Secretaries & Secretary

This week the dads work late for Steven Shainberg's Secretary (2002) — one of the more unusual love stories in American independent cinema, and almost certainly the most interesting thing James Spader has ever worn a tie for.

But first: a very thorough Top Five Secretaries list. Dolly Parton, Mad Men, Ghostbusters, Batman Returns, The Simpsons, Beetlejuice, Moneypenny through all her iterations, and the West Wing. It's a good one.

Top Five highlights:

• Doralee Rhodes (Dolly Parton) from 9 to 5
• Joan Holloway and Peggy Olson from Mad Men — a deliberate twofer
• Selina Kyle — Michelle Pfeiffer, one take with the whip, iconic
• Moneypenny through every era — Lois Maxwell to Naomi Harris
• Smithers from The Simpsons — unsalaried, devoted, above and beyond
• Miss Argentina, the green receptionist in the afterlife from Beetlejuice
• Dawn/Pam from the UK and US Office — both great, discussed together
• Mrs Landingham from The West Wing
• Miss Teschmacher from Superman

On the main feature:

• Dan tried to watch it with his family. The first scene resolved that very quickly.
• A surprisingly thoughtful and sensitive portrayal of BDSM — and why it works where 50 Shades doesn't
• Maggie Gyllenhaal and James Spader both doing career-best work
• Angelo Badalamenti's score — unusual, rhythmically strange, perfect
• Whether trading one form of self-harm for another is complex, or just complicated, or both
• The three-day chair scene — and why it's the emotional heart of the film

Also in this episode: a recent Wu-Tang Clan gig (GZA didn't show, QR codes were aggressively promoted), Barcelona, and Sidey's assessment of the Red Hot Chili Peppers.

Verdict: Strong recommend. Surprisingly tender. Genuinely unlike anything else.

Note: Adult content. Not suitable for family viewing. The dads learned this the hard way.

Cast & crew discussed: Maggie Gyllenhaal, James Spader, Angelo Badalamenti, Steven Shainberg

We love to hear from our listeners! By which I mean we tolerate it. If it hasn't been completely destroyed yet you can usually find us on twitter @dads_film, on Facebook Bad Dads Film Review, on email at baddadsjsy@gmail.com or on our website baddadsfilm.com.
 
Until next time, we remain...
 
Bad Dads

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:12

Welcome to Bad Dad's Film Review, the podcast that is to film criticism as a gimp mask is to a job interview. This week we're holding all calls and working late with the top five secretaries, and for our younger listeners, a secretary was a human being whose job was to translate the incompetence of their superiors into something vaguely resembling a work day. But that has since been replaced by Outlook and the optimistic fiction that grown adults can manage their own calendars. The word secretary survives now mainly in politics and medicine, two fields that both involve a lot of being bent over a desk while someone tells you it's for your own good. Our main feature is secretary. Unsurprisingly, Steven Schoenberg's gloriously strange 2002 film in which a fragile young woman discovers that punishing and hurting herself is considerably more fun when line managers are involved. It's basically dirty dancing if baby had specifically asked to stay in the corner and Johnny had the paperwork to make it official. The standard warning applies, we spoil things because we're inconsiderate bastards, and our language is filthy enough to require a formal written apology, so if that's not for you, the door's right there. But for everyone else, let's meet four men who've spent their entire lives in desperate need of a firmer hand and somehow never received one, starting with Dan. He's so old he remembers when bound for the office was a different kind of sentence entirely, and his last fuck was filed sometime in the seventies, lost in an office move, and neither the fuck nor the cabinet have been seen since. Fucking true. Next up, handsome Chris, a man who returns every week for more, despite never appearing to enjoy any of it, which is either the most method preparation for this week's film review we've ever seen, or a deeply worrying pattern we should probably have flagged earlier. And taking down his particulars in third place, the man who told me earlier this week his dictation is enormous, and I have no reason to doubt him, it's Sidey. Thank you. And then there's me, Reeds. Hello. Hello.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

We're back. Yeah, we had a hiatus. We had a week off. We had a brief hiatus, didn't we? Reeds and I went to Capital City. Off the big off Ireland.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

Yeah. Went to Londinium and saw the Wu-Tan clan.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

You saw my dictation as well. We shared a room.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

How was that? The Wu Tan thing.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

It was good, yeah. Yeah, we sang Shame on the Person who tried to run Blame on the Person.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Yeah, it was really good. Only slight disappointment was that one of the Wu-Tang clan wasn't there.

SPEAKER_03 2:32

The Jiz of the genius, he's always on point, but not that night.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

He didn't re-up or reload, so we missed out on him. But the show was great.

SPEAKER_03 2:38

Why why was he not there?

SPEAKER_02 2:39

They didn't say no. In fact, they didn't acknowledge it in any way.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

Tell you what they did do is they showed us QR codes over and over and over again. I've never been a gig or I've been asked to look at a QR code so many times. That was a very puzzling attitude. Scanning, was it? They've all got a lot of projects on the go. There's trailers for films and all sorts of stuff going on, but they wanted you to fucking get your phone out and download shit. And you've underestimated what British people are like because the more they told me to do it, the fucking less I wanted to.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

They're nominated for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Yeah. And I think We've got to be on that bitch. I think the least like rock and roly thing is like wanting to be in it. And they were like, get up and vote, like get your phone out and vote. I mean like nah. I don't want to be told what to do at a gig. Yeah. Anti-establishment, etcetera, etc. But the tunes were fucking great. Yeah. You took notes? Yeah, all of them. It was opening for them. So it was when they said then it didn't describe it very well because Havoc is the DJ from Mub D. So we we were expecting two people, it was just one guy DJ. Wide, okay. It did play some bangers, it was good.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

Bloody expensive drinks, though. 34 quid for me and Reese get for around.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Fuck off.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

Wow. What was you drinking? Pints. Gin and tonic and rum and coke.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Champagne.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

The finest wine. Yeah, it was a bit punchy. I mean it doubles, but it's just 34 quid.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

17 quid a drink. Ouch town. Ouchtown. Population. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

That is punchy.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Yeah. Yeah. Woo.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

Tang. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Yeah, woo tang.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Motherfucker.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

What have you guys been up to though? Uh you've been away. I have been away as well. Off island and off on the continent, shall I say? Because obviously we are not really attached to the continent in any way here. In continent. Yeah, on the continent. I went to Barcelona. Had a fantastic time. I'll tell you what though, we the three of us, me and my two mates, went for dinner and between the three of us was 80 euro the bill, so drinks were cheap in Barcelona. Compared to slightly different to what compared to the O2 arena in London, but yeah. And the camp, no, I didn't pay for any drinks. The Geordies just bought drinks for me. Really? Yeah, because I I d I my phone didn't work, so I didn't have any card or any cash with me.

SPEAKER_03 4:57

So I just But you had a Newcastle shirt on and that was a good one.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

And that was enough, yeah. That was your currency.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

They weren't gonna see you without a drink. Yeah, I well, look at you all jet setting off, you lucky people. I was I was here holding the fort, you know, just twiddling my thumbs, waiting for you all to come back. Obviously, I tied you in the man cave as you can see. Yes, spotless.

SPEAKER_03 5:17

Um But also, you haven't seen anything this week, and you told me uh earlier off air that there was some reason that you were gonna reveal. Well, there was some way.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

They came a little bit later, which meant there was less of a a window. But no, I was I had every every kind of intention to to watch Secretary with the family on Yeah and and then that didn't work on and it got kind of pushed to to Sunday night and it became clear very quickly that wasn't a film that we should all watch together. It's not a family film, no, it's not a family film. No, we'll get into that. How far into it did you get? Oh no, well it it well the first scene is like Yeah, the the f the first scene is is is uh said no. Yeah. You know, so yeah, that was that put hold on that idea. I did watch earlier in the week a documentary on the red hot chili peppers, which was quite good. Our friend Hillia, who was the David, the guy who who died from red hot chili peppers earlier on. No. No, the guy be from before, yeah, yeah. The the lead guitarist who who helped start him off. Um John Frischanti. No. No, so he joined afterwards and this guy was their first kind of album and and from high school and was kind of the guy who knitted it all together and put Flea and and Nikidas in in touch. It was really interesting, actually. That was on on Netflix, so I'd watch that, which was I think they are one of the fucking worst bands of all time.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

Well, I quite like them. Yeah. Fucking drastic. And I don't I like Flea. I he seems like a really cool guy. He really is, you know. And I cannot understand why he's put up with that fucking shit dirge his whole fucking life. It just don't I it doesn't compute to me.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Well, if you watch the documentary and he's it's all subjective.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

Yeah, he's he and he does, he comes across as the Anthony Kidd is a nonce as well, isn't he? He's like knocking off a 16-year-old or something now. He's into his fifty.

SPEAKER_03 7:19

Yeah, I think he's been permanently like that, hasn't he? With like a bit like Leo, but worse.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Yeah. Yeah. Wow, right. Well, it didn't go into any of that, but obviously they're drug problems and things like that. But Flea was the one with the least drug problems out the back. He seems like a pretty cool guy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

He likes sparks, I'll say no more.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

There we go. Yeah, so that was that was my viewing. So I didn't get to watch Secretary, although I did do a top five Secretaries.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

Okay, we'll get on to that. I have watched the I think everyone's watched it, the Louis Through The Manasphere. I haven't.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

I've not watched it either. Oh, it's good. It's Is that a series or is there just the ones just a word?

SPEAKER_02 7:59

Yeah, they're ones. It's it's he's moved from the BBC to Netflix. He doesn't kind of I think he could call them out more in the show, but he does shine a light. I don't think he really needs to. Often he just lets them talk and they just obviously come across as fucking idiots because that's what they are. But actually I think the the the show, like Tiki Toki even saying that out loud is fucking tragic. I think he's done his popularity has been boosted through it. For sure. For sure. So even shining a light on them hasn't really done anything. But I think that's part of You have to at least try and make people aware of it.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Who are these people? What he's doing. They're just trying to say somewhere in the middle of the year.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

Low Ren Andrew Tate, basically, you know, like just They're all disciples of his, basically. They're all the same. Really young guys who's never had a father figure in their lives, who just go on social media and work the algorithm, saying the most twisted things, and you know, it's and it's laughable. You can laugh at them because they're stupid and they say stupid things. They say things like a ten-year-old would be ashamed at saying.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

But the problem is they're dangerous, they're influential, and they're just like, And they do show you they do show you two guys in it who are like true believers. And one guy, it's really tragic, like his brother had killed himself, and he's like, that's what we're supposed to be like. We're supposed to men aren't supposed to be happy, we're supposed to suffer. This guy's like been homeless, like lived in a car, and he just gives all his money to these fucking idiots in the home. They're very vulnerable. Somehow, like this is the path to go on, and they're just you know, these guys are all like super damaged, you know, fucked up. And it just shows you and it just shows you the stuff that they say, and they're just so overtly like fucking stupid.

SPEAKER_03 9:33

There's a brilliant one where his mum's there, don't you? And and and he, you know, he's his whole tone really changes and he becomes across like a petulant little child.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

There's a thing about a juice bar that things He says, Mummy, I don't want I always say it, Mummy, I don't want a juice bar. Yeah. This is the guy who's been like doing queer bashings and being like he's he's a mixed-race kid, and he's like racist. He says, if I have a son and he's gay, I'll disown him, like he and peddles all the shit. And then all the people that he gets to follow him just exploits them and takes their money up for this. It's a pyramid scheme. And then but he's still all of this, he still has to answer his mum and says, Mummy, I don't want to just so funny.

SPEAKER_03 10:13

But it is, I mean, you do spend a lot of time just laughing at them because they are so laughable. But the problem is the kids Love it. Yeah, it's and we don't know who they are. We're well, me personally, I'm not in touch with that kind of culture. So but uh children especially are gonna know who some of these YouTube fuckers are. Or you could go down the look maxing route. Clavicular. Yeah, uh beating yourself with a hammer to Yeah, smashing your face in. Have you seen this? Do you know about looks maxing and clavicular? No. So he's a guy who got famous for whacking himself in the face with a tiny hammer to give himself little fractures. Micro fractures because when it heals, it improves your body structure. I know the look on your face is amazing.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

They have like they have ratios of all your body measurements, and they get really upset if they haven't got like the perfect ratio of like shoulder to shoulder to waist to fucking bonkers. Honestly. But they'll fucking super into it, and then they'll sell you peptides. So this is apparently the latest craze is for like black market peptides that will help you to look like.

SPEAKER_03 11:11

Oh, and all these other fuckers are running like you know, coin type scams, but you know, with like trading and all that sort of shit, and everybody's losing money, and you can sign up to their things for forty dollars a month. I mean, it's all a scam. It's just a Well it doesn't have to be true, you've just got to set enough times.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:26

That's it. So I watched that.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

How long is this thing? Hour. Oh, okay. That's not a good one.

SPEAKER_03 11:33

Maybe a little bit more, but an hour and a half. But yeah. There's a there's a brilliant moment where on screen one of the guys, he's obviously got a bit of a persona. They're all into one-way monogamy, they call it, so they can have loads of chicks, but their white you know, partner can't. And she basically two minutes of a conversation with Louis is enough. He says I'm to have multiple wives, and Louis asks her, Yeah, Are you okay with that? The look on her face, and then they split up like after the programme came out. It's like literally two minutes with Louis was enough for her to ask enough questions to reflect on what the hell she was doing.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

You know, it's like a typical Louis Threw thing where he does his sort of like straight man thing and just asks the questions for them to expose her. So yeah, it's quite uh it's alarming, but also quite interesting.

SPEAKER_03 12:17

Also on Netflix at the moment is War Machine, Alan Richon. I really like that. That's basically just Predator, but with Metal Gear Solid stuff in it, but really good. I rated that as a big dumb action movie and I Swear, which Dan and I did a review of, which will come out and is absolutely superb. It's brilliant. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

I told you when I when I after I've seen it that that is the best film I've seen in the last couple of years. Yes, it was good. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

Well we said we hadn't seen Sinners, so we can't comment on the best film. We had the Oscars, didn't we, while we've been off air, we've had the Oscars. I haven't seen anything.

SPEAKER_03 12:51

We said it had to be some performance for it to be better than what we saw in that because he's in I Square. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

We thought he was Sinners is the Michael B. Jordan Creed. Michael B. Jordan, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

They thought that the lock-in was either Timothy Chalamet or DiCaprio, and the surprise of the night I think was Michael B. Jordan winning. I don't think that I swear was ever in the running.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

That guy was incredible. Especially because he's not he doesn't have the rent.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

He's just an actor that's John Acton. Oh, it's brilliant. Brilliant film. Yeah. I've watched a film called Mosul. It's a it's a Iraqi. Afghanistan, is it? Or Iraq. Iraqi film with all the Iraqi actors. It's a war film about Mosul and how they go after the few fractions of ISIS in Mosul. It it it was really good actually, and it's based on a true story. Obviously, there's creative license and that, but it was it's really good, really nicely made. Obviously it's it's still a Hollywood production, but all the actors are Iraqi and they speak Arabic and Farsi and all that, and it's it's kinda like a war like any war film that is nicely done where you just kind of throughout the film you just witness the futility of war and how they fight over a couple of blocks or a couple of streets and then everybody dies and they haven't gone forward or backwards one meter, they just the line is still there. Yeah. But there's a hundred people dead, and it's four children dead, and the only people that are making money they're selling rocket launches for uh ten pack of cigarettes and things like that, and it's just like Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:31

There's a Vietnam movie called Hamburger Hill which has a similar thing, it's just about a fight for this hill. The whole movie is about that, and they they take it, they lose it, they take it, they lose it at a terrible cost. It's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

So so yeah, that I I watched that because I was on the plane and and I've watched a really shit three-part series called Cocaine Air about these three French I should have known because it's about the French, but uh stupidly I watched it anyway. And it was the worst.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Bonjour to all our French friends.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

It was honestly, oh my god. There's three these two French pilots, a retired French pilot and some idiot French guy, businessman apparently, they they got caught in in the Dominican Republic in 2013 with 70 kilos of coca 70 tons of cocaine or tons. So s I don't know, uh seven tons of cocaine, something like that. Jesus. And honestly, it and they go to prison in the in Costa Rica and then some other French fuck just sets them free and get gets them off a boat, and he's oh my god, there's oh man.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

There was a Jersey guy that got done. Remember a few years ago, there was a guy who got done with load of cocaine on a boat and he was just tricked into I think I used to play football with him.

SPEAKER_02 15:49

Right. Uh at St.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

Paul's, yeah. Yeah, he was just tricked. I remember his name. Yeah, transporting him.

SPEAKER_03 15:54

The one that they got caught down at Monkey Beach.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

I don't remember which beach. But where was this? Apparently this was a uh he I thought it was Caribbean, that's why but he he got caught because people who can like crew boats and things often get told to to take boats from one place to another because somebody's buying one and they say, Oh well you you could you can do it. And this wasn't like left on the bed, the coke or whatever, it was all hidden in the hull or whatever, and just we need you to take it from from A to B and he did it and he was hiding.

SPEAKER_02 16:31

Because I think the guy know uh Iceberg he knew what he was doing, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Oh well uh this guy I think he he actually did get off because they was hoodwinked.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

Yeah. Okay. Shall we talk about some secretaries?

SPEAKER_01 16:44

Yeah. Let's do that. Desk whisperers, the inbox influences, the calendar charmers.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

Have you ever I don't mean it it's in a perverted way, have you ever had the benefit of a secretary at work to assist you in your working day?

SPEAKER_01 17:04

I'm glad you put it that way, that long No.

SPEAKER_03 17:11

Executive Assistant or that's an assistant?

SPEAKER_02 17:14

Our CEO still has an executive assistant and wants he picked up another one.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

But no, you're not being two like what the fuck. Yeah, they're called PAs now, aren't they? Wouldn't they be? Yeah. That would fit the description.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

My well I my old office, the boss had a like a proper secretary who like knew shorthands, you know, the proper shorthands and all that sort of stuff, like a proper old school secretary.

SPEAKER_03 17:36

Um, not like Liam Neeson.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

A unique set of skills she would have to track him, you know, didn't kill him, but you know, if you need, you know, she would know where he was and you'd late for a meeting, she would go and track him and find him, you know. All that, yeah. So a little bit like Liam Neeson. But we're gonna make a list. Yes. Oh Liz Paper. The top our top five seconds. Yeah, yeah. Who wants to start? I don't know, who does want to start?

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Who does want to start? I'll take minutes. I'll take minutes. You were quite pleased at having a list because you didn't watch anything. Wrote it down as well. Okay, well I'll go for Doralie Rhodes. Yes. Nine to five, what a way to make a living. Dolly? Yeah. And she It was her debut. Yeah, it was it was uh she sung as well in this. Obviously, she was a big star.

SPEAKER_03 18:30

Who was the other two Lily Tomlin was it?

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Was the it was three secretaries who were working the nine to five yeah, working for kind of uh a sexist boss and they were yeah I think it's the sort of inverse of that.

SPEAKER_03 18:45

Is that everybody thinks she's shagging the boss, Dolly, and she's not. And yeah, I can't.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Do you know what it's called? Eight till four? Secretary. Wow. There you go. There you go. Wow. Well, I didn't have that fact.

SPEAKER_03 19:08

I do be remember that the song is in it about 25 minutes into the movie.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

I think it's start I think it's didn't it start off with it? Does it start off with the movie? I think it starts off with it. It's almost I think it's in it about 20 times. Oh maybe it gets. I'm pretty sure it it starts. It would play you out as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:27

It was nominated for an Oscar as well, the song.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Yeah, I mean Dolly Parton is amazing. She's she's the goat. Yeah, she's absolutely what a songwriter. She's fantastic. And all her philanthropic work. And she's got like the Dolly theme park as well. Dollywood. Yeah. Yeah. Dollywood.

SPEAKER_03 19:46

And this was about sort of fighting back against harassment. I don't remember the film very well, but I do remember that.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

I rem I yeah, I remember my my sister really enjoying it. She's got big fake titties as well. Yeah. Not your sister. I don't know about your sister. Wow. Good, right. I'm glad we clarified that. I I I best uh pass over to somebody else to make the next list. Pass over?

SPEAKER_03 20:10

I am gonna go for I'm going for a a a twofer. And it's two secretaries that were in Mad Men, Joan Holloway and Peggy Olson. I never caught this show. Obviously, it's which one is uh Christina Hendricks was Joan Holloway and Elizabeth Moss was Peggy Olson, and you kind of have to talk about these two because the show sort of deliberately sets them up as kind of two different types of approaches to you know femininity and navig how a woman navigated the work environment as a secretary. But these two women became very powerful through different means. You know, Peggy Joan Holloway, Christina Hendrix using a sort of obvious. Yeah. So like but she was obviously really fiercely intelligent and good social instincts. Doesn't she say in the She uses her sexuality as well. Doesn't she say I can't wait till you're all in Vietnam? Yeah, yeah. She was really clever, very smart and all that. And she ran the office for ages before it was like formally acknowledged and she was like, you know, because this was advertising in the 1950s, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:11

And then Peggy was kind of the opposite. She was like the handmaidens. Yeah, Ellis, the Scientologist. She was kind of you know, dressed very dowdy and a bit sort of like downtrodden, but was super sharp, and the quality of her work was like what got her through. So these two sort of journeys through it alongside Don Draper, yeah, two secretaries, right at the heart of what that show was about. Selena Kyle.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

She was Max Shrek's secretary. Was she? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:48

Max Shrek was Christopher Walker. Sure was.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

And yeah, he's a real bastard to her. And eventually she falls out of the thing into the kid is with Batman, but she uh she's basically. Almost killed and sort of resuscitated in a way by the cats and then becomes a totally different person, the Catwoman persona, and she's that the Michelle Pfeiffer one, is it?

SPEAKER_03 22:10

She's super sexy, yeah. She if there's a famous scene where she walks out with the whip. She does the mannequins. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

She barely does it in one take.

SPEAKER_03 22:18

You can see they've got a camera shot of her doing it on take and everybody clapping after she did it.

SPEAKER_02 22:23

And there's also the same way she just comes out of the department store as Catwoman like she's like super. Yeah, but she she just went from a sort of meek and sort of feeble put upon secretary persona into Catwoman. So a transformation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Uh I've got an an actress who's I don't think she's very famous. I've never heard of her, but I do remember her because I watched the Wizard of Lies, which is the Bernie Madoff. Robert De Niro is Bernie Madoff, and this the actress is called Catherine Arducci, and the actual secretary of Bernie Madoff is Eleanor Skylari. And she participated, this Eleanor lady, she participated in the creation of the film. It was half of the film was based on her retelling the story because Bernie Madoff wouldn't say anything and his family wouldn't say anything and no one else would say anything, so she participated, and she was one of the most influential people because apparently she knew that it was a Ponzi scheme.

SPEAKER_03 23:26

She would have had access to everything, wouldn't she?

SPEAKER_00 23:28

But she never said anything to anyone, and she was also one of those people that never got convicted of anything because she was only a secretary. And the film is Withers of Lies. I really like the film and I remember watching it, and it's it's a nice cast, it's Michelle Pfeiffer, De Niro leading, let's say, and it's it's quite good.

SPEAKER_03 23:45

Michelle Pfeiffer twice tonight. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

Well, it's funny that as you said it, I was like, oh, I've got that. Pfeiffer. So but well, Michelle Pfeiffer's in the film, but she's not a secretary as a yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

Ghostbusters. Ghostbusters, what do you want? One of your ones.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

That was uh Harry Howie does a good one of that, doesn't he?

SPEAKER_01 24:02

An Annie Potts plays Janine Melnitz.

SPEAKER_03 24:06

Melnitz, yeah. Um I really fancy her in Ghostbusters too. She's got that sleek Bob. Oh. Like sort of ginger bob with those big glasses, and she's all full New York. She she fucks the thingy. Lewis Tully. Yeah. From Central Park West, I think so, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

Well, she was obviously, you know, employed by Gaul's bastards.

SPEAKER_03 24:27

She was sort of unflappable, or she at least treated like all of the ghostly shenanigans that was going on with the same sort of reverence as she did what they were ordering for like a takeaway or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 24:37

So Yeah, she was like office manager slash like receptionist slash secretary, just did everything. Yeah. Slash managed the ecto containment unit.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

Yeah. Told him they'd better get down to like City Hall and something going on there. But yeah, she was a classic s secretari.

SPEAKER_03 24:59

I have got another twofer. It's the US and UK versions of the office. Oh, okay. Dawn Tinsley, Lucy Davis from the UK office, her love story with Martin Freeman's original manager. Yeah, that was sort of at the It wasn't quite central in the way that the Pam Beasley and what's his fucking name?

SPEAKER_02 25:25

I've never watched the US. I've seen like millions of clips of outtakes.

SPEAKER_03 25:29

Jim is the the character's. No what's his name? The actor. He's married to Emily Kris. Krasinski. John Krasinski. Yeah, John Krasinski. His love story with Jennifer's Pam Beasley is right at the heart of the US office. And they're both sort of different characters. But the UK one, I they're both great characters in their own way, and I think they're both good shows in their very own ways. But I do like the Dawn Tim relationships. It felt very Christmas special. So good. Where he's got her the little teapot and some pens or whatever it was and just encouraged her to keep drawing. Yeah, very nice and understated and very real and uh yeah, very good secretary content. She was like not neither of them are the sort of sexy secretary that you sometimes see, or the hyper competent. This was just a regular person doing a regular job and trying to get by, having like looking at all the weirdness around them. Yeah. Smithers. Smithers, yeah. That was gonna be my pick. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

But go for him, yeah, go on. Here's Mr. Burns is well, he's more than a secretary. He'd like you see, it's like when home takes when he has he gets basically forced to go off a holiday, yeah, and he has to run through like the morning routine with homework, and it's like it's amazing. He's going above and beyond like the normal secretary's role. Yeah. Um Well, because of course he's in love with the And it it reveals that he is unsalaried. Yes. He's doing it for love and devotion of Mr. Burns rather than you know But he genuinely does love him.

SPEAKER_03 26:56

I mean, yeah. Mellow Smithers, you're quite good.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

There's the bit where they think it's like the apocalyptic, you know, the asteroid that's gonna like and he's like, I love you.

SPEAKER_03 27:03

Yeah, he has to like roll back on it after yeah. His debut was in Homer's Odyssey season one, episode three. Most notably, I think about that episode is that he was miscoloured, wasn't he? He had dark, dark skin in that episode.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

He has loads of great ways of reminding Mr. Burns who Homer is. He's one of the chairmoisteners from Sector 70. Yeah, we hide him under Project Bootstrap, stuff like that. Really good. Air moistener. That's how I want to describe all my colleagues.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Yeah, that's brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

Yeah, so Smithers.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Smithers. This has been played by many actors along the or actresses. I don't know, how do you say that this? Moni Penny.

SPEAKER_02 27:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

Is that a secretary? Barnett Penny. Yeah, 100%. Classic.

SPEAKER_02 27:44

Yeah, she was gonna be my pick. Yeah, she's the classic.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Sorry, that I know that, but I I can't really list the Lois Lois Maxwell. Is that the original? That's the original better.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

No. She's really hot. Still hot. She is not that I think she's dead, but she means cremated. But in those those early ones, like she's a mega babe, and you think like all she wants to do is fuck Bond as well.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

All of them are like that's the whole point of it, no, they all want to.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

Do you want a list of actresses that have played Money Penny? Please. I don't have Lois Maxwell, Caroline Bliss was she took over, so she was happy. So Bond like kept kind of never ages, but Moneypenny did until she was no longer able to play him. So Caroline Bliss took over in the Timothy Dalton era. Okay. So through all the Connery.

SPEAKER_03 28:30

Oh right, and the Roger Moore. It was the same one.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

It was Lois Maxwell. It was Lois Maxwell. I didn't realise that. And then Samantha Bond. Wow. Oh. Where was Moneypenny in the Brosnan ones, and then Naomi Harris played Eve Moneypenny. It's the first time she's had a Christian name. And wasn't she some sort of like super spy? No.

SPEAKER_03 28:52

She is like no super spy, though. She wasn't really a secretary. She was a super.

SPEAKER_02 28:56

No, she was in the field. She she shoots him. She shoots Bond. She does. Yes. Guypool? Or Spectacle? Quantum of Gorals. So she was in the field. So she's more fleshed out, and I'm sure I like really feel like Amazon now that they own the whole IB are going to do a Money Penny spin off. And I would watch that to be fair. There's some other ones, some outliers. Barbara Boucher. Remember her? I think she was was she not the one in Bang Bush? Or am I thinking someone else? Anyway, she was the one in the Casino Royale, the David Niven one, and Pamela Salem was money penny in the unofficial Never Say Never again. But that was a lot. But yeah, exactly. But Lois Maxwell is the definitive money name for me. Sorry, I saw your thunder because that was your pick.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

Well, yeah, but no, it's good because I didn't I I didn't know that that was I didn't have all the lists and that. I just thought, is that a secretary or is that a spy?

SPEAKER_03 29:47

Oh she's hundred per she's M's secretary. She is.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

She's just kind of there, right? So she okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:52

I would say she's the if probably the most famous secretary of all of them.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Oh okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

And she was a fucking babe as well.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

Yeah. Well there you go. That's that's all there is to it.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Well you say that. Then the uh Brooklyn 99 has uh Gina Linetti, played by Chelsea Peretti, yeah, and she's a kind of sassy sometimes borderline psychotic. Yeah, give zero zero fucks to anyone. Really funny show. I mean, for twenty uh three minutes or whatever each episode's for, there's so many laughs, and she was in the earlier episodes. I don't think she carried on right to the end. I think uh her own uh comedic kind of uh career was was taken off and she did different things, but she was uh yeah, brilliant in that and uh was uh a secretary that really just made everything fall her way. Yeah. Didn't matter what what they were doing. I've got a couple others here. Ugly Betty, she was a a secretary with America First America First, that was her name. Right, JD I was looking at Mrs. Well, I've got one more, then I'll probably keep that as my as my as my nom. But there's Richard Schiff, he plays Secretary of State, so I didn't know if we were gonna do it.

SPEAKER_03 31:23

He's just a dick, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 31:24

That was in Wakunda forever. Pepper Potts would be the other one as well from Iron Man. I think she's she's like CEO.

SPEAKER_03 31:31

I think she started as his secretary.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Yeah, yeah, that was the the host PA basically.

SPEAKER_02 31:37

Yeah, right. Have you seen because you mentioned that fucking bell and Pete Hexeth? Have you seen that Trump buys them all shoes? Have you seen this? No. Oh, it's amazing. So he he for some reason he has the thing about buying all like his inner circle these shoes, but they don't fit. So you need to look at the pictures of Rubio and wearing these. They're like gone shoes, honestly. Of course you do, you're the bosses there. Absolutely incredible. It's amazing. They're like honestly, it looks like five sizes too big. Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

It's cheap. I'll probably get them too small, so they're just like it's crushing their feet. What a strange man.

SPEAKER_03 32:13

I've only got one more, which I guess will be my nomination. So I've got some secretary themed bits and pieces if you're interested. How about some films? Dial Hard, Fax Me If You Can, The The Tip Exorcist, Toner the Barbarian, a few good memos, whole punch drunk love, and the silence of the laminators. And that would be starring admin driver, post-it Malone, File McLaughlin, Pen Silvestor Stallone, and A Forrest Whitaker.

SPEAKER_02 32:41

Nice. Yeah. Have you ever used a laminator? Yeah. It's great, isn't it? Yeah. I love laminating stuff. Yeah, it's got to be a good thing. Fucking brilliant. Really? Yeah, it's good.

SPEAKER_03 32:49

I've never tried laminating anything.

SPEAKER_02 32:51

No.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

Secretaries get all the fun. You think we've got a laminate. Yeah. It's great.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Yeah. Oh. I'd never thought that that would be a thing that people enjoy doing. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Well, that's because you've never laminated.

SPEAKER_00 33:04

That's true.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

Particularly if you're going to do a fresh ID. Oh, right. Anything farming.

SPEAKER_02 33:10

Any sort of list. Did you nominate? I mean you're holding that till we go. I'm just going to nominate it. Go for it. Is who's watched the series Arrested Development? I'm aware of it. George Bluth's secretary Kitty. She's having a blank and I've seen it since. In the earlier series, she holds all the c has all the records that will maybe help to exonerate him, but not. And every time they'd want to get rid of her, she fucking loses it and says, because she thinks everyone finds her really hot, but she's not hot. Yeah. She's played, she's obviously been attracted lady, but they've sort of played it down. And every time they try and get rid of her, she loses, says, Well, say goodbye to these. She lives up on top. Yeah. That's right. Even when he's like, no, that's what do that. And it keeps happening. It's just like the running gag. It's really funny. So yeah, Kitty. Oh, that's the rest of the relevant. What's your name, Chris?

SPEAKER_00 34:00

Well, I was gonna say I was surprised that there was in during my internet research, there was a secretary that came out from Twin Peaks. I'm surprised you didn't put any Lucy. I think so. I love Lucy. I'm surprised you didn't put that one in. Brilliant, actually. I know you you would you would have been the one to say that. But my secretary nomination goes for Miss Argentina in Beetlejuice. The green world. Green lady, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:24

Oh in hell, are you talking about? The receptionist in hell, the secretary in hell.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

She is, I can tell you, is the receptionist bureaucrat. Yeah, the in hell, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's a good one. The she's in the waiting room room in hell, and she just is green and has red hair. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

Like an umpalumpa or something.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

Yeah, it's kind of like that. Like a sexy umpalum. So she's a receptionist afterlife waiting. That's right, yeah. So apparently that's That's a good one. Beetlejuice, yeah. Yeah. It's a good one. Beetlejuice, I I like that. Daniel?

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Well I'll have that. There was the McClure who was gracing Ferris Bueller. You remember that one? You never liked that. So I didn't have that. And the one I'm going for is the West Wing, and it's Mrs. Dolores Langingham. And if anybody watched the You love that, don't you? Yeah. She was the secretary to the president through all those seasons, and at one point she died because she got old.

SPEAKER_03 35:26

So much if they remade that programme now with them all walking around in their clown shoes, like you're talking about eating fucking McDonald's and Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

It'd be a very different it'd be a very different show. But that's my that's my norm, Mrs. Langrenham.

SPEAKER_03 35:40

And I am going for it's a bit difficult to say, Miss Tess Masher? Tess Masher from the Superman franchise.

SPEAKER_02 35:48

Oh, is that Lex Uther's assistant boyfriend, uh girlfriend slash Yeah. It's specifically Gene Hackman's one.

SPEAKER_03 35:55

Yeah. Yeah. Starts with her. She in the first two movies in the first one, she's like portrays herself as comically stupid, but is actually really switched on and knows exactly what's going on. And she was in the first two Superman movies, not in the others. She was in the Supergirl TV series, and then in James Gunn's Superman 2025, she was played by Sara Sampiao again. Sample. Sampai? Sarah Sampaio. Yeah, Sampaio. That's the one. Sarah Sampaio. Yeah. She's an interesting. Yeah. She was a underwear mogul. She's very pretty. And she takes that she. Jimmy Olson, who's played by I can't remember his name, Skyler, whatever his name is. He's the guy from Booksmark. Yeah, Gizmondo, or whatever his name is. Something like Gizmondo or something. He he she has a foot fetish, or there's some.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

Yes, I know the one. Yeah, yeah. He's they're sort of dating. Yeah, sort of. Bizarry.

SPEAKER_03 36:47

In the background of all the photos she's taken, is all the incriminating evidence to bring down like that.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

Yeah, she's portrayed as being like a ditzy Instagram model. The same thing again, yeah. She's actually doing covert yeah, black ops.

SPEAKER_03 36:57

Yeah. Okay. So test masher.

SPEAKER_02 37:00

Cool. We need one more secretary to be filed in our top five.

SPEAKER_03 37:06

Did we have top five last time? Filing cabinet.

SPEAKER_02 37:09

We didn't get any numbers if we did. Well, we've to be fair, we've been a bit neglectful for the cards. Was it gardens? I think. So I I can't remember. So you do stuff about that. And things. We're gonna talk about our main feature. What's it called? Secretary.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

And then it kind of went like, oh, do you mean that? And then I've seen the The posters horny poster. Out of the gate, the poster. You were like, okay, I'm in for this week's. I said to Kira, I was like, where was it? Did you watch it with the missus? Yeah. Yeah. So did I.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

Did you? Yeah. Right. So Dan sat down to watch this with his daughter. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

The first scene gives you a flavour of what this might be about.

SPEAKER_03 38:01

Well, because it begins in Media Res with our hero Lee.

SPEAKER_01 38:05

She's coming through like on her hands and knees. She's super smart. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

So pencil skirt. Yeah. White blouse. Stockings, I'm assuming.

SPEAKER_03 38:14

She's going off on the stage. And that thing's called a spreader bar.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Yeah, a spreader bar. So you can have those for your legs or for your arms. She is wearing them, she has them applied to her wrists, so she cannot move her arms, but she's still undertaking, like any good secretary, um the the morning routine. Her mundane administration task. She's making coffee, she's I did fear that the thing that she pulls out, whatever the document is she pulls out the typewriter with her mouth, would be blemished. I think so. I don't think that can go to clients. Well, there could be consequences for that kind of blemishing, I would think, so it's so uh she goes into the office and closes the door, and then we go back to her.

SPEAKER_03 38:54

How does she do the stapling? Is she doing that with her? She just bangs it with her chin.

SPEAKER_02 38:57

Yeah. But someone has placed them where they can be stapled by her doing that. Yeah, she takes the documents, she gets him a cup of coffee. I also didn't think that she stirred the sugar in well enough. Again, could be consequences. You can get quite attached to that way of stapling, can't you? Yeah. I've staple gunned my leg once, we fucking sore. Really? Yeah, yeah. There's nothing to do with like this sort of thing. But yeah, she goes into the boss's office and closes the door, and then we go back six months to see how we've arrived at this particular point. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

And she kind of starts telling the story, right? She's the narrator, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:32

She says I was released from an institution on the day of my sister's wedding, which is a good way. It's like we see her, she's kind of frumpy, really, and she's wearing really shit kind of shit.

SPEAKER_02 39:42

She's no shinpad. What we what we've seen her like looking really glamorous and sexy, now she's wearing like biff socks and shitty shoes. Yeah. She's kind of like body language is all kind of down.

SPEAKER_03 39:52

Yeah, hair's not really washed. And when we do see her later at the party that she goes to, she's wearing like this oversized prom dress is really unflattering. Yeah. No shape or silhouette, as you're supposed to say, I think.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

She's watching it's her sister, isn't it? She says. Yeah. Like this the actual wedding ceremony, then there's this cake and all the stuff, and everyone's happy, and she legs it off to her room and gets a box out. Yeah. She has a box of paraphernalia.

SPEAKER_03 40:20

I think it's a ballerina that she's managed to sharpen. She's got various like personal implements in there that have obviously been favourites over the years. But yeah, she takes a ballerina with a sharpened foot.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

Yeah, she's got like a whetstone that she sharpens the foot of it, and then you see she's self-harmed. She's got a that's why I guess why she's been in an institution.

SPEAKER_03 40:40

She's Yeah, slightly later she'll reveal that when her par her parents are a fucking car crash, her dad is a is enough, but he's an alcoholic.

SPEAKER_02 40:49

He's dry at this point. Yeah. Or he had been, and I think he starts drinking at the wedding, doesn't he? He hugs her and she says, I thought you I thought you'd stop drinking. And he just brushes that off, and then immediately like he just crashes and burns. He's fucked.

SPEAKER_03 41:02

But I think obviously a pattern of sobriety and non-sobriety and all that stuff. And her mum is like highly strung and avoiding really what's going on with her husband and with her daughter, and he's sort of burying her head in the sand.

SPEAKER_00 41:17

And that's the first time we meet what's his name? Is it Peter? Yes. The mustache mullet guy. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:23

He's like a harmless but kind of do for us sort of boyfriend love interest character, isn't he?

SPEAKER_03 41:30

Yeah. And yeah, it's really like a portrait of a very dysfunctional family and this poor girl at the centre of it who's kind of taken out these frustrations by cutting herself. Yeah. And the hospitalization that has happened just before this encounter was because her mum was giving her grief and she was trying to do the washing up, and she tried to base it she cuts herself so that she can feel the pain, so she doesn't feel the inside pain anymore, right? So but she did it in the sink, accidentally cut herself too deep and ended up, you know, people thought it was a suicide attempt, and in her mind it wasn't. But obviously if you keep harming yourself in a particular way. Yeah. And we see all sorts of horrible like when her parents Is it at this point when her parents are arguing that she's got a hot kettle on the stove and she takes it up and puts it on her thumb?

SPEAKER_00 42:17

Yeah, after the wedding, they they start arguing because the dad is keeping it.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

He throws her to the ground. He's violent.

SPEAKER_03 42:22

He pushes the mum to the floor, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 42:24

And yeah, she gets it's one of those old kettles, you know, that you put on the stove and it whistles, and you can see her you can see her reaction is like pleasure pain. Yeah, it just takes her mind off the the other trauma onto something else, you know.

SPEAKER_03 42:36

Yeah. And and the production design's interesting because it's really vibrant, the colours, but there's full of because it's the wedding and all that stuff, there's full of like plastic sheeting and covering everywhere. So um it gives a the set like a strange, overly produced kind of look, a bit linchian sometimes. And that'll be a big contrast to like the way that Edward Grey's office looks, which is all dark and natural colours. Anyway, she I think it's sort of at the behest of her mum enrolls in a secretarial school, and it turns out she's shit out of typing. Yeah. And you see her like it's almost like a Rocky montage, and she's like looking away, doing it.

SPEAKER_02 43:13

The guy's saying you need to your fingers need to touch the keyboard in a way that they bounce onto the next key, and she's just like, She's like fucking all over it. She's like an amazing typist. Can any type like that? No. No. I I'm I'm like, not that people type like not a novice. You can look at the screen and don't have to look in your to try and find a key. But like number wise, because I've got an account and I can do the number bit like a picture on that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

Number wang. Number wang. But can you kind of just look at the screen and type a whole email without looking down at the keyboard? Because I'm not quite there. I'm not bad. But I would make it seven out of ten in that sense.

SPEAKER_02 43:54

But number number wang, doing calculations. Yeah, do that all right. Number wang. Anyway, that's not very sexy. Yeah, I think it's Her mother and also in a in in a way to like almost like being on parole and not going back to being institutionalized, she has to get a job and have a in inverted commas normal life. So she's she starts circling job interviews.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

Well she's trying to take out her to throw away the the kit, she puts it in the bin. Yeah. And then she f she looks at the paper. It's like the the classical thing, the help wanted. She starts looking through the uh and she circles a few things and then is like secretary, come to this place or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 44:41

When he turns up there, it's got like all lights, it's all on like all these bulbs of light. It's like a motel sign. Like a motel sign, exactly, for a secretary wanted, which was really strange, but it's at this law office, a mum takes her there, and as she's going in, uh some secretaries leaving, like all flustered and it's all shit everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 44:59

It just looks like office has been destroyed.

SPEAKER_03 45:01

Yeah, it looks like someone tried to rob the place. Yeah. It does exactly look like that. And it's pretty obvious that secretaries don't really tend to last very long at wherever we're at. And we're at James Spader's place. His casting is interesting because he obviously has quite a lot it's quite loaded his casting with lots of because he's been in lots of sexy films and drive to me, sex eyes and videotape.

SPEAKER_02 45:23

Crashy dude. Sorry, crash is the last thing I've got. Sex eyes and videotape. Yeah. Age of Ultron.

SPEAKER_03 45:28

It's on yeah, exactly. Sexually complicated men, like Ultron. Yeah. Yeah. So they have this bizarre interview, very, very formal. She's quite childlike in her manner as well. And he like instantly leans into it, assuming like he likes to be dominant. Quite dominant, obviously. And he says that she's like massively overqualified and you know she'll find it very dull.

SPEAKER_02 45:55

He won't allow computers. Yeah. It has to be a typewriter. A bit like Tom Hanks in that way. He's ups he's obsessed with typewriters, Tom Hanks. Is he? Yes. Did not know that.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

You didn't have one on that island where he was.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

Absolutely true, yeah. In in the real life, Tom Hanks.

SPEAKER_03 46:12

He doesn't want a computer. Big big typewriter fan. Anyhow. So despite the promise of it only being dull work, she signs up to it and it visibly boosts her getting this job. And he's got it's a really strange place, it's all dark and all that sort of stuff, and he's got these like huge glass cases with orchids in it that he injects stuff into in a very phallic suggested manner and it mists all over it. And he won't touch the phone. He uses like like I don't know if he's a big thing. Well, it was Dart. It's Dart's desk.

SPEAKER_02 46:44

He's separated from his wife? Yes. She appeared. It's January Jones, isn't it? Is that is that who that was? I thought it was. Anyhow, turned it on ASMR. Eating sweets. She turns up and destroys his coat, I think. She slams it. She scrambles all over it.

SPEAKER_03 47:07

While he hides in the cupboard, it's been the only time that you see him be a bit like Yeah, he's not quite as always as dominating as he as he might first appear.

SPEAKER_02 47:16

And she says, just tell him to sign the fucking agreement or the settlement, I think. The divorce settlement, obviously. And so she's a bit like, ooh, fucking hell, what's going on? And then we're gonna get to see her do some typing, do some letters for it.

SPEAKER_03 47:29

Well, he's very exacting, has impeccably high standards, and everything is done manually, like you said, on a typewriter, no computers. And he's got these red markers, hasn't he, that he circles her The mistakes the mistakes on to alert them.

SPEAKER_02 47:48

There's a few before it starts to get horny.

SPEAKER_03 47:50

There's just a few where he sort of berates her for making mistakes. And there's there's so many scenes that are loaded with sexual tension as well, like when he's getting her to bait mouse traps and she's like hiking up her skirt and got one leg bent over and she's looking back at him and all that stuff. It's like you're just waiting for them to fuck at some point, aren't you?

SPEAKER_02 48:08

Really Yeah, it'll take fucking ages though, because it it's he's Well, it's not really his bag either. He's really repressed. Yeah. But let's just cut to the chase.

SPEAKER_03 48:17

Like eventually there's there's like one mistake too many. Well, it's important first though, because before that, I can't quite remember how it happens, but he after one particularly bad chewing out, she goes back to her desk to self-harm and he catches her doing that and then he brings her back, and he's actually fairly tender, but he uses his position. She is so subservient to him in a work sense, anyway. And he uses that power to say, You won't do that again, you won't be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 48:43

That's what the the the wife says, right? She's like submissive, just what she li what he likes, or something like that to her, you know, when when she's like guys in here. And she's just like, What?

SPEAKER_03 48:54

But So he and then he commands her, he says, You will never hurt yourself again. And like she's absolutely freed by that. Yeah. She takes it and throws it off the bridge. She gets rid of all of it.

SPEAKER_02 49:05

I don't like that though, littering. It's no it's it's beneficial for her, bad for the environment. Yeah, it's not good for the environment. But she does get rid of the good to call that out though, Chris thanks. Her the tools of her self-harm are gone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:17

And yeah, then it's gonna get to And he's told her like she's built herself up a bit as well because he's told her to dress sexier and all this stuff. So they've got all the things.

SPEAKER_02 49:26

How to answer the phone, how to like really sell the sort of you're the front of office, you represent me in all these dealings, and she visibly, like you say, grows and she sort of really projects her voice, and this is how and he's and he like congratulates her and is like, Yes, that's what you so she's like buzzing about all this.

SPEAKER_03 49:42

Yeah, but unfortunately, she does make one or two typos, yeah, and that is gonna really come back to haunt her in a scene that you definitely should have watched with all your family.

SPEAKER_02 49:52

Pulls her into his office and bring that letter, I think. Or he's got it on the desk, and he's like, put it on the desk, and she's like, What? And he's like, put it on the desk and bend over my desk. He tells her to read it, and she's she's still like unsure, like what the fuck's going on, and he's like, get your face close to it, bend over it, put your face close to the letter and read it to me. What does that say? And as she starts to read it out, it the camera's like locked on her face, yeah, and you just hear th whack and it just starts spanking. It starts slapping around.

SPEAKER_03 50:20

And she is not upset about it. No. Well, she's just exchanged the pain that she gave herself for his pain that's inflicted on her, so it's a bit difficult to work out what whether that's really good or not, but it certainly seems beneficial for her in this, anyway. So after she's had ass spanked, she's sent off to uh fix the letter, isn't she? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:40

And this sort of carries on so like deliberate mistakes, and she's super into it.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

Well what now she's making mistakes like she would never have made before.

SPEAKER_02 50:50

She's getting what she wants, he is getting what he wants. She we see her at home reading up about who's paying for this?

SPEAKER_01 50:56

The clients are paying for this time, though, aren't they? Dan's interested in working.

SPEAKER_00 51:02

I'm just thinking like they make a hall of fame of mistakes. She framed, or he frames all her letters with the circle on the way to the side.

SPEAKER_03 51:10

On the walls of the office, it's just all of the scene where she later on.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

Clients might be asking a few questions.

SPEAKER_01 51:16

Imagine clients coming. Have I paid for there's an hour's type in here.

SPEAKER_00 51:20

There's a scene where she wears a saddle, she's like with hay on his desk. Yeah, they do a little montage, don't they? Yeah, she's got a carrot in her mouth, and she's just She's on all fours on top of his desk, hay lying around. Yeah, carrot, saddle escalating this behaviour.

SPEAKER_03 51:37

But they never fuck. They never fuck. He's not interested in that.

SPEAKER_02 51:40

And but we do see her at one point at home reading Masturbating. No, but at one point she's reading a book or listening to an audio, like a tape about Dom and sub-relationships. So she fully understands.

SPEAKER_03 51:52

Well, at first, she's reading fucking Mary Claire about how to please your man, and she very quickly works out that that's not gonna do it, and that's not what he's into. Yeah. And so then, yeah, she does sort of so she does her homework, she really understands. This is like proper kink stuff. Yeah, this is BDSM. And it's mostly but a lot of it is about the power. There's a lot of she talks about being told to walk home instead of get in the car and how she enjoyed the journey and she never was. It's the first time I've ever really walked anywhere. Yeah. Like with proper intent by herself. And then she feels like he's with her because he's told her to go and do it. And then, like, really kinky shit as well. Like, she'll phone him up and he goes, like, right, you can have one spoonful of potato. Brutal, my mess is like, What peas? As much ice cream as you want for dinner, and that's it. And she's like at the dinner table, like eating these peas in the family, like, oh and then because she is a bit frustrated when he does eventually sort of turn his back on. Is this when she because she's also with Peter?

SPEAKER_02 52:50

He is sort of yeah, Peter's like just he's never gonna cut the mustard for her.

SPEAKER_00 52:55

No, but and in fact, it's she tries to get him to spank her.

SPEAKER_02 53:00

Yeah, well, she yeah, they're having sex and she keeps getting his hand and putting it on her ass. But like and doing this, and it's she lies across his lap like that, and he's a bit like, what? And she he says, Oh, I've got a condom. She's like, That's not what I mean. She's fucking really frustrated about it. Yeah. But he is also he writes, he he actually types out a letter to her or a little note saying, I'm sorry, I'm so disgusting, I don't know why I'm like this. I'm really sorry. Yeah, he's really ashamed of himself. He does, so he can't reconcile it himself. The lawyer the way that he carries on James Spader. Yeah, he shreds that.

SPEAKER_03 53:34

Um But it's a key to how he feels, and he does like And that's when he kind of he cuts it off a little bit and just sort of goes back to a normal like she starts making typos and put it in front of him and he's not interested, or he's busy on calls and all this sort of stuff. She's well frustrated by that, and her plan to get it back is amazing. She sees this big fat worm in the garden and she picks it up and she writes a letter to him, posts it, and she sees her all sexy, and she's put this fucking live worm in the post and sends it to him so that when he opens it later, he draws round it and he gets his red pen out, draws round it, and they've got a client there, and he's like, Miss Holloway, get in here now, and she's like, But Mr. Blah blah's here, and he's like, Get in here now, and comes in for another.

SPEAKER_00 54:20

She's there with a grin, just like Is that many wanks on her?

SPEAKER_03 54:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:23

That's the first time he actually So he gives her a bit of a thrashing and then just jerks off on a client there. No, client's not in the back. Right, okay. She has to walk out with spinks all up her back.

SPEAKER_02 54:34

Yeah, but he doesn't he doesn't spank her, he just No, he just he just bends her, she's expecting the spanking and she can just hear him, and he's like really audibly and like visibly like wanking. Yeah, and he just she's got like a sort of silk blouse and all the back of it's just like got cheers off it.

SPEAKER_03 54:48

And she goes to the bog and is is it the client that's in the other Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:51

No, no, it's the P it's the other PA in the other cubicle, and she just friggs herself off in the bog until she comes. Yeah, and she's like she gets she wipes it off with the tissue, like smelling it, yeah. So horny. Honestly, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 55:04

Wow, I know Yeah, this is not yeah. Why did I watch the stuff?

SPEAKER_02 55:07

Honestly, when you're watching it, that is the content, but I didn't think it was like super perfect or it's not depraved or anything. It just takes it's just like what takes level and level, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:18

Well, two consent in adults, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:20

Whatever whatever floats you say still have not had sex at this point, right?

SPEAKER_00 55:24

Yeah. Yeah, and then they and then I think he just after this, he just tells her you're you're fired.

SPEAKER_01 55:30

Maybe maybe it's kind of a um a blueprint to how to not cheat on your partner. You know, this is rid of her.

SPEAKER_03 55:40

This is all legit he does, yeah. So he just tells her you're fired. Because he's reconciled, you know, it's again all that stuff about how disgusting he is and the shame and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 55:51

This is not your traditional kind of relationship, you know, that you might you know normally understand. Also, she's young and vulnerable.

SPEAKER_03 55:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:58

And he might be exploiting her.

SPEAKER_01 55:59

Well, she's come from a mental institution. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 56:02

So she kind of rebounds back. Yeah, she's very childlike with her with Peter. With Peter, and he proposes to her and she sort of says yes. Doesn't really just it all happens very quickly out of uh to the point where we actually get the wedding.

unknown 56:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:17

She's in a wedding dress. No, we should have dressed. She's trying on wedding dresses.

SPEAKER_03 56:21

But we're very close because his uh brother is getting dressed.

SPEAKER_00 56:24

Yeah, I think her mother-in-law says as long as her mother-in-law says, as long as you don't breathe throughout the wedding, you should be fine in this, right? Yeah, it's a hand me down, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 56:33

And at that point she's like, No, this is not what I want.

SPEAKER_03 56:36

She runs away in It's still in the wedding dress.

SPEAKER_02 56:38

She runs off from his office. If I'm the fella here, I'm like, whoa! Yeah. Woman in a wedding dress. She runs in to declare her love.

SPEAKER_03 56:46

She says, I love you, and he's like He's not really sure, so she has to undergo a test. So he tells her to just sit in the chair and don't move.

SPEAKER_00 56:54

And hands on the desk, feet on the feet on the floor.

SPEAKER_03 56:57

Do not take down Don't move, and I'll be back.

SPEAKER_02 57:00

And then he goes. And the camera just stays on her, and you can see it gets dark, so it's not like he's not just popped out for coffee, he's fucking gone. And she completely subservient, just stays there.

SPEAKER_03 57:13

Maybe for a day he's watching from and then he calls Peter. He calls yeah, exactly. He calls Peter, Peter comes along to try and convince her. She actually you see her piss herself. Yeah, it's after the city.

SPEAKER_02 57:24

Because first of all, Peter comes in and it's like, what the fuck's going on? We're getting married. And he goes to her and she says, I don't want to, leave me alone. She finds him, he pulls her off the desk and she fucking freaks out. She's like, No, you can't like kicks him in the dick. She thinks like she's like failed the test, you know, because she's come away from the desk. So she kicks him in the bollocks, tells him the fuck off, and she goes straight back, bang. And Mr.

SPEAKER_03 57:45

Grey, which is his name, unbelievably, if you think of fifty shades of grey, but Mr. Grey is watching his.

SPEAKER_02 57:53

Yeah, probably was. And then yeah, she stays so long that she pisses herself. She becomes this kind of minor sort of news celebrity. They think she Well, everybody comes. Her the parents come this like a hunger strike.

SPEAKER_00 58:04

All the all the all the characters that have been in the film throughout the film, they all end up outside the this guy's. I just don't get it.

SPEAKER_01 58:11

So she totally embarrasses herself in front of all these people.

SPEAKER_03 58:14

Everyone that we see, and one of Gray's other secretaries who might have fulfilled a similar sort of role in his life, but that had gone at some point. Another one, a secretary who also kind of loved him in this submissive way. And she just stays there, stays there, stays there. And eventually, I think it's three days. Yeah. Three days he comes in through the door. The best bit actually is really just before he comes in, is her dad comes in and he's again trying to go sober, but he's he's a bit like I'm just I'm proud of you. He just tells that's all he does. He says, I don't know what any of this is, but I'm proud of you, he tells her. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:48

If only he did know.

SPEAKER_02 58:50

Exactly. Then Gray comes in and he scoops her up, um, carries her out. Which I found interesting.

SPEAKER_00 59:00

Yeah, always a bit.

SPEAKER_03 59:01

But it looks very romantic as he's carrying around, she's got her arms around his face. I carry her across the threshold.

SPEAKER_02 59:07

She sounds an absolute dream boat. Yeah. Uh well you go see her naked now because that's what happens. They they this is where they have sex.

SPEAKER_03 59:13

He bathes and feeds her, and you see her kissing. She's got she's covered in scars, obviously, from herself. She says this is the first time I've ever felt beautiful. Yeah. And then they fuck. And they she says we can't do this 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and she says, Why not? And she's got a mask. He says, why not? No, sorry, it's the other way around. He says we can't just do this all the time, and she's like, Why not? Which is at the crux of their relationship. And then I think the next thing is you see their shotgun wedding, they're dressed in black and he's fucking her up against the tree with a tree. She's tied up to a tree, yeah. Yeah, with all the bark like rubbing into her back. So yeah, honeymoon was a bit bondagey. Wow. And then like after that, you go to like the sort of domestic side, I guess, of their relationship. They're just making the bed or you know, talking about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:00

But he tells her this needs to be the line he's. Oh, it's still very precise tighter. For that for that sheet tighter.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:07

But they're just doing it or whatever, and all that sort of stuff, and it's all the mundane shit, and then she just picks up like a cockroach into their well-made bed and drops it.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:14

So my message goes, I didn't get the cockroach bit. I'm like, She wants to be spanked.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:19

Yeah. Go and get yeah, exactly. Go get the red pen. Yeah. And so, yeah, I guess underneath the surface.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:26

And then he goes to work, she sits outside, then you you know, on the porch. She kind of looked straight at the camera at that point, didn't she? Yeah. And then that's the end.

unknown 1:00:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:36

I'm pretty sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:37

She's looking directly at the Who did you watch this with, Reeks? I saw this by myself, Dad. Oh, did you? I'd seen this before as well, so I knew what to expect. Right. Is that why you watched it? I don't know. Chris, did you watch it with it? Yeah, I watched it with Kira, yeah. How how did that go down in the uh in the household?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:54

I mean she watched it. It's not like she turned around and whatever. She was a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:59

Did you tell her not to turn around? Fuck. Tell her, you tell her what's what. Did you tell her to watch it and not turn around?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:04

No, no, no. No. It's it's fine. To be fair, she she didn't really she didn't this is not what she's into, so she didn't Is that what she said? Well yeah, that's what she told me at least. But she didn't enjoy it, but No. Wasn't honestly neither did I.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:22

But this this movie is now twenty four years old. I mean a lot has moved on. Like to for people people know what BDSM is, but they didn't necessarily back in early.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:31

And I I guess the big comparison is Fifty Shades of Grey, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:36

Which came out a lot later and was a lot more vanilla than this, I think.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:40

I've not seen it or read it or really aware of the content other than it's like.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:44

I have seen Fifty Shades of Grey, and it wasn't It's Twilight fanfiction. Yeah, it it didn't sound anything like as I don't know how edgy is this.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:54

I haven't seen this sort of stuff in many other like Hollywood films.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:59

No. Sorry, as far as two freaks with matching freak meeting up and freaking out.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:05

I think it's probably to me seems like a fairly sensitive portrayal of someone getting involved in a BDSM relationship.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:13

Yeah, it it sounds like they found each other, you know what I mean? And and obviously they got married in the end, and it wasn't one person being into their their side of the relationship just to please the other person. It was like they were both getting something. Yeah, he's concerned, he has misgivings about whether he might be exploiting her, I think.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:34

And she you see that she is Well, and a bit of shame from what he's getting turned on by.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:39

But we can also see that she's reading up and learning about what he's doing. How to please him, you know, so she's going into it with open eyes.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:47

Yeah. I do find uh trading one form of physical abuse for another a bit comp not even I'm just gonna say complex, basically. I'm not even like not problematic. I mean it's definitely the better of the two options. Exactly. And the m uh but the movie is not too much trying to sell you on that idea. It's more about these like people who found each other more than anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:09

And and the fact that he kind of cared enough to say you're not gonna do that anymore, and it had the instinct on her to throw away her testing her by putting I remember what the first time this is the second time I was seeing it.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:21

The first time I watched it, I was like, that is a bit weird. So like leaving her for three days to see if she passes the test is a bit like that's a bit fucked up.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:29

The power dynamics are a bit, but then that's part of what gets them all.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:32

Well, I was referring to her throwing away the the tools of harm and things that you know he'd be. He'd seen her do and thought that's not healthy. Obviously, it's not. Then his alternatives don't sound much more healthy, but maybe he feels in control enough to think, Well, I wouldn't ask you to do anything that would really cause you a great deal of pain.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:59

There's never she's done some pretty awful things to herself.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:02

Yeah, that was the probably for me, that was the best part of the film where he actually he's honest, he's I'm shy, you're shy, I'm like this. Just from now on, he's quite assertive. He just tells her how it is and and she feels good about it, then it's just and even the light, how she walks through the park and all that, that's like the nicest part of the film for me. You know.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:21

They never explicitly have a bit where they talk about safe words or consent, but you never It never goes over the never get a feeling that he would do anything to her that she wouldn't if she said I don't like that, he would stop.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:33

There's a little bit of boundary pushing on both of their behalves, isn't there? Like how far can this go safely that they're exploring? Yeah, it's it all seemed very consensual. Pretty horrible. The original story that's based on, so it's based on a short story, it's very different, and the sort of like rom-com ending of this is in the book is quite completely different, is like trauma and settlement money and all kinds of stuff. Yeah. So a very different feel to what this was.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:00

Well, the the fact that the word used there, consensual, makes it sound much more palatable than you know, and enjoyable to watch, I I guess, than if there had been uh an imbalance of power one way or the other or harm that you know would they even have sex till like really later on in the film.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:22

When they're already a lot of the time, like she's not wearing like super sexy outfits. This the one that they show you at the start is when it's actually her most glamorous. That's when she's like fully into it. Yeah. Most of the time she's just wearing like Bridget Joan, big pants and like tights and stuff, and she's not like dressing like overtly sexual. Flirtatious, it's not exploited.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:42

And even the blouse is not like open so you can see She's a secretary in a lawyer's office.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:47

She's gotta be kind of professional in case clients come in, I guess. I don't think that they flash their underwear to clients per se.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:54

Oh three. Maybe they should three hundred quid an hour, they should, shouldn't they? Score's really good as well, very unusual. Angelo Badlemente, yeah. And the very unusual rhythm to it, like like almost like the rhythm of speech the school has. It's very bizarre because the speech as well between them is very stilted purposefully. Like because they're both playing a role within a role within a role a little bit with themselves as well. So Yeah. Did you enjoy this one? Yeah, I really like this. I really really like this.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:23

You you didn't think so much of it. No, it's too long. Right. How long was this one hour fifty one. Yeah, one hour fifty one. Okay. Right. So not But it's not much action.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:35

And it's just like it kind of slow burner. It kinda goes again through the whole I I understand that they need to reach that and it's it's the whole journey. And I liked a few bits and a few aspects of it, and I think both of them played the role really well. Yeah. And the the the decor of the w what was this? 99, 92? 2002. 2002. Okay. It's it's such a it's a throwback decor with just like houseplants and n like Rig said, natural colours and just there's nothing, you know, like is it is now minimalistic and blah blah blah. It's it's just how things used to be, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:13

That that's how an office used to be like and A are you a big BDSM fan yourself?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:18

No, not really. I don't really understand. And and but look, I understand more now, and I'm I'm i the the thing is again, this is the the part where she's wearing the spreader bar. The spreader bar and the saddles and all that. In the film, it looks like she's the happiest she's ever been in the film, right? And and in her life. So if if that's how these people feel and that's how they are, I'm really happy to be able to do it. Float your boat. Just because I don't know how it is. I'm not saying because of that I didn't enjoy the film.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:53

But then you're spreader bar.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:54

Yeah. Would you rather have your ankles or your legs?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:57

Ankles.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:58

That was very quick. And let's together. Are you on the full frame? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. An X frame. Yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:06

Imagine so. So I've heard. I won't ask you the same question, but uh is a big thing in your house? BDSM? Just a kind of his dad's round. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah. Okay. So it sounds like a a strong recommend, at least from two-thirds of the bad dads.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:29

It's still a strong recommendation. Yeah, yeah. I enjoyed it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:32

It's still a strong recommend. Uh i if it would have been a bit shorter, it would have been even better. It's 151. Let's say you take out ten minutes for the credits.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:39

Okay. And a little bit of start. So we could you could probably say it's one fifty.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:42

Could we could we tell Chris he is gonna enjoy it?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:45

Yeah, you are gonna enjoy it. You are gonna enjoy it, Chris. Put your hands on that chair. And spread them wide. Yeah, strong recommend. Strong. Back to normal programming. Programming. Programming. For next week? Someone's nom's Riggs, maybe? Must be one of the Dan or Riggs, I think it's mine.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:12

I think I did the week or two before. I think it's Riggs. I think it's Rigs. I did Gardner.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:17

So that was me. You did this. It's Cy. And it's you, Simon.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:21

Yay. Okay, Cy to Nom for next week. Wow. Okay. Which horror fest are we gonna be putting on?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:27

We haven't had a horror movie for a little while. We don't need one. I'm still getting over the last one. We haven't done like old Kung Fu movies and stuff either.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:33

We haven't done any Chuck Norris May Rest in Peace. Yeah, yeah. Rest in power. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:39

All that remains is to say Siddy signing out. Laraver.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:43

Sorry. Sorry. Dan's gone. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry.