Midweek Mention... Michael Clayton

This week on Bad Dads Film Review, Sidey, Dan and Cris review Tony Gilroy’s Michael Clayton, starring George Clooney, Tom Wilkinson, Tilda Swinton and Sydney Pollack. It is a legal thriller without grandstanding courtroom speeches, a corporate conspiracy movie without cartoon villains, and a George Clooney film where the star power is deliberately worn down into exhaustion, debt and moral compromise.

Sidey has loved this one for years, Cris remembers liking it, and Dan arrives as a Michael Clayton virgin after realising the “Michael” film in his head was actually Michael Collins. The dads begin with the film’s strange, non-linear opening: Arthur Edens spiralling through a voiceover, Michael being dragged away from a backroom poker game to clean up a rich client’s hit-and-run, and the early reminder that Clayton may have a fixer’s reputation but he is not a miracle worker. He can tell a man to face the music; he cannot make the consequences vanish.

The review digs into Clayton as a man trapped by other people’s mess. He is the firm’s problem-solver, not a partner. He has an ex-DA past, a failed restaurant business, a brother whose addictions helped put him in debt, and an $80,000 hole that makes him useful to Sydney Pollack’s Marty Bach. Clooney plays him as tired rather than cool: still sharp, still well-dressed, but visibly sick of being sent into the night to mop up disasters for people richer and worse than him.

At the centre of the film is Arthur Edens, played brilliantly by Tom Wilkinson. Arthur’s breakdown during the U-North deposition is spectacular and humiliating, but the dads keep coming back to the idea that his madness is tangled up with moral clarity. He has spent years defending a company whose weed killer has damaged and killed people, and once he finds the smoking-gun memo proving U-North knew the truth, he can no longer keep doing the job. His obsession with Anna, one of the plaintiffs, and with the fantasy book Realm and Conquest gives the film its odd spiritual thread, leading eventually to the horses on the hill that save Michael’s life.

Tilda Swinton’s Karen Crowder becomes the face of corporate panic. The dads talk about her sweaty armpits, her rehearsed speeches, her desperation to satisfy U-North’s board and her terrible decision to hire surveillance operatives who turn into assassins. Arthur’s murder is one of the episode’s key talking points because it is so coldly procedural: no big struggle, no dramatic villain speech, just sedation, injection, staged suicide and the awful efficiency of people doing a job.

As Michael follows the clues Arthur left behind, the film becomes a study in compromised people trying to survive a rotten system. He finds the marked book, learns about the memo, realises Arthur had thousands of copies printed, and starts to suspect that the suicide story is nonsense. Yet when Marty offers him the money he needs, Michael takes it. That is part of what makes the film work for the dads: he is not pure. He sells Arthur out for $80,000 before finding his way back to something like decency.

The finale is pure thriller satisfaction. After the bomb in Clayton’s car fails because he has walked up the hill to look at the horses from his son’s book, he confronts Karen at the U-North settlement meeting. She thinks he is dead, then thinks he can be bought. Michael pushes her into saying enough, reveals he is wearing a wire, and walks away as her world collapses behind him. The final taxi ride, with Clooney silently processing everything as the credits roll over his face, gets praised as a perfect ending.

Verdicts are emphatic. Sidey gives Michael Clayton the strongest possible recommend and says he could watch it again immediately. Dan calls it one of the best midweek films the podcast has done this year and wants more undiscovered films like it. Cris loves that the legal world is not glamorised: it is late-night rooms full of lawyers billing hours, protecting corporations and turning human cost into numbers. The dads praise the whole cast, especially Clooney’s pared-back performance, Wilkinson’s haunted intensity, Swinton’s Oscar-winning panic and Pollack’s completely believable law-firm authority.

In short: a brilliant grown-up thriller about corporate greed, moral exhaustion, legal compromise and the terrifying power of a memo everyone wants buried.

We love to hear from our listeners! By which I mean we tolerate it. If it hasn't been completely destroyed yet you can usually find us on twitter @dads_film, on Facebook Bad Dads Film Review, on email at baddadsjsy@gmail.com or on our website baddadsfilm.com.
 
Until next time, we remain...
 
Bad Dads

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SPEAKER_01 0:12

Probably gonna sneeze.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Prove it.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Okay, it's there in the nostrils. Do you know when it's just there? Do you get that feeling? You know it's there. And now now you might have sighted me out a bit because you you threw down the gauntlet of the sneeze gauntlet.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

The gauntlet? I don't think anyone sneezes in this film that we're about to talk about. I don't know. That's a how we make it. What an answer to this film. This is a film I have mulled over Wild for quite a long time.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

I thought I'd seen this. Someone else didn't Chris. When you mentioned the name, I thought, oh, I've seen this. But there it was Michael Collins. Yeah, you've done all the Michaels. I've done a different kind of combination. Michael Jackson biophys. Yeah, you've done all these different Michaels and different named people of, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

But never Michael Clayton.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Christian surname, but never Michael Clayton. This is it. We used to play football with a guy called Div Clayton. Div D.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Well, we used to play football with a guy called Clayton Romrell. So Clayton's brother. Yeah. Oh, okay. So Big Clay, so Big Clay, Slay. Slaver Pay. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

But this isn't any of those people. This is 2007, directed by Tony Gilroy, produced by Steven Soderbergh. It's quite a weighted Steven Soderbergh themed week. Yeah. And it's starring George Clooney. I don't know. It might be, because Steven Soderberg and George Clooney did have, in fact, it probably is, they had the two of them had a production comedy called Section Eight Pictures or whatever it was. Right, okay. Section eight being the they're both executive producers in this one. Yeah, so it will be a section eight then. So Section 8 is a when you're discharging the army for going mad. Oh really? It's what Corporal Klingo was always trying to get in MASH. I like it. He was trying to get section eight. Section eight. So this is Michael Clayton and Cards on the Table Out of the Gate. I fucking love this film. Have you seen it before now? Multiple times.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

I've seen it before as well, and I remember I've only seen it once, and I remember I really liked it.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

This is why I didn't nominate it before, so I didn't want it to be just me like spaffing over a film that I really like.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

So I this I was a Michael Clayton virgin. Okay, nice. This is the first time I'd seen it.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

It starts off with a bit of kind of uh voiceover of Tom Wilkinson's lawyer character, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 2:33

Yeah. Which is a bit confusing initially because it doesn't really you don't really understand where this is coming from. It's quite a it's almost like a metaphor.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

There's a lot of metaphor in the It starts off in a non-linear sense. Because if we get Tom Wilkinson, he's it turns out what he is is one of the best litigators in this law firm. He's Arthur Eden's, but he's fucking lost his mind. Arthur, yeah, that's the thing. Arthur. He's he's a s he's he's clearly got some sort of psychiatric had some sort of psychiatric episode. However, he's right. He's he's almost certainly correct in the sense that they have been defending defending this company called Ukraine. But he has come to learn that in the sort of Erin Brockovich sense There's also a Stephen Soderbergh movie. Yeah. Yeah. That he's basically defending the indefensible morally.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Well, I d I'm not sure that he he ever didn't know that.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Because he But he's he can't do it anymore.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

But some It's caused him to have a breakdown. He's just reflected on it enough to realise life's too short to and he's met some of the people.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

He's become infatuated with this girl Anna, but but then we meet Michael Clayton, who is George Clooney, and he's he's been called out to go and play poker. So we can see he's a gambler, yeah. He likes to gamble. He's never particularly happy in the film. He's gambling, he just gets fucking annoyed with the chat and the bullshit at the table. This is not a casino, this is a Chinese uh back room game, but for fucking big money.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Yeah, like keys and wallets and an ID or whatever are left.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

And the guy's saying, I know you, this guy saying I know you, and he you didn't get a restaurant, oh no, and he's like, he doesn't want to know. And then he gets he can see his phone because there's no there's no phones at the table, he can see his phone in in the little basket thing ringing away. And he kicks the game into touch, and then he picks up his phone and he's got a call from someone at the law firm, and he is the kind of law firm fixer, and he's told to go to this place, and when he gets there, it's a wealthy client of the law firm who's fucking mowed something down on a hit and run. Yeah, panicked, called the law firm, and they said, Listen, we're sending Michael out, he'll source it. He's like a Winston Wolf. He's yes, exactly. Well, that's the kind of thing that the client has been promised. Yeah, he's you know, this guy's a miracle worker, and when he gets there, he's like, Right, okay, Cluny's like, Well, you've done that, you know, you have done that. We know some people up here, we can connect you with some good lawyers, you need to get on top of this straight away, and you need to do blah. And the guy's basically expecting someone to come up and sweep this under the carpet, and and he's like, No, no, you've been misinformed. Like, I don't pay a retainer every week for you just to come up and tell me this shit. I was told miracle worker, and he's like, Well, I'm sorry. He's misspoke. You need to there's this there's no play here. Like, you've hit someone, you just need to do the best thing you can to minimize what's gonna come next. And so we see that he's he's a serious guy and he's connected, but he's not got fucking superpowers. Like he's still operating in.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

I recommend a local lawyer, I can recommend you what to do, but I'm um but we we also know because this is basically the end of the film as well, that on another day in time he's probably deserved that miracle worker reputation, and that's why he's got the job that he has, that's why people depend on him at different times. But he, like Arthur, had become by this point a little bit jaded by his awful gambler.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Yeah, we learn some more about his life and what he's been doing and why he's where he is within the firm. He's not a partner, he's not the ones calling the shots, he's still getting ushered around to do these sort of shitty jobs. So he deals with this guy and sort of tells him to stop in a prick, and you fucking run someone over your prick, basically. You're gonna have to face the music in some way, shape, or form. Gets in his car, drives off. The satnab is not working. It kind of just flashes or glitches. It's it's glitching out, and then he's just going through the countryside. It's very nice countryside. It's it's either gone through the night now, getting to dusk, it's getting to the early morning, isn't it? Yeah. And he just happens to glance around and he sees some ponies at the top of a which have you seen the reference with the ponies.

SPEAKER_02 6:57

You know why it stops, right? We we do in a little while. A little while because the ponies, exactly that image are in the book. There's the horses on a on a in the book that his son speaks to him and to Arthur. Arthur case gets obsessed by the book is is quite important. I can't remember the name of the book, but it's quite important in the whole plot because he kind of looks and he looks again, he's like, oh, three horses on a hill. It's exactly you you don't know any of this. This goes it's called Realm and Conquest, the book. Realm and conquest. So he stops the car, leaves the car in the in the road, and he just goes up to kind of just stare at these.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

And I said to my missus, because she was watching, I said, Oh, watch the car, because it's just over his shoulder, and all of a sudden, boom, the car goes up. Yeah. Like it's a Well, we don't know, but a car explodes.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

A car explodes, and he's kind of then just running. Well he knows he knows because we don't, but then it goes right back into four days later or something. Four days earlier.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Sorry, earlier, yeah. And it's the there's been a deposition and this is where Arthur's completely lost it. He's stripped naked in this deposition. So he's representing the firm. They are millions and millions of fees being paid to this law firm. This is serious. They've been defending this for years. This is a big class out of the world. Six years.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

What are they called? West Up or Unor. UNOS.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

Unor.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

West Up. I was saying.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

Tilda Swinton's character, she's the kind of in-house counsel trying to drive this forward.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

In lieu of Arthur not doing his job, she has now been given the top job, isn't she? Like Arthur was the lead counsel.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Well, he's the lead counsel for the law firm, but she is she is UNorth's in-house leader.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

She's the counsel for UNorth or the company that they're representing.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

So she's feeling she's feeling the pressure. And then we see we're getting a little bit of video of Arthur, and he's gone completely like A Well, he's you see him stripping naked, it's Tom Wilkinson doing his brilliant in this. And the rest of the people in the room are like, what the fuck's going on? And they're like horrified watching this VT of him in this deposition just going completely bananas, and like, this is the main guy who's defending us against I think it's some sort of pesticide or something like that. It's a weed killer, yeah. Yeah, that they bring out and it's killing people.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

Yeah. And he's he tries to speak to Anna, who is one of the plaintiffs, and apparently her parents died because of this uh weed this pesticide, and they send Michael to deal with Arthur because they're in Pittsburgh or Milwaukee, something like that.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

And he's had an episode before. Yeah, he said eight years ago, yeah. And Michael was able to help him then and get him back onto the straight and narrow. And everybody in the firm waxes lyrical about Arthur's abilities in the courtroom. He's second to none as a litigator. If they're asking, you know, who would be the best at this, Arthur would be the best at this. Best at this, well, Arthur again would be the man you asked. So when they're looking for people to sort out the problems, it's this guy, and they need Michael Clayton Clooney to go and put him back on the straight and narrow. So he goes to meet him from the deposition. Well, to take him out of jail first. Get him out of jail, yeah. Meet him from like he's been arrested because he had his cock out in a car parking running off. He's totally lost the plot at this stage, and it's it's snowing outside, it's freezing, you know.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Basically, it's damage limitation because they've got to keep the client happy. So he gets the team and he's like, right, this is how we sell it, he's off his meds, you know, it's just uh a momentary thing. It's an episode, it's just an episode. We're gonna get back a mile, we do this, and this is how we do it, and we blah. And he ends up speaking with Tilda Swinton's character, and they they're like, Who the fuck is this guy? You know, we haven't seen him, and they start doing some digging, they're like, He's well, you know, he's this, he's assistant DA, he's done this, he's done that, he's been at this firm for like another dozen years. Why is he not a partner? Like, he's just weird. And so then we just see in parallel there's like an auction going on where all of the stuff of Clooney, so Clooney's gone into partnership with his brother as trying to get a way out. It's obviously not like his bag, really, this life. So they've tried to do something. He likes to gamble, he's taking a punt with his brother, who's got substance abuse issues, gambling problem, and I think he's job-I think he's job the trifecta. And and their their restaurant business is. I think he says at one point they're paying nine grand a month just on rent. He's he's they said, Oh, you know, we've just sold the fridge. He's like, I fucking paid like four grand. Four grand, we're selling it for 1500. You know, so he goes in to see because who it's who plays the partner in the law firm? It's it's it's it's an absolute dude. Sydney Pollock plays Marty. Yeah, and he's he says, Marty, I need a loan, I need 80 grand just to get out of the hole. So they they basically own him. So they when they've got a problem, yo Clooney will solve it.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Yeah. And he he's he's doing it his best, but as he starts to speak to Arthur, and Arthur goes on the run, he gets him to a hotel after picking him up from the police station, Arthur goes on the run because he is having these kind of episodes still, he is off the meds, he has got a book that he's obviously friends with George Clooney's family and his son, because at one point he's on the phone to his son, and his son has this book, and you see the the relationship George Clooney and his son, and it's of a stressed-out dad who doesn't have a lot of time to spend with his son and he's driving to school, and he doesn't know a bad dad. But he's not a bad dad.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

But he's just not as present as he would like to be a daddy. Exactly. Because he does give him a pep talk when when the son talks about Arthur, he says, Listen, no, it's the brother when it's he says, Listen, on your you know, on your on his best day, you know, you still are you're still better than him that you can edit.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

Yeah, because kids sometimes worry about that, don't they? They think, is it in the family? Am I going to be a fuck up? Because he's a fuck up. No, look, you're not. You're way better than him. And he does care about him and he does love him, but he's not present. He's got and w we know, having seen the story, how much he's got going on, how many plates he's spinning and things. You still like to think that you'd be doing better and you'd be more present, but we've all been there where you know you've been stressed and you know you're driving along and your mind's on something else, and the kids talking about a book that you should read, which is this book that Arthur's got, the one that you've referred to earlier. Roman conquest or something like that. Uh when a little while later, Arthur has been killed. Oh, it's a massive jump.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

So we see Karen. Karen is we've seen how under pressure she is because we've seen her in a cubicle and she's kind of like looking at her armpits, there's a massive armpits like sweat. And she's really feeling the pressure of just defending this company. But they fucking know.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

Well, look, the idea is when when Clayton goes to get Arthur he they can't find his briefcase. Meanwhile, we see that Tilda Swinton's character, Karen, she's got the briefcase. Yeah, and in the briefcase, in Arthur's briefcase, after he does the runner, there's there's a memo, internal memo that she's a smoking gun and tells you that is the proof that the company knew that that weed killer, the pesticide, is toxic. Yeah. It creates skin damage, tissue damage, all that stuff. And even better, it's signed by Don Howard or whatever, who is the CEO of UNorth, who is her mentor and the person that put her in charge. Right, imagine signing that.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Fucking hell. So it's too expensive to fix, but it's not gonna be as expensive as going completely fucking bust when this gets out. So they go to quite extreme measures to hire two, let's say in the vocabulary surveillance guys to go after Arthur and find out what's going on. XCIA black ops. So they they do surveil him for a while and then they realise he's got this memo, he's gone rogue, and they like they also know Arthur knows that they're recording him at one point.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Well, that's why because he starts reading out the memo into a saying you're fucked, basically.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

Like, look, look this, and then they say, Oh, we've got are we authorized to take this further because they're quite careful with what they say, and she's like Okay. Okay. Which means okay proceed, or is that okay understand? This is a fucking hit. So and it's really sort of stark the way they show it on the screen. It's very procedural. Like he walks into the apartment, he's just grabbed at the door, little kind of no noise, just dragged. I think injected straight away so he's out. In between the toes. They do him first so he's he's sedated. Right, yeah. Then they when he's laying down, just sock off, inject through between the toe. No, it's under the it's under the toe. Anyway, so there's no mark, there's no puncture mark, sock back on, he twitches, dead, put in there, pills out, I think turn it to the tap on. Turn the tap on the top. Turn the tap on, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's obvious. Fingers are on the suicide, the pulse. There's literally no like drama about it, other than you're watching someone be executed. There's no there's no like, oh, is he gonna get you know, it's very matter of fact. Yeah. It's like cleaning windows, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Yeah. And you're like, fuck, they just killed and out in five minutes. I mean, it's almost real time that stuff, isn't it? That we we see it in and he is dead. So Karen's just authorised a hit. This is our corporate budget and homicide. And when Michael Clayton gets that news, and indeed the the law office gets it.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

Because the law, yeah, the the law firm, but the that's what Marty says. He's like, I'm conflicted about this because we dodged a bullet here. Yeah. He was like the the partners, they're kind of buzzing, really, because the guy's dead, so there's no more problems.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

Well he he was off off the rails, he was he was getting into bed with the you know the the defendant rather than the the the law firm that he should be defending, he's going in with the other side and he's siding with them. So they're like him having a heart attack.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

And also before before he dies, before they they kill him, that's a great moment when Michael Clayton finds him in the street and he's got about 12 baguettes in a bag. Still walk. And he's like, still one of your but he he turns from ditzy lunatic that I'm trying to help you, Arthur, I'm trying to help you, just come and we'll do the right thing. And he's like, he he turns straight into lawyer mode, so he's still lucid, he knows what he's doing. He's like, listen, Michael, if if you wanted me to s if you want to sort this out with me, you should have kept me on Milwaukee where it is under the law, but ta-da, he gives him all this thing about if I've done something illegal, he's only there. Now I'm in New York City. If you want to come at me, you come at me and go.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Am I a danger to myself? Am I a danger to others? Do you think you got the horses for that? And he's like, he knows that he can't take him on because he's already admitted previously the best person for this kind of case is that guy, is him. Yeah, so he's gone now.

SPEAKER_02 18:08

And now they're at the thing in the bar, and then the next day, I can't remember how does he call Anna. She was spoken she was she turns up at the airport. No, but because he is he watching something or because he calls the sister, but I can't remember how that in that night he gets drunk, and then I think he just decides to call the sister. Who does? Michael Clayton. He calls the sister and she's like, What kind of people are you?

SPEAKER_00 18:33

No, because Anna has flown. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He'd arrange and she phones and he's he's in the apartment, isn't he? He's in or does he just get the missed call? No, because he he breaks into the crime scene because he doesn't believe the suicide. And that's where he finds out about the memo and he also picks up. She must just phone the law firm. The the mum the the sister must just phone the law firm to fucking berate them or however wherever it turns out. Right, yeah, yeah. And so uh Arthur had arranged for her to fly over, and that's why they're like, Well, this is definitely bullshit because he wouldn't have arranged for her to come over and then meet her and then kill himself, like it's bollocks. So that's when I think Clooney goes to the apartment. And he goes to meet her as well. He chats together.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

Also the time when he's broken into the apartment, he just he discovers the book, The Realms and He's got the the page marks with and it has the the picture of it's highlighted text and it's got a picture of horses on a hill, which later we've already seen. We've already seen at the beginning where he's parked his car, he's gone up to see these horses on a hill, obviously thinking that's that was in that book. He's gone to get a closer look, and it's ended up saving his life because the car was blown up while he's up on the hill looking at his horses.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

And then he goes to the laundrette where that's it, did the laundrette to the printing thing, but that's what he found in the book, no?

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Because it's the same guys who have killed Arthur who've put a bomb in his car, and there was that scene where they've just gotten out in time, and we realise he's coming in from that gambling scene right at the beginning of the film.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Arthur's taking that memo though, but he's taken it to the printing company. And he's just gonna start handing them out, giving to everybody. He's he's let's say he's not acting in his client's best interest at me.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

He's certainly not, but he's he's in like his own mind acting.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

But this is the thing, because we do see that when uh Clooney goes to the girl at the airport in her room, the surveillance guys are there. Yeah. And they're like, Well, this is interesting. And then he breaks into the apartment and they're like, What are we doing now? And then his brother-in-law uh takes him out of the the jail cell because he's a police officer and he's to pull some strings and whatever. Because he's been busted in breaking into the apartment. Breaking into the apartment with the seal on, and he had a separate seal to cover it up. But then he's like, Who called 911? I was quiet, there's no one else living in the building. Yeah who called the police? And his brother-in-law is like, Oh, you're selfish, fuck off, whatever. But he's already thinking, right, there's something wrong here. This is not this is not the right. And now we're pretty much coming full circle because that's when he goes back to Marty. Marty gives him the 80 grand check. Yeah. He's like, We're settling. We're settling with you, North.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

There's no more You've got three more years on contract, there's the 80 grand that I promised you. And at the same time, he had the memo, and he was gonna confront Marty with the memo and go, What the fuck is this? But then he realized I ain't getting the 80 grand, I need to dig me out of a hole here, and there's three years contract that I need. So he's just there holding both the the money and the contract, and he he doesn't hand them the the the memo. The the memo and the and the money and the check. So he's kind of complaining.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

But this is the thing, he gets 80 grand, and then the n later that night he you can see he gives the money to that guy, but it's 75 grand, and that's why he goes to the gambling den, which you can kind of tell that that's he's got five grand and he's trying to because he said I haven't been to our gambling table in eight months. I've I've not been, I've not placed the best, I'm not I'm I've not placed the best, I've not done anything. And then we go full circle where he does the whole thing, gets out the gambling den, phone call, you see the guys, the undercover guys that and that's what the guy says, that he's like, I put the device in his car.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Yeah, it's not um like we'll see one in the mid in the main feature where there is a bomb under the car. This one is in the actual centre console of the of the vehicle in the backseat, he's fitting around. And the guy's because it's a it's a duo, and one's on lookout and one's doing the bomb planning. And his mate's like, he's coming, you know. So Michael Clay's walking around the corner and it's very, very close. And he he actually I think he just closed the door as he's still just happens to be on the phone, he's already looking, and he's put the bomb in there, but he hasn't been able to wire everything back up properly, which is why his sat nav is all glitchy. But presumably this is Karen's like authorised this as well. It's another kill is on UNorth, specifically on her. Yeah, so we'll see him now drive off.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

And now then this is pretty much the grand finale where they go in to settle. Yeah. And she thinks he's dead. Yeah, she thinks he's dead, and even the partners at the company because they're like, Have you heard? Yeah. Michael Clayton bombed upstate New York, carbon is and and everyone's like, What do you mean, car bomb? What yeah what's going on here? This is not just ooh, suicide or he fell off his horse.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

This is two deaths.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

But he obviously he realizes my car has just blown up with some. This is the same thing that's happened to Arthur. They're trying to get rid of me because we both we both know the secret that they're guilty. So he sets up a little sting of his own.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Which is brilliant because sh twilda Swinton is there with all the UNorth shareholders saying, Look, we need to take this deal, we're gonna have to fall on our sword here. We don't think it's as bad as it would be. In fact, it's gonna be a bit of a tax write-off for us, it's gonna cost us you know X amount of millions, we'll be able to take that hit. There won't be any comeback. And we're not admitting any guilt here. We're not admitting the guilt. And she goes out then of the while they debate what she's leaving, and she says, as League Council, this is what I would recommend. And when she goes out this big hallway, Clayton's there at the door and he's gonna see him and she looks at him like she's seen a ghost, and he goes, Arthur's walking around here as well. And I'm joking, I'm joking, because that's two people she's been responsible for killing. But obviously, having thought he was dead, he says, I'm not the guy you kill, I'm the guy you buy. Yeah, he just goes, What are you doing? Like, I sold out Arthur for 80 grand, I want ten million dollars, and this'll all go away. And she's like, I don't know what you're talking about. This is this and he's going, Don't give me this fucking bullshit. Look, five, but okay, five's more possible. And he goes, and he just basically gets her talking, and then her boss, Don, comes out and goes, This man bothering you? And she's like, No, no, just a minute, just a minute, I'll be a minute, and he goes, he he just hook, line, and fucking sink as her. Yeah, takes a photo of her.

SPEAKER_02 25:38

And also says, repeat this. I'll give you the ten million, I'll have them ready by today, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

Yeah. For the 468 million four hundred and sixty-eight people you North killed. I want the other five million, and she's like, Okay, okay, look, it's fine, fine. And Zing, Zing. He's wearing a wire. He's wearing a wire with his father, his brother-in-law, the brother-in-law of the. Just his brother, Gene. Yeah, his brother Gene sting. And she's like, Oh shit. They they go over there, don't they? You can just hear them as he's walking out. Can we get a can we get some medical assistance here? Because she's just collapsed and hit the ground. She her world is just fucking crumbled, and it can have happened to a nicer person because she's really, really horrible. Corporate greed. She's desperate.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

She's just really desperate and you know.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Um it's and he gets in a taxi and drive. Just drive. Yeah, just drive. Give me 50 bucks.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

It gives 50 bucks, just give me 50 dollars worth. And this film, it's sort of like a police squad ending where it's the camera just stops him and he's just sort of looking like it's you know, he's just like the camera just stays up while the credits are coming up, it's just cloony's face while he's just like relieved.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

First time I've seen this, I was just I wanted more Michael Clayton. I it was just like, what a great movie. What a what a twists and turns. It's so morally like grey because no one is great in it.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

The lawyers are I see like a nice but or someone that's like, oh, the lawyers are gonna defend whoever for money, Michael Clayton's sort of goods, you know, see some good in him, but he sells fucking meat for 80 grand. The only real good one is Arthur who sees the light and it causes him to have a fucking huge episode.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

But even him is still been doing it for spending it for like 12 years, six years, or whatever is it.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

And that's what takes his toll, its toll on him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

And it's just real corporate greed, but as far as like films that just they're out there and they're really, really good, and they're really right up my street. And I haven't seen, I hope there's some more out there like this because it was just such a brilliant couple of things.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

I I do have a hard enough cloony, he's fucking stuff like that. It's not when he's doing his super like, oh, I'm so cool, like ocean stuff. This is more like way more paired back than that. He still looks dappy. He still looks very good. But where he just looks tired or something. Yeah, he's just like fucking more of the shit. Which is obviously what his character's been on his journey, because he's tried to get out, but his brother's fucked him over. Yeah. So yeah, really, really good performance.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

Yeah, it just as I say it it it taps into that kind of corporate greed and that that disgust that they have of each other and and the money and the the morally bankrupt kind of ethics that a lot of them share in this film and it and everything.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

More explicitly in Fight Club, don't they? They just talk about the it's literally an equation, like when I think he's a loss adjuster or something for the Ed Norton's character, the narrator. He says if the car, you know, something if it's the fault of the car and people die, we just do like what the settlement would be compared to like what the court, you know, what the thing is just a strange equation. And never mind the human equation of like someone's died, or whatever. So it's the same here, they're just like people are dead, but it's too expensive, too much, too much you know, bad PR. We we just can't have that. Yeah. You fucking horrible.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Well, this is it, it's the stakeholders and the shareholders, sorry, that are the ones that the boards have to answer to. They're the ones that are gonna pay the wages and and invest their money or pull their money out and everything, so they're the ones they've got to do. But it was Yeah, right up my alley, this this this movie. I could watch it again tonight. Fucking brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

I also like it because it's worth a rewatch. You're in you're in the realm of lawyers and lawsuits and all that, but there's it doesn't glamorize any you know when you see a a law uh a lawyer film where they're in court and they like cousin Vinny where they're in court, it's like oh this guy's so amazing in court. No, they're all twenty-five people in a in a meeting room late at night grinding away on this course. Looking at at ways to to make more money and make more billing and billing more hours. And billing more hours and just trying to settle and trying to do this. How do we make more money? Basically, that's all there is. And no one, like you say, is no one is nice, no one is good, no one is it's just and it's also an insight into the high level of these corporations, how it really works, where there's no good or bad, there's no winner and loser. Just balance sheets.

SPEAKER_01 30:22

There's just yeah, there's that's just the memo that we didn't obviously look to to read, but they summarised and they talked about it being so expensive, the scientists who who created the the data and and did the report and it said there was you know human skin tissue damage and actually to start again and is gonna cost us so much we're not in a position to make these decisions. And it comes down to cost basically. We we're pumping death into your kitchen via the tap. It's odorless, it's colourless, it's tasteless, you wouldn't even know you're getting killed. You wouldn't even know you're getting killed. But if we're gonna now reverse all that, it's gonna cost us And their corporates and corporate logos like a like a leaf growing out of the scumbags. So what do you want to do with it? And the recommendation is obviously to hide it all and and fight in the courts and everything, and that's what they do, and all those characters know that's the case, yet for me they go to it. And we know that happens, and we know, you know, from other movies and and other real life court cases and things that shit like this actually happens, albeit quite rare, you would hope.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

But it was just north of just you north of 21 million, 21.5 million.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

Oh, it definitely made money. This is a great hit. Was there any nominations for anyone? We made 93 mil, so that's good news, isn't it? So from what? 25 to 93? Uh 21 to 93 mil. Yeah, 21 to 93. That's true. I'm pleased it made money. Had a great cast as well. Yeah. Everyone was good in it. Everyone.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

This is Tilda Swinton before she was like super androgynous.

SPEAKER_01 32:07

She's good good actors who are attracted to these films because they're good scripts.

SPEAKER_02 32:13

Like the the Marty guy, the what's his name? Sidney Pollock. Sidney Pollock, he was he was like pro you could you could think he's a lawyer. Yeah. You know, like if you when you look at him, you think, yeah, that guy's a lawyer. The the other guy, the other partner who's a bit of a dick, he's really good. Everyone's Tilda Swinton won the Academy Award for Best Supporting Actress for playing Karen Crowder.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

She did, she did how because you hate her in the film, right? But she's also sort of pathetic, she's out of her depth, she's desperate, she's a bit of a fucking loser, but she's a lot of people. Yeah, but you do hate her. Of course, yeah, because she makes all the wrong decisions. But she's just out, she's just spinning out of control with all everything that's going on. This is Tony Gilwood, the director's director's debut. Good debut. Strong guy.

SPEAKER_02 32:52

I don't know what he did after, but he started really strongly.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

For me, this is the strongest possible recommend.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

Yeah, this is this is as good a midweek as we've done this year. High price. Go and watch it.