Midweek Mention... Gods and Monsters

This week's Midweek Mention takes us somewhere unexpectedly moving — Bill Condon's Gods and Monsters (1998), a fictionalized account of the final days of James Whale, the British director who gave the world Frankenstein and Bride of Frankenstein. 

Sir Ian McKellen is extraordinary as the ageing, ailing Whale — a man whose health is failing, whose memories are fragmenting, and who has grown too tired to pretend he cares about social niceties. Into his life stumbles Clayton Boone (Brendan Fraser, in peak movie-star form), a gardener and former marine who becomes an unlikely companion in Whale's last chapter. 

What unfolds is a quiet, beautifully lit character study about aging, depression, homosexuality in 1950s Hollywood, and what happens when two very different men decide to be honest with each other. Lynn Redgrave as Hannah the disapproving housekeeper practically steals every scene she's in. 

There's strip journalism, a gas mask, a Hollywood party with Princess Margaret, and a swimming pool. Whale directed horror. He understood that tragedy works best when it makes you laugh first. 

Budget: $10M | Box office: ~$6.5M | BBC Films co-production | Premiered at Sundance Verdict: 

Strong recommend from Sidey and Cris. Dan missed it but is already planning to watch it.

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Until next time, we remain...

Bad Dads

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:11

That's the Midweeker. What is the Midweaker? Gods and Monsters.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Gods and Monsters. Yep. Dan, question mark of whether you've ever seen this. Yeah. And then I described it to you and And I gave you blank looks. Yeah, you can't. Is Sir Ian McKellen to you? Knight of the Realm.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Yeah, Brendan Fraser, Lynn Redgrave. Is it Lolita Davidovich?

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Davidovich, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I thought I hadn't seen it. But really it's uh it's the main the main dude is Sir Ian and then Brendan as his sort of companion.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

I'm afraid I had not seen this one up to date with homework, etc. So I'm I'm intrigued to hear all about it. Shall we tell you a little bit about it? Tell me a little bit about it.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Sir Ian plays James Whale. And then years later Brendan Fraser played the Whale won the Oscar for you know the fancy. I knew there's a connection. But you know, isn't it incredible? And he's the author of Frank N. Stein. And this is him obviously in his later years. But this is 1998. Yeah. So he's not that old here. No. He still looks old. He's got grey hair.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

I didn't want to I didn't want to say it to you this morning, but honestly, there was a couple of times in this film when I looked at him and I was thinking, he looks a bit like Coiny.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

The side the sort of like silver fox.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Just the silver fox, the kind of smile all the time, and you know, that soft smile is quite funny. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

And here's a homosexual gentleman.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Yeah. And he directed the first two Frankenstein movies. So is this like a true story? He really did. It's fictionalised version of his last days. This is a real human that existed.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Right. Okay. So he really did direct Frankenstein.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

Yes. Yeah, the the James Whale, not Chilean McCoy.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

And it set in like the nineteen Well yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

So 1950s, but it then as he's thinking and because this is like end of days, his health is like seriously to be a very younger yeah. He's having flashbacks to like scenes where he's directing the movie or during the war. Interesting. Or you know. Different points in his life.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

Or when he's a child and his father kind of who who's playing him in those younger days then? No one that you'd recognise. Yeah, I wouldn't I didn't know either.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

People though.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

People.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Right. Okay. They haven't kind of AI wasn't around.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

The young him is very handsome, I would say. He's he's like he r remembers himself doing sort of artistic pursuits and his family are like, what the fuck are you doing? Like you're gonna go to work and go to the world. Go work in a factory and yeah. Right. They're working class. And yeah. And you know, back then there was no kind of like, oh maybe he's like Yeah, there's no aspirations.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

Oh, I want him to do better than me. No, I want to do it. Also he's gay as well.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

So they're not gonna go, oh, you know, we've got to look after our gay. You know, no, it's just like, no, this is the path for you. You're gonna do like man stuff, you're gonna be a man, you're gonna do man stuff in a factory. So he's the sort of first Sorry, I'm just uh No, no, it's commixing, you know. Podcasting blind. Yeah. There's a sort of memorable scene right sort of near the start as he's being interviewed by this guy who is super camp. Oh yes. This journalist guy comes round, and so there's a lady in it who plays his sort of housemaid and she kind of steals the movie.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

She's always disapproving of him, and she But you can see, like, you know, when you have like the you always see the films and that I've never had servants, but and you probably have because you you know back in the day when I had a little more money around the house, but of course Tom's. You know when there's always the the servant that has been with the with the with the you know, whatever the family. With the family for too long, and they and he says it in the film, he's like that she's been in my service so long, she actually thinks she's married to me. Yeah, she's forgotten that the what the role should be.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

And she's clearly like not to say that she's like flat out homophobic, but she is negative about homosexuality. Right. And she calls it, she says to like Brendan Frazer about buggering men and stuff. He likes to bugger, he's a bugger. So this first guy who sits down to interview him, doesn't he? And he could tell wells like straight away just really bored with like another guy coming to torture him, and he says, Listen, let's make this a bit more fun for me. I don't care about you, but for me, this needs to be more interesting. So I will answer any question you ask me truthfully, but you have to remove an item of clothing. Like strip journalism. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Yeah, right. He's like, it's like a game of poker, but he's gotta try and get the naked truth. Yeah, pretty much. And the guy does get down to his pants, doesn't he? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Like proper, just in his tidy white. And he asks him like just it's quite a generic question, and I guess he does get a bit annoyed because the guy is always interested in just about the Frankenstein and about the two movies. Yeah, as if he's never done anything else in his life. And he he he doesn't ask him about how he was in like how he started, what is the invisible man? He does say that well, my favourite is the invisible man, but he wouldn't want to ask about that because it's not a Frankenstein film or whatever. And he does fake does he fake that heart attack or is he actually he doesn't think it was real?

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Yeah. Yeah, so he it was a stroke, I think. Yeah, it was a little bit. And it really freaks this guy out, and like it's pretty full on, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 5:17

Yeah. Yeah. Well he he passes out, the woman comes running, and then I think the next scene is he's already in hospital. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And obviously we don't we don't see that guy until later on in the film. But he's there like in his pants, just are you okay? And the this the maid is kind of looking after Whale and the guy's just there, and then she kind of looks at him like What's I used to be?

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Yeah, yeah. Your pants. He does have a very nice gaff. Yes. Um because of that, he has a nice garden, and because he has a nice garden, he needs a gardener to tend to it, and that is where Boone, Brendan Fraser's character, turns up. He whale clocks him a couple times, like licking his lips.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

But it's also the at the beginning of the film, on the first day of Boone, it's a really I thought it was a really good scene where you see how Boone lives. And honestly, trailer part, like trailer trash. I don't even know if he has electricity.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

It just looks like they they're in a bar because they they they start this relationship purely like a friendship base. And you can tell he he would have probably said a lot of derogatory things about gay people and whatever until he meets Whale and starts to come out, and then there's a scene where they're in in this bar diner thing with his pals, or rednecks, you know, like fairly just ignorant, yeah, you know. And the TV that they watch the Bride of Frank sign on is honestly the oldest TD I've ever seen in my life. It's like it's more machine than screen. Like there's there's just nothing.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

There's all the box is more oh yeah, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

The screen is I don't know, it's like looks like it doesn't, you know, it's like tiny, and they're watching that, and it and his his friends are saying stuff about like homos and stuff like that, and he's like, Look, you know, you can start to see a change in him after he's met. Well it's like you really don't have to say words like that, you know. And so he's come around, but their initial interaction is the he when he invites him in, doesn't he? And then his first sort of thing to get to know him is I want to paint you. Yeah, and then it he's like, What do you mean? It's like just you know, just paint you, just help me to help us to relax to get to know each other, a bit of a thing. And then he looks at a painting he's got next to him, it's just him spolling.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

He's like, Well, you want to paint me like that? Not like that.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

It's like no. I just I guess I think they compromise on he says, I'll just paint your head, yeah. I'll just do it like a face portrait type thing. But when they do sit down to do it, it says, Well, you really need to take your top off.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

It's like, what? And and Brendan is. I mean, this film is like 1998. He was a so he's big star this one.

SPEAKER_02 7:53

He's around the like probably in between the mummy and the mummy too. When I see him, he's really like a handsome man. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

I didn't realise obviously I was too young at the time, but looking back now, he's proper movie star looks like he's Baff and he's handsome. Yeah, he he was, you know, and it's great lighting as a leading man looks.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

There's always nice natural light in the film, it's always daytime when every action happens in the daytime.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

So he's at pains to point out to Wale that he's a straight man and there's not there's nothing like that is gonna happen between them. Plus, it's like a there is like a significant age difference.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

And to be it this is one of them that he keeps repeating. I wouldn't be you wouldn't be interested, I wouldn't be interested. Don't be daft, man. I wouldn't be, I wouldn't do that. Okay, well I'm homosexual, but you know, I I'm I'm nowhere near, you know. He just kind of always says that to be like, I'm not interested. Um this is just strictly professional, I just want to draw you, yeah, and and create a friendship or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

Yeah, well, is in spite of this, he is still really struggling, he's depressed, his his health is waning, he's thinking about you know, he can't work anymore, he he's like worried about his looks, yeah. His end just basically everything's flashbacks, yeah. Yeah, and he's he's having flashbacks to like the good times and that they're not gonna come around anymore, and he does contemplate ending it all. I see he's he's it's really getting depressed, and yeah, yeah, big time.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

Yeah, and he also there's a couple of times where they they have the interaction, he's like, Oh, so do you miss it? Oh no, I don't miss it, and then he's like, No, I don't miss it, and uh being assertive, and then he kind of goes, making movies is the best thing in life. So you kind of go it initially he goes, No, no, I I don't miss it, and then it's like you actually do, mate, but you don't want to say it. And then he does get invited to a party.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

Is it Princess Margaret? Yes, yeah, yeah. And Boris Carloff is there, like his old stars, but that really kind of just makes him feel worse. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

Because that's when he says that all the monsters are here. Yeah. And he gets the invite from Princess Margaret, and there's all these movie stars, all the big people in Hollywood, and he goes, his companion is his gardener. And he's the only guy there with a t-shirt. Everyone's in a shirt, tie, hat, you know, like proper nice Hollywood gathering. Yeah, it's a black tie, eventually. And he's like, Oh yeah, I'm this is my gardener, and he's like, Oh, he doesn't really meet princess princesses, he only use meets queens, he's more used to meeting teams. Wonder what he means. Yeah, and it's like you can see the George guy and the princess kind of just Yeah, they it this they used a bit more for formality, but he's like, nah, fuck that.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

He's too old and too depressed to give a shit about anything, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

And then he meets his old cast, and we get to see the camp guy again. The one that was in his pants already. Right, okay. Because he's like, I put you on the list. I'm now assistant to George, whatever. And he just looks at him, he's incredulous, he's like, What the f what's going on here? And that's when he they go home and it starts raining.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

There's a brainstorm, yeah, they get caught in the rain, and then so Boone he is stuck without any wet threw in his t-shirt. We've all been there, haven't we? Whale says to him, like I think he put he says, I'll sort you out, but I think he just has a towel on.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

Well yeah, he's like, I'll give you some clothes. And he while Boone is having a shower, Whale just gets dressed up, three-piece suit, like you would think he's going out, but he's just gonna sit on the sofa. And when Boone comes down, he's like, How about those clothes? You said you're gonna and he just kind of looks at it and he's like, Oh yeah, you're in your towel. It's just pretty much that's what he wanted to see, basically. And he kind of Well he goes to sketch him, doesn't it? Yeah, but they he kind of coerces him, but he kind of just chats to him. They they both share truths because in until then he he thought that Boone was a Marine. Like he actually fought in Korea.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

He has the tattoos, isn't he?

SPEAKER_02 11:50

Yeah, but uh it turns out that Boone only went and did the training camp, never went, never went anywhere. Never saw any activists. Yeah, no, never saw anything. And he just said, Look, you assumed everything. I just told you I was a marine, and you just assumed everything else. And then because they tell all these truths about everything, and he whale tells him about his love in the war, the guy that was hanged or something like that, and he kind of makes him, Okay, well stay here and I'll draw you.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

And he puts the that thing or the Well, first of all, he first of all he does it in the towel, and then he he can't do it, and he shows Boone. I've actually lost it now, I can't even fucking draw. So to like motivate him, Boone drops his towel. Yeah. Shows him his dick, like his bollocco.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

Do we all see that?

SPEAKER_02 12:37

No, it's a reflection in the in the window, but you can't you can't really know.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Let down. And yeah, then he says, Oh, actually, let's make it more you know arty for arty. So they he wears a World War I gas mask.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

Yeah, the the one with uh with the holes.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Yeah, yeah, why?

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Like dead man's shoes stuff.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Spooky. What he's got that on only that one.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

He crosses a fucking line and tries to make a sexual advance. He tries to kiss.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Whale's still got a little getting a bit horny. How old is he here?

SPEAKER_02 13:11

He looks yeah, he looks like in his 70s, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

But so he does that and Spoon's like really fucking enraged about it, fights him off and tells him, like, you know, you're out of order. And Wales says, I actually only did that in the hope that you would kill me. Yeah. Oh, bloody hell.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

He's like, What do you want? What do you want for me? Leave me alone.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

He's like, I just want you to kill me, and it's just like I was just looking, he actually died 67 years old, so he definitely wouldn't have been in his 70s.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

Right, well, anyway, that yeah, and um they kind of make up in a way.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

Yeah, he stays there. He sleeps downstairs well as upstairs in the morning, though. What's her name? The the the housekeeper. Hannah.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

Hannah. Is it Hannah? Yeah. Yeah, Hannah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Hannah button. She c like raises the line because she can't find him, so they have a look around and unfortunately he has drowned himself. Yeah, he they find him in the pool.

SPEAKER_02 14:05

And there is a scene uh it halfway through the film where he says uh he Whale always says that if you want to go for a swim, feel free. I don't really swim, so I don't really use it. Uh right. The pool is just you know, decoration here, I don't really use it. And full circle they find him in. Because the one of his mates from the party was gonna come for breakfast, Hannah tells uh Boone, you need to get out of here, we don't want any questions. You were you know, why did you sleep over? You're only the gardener, there's gonna be you know questions asked, and we don't want another scandal. Yeah, you need to leave. And then he's like, Well, how are you gonna explain dragging him out of the pool? And she's like, I'll just put him back, it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

Wow. Then they just push him back.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

He's like, Oh, sorry, Mr. Jimmy, I'm sure you don't mind, and just push him back in the water, and you can just kind of see him there. And I think they do a a bit of a switcheroo where he comes back blonde and he kind of starts laughing in the pool or smiling. Yeah at the end where it's kind of like he's gone back in time where he was young and happy.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Yeah, they wanted to avoid the scandal of having Boone there. Yeah. Um so he does it right, but they also know it is a clear suicide. And then flash forward to ten years down the lake. Oh, really? Right. Boone, Clayton Boone watching Bride of Frankenstein with his now son. Right. And telling him all these stories. Oh yeah, he's got a full plasma setup now. Uh no, it's not, it's it's still black and white, but he's telling him spinning these yarns about James Well that he knew him, and his son's like, yeah, bullshit, no fucking way. And he brings out a sketch. I think it's the Bride of Frankenstein. And it's the Frankenstein head. And it says to Clayton, my friend. And he's like, There you go, fuck face, what do you think of that? Doesn't quite it might worded it something like that anyway. And then he's later on, he's walking down the street and he starts mimicking like walking around. Yeah, the Frankenstein in the rain. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:54

His message is like, Oh, you need to take the rubbish before the rain starts or the storm starts. Yeah. And as he goes, because this is a recreation of when they left the party, Whale had a convertible car, and when they put the rooftop down, he just it's only water, we'll be fine, it's only whatever. So again, another full circle moment.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Finny.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

And that's the end, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Interesting. Oh well, I'm um I think you'd enjoy it. I'm disappointed. I missed this one actually. It's a slow burn.

SPEAKER_02 16:22

Okay, but it's not it's not uh it's not an action. But it's now hour forty. So it's not like a long slow burn. The costumes are really good. It looks great. It's a it's a character piece.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Atmospheric, you said it was very light.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

Yeah, it's like nice lighting, always flowers and gardens. And obviously, you get Brendan Fraser quite a few times without his top one.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

I I do well, I do enjoy you know watching these films about people's lives, particularly those that have had interesting lives and and true stories, and when they build on those final days, I know that obviously they don't there's an artistic life. Yeah, it's not exactly how it happened, you but it's there, you know, there's a two or three actors in there that I I really like. So yeah, it sounds like it's it was not a hit at the box office, I have to tell you. It doesn't sound like it would be, though.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

You know, it's cost ten million, and you're thinking, okay, like it looks great and stuff, but did it make anything? Did they need to spend ten million or something?

SPEAKER_02 17:19

Because there's no there's no car there's only a one car scene, yeah. They're not there's only on one location, and then to be fair, that's second garden where they did the buy.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

BBC were involved in this in the start. Yeah, BBC films said no, I only made about six and a half million back, unfortunately, so it it wasn't a big hit in that sense. But I think it was well received by certainly by critics and also by the LBGTQ plus audience because it does show like a positive relationship between a gay man and a heterosexual man, and probably the heterosexual man who's someone who would have been certainly ignorant and probably would have said bigoted remarks, and you can see his like transformation, or see that he just learns a little bit. He learns to be more accepted and he stands up for him in the bar scene and things like that. So it's it's good like that. And quite often gay people end up being like the villains or fucking like serial killers or monsters in these films, so it was good to have a kind of sympathetic character portrayed in that way.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Yeah, nice. It's definitely something that I think I could sit down and and watch. As I say, I enjoy those kind of biography films or autobiography films, and having and I didn't know a lot about this guy, but this James Well, obviously I'd heard of The Bride of Frankenstein and and Frankenstein, but I wonder how he'd used his or how the film portrays that he uses war experiences and things in his directing and whether that's He does a few he alludes a few times, he's like, Oh, d did you laugh at the film?

SPEAKER_02 18:47

And he's like, Well, no. He lies because his mates laughed. And he's like, Well, no. He's like, Well, you should because he's like it's it's a it's a it's it's a tragedy and it's a dark dark film. I had to make it laugh when it's something about death and things like that. So you have a little bit of that, but it's also more about the guy's life and pretty much about him. I think it's more about him being gay in the fifties. Yeah and early than that. Less acceptance. When it was I mean, in doing the nineties, late nineties, it wasn't necessarily pff free for all.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

But you imagine fifty years before that, so certainly watching it now in in the times of the culture wars, you know, I don't think it would be any more, you know, you'd get a lot more people just feeling it like they could just say homo, like you know, they do in the film. So it's it's still quite topical, still very topical, in fact. But I think even though you know like we spoiled the story for you in that sense, I still think you get a kick out of watching it.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Well, I I see that it was released at at Sundance, and it's interesting you mentioned we mentioned this like loads of weeks in loads of different films. The budget being so much and the box office bringing in so much. So this on the face of it lost three and a half million through the budget that you know but I always wonder like obviously Prime, Netflix, like cinema. I think they make their money back eventually. It just takes a lot of long time. It just takes a a lot longer. But yeah, you you think that that's not a if it's the only reason you make films is to make money.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

Well I was just about to say it's good that people still not still, but people take a chance at movies like this, even though, you know, it's not this is not going to be a billion dollar movie. Do you know what I mean? No, right, no, that's but people are still willing to take a risk on it and make it. So that's good. I don't know. I think it maybe I don't know, maybe it doesn't happen less and less, but I feel like it happens less and less. Maybe I just don't see it.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

No, they s they seem to, you know, play safer. I mean, but I I guess most films don't actually make, you know, lots of money or anything. But it's nice that actors of this note are still interested in projects like this, because I guess it's those and the directors, the artistic types that are the ones that are speaking to the money men saying, look, we need to make this film. We need they may have to say, right, well, you've got to make Avengers 3 after this, but it it's a it's a bucket. They get this film made. So interested. Strong recommend. Yeah, strong. Strong.