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Coaching Mind's Podcast: Perform at your best!
Coaching Mind's Podcast: Perform at your best!
#126 - From Court to Career: Eddie Gill's Journey of Resilience, Mental Strength, and Giving Back
Eddie's journey from the basketball court to the world of financial services and broadcasting offers a compelling narrative of resilience and adaptation. Formerly with the Indiana Pacers, Eddie shares how basketball provided solace following the loss of his father and became a driving passion that shaped his early life. Through candid reflections on high school and college experiences, listeners gain insights into the mental challenges he overcame, such as adjusting to new environments and maintaining performance under pressure. Eddie's story highlights the crucial role of self-confidence built through dedication and repetition, offering valuable lessons on mental strength in sports.
Athletic careers often obscure the emotional struggles beneath the surface, and Eddie's experiences shed light on this rarely discussed aspect. He opens up about the pressure to appear strong, especially when siblings look to you for guidance, and the disappointment of not being drafted despite high expectations. His narrative underscores the importance of mental health awareness and the resilience needed to overcome setbacks. Eddie's journey is a powerful reminder that challenges and failures are part of the growth process, integral to achieving long-term goals.
We also explore Eddie's professional basketball career, marked by highs and turbulent events like the "Malice at the Palace." His reflections on that infamous night provide a firsthand account of its impact on personal and team dynamics. Beyond basketball, Eddie's pursuit of an MBA brings lessons that continue to influence his life and career. His dedication to giving back is evident through initiatives like his basketball camp, aimed at helping young people navigate their own challenges. For anyone facing life's ups and downs, Eddie offers sage advice: build a supportive network and collaborate to share wisdom and experiences.
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Hey, welcome to Coaching Minds Podcast, the official podcast of Mental Training Plan. Our mission is to empower coaches with the tools and insights needed to develop the mental side of the game and their athletes both on and off the field. We believe in deliberate planning and execution, because just hoping you're going to be at your best when it matters the most is not a great strategy. Today, joined by a very special guest, eddie, thank you so much for joining us today. It's a pleasure. Thank you for having me. So I know everyone in central Indiana, and certainly in the basketball world, knows exactly who you are. For the cyclists we have listening out on the East Coast and our rodeo gals out West, who probably have no idea who you are, can you give us just a quick intro, some background, about what you're up to these days?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's far more who don't know actually in Central Indiana, but yeah. So I played professional basketball for 12 years. Two of those years were with the Indiana Pacers and now I've been fortunate enough to have some opportunities to broadcast work with them over the last nine years or so. Obviously, I've been in the financial services industry for about 10-plus years now and currently with Invest in that capacity and I tell people that's my real job, and when you see me on TV talking about basketball, I'm just talking about basketball. I love it.
Speaker 2:So I thoroughly enjoy that. But yeah, grew up in Denver, colorado. I was actually born in New Jersey, moved to Denver in grade school and really just fell in love with the game of basketball and to this day it's the gift that keeps on giving. I love that.
Speaker 1:So you know, obviously our podcast focuses on the mental side of the game and I know that you know that that's something that you believe in as well. Take us, maybe I want to just kind of go back to your high school days or, you know, when you were, when you were a younger player. Tell us, were there any struggles on the mental side of the game? Was there any, any lessons you had to learn? Any coaches that came alongside and said, hey, here's some tools? Or was it just kind of thrown into the deep end, figure it out? Yeah, a little bit of both.
Speaker 2:I guess I'll rewind a little bit past that.
Speaker 2:So I lost my father at an early age as a kid. One thing he did he put a basketball in my hands and I just absolutely fell in love with the game. So the game itself, along with football. I actually played more organized football as a kid than I did organized basketball, but the game itself would turned out to be therapy for me. Right, it was.
Speaker 2:It was a place of enjoyment, it was a place of joy, even though there were times where it was hard and you know significant struggles and challenges, whether it was middle school, high school, trying to make a team and shirt and all those kind of things. I wasn't one of these kids who was afforded a ton of opportunity to play, you know aau basketball and all these different camps, because my mother just didn't have the means to put me through all those types of things, yeah, um, but ultimately it was a place of, again, of solitude, but understanding again, there are some challenges with that and at each level those challenges get a little bit steeper. So it was kind of a not necessarily a quandary, but it was on both sides of the spectrum, I would say, in terms of the challenges, but also a place of peace and harmony for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely so. Started off your college career at Eastern Utah. Tell us a little bit about okay, now that you're maybe taking this next step, what challenges appear for you, specifically in the mental side of the game.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I started off with the junior college route initially, College of Eastern Utah is where I started but ultimately going from being a quote-unquote city kid and then going into a very small town in the middle of nowhere Utah and just being able to adapt to a different culture, different surroundings, not a whole lot going on.
Speaker 2:Not a whole lot of I shouldn't say a whole lot going on, but just not a whole lot of access to everything that you're privy to and have access to in a city, Sure Away from family, and that kind of thing. So there were significant challenges there when you have that type of almost a culture shock to some degree. So having that trying to balance classes and then being able to go and trying to earn us not only earn the spot on the team, which I effectively had, but being able to find a way to get inside the rotation, stay in the rotation it was a very different coaching style that was there than what I had had a crone accustomed to in high school, and so all of those types of things definitely had an impact on the middle state.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so then played at Salt Lake Community College, ultimately ended up at Weber State. And now here you are, you guys go 25-8. Seeing some success. You got some individual accolades that year as well. Tell us a little bit about maybe. What was that transfer process? Look like, that change, what maybe happened through those years?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you know one thing that was good for me is I've always had an unwavering self-confidence about what I'm able to do in any scenario once I've put the work in right. I think with work and repetition becomes confidence. So understand that I was able to get that done and then be able to get to that level. I felt really confident about it. But there's also something to be said about you know once you've had a certain level of success and you've done something to a certain level, now there becomes an expectation that you continue to bring it back and do it again and then take that to another level. So there's challenges with that understanding that there's certain work that has to be done in order to achieve that same success or actually take it another level beyond Right.
Speaker 1:So you talked about an unwavering confidence. What about, maybe, the times where you came up short, the times where maybe you hadn't put enough work, in, the times where you said, all right, this part of my game has to be better? What did that look like, as you kind of went back into the gym or went back to the lab trying to figure some things out? Yeah, so about that?
Speaker 2:self-reflection right. When you're not able to reach that level of success, and then some of the humanity of it all and people around you, whether it's family friends sometimes the blame thing creeps in right when you want. There's someone else's fault. It can't be me, right? I'm a perfect being, so it can't be me. It must be someone else's fault. And I quickly learned that that was going to get me nowhere fast. And there's some self growth there that has to take place and the challenges from a mental state, just being able to understand that it's not always someone else's fault.
Speaker 2:More often than not, if you're able to do the mess, the things required, you will have some opportunity for some success. And then there's other times this is a piece of it. From a mental standpoint, you can do literally everything right, Put all the time and effort and energy, and it's still not yield the result that you're trying to find out. Then what do you do with that? That's when it really can set in and cause some angst and some pain there. So just being able to navigate those different spaces were critical for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I know you know we. What year did you graduate high school? Ninety six, ninety six, ok, so you and I. You and I were pretty close in age and I know Kirk Herbstreit has talked before on College Game Day about how when he was playing at Ohio State and he went in to see this sports psychologist, he kind of looked over his shoulder to make sure nobody saw him walking into the office. We didn't play at a time where, you know, there was a sports psychologist on every staff and it was easy to train the mental side of the game. Those resources weren't there. In the times that you found yourself struggling, what'd you do? Where'd you go? Who'd you kind of lean on, maybe in those moments? Yeah, that's a difficult one.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, in the absence of my father, as I mentioned, um, I did have older cousins who kind of helped, kind of to groom me and I would be able to go to, but, um, and this is not healthy at all, I do.
Speaker 2:I do not recommend this for anyone. I really internalized a lot of things, just dealt with it on my own. That's just been my human nature. My mother will tell you she's tried to get it out of me quite a bit. She understands that that's not a healthy way to maneuver and it's just been something that I've done since I was a little kid and so I didn't necessarily go to many people in terms of having some conversation because, as you mentioned, you know, in this day and age there's a lot of resources. There's, you know, some some dedicated resources in a lot of these different programs. You know, even going down to the high school and middle school level, there's sure there's, there's programs available, and even yours in particular. You know there's just it, just it just wasn't available, right, and then, as these things started to become a little bit more and more readily available, you still have those instances, like Kirk Herbstube is referencing, where it's like there's a stigma, like I don't want anyone to know that I'm dealing with something.
Speaker 1:But what I am cautiously optimistic about is there are a number of high-profile athletes that have both come out and acknowledged the fact that there's some mental challenges along with life lessons in all, in all, sports yeah, and I I love hearing the well, I just internalized it because it's like, well, yeah, me too, or I, you know, went home and got on my dial-up internet to see what I could figure out, what I could find, but sort of just wandering through a dark hallway just trying to grab at things, reach for things, try things, get help, you know, maybe from older cousins, older siblings, um, and I think I think it's important that we get that message out there, that you know other people are struggling on the mental side of the game too, and it's not like there's something wrong with you if you're a high school basketball player, college basketball player and you're struggling with some of that, and just like you know, there's nothing wrong with going to.
Speaker 1:We wouldn't think twice about going to PT. We wouldn't think twice about going to the trainer, wouldn't think twice about having, you know, a strength and conditioning coach help us take care of our body physically.
Speaker 2:So you know why why is that stigma there on the mental side of the game? Yeah, it's. It's definitely a. I didn't um for me personally, um, at the time. So I have a younger brother who I'm nine years older than so I quickly became his father figure, sure? So there was. There was moments for me personally where I felt like I'm sure there's many people out there who feel this way, where you feel like, well, I can't show any sort of vulnerability, I can't show any form of quote-unquote weakness, um, because you know, I have a little brother who's looking up to me, who I have to remain quote-unquote strong for um. So those are things that I and it just was second nature for me. I never, I never even gave it a second thought. I was like I got to power through this, I got to continue to do this. It just never even crossed my mind that I needed to succumb to the challenges or I needed to seek some guidance or conversation or that kind of thing?
Speaker 1:Sure, yeah. So here you are. You're coming out of Weber State, just had some personal success. You've got dreams and aspirations. I'm sure to continue on. Draft day comes around. You don't get drafted and now it's kind of this decision of all right, well, what do we got next? How do I still now go reach for these goals? What did that look like from the time of the draft until you started that professional career?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess you know, shame on me.
Speaker 2:I should have mentioned this. The first day of school, with my junior college, I met my soon to be wife. Ok, so she was always in my corner in terms of like, but she's my wife, so she's always like it's going to be OK. This will be, you know, all those those types supportive things that I needed to help me get through. And when you just referenced draft day, because we had a draft party at her parents' house at the time and who have always been incredibly supportive, along with my mother, obviously, but they hosted this draft party. We had a bunch of people come to it. I was projected first to the second round.
Speaker 2:Uh, drafted, I don't get drafted. Um, in that moment I walk out of the house, I walk down the street, I cry like a baby and then I'm like, hey, I gotta pick myself up somehow. Yeah, um, and try to figure out a way, because I, you know, I had supreme self again, self-belief and self-confidence of what I, what I could potentially do. But not getting drafted was really, you know, a really a hard blow to the system. Um, but again it was. It was a form of a life lesson for me. Hey, just some adverse moments. How do I get through this right? And again, I was. She was incredibly supportive, you know, from day one, throughout my career, before we even thought that the NBA was reality. So, again, just being able to go back, get back to it like, ok, well, this isn't the end of my story, you know, and that was just the mental fortitude that I had in that moment.
Speaker 1:So what did that look like? I just need to work harder, did that? I mean? How long was the? There was obviously an emotional reaction to it. You're obviously upset. There's some disappointment. There's maybe some wrestling with. You know, I thought I was good enough. Why didn't other people think I was good enough? How long did maybe kind of that negativity last? And then how long till you say you know what it's time to go back to work. It's time to do like you said before, what's required so that I have that confidence to keep playing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that self-pity and self-doubt was short-lived. If I'm being completely honest, it really only pissed me off more and just lit a fire even more. So I had plenty of healthy conversations with my agent about, you know, potential opportunities down the road. But again throughout my entire career there were times where teams ultimately said no and I just had to continue to go through and power through that for 12 years. But in that moment it just really made me work even harder and at that point it was again. The competition in me made me want to not only prove myself right but prove doubters wrong. Sure.
Speaker 1:So you know, now, here you are. You're on the cusp of this 12 year professional career and now we're well beyond high school basketball, where you know there's a lot of committed people. We're well beyond you know you go to college where that's made up of all the best of the best high school players. Now let's take the best, all the best of the best high school players. Now let's take the best of the best of the best in the world, and that's who you're competing against every day. That's who you're battling for a starting spot against every day. What did that look like? Maybe some lessons that you learned throughout that career about what it continues to take to show up and prepare like a professional day in and day out, knowing that at any point, if you can't live up to the expectations, you're out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it was, um, it was an incredible life lesson for me about competition, Um, and and what, what that really all entails. And sometimes it entails things that don't necessarily go on with what's happening actually on the court itself. Right, sometimes there's especially when you get to professional leagues there's decisions being made that have nothing to do with basketball, that maybe it's a business decision, or it's just not the time, or whatever the case may be. Or you know, maybe to your point, you know, maybe you haven't, you know you haven't fit the bill. Just, bottom line is, someone else is better and has that opportunity to take advantage of it, and they've been able to to to take advantage of that opportunity. The organization or the management or wherever it may be, it's given that individual that, that, that opportunity.
Speaker 2:But for me personally, again, I, I, I've always had something that's talked about the unwavering I'll call it irrational confidence. Right, there was times where, for example, I'm going to guard Allen Iverson, my cousin's, like, hey, what are you going to do? You got Allen Iverson tomorrow night. Well, guess what? He's got me tomorrow night too. That was my mind, and again, most people would be like, yeah, you're an idiot, but in my mind, no, absolutely not. There's something that has to be said about self-belief and what that means, because none of us can have any sort of level of success if we don't necessarily believe in ourselves with the utmost confidence. But again, that doesn't mean that things weren't hard. That doesn't mean that I didn't get cut multiple times. That didn't mean I didn't have to go overseas and then come back and get back in the NBA. All those things happened to me throughout my 12-year professional basketball and definitely had those challenges and some small moments of like is this for me or not? I would say that those moments were short-lived.
Speaker 1:Yeah, were there times where, maybe after a game, maybe after a time that you didn't play your best or, you know, maybe after you got cut or you heard no for a second, third, fourth time, were there times that you doubted. Along the way, like you know, I've had this irrational confidence, but maybe I'm not good enough in this situation. Were there any times that you struggled with that.
Speaker 2:I never thought that there was a time where I said to myself, hey, I'm not good enough for this particular moment or this particular situation. I did always, just maybe with subconsciously or consciously I would always dedicate myself to the work in the gym. Now you know what type of work I'm putting in and what particular skills and all those things would change as far as that. I'm working on that kind of thing, but I would always dedicate myself to the work. I never wanted to go into, like, for example, a training camp for example, and be out of shape. That was just a mind-blowing thing If someone came into camp and they weren't in shape, that just. And then, when I became kind of the veteran in the locker room I would talk to young guys about, hey, don't be the reason, don't give them a reason to to cut you, don't give them a reason to you know whether it's being late or you know not putting in the actual work or you know not listening.
Speaker 2:Some of the things that we can control, right, sure, you know makes and misses and mistakes those types of things on a court will happen. But things that we can control is the work that we put in showing up on time showing up early, staying a little bit later, uh, studying until sessions, those types of things, but um, but being able to do all those things again we're, we're a challenge, and at the you know, at the time I was raising the family as a young, young man and um, and and so there's definitely, uh, you know, life lessons in all of that, but definitely some challenges as well.
Speaker 1:So 20 years ago 20 years and a couple of days you know one of the one of the wildest times that I can remember as a Pacer fan. Malice at the palace occurs. Take us back to you. Know you're, you're there, you're not just watching this on TV. Take us through, maybe, what all happened, what that was like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean you mentioned the patient's history. That's probably one of the most wildest experiences in all professional sports. Yeah, we're in Detroit, I'm actually in the game when this all breaks out, but ultimately there's a foul committed. You know typical NBA scuffle Guys. You know exchanging some pleasantries and then before you know it, you know there's something comes flying out of the stands. We have a teammate of mine goes into the stands, another teammate goes into the stands, I go into the stands, I'm going into the stands as a peacemaker. I'm like, hey, we got to get out of here because it turns into an absolute melee. Sure, there's a lot of footage out there via youtube, um, but you know, and then at that point it's just sheer chaos. Right, it's just sheer chaos. And you know we go to survival mode and it, um, it just it just snowballs into into a complete melee. So, um, extremely unfortunate situation. Uh, hate that it happened, especially for that team.
Speaker 2:That team was showing real promise as to what the potential was, what we could actually accomplish throughout that through the course of that season. Clearly it derailed a variety of things for a number of players on that team, not just an opportunity to go and compete for a championship, but I genuinely believe we could have. But it definitely had a significant impact on a number of guys' careers. The next night we come back here to the field house and play a game against Orlando Magic where we only had six guys available. That was an interesting experience.
Speaker 2:I ended up playing all 48 minutes in that game because actually the previous night before we had already had four or five guys out. So that was an interesting experience. I ended up playing all 48 minutes in that game Because actually the previous night before we had already had four or five guys out with injury, and then there's some suspensions, so now we only have six guys in uniform. So the remainder of that season was major patchwork and just trying to get to the finish line. But wow, it was a wild one. You talk about the mental state of just trying to stay focused on the task and just kind of pick the pieces up. It was a major one.
Speaker 1:What were the? What were? As you look back on that, maybe some of the, the successes from a. You know I'm thinking, all right, if this happens to my team. We got to get focused on the things that we can control. We got to figure out, like, what's important now. We got to get dialed back into this present moment. We got to, you know, drown out some of the exterior noise that's out there. You know, social media not really as much of a buzz at the time, but I mean it's all over SportsCenter ESPN, every talk radio, over SportsCenter ESPN, every talk radio. So we got to, you know, not get too dialed in on that. And now we have to focus on this new task at hand, this new day, with the constant reminder that we have one sub on the bench and you know this is there. There's all kinds of now, adversity that's come out as you, as you think back to that. What were some of the successes where the coaching staff did a good job of kind of redirecting?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the operative word you use a number of times is focus. Right, you had to have unwavering laser focus because here's what the NBA and they were starting to not do. They didn't say, hey, we're going to pause the schedule for you guys, let you guys sort this thing out, try to get your team collected. And you know, reassemble. You know whoever you need to assemble to put a roster together and field out the rest of the season. They didn't do that for us, so we just had to make it happen.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know, in NBA games NBA season there's three, four games a week, sometimes more. So the games were coming fast. Again, I referenced it the very next night we had to play a game. So we're literally just picking people up off the street to fill the roster for those next couple weeks to try to get a team together to which we can go out and compete. So it really taught me a lesson of you've got to figure out a way to try to compartmentalize what's going on and stay locked into the task at hand, because, again, my career is on the line. I got to figure out a way to go out here and play with some level of effectiveness to try to get a job for the next season, whether it's with the patients or otherwise, yep, and understanding that it was. You know it was. It was a job for the next season, whether it was with the patients or otherwise, yep, and understanding that it was a task for sure.
Speaker 1:Any other as you think back on your MBA career any other times, or any other lessons that were learned that really stood out to you and maybe continue to make an impact on you, either personally, as a husband or father, or professionally with what you're doing now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say just the ups and downs, and just trying to keep a level and calm disposition right, not to get too emotionally high, not to get too emotionally low, because that's the game of life. I truly believe in sports, not only just professional. I feel like I learned some of these lessons as a kid. You don't have to be a professional athlete to learn some of these lessons, but there were a number of instances where there were again just ups and downs throughout that process, where you just had to try to stay even-keeled because you never knew what that next moment was going to be. And if you're chasing down emotions the whole time, it's going to be a long ride. Sure, absolutely, but still have a passion about what you're doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so talk to us a little bit now. How have you taken this into the real world? I know we had a conversation about the basketball camp that you have, where you know kind of a a passion to make a difference in the lives of people that you know are are struggling with some things. Whether that's it you know their, their own personal life, or you know life circumstances what are, what are some of the ways that that you now try and give back to the, the next generation that's coming up through the game of basketball?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean, I'll even take a page out of our invest book here.
Speaker 2:We believe in educated guided counsel, right, so we're able to do that and use it as a service component to people.
Speaker 2:That's rewarding for me and you know, throughout my collegiate career, professional career, we always had different initiatives where we go out into the community and work with kids or work with a group of people just trying to teach them the game. That was always a rewarding thing to me, just being of service to people. But one of the main reasons why I got into this industry as well just being able to provide a service and teach people and guide people and do some things to where they may not know we're available to them. And you referenced, like you know, even in camps, like it's great to see the progression when you have a kid come in and you meet him where he is or she is, and then you know days later after work or weeks later after work to see that progress that they've made. And again, the same thing within the financial services industry. We would think you know, start with someone day one and see what type of progress they can make over time. That's where the reward is for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then just a last piece, last question. We always like to ask our guests, knowing what you know. Now, if you could go back and give a younger high school version of yourself one piece of advice, what would that be?
Speaker 2:Oh, oh wow, that would be. Um, establish a network, um. Again, I talked to the point. I talked to the point about me, um, internalizing kind of keep it to myself and make it and just like, hey, I got this. You know, you know I'm big, strong bad guy, you know, I'll take care of all this on my own, I don't't need any support. That is not the way to get it done. I truly believe now in my old age, we can do far more together than we can apart. So I would say, encourage my younger self to just establish a network of good people to be around, to educate you, to provide some wisdom, provide some of their experiences and their knowledge and just lean on that right and just try to find people that you trust, build rapport with and you feel good about.
Speaker 1:Love that Well, eddie, thank you so much for your time today. It's been awesome having you on the show, really appreciate it. Thank you for having me. It's my pleasure. If you've got questions or would like to learn a little bit more about the MTP Academy, check out mentaltrainingplancom. And until next,