Midweek Mention... This Is England

On this episode of Bad Dads Film Review, the team reviews This Is England (2006), Shane Meadows’ raw, semi-autobiographical coming-of-age drama starring Thomas Turgoose, Stephen Graham, Vicky McClure, Joe Gilgun, Andrew Shim, Rosamund Hanson, and Jack O’Connell.

In this episode

• Recording outside the man cave in brutal heat, with England playing later and possible background birds
• Returning to Shane Meadows after the dads’ love for Dead Man’s Shoes
• Meadows writing from lived experience and Shaun Field as a loose version of the young Shane Meadows
• The film’s 1983 setting: Falklands aftermath, Thatcher-era mood, working-class Midlands anonymity, and immaculate period detail
• Shaun’s grief over his father’s death and the brutal school bullying around his clothes
• The infamous Mini joke, the playground fight, and Reegs’ detour into the real-world Mini passenger record
• Woody’s gang as surrogate family: underpass tea, derelict-house “hunting”, haircuts, boots, braces, and the gifted Ben Sherman
• Skinhead culture before the racist takeover: ska, soul, punk, clothes, belonging, and style
• Smell, the shed snog, New Romantic fashion, and the very awkward age-gap discussion
• Combo’s entrance from prison and the immediate tonal shift from funny coming-of-age story to something threatening
• Stephen Graham’s performance as Combo: vulnerable, pathetic, charismatic, manipulative, racist, and terrifying
• Combo gaslighting Woody, exploiting Shaun’s Falklands grief, and splitting the gang
• The National Front meeting: respectable presentation, simple blame politics, Frank Harper’s speaker, and Gadget’s “NASHNIL” spelling
• Shaun’s corruption under Combo: racist intimidation, the corner-shop robbery, and the stolen language of national pride
• Lol rejecting Combo and the emotional humiliation that turns outward into violence
• Milky and Combo bonding over music and roots before Combo’s jealousy erupts
• The brutal beating of Milky, Shaun being forced to watch, and Combo’s immediate collapse into remorse
• Shaun throwing the St George’s flag into the sea as a rejection of the racist version of England
• The continuing relevance of the film’s politics from 1983 to 2006 to now
• Strong recommendations for the follow-up series: This Is England ’86, ’88, and ’90

Bad Dads consensus

• Sidey: Strong recommend — sees it as at least a 9/10 and reads the final flag moment as Shaun rejecting the National Front’s corrupted version of England.
• Pete: Strong recommend — praises the film’s lived-in authenticity, performances, and the follow-up series; still holds Dead Man’s Shoes as a 10/10 comparison point.
• Reegs: Strongly positive — highlights the bleakness, the current relevance of the racist rhetoric, and Stephen Graham’s frighteningly layered work.
• Cris: Engaged with the period detail, humour, and discomfort of the film’s tonal shift, particularly once Combo arrives.

Final take

This Is England begins as a warm, funny, scruffy story about a lonely boy finding friends, then slowly reveals how easily grief and poverty can be weaponised by people offering simple enemies and ugly certainty. It is beautifully observed, brilliantly acted, deeply uncomfortable, and still horribly relevant.

We love to hear from our listeners! By which I mean we tolerate it. If it hasn't been completely destroyed yet you can usually find us on twitter @dads_film, on Facebook Bad Dads Film Review, on email at baddadsjsy@gmail.com or on our website baddadsfilm.com.
 
Until next time, we remain...
 
Bad Dads

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:12

Of your noms for England week, because we are recording a day late because there's an England fixture later on. Yeah. Which we're not watching. And this is our midweek of this is England. We just say fucking hot.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Yeah, it's going to be like record-breaking temperatures this week, maybe even starting today or tomorrow.

SPEAKER_04 0:33

I think we might have broken around. It did break today, but it's going to be like many degrees hotter tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

So we're going to be like when England play in a garrison. We're going to be a bit, you know, slower, take our time. Considered. Considered, build up, yeah, know when to use our own.

SPEAKER_04 0:49

So we're so because it's unbearably hot in the Man Cave, we are recording outside the Man Cave, you may hear some external factors. The chirping of the cards are I don't know if that came out the last time.

SPEAKER_05 1:02

It didn't, though.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

No, no, it didn't really, no. It was quite.

SPEAKER_04 1:05

So ignore all that.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Just add some background stuff.

SPEAKER_04 1:08

Yeah. But we are talking about the film, it's a Shea Meadows one, the second Shea Meadows joint we did. We really liked we loved Dead Man's Shoes, didn't we? Yep. Um and so we're going for This Is England.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Um I've done no research or watched anything, but this Shea Meadows thought it'll be one of the most like quintessentially sort of making films about England.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

Yes. In fact, I I read something as part of my experience for this week that he was when he was at college and stuff, and he was like looking to break into, you know, he was writing some some scripts and he was, you know, getting involved in like production and things like that, and he was scratching his head about, you know, crazy things to do films about and so on. And then I think somebody that he either worked with or met or whatever said that sometimes the you know the best stories are just ones that are you know inspired that you've experienced or that you are inspired by things that have happened to you or around you or whatever. And I think if you actually look at all of his early work, um there are elements of things that were actually sort of true. And this is probably the closest sort of thing to a biopic. Biopic is a bit of a stretch, but the the the the main character Sean Fields is is loosely based on Shane Meadows himself. Although I thought it was loosely based on Craven growing up as a racist in the in the 80s. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

What in the twenties, you mean?

SPEAKER_03 2:34

In the in the twenties, yeah, I was talking about the 1880s. Right. So yeah, this is essentially he is the the lead character, although it is uh adapted quite a bit for um for the big three.

SPEAKER_04 2:47

Just after the Falklands has ended, I think. Well it's it's it's kind of dura during, but we get some newsreel footage of it. Um and it becomes clear that the the lad in it is twelve. Um has lost his father in the Falklands. You see him getting he's getting a hard time at school. Um rightly, sorry, because of his trousers. And his shoes are really biff as well.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:12

It's I don't know if they actually tell you what which town it is. It's an anonymous.

SPEAKER_03 3:17

They don't, but it's it's set it's meant to be set in the Midlands. I think Sherry Meadows himself is from the Midlands. All of his stuff is set in It's very anti-Thatcher.

SPEAKER_04 3:26

But the period detailing it is fucking spot. I was recognising stuff from my fucking house when I was growing up.

SPEAKER_03 3:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:31

And she looks like my mum's hair, glasses, like fucking everything. It's bang on.

SPEAKER_03 3:36

That was the first thing that sort of so I d I have I did watch this when it sort of first came out. I might have watched it a second time, but this is 2006, is that right? Uh I'm gonna say, so it's 20 years old. Um, and and I think this is so this is the first time I watched it for at least a decade. And some of the I obviously remembered the the story and the all the like the plot lines and stuff, but the I I'd forgotten about the you know, some of the smaller details, but the aesthetic was that was a lot of things.

SPEAKER_04 4:05

All the products in the show. I was like, remember that drink? And I used to get like bicycles, my mum, and you know, or everything. Just remember it was like, oh my god, it's like fucking.

SPEAKER_03 4:14

It is bad, it's highly detailed, like the playground, the you know, all the rooms that they go in, and um, you know, like the lounge of his house and everything, it's all right.

SPEAKER_04 4:23

So he's getting a hard time at school. He's quite little and he's all these other lads, and it's uh it happens to be a dress down day that he gets this hiding that sets it off in motion, and there's the guys dressed in their scar gear, yeah, and he's got this like it's probably charity shop clobber and sort of bit of kind of flares and some sort of shitty sandals and stuff, but it's it's sort of single mum, you know, probably on a military widow's probably like pension, I guess. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Um then he's a working class fee, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:52

Very much so, yeah. And um he's sort of giving he's got a bit about him. He'll answer back to people and stand up for himself, and the this guy tells us a joke, like, um, how many people can you fit in a minute? And he's like, I don't know how many, and he's like, three in the back, two in the front, and your dad in the fucking astro. Oh my god, it's like that. So he launches at him and they have a fight, and he gets a bit of a paste and and then he's sort of skulking his way home, and as he's going through this little kind of underparts thing, there's this group of skinhead lads. Um and they can recognise straight away.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Sorry, I can't stop thinking about it, but I heard because you were talking about all those people in a mini.

SPEAKER_04 5:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Uh I the I was watching a thing with my daughter the other day, and they said the world record for people in a old style mini mini cupid type thing. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

22? 17. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna say 12.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

It's like 27, 28, those two. Yeah, I know, it's mad. It's not possible.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Well, how big are these people though?

SPEAKER_00 5:51

You're like, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:53

Um and they recognise Show that he's kind of upset, and the main guy Woody's like, oh, what's up, fella? You know, and he's he's really friendly, and they are friendly both, they're like up to high tickets.

SPEAKER_03 6:06

There's only really like Woody, like Jill uh Joe Gilgan character who sort of takes pity. He's kind of like the leader of these guys. Leader of the other. He he sort of the others kind of follow his lead.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Oh, is he the guy who's in preaching? Yeah, yeah, he's really good.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

He's brilliant, yeah, he's so good. But yeah, he kind of takes pity on on uh on Sean. He says, Come and sit down, yeah. Come and sit down, I will see the little man and all of that, and then they they the other guys start laughing at his flares and stuff, but he kind of like swats them down. But then Gadget's the the I guess the incumbent butt of all jokes like comes back with a pie and some beers for the boys and everything, and he sees an opportunity that there's oh, there's someone lower than me in the like in the food chain here, so he starts pushing Sean around, going, Oh, you know, this that's where I sit, even though it's like there's a massive long tunnel with like with concrete sit like steps sort of thing. And yeah, there's a there's a bit of a bit of a scuffle. Sean kind of goes off um back.

SPEAKER_04 7:01

He gets the ass and then he goes home and and his mum's calls him in, and she can see he's got like a few marks on his face, and she realizes it's been in his scrap and she's really worried about him.

SPEAKER_03 7:11

Um Yeah, and it I mean he's he says he goes, I've I've been picked on three times today because of my clothes. Once at the outside the corner shop, some kids are giving him a hard time, then at school, and then um and then by gadget uh you know in in the group. But so the the you know, the the clothing and his look and his image like is gonna be a theme in the film.

SPEAKER_04 7:31

And it's this lad playing Sean, Thomas Turgu's yeah, it's his debut performance, it's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_03 7:37

Have you seen have you ever seen the the like the VT of his audition? No. Basically, like Shay Meadows, like the apparently there are other like way more capable, trained child actors and so on. And apparently Shay Meadows just as soon as he saw him, he's like, No, this is our lad, this this is him. And he was he's a bit performance. Yeah, and it because they what the in in the in that audition, they basically sort of get him to like relax a bit, almost like the cameras aren't rolling, and they just see his like real character, and he's exactly like he is in the film, he's a bit bit cocky, but something endearing about him at the same time, and he's he you know he's not frightened of people, um, and that that comes across in his performance.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

I don't know that he ever really escaped this role, did he? Like in some ways, like from the world.

SPEAKER_03 8:18

I think he's he's yeah, he's gonna have typecasting issues. Even when you saw him in like uh years later in um Game of Thrones, like straight away, he was just like a walk-on pretty much in Game of Thrones. You're like, oh it's uh Sean from This is England, it's like he's he still looks exactly the same. Where's their next meeting? Um right, so gadget comes and throws a stone at the window um because he feels bad and he's got all these like some wit mad get up, and they're going out hunting, yeah, which basically involves going to like derelict houses with like hammers and and like pellet guns and stuff and just trashing them.

SPEAKER_04 8:53

But that's that is their level of like that's the level of hygiene so they get up to. They're not and there's fuck all else to do as well. There's a really impoverished area, yeah. So they go out and they do this, but they don't cause it's I'm gonna say victimless crime, do you know what I mean? They're brought it up like abandoning it. It's just like silly shit. They're not actually hurting anyone, but it's not been great, obviously. Um, but they look after each other, they are a bit of a sort of sorry good family. Um and then they start to get him into the whole scene, so he's he starts to dress like them. He goes, he wants the Doc Martin boots. Um he makes his mum promise that he's gonna get the boots, and she's like, You're not having those, they're awful. And they have this interaction with the shopkeeper. These ones are from London, yeah. They're awful. Um, and then they they go back to um the flats.

SPEAKER_03 9:41

Oh, I I had a few pairs of Doc Martins, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:43

Didn't have the boots, I had just some shoes, but um then so they're knocking about with the girls and whatever, and then they they shave his hairs. They do say you know, is your mum gonna be like, yeah, Sam, shave his hairs, and then they he's got I think he's got the trousers, the boots, yeah, and I think he's even got the braces over his t-shirt, and they're like, Where's your shirt? Yeah, you've got to put your Ben Sherman on. He's like, I haven't got one. Oh, sorry, you have to fuck off. Ben Sherman is like, um, he's got it, and they're like, Whoa, got you a shirt. So they're really like, they're really into they're looking after him and like bringing him into the fold. And then they're gonna have a party back at someone's gaffe one evening where smell is there.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:20

What a character.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Yeah. What a name as well.

SPEAKER_04 10:23

It's Michelle, but just to explain it later on because they do become boyfriend and girlfriend, and just to explain it to Sean's mum. So it's like it rhymes with Michelle. She looks like boy George, but as a girl. She's got like completely white.

SPEAKER_03 10:37

Yeah, she's got like because it's so they're all like the the the the guys pretty much all dress like skinheads. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:43

Is he like the specials?

SPEAKER_03 10:44

Or like you know, with like the scar, because even Milky, who's black, he's he's part of their group, but he's like Port Pie hat, it's more the kind of like the scar look.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

She's all what kind of new romantic.

SPEAKER_03 10:54

She's yeah, all like new romantic. Yeah. Um, yeah. Obviously the music in the film is great as well. Yeah. So they have a party.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Yeah, no, what is the music? Well, for is it periodically?

SPEAKER_03 11:02

It's like it's scar a bit of like old school punk, a lot of like soul and nice.

SPEAKER_04 11:08

Um so at the party, he says, uh, would you want to go out to the garden with it? And there is like a quite a jarring looking age difference. I don't know what the age difference is between the two of them.

SPEAKER_03 11:18

In real life, it's four years. Right. So she was 17 and he was 13. Right.

SPEAKER_04 11:23

Because they proper time.

SPEAKER_03 11:24

Yeah, they have to like properly snor.

SPEAKER_04 11:26

They go into a shed and they properly snor, and then she says to him, Do you want to suck my tit? And he's you can tell he's like really doesn't know what he's doing, he's and he's a bit embarrassed. Um when they go back into the gaff, this fucking massive dude is well, there's a knock on the door, and when they open the door, this fucking massive fella comes in with a machete going mental and they're all like, What the fuck? Like, oh sorry about the loud music. It's like it's too fucking late for that, and he's swinging it round like a maniac, and then you see um combo come in, Stephen Graham, Stephen Graham's character, like hiding in the doorway, and he bursts in, it's all a bit wind up, and he's just come out of prison, now he's back on the scene, and he we never find out, do we, what's happened, but he's gone to prison and not so Woody had done something. Yeah, I think he took he's taken the full feeling. So Woody feels like he owes him something, but he starts telling the story and he immediately starts being racist, and everyone looks at Milky because he's black, and you can tell that's not that's not what they're about. Yeah, the they're a tight-knit, close group of friends, and they're all mortified, and you can see Milky's face, he's like, Oh fuck, and no one knows what to do. And it the film just takes because it's been quite nice up to this point. It's like about Sean finding this guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you roofing me? It's fine, you've been over now, it's great, and now all of a sudden you're like, it does.

SPEAKER_03 12:52

So what what it what it does, a little bit like I mean, uh a room for Romeo Brass does it, and Dead Man's Shoes does it pretty much all the way through. It goes from almost like you know, just like lighthearted, it's it's just at the beginning of it, it's just like a coming of age story sort of thing, and then it just he's so good at making you as the the the viewer feel really, really uncomfortable and like just on the edge of your seat, and you you you don't want to watch, but you you have to watch because it's it's Stephen Graham is phenomenal in this as well. Bearing in mind that was the first thing I'd seen him in since uh Snatch. Yeah, when he was like, was it Tommy? Is it yeah? And obviously he had like the curly hair and he was a bit of a I did I d assumed he was a cockney because he's a cockney in in Snatch, and then he's there in like proper like Nat sort of you know his own sort of scouse accent, but he's so fucking good in his own.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Yeah, no, sort of think of him as an actor who's kind of got better over his career, but it's not true.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

He's just got he's always been good, yeah. He's always been good.

SPEAKER_03 13:46

He's he's found a platform for his ridiculous talent. Unbelievable, yeah. Incredible. Yeah, absolutely. What he does what he does do in that scene is is so combo, it gives a little flicker of he's not all bad because at first you're like, oh that this guy's a wrong, and then he's like throwing around like racial slurs and stuff, and then he realizes he's like and he's got like sorry, Milky Made.

SPEAKER_04 14:07

He doesn't really know what he's about.

SPEAKER_03 14:08

Yeah, and then he's shot and then he kind of go and then he sort of like reverse. He's like, Oh, you know, this brown gentleman like came in and he was well the film he shows us is it's absolutely pathetic.

SPEAKER_04 14:18

Yeah, it just easily led. He's probably you know, you've seen all of the man's fish shit, like he's got no male role model, yeah, just deeply insecure, it's just like he's a fucking loser, basically. Yeah, um but dangerous, but he's a a psychopath, like he's a fucking loser. So the next day they're in the cafe that they hang out with, and Combo comes in again, he says, Would yeah, really I need to talk to you. And they're like, Oh, what's this gonna be all about? Um and then they basically have to go back to um Combo's apartment for uh just a hangout or whatever, and he turns the situation around by saying, Um to Woody, you're a fucking snake. I'm not gonna try and do that so you're a snake. You didn't I said that fucking awful thing, and you didn't stand up for your mate, and you're like, no, no, you're the piece of shit. Yeah, you're the one. And he just manipulates this the way he does, and he just sort of turns it around.

SPEAKER_03 15:11

He's he's he's very he's like he's very charismatic still, even though he's uh a wrong and violent and everything like that. He you can see how people would be like in awe of him.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

But they don't have uh they don't have many ways.

SPEAKER_03 15:24

No, there's no moral sort of guidance or or stability in any of their lives. Yeah, exactly. So but that whole movement really, all those what the Britain, the National Fund that they they call it, they're all just praying praying on ne'er do wells who like look are looking for something to you know unite theming.

SPEAKER_04 15:43

Yeah. So while he's doing this thing about you're a snake, blah blah blah, he then gets into this fear about them coming over here, taking our jobs, all this bullshit that he's heard, and he's uses the fault of his war, you know, our lads going over there and giving them nice for this phony war. And then Sean's like, you see him getting a noise because he's lost his father in this conflict, and eventually he snaps, and he's the one who actually's uh the only one who stands up to combo and actually starts like taking swings at him. He's massively respects him for it.

SPEAKER_03 16:12

You can imagine like the direction of that is like to to Thomas Hergan, he's just obviously Stephen Groves, he's not a big fella, but he's an intimidating person. He's like, like, actually go for him, try and knock his head off because he's swinging proper punches and and like you know, combo's having to like deflect them, but he's like, you know, what what's what's the matter, little fella, and all of that, you know. And then he he immediately, once he finds out, he goes, he goes, Oh, my dad died in the Falklands, and then he's like, Oh, he apologises, so squats down, and then immediately changes and becomes like you know, like it's comforting him and everything, and and immediately within 20 seconds uses that to sort of turn around and all.

SPEAKER_04 16:49

Puts him up on a pedestal, yeah. Um so this is the direction of travel, and he basically at this point says, You either, you know, you're either with me or you against me. Who's who's joining us? We're gonna go and meet his fella.

SPEAKER_03 17:02

Um, would Woody Yeah Woody gets up and and goes off, and so do a few of the others. Milky's one of them as well, but it just divides the the group immediately.

SPEAKER_04 17:14

What's the one who stays? Is it um PewKie or something?

SPEAKER_03 17:16

Pew Key, yeah, that's like Jack O'Connell. The actor. I think. He's he's been in quite a few things.

SPEAKER_02 17:24

Is that the SAS guy? Yeah, he's good. I like him. He was in that, he was in uh the Amy Winehouse movie, he was in a few of the I like him as an actor, he's really good.

SPEAKER_03 17:35

I mean, we'll probably talk about it more towards the end, but this is that's another like debut and the young actor that has gone on to pretty big things.

SPEAKER_04 17:45

Lol, all the girls basically fuck off. Um Woody, Milke, um but gadget, Pyuke, Sean, um they stay with Banjo and Combo. Yeah. And he he takes them off to this National Front of basically meet to hear this guy just spout out all his fucking racist about these people taking the jobs.

SPEAKER_03 18:10

And it is it's Frank Harper's the actor, he's another like Shane Meadows collaborator who's in a room for Romeo Brass. He's he's the one whose dog in uh not stock. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Oh yes, the b he's he's in footmore factory as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:24

And again, you know, you can s like you know, because he doesn't he's not all like he hasn't got a shaved head, he's wearing a suit and he's got like his tears growing glasses, it turns up in a jag and everything. He seems like a presenting more well-to-do, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:37

The the propaganda and everything, and and all these people in that uh he gets them all to sign up, you know, and they're all well into their stand up and they're applauding there like loving his fucking bullshit. Um and then they start doing all the graffiti. See the way they start National Front.

SPEAKER_03 18:51

Yeah. N N-A-S-H-N-I-L N-I-L as Gadget National.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

Right. These are not educated people.

SPEAKER_04 19:00

No, they're easily led, I would say. Yeah. But even on the way back from that, Pughie is like, he's saying to Gadget. You really into all this? Like he has he has straight away I had second thoughts about it as well.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

It's a powerfully simple idea though, isn't it, to hate the foreigner. But he was the one.

SPEAKER_03 19:16

But the wavy the way this guy's the the way this guy sort of pictures it, he sort of starts off softly. He's like, he's going, if people want to come to this country and contribute and and you know, and integrate and everything like that, then then brilliant, you know, it's a great country and we should welcome them and everything.

SPEAKER_04 19:30

But he doesn't even believe I don't think.

SPEAKER_03 19:31

No, I don't think so, but it's it's a way of softly rather than just coming because he's obviously got to win these people over, so he sort of almost comes in sort of gently, and people go, Oh yeah, because like I believe everything, although I know that that family down the road and they're all right, but it's that's his that's his way of saying it's okay to like them, yeah, but but anyone else, anyone who's not contributing or anything like that, you we want to like stand up to them with violence and and you know aggression, so yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:57

It gives um combo gives Sean a gift of uh St George's Cross.

SPEAKER_03 20:04

Doesn't he? No, um uh he's he's taken it from that because he's like, Oh, I've got a surprise for you, Combo. No, see Combo gives it to Sean, he's I've got you something it's in the uh No, because he as Combo's driving, so oh look like Sean's got it, and no, Sean Sean gets it out the back and goes, Oh, don't look, don't look, like as he's getting it out. Alright. So they basically nicked it from this national front meeting so that he can impress combo.

SPEAKER_04 20:27

We get a little montage of them walking down the street. Gotta have a man. He's even sort of training Sean about how to walk and how to say, like, fuck off you, you know, then dropping racial slow, it's not what we say, obviously. Um and then this he's had he's had previous in this corner shop before, but before he was just like reading comics, not paying for them, and the shopkeepers getting a bit pissed off with him, and just you know, kid stuff. But now he he's just walks back in in his full skinner gear and he says, I'll have a hundred fags, you know, ten beers, two pots of wine, a bottle of whiskey. And the guy's like, Well, you're not having that. Twelve and it's like, get me the fucking drinks, and he's he's just going to all the stuff and he's just practicing what I'm down, he says it. So the shopkeeper goes and tries to throw him out, and at that point Combo comes in with the machete again, and they just rob the guy in, you know, yeah in broad daylight and just threaten him with, you know, like horrendous violence and exilient thing. Um and then they go well, he sees um he ends up seeing well, he's he's seen him look at law a few times.

SPEAKER_03 21:32

Well th I think just before that they turn up at Mel's birthday par at Smell's birthday party, and again it's it's like it divides the room all the time. No, that that was that was the that was the original one. That was when he was all that was when he spat on the floor and drew the line. But you know, he's he said like you you ain't you consider yourself English or Jamaican and he says English after a long pause because I think he he knows what the right what the what the answer should be. Yeah, and then they they they There's the birthday party thing, and again it divides the room. But I noticed like um a couple because again, a couple of the girls, so there's Lol and her two uh two sisters, I think Trev and Kelly, and the two of the uh two of the younger girls stay again because they're a little bit more sort of impressionable and they're kind of like a little bit like in awe of combo and how sort of charismatic he is and everything. But then yeah, the next next scene it cuts to um Combo just kind of like waiting.

SPEAKER_04 22:24

It's watching Lol outside the cafe and he's been looking at her a few times, um, and eventually he collars her as she's going to work. Um, says, Can't I just need two minutes, just need two minutes. I saw I ain't got fucking two minutes, but eventually she uh you know, just stay and he presents her with this box that he's made for while he's been inside. And they've had a they've had a night that didn't pass before he went to prison. Obviously, that was the best night of my life, you know. I fucking love you. It's like it was awful. I was 16, I didn't want to fucking do it. She said I was like smashed off my head. There's no there's nothing between us like that.

SPEAKER_03 22:58

Because she's Woody's girlfriend, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:01

And um he's he's fucking devastated. And um when she gets out of the car, this bit of acting is like fucking 10 out of 10. Are you like properly trying not to cry and sobbing like when he loses and you see the guy's just a fucking weak not weak, isn't, but he's just as vulnerable and just as fucking like the same.

SPEAKER_03 23:21

Yeah, I mean he's laid himself bare for this girl and she's just hardly protecting.

SPEAKER_04 23:29

Yeah. Um so he's absolutely devastated, and that's gonna lead to some fucking like hideous consequences for other people.

SPEAKER_03 23:36

Yeah. Yeah, so uh then again, so the next scene um combo, then he's waiting for just waiting for Milky, he's walking past with a girlfriend. Yeah, Milky loves a loves of Jay. Um so to console himself, and and and this is it, yeah, like I I never really understood whether this is all completely set up. I think there's it's nods to that because Banjo seems to be on board when when things sort of play out later on. But so anyway, he kind of talks he he talks Milky into like getting an ounce and even says, like, listen, get an ounce, I'll give you half. Uh and then he invites him round, so there's this um that fucking weird Meggie, like there's like an older guy who isn't even dressed like a skidder anyway, he just seems to hang around with him. But he's like sat in the corner, there's banjos, like combos by pal from prison. Gadgets completely spangled. Gadget gadgets like whiteying everywhere and then Milky and Combo. And then you you almost see because they're putting on records and they're smoking joints, and then they're like combo and Milky are bonding, and it seems completely genuine. They're talking about, you know, and and combo's even like praising Milky. He's like, look, you know, like the stuff you wear, the music you listen to. That's that's like that's the roots that I got that were introduced to me at the beginning of this whole kind of movement, and that's that's what this is about. And you're you're one of the you like the true like originals, and and he's he's giving him a load of praise. And Milky's like, see, he's completely relaxed and into the you know, into the vibe and everything, and and his guard is is is completely down. So he then starts talking about his family and all his his uncles that came and his parents and his uncles that came over from Jamaica, how he's got like seven or eight uncle b uh uncles and aunties, 20 odd cousins, how you know all the food that they have at Christmas, and that's all no matter what, there was always food on the table and everything. And you don't know Combo's backstory, but you can just see him all of a sudden it's it again, a brilliant acting, because all he's doing is it is just on his face. You can just see him sort of like turning and and becoming more and more like bitter and and angry with every word that that Milky's saying, because he's jealous, he's like and he starts saying, I you had everything, didn't you? Like you had it, you had it all. You know, like you know, you're lucky, aren't you? Yeah, what a perfect life you've got and stuff, and starts becoming a bit tense, and he sort of like he gets up and then like turns around and stands over him and calls him the N-word, like to challenge him and to insult him, but challenge him to see what he's gonna do about it, and and Milky just sort of smiles back at him because you can see Milky kind of resigns to the fact that's like I thought actually you were being genuine there and we we could actually like get on. Um and because he smiles at him it rolls it even more, and then Combo just absolutely batters him, like properly fills him in. I thought I think I mentioned he went in he was in a coma or something.

SPEAKER_04 26:27

Sean has to watch it.

SPEAKER_03 26:28

But and and Sean has to watch it, but then this is where that banjo is like Combo's mate, grabs Sean and just pins him down so that he can't do anything about it. Like Maggie, who's an old, silly old twat, and he's absolutely spangled anyway. Like uh Gadget's already gone home with m with smell, I think. So yeah, they have to watch it all unfold. Um Maggie goes, Banjo like takes him outside or whatever, Sean's been chucked outside. And then immediately Combo kind of like turns round, he's he's shouting at uh Milky whilst he's unconscious, like lying on the floor. And then you you see him, he he just like stops and looks, and obviously he's he starts to collect his sort of looks at what he's done and he starts like crying and going, Oh my god, what have I done? What have I done? I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, and he he's like and he goes back outside where like Sean's sort of carrying in a cupboard, I think, and he's like going, like, help me. And and what they do a few times here is whenever there's like serious sort of like tension and really uncomfortable watching, they sort of like play you can hear the dialogue a bit, but they play kind of like foreboding like sort of music over the top of it just to I don't know whether it's to cut through the tension a bit or or or heighten it. I don't I really don't know, but it's it's yeah, it's it's like um you can't take your eyes off how you know striking it all is. Okay. It's uh yeah. It's a brutal, horrible scene. Um it's it's basically pretty much like right towards the end of the film because you then see Sean they they Sean and and uh Combo take Milky to hospital. Yeah. Um you then see Sean sort of at home in his room and he's he's you know, he's he's questioning everything, and Mum comes in and she tells him, Oh look, mil you know, they say Milky's gonna be okay and so on. And then you just see uh Sean just walking along some, you know, some like moors or whatever, and then go and grab his St George's flag and throw it in the sea. Um that's pretty much that's it really, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 28:26

Yeah, so that version of England. It's the cauche kind of racist national film version that throws it away. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

Um when we're talking about this is England, it's uh pretty depressing, but when there may be some sort of hopefulness, I I think uh so so has anyone seen any of the series that follow this?

SPEAKER_03 28:46

No. Honestly, I I c I can't tell you how good they are, and and what you get, so it's it's all the same characters, it's all a few years on, it continues the stories, it just builds the the world of a bit bigger. All the same. So so then the so this was set in 83, there's there's this is England, 86, 88, and 90, and they're all like mini-series of three or four episodes, and it's just starts sort of building out like the individual characters. Well, it's it's all the same characters, and it they're they're unbelievable. And and what what they do, and and I and I obviously watch this again knowing what the you know, like what the sort of the end game is for all of the of the characters and so on. And Combo is is one of those characters that a little bit I don't know, like in a very different way, a little bit like like Walter White or whatever, it's kind of like you you hate him for a load of stuff that he's done and you and you know he's the bad guy and you shouldn't be rooting for them, but then there's all these he has these massive like redemptive arcs that sort of you know keep or a pl uh like a storyline within the whole sort of series. All I'll say I won't say anymore, just watch them because they are. I'm gonna go back and watch them all again after after watching this because it's so so good.

SPEAKER_04 30:01

Yeah, it's right Thomas Turgo's Stephen Graham is like unbelievable, yeah, unbelievable performances. Yeah. Like obviously as a 12-year-old we say he's 13, but I think he's 13, yeah. Yeah. Incredible, but Stephen Graham is just like not out of the party, he's so fucking good.

SPEAKER_03 30:19

Yeah. I'd really like um Shane Meadow's brilliant filmmates. Yeah, this is this and this this launch, because it was it was bigger, like you could, you know, obviously he'd had um Romeo Brass and Dead Man's Shoes before that, and this was like the biggest budget thing that he'd done, and I think it really took off and and it and it launched so many careers, like Lol is it, Vicky McClure, like she's in been in loads of stuff, Joe Gilgan's been in loads of stuff, Troy McClure, that like Jack O'Connell. There's there's uh l tons of them. Even like the the the sister, even the the sort of like the minor characters in in this, they get bigger in in the the mini-series that follow, and then they go on to have like massive careers.

SPEAKER_00 30:59

It's a bit depressing how like it's talking about what happened in 80. But it's just you know, you're looking at the lens of when it was made in 2006, it was still the same, and you look at it now in 2026, and it's still the fucking racist rhetoric has kind of changed its language a little bit, but it's still the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

Yeah, exactly right. I was thinking that as I was watching it going like this, this is mad because it's it's it's meant to be like however many fucking years ago that was. I can't wake it up. Yeah. And yeah, we're we're still there in in you know the same place. And it goes it it just goes in cycles, yeah. And it'll always be, you know, those those political sort of undercurrents, but the yeah, that this is I I I don't know if it I can't tell you whether it's better than Dead Man's Shoes or not. I'm not sure. Dead Man's shoes is a ten out of ten. They are very different, but you know, this is at least a nine out of ten for me. It's it's outstanding performances, everything.

SPEAKER_04 31:53

Would you say it was a strong recommend?

SPEAKER_03 31:56

Yes. Strong.