaker. And it's like, yes, that is, that is one decision. But it's also funny, and we were talking about this again when we were chatting before we started recording, about the difference between like, a truly vintage mid-century kitchen, which has a completely different style of door hinge cabinet construction to a modern one, and that still, they can have a lot of esthetic transference, but you get the advantage of letting someone come and, you know, open and close the doors and see how your kitchen actually works and how it's held up over a decade, which is nice to see as well.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   11:57
Yes, I did show them all the I have all the Reva shelf inserts. So rubber shelf makes all those beautiful maple inserts. I think they also make them in maybe aluminum or something, but I have the maple ones. So this is this drawer. This holds my knives. This is how my pots and pans are in this I don't have any uppers in the cab in the kitchen, so all of my glasses and all my dishes are all in drawers, so just showing them how that all lays out and how it's like, not a scary thing, like what you have no uppers.
 
Della Hansmann  12:30
This is so this is wonderful, because this is actually getting to the place where our experience and our like, skill sets really diverge. I don't ever get to I don't I don't really take people past that point. A lot of the work that we do is in schematic layouts, and we think about the esthetics. But I'm often working remotely. Nobody. My house is too dusty for clients. Sorry, clients only this room is worth being seen.
 
Della Hansmann  12:57
But that is I'm constantly pitching the idea of, if we're not going for a time capsule, look if we're updating, as well as upgrading, I want to get rid of as many upper cabinets as possible. And people get scared by that, but I'm like, no drawers. Drawers are your friend, and you taking them sort of from schematic through to every product selection you can really show them, like this knife organizer, this way to keep cups in a drawer. It works. And here's the proof that's wonderful. That's such a an extra lift.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   13:27
Yeah, I feel like I started doing that a long time ago. And of course, you're like, okay, the rest of the house feels like it has to be show ready, you know, because you're like, you're coming to find hot. It's usually, of course, on the weekend, because that's what works. I live about 45 minutes for most of my clients. I'm out on the lakeshore. Most of my clients are in the Grand Rapids area. So it's always like, if you can make it all the way out to Grand Haven, you're welcome.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   13:51
And then most people say, like, yeah, I want to see it like that sounds like great. And you're right. I can show them how things have held up. Oh, I don't want that little beep to happen anyway, um, I yeah, just all those things where you're like, I would tell you all of these things, but I'd really love to show you how all this works. So, yeah, that's and that is nice to do. That's really fun.
 
Della Hansmann  14:15
And I think when people wonder, what's the difference between an architect and someone who specializes interiors, what? What's your title that you prefer to use, specifically?
 
Aletha VanderMaas   14:25
I just say I'm a designer. I don't even say interior designer, because I feel like I could definitely help someone with the outside design house. I'm definitely not an architect, obviously not a schooled or trained architect. I mean, I went to school for fashion, so that's always funny. People doing graduate design. I went to art school. So, you know, all those things I don't know, just kind of all fell into place.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   14:52
But it's definitely, I just say I'm a designer, and then when they ask, like, What do you mean? I'm like, Well, I do this very small niche. I work on mid-century, home. Homes I can do into inside exterior. I'd love to be a little more knowledgeable and landscape design. I don't want to be a landscaper at all, but I just wish I could throw out a few like period appropriate, also native plants would be really helpful.
 
Della Hansmann  15:17
I this is where I think it's so fun to sort of think of our Venn Diagram of bubble overlaps, because I've got a friend who's based over in Milwaukee who is a landscape architect, and I have him on the podcast a bunch, and when he starts to talk about all of the different factors of not just the physical and spatial layout of things, but seasonal orientation and light and scale and like the right green in the foliage, my eyes just glaze over, and I'm like, Okay, well, this really is an entirely different discipline, and I will just recommend people to you.
 
Della Hansmann  15:51
But, and at the same time, there are places where we absolutely intersect and overlap, and it's really fun, but, but, yeah, I think people often ask me about that sort of the end point, like, will we choose every all the storage drawers? And I'm like, not, not with me. It won't. So it's an interesting point to be able to get into the specifics of that. Yeah. But also, yeah, how do you Well, I don't know when I actually under end up having such an introvert, but I have, like, extended family visiting my parents, and they're gonna come over. So then I panic clean everything. It's like, the only time everything gets cleaned around here. Maybe your whole house is cleaner all the time.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   16:25
Well, I have children, so that is not true, but I am an extroverted, extrovert, so when people like walk by and they're like, I really like your house, I'm like, Oh, come on. I mean, it's not perfect, but you'll get the gist. I mean, people pick up things on marketplace, Facebook, marketplace, all the time. They're like, Oh, I love your house. I'm like, oh, peek inside, we just repainted. And they're like, Okay, yes.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   16:48
It sounds like we are opposite in that, in that factor. But yes, for sure, I love showing off the house. It's fun, because I think a lot, especially in where I live, and maybe it's in your small neighborhood too. People have lived there for so long. Many of the people are be like, I they'll say to me, I've always loved your house. I've lived here since I was a little girl, and I used to drive by and I just loved it. I'm like, Well, come on in. You've lived here for 45 years, and you've never been inside.
 
Della Hansmann  17:18
I I'm getting your extrovert personality here, yeah, well, but it's lovely. And also your house is, like, notably cool. It's cool from the outside, it's cool from the inside. It's got that amazing brickwork, which you have highlighted, and it's got, yeah, your house is the kind of house people remember having always driven by. And there are others in my neighborhood that are like that, that if I was more of an extrovert, I would have gotten myself invited into mine is entirely modest, but I love it, and it is only for me.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   17:49
I would say most of my clients have more modest houses, though, that you wouldn't know that were you would know when they were built based on that how they look and then the rest of the neighborhood, but you wouldn't be like, Oh, that's probably cool inside. You're just like, oh, it's like a grandma ranch. And then you walk in and you're like, This is amazing. I mean, I say this is amazing. I don't know what other people say, but I'm always like, This is so great. And they're like, Oh, I've never even noticed this thing.
 
Della Hansmann  18:16
It's kind of fun, though, to go into someone's house and, like, not mansplainage them, but mid-century splainage them like this is a really unique feature. We don't make things like this anymore. This is of a wood grain or quality that is not included in a modern house. So I think it helps people sort of appreciate what they have and like it a little bit more.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   18:37
Yeah, yeah. Oh, I think I love tiled windowsills. I think those are so cute and unique and practical. And our friend just posted a cute picture the other day, and it was, it wasn't of the windowsill, but I was like, I love your windowsills. She was like, Oh, it's so funny. I don't even think about them anymore. I like them, but no one ever has said anything about that. And I'm like, Oh, they're so cute. I love them so much. You appreciate them.
 
Della Hansmann  19:03
Yeah, absolutely. So when you have a new client that come to your house, they see your kitchen is that? Is that sort of the easiest way to do the whole like, these are the qualities. These are the these are things we'll do, tile finishes, cabinets.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   19:17
We don't really talk too much about the finishes. I mean, obviously they can see I have a quartz countertop and I have a tile backsplash. The next part after doing layout is I actually go appliance shopping with them, right? So like fun, we go to the appliance store and we look, there's one really great one in town that has high to low price range. So we're not like only looking at fancy stuff. We're only looking at low end stuff. They just have a really great big showroom.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   19:41
And so we'll go through that, and then I can show Hi. I'm a little particular about how I like the range and the cooktop and the oven to be installed. I depending on the size of their kitchen. So I like to show them those very I'll show them photos before. Hand, and obviously explain the pricing difference. But then we see it in person, and they get to decide. And then, of course, they can buy them from a big but I don't care where they end up buying them from.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   20:11
I don't like make money on the appliances, so, but we do talk about all that, and we see it all in person, and then they can kind of sleep out, and then we'll get a quote from the sales rep and, you know, get that all going. But, yeah, it is nice to show them. I'm I have, let's see, I have second hand, a few secondhand appliances in my own kitchen, and then the other ones are super-duper simple and really affordable ones.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   20:35
So, like, I have a, yeah, so they're not like, I have a fancy fridge that was second hand, but then I have, like, a $500 cooktop that's just from Whirlpool, that works just fine. So it's just one of those things where you're like, This is what I have, but you guys can do whatever you want, but here, here are the options, and I walk them through that.
 
Della Hansmann  20:54
So what are your, what are your favorite thoughts, or what is, what is key to you in setting up a cooktop? Do you ever recommend a range? Or do you always do a cooktop in a built in oven separately?
 
Aletha VanderMaas   21:03
I prefer the cooktop with the built in oven below it, because I love how the countertop doesn't have a break and it's just looks this cleanest. I think right a mid-century kitchen would normally have a separate cooktop and then a double oven or a single oven, and then maybe whatever, but they wouldn't have a microwave. So I'm always trying to build that stinking microwave into somewhere.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   21:28
Yeah, I like it in a double oven, look, but the top is the microwave so and that doesn't want everyone's kitchen. Of course not. I lot of just in in a pantry, afford, like, cheap, like countertop microwave on a special just, you know, yeah, just tucked into the pantry. Or I've, I've done a few microwave drawers, which are super handy.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   21:51
I don't love the look of them. They kind of take away that beautiful wood you'd have on the front, but they're, they work great, and if that's what they want, we'll figure that out. So, yeah, I think it's just nice to go through those things with people. Obviously, by now, I have so many kitchen photos I can show them, but when we go to the appliance store, I can show them in real life, and then obviously I can show them in my own kitchen, so.
 
Della Hansmann  22:14
And there's something nice about we do. We do so much studying things online and looking at photos. But if you're there in person with someone, you can open and you can close and you and you can close, and you can feel it, and you can see the scale of 30 inches versus 36 inches.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   22:30
Yeah, I messed up my I wish I had a 36 inch cooktop, and that's one, and I have the space for it. I just didn't think I needed it. And now, when I have three pans going, I'm like, and which isn't every day. I'm not, like, some fancy chef making three pans of food all the time, but you're cooking for five so, oh, that actually, my spouse does way more cooking than I do, but it's just one of those things where you're like, oh yeah, this three inches on each side would have been really great. So I can't really change that easily, so it's not changing.
 
Della Hansmann  23:03
That's, again, one of those decisions that, like, you can repaint the walls every six months if you want to, but sizing up your appliances is a challenge, I think, which doesn't necessarily mean everyone should have the biggest possible appliances, but it does mean going and thinking about them in person is a good idea if it was me, if it was my mother, I would recommend, hi, mom. I bet you're listening. I'd recommend she bring her favorite pan to the kitchen store and try it on there, because that's the best way to know the scale. And if it's gonna work.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   23:35
sure, yeah, I have a big skillet that I use a lot, and then the other Yeah, it just gets crowded real quick. I'm like, you're making rice and veggies and then whatever. You're like, Oh, dang, I'm out of space.
 
Della Hansmann  23:45
Absolutely. Yeah, I was, this is so off topic, but I was just reading about the, not maybe the innovation, but the sort of the moment when the continuous countertop came in. And it was really it came out of the Bauhaus movement in early modernism in Europe. And it came because in that moment, their most primary concern like, what made a house good, what made living better, was that it was safer from illness, from disease, because they just come out of the original flu pandemic.
 
Della Hansmann  24:17
And so they were like, how can everything be completely antiseptic, and there's no place for germs to get trapped. And so they love the idea of a continuous countertop. It was kind of being weighed against the idea of more ergonomic designs, that everything could be the right height, and you would have like custom you could adjust them to the to the homeowner or to different tasks. But the continuous countertop concept popped in at that moment, and just like, people have loved it ever since, because it's so pretty.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   24:46
It is and clean. Yeah, I definitely have seen it where, like, you would make bread on this countertop, and then you would, you know, so at this countertop and like, those are up and down. Yep, I know what you're talking about for sure.
 
Della Hansmann  25:00
Anyway, yeah, okay, so you'll take them to the appliance store, and then what happens next?
 
Aletha VanderMaas   25:05
So then the next step would be the design of it, which I know that you don't do, but then that's where I take over. No, I don't take over. I just also do that. So I usually give them a few different colors for wood grain. If they're unless we're matching something specific in their house already. So if someone has, like, wood everywhere, I'm like, You know what the best choices here is all the other wood then.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   25:27
So we do wood and then we do really the backsplash is a big deal. I think that's a really great way to add color. And I do think that a tile backsplash modernizes it immediately, right? Like no, most mid-century kitchens had a laminate backsplash, so that, at least in Midwest, yeah, in the Midwest, most time capsules that go in the market have the original laminate that just goes all the way up the wall.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   25:53
So I always tell them, this is going to be an instant modernization. There's no like period appropriate way to do a tile backslash. I have seen four by fours. I've seen two, maybe two by twos, like little mosaics. But not, not in so many commonly with, like, yeah, it was laminate. So that's, in my opinion, that's a great way to like, immediately be like, this is the fresh part of this mid-century inspired Kitchen. So we, I would say the color of the cabinet Gray, or the wood, and then the back splash are the first two things I start with, color wise, and then counter tops. We kind of do last because there's really not a ton I, I have only done maybe one colorful countertop, and it was blue. It was amazing. Oh, that's maybe not true.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   26:44
I've done a few colorful countertops. So laminate, not, not like, not like a blue quartz, that would be really weird. I would not do that personally, but I have done a few funky, cool, retro inspired laminates over the years, but nothing, just one bright blue one, which was cool, and that was actually the original kitchen's back laminate. So we were just playing off what was original.
 
Della Hansmann  27:07
That's fun, nice, like, nice and loud, back to the original choice.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   27:10
Yeah. That was really fun. And he was all in on what was there. So we did a good recreation of that kitchen, like down to the rick rack over the kitchen sink, or whatever is gingerbread. I don't know what it's really called.
 
Della Hansmann  27:21
Oh cute. Yeah, very cute. Really, just a wooden valence to hide the horrible fluorescent light that was probably there originally.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   27:29
Exactly, yeah, so we but otherwise, the countertop kind of comes into play last I feel like there's three directions you can go. I usually, I honestly use quartz. I have been reading about how terrible it is for the workers that manufacture and polish the ports down. I love the idea of stone, like marble or something, but I honestly have never even priced that out. So I can't say like, Oh, it's so expensive, or Oh, it's so this or that. I don't know.
 
Della Hansmann  27:57
Well, it's not very it's not a very well performing material, like it's hard to keep nice, and it takes a stain really easily. It's too porous, really, for countertop. I don't know why people hooked into it so powerfully, but yeah, I don't recommend it for mid-century kitchens either.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   28:13
Now I do use quartz, even though maybe it's not the most eco-friendly option. But of course, I'm hoping they keep these quartz countertops until the end of time. So it's not like, oh, and eventually you'll replace them again like that. That's not where I want to go anyway. So, and then, of course, all the fun, the more fun aspects of the kitchen you have, the lighting and the seating and the knobs, let's see the faucet, the sink, all those more smaller details, but still make up the whole design.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   28:40
I put together again, three options, usually, oh, really, yes, three whole looks that I can picture, and oh, and also the color of the metal. So black, yeah, really popular for a time. So I usually include a black even though it's still not my favorite. I think it looks sharp. I just think it's going to look really dated. So a brass like your, I can see your cute doorknob behind you, over your shoulder, like a, I don't know what is that like, an unlacquered Brass. That's, yeah, that kind.
 
Della Hansmann  29:11
That's original to the house. I bought this house for its doors and doorknobs.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   29:16
Perfect. You did great. And so that color a brighter brass, and then a chrome or a satin nickel or whatever, you know, something un not shiny, but polished or whatever. So, yeah, give them those options, and then we kind of narrow it down, just like we did with the layout, right? So it's like, Oh, I really like this backsplash color, but I like the backsplash shape of that one.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   29:37
I think I'm going toward Chrome, but this brass is interesting. And then I get all the samples to them. So we will go to the I use Ferguson usually, and we go our, our local has a really great bath and kitchen. So all, mostly, all the faucets seem like they're there. All the sinks are there. So again. Usually order them online from Ferguson, but we can see them in person before we do that ordering.
 
Della Hansmann  30:06
What's your go to kitchen sink for a mid-century kitchen?
 
Aletha VanderMaas   30:11
just depends what the client wants. I'm a little so I'm maybe you've heard me say this, I have two small sinks like and that was a giant mistake. My big sink is only 22 inches wide. Yeah, that's not so it's so small. I mean, I can get one big pot in there, but you can't get, like, I would do at least a 30 inch sink if I were to do it again. And I would probably do a 36 because I have a big kitchen.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   30:40
That would have been fine, but I have a 30, or I'm sorry, a 22 inch sink, and the other one, I think, is only 15. The one in my island is small, and that is actually perfect. That's a little prep sink we wash, you know, berries off and our hands, and you're not like prepping food there. But the other one is way too small. So I just have a plain, actually, mine are just from IKEA. I just have plain they're two squared off sinks that they had stainless my eye.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   31:07
Doing it again for myself, I would do one of those sinks that has the ledge and has all the built ins. I love that sink. I have seen people have them over the years, and maybe they haven't like dried them off. So the wood insert is looking kind of ratty and it like needs to be oiled. So, like, if that's not for you, then just do a plain sink. Like, don't, but they have that cute little colander insert. We would use that all the time, so I just know that that's what I would do if it had been available 14 years ago when we did our house.
 
Della Hansmann  31:42
It's again a tricky thing to change out without changing your entire countertop. So it feels like that's one of those domino effect choices that, if not made correctly, once you have to change so many things in order to change it just gets overwhelming. Take time.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   32:00
I had a client a few years ago do a really cool composite sink that was, like, a really beautiful, I don't know, like, a taupe color, and then we did lighter countertops. And I'll be honest, I was like, I don't know about that, like, that's but she was set on the sink, and it came in, and it really was beautiful. And from afar, when you're looking at like the whole thing, you don't see that. It's darker. It was really lovely. And I would use it again for someone else, so
 
Della Hansmann  32:28
Interesting.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   32:29
And I think there were no seams. I don't remember how it was installed, but anyway, it looked really nice. And, you know, some people or use something before at a different house that they used to have. So they have a specific like, oh, even cork flooring. I had never installed pork for anybody.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   32:48
And then all of a sudden, a few years ago, I had all these kitchen these clients saying, Oh, we love cork. I'm like, okay, good, because I wanted someone to do cork so I could maybe recommend it. And one person have a few issues with theirs, but the other people be extremely happy. And so I'm like, I mean, I don't know. So.
 
Della Hansmann  33:08
Yeah, well, and my feeling on flooring is, it really depends on your lifestyle and your preferences. And so some people are like, I need a bomb proof kitchen floor that nothing can ever injure. And I'm like, yeah, it's, it's gonna be tile. Then that's great. Polished concrete, if you want. But for people who drop their dishes all the time and also don't leave a lot of water on their floor, a cork floor is great because your feet will like it, and so will your cups and your knees.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   33:33
Yeah, for sure.
 
Della Hansmann  33:37
That's really fun. Yeah. I mean, with when we're working with clients. We do. We don't take them through all the product selection. We do. Put together a style guide, actually relatively early in the process, where we talk about wood grain and metal color and things like that. But it's, it's just a suggestion, and then people have to go track down their own choices, with their local contractor and with the suppliers that they have access to. I suppose Ferguson is pretty universal these days.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   34:03
Yeah, for sure. I also so saying all that I source every single item for a client, and they get a document with every single thing. So even though I source this from Ferguson, they can buy it at the Home Depot if they want, right? I don't this is the one I would do. Here's the size, here's the color. If you can find it cheaper somewhere else, that's totally fine. I don't do any purchasing on behalf of clients.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   34:29
My own business is just my what I take in for my design fees, and then they and then I, I've never really had issues with that. I know some traditional interior designers will take, like, the whole $100,000, right? And then they'll buy everything on behalf of their clients, and that's totally fine. It's just not how I do business.
 
Della Hansmann  34:48
It's a more hands on style of management, and more to be liable for, more to handle, and less opportunity for people to try to take off some of the cost by sourcing the materials if they want to. So. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's sort of, I made a similar choice as an architect. Many architects go further into not even into product selection, but into full construction management.
 
Della Hansmann  35:11
But that's just the business model that I use. Serves more people more quickly, but not all the way to the end, and then leaves them to adventure into contractor selection and things like that on their like that on their own, but you do have some you have cabinet people you like to work with. Do you have contractors you like to work with locally?
 
Aletha VanderMaas   35:28
Yeah, so two of my cabinet makers are also general contractors, you know, licensed and insured, so they and sometimes they've built the cabinets, and sometimes they've actually subcontracted that out to a different cabinet maker. So it just depends, like, what the scope of the whole project is, how busy their schedule is, but we kind of all work together.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   35:49
I would say the three men that I work with the most have all worked with me numerous times over the years, and they all know exactly what I want. They know what I'm going to ask for specifically they know. I'm going to say I want that to go to the corner or whatever. And we all know what the end result should look like, so, but that took a long time to, like, find all of these people.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   36:13
And, you know, I don't just, like, give their name out to random people, and a friend will ask, and I'll be like, oh, yeah, here's my guy. You should call him for this or but, you know, I kind of keep those a little close to my chest, and however, with this lovely economy we have right now, everyone is super-duper slow, so at least in West Michigan. So I've been a little more kind of willy nilly about handing out their stuff, because no one's busy.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   36:41
So, I mean, even, even my appliance person reached out to see if I had any options for them. And I'm like, You must be slow, because I've never heard from you about, like, how's work? How are things? Are you busy? My carpet guy, I mean, everybody, so which I'm upfront with clients about. I said, Hey, I'm slow. I could start this next week, if you want. Like you let me know. And everyone I work with is pretty slow compared to what we were during the pandemic, which was just crazy.
 
Della Hansmann  37:16
That was the time of home renovations. Everyone was staying home. Everyone was focusing on home. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. No. It's been, it's been weird. And I found people are, people are taking a little longer to sit with a project. I've got people who will have a proposal for months before they get back to me. Knock on wood for you.
 
Della Hansmann  37:39
I feel like the spring is sort of loosening things up a little bit. People are excited. I think people are seeing things happening around and suddenly getting excited to do things. Then, of course, it's the we're ready to go and yeah, how fast can it happen? It's like, oh, it's still gonna take however long it takes, unfortunately. But yes, we're excited. You're excited, yeah, but, yeah, okay, well, that's kitchen, yeah.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   38:08
I mean, the last part is really like handing it over to the contractor and doing the physical labor, right? So after the design is set, we get everything ordered. It's like sitting in there, you know, garage or basement, until the guy starts, and then he's building cabinets, or we're ordering them before they take out the old kitchen, right? Like, I'm not having one without a kitchen for longer than necessary.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   38:31
So yeah, I mean, and I'm on site a little bit. I'm not stopping by every day. I'm not even there once a week, once things start, but I'm on the phone with my contractor at least once a week to say, Hey, how are things going? And then if there's anything I need to stop out for, obviously, we do go and look at countertops in person. There's a few other things we do, but yeah.
 
Della Hansmann  38:51
I mean, kind of picked at the last minute, yeah.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   38:53
So yeah,
 
Della Hansmann  38:55
Well, and then the result is such a beautiful kitchen. So we'll put a several of your recent or your favorite kitchen projects on the show notes page so people can check that out. That was great. Thanks for walking us through the process of what it's like to work with true most directions and also what you should just kind of the right order to go in if you're thinking about kitchen remodel.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   39:15
Yeah, I feel like people always want to jump ahead to that design part, because that is the fun part. But you
 
Della Hansmann  39:22
And it's what you see in a magazine, you see the surfaces of things. I don't think about the structure, the layout, the
 
Aletha VanderMaas   39:29
drawer layout,
 
Della Hansmann  39:30
the life, yeah,
 
Aletha VanderMaas   39:31
where are my knives going?
 
Della Hansmann  39:33
So that matters
 
Aletha VanderMaas   39:35
In a drawer, preferably.
 
Della Hansmann  39:39
I mean, if the rare person can probably do a countertop knife block, but I don't want to
 
Aletha VanderMaas   39:45
have my countertop. I have other things that like have to go on the countertop that is not one of them.
 
Della Hansmann  39:51
Oh, maybe that's a perfect wrap up question for you, what is what belongs on a kitchen countertop in your mind?
 
Aletha VanderMaas   39:57
Oh, for me, just my toaster and my espresso machine. That's it, right? Your coffee maker and your toaster. However, if you don't toast a lot, then no, that can go away. But my family is obsessed with toast and bagels and English muffins and all of the things, so there's like, always a trail of crumbs on my counter
 
Della Hansmann  40:18
That's a sign of a well lived in house, then.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   40:20
Yes, right? Like, all right, we're having a bagel for dinner. I guess so cool.
 
Della Hansmann  40:25
 When everybody's busy. Sounds great.
 
Aletha VanderMaas   40:28
That is happens a lot, yeah, for sure.
 
Della Hansmann  40:31
What a fascinating question. What are the appliances, mini or non, that you can't live without on your countertops? What is always out, whether it's supposed to be or maybe if it's not, sometimes not having the right places to put things away is the reason something's on your countertop. But even after a beautiful kitchen remodel, there might be one or two things that will always be sitting in plain sight.
 
Della Hansmann  40:53
I'm a bit of a kitchen clutter maximalist myself, but don't take my example. Aletha is probably living a better kitchen apparent life, as she's told us in the episode, she invites clients over to admire how everything has turned out. And I tell people to look at my sketches.
 
Della Hansmann  41:09
All right, so you can see some examples of kitchens, including Aletha’s own at the show notes page. Don't miss them at mid mod-midwest.com/ 2402 and while you're there, don't forget to save your spot for the mid-century kitchen design clinic, which is coming up two weeks from Saturday.
 
Della Hansmann  41:28
Next week, I'll be talking to you about how kitchens in pop culture affect our tidal feelings of desire for what we should do for our kitchens, maybe not even in a trend perspective, but in a what is a kitchen definitionally? So I'm going to think about the range of kitchens I've experienced in my pop culture lifetime, going back to the sort of Nancy Myers ideal of maximalism, pots out spices out bowls of fruit and ingredients on every counter surface.
 
Della Hansmann  41:56
To what we're seeing now in TV and movies and in the shelter magazines, the invisible kitchen. Either or neither of those may be a good influence on your kitchen remodel. It depends on your personality, and we'll talk about that more next week. So catch you next week, mid mod remodeler.