The Bathroom Saga with Aletha VanderMaas

Even those of us who are now professional mid-century designers have skeletons in our closets (and in my case, basements). My fellow designer, Aletha Van der Mass of True Home Restorations, and I have both walked the design regret path. 

And now we both spend our time helping others avoid making the same mistakes. 

So today, in the interest of community (and laughter through tears) we are both sharing our shameful home renovation stories. 

Get the full show notes with all the trimmings at https://www.midmod-midwest.com/2502

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Want us to create your mid-century master plan? Apply here! Or get my course,  Ready to Remodel.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

It's so easy to point fingers at the previous owner of your home and shake your head and wonder what drove them to make that trendy, out-of-period cheap choice for a sweet little mid-century house like yours. How could they have been so wrong? It's a little more painful when the homeowner who tripped and fell into a pile of HD TV advice is you ten years ago. Here's the thing it happens. It may have happened to you, and it absolutely happened to both me and my fellow mid-century designer Aletha Vandermas of True Home Restorations. Today we are both reliable experts in mid-century remodels and spend our time preventing people from making remodeling mistakes, but once upon a time, we both made some ourselves. What's important is what happens next. Hey there. Welcome back to Mid-Mod Remodel. This is a show about updating MCM homes, helping you match a mid-century home to your modern life. I'm your host, Della Hansman, architect and mid-century ranch enthusiast. You're listening to episode 2502. I've actually made mistakes in a couple of parts of my mid-century house. I made them all immediately after I moved in, and I've been regretting them for very nearly 10 years since. It'll be 10 years this fall. Knock on wood, nothing worse happens. But I was down in the basement and I was feeling irritated by being stuck down there and in not able to be at my computer doing my day job. So I ended up picking up some tools and finishing the installation of a doorknob that had been sitting uninstalled in the unfinished part of the basement, waiting to allow me to actually close and latch the door separating the hypothetically finished part of my basement from the unfinished back part of the basement with the storage and the mechanical and the laundry part. And I that my basement project has been unfinished since the pandemic, partly because my life and work got really busy around that time, and I just actually haven't had the leisure to spend a day every week hanging out with my dad and doing tooltime projects together. And also, as I confessed in that video, very realistically, because some of the underlying design choices that I made for the basement are pretty freaking HGTV, and I don't like them anymore. I chose to source pre-primed door trim and base, and so it's painted white, and the walls are painted gray. Yes, I am a millennial, hear me roar. And now that I look at that, I also got a higher-than-I-needed base trim instead of classic ranch base, and you know, it just looks really cottagey. So there are a bunch of incomplete details down there, but I never feel motivated to go and work on finishing the project, partly because uh I have all the useful living space I need upstairs, and I know I'm very fortunate to have that, but also because it's not fun to go work on a project that I don't believe in anymore. And what I know I need to do is make some course corrections to not start over from scratch on that project, god forbid, but to realign it with my vision for what is now mid-century appropriate in the rest of the house and should be down there as well. Around the same time as I started but never quite finished that basement project, I did do a first pass update on my bathroom. And as I mentioned last week, I made a bunch of necessary choices. I did not lose anything that was original in mid-century in the house in that process. The bathroom, as I found it, was a very 90s Home Depot remodel. Um, so I got in there with paint, I replaced the flooring with something I like better, I took out the old man power flush toilet and replaced it with a modern low-flow toil uh Toto. Uh, but that bathroom doesn't sing to me. It doesn't tell me the story of mid-century sweetness that I would like it to, and so it's going to need me to come back and do it again. Um, remodeling, re-remodeling parts of your house is not fun. I encourage everyone, as we were talking about on last week's episode, to think about what is a more slow remodeling approach. What is the one-touch approach you can take, that every part of your house you change, you improve, you are making a choice that's going to last as long as you will live in the house, maybe as long as the house itself will last. Certainly it could. Not something half-assed or so cheap that it will fail soon, or so trend-tied that it will soon be out of date. Anyway, I say all of this, all my personal confessions here, by way of introducing how exciting I find this topic I'm gonna be sharing with Aletha. When we chatted last season about kitchens, she mentioned that she had recently just re-redone her bathroom and that she was so pleased with the results. She had finally removed the hurt in herself of knowing that she had a bathroom she couldn't recommend to anyone else. And she did not have to scrape it all out and start over from scratch to make that happen. So I'll let her tell the story and our conversation in a few minutes. Um, but she's also gonna walk us through sort of her perspective on what are the key questions and the bright process for planning a bathroom update. And I think all we want to catch here is how do you take a long-term, I don't have to do this again because I did it wrong the first time, approach to remodeling the bathroom in your mid-century house. You can find links to Atletha's website and I imagine some nice photos of her bathroom update project at the show notes page for this episode, midmod-midwest.com slash 2502. Without further ado, let's let Aletha tell us more. Do you want to talk about bathrooms?

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Yeah, I just redid mine because I made terrible choices. Follow along with my saga, this was crazy. I just I mean nothing about everything I'm doing, but um, yeah, I messed up like because you you kind of did it first, right? I did it first. I didn't I didn't really immerse myself in mid-century design at all. I just we bought this house and I thought, well, these bath sadly, I I feel good saying the original bathroom was not here. I did not like take out a beautiful original bathroom. Unfortunately, unfortunately, yeah, it would have been lovely if it was there. I don't know if I would have kept it. It just I guess it would have depended what condition it was in, right? Like ideally, it would have been the original bathroom that no one ever murdered over white paint or whatever, but it it wasn't.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

That's its own kind of challenge, really, because when you have a true time capsule bathroom and something has failed, I know the plumbing goes wrong. It's really hard to preserve some of the tile without preserving all of the tile, and it's hard to preserve the tile without preserving like you either leave a time capsule bathroom alone or yeah, destroy it, generally speaking. There's not a big middle ground there. So, I mean, I think this is the situation a lot of my clients are in, and you found yourself in where someone's already come in and made a mess. So you're like, okay, well, I can't do worse. But you did probably what I did when I moved to my house. You took all the normal kitchen internet or bathroom internet advice and you what subway tile?

SPEAKER_00 7:24

So I Pinterested, well, I mean, so it was 2012, and it was everything was, you know, moving toward this cooler color palette, and everything on the internet was super modern, right? Nothing was mid-century. There were, there were I know Atomic Ranch existed, but and I may have even been a subscriber, perhaps.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

Even they tip into the more modernist rather than the like I agree, mid-century inflected sometimes. And I think when I first encountered Atomic Ranch, I didn't experience it as a general recommendation for a house built in the 50s. I thought of it as cool homes in California that were a particular type of house. And I think a lot of people make that assumption that what they're seeing there isn't something they can have.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

So that's exactly what happened at my house. I actually had a friend who was kind of helping with me with design, but I didn't love all of her ideas, which was fine. But anyway, it turned into a mess. Don't hire friends. It's very tricky. Anyway, that's a whole story on itself, but it doesn't matter. But anyway, uh yeah, I did. And then, of course, we were doing this whole renovation, so obviously price was super important. So I was like, I mean, I don't really care what the floors are, which is insane now that I didn't care what the floors were. Like we heated the floors and we put in 12 by 24 oversized tiles. I know it's terrible, Della. It's terrible.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

Did you DIY it? Because that's such an easy install choice.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

No, we hired somebody that paid a bunch of money to have these tiles installed. And then on one of the in one of the bathrooms, when you were going to the bathroom, one foot was warm and one foot was cold.

unknown 9:15

Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

That's the sort of thing you experience every time, and you're just like so.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

For 12 years, I know this is the first world problem. For 12 years, my right foot was cold in the guest room. Well, I mean in the cold, cold months when the heat's on.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

Anyway, right.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

So I did these very affordable tile choices. And I know it's a luxury to be able to come in and do your bathroom. And now I've done my bathrooms twice. I know that that is like very luxurious to be able to do that. But I will tell you what, it's cheaper than moving houses. It is.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

Well, and and what you have done is been a test case for a lot of other people who can take advice, who follow you on Instagram and watch this remodel journey, and who are listening to this podcast now and going forward in the future, who can just make a one-off set of good choices for their bathroom.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

Right. And it's so simple. If you were to, if I of course I say that looking back, how simple it was. I could have picked any four four by four tiles exist a plenty. Even if I just would have won white ones, I would have been happy with them. Anyway, so yes, I put in subway tile with gray grout because why not to?

SPEAKER_02 10:27

It was like practically the law in that moment.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

I mean it was super affordable. I think those tiles were 22 cents a piece at the Home Depot, like whatever. It was fine. Um the gray grout made them fancy. I don't know. And then we added some wallpaper at some point, you know, to to judge it up a little bit, even though it just looked terrible in my opinion. It was fine. But anyway, yes. So that's what I did. Don't do that.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

Hopefully, well, here's the thing. I wish people were in no danger of doing that today, but we still, we still are. That's still what you find on Pinterest, and that's still what you see at the Home Depot. And I honestly don't even know that it's a terrible choice if you live in a 30s cottage that's been terribly remodeled five times and you're trying to bring back some some cottage charm to it, but it's not in your mid-century bathroom. No.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

And you can get affordable four by fours, and they're just as easy to install as a three by six subway tile. And it's it's just, I just didn't know. So I hope that you and I and Ailen and Karen of Destination Art Claire, everyone who focuses on mid-century design, just continues to put out the information that people need to find somehow, just to make the right choices. If they want to make the right choices, some people would be like you just said, some people would be super happy with mid, you know, a tile, whatever tile, just be happy to have a bathroom, in fact. Um, so I know that this is like just for design people, design nerds who are, yes, I am obsessed. I looked at that tile every day numerous times, and I was like, this was the stupidest expensive mistake, too, right? Like the tile was cheap, but the install was so expensive, and then taking it out again.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

And I think that this really, though, is the thing. Rather than looking back and saying, like, how wrong I was, what you did was, and I haven't done it in tile, but I did it to my house in that moment, is I made a trendy choice because I looked around, I saw a bunch of people doing remodels, I thought it was cute, and it seemed fresh and new. And I was like, Oh, that's kind of cute. I hadn't seen that much before. Now I'm seeing more of it. Oh, I like it the more that I see it. Yeah, being aware of making trendy choices is challenging because at first they just seem fresh. Yeah. But every time you follow a trend, 10 years later, you hate your own house every day as you use it. And so that's the trap that I want to keep people out of because it it you can live with it and be frustrated, or you can re-remodel. And both of those are iffy choices for different reasons. But at the end of the day, like I think also there is a risk. I feel like everybody makes a mistake on their first house project. Like, whatever you do first. Yeah, gotta come back around and do that one again. The rest of it should be good, good to go. You love your kitchen, your kitchen is still magazine worthy, but your your first bathroom project, you're just like I never shared pictures of the bathrooms, rarely.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

And I was like, and now I post a picture of a bathroom, and people are like, oh, and I'm like, oh, I'm so I did not do this for the accolades, I did this for my own brain, but I'm glad that everybody also is like agreed. I don't know if you remember, but my you can kind of see my floors back here. They they were gray. Um I did gray wood floors, and of course, I remember a couple years after moving in, someone was like, Why are your floors gray? And I'm like, it's really good with the mortar in my fireplace stone, and it did. And then I was like, Oh no, it was the wrong choice, and I I didn't know. I just didn't, I just didn't know.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

I I mean in 2012 I didn't know, and so the information wasn't really easily obtained, but I should have known.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

I mean, I've seen old houses, I knew that they had wood floors and you know, some sort of brown, not gray, anyway. So these are all standed down now. These are the same floors, they're just totally naked. Oh, yeah. And they're maple. I'm like, ooh, look, and they're maple, um, and they are beautiful. They are a little wider than if I were to do them today. I think they're four inch instead of two and a quarter or whatever. Um but they're they're beautiful and they were already here, so yeah, that's you know, like ripping out maple would have been insane. So silly.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

So no, and there are also always middle grounds when you're trying to modify what you've got, whether it's somebody else made a choice you don't love, or whether you yourself made a choice in your early home ownership that you don't love anymore. It's not necessary to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

You can just tweak. Yeah, just tweak. Yep, that's what we did.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

Not the subway tile. Not the subway tile, no. So if somebody's starting from scratch on a bathroom, changing the layout, did you did you make any layout changes when you're remodeling again, or did you just replace?

SPEAKER_00 15:23

No, we thought about it. I felt like in hindsight, in our little primary bathroom, we could have moved but the toilet, but then we would have had to move a door. And I thought, toilet was there. Then you, you know, it kind of, and then I was like, this is too much. This gonna, I don't even want to do it. So we didn't do it.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

It's disruptive. I mean, I always workshop layout changes on bathrooms for my clients, but especially when they're snug or when they're like too nested back to back. Yep. You're making a choice to destroy everything to fix one problem, which some people want to make, but I want them to sort of like let's think about it. Let's think about how big of an improvement that is. Is it worth it?

SPEAKER_00 16:02

Yep. This wasn't worth it. Yeah, not in this case. And the other side of this bathroom is our closet. So then the closet got funky. And then if we ever were like here and really old and had like a walker or a wheelchair, I was like, you wouldn't even be able to get to the bathroom because you'd have to make like two 90-degree turns, which yes, as a walking human, I can do that, but as a human with assistance, I couldn't do it. So anyway, we did not make that change, and I'm it's fine, it's totally fine. Um, and it works, everything works just fine. It's not yes, two small bathrooms, but they they work just fine. So same, so the same sort of thing. If you want me to go through the process with that kitchen, it's the same, or I mean with the bathroom, it's the same as the kitchen. So it's basically a kitchen on a much smaller scale size-wise, but you're literally picking every the same thing. You're doing you're doing three layouts, and then I'm having my cabinet maker come and do, you know, whatever. We're gonna like get these prices going, and then we're doing three design, you know, directions, and then we're narrowing down all those choices. So, um, you know, your wood grain, your metal color, obvious. I would say, not obviously, but usually white toilet sinks and tubs. Like, I'm not doing it, I've never done anything in a color. Like, I you know, I know Kohler has those really cool have you been tempted? Oh, yeah, that peach blow um Kohler is so pretty. I've never had a client ask for it and I've never presented it as an option.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

So I I remember when they had their um, they had like a poll, they had nine colors or something and they narrowed it down to three. Oh, I was voting for none of my favorites got picked. So I think if one of the colors I had loved most had gone into their selection, I would be like twisting people's arms to try to get it in. But the the peach isn't one favorite.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

You don't love the peach? I think lavender was the option I voted for. I feel like yeah, I don't think, and then there they did spring green, right? I don't know. They're very, very cute. But um, again, like, oh, and I didn't mention this when we were talking about kitchens. But in my opinion, the easiest thing to change in your kitchen is your backsplash, even though it may seem like a really big, I know this isn't gonna fit into the back when we talked about, but just to say to you, like, I tell clients, we can you can change this backsplash in 10 years, and it wouldn't be the end of the world. It wouldn't destroy your layout, yeah. No, or it doesn't ruin your countertops, it's it doesn't ruin anything. That's an easy change. So, saying that, going into bathrooms, in my opinion, tile in the bathroom is way more important because it is so the floor tile is such a mess. That's not just a quick backsplash change, right? That's like no bathroom for a couple of weeks. Right.

SPEAKER_02 18:46

You're picking you're pulling the toilet, you're possibly deinstalling the vanity. It's a big deal.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

It is a lot, yeah. I mean, our bathrooms, my guy is wonderful, but he was very slow. It took 12 weeks to get those bathrooms retiled.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

Oof.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

Did you do them both simultaneously and have the camp? And the laundry room and the kitchen. So in our kitchen backsplash is tiny, um, and our laundry room isn't that big either. Every room is pretty small, but it was just a ton of tile, and then we did all the walls to the ceiling. So it's a lot of tile. Um and the ceiling over the tubs. So yeah, it's a lot, but it did turn out wonderfully. Um, I do think I made an excellent choice. I can't imagine. There's they're so much better.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

Yeah. Well, no, but objectively, they're just great. Yeah. Um, although there's there's something fun to actually experiencing an improvement, not just a nice thing, but like I remember what it was.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Oh, when I look at old photos and it's hard to remember like how I'm like, oh, oh, and I had those vessel sinks. Oh so Pinterest pretty, so much cleaning grime out of a little corner, so dirty because I had to like wash on both sides, and then behind them would get gross, especially on my spouse's side with his like shaving. There were always, and I was like, This is so gross, and the kids, oh, it was so gross. So, what's your oh I wouldn't say go-to recommendation? Well, I I was gonna tell you, I got those sinks because they were only a hundred dollars a piece, so when I and I have two double sinks, so I remember picking them based on price too. I'm like, these are a hundred bucks a piece. We actually did a laminate countertop underneath them to keep it, you know, it was like a more affordable choice. My go-to sink is the color vertical drop-in, or doesn't drop in, under mounted sink. It's there very they have it in like a few sizes. Uh, the 19 inches, the big one. I had the 17 inches in mind because I thought it the 19 would be too big, and I was wrong. I could have done the 19 inches, but it's okay, it's it's totally fine. Anyway, the color vertical in white is my favorite bathroom sink. And now that I have it, it is a little difficult to clean because it's the it's the edges are so straight. So like you have to like really, especially those corners. Um, but I still love the look of it enough that I don't want like a slopey one. So yeah, I use that one in every bathroom I've done.

SPEAKER_02 21:16

So it's worth thinking about too the hundred dollar sink for the vessel sink, but then how many hours of your life did you spend degriming? This is where I'm like, some choices are expensive because they're expensive, and some choices are expensive in your life. Your life. Um, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

I did end up tracking those vertical sinks down for myself on Facebook Marketplace, and I got one or two on eBay, and you know, it's just a standard sink that everybody sells. So I feel like I got a good deal on most of them. I don't think I had to order any retail pricing, but also like I had plenty of time to order things, so I just tried to like accumulate this stuff as slowly as I could.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

This is an untold benefit of a long planning window in a project of any nature. For you, just sort of, I don't know, did you have a full flesh bat plan or were you like, I know I'm gonna redo this, so at some point I'm gonna need my favorite sink. I'm just gonna start hunting for it. But one way or another, you have the leeway to look for things secondhand, to find things at a deal. If you've got a little storage, you can just hang on to stuff and then take action when you've got it all.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

Yeah, I have plenty of storage. We put vintage, I just had like very modern finger pulls on all the cupboards, and they were fine. I liked they were just super simple, but over time being wet, they kind of got a little grimy and they bubbled a little bit. And so I knew we'd replace those. And so I did find some vintage ones that we tracked down over many years, not knowing they'd end up in that room, but just that we had kind of you know a dollar here, a dollar there at the restore or whatever. And then I'm like, oh dang, these will be perfect for the bathroom. The ones we went put on are a little pointy, they're like a little um boomerang, and not boomerang, I don't know, but they're pointy on the end. So I've definitely like, oh, they grab the towels. Like, you can't stand next to the thing. I'll grab my towel. First world problems.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

Yeah. But it's it's fun to have tracked them down and sort of source them into the right spot. Oh, that's great. So would do you do you recommend anything other than four by four tiles? Is that your favorite, or what do you put into a bathroom wall normally?

SPEAKER_00 23:27

So my favorite is a four by four out of all the bathrooms I've seen over the years, it's just the most classic, right? However, when you do find those old time capsule vintage time capsule bathrooms, there are some that are really cool. But recreating them, in my opinion, would be really difficult because there are either a mosaic, um, which obviously what is the brand? Universal, no. Um I can't think of the oh Merola. Marola still makes those university and academy lines of mosaics. So those are two really good bathroom floors. And I have used those numerous times and then paired with a four by four, those look pretty authentic. Um, and but like, and I love a good rectangle, like stacked, you know, all nice and linearly. Um, it's not what I wanted at my house. I wanted people to think my bathrooms were old. So I wanted the time capsule. Yeah. Yeah, I really wanted the time capsule to look. Even though my original bathroom had bubble tile, all different size circles in really yeah, I have wild. I feel like I have to show you a picture. Hold on. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

We'll we'll put it in the show notes page for sure.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

All right, oh, maybe it's not. Oh, yeah, here it is. I'm like, it's no, it's not. Let's see if I can show it to you. Um, and I can, yeah, I can send you a digital copy of it. But it was pink maroon and um, yeah, like pinks and maroons, which I guess the whole house kind of was, which when I look at our fireplace, that totally makes sense. Okay, let's see. I can show you. Let's see. Do you see that wall? Like, right. What? That's a tile. So that's the laundry room. Oh my gosh. Oh, I'm getting okay, then the drop-in sink. Yeah, drop-in sink, like bright magenta countertop, and then all of this.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

What's built into that little shelf there? Is that a soap dispenser?

SPEAKER_00 25:40

I think into the shelf. Like there's a little moody thing. I think those slide open and they were like a little compartment. I know you're getting it. There we go. Uh no.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

No, but that's fabulous. Oh my god, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

Wild. So unfortunately, that was long gone when I moved when we bought the house. I'll show you what I bought.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

I love that detail though. The built-up I often actually design a little shelf. Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

So that was yeah, I mean, I'm just showing you the one image.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

There's a lot of things. Holy Anties.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

That's so in 9 glass block in 1992. He took out, he like merged the laundry room and the bathroom, and he made this glass block. Like you and I, as seated in my end, could like brush our teeth facing one and he was so proud of it. Like when we came to the walkthrough, he was like, I made this, I have, and he shows me all these pictures, and I'm like, This is the first thing we're gonna take out. I did not tell him that, but it was like, oh, that he had rope lights in it. He was so proud of it. And I he loved this house, he lived here for 20 years, but he took out the original kitchen, which was metal and had the overcounter fridge freezer, like the fridge that opened. I just had I can't, the photo's hard to see, otherwise I'd show you. But he took and I mean, I I assume it broke, like I can I can understand that. And I can also understand in like the 80s and 90s and early 2000s, you don't want to live in a time capsule from the 50s, like again.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

It wasn't it wasn't sweet then, it was just old, but oh my god, what I wouldn't get for a for a cabinet refrigerator.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

I know it was so cool anyway. So I did get to meet the second family that lived here, and he the kid who grew up here in like the 70s and 80s, and he's like, Oh, my parents just lived there, they didn't change anything. He goes, I don't even think we ever painted anything, like everything was exactly I know they changed the carpet because I have some cute photos of them like doing like taking out carpet staples, but he's like, We might have changed the carpet. I'm like, This looks like it was 80s, and this is you, right? He's like, Oh my gosh, I think it's my brother.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

So that's wild though, because I I can't imagine that just living in a house exactly as we found it.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

It doesn't make sense to me, but I know, and yeah, they were the second, I bet they bought it in the 70s because the first owner lived here until sometime in the 70s, and then this family moved in. He's like, We didn't do anything, we didn't change any, we didn't paint the outside. He's like, I don't think my parents did anything, and I was like, I mean, at that point, they didn't damage anything. No, at that point the house was what 15 years old, you know, it wasn't like an old house, and so I don't know if they thought it was cool. I didn't ask, like, did people think you lived in the weird house or the cool house? Or, you know, like all my kids' friends think this is cool once they see inside. Like, yeah, you have no walls, like there's no walls at all.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

Not everybody has a brick fireplace wall, like you have, you know.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

Yes, for sure. It's remarkable behind us, and then the yeah, and then the fireplace is like hearth is saturating. Yeah, so yeah, it's definitely like a house that you walk in as a kid and you're like, This is this is not like my house at all. So, yeah, but anyway, bathrooms, yes, so our bathroom did not have four by four tiles, which was totally fine. So, again, like if I would have walked in and it was an amazing shape, would my 2012 brain be like, this is totally worth keeping? Or would it be like, this is terrible? I don't know. I'm not sure how I would have felt back then.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

It's hard to see, but you did you took out the glass block share sink, island sink.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

Yes, yes, we did that out immediately. So, oh, and when we, you know what, when we took that room apart, there was this wall that was just plywood. And we were like, what the heck is this? And it was an old exterior door that walked into the laundry room. But at some point, someone took that out and I kind of I glazed over it. But in that laundry room, there was a door that used to come, you could go in or out. And I could imagine someone, you know, in the Midwest here, we have lots of people who worked dirty jobs, right? So the guy who built this house was like a tool and die guy coming like and drop things off there, and yes, and then going and taking a shower like after work, and also to get out to the line to hang your clothes after washing, that would be really easy because it's it kind of is right behind our garage, so you would have a line out there really easily. Like I can understand why all that was there, but we did glass block that actually. So that open doorway is now a really pretty glass block, and we were able to track down a very the same glass block that's original in our garage, a smaller version of it for that room. So it all looks intentional, but it is weird because it goes like from the floor to the ceiling, and you're like, what is this weird window? You're like, oh well, it used to be a door, but someone covered it up with really cheap plywood and painted it. It's real ugly.

SPEAKER_02 31:07

So it works though, yeah. So what what did you keep from one bathroom to the next? Did you keep the vanities intact?

SPEAKER_00 31:19

Yes. Okay, so when we did the house in 2012, we did everything, obviously. And so then when we were redoing it, yes, we kept the vanities and all the faucets, um, the shower heads, the toilet, all of the hooks and teepee holders and like towel hooks. I mean the lights. We didn't even remove the mirror. I had mirrors glued to the walls, um, just like a wall-to-wall mirror that were no frame, just like a way they would do mid-century. I don't have the little clips, even though that would have been more period appropriate. Um, I just had them stuck to the wall and I had my tile guy just tile right around him, which he wasn't really hit to initially. He thought it would look kind of unintentional because it the tile was gonna kind of end wherever the tile ended. And I'm like, I don't really want what happens. You're gonna take this off the wall, it's probably gonna break. And then I'm gonna have to buy a new one and have it. I just I like them where they are. So we just, and even though they weren't very expensive, you know, 12, 14 years ago, I didn't really want to rebuy them. So we reused everything. We Greg, my spouse, he reinstalled our shower glass that all is the same. Oh, nice. Yeah, I mean, we reused every single thing. So the only thing, the only thing we replaced was all the tile and then the sinks and the countertops. So we did ports in there now, yeah. Um, which felt wasteful. The old countertops are just kind of sitting, and I'm like, oh, this feels wasteful, but um, yeah, maybe someone will be able to source them at some point.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

I think it it looks great. In the photos, the four by four you chose is gray. Is it is it gray in real life or bluer in no?

SPEAKER_00 33:03

It's really lavender in real life. Lovely, yeah. But when it first came, it looked really gray. And I was like, did I pick gray again? Like, but it's just cool. It's a very cool lavender, that is true, yes.

SPEAKER_02 33:19

So I'm looking down at the pictures right now as I talked to you about it, and it it really just makes the warmth of the existing built-ins pop. It's so nice.

SPEAKER_00 33:28

Yes, yes, yep. So I used Fire Clay. They have that, they have a press, it's called natural press. So it's a little more affordable than their ceramic. And they had a pink that I really wanted my bathroom to be pink, but the pink they had was a little too earthy and didn't contrast enough with my cabinets. And I thought, oh, I like this color a lot, but I don't like it with my cabinet, and I'm not putting in a different cabinet because they match all the other cabinets. And um, so then I landed on that. They call it amethyst, the purple color. Yeah, like it's definitely purple in real life. But people are like, is this gray? And I'm like, no, it's not gray, but I can see that it looks gray.

SPEAKER_02 34:07

It's just hard, it's hard to tell from the photos, but what it does, regardless of what it is, is it looks great with your cabinets. And as you said, you know, we talked about this in the kitchen. Like, are you choosing wood or are you matching wood? And in this case, you're matching wood, and so that everything else has to look good with that. It's the wrong color if it doesn't make your wood look good. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 34:26

Yes, and I just does, yeah, and I do like the color of our wood. It's like a tiky orange, so it's definitely like mid-century. It looks definitely different than like a white oak kitchen, would be beautiful, just not what I have, right? So yeah, I'm definitely warm. It looks good with all the other stuff in our house.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

So yeah, fabulous. So, how long did you say you were gonna do your bathroom over before it took you to actually do your bathroom over?

SPEAKER_00 34:53

Probably 11 years.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

That sounds about right. That sounds about right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

We moved in and I was like, oh no, oh no. And then I'm like, but I can't take out this brand new tile, that's so wasteful. And then, like I said, we we added some wallpaper, and of course, we added art, but you know what? I never, to be honest, I it sounds so snotty, but I never liked the bathroom, so I never even bought like cute towels for them. We just had like our old white towels from our old house. I only I literally only bought one runner for each room once in the 12 years we lived here, just a white runner. It was so plain and boring. And I just was like, I know I'll eventually do these. I just don't know when.

SPEAKER_02 35:41

And then yeah. I think it's an interesting thing to just realize in yourself because I was, as I mentioned, we were chatting before we got on the call. There were when at the time of recording, there were tornadoes in my neighborhood last night. I spent a bunch of time in my basement. My basement is finished. What it is is not finished because I was working on finishing it as a project with my dad in 2020. Uh, and I remember the day when my sister, who was still in medical residency at that point, she's a doctor now, um, was hanging out with my mom in town getting coffee as they had a little break between her classes, and she had just gotten a lecture from her immunological diseases professor about how dangerous COVID was about to be and how we should all go isolate. And my mom came home and was like, Doug, we gotta go. And they left and we put our tools down on the floor. And I didn't touch them again for like three years. And basically, nothing has ever happened in that basement since. I don't really need the space. And also, in the time since, I have realized the mistakes I was making down there. It has gray cork floors and gray walls and white trim. I can't stand to finish the project because it's so wrong. So it's still so I was like hanging out avoiding the tornado in my unfinished, like it's I've cleaned and done some things since then, but there's like still tools in the corner and like a pile of boards in the like living den area.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

Oh shoot.

SPEAKER_02 37:08

So I have to go back and like I can't choose wood trim now, but I could at least paint the walls and trim to match. Um I know.

SPEAKER_00 37:21

Yeah. It was my first project. I didn't do anything in the bathrooms. I didn't even buy pretty towels. I just used what we had and then and they were fine. They were all just white towels. But you know how you're like, oh, now I'm gonna accessorize. I'm like, there's nothing to accessorize, it looks terrible in here.

SPEAKER_02 37:36

It's hard to love it when you know you made a choice wrong, especially the longer you let it sit. So I'm so happy for you. You've you've brought your bathrooms into alignment with the rest of the house, and now it's all so charming. Um, anything you did on your bathroom that that feels like absolutely universal you would recommend it for anyone, or conversely, anything that was right choice for you that you wouldn't generally recommend for other people doing a mid-century bathroom update?

SPEAKER_00 38:01

I mean, I again with that countertop just being one continuous thing, I love those sinks that are just, you know, under mounted into the we use quartz again. Um, I think that is just a nice, beautiful surface that really looks awesome. One thing that we do have is I floated the vanities and they were floating before, but they were too low because again, I had that sink on the top and it had to be at the right height, and so it never looked floating.

SPEAKER_02 38:29

So you've got to elevate them.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

Yeah, so he, so my guy elevated them, and now they look like they were gonna look in my brain, you know, when we moved in, but they never did. So yeah, it was a little annoying to like reconfigure everything to like get it up to the right height. And Greg had to like redo a little plumbing to make everything fit, but they look so much better, and then that tile goes right under there. Yeah, it's kind of it's not like anything fits under there. I have a scale under, I mean, you know, it's not that much space. But when you're in there and you can see it, it just looks so pretty and modern. Like it feels like, oh, I mean, yeah, I have to vacuum and I have to like um mop under there, so maybe you don't need that.

SPEAKER_02 39:09

But I really like it though. I wherever possible I spec a floating vanity in a bathroom for a couple reasons. One, because I think it's making a small space look bigger, and two, even though you've got to clean underneath it, you never have the wood of your of a kick plate touching tile.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:25

Where they could get gummy or like actually take on water damage. So you've just elevated the main wood thing that's in a bathroom above the wet surface of floor splash.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 39:35

And it looks pretty.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

It just looks pretty. I was like, that was a lot of finagling. Was that even worth it? I'm like, whatever, that's what it is.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

So totally justified. Yeah, yeah, for sure. It looks great.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

Yeah, yeah, I'm super happy with it. So, or both of them, they look great.

SPEAKER_02 39:53

What was your do you remember? Because it looks like they're not you didn't replace the lights. What's the light fixture that you have over your mirror there?

SPEAKER_00 39:59

Oh man, rejuvenation used to make a really awesome lineup of mid-century stuff, and they've slowly slowly discontinued each piece by piece by piece. I have these lights. Let's see if you can see these lights over. Oh, yeah, those are so cute. Yeah, so I know that that is a um a writ or you know, they stole that. It's an old uh design. They call it the doo-wop light. I'm trying to think of who the designer is.

SPEAKER_02 40:28

Oh, I know it too.

SPEAKER_00 40:29

It's uh or is it uh it's the PL, it's the uh yeah, it's that guy. I think it's pulsing. Is that I don't know. Anyway, you'll have to look it up. But it's the doo-wop light. I didn't know this until a really knowledgeable client was like, Oh, we're gonna do these doo-op lights, and I looked it up. I'm like, Oh, I must have the knockoff version of these from rejuvenation.

SPEAKER_02 40:53

Yes, it is pulsing, you're absolutely right. The Danish, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Yes, yes. And so maybe rejuvenation got in trouble. I don't, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, you can't like, I mean, if you're knocking it off and selling it as something, I don't I don't know all those things. I don't know all the legalities of that, but that was a really cute light they read anyway. So the bathroom light, they used to make the little version, which I have four of four little versions. They also made a really long version that I've had a client use, and that's actually my favorite. But again, those were five hundred dollars each. So I instead bought four little ones instead of four big ones.

SPEAKER_02 41:36

Yeah, fair, but they look super cute on yours, and they really do look they look time capsule.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Yeah, they really do. Yeah, that was an act. We we we got a few. I have I feel like I could show you all of my lights. Let's see what ones over here. So this one was also a rejuvenation. I didn't really clean over there for you. Really?

SPEAKER_02 41:54

I would have guessed that was a find.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

That's that is that is also a knockoff of an old light. I forget I could find it, but I don't know what it is off the top of my head. So that was when they offered in brass and chrome. And in hindsight, brass would have looked better in this house, in my opinion, because it's so warm.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

But I went with Chrome and we're we're we are in with chrome, so we're not changing all the lights. Chrome works. I think my take on that is today we think of brass as fancy and chrome as workmanlike and sort of basic. But back when I think they thought of brass as a little bit more of a like, well, you have to polish it and it's gonna get a patina. And chrome is the atomic, it's the metal of the future, it's so modern and clean.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

So we just have to respect. I'm good with it. Yeah. I was like, we could change because my sputnik behind me, which I love, which is from Practical Props, which makes the best one in my opinion. I was like, I could order that in the brass. And I'm like, are we gonna change all the lights? No, we're not changing lights. So we're just we don't get ahead of myself. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 42:59

If I found one second hand, maybe I would, but it's not hard to substitute them if you do have a find, but you don't need to go around repurchasing everything.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

I definitely not know, and it's like, and this one was fine, and then what do I do with this one? Then I just have this in a box somewhere, yeah. No, so anyway, rejuvenation made those lights in the bathroom and they're perfect. So they're so charming. I still, yes, I love them.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

Did you see this didn't finish gossip? Rejuvenation has reintroduced a line of un anodized brass. They've got a heritage brass product now that will take a patina. It's not in everything. For example, they don't have it in the cute little like Starburst backers. Oh, they have it in some of their things. And I want everyone to go buy it so that they'll keep making it until they'll make more of it.

SPEAKER_00 43:47

Yes. I do have the I did put these on. Oh, I left the drawers open. You're they're hard to see, but they're the little stars. Um yeah, they're so cute. Yeah. And those are from Rejuvenation. Those went on sale a few years ago for like 99 cents in the chrome, and I was like, Oh, I need 50. That's a good time to buy them.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

Absolutely. Oh, they're so precious. Yeah, they are really. And that gives you the time capsule. It does.

SPEAKER_00 44:11

Yeah. Even though. And you know, half my clients are like, oh yeah, I definitely want that time capsule. Look, and half of them are like, oh my gosh, those are way too retro for me. I'm like, yeah, that's totally fair. So I'm that's fine.

SPEAKER_02 44:22

Exactly. So I feel like knowing that in yourself is one of the starting points of like where where are we headed? Because there are a bunch of roads that all branch off from mid-century, even accurate mid-century. Um, and knowing how sort of Twee versus minimalist you're going is is maybe the biggest divergence of all. That informs so many other choices afterwards. It does.

SPEAKER_00 44:46

And actually, that's a good thing to know. When I give people three design choices for the kitchen and the bathroom, they do kind of lean, like one is more minimalist, organic-y, the other one is maybe like very atomic, where I do the Starburst and I might do like a wacky wild if they say they like color, like red and turquoise or something that would be like, whoa, this is unexpected. And then there's really one that's like minimal but still colorful. So I wouldn't maybe give them a neutral, but I, you know, anyway. So I do try to like lead them to three different ideas to see where they land and then kind of zero in on exactly what they like. So, and I feel like I've done all of those for people. I mean, I've definitely had people that really want a lot of color, which is how I like to live, but then I've definitely done like black and white, like I've done a black, white, and gray living room, and I'm like, this is so boring. And then I get it all together like great! I don't know why I was worried about this. I mean, I tell the client I was worried, but I was like, oh, this seems so boring. Um, and then you know, you get all the pillows and you get the odds and ends out, and um, and you're like, oh, actually, this looks amazing. I'm awesome. So cool. They love it, we're all good.

SPEAKER_02 46:00

It works. I think my theory about color is if you love it, you should go for it. But if it scares you, you don't have to do things you don't want to. And also, I think if you know in yourself, like some people have a favorite color and they have it forever, and other people sort of like go through seasons. Yeah. And if that's you, put it in your paint and your soft furnishings and don't tile it to your bathroom walls, for example.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

Yes, for sure, for sure. I have always loved red, even I I don't wear a ton of it, but just I've always loved red. And when I moved here, I didn't think I could have any red in this house because it's so warm and it just didn't make sense. And now I'm like, I love red in here. I mean, I don't want like a red sofa, that would be too much with the orange wall, but like one red pillow isn't gonna kill the place. And so I literally sold like all these red things because I had so many at my old house that was also a little tiny 50s bungalow. Um, but anyway, yeah, it's just funny how I'm like, I've always loved red, and I just shied away from it because it wasn't great, you know. Did it go with gray? And like it was supposed to be everything was just so neutral, and so that was so the you know, that was my mistake of not just embracing what I liked. Um, yeah. So you love yellow, right? Yellow is your color.

SPEAKER_02 47:17

I I do basically I if it's if it's a color in my house, it's yellow.

SPEAKER_00 47:23

Yellow, yeah. So you know you could tile your bathroom in yellow and be very happy.

SPEAKER_02 47:29

I probably could. Um I really probably could, but I'd still be more likely to do everything in white and yellow tiles. I have uh I have blue original tile in my bathroom. So for me, blue and yellow isn't it's fine in the world, but it for me it's too much color. Yeah. Where I get into my tism and I'm like, no, only one color at a time. So the bathroom has many blue things. Okay. All right. Uh, but yeah, everything else in the entire house is yellow, basically.

SPEAKER_00 47:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:00

Yellow or neutral.

SPEAKER_00 48:01

Yes, yellow or neutral. I think yellow is a neutral, right? That's how you start looking at your favorite color. It goes with everything.

SPEAKER_02 48:09

True. That is that works for me.

SPEAKER_00 48:11

Yeah. Aileen's favorite color is orange, and she's always loved orange, and so she has a lot of orange. And I'm like, I like orange, but I also, yeah, it's just funny. So it's fun to have a favorite color and know what it is and just go for it.

SPEAKER_02 48:25

Starts to seem like the right thing. It also helps me avoid that. I don't have to buy a lot of things. If they don't come in yellow, I don't need it. So that saves me. Marvelous. Um, any final self-bathroom remodel lessons to pass along?

SPEAKER_00 48:42

No, I mean, I think I mean, in my opinion, so we reheated the floors. Oh, we even reused the heater, like the heater of nice thermostats, because I remember buying those and they were $300 a piece. And then when the guy redid the bathrooms, he's like, You're gonna update these, right? And I was like, No, no, I'm not, because I have a receipt and I know that they were $300. So um, we reused those. I mean, in my opinion, in a mid-century house, if you're I think that's such a great upgrade. I know it sounds like so goofy to heat your floor, but if you like you're retiling anyway in the Midwest when it is cold, like everybody walks in the bathroom and they're like, oh, your floors feel great. Um, it's a tiny luxury. And most of these houses that we are talking about and I work on are small houses.

SPEAKER_02 49:34

It's not like some huge fancy house, but like effective thing to do though, I think, because a lot of people feel like you get up in the morning and it's cold and you're gonna go take a shower and you want it to be warm. You can go bump the thermostat in the entire house to try to heat up the bathroom, or you can turn on the floors in the bathroom. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and so yeah, I'm a big um, I mean, given a choice, I would in floor heat everywhere. Back when I designed homes from scratch, I put floor heat in everywhere. And my my parents' home, which is the last house I designed new, has radiant floors and it's great. Yeah. Um saves them ridiculous amounts on heating, and it's marvelous. I actually even like in a mid-century house, I like old radiator baseboard heat. Sometimes forest air.

SPEAKER_00 50:26

But yeah, my sister has that in her Chicago house, and it feels just so nice and toasty in there. Exactly. Yeah, it's a really it's a pleasant heat source.

SPEAKER_02 50:35

I mean, you think about forest air. Sure, you can have a filter in the furnace, but you're blowing air around the house, you're recirculating dust from the basement into the main floor every day. And especially when you're heating. When you're cooling, a little bit of air movement is is cooling, even if you're not cooling the air. But when you're heating, you're blowing air past someone to warm them up. So even if it's hot air, it feels cooler.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, she has that baseboard heat, and then they also she has radiant heat in her original terrazzo in her front entryway. That's all radiant heat on the floor. That is lovely. It is lovely, such a cool house. Yeah, it really is. I'm like, it's cool, but it also was so thought out. It's so thoughtful. Like every single thing, you're like, what? That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 51:22

So yeah, but the best of a vintage house is when you get to admire all the clever things they did and try to preserve or build off of them and and even go further.

unknown 51:32

Great.

SPEAKER_02 51:33

So radiant floors of the bathroom. I think, yeah, if you're gonna go to the trouble of retiling, you might as well.

SPEAKER_00 51:37

Yeah, I feel like that's a really nice upgrade for such a small space that you do use a lot. I mean, most of the bathrooms I work on are tiny. I I rare, I have very few very large bathrooms that I've worked on. So mid-century bathrooms. Yeah, very tiny. I had one amazing client that had an enormous, it was original bathroom and closet. And then it had this, like it had a separate tub that was the original plan said it was supposed to be the whole tile tub, but it was a drop-in tub. So I don't know what happened to like what do they call those? Oh, a Roman tub that's all tiled, right? Below the floor, like hers was up, like you stepped up some stairs, so it looked like right, so like he was it was really wild. But then they had like saloon doors, right? The like the swinging doors on the toilet area, and then the shower was its own little capsule, and then um, it was like a really huge, and then there's it was just really wacky, but anyway, someone had already demoed half of it before she bought the house. Oh you know, so like we we came in and I knew like this was the first project. This this bathroom has no floors, so anyway, that's the largest bathroom, like closet I've ever, I think I've ever worked on for a client. And yes, we did heat the floors, um, and we and we separated it better where there was like there still was a tub and a shower, but they weren't through saloon doors. Um, yeah, anyway, she had this really big closet area and it functions way. It the layout is way better than the original, um, in my opinion. I'm sure it was the talk of the neighborhood though, when it was built.

SPEAKER_02 53:21

Doesn't it make you want to meet those original people who suspect that?

SPEAKER_00 53:25

Like, who did this? This is so cool, you know. It has like this little dressing area, and then this and the tub was just so enormous. It was half of the upstairs, like it was it is such a big part of this house. Yeah, it is fun to see stuff like that. And it wasn't that like from the outside, it's more of a two-story, it looks like a two-story traditional, but then when you walk in, it's a split level, it's like a side split.

SPEAKER_01 53:53

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 53:54

And then, oh no, it's like a side tri-level, it even goes up more. It's really large. Like you walk in and you gotta go up or down. Anyway, it just had a huge primary ensuite bathroom closet situation. So anyway, we yes, so that's probably the biggest one I've ever done. And that one is really pretty. It's a dark pink. Um, I'll send you a picture of that one. That one is really pretty. It's that's really fun. I I actually considered the color tile from my own bathroom. Um, but the only the thing is uh, oh, here's my one thing. I want trim tile. I do not want, I want base coat base tile. I want, you know, all of the real trim. So that's actually why I landed on fireplay more so than any of the other tile places I looked at that were more affordable.

SPEAKER_02 54:50

So that you could get that top cove edge rather than the sh. What is it? Schluter, shoulder?

SPEAKER_00 54:55

Schluter, yeah. I I don't love that. It's not terrible, but it's not my first choice. I have it in my kitchen and it's fine. It's not like that big of a deal. But in a bathroom, I want the base to cove, you know, into the floor tile, and then I want all the um the bullnose like to end. So like above our shower, that tile just goes above the shower, right? And so then above that, there's a piece, there's like traditional two by sixes with a nice little bait or cove, so it all kind of off nicely. Um, you know, our curved get in the shower, those are all nice and curved, and then they could go around all the windows. I just really that was important to me too. I didn't want all that schluter in there, and I know these are first world problems, Della.

SPEAKER_02 55:43

I know this, but no, but I I think it's actually a huge deal because that's the sort of thing that rings right or rings wrong. And I have I have a lovely master plan client who the one room in her house she'd done already was the bathroom. And she tried so hard to time capsule and she did an amazing job. At a glance, it looks just right. But when she came to me, she was like, and there's something weird about it. I tried so hard to be vintage, but it still feels modern. And I was looking at it, and it is all white tile, but you know, she's stack bonded, should the her fixtures and finishes were right, but it's got a slitter edge, and that really instantly says modern update, not not retro throwback. And so I think actually it's one it's so subtle, and as you say, it limits your sourcing options.

SPEAKER_00 56:31

It does, yeah. But it does matter. That pink tile was from Zia, and they have beautiful colors and they're really nicely affordable, but they don't have any trim. So that just out, no edges, yep. And then I know that is it BW tile, B and W tile. They do beautiful vintage stuff, but their pricing was way more than what I wanted to spend. More than fire clay. Yeah, isn't that wild? That's what everyone said to me. And I was like, Yep, I got the price. Well, I mean, also you have to remember that I get a trade discount and I promised photos, so I get a discount for, you know, so there's you know the back end of that as a person who's doing that, but yeah, it still was less expensive to do fire clay. So, um, but yeah, I mean, and I I definitely price shopped because BW did have all the trim pieces, all the you know, everything I could have wanted. Um, and who else? I mean, Del Tile has some decent four by fours, and they also do offer trim. Their color selection isn't as broad. So if you love, and I have done some of theirs, um, that they have a really pretty spa color, which is like a really soft blue. I've used that a couple of times. That is an excellent color, and they do have the trim, but theirs is a little more difficult to order. Like you don't have like a sales rep that can walk you through that. So I haven't used their trim pieces with it. But anyway, so that's important to me when doing the tile in a mid-century bathroom, are all the trim. I would say most people don't. That is not like a make it or break it.

SPEAKER_02 58:04

So it is something though, if if your goal is to hit a visual note, that's that is a make or to break detail. And then if you're just looking at like, I just want a good color, I just want it to be four by four, not subway tile, like yeah, any any color from any source, I'll do it.

SPEAKER_00 58:20

Yeah, yes, that there was a really pretty color from Zia that I was like almost set on. Then I was like, oh, they don't have any trim, and I I just can't do it, so I didn't. And it and it's nice and affordable too. It would have been a fraction, a fraction of the ghost. Um think of what else in a bathroom. I think the tile is important to me. I the other thing, let's talk about this. What about people who are only doing their bathroom to sell their house? Like, what are we doing?

SPEAKER_02 58:49

I this is a rant I've given so many times. I won't, I won't do it. Like, I uh the what do I need to do to sell the house? My answer is A, nothing. B clean it and put some stuff in storage, and then nothing. Like literally nothing. Just leave it alone. Frankly, leave it dirty. To me, it's better to just take your parents' furniture out of an old house and put it on the market than to like come in and tear off a whole bunch of original features and dumpster them and then be like, who wants a flip? I don't know. Right, right. I can't I can't stand it when people want to remodel something to sell it.

SPEAKER_00 59:31

Yeah. And I don't think I've had anyone come to me and say, we're selling, we want to hire you. It's more of, well, I don't think we're gonna stay that long. And so what should we do? And I'm like, I mean, I probably wouldn't do anything if you know you're gonna sell. I don't think there's a huge, and I'm not a realtor, so maybe a realtor would have different advice, but I do find it's hard. So, for example, someone just came to me and they're like, we're gonna replace this floor with what's it, LVT, the luxury vinyl tile.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:01

And I was like, I like the face I'm making right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:04

I know, I know, and I and I don't know if this woman will listen to the podcast, so I don't want to speak badly about it. And it she was lovely, but I was like, I wouldn't do that because it's gonna end up in a landfill eventually, maybe not tomorrow, but like what? I don't, I don't know. Yeah, it was it was kind, you know, they'd made up their mind, and I thought, well, I have a flooring guy, I'll give you my flooring guy. Like, you don't, if you've already chosen it and this is what you're doing, I I don't need to be involved. So um, and then they really want to do a kitchen, but she's like, we might move. I'm like, I don't know if I would do anything then.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:38

Yeah, I think I mean people in America move. We change jobs, we shift across the country, I know it. But I also think the to me, the fun of helping someone plan a remodel is to make is to tailor the house to the life they want to live now, five years from now, ideally forever, um, barring unforeseen consequences. Um, and yeah, I had I had a lovely realtor. Speaking of realtors who do or don't understand mid-century, which we talked about last time, um, I had a lovely realtor from the Minneapolis area get in touch with me. And she actually had a young family trying to sell their parents' house, and she was asking me for advice on how to remodel it. And she was like, Could I hire you to do a master plan for the house? And I was like, I don't think you should do anything to the house. I think you should sell it like a time capsule. And then she was like, Well, could you do a spec master plan so the next people could see what it could be? And I was like, Well, in theory, but actually no, because my process is so driven by the owner, like the people. Yeah, the people who live there. And so I I mean, I could come up with ad design, I could imagine people and put it into it, but I just feel like the purpose of spending money, time, materials, effort, labor on a remodel is to make it to make you happier, to make you smile every morning in the bathroom, to solve a problem, to make the house last longer, to care for it. So yeah, I just I I don't have any I don't have any advice for people who want to remodel for resale. Also, when you look at like even in people talk about the return on investment of remodeling costs. Yeah. And I feel like this is where we don't understand the term because it's always less than 100%. Right, yeah. What you're saying is you want to spend $100 to get back $80 in the sale. And I'm like, so you just spent $20 and gave it to somebody. Why why would you do that? That doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:37

I mean, I guess if the cost, the whole cost of the house goes up $100, and you only get eight, or I don't know. I'm sure there's some math problem there that I can't think through.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:45

Like when you look at it, the only projects that ever make a hundred or or more than make back what they cost to buy and do are front door and garage door replacements. So I'm like, sure, if you want to, I guess, but like also the next person pick it. But that also reflects the kind of home buyer I am where I'm looking for a project, I'm looking for other people's mistakes I can fix. I want the house that's marked down because it doesn't look appealing to someone and I see possibility in it. That's what I also want for my clients. But uh yeah. Well, yeah. And for your client who is gonna go with LVT, um, she's not my client, but a potential client. Yeah, I mean, I know I know why salespeople are selling it. It's very cheap. Uh, the but the costs are being externalized into the world, and it is relatively hard to damage, although it doesn't last very long. But yeah, I've definitely got better options.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:45

Yeah, I know. And I hate to be like a Debbie Downer about those selections, but it I guess it's hard to know. And I'm like, I I understand why, and I get the cost is affordable, it just doesn't feel like a long-term investment. It feels like someone at some point is gonna have to redo this, and then what? It's just sitting in the landfill. And you know what? This this particular house is amazing. It's one of those where you like drive by and you're like, I want I actually, this woman knew my sister somehow, so it was like 11 years ago. She was like, Hey, we're buying this house 11 years ago, and I finally got to see it a few weeks ago after 11 years. What a tease. I was like, I mean, I was excited to see it, but it was just funny. She's like, Yeah, time has kind of gotten away from us, and I'm like, it was 11 years ago you sent me that message, which is fine. We didn't like stay in touch, you know. It and it's no big deal. I just think it was so funny that all of a sudden I got this message, like, hey, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I know who this is and what house it is. And it was very, it was very cool. It's cool to finally see it. Um, they have family in other areas, so I understand even I even understand them eventually moving, but they bought at an amazing time, they have an amazing house. And if I were, if they were to hire me, I'd I'd just be like, I don't think this is the right choice. And I hate to say that because the choice is yours, of course. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:15

Ultimately, that is how it works.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:17

It's totally yours. And just like you said, like we are thinking of people who are gonna stay in the house for a long time. So the investment there is different than we might move, or this just works for our family better, or this works for our budget. And so, and I and I do understand all those things. It's not that I don't, but I think I think of the thing like I'm like you said, anything could happen and you could move and whatever. But like in reality, when we talk about stay, I'm like, we're staying until we're buried, like we're dead, we're gone, we're we're not moving. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:51

I'm not sure first first house project mistakes aside, I don't ever want to touch any part of my house twice. Now that of course It's paint siding has to be repainted every time you're like, but but like I don't want to remodel something in my house and then come back and remodel it again. This is maybe this here, let me just be a little catty and ranty right here at the end for anyone that's stuck with us this long. My very first job in high school was um sorting the stock room and filing receipts for a local interior design firm. It was really fun. I had no idea I wanted to be an architect. I just got the job because my neighbor who I used to babysit, her sister-in-law, was one of the partners in the firm. And I would go in after hours and just like tidy away fabric samples and file receipts. And, you know, it was like old-fashioned filing cabinets. There were drawers that were devoted to one household's client base. And it was like, here's their kitchen project, two inches of receipts, and here's their living room project, and here and I would go back through time. And once I noticed, I started to see it more and more. There were all these houses where they had gone through and done every room in the house and then come back around and they were redoing every room in the house. Oh no. This is like Greater Chicago suburbs, north side 90s. Um and I was just like, what is happening? What do you mean? You did your entire living room over like nine years ago, and now you're throwing out old, all of the furniture is and new custom valences, and it was like, you can just imagine what it looked like. Um anyway, I didn't approve of it then, I don't approve of it now. I was a snarky little high school student, not liking that, and I still think it's so wasteful to just wasteful, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:40

My mom would update her like um carpet in I don't know, 10 to 15, maybe 20 years seems like a long time. So maybe 15 years.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:50

There are things that wear out. I mean, yeah. I've got a little two-seater sofa in my living room that was my mom's that she got from a Danish import store in her youth. It's probably had 10 different fabric upholstery covers. We don't re-upholster it because it's failing, we re-upholster it because we're bored with the color and we want to do it again. But you know, yeah. But like, yeah, taste can change. Your style can change, but like the concept of like, I'm bored with my kitchen, I think I'll remodel it again.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:19

Like what? No. I I did have my big old sofa back here re-upholstered in this renovation, and I love it. I loved it before. It was blue.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:30

That's a great color. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:32

Now it's purple, and I it's just so different, and but it's still super comfy. It wasn't super expensive, which is wild. Um, it's from this company called Thrive Furniture that doesn't exist anymore. Um, they were like pre-joy bird, I guess. I don't really know the story, but yeah, and so it's still really comfy and nothing's like wonky. And I'm like, I don't know, but again, like I know how to get it reupholstered. I have a woman who does it, she's really affordable. I can get fabric in West Michigan for like zero dollars because there's fabric bolts coming out of everywhere, so it's just easy for me to do, but yeah, so I'm with you like reupholster, reuse, do not just like put it on the curb and hope it doesn't end up in the dump. Yeah, yikes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:22

So anyway, I think I'm three cheers for your bathroom project. It looks so good, and more than being what you like right now, it is remarried to the era of the house. So it's never gonna be the wrong choice for that space ever again. And it's just it's so cute. It's so cute. We'll put pictures on the show notes page and then if yeah, um, everyone can appreciate how adorable it is and make notes. Sure. This has been so much fun. We'll do it again soon, huh? Okay, anything we talked about that needs a link from this episode, you'll find at the show notes page at midmodest.com slash twenty five oh two. And we'll be back next week with more practical advice on what you can do to make long term improvements to your mid century bathrooms. If you need to. Catch you next week, Babe Model Modeler.