College Parent Central Podcast

#151 - Transition Takes Planning: A Conversation with Transition Specialist Kelly Challen

• Vicki Nelson, Lynn Abrahams, Elizabeth Hamblet

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In this episode, Vicki and Elizabeth sit down with transition specialist Kelly Challen to unpack what truly prepares teens for college and adult life: agency, executive function, and repeat practice with real responsibility. Kelly shares how to choose low-stakes experiments—having students email teachers, schedule their own tutoring, manage appointments, or learn to rebound from failures. We also talk about life skills we’ve all observed that quietly derail success—students’ ability to handle their own alarms, laundry, room hygiene, and basic routines. Whatever transition your student may be facing, this conversation will help you talk together about how to prepare.

Thank you for listening!

SPEAKER_00

Welcome to the College Parent Central Podcast. Whether your child is just beginning the college admission process or is already in college, this podcast is for you. You'll find food for thought and information about college and about navigating that delicate balance of guidance, involvement, and knowing when to get out of the way. Join your hosts as they share support and a celebration of the amazing experience of having a child in college.

Why Executive Function Matters

SPEAKER_02

Welcome to the College Parent Central Podcast. This is the podcast where we talk about just about everything we can think of that has to do with parenting, a student who's in high school and thinking about college, a student who is in college, and sometimes a student who's about to step out of college. Um, because it's a big job for us as parents. My name is Vicki Nelson, and I am a professor of communication at a small liberal arts college. But probably even more important, I am the mother of three daughters who have all gone to college and have come out on the other side, and we've all survived it. And I am here today um with one of my co-hosts and with a special guest, and I'm very excited about this. Um I was I was I stumbled on something on the internet a little while ago, and it was this wonderful article about using post-its to help students or help your kids learn about executive functioning. Um and it really struck a chord um because I was thinking of two things. I was thinking of uh one of my grandsons who uh has ADHD and is try is in middle school trying to uh get a handle on everything and how he's going to function increasingly independently. Um and then I was also thinking of the college freshmen that I teach who need a lot of help to figure out how to manage on their own. So this article just struck a chord for me. And then I was talking with Elizabeth, my co-host, whom I'm going to allow to get a word in edgewise and introduce herself in a minute. Um and she said, Oh yes, I know Kelly Challenge who wrote the article. We we work together. So um then it was a done deal that we had to get Kelly on the podcast. So, with that being said, um, I'm going to toss it over to Elizabeth Hamlet, my co-host, and let her take it from here.

SPEAKER_03

Well, thanks, Vicki. Um Elizabeth Hamlet. I am a college uh learning disabilities specialist and author of Seven Steps to Success, a pathway. I'm sorry, Seven Steps to College Success, a pathway for students with disabilities. And so I am so delighted to have our guest here. And what Vicky has so kindly not mentioned is I've actually been nagging her about getting Kelly on the podcast. He's so polite.

SPEAKER_02

I just didn't connect the dots when I read the article that this was the same person you had been talking about.

SPEAKER_03

So because Kelly and I connected a few years ago um through a professional experience, but I have since um been devouring all of her writing. She is a really, really smart, thoughtful uh professional who is helping students with college transition and other kinds of transitions, as she will discuss. Um and executive functioning is certainly a huge part of what I help my students with at the college level. Um, so I was just so tickled when Vicky emailed me and said, Hey, I came across this post. This woman's name seems familiar to me. So finally we have Kelly here on the podcast. So um, with that, I'm gonna let Kelly talk a little bit more about what she does, what a transition specialist is, and um we'll take it from there.

Meet Kelly Challen And Her Work

Planning Beyond Graduation

SPEAKER_01

Sure. Um, thank you so much, Vicki and Elizabeth, for having me here today. I'm really excited to be on and be able to talk with you both. Um I am Kelly Challenge. I'm a transition specialist and the founder of Challen Education and Transition Services. And so I have the pleasure of working with teenagers and young adults, um, sort of anywhere between ages 12 all the way up to late 20s, which is an exciting period of time to get to work with young people. Many of the folks that I work with have disabilities or learning differences, and I get to work with them during K-12 education as well as afterwards, with the focus of really helping them move from high school into college, into employment, into more independent living or other post-secondary kinds of paths based on their own goals. Um a lot of my focus is planning beyond the IEP, but certainly not every student I work with has been on an IEP or has even been on a 504 plan. And I guess when I think about transition planning, it's helping to not just think about graduation. I think we can sort of focus on end of high school as a finish line that we're getting to. And what I try to really help students that I work with to focus on is readiness for the adult activities that come after that. It's setting the goals around the adult activities that come after that. Um, I tend to really focus on three different buckets of planning. Um, what are your independent living types of goals? And that can also have to do with how you engage in your community. Um, what are your learning or training goals for after high school? And then what are you thinking about for working? And I talk a lot with students too about um what's the first job you want to have, right? Not just what are your long-term goals around employment, but what's the very first thing you think you might want to get paid for? Um, what could you see yourself doing? So it's really that living, learning, and working activities and that focus on preparing for life beyond high school. Um, and I will do transition planning with obviously students in K-12 education, but you can transition plan as an individual from any point in your life, right? I mean, we could all sit here as adults who have careers and think, what do I want to be doing in my independent life? Do I want to do any more learning or training? You know, are there work activities I haven't gotten to take part in yet that would really be goals for me in the future? And so those areas of living and learning and working can be used to plan from any point in time an individual's at. Um, so that's me in a nutshell. Um, and kind of the idea of transition planning. And I do conduct transition assessments and I do consultation, I do some coaching for students getting ready for college, I do some coaching for students who are planning to get out of college. Um, but really anything that I can do with students through that transition planning lens, I'm excited to do. And I certainly do a lot of professional development and training and speaking around that too.

SPEAKER_03

And Kelly and I will be doing our first co-presenting uh gig next month. So we're very excited. Um, it's been a lot of fun working with her. That's great.

SPEAKER_02

And and Kelly, you're you're I think about a step ahead of me because you've you've answered some of what uh question that I had. Um, and I think it's really fascinating because as you said, you know, we all go through these transitions all the time. But I think so often we think about a transition um as something that happens to us. Uh certainly, you know, we talk to the freshmen. I teach a lot of freshmen, and and we say, you know, this is a big transition for you. And um, but the idea of planning for transition, of uh feeling as though you have control over that transition is is really very different than just sitting back and saying, this thing is going to happen. I wonder how it's going to go. Um, so it's fascinating the work that you do. And I assume you work with the students who are going to be transitioning, but also with parents.

SPEAKER_01

I do. I do um I work with parents a lot, and I provide a lot of parent consultation and preparation and coaching and sort of especially help um allowing students to set their own goals and thinking about the steps to reach those goals. Um and anytime I'm working with parents, I'm also very honest with them that my priority is always going to be the student's vision for themselves and how we can get to that, um, how we can understand uh students' goals. Students do not always have realistic goals for themselves, but I'm sure none of us did either when we, you know, when we were teenagers. And I think whether you're a student uh who has disabilities or not, um, we need to create a sense of agency for students, that it's okay to set a goal, try something, have that work or not work, um, but really be empowered to be in charge. And that's that's one of the biggest pieces of transition planning for students is that sense of agency, is that sense of control, um, and is helping the adults in the student's life to relinquish that control a little bit. Um, so that's a big piece of the parent work.

Agency For Students And Roles For Parents

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So as a college learning disability specialist, that is, you know, the specific population that I work with. And so a lot of who Kelly works with are students with disabilities. And, you know, what I what we see in the research um is that and and and anecdotally in my community of professionals where, you know, other colleagues are writing in about the issues with students, you know, some of what we're seeing is they are coming to college be accustomed to a lot of adult support and direction, um, and not a lot of agency, as you said, and independence. Um, and so, you know, part of what Kelly and I have been talking about too is you know, here's what I'm saying, here's what we're seeing on the college end, what what could be happening at the high school, you know, end of this this transition that would help. And I imagine that sometimes parents see students doing very well, you know, certainly academically, perhaps, you know, just uh in general, um executive function-wise, seemingly, like things are pulled together because of the amounts of sometimes, you know, invisible support that they're getting, um, structure in place. And when you talk to them about trying to pull back some of those supports, which I think is really important in truly assessing whether this student has the skills needed wherever they're going after high school, but that there's resistance, understandably, on parents' part, because they see the student doing well. And in some cases, they've gotten to that place from uh from where the students were not doing well. And so the idea of taking away supports is terrifying. So, how do you talk to them a little bit about their concerns that their student might, you know, failure can mean a lot of different things and take a lot of different shapes, but how do you talk to them about it?

Scaling Back Supports Without Derailing School

SPEAKER_01

I I think there is so much nuance um in this topic. Uh, we could probably spend the entire time together talking about this. I mean, I I think one of the first places to come from with anyone you're working with, right? But certainly with parents, is validating that this is stressful, this is scary. And I think what's so hard about high school engagement when you're preparing for college is there are some stakes here, right? Um, when a student is in high school and we're asking parents to start to scale back support, or asking parents to ask teachers and other people to start to scale back support, there is a risk that students will struggle, right? There is a risk that a student may bomb a test, or, you know, if they're working on getting up in the morning, be late to school. There and there are risks about things that could affect the student's record, which then does affect their applications. And that is something that people are quite worried about. Um, what I try to talk about a little bit is that there are even bigger risks to not scaling back and having the student head off to college or head off to other adult activities without having had the opportunity, right? We talk a lot about where would where would you prefer a student to fail, right? Or a student to struggle. And I think many parents would much prefer to be able to be there, be with their student, be able to support them, be able to reassure them. Um, you know, if a student goes through some of that struggling at home, as opposed to in the dorm, or as opposed to uh on the other side of the country. Um, so I think it's just I'm I'm a large believer in helping people to understand reality and what's realistic and sort of playing out different scenarios in terms of what happens if we don't scale back support now. And I think as as you and I talk about often, there's also just sometimes misunderstandings about what the future will look like and can look like in terms of levels of support. So there are certainly those conversations to have. But um, I think a different, you know, a piece of this strategy also is talking about what are the risks that you feel like you could let your child take, right? What are the small steps that you might be willing to let them take? You know, is it emailing a teacher when they've missed an assignment or when they need to get work before they're going to miss school for a medical appointment, right? Is it letting them manage scheduling one of their tutoring sessions or one of their appointments on their own? Is it, you know, are there things that they could allow the student to miss or forget comfortably, right? Maybe it's not a midterm exam, but maybe it is a homework assignment, or maybe there's a class where things are a little bit lower stakes that they feel like they could allow a student to start taking some more autonomy in. So I'm always looking for what's possible. You know, it's sort of when we're resistant to change, I'm always looking for, well, where is there wiggle room here? Where is there something you could be comfortable with as a parent? Um, you know, and where's your student motivated so they might actually be more successful with less support and really sort of trying to find um the easiest point of access and uh the easiest point for reducing some of those supports.

SPEAKER_02

You know, what strikes me as you're describing all of that is also um not only letting it letting that failure, if we call it that, happen while parents are there to support it, but once students go away to school, it may be happening and parents don't know about it. I mean, so many of the students that I see that have trouble and and parents are clueless. So getting that sort of heads up um while they're home is even more important.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I was gonna say, if I might, and and Vicky, you and I, our most recent um podcast together was about the vocabulary of the college uh disability services environment specifically and the changes there. And so, you know, part of that is understanding um that they're not gonna have the access, that the case managers do very different things. And so, you know, as Kelly alluded to, they are expecting sometimes this level of attention to their student by adults, you know, at the college, by staff and faculty, that just isn't going to be there. And so was when Kelly was talking about, you know, they they have to schedule one of their learning um specialists, understanding that, you know, college staff really isn't responsible, for instance, for chasing students. So when a student, the way that I get students where I work is an email goes out. Some students don't read their emails, they never see it. Um, we do not send a follow-up email from my office. Um, once they respond to me, I go back to them and say, Here are my available times. Sometimes that's where the the communication trail ends. Um, you know, or I hear from them two weeks later and they say, Hey, you know, do you have something tomorrow? And I have to say, no, I'm already booked. So the things that families are accustomed to are not things that that we necessarily provide. And so I think talking to them about the exceptions that are being made, the flexibility that their students are getting, because I think sometimes that stuff is invisible.

College Systems Are Not High School

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. And um I have um, you know, different checklists that I like to use. Uh Elizabeth knows I sort of have one that I've put together over the years. It's just 31 must have college readiness skills. But there are lots of checklists on the internet. And it's um, I'm a big believer in in data. And what's interesting is if a parent and a student fill out something like that together, sometimes, you know, it has the skills that we know are important for college success. And sometimes when they're filling those types of things out, they'll say, Oh, well, he won't need to do that in college. Right. And so it opens the door. Um, sometimes that alone helps parents to understand what's going to be expected. And then they have an aha moment in terms of what number of skills or what number of responsibilities a student needs to be learning and building. Um, but sometimes it's really there's a sense of disbelief there. And then the work is around uh learning more about what's realistic in college, um, and you get a sense of where to focus in, um, which is just so important. I there's a there's a certain amount of psychoeducation that's part of this transition process, right? It's sort of learning about the realities of college, learning the vocabulary of college. Um and, you know, you can't be self-aware, you can't sort of know what to expect if you don't know what the realities are of college.

SPEAKER_03

When you have parents who say, well, you know, oh, it doesn't matter that the college won't provide a learning specialist or an executive functioning coach or somebody to meet with my kid, you know, three times a week. And but we can provide it, or I'll be that support for my student. Um, you know, how do you talk to them? And also I'm curious about whether you get a gauge of the students' response to that. You know, how do where where are students in all of this as their parents are, you know, feeling understandably?

Readiness Checklists And Reality Checks

SPEAKER_01

I I think students are all over the place in that, you know, some students would be delightfully happy to have the same exact level of support that they have in high school for their entire adult lives. I'd be happy to have that level of support as an adult, right? I mean, I'd be happy to have somebody else hand me a schedule for the day, tell me what I'm cooking for dinner, right? So I think some students are, you know, are uh would be happy to have that. I I think the reality is there is a lot that you can outsource. There is a lot that you could privately pay for when making this transition to college, um, but there's a lot that you cannot. And so, you know, it's it's running through that exercise again of okay, if you were going to uh pay for a support program as part of college, or if you're gonna pay for private executive function coach, you know, what are the limits on what that person can do and what the student still has to do? I mean, there are expectations that colleges have, right, systemically in terms of what students will be responsible for themselves. There are ethics codes in terms of what students need to actually do on their own. Uh, so again, it goes to some of that, you know, information. I mean, I think external supports can help, but they can't replace internal skill, right? Um, you can't you can't outsource ownership over the college process. And it's not successful to do that because a student who requires a really high amount of, you know, a student who's going to require tutoring and academic coaching and you know, and is going to be spending a significant number of hours per day using supports so that they can manage the academics of college. Has an enormous amount of work ahead of them, right? And is going to need an enormous amount of grit to get through that. And there are students I work with who are very much up for that. And it's incredible, right? And we talk about the that, you know, those students actually being able to manage, you know, the college experience four or five classes at a time with all of that support, they will miss some of the social life of college. They may miss some of the important networking that would be helpful for employment later. Um, but they're up for it. And so as long as everyone's on the same page about the amount of work it's gonna take and the amount of resources, you know, financial, emotional, time resources that it will take, that's something that could be part of a plan for a student. Um, but students and parents also need to understand what a student's giving up, you know. Um, and if a parent says they're gonna do it themselves, I think the risk there as opposed to a paid provider who understands the college system is that often parents don't understand the college system, don't understand, you know, what would I need my student to actually give me access to to make sure they were turning in their work, you know, to make sure they were attending their classes. Um so I think it's a it's a big risk when a parent thinks they're gonna be the support for the transition, uh, if they're trying to keep that in place. Uh it's an enormous cost if they're expecting other people to do it. I mean, I think there's always a benefit to reducing support to whatever extent is possible in high school and increasing autonomy to whatever extent is possible in high school. And that does look different for different students. And then there are all different kinds of colleges that students can attend. Um, there are some things that colleges just absolutely cannot do, but there there is flexibility um from one college to another in terms of um how small and how supportive and how personal the relationships are and things like that.

SPEAKER_02

You know, it really makes me wonder if a student needs that high level of all of these sports in college, what happens to them after college? What you know are parents going to continue to hire coaches who are going to be able to go to work with the with the student? And I I mean it just at some point it it seems they have to launch.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, and at some point there, I mean, there has to be internal motivation there. It it's also there's this piece of when we overfunction and overhelp students, we're implicitly sending a bit of a message that we don't believe they can do it, or that we don't believe they, you know, have the and and there's a difference between not having learned to do something yet, or not having a good executive function system for being able to do something consistently yet, and and just really not being capable, right? And I think uh I think sometimes it's not recognized that adults are sending that message, um, or that a student is internalizing that message, even if that's not what's intending to be sent. And that that's a really high risk, then, Vicky, for you know, students thinking they need, right? I I can't possibly do a job unless I have a coach, you know, five hours a week who's gonna process with me at the end of the day or go to the job site with me. And we really uh I think students are capable of a lot more, um, but haven't had the opportunities to plan and problem solve and initiate and structure for themselves yet.

What You Can Outsource And What You Can’t

SPEAKER_03

And Kelly, I would assume that you also interact with like whatever it's called in everybody's state, the Department of Vocational Rehab, um, which for students, and it varies from state to state, may be eligible for you know, from some supports from DVR, um either for college or to go into a job site, but I think um it's not as many students as perhaps parents would like to see receiving support. And I I'm so glad that you said that about you know students' sense of self-efficacy too and the messages that they're internalizing, because um right, un until they've been given a chance to try something, we don't know what they're capable of doing. And, you know, it doesn't mean that you just, you know, shove them off the ledge and and hope that they fly, but starting to model for your students what you're doing, you know, being explicit in your everyday life with them about what you are doing, how you are supporting them, you know, eventually, turning over control and and and mastery of this stuff to them and understanding and being patient with the fact that it won't always work out, as you've said. You know, sometimes they're gonna miss an appointment. I miss appointments and I'm a really good executive functioner. Um, but that is life. And also, so that resilience piece, too. You know, this idea that they can never ever experience any kind of even, you know, tiny, tiny failure. Um, I think doesn't allow them the opportunity to see that they'll they'll make it through, it will be a bummer. And you know, they might have to apologize, they you know, they might have to inconvenience themselves for to to make something up, but that they can do it.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, but I think that competence builds confidence. And uh, when they finally see that they can do the things that others have been doing for them, you know, to your point, yes, some of them would be delighted to always have somebody around, but I I do worry about that anxiety that some of them might go to college with, that they have never been able to be successful without a whole lot of adult help.

SPEAKER_01

I think we have, I mean, I I know, right? We know now through research that this is more of a complication for many teenagers is having that anxiety and that worry that they can't do things on their own and having had those fewer problem-solving opportunities and being a little bit more um reliant on parents in particular. Um, it's it's a generation that is much more connected with their parents, and there are wonderful positives to that. But college is absolutely a system that expects students to be somewhat individuated from their parents. Um and as we were talking about before, a little bit, I mean, there are certain things you can do for a college student and there are certain things you cannot. You know, I cannot register for my child with disability support services.

unknown

Correct.

SPEAKER_01

Right? Um, I can't show up to the tutoring session for them. So so there are just certain things that um you you can't pay for, you can't do for. Um, and we want students to know they can do it and they can miss an appointment, and that's okay. They can reschedule it, you know, not always as quickly as they want to. Um, but really um wanting students to know that they have those abilities and that they have some problem-solving systems on their own. Uh, I had a parent I was working with not that long ago who really wanted to know like which life skills are the very most important life skills to start with. And my answer was that really it's the what do you do when you don't know the life skill skill? You know, is it that the student knows that they are comfortable looking things up on YouTube when they need to learn how to problem solve something new? You know, is it that they're comfortable using an AI chat bot to help them, you know, create a task analysis to be able to do a task? You know, what what is it that a student uh can do when they hit the one skill that they didn't learn how to do? Whether that's writing a check, you know, which we do so infrequently that we all sort of forget how to do it at this addressing an envelope. But it happens sometimes. So uh so I think there are so many skills that are important to learn because they make you feel that confidence and competence as you're making transitions. And then knowing that you have some you know, some ability to problem solve when you hit a new skill, because we all do in life, is also really critical for young people. So um yeah.

Overhelping, Anxiety, And Launching After College

SPEAKER_02

That skill of asking questions and and asking for help. Uh so many students, uh all kinds of students, you know, executive function or not, just don't ask for help. And they and they it seems as though they have this feeling that being independent means you have to do everything yourself and you can't rely or or ask other people. Um so so you're talking you know a lot about the you know the the things that they can't do and and and how to help them. What are are are are there a couple of things that you find many students struggle with? What are the kinds of things that really might they might encounter as a roadblock?

SPEAKER_01

I I mean I certainly think waking up on their own, as basic as that sounds, is is something that very few students really do nowadays. Some of my students, it's like they know how to set the alarm, but then there's still a parent prompt somewhere in that routine before they're making it out the door. And I again I understand that often, you know, high school starts at hours that are not, you know, not really humanly appreciative of where adolescents are and how much sleep they need. But it's we have an episode with Lisa about uh teens and sleep, don't we? Yeah, but it but that's an important skill. I mean, laundry is a funny one that students just haven't always always done. And um I think I had heard a different, I don't know if it was something I read on the internet or a different episode that was talking about a student who hadn't learned to change their bed sheets. And so the parent was planning to allow them to just put six sets of bed sheets on their bed, like one on top of another, take one set of sheets off per week, and then in six weeks the parent would come up and do the laundry and you know, rechange the other. Well, and it's interesting, I think you can see it from either perspective, and that's what's amazing, right? You could say that's extreme, like why can't this kid just learn this skill? Or you could say, is that the hill you know that you want to die on? Is that and I I think there's a picking and choosing for each student of which skills are more important. I tend to think if a student's going to be far away from home, laundry is a really important skill, and students seem to not be getting as much exposure to that. Medication management is a big one. If you happen to be somebody who needs medication, especially for attention or mood or other things, making sure that students really, and it's not just can I take my medications every day, but do I know what to do when it needs refilling? Um, and some of that could be done automatically, but sometimes it's not a perfect system. So uh really students managing that can be critical.

SPEAKER_03

But you know, I that sheet example is such a good one because, first of all, I mean, we don't know anything about the family. Did the family try to teach the student how, you know, explicitly how to change their sheets? And if not, you know, I still every once in a while look on YouTube for a better ironing strategy. And I realize college students are not ironing, but in other words, that is a strategy, like here are the number of sheets we're gonna provide you with. We think it's a good idea for you to wash them regularly, and like that that seeking out of how that it's self-advocacy, right? I'm struggling with this. Maybe I could get on the internet and find somebody to help me too. Because what I also think about is like maybe the roommate sees them do that, and maybe there's a sense of embarrassment by the student with the successive sheets that they don't they haven't learned to do. Now, again, I don't assume anything, but you think we're we're leaving out that piece of the confidence and you know, just even the social acceptability of not being able to do certain things that perhaps they might have if they'd had a chance to try and had some instruction.

Building Self-Efficacy And Resilience

SPEAKER_01

Well, and I realize I focused on life skills because I think those are sometimes forgotten, but there are certainly, you know, academic things that students are just not used to managing some of the deadlines or long-term assignments in the way that you need to in college. Um volume of work. I mean, there are surprises because the systems are quite different. And I think when you think about transitioning to college, you're making a lot of learning and a lot of living changes all at the same time. So anything that can be done to front load being used to, you know, to more in in either one of those buckets is really helpful in terms of managing that transition. Um, and there the social piece that you're mentioning, right? It's a college is a weird social system. It's you know, living with a bunch of adolescents is such a unique experience. Um, and there are lots of things that can come up. And certainly if you're someone who's not comfortable advocating or asking for help, right? There are so many um risks or just discomforts that can come along with that. So uh I think it's just really needing to appreciate the number of variables that are changing and whatever we can do to help students prepare for that number of variables. And when you were talking about self-advocacy and asking for help, Vicki, I just kept thinking, I almost think that asking for help is a phobia for, you know, 18-year-olds today, the way that public speaking is for most people, you know, and we're all sitting here on a podcast, so I'm assuming we're pretty comfortable talking, but it's because we've spent a lot of time practicing talking in front of other people and to other people. And the number of opportunities a 17 or an 18-year-old has had today where they actually had to ask if ask for help, actively ask for help, ask a stranger for help, even getting to be, you know, asking, you know, customer service for help in a store. I mean, there's so many fewer opportunities to practice that. So we do need to like push those opportunities in for students earlier if we want them to feel even remotely comfortable doing that when they're in a college system.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I was just saying, and just when it comes again to students with disabilities, very often I hear stories about students, you know, sitting down and working with a specialist or tutor who makes them do their homework and who is there at every moment to, you know, to answer questions. And that is taking away their ability to, you know, self-motivate and organize and to um figure out how to assess whether they've understood what they're working on and frame a question and then all the parts about when is help available, office hours, okay, my professor is available when I'm in class. What am I gonna does that mean it's over? I'm done, I I failed a class. Or do I email the professor to say, gee, Professor Nelson, you're you know, you're available when I'm not, can you can you help me with this? And those are all things that they'll feel more comfortable doing if they have practice.

SPEAKER_02

So I mean we we probably should wrap up soon, but we we said before we started that we could keep going and going. Um if a parent perhaps has not gone to college themselves or went to college a long time ago, and college is a little different now. Um you know, so I I saw a a little thing of a professor who who just did something with his students where he m he gave them each a question and they had to find the answer not using their phones, they had to go to the library to find the answer, and they didn't know how to do anything. But if a parent uh doesn't have that experience, how how would you suggest they begin to think about what it is that their student needs to practice?

Life Skills That Commonly Trip Students Up

SPEAKER_01

I think what's wonderful is that that parent does have a cell phone. And and we we have so many, you know, aside from like I just keep thinking of like Animal House and like you know, weird college movies, but we have so many other types of media these days to learn about what college is actually like. So certainly, you know, for all parents, um, I know Elizabeth is also a fan. I'm a huge fan of The Naked Roommate by Harlan Cohen, and he has a first-year experience that he's doing with students. And I think what's great is um that Harlan is constantly interviewing students, any people, interviewing people in education, updating that resource. And so um that ends up being a great resource for parents to read through, for you know, parents for students to do the audio version of, to just learn about like what is college really like? What are some of the challenges that really come up? Um, for students, if you're parenting a student with learning disabilities or diagnoses, somebody who's going to need disability services in college, I always recommend Elizabeth's book, right? I think that's seven steps to college. It's just, it's the same thing. Um, you have done such a nice job of making sure that it's got current research, that it has information from many different um perspectives on disability support, but also that you've covered all of the details of the process. I mean, there's a chapter on everything in your book in terms of really understanding what reality is going to be for students transitioning to college with learning disabilities. So I think there are those great book resources. There are also, and I guess I should add some like caution tape around this, but there are also wonderful parent communities online where parents are talking about their current experiences, whether that's you know, parents of typically developing or there's lots of wonderful information that you can get on what college realistically looks like right now. It's also, I mean, you can start. You know, I don't I don't think as a parent, I want necessarily like eighth graders going on college tours. They could, but we don't want to pour the pressure on super early. But as a parent, like you could go on a college tour and just get a sense of what college is, you know, like at this point, if that's not something that um you were exposed to or that you were exposed to recently. You can do all sorts of college tours virtually online these days. So I think it's it's really just um, you know, taking time, not that any of us have time as parents, but taking a little bit of time to think about, okay, I want to make sure that I understand what college is like so that I can then help my child really understand what college is like and where those stumbling blocks might be. Um, it is quite different, right? The electronic systems are quite different. Uh the, I mean, social life of young people is quite different. Um, the things that were risks 40 years ago on a college campus are quite different than the things that are risks right now on a college campus. And and there are a lot of wonderful first-year college coaches and first-year transition kinds of people. And it's it's wise to at least go to some of their workshops and hear about, you know, what they notice are some of the biggest challenges for students because there are some really universal things that are challenging or complicated about this transition. And so I think you can learn a lot, you know, just go listening to a 45-minute podcast or going to a 60-minute webinar. And I guess I didn't say this, Vicky, but certainly if someone's listening to this podcast, listen to more College Parent Central podcasts.

SPEAKER_02

I was going to get that in, so thank you.

SPEAKER_03

Oh my gosh, and the you know, decade worth of wonderful written posts that Vicky has. We've got a lot of it.

SPEAKER_02

And that really was really, really how we started. Yes, is just saying I I I remember when my first child went off to college and I was overwhelmed with trying to make sense of it all. And I work in higher education. So I said, if I don't get it, then there must be other people who need it. So yes, thank you. We have we've just I think this may be episode 152 or something. So we've just hit that 150 uh mark in terms of podcast episodes. So we got a lot out there.

Academic Volume, Deadlines, And Social Systems

SPEAKER_01

Well, and something that I loved, Vicky, you know, we're talking a lot about transition to college, but you had a wonderful episode of College Parent uh Central that was um the transitioning back to the second semester. And I and we don't think about that, we think about how hard that that first semester is, and there are all sorts of other pains about going back after the holidays. And so I really think again, as a parent, you do not know what you don't know. Um as a high school student, you really have no idea what to expect from the transition. And so the fact that you guys have spent so much time meeting with different acts. experts talking about different you know aspects of college that it's just a wonderful resource for students and families and so are you so what what would you uh what would what would you leave parents with what what would be your bottom line if you could give one overall uh piece of advice to parents so um I guess the one piece of advice to think about is uh that if a student doesn't feel completely ready to make the college transition at the end of 12th grade um that's okay you know it's okay to take a step in a different direction what's wonderful is gap year experiences have become more normalized and what we know is when students take a gap year they're more successful when they end up progressing onto college after that there are different ways to do college in terms of starting at community college that's even a really wonderfully more affordable option these days because some states have free community college access and sometimes community colleges have agreements with four-year colleges to transfer. So I think you know if college feels really important in your student's future and especially if it's important to your student, I just think it's important to know that college isn't done in a one size fits all way. There are lots of ways to do college and if you're worried because it doesn't seem like your child's going to be able to make the transition to college in the traditional way that's totally fine.

SPEAKER_02

That's great advice and more and more students are doing it in different different ways.

SPEAKER_03

Some are on the five year plan and they just need to go a little more slowly to the five or the six year six yeah well there you go yeah I think the National Center for Edge Statistics only tracks six and eight year completion rates.

SPEAKER_01

I don't think they even bother with four year four year completions a little bit less than 50% and six year completions a little bit less than 70% in terms of students who enroll as first time. So I I think it's just it's okay if it doesn't look the way that we think it was supposed to look there's lots of ways to do it. So if people would like to hear more from you read more of these wonderful articles or check in how can they find you so um I do have a website it's just www.challentransitions dot com spelled um ch a l-l-e n transitions dot com. I try to put out things that are really current and important to students and families there. And I'm easily available on social media, you know, LinkedIn Facebook Instagram YouTube they're all basically at Kelly K-E-L E Y Challen transitions. And I'm super Googleable to make up a new word. I you know if you heard this podcast and you were driving and the only three words you remember are Kelly Challenge transition, I am certain you can find me through that type of Google search.

SPEAKER_02

And we will um put all of that in the show notes and so people can follow there. Well thank you so much for taking time to talk to us to talk to everybody who's listening um lots we can do to help our students get ready.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely thank you so much Vicky for finding me through my that was a planning beyond the IEP sub stack that you ended up reading about the poster so I'm glad you found me and I really appreciate being invited to join you guys.

SPEAKER_02

Thanks again and to everybody thank you for staying with us to the end and to listening and we'll see you next time