College Parent Central Podcast

#158 - Summer Reads 2026

• College Parent Central • Season 7 • Episode 158

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Chasing the “dream school” can quietly turn college admissions into a stress contest, and it doesn’t have to. We’re sharing our annual summer reading list for college parents, with books that help you step back, ask better questions, and support your student without getting pulled into rankings anxiety. If you’ve been wondering how to talk about fit, finances, and what your child actually needs to thrive, these reads give you a calmer, clearer way in.

We start with Jeffrey Selingo’s Dream School: Finding the College That’s Right for You, plus the bigger perspective his work brings to the college search. We talk about why the most famous schools aren’t automatically the best schools, how rankings can distort decisions, and how to reframe “What’s your dream school?” into questions about learning environment, outcomes, and support. We also touch on Selingo’s “buyers and sellers” idea, a practical way to understand recruiting, merit aid, and why some colleges compete hard for students.

From there, we widen the lens to what’s happening emotionally for both students and parents. Brad Stolberg’s Master of Change introduces “rugged flexibility,” a useful mindset for major life transitions. Jennifer Breheny Wallace’s Mattering explores belonging and purpose as real needs, not buzzwords, and we connect that to the college transition. We also recommend a striking poem that captures what neurodiversity can feel like from the inside, a hands-on guide to rekindling motivation when a bright kid seems checked out, and a fascinating look at how the arts can support mental health and brain function, even for students who swear they’re “not artistic.”

If you want a summer reading list that’s practical, humane, and full of conversation starters, come listen, then share this with a fellow college parent and leave us a review so more families can find the support. Which book are you adding to your list first?

Thank you for listening!

Welcome And Why We Record

SPEAKER_00

Welcome to the College Parent Central Podcast. Whether your child is just beginning the college admission process or is already in college, this podcast is for you. You'll find food for thought and information about college and about navigating that delicate balance of guidance, involvement, and knowing when to get out of the way. Join your hosts, Vicki Nelson and Lynn Abrahams, as they share support and a celebration of the amazing experience of having a child in college.

SPEAKER_02

Welcome to the College Parent Central podcast. As you know, if you are a regular listener, we talk about all the kinds of things here that have to do with being the parent of a college student or the parent of a student in high school who's thinking about college, and sometimes even the parent of a student who has just graduated. So we cover we try to cover it all. My name is Vicki Nelson, and I am here with my co-host Lynn Abrahams. And we are uh both parents and we are both college workers. Well, I am a professor, and Lynn is I, you know, Lynn will forever be a college employee, even though she's retired. Um, and she can tell you a little more about herself. But I have three daughters as well. And so my daughters have all gone to college, and I've lived through this experience with them. And uh I also work with students every day. So I know some of the uh things that they are facing. So, Lynn, you can probably do a better job of introducing yourself than I can.

SPEAKER_01

So I um I'm a learning specialist. I've been working with college students for many years who have learning differences. And I have just retired from my full-time job. Not just. It's actually been a little while, but it feels like just. Um I also am the mom, as Vicky mentioned, uh of two sons who have been in and out and through college. And Vicki and I started doing this when our kids went to college. And we were both working in a higher ed environment, and we were overwhelmed. And we thought, if we're overwhelmed and we work here, you know, how how must other parents feel? So that's when this sort of started.

SPEAKER_02

And it started because we used to talk to each other all the time. And at some point, just decided to hit record while we were doing it, and next thing you know, here we are, uh, seven years later. Seven years later. So so there are lots of episodes. If you are new to listening to the College Parents Central podcast, be sure to check out um what else we have because a lot of those topics are timeless. And if you're new to this world, um might be helpful. But one of the things, so seven years, one of the things we have done every year at about this time is an episode of summer reads. Um, lots of people have a little more time, maybe some time spent on the beach in the summer, um, and maybe looking for something to read, um, or may just feel as though, oh dear, my students going to college, and I'd better do read up a little bit and learn a little more. So we've each picked a couple of our favorite books for parents, uh, and we just want to talk a little bit about them, introduce you to them, and perhaps uh one or two or several will be things you want to pick up over the summer. So I'm gonna start. Uh, and I am starting with a book by one of our absolute favorite authors, uh, Jeffrey Salingo. And there are three books that he has written now. I think he has another one or two, but three books that are just some of the best out there uh if you're if you're in this college admissions world or uh or have a college student. Um one of them is called There Is Life After College, which is really about how students can make the most of their experience in college to get ready for career. Uh, and I I recommend all three of these. And the second one is called Who Gets In and Why, uh, where Celingo embedded himself in admissions offices, several admissions offices, for a year,

Rethinking The Dream School Idea

SPEAKER_02

and talks about the admissions process and how um how they make decisions and how it works. And if you uh uh have a student coming up on the admission process, I recommend that. But the book I want to talk about is his newest book, and it's called Dream School Finding the College That's Right for You. Um in Who Gets It and Why, uh, Salingo talks about the admissions process from the college perspective. And in Dream School, he's really helping parents and students think about how they make their decisions about which college is the right one. Um, and I I think the bottom line of his book is that to perhaps let go of some of those ideas that the dream school are necessarily the Ivy League schools and the names that everybody knows, but that your dream school should be the one that is the right fit for you, the one that is going to support you the best and feel right and and all of those sorts of things, uh, rather than focusing on um just the names that everybody knows. So he talks about why why rankings don't nearly mean nearly as much as as we think they do. Um he ties it into finances too, because you know, the money is an issue for lots and lots and lots of us. Um and he he talks more about something he talks about in in the admissions book, um, which is that there are colleges that are buyers and sellers. And the buyers are the colleges who are trying to attract students, they're trying to bring them in. They, you know, they want to buy the students, they they give more merit aid and some of those things. And then there are the colleges who are the sellers. They don't need to worry about trying to attract people because everybody applies to those, the Harvard's, the Yales, the Stanfords, and all of those big ones. And and he focuses on how to figure out what is the right school for you. So a lot of the book um is is really especially helpful for uh I think for reframing the conversations we have with our students. And instead of saying, what's your dream school? Oh, Harvard is my dream school, um it's really more to define what your dream school needs to be for you. Um so asking questions like um, what kind of environment helps you learn? Big classes, small classes, online, in person, uh, that sort of thing. What do you want to be doing with yourself four years from now? And will this school get you um to there? Uh and he and he says that shift alone actually lowers the stress levels in admissions. And anything we can do to lower stress levels when it comes to the admissions process um is really important. This is the kind of book, and I'm the perfect example, and I I don't even have a student going to college, but just reading it, that you you end up underlying lots of stuff, and you know, becomes dog-eared, and late at night you pull it out as a when you when you're worrying, and and it it's helpful, and that it might be helpful actually to read some of this together with your student to to pull out some parts and ask them um you know what they think about it, and and how creating a list of a range of colleges is going to give you uh more options and and thinking about that. Uh, the back of the book has a list of schools um to consider, um, things that uh might be somebody's dream school. So he lists a number of colleges and talks in brief summaries about what this school really, what's the essence of this school and why it might be a right fit for someone. So that that list is um particularly helpful. I think this book it gives you some new perspective and some real guidance on how to think about the college search. So it's Dream School, Finding the College That's Right for You by Jeffrey Salingo.

SPEAKER_01

Lynn, you want to say I just want to add that he's such a good writer that it makes a difference. You know, it's so wonderful to read something that's really well written. So it it it just flows.

SPEAKER_02

Lots of stories, lots of examples. I mean, he interviews hundreds of students and hundreds of parents um and has all kinds, it it it feels it's it's not academic, it feels approachable. It's really, really good. So anything by Jeffrey Salingo, I highly recommend.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Your turn. Okay, my turn. So so I love doing this. I love telling people about books that I've read that I've enjoyed. This is like my favorite episode. Um, and I do tend to pick some books that are a little off the, you know, off the main path. Um, so just I'm saying that as a preface.

SPEAKER_02

I love that. I don't know these books. All I did was read the titles, and I can't wait to hear about them.

SPEAKER_01

Um, so the first book I'm recommending is called Master of Change: The Case for Rugged Flexibility. It's by Brad Stolberg. It was written in 2023. Um, this book was recommended to me by a good friend because I was going through um deciding about retiring and you know, looking at a huge change in my

Getting Better At Life Changes

SPEAKER_01

life. And that's what this book is about. It's about how we deal with change. And so I'm thinking of parents sending your, you know, sending your first kids off to college, big change for them, but also big change for you. Um, and as we get older, more and more changes are happening that are out of our control. So, so a different way of viewing it was is really helpful. And that's exactly what happened when I read the book. You know, he he was able to pull together research and stories from all many different fields psychology, neuropsychology, biology, philosophy, religion, um, and pull all that in to get you, got me to look at things a little differently. So, one of the big shifts he talks about is um we tend to think of change as something that um he, you know, he talks about homeostasis, stasis, where things go back to normal after they change. So, so you're in a place, something happens, you go through the uncomfortable thing, and then you go back to where you were. He talks about um a different way of looking at it could be helpful, and that's um so it's it's what it's what he calls allostasis, which is something happens, a change comes, it's uncomfortable, but you don't go back to the beginning. You go back to something different. And first of all, you he gets you to realize that change is constant. You don't go back to to where you were. He helps you so that you don't feel as frightened about change, or that you deny the change, or that you, you know, try to pretend it's not happening. Um there's this whole shift, and then he gives you concrete examples of how to do this. Um he talks a little bit about well, in the title is rugged flexibility. Well, rugged means strong, and flexibility is you know being able to go with the flow a little bit. So these are all examples and suggestions of how we can be more rooted and more flexible at the same time. Um he he does talk about things like setting realistic expectations, or how to respond to things instead of react to them, or how to develop resilience in the face of some unexpected changes. So, as parents of kids any age, we know that it's a matter of constant change. This is a book to help you look at it, deal with it, think about it, and sort of think about how you handle that. It's fabulous.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I think I need this. I think we all do. Well, I know we do. And I, you know, I love that you mentioned, you know, that going to college is a big change for students, but also for parents, because I think so often we forget or we don't realize what a big change it's going to be for us as parents. Um, you know, in our our relationship with our student, which parents worry about, but I found sometimes it actually improved. Um, they weren't underfoot all the time, uh, and I wasn't nagging them all the time. Uh and so so I think that's really helpful in in having parents recognize that, you know, I'm going to be going through a lot of change too. Is this a book that that parents might recommend to students would study like this? So this would be good for it.

SPEAKER_01

Especially kids who, you know, who like to read and who like to, you know, think about um meaning of things, you know, kids who are who lean towards, you know, um talking about, you know, philosophy or or how to be human or you know, humanities, that kind of that kind of kid would probably love this because they are going through changes and it's a different way to frame it. So some kids would love that.

SPEAKER_02

That might even be something parents and and their students could sort of read together, have a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01

It certainly would be a place to talk, a place to start to talk with your kids about changing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Great. All right. I've started my summer reading list. I mean, the ones I'm talking about I've read, but but now this is great. I have some new things to read. All right, I want to talk about another one. It's a relatively new book that has just come out in the last two or three months um by Jennifer Brahaney Wallace, and it is called Mattering: The Secret to a Life of Deep Connection and Purpose. Mattering. Um, and it's not specifically about college students or students, but it so it really is for all of us. Um she has written a previous book, uh which might also be of interest, um, called Never Enough, um, which has to do with the achievement culture. Now that's a little more aimed at, you know, thinking about our our students and how this sort of achievement-driven culture um affects

Mattering And Belonging For Wellbeing

SPEAKER_02

mental health and and all of that. Um but in this book, Wallace takes the concept of mattering, um, which she calls is the perception that one is recognized and valued and significant, and that you are valued by others, but also you have value to contribute to society. So that you matter, you know, you matter to me. It makes a difference in the world that you exist, you are valued, um, and you have value to give to people. And she says, yeah, it's related, but it's different from we hear a lot about self-esteem. And she says it's not the same as self-esteem because it emphasizes mattering, emphasizes more relationships and social importance, um, not just your own self-worth. So it's this sort of new umbrella concept that that things like you know, self-worth and self-esteem and all of those things that we want our kids to feel are really part of this thing called mattering, um, which has to do with belonging and having a sense of purpose. It's and she says, she says, it's the story we tell ourselves about our place in the world, um, and that it's a fundamental human need to feel that we we belong. Um she talks about in the book about how it's important, why does why does mattering matter, um, how to strengthen it in yourself and in other people. So we would want to strengthen it in our students. Um it's what we want for our kids, for them to feel like like they have a place in this world and and they matter. Um, according to Wallace, she thinks there's a crisis of mattering, that too many, um, too many of us, not just kids, uh, you know, suffer from loneliness and burnout and loss of purpose. Um, I think especially coming off of COVID, um, that that hit a lot of people. Um and when thinking about college, although this isn't specifically about college, it having students think about where will I matter when I go to college? Where will I find my place? Um, and and what will I do and how how will I how will I make myself valuable and feel valued. Um, she talks about how to rebuild mattering when it gets shaken. Um and that can happen when some students don't do well in school if they're struggling. Um she says transitions are particularly hard, and the book has some strategies for rebuilding mattering, whether it's in your family or in your workplace or in your community or with your kids. Um and the book even talks about some how to create spaces where mattering is is sort of nurtured. Um and I like that she she as she concludes, she she talks about how mattering isn't achieved alone, but it's created between people. So those connections really, really matter. And the and that that the sh the the best way to maintain your own sense of mattering is to focus on making others feel as though they matter. So the way you treat others will affect how you feel about yourself. It's not it's not a college-related book, but um it's a really important parenting book overall, I think. Um, and and maybe especially important for people who are going through change, like your last the book you just talked about. So they they tie in together. Um so that's Mattering by Jennifer Brahaney Wallace.

SPEAKER_01

That's a good one. That sounds really interesting. I'm looking forward to reading it. I haven't read it. I know. We're both going to have all this summer reading to do because you're gonna read mine and I'm gonna read yours.

SPEAKER_02

And we invite others to join us.

SPEAKER_01

Right. The next book that I picked, my number two book, actually connects with mattering because it's a book that talks a little bit about how you feel when you don't don't feel like you matter. Um the book We didn't we didn't plan this, by the way. No, no, this is not planned, it's just happening. The book is um it's a poem. Actually, the name of the book is called My Original Enthusiasm. It is by Lori Lubeski. It was written in 2020. Lori is a colleague of mine. We both worked at the in the PAL program at Curry College. Our students identify as neurodiverse. And this is a poem about what that feels

A Poem On Feeling Different

SPEAKER_01

like from the from the child's point of view when they were younger. And it's a book that you may want to, first of all, if you know folks who feel different in any way, this book will resonate. And if you want people to understand what that feels like, or if your kids have a diagnosis of some kind of learning challenge, and you want people to figure out, you know, to understand it more, this is a book to read. Your kids might like to read this book because either they or their friends will identify with it. It is stunning. Lori is a poet. She's published a number of books. Um, I just want to read to you a response by somebody in the field. This is a response to this book by Dr. Edward Hollowell, who is like the guru of ADHD. Okay. And he his response to this was that this book is an arresting work of original genius. He says, rarely have I seen such raw suffering rendered so plainly, so truly, so well. Her words trap the pain and seal it forever. Whoever reads this book crosses the bridge from misunderstanding to the light. I think that sometimes poets, poems, um, condense the truth into a little nugget that's easier to get. And this book certainly does that. Um, it's really stunning.

SPEAKER_02

Very different kind of very different kind of kind of poetry.

SPEAKER_01

It's a poem, it's short, it's not really, really long, but it's intense.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And very well worth getting into and recommending to others.

SPEAKER_02

I think it's so hard for those of us who either haven't had a child, you know, who's neurodiverse or you know, haven't experienced it ourselves to really understand what it must be like from the inside.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. You know, and it fits with students who have trouble learning, but it also fits with students or when you have trouble with with anything where you feel left out. Because that is a hard that hurts. And um, I think we all can identify with it a little bit. And so it it could be helpful to share that that picture, you know.

SPEAKER_02

Good. All right, more reading for me for the summer. All right, I have one more. Um, and then I think you have one more too. So um this one by Ellen Broughton is Bright Kids Who Couldn't Care Less, How to Rekindle Your Child's Motivation. And we actually interviewed Dr. Broughton um in on the podcast in episode 133, and we will link to that in the show notes. We had a great conversation with her. Um, but I think we've all, many of us, I won't say all, um, many of us have have had um a child at a student at some point who has just lost their motivation. You know, it's hard to stay motivated all the time. Um, and how, you know, how do you deal with it when you've got a kid who

Rekindling Motivation In Bright Kids

SPEAKER_02

couldn't care less, as the title said. Um, Bratton is a psychologist at Harvard Medical School, and um she's internationally recognized um uh in terms of psychological assessment and learning and attention difficulties. So she really knows what what she's talking about, but it's not a technical book at all. Um, it's written for parents and thinking about that. Um it's related to mattering um because you know, she says we often see this this loss of motivation in students when they, you know, they don't feel as though what they're doing matters or that they matter. Um the for the just a quote from the foreword of the book that says for children to fulfill their potential, they need to find motivation from within. And as kids grow older and change, it can be hard for them to stay in touch with their internal drive. So she talks about how you know we try all these motivators, you know, the rewards and um, you know, the stickers and whatever else we we do, but that real motivation has to come from inside um and has to be, you know, has to come from the student. And so, you know, a lot of the book is recognizing it and then thinking about how to deal with it. Um another just one more quote. Um, we sometimes develop such a sharp image of who our kids will be or who we want them to be, that we forget to look closely at who they actually are. To help them reconnect to their passion, parents need to focus on what their children truly care about. So she talks about things um like think about what pushes your student. Think of think about what you know what quote unquote motivates them. Um is it grades? Is it admission to college? Is it social pressure? Is it social media? Is it what career they're going to have? And she she really says that that she has like a three-point thing for for lighting that fire again, getting that motivation going. She says, one is aptitude. Look at what are your child's strengths? What are they good at? Because that might provide some motivation. You you like to do the things you know you're good at. Um, and then the second one is pleasure. What does your child enjoy? So, what are they good at? What do they like doing? And the third one is practice. What are the things that that your student really persists with? They really stick to it until they can, you know, I'm gonna, I'm not gonna quit until I can get this right. I, you know, what are the things? So, what are the things that they're good at? What are the things that they enjoy? And what are the things that they stick with? And those are going to give you hints, and then she talks about how to work, you know. I mean, those are huge chunks of the book about how to do each of those. And I, you know, I thought when it comes to college, because this is written for students of all ages, um, but when it comes to college, uh, what comes immediately to my mind is choosing a major.

SPEAKER_01

I was just gonna say that choosing a major.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So when students say, uh-huh, I don't know what I want to major in, okay. Let's think about that. I mean, I can imagine w working with some of my advisees, and you say, okay, what do you what do you what do you like to do? What are you good at? What you know, what what what do people congratulate and praise you for? And then what do you like to do? What kinds of things? What kinds of activities? And and you know, what do you really stick with? Um, and what are the things you just kind of give up on? Um, so it really can, I mean, just thinking of those three things, um she calls it the app, APP, aptitude, pleasure, and practice. Um, that's really helpful. And then just, you know, to get give you an idea of the book, um some of the chapters, just a few of the chapters. One is why doesn't my bright kid seem to care about anything? So that's the why. How your expectations can get in the way. And you know, it's great to have expectations, but how do we work with those? Uh, another chapter, set goals that you can both get behind, uh, and then stay flexible to keep your child motivated, so being willing to go with the flow, and when to worry and what to do. So, you know, this is all fine and good, but when when should you really be concerned? And what to do if, you know, if if mental health seems and depression or something seems to be the issue. And I really like that each chapter ends with three things something, some things to think about, some things to talk about with your student, and some things to do. So think, talk, do at the end of every chapter. So here's here's the gist of what this chapter is about, and then you know, some action, action plans uh at the end of each chapter. Um it's not just about young kids. This really applies to students of any age. It it's important stuff to know when you have a young child, but then also, you know, as they go through middle school and high school and college, it helps there too. So bright kids who couldn't care less, how to rekindle your child's motivation by Ellen Broughton.

SPEAKER_01

You know, that sounds like a great summer read because you most usually you don't have time during the year to really, you know, have these conversations with your kids. I mean, everybody's really busy, and sometimes summer really can be the perfect time to have some of these conversations. And she seems to be helping parents figure out how to talk about this.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. Which is working together. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's hard to light the fire in someone if they don't want the fire. You know, how do you get at that internal thing? And this is really helpful with some of that.

SPEAKER_01

And as parents, we need to learn how to step back to figure out how to go about it. So this is good stuff. Yeah. Okay, my last book um is so exciting. It is called Your Brain on Art, How the Arts Transform Us. And I really could not put this book down. Um, oh, it's it was written in 2023 by Susan Maximin and Ivy Ross. The book, um, I'm fascinated by you know, reading about mental health issues. I'm fascinated about reading about the brain and how our brain is continuing to grow longer than we thought. You know, this this concept of neuroplasticity where our brain continues to learn new pathways. This book is all about how art triggers

How Art Changes The Brain

SPEAKER_01

those pathways. And it is fascinating. I mean, it relies on some amazing um studies of um studies that support this idea that being involved in the arts will help reduce anxiety, will help um students become more focused, will help students feel more joy and more calm. They go through talking about all kinds of different art, like doing art, whether you're good at it or not, triggers some pathways in the brain. Um, seeing art, um, just looking triggers some pathways. Learning an instrument or just listening to music triggers different pathways. And we're learning more and more about the brain to see how this is really um impacting us. Um, you know, they talk about music, drama, dance, poetry. Um, you know, certainly if your kids are involved in the arts in any way, or if you are involved in the arts in any way, this is a fun book to read to figure out how it will change your brain. Um, also, if you're looking, if you're interested in books that really do talk about um mental health, which I think every one of our books that we talked about today touches on a little bit. Um this is a whole new viewpoint, a whole new way to um work with mental health that's that's different than the traditional paths of therapy, psychotherapy, medication. Um, this is using art as a as a medicine. Um it is fabulous. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Can you put it down? It it occurs to me that another uh another time this might be something that would be helpful in talking to your college student about. Um, I mean, you talked about, you know, students who are involved in music and dance and drama and all of that. Um a lot of colleges have general education curriculum where students have to do a little, a little bit of a whole bunch of things um just to get a broad spectrum. So they have their major where they dig down deep, but then often the gen ed requirements are, you know, you have to take a science class and a sociology class and a and a math class and a writing class and often an arts class of some kind. I mean, at our school, you know, something that's designated arts, it can be drawing or painting or music or you know, uh playing an instrument or a drama class or you know, any one of those. And for students who are not artistic, who are not those students who were involved in the arts before and who really have no interest in the in and and there are those students, and you know, why do I have to take this? I'm you know, I'm not gonna become a painter, I'm not gonna become a musician. Um, this is a way to talk to your student who is going into this arts class, kicking and screaming in a way, of this is this has nothing to do with anything I I want to do with my life, uh the value that they may get from it. You know, that whole the what it's doing to your brain is a way of saying, well, let's let's think about why this might be a good example.

SPEAKER_01

And it's also it's important to to know that, or it's important to tell our kids that they they can do these things without being great at it. I mean, we all could benefit from doing some of this, and our culture is so is sort of so focused on being perfect and being, you know, the best, that we don't engage in things that we don't think we're gonna be fabulous at. And it is so healthy and good for us to experience different things, um, us and our kids, all of us.

SPEAKER_02

Um and it's a shame because I see students all the time who might be interested. Oh, that idea of that painting class sounds interesting, but I'm not good at it, so I'm not gonna take it because it's gonna wreck my GPA. You know, everything is my grade point average. And it might be worth for some students at some schools to explore whether there are things like pass fail options. Yes, you know, you can take this art class, you can take it past fail, therefore the grade doesn't matter as long as you pass, and usually as long as you show up enough, you will pass. Um and and and take some risks, do some things that are outside of your comfort zone. Um, but they're so afraid to do that. So, you know, passfail. It I think most schools have some kind of something like that. And it might be worth asking your student to think about or talk about if they express that. Yeah, it might be fun, but oh, I I probably wouldn't do well. Yeah. What a list of stuff. Yeah. Um for now. They're very different types of books, so hopefully something for everybody. Um, probably not gonna sit down and read them all, and we wouldn't expect you to. There will not be a test at the end of the summer.

SPEAKER_01

Um we're gonna put these in the show notes, right?

SPEAKER_02

So people put all the titles. Great. So you don't have to remember some links and um some of the the interview and any anything else might be um so if you weren't writing them down, if you're driving listening while you're driving the car or something, um check out the show. Should be there and all of the information will be there. And we hope you have some happy reading in the summer. Uh, we both have our reading list now of each other's books. Um, yeah, so

Summer Reading Wrap Up

SPEAKER_02

have a good summer. Well, don't we're not going anywhere. Keep listening, um, but enjoy your summer and uh enjoy some reading, and we'll see you next time. See you later.