Join Us at Sub Summit

#046 - In this exciting episode, Julie chats  with her good friend Paul Chambers the Co-founder and CEO of SUBTA (Subscription Trade Association) to talk about this year's upcoming Sub Summit happening on November 11 to 13.

Tune in to learn how SUBTA can help you grow your subscription box business whether it's for finding vendors or getting training, or just networking with your colleagues. Plus get a special discount code for Sub Summit 2020 at the end of the podcast.

Links:

Sparkle Hustle Grow
Subscription Box Bootcamp
SUBTA 

Transcript

Julie: 0:01

So you want to launch a subscription box and don't know where to start? Girl, you are in the right place. I'm Julie Ball, a subscription box coach and your host here at Subscription Box Basics, a podcast for new and aspiring subscription box entrepreneurs that want to avoid overwhelm. So grab a coffee, some pen and paper and let's have some fun! Hey, everybody and welcome back to Subscription Box Basics. It's me, Julie Ball, your host. And I am really excited today to introduce you to a friend and colleague of mine, Paul Chambers, who is the Co-founder and CEO of SUBTA. So SUBTA might be new to you guys. If so, stick around for this episode because we are going to tell you how the Subscription Trade Association can help you as you are growing your business whether it's for finding vendors or getting training, or just networking with your colleagues. So I would officially like to welcome Paul to the podcast. Hey, how's it going?

Paul: 1:01

What up, what up Julie! Thanks so much for having me and I've got this really fancy soundboard. So let me get the audience applause.

Julie: 1:06

Yay!

Paul: 1:08

The first time I've ever used that. So it was very exciting for me.

Julie: 1:11

It was shocking and amazing, and I'm sure it'll just change lives.

Paul: 1:16

Yeah, absolutely. It just makes me feel great. That's all really.

Julie: 1:19

Good. Well, cool! So I met Paul a couple of years ago. I've been going to the Sub Summit for years now, and it's so much fun. We're going to talk a little bit about that later. But first I want you guys, your listeners to have a chance to meet Paul, you know, hear a little bit about his background and then we'll tell you what Sub Summit is all about. So, Paul, would you tell us a little bit about your background both before SUBTA and now what you do?

Paul: 1:43

Oh yeah. So it's a, it's a long story of history ranging from starting selling candy in fifth grade and building up, launching my first real business in middle school and continuing to grow into there. I like to tell everybody I've got, you know, 23 years of building subscription focused businesses cause I started with building websites and starting a hosting company at the same time and then grew into all sorts of different enterprises over the course of those 23, 24 now going on 24 years. And where I'm at today though, is focused on direct to consumer subscription community with SUBTA and was just sort of almost like stumbled into it. And you know how, like some of the best businesses are launched by happenstance in some cases. You know, you talk to this person who leads you to that person and that's really where a lot of this came from in. I met Chris George, one of my subject co-founders over dinner one night and we just got to talking about the internet and building businesses. And at the time, so I tell you I've done like a lot of weird different things, I was running a chain of gourmet popcorn stores. And I had like five different stores. And so we were talking, he's like,"You should be doing that online." I was like,"Yeah, I'm a franchisee, but I might be breaking away from that, or that might be ending. Maybe we should launch an online popcorn business." So we started talking about that and it didn't quite, it kind of came to fruition, but we failed at it miserably.

Julie: 3:13

We all have the failure stories. It's great. I love that you said that.

Paul: 3:17

Yeah, no. I mean the popcorn stories themselves are like a whole another podcast I'm sure on failure. But we tried that it didn't work out and then we eventually reconnected and he came to me with the idea for Gentleman's Box. And he and John had been talking about building the Gentleman's box. And I still have a website development agency and at the time, so I was building websites and I said,"You know, I love the idea. I will help you guys build it. If you're interested in giving up some equity in exchange for that." We eventually agreed to that and came up with a good idea, a good arrangement that works for us. And we built and launched Gentleman's Box. I think it was like two years into building that, that we said,"You k now, let's find a conference we can go to. Meet other like-minded subscription box owners. And because Chris and John had this,"We're going to go to this e-commerce conference and we're g oing t o go there." I'm like,"Guys, there's gotta be like a subscription conference, right?"

Julie: 4:11

Right. Because we have our own lingo when we have our own problems and things that we want to talk about with our colleagues.

Paul: 4:16

Absolutely! And I(was) like,"Guys, this has to exist." So we're like googling, googling, googling, didn't exist and you know, crazy stupid entrepreneurs. And like,"Let's just make a conference. That sounds easy."

Julie: 4:27

Of course!

Paul: 4:27

No, it's definitely not easy to do. But we took on the challenge and we gave ourselves like 30 days to build this subscription box conference in 2016. And we somehow miraculously pulled it off. I mean, we were like, you know, the thing that's really hard to explain to people that aren't entrepreneurs is the roller coaster of emotion your day can be as an entrepreneur. And I know you can relate to this and I'm sure your audience can relate to this. You can have like the best moment in one day and then go to the bottom of that roller coaster later that day.

Julie: 5:03

The crashing burn.

Paul: 5:03

It can just be, and we had those moments building out the first conference. We had like a big name speaker lined up to come and speak with us. And all of a sudden t hey're just backed out. And t hen the thing just blew up. We were like,"Oh my gosh! How are we g oing t o get people to come to this? How are we going to bring this community together?" We've committed to this hotel t o like food and beverage and all this stuff. And later that day, Liz Cadman from My Subscription Addiction emails and says,"Hey, I've got Katia Beauchamp from Birchbox. She says, she's happy to come and speak. And Michael Broukhim from FabFitFun I think he's in too." We're like,"No way!" Two of the biggest names in t he subscription industry at the time w ere onboard for coming to Detroit, Michigan. Because we wanted to hold it close to home, the very first conference were like,"It'll be easy to get to and everything else." So somehow they agree to come to Detroit in 2016. And we pulled this event off and pulled 200 people into room.

Julie: 5:56

I remember that because I launched Sparkle Hustle Grow in Q4 of 2016 and all of that Summer and that Fall, I was putting all the pieces together, Google searching, watching all the YouTube videos, just trying to put together my business. And I remember that Sub Summit came on my radar and my husband lived in Detroit. Well, not in Detroit, outside of Detroit. So Michigan for quite a while. And I had been up there once or twice and I was like,"Oh, this would be really great" But I wasn't all in on my subscription box yet. It was still kind of a side hustle. I hadn't broken a profit quite yet either. So I couldn't justify to my family like spending this money to go to the Sub Summit. So I watched from afar. I remember following, as you guys would announced your speakers, that I had all this FOMO, I was like,"Oh no, I'm missing out." But then I got to go the next year and I got to be on stage the following year. And so I've just loved following along, but I have a quick question. Did you launch the Sub Summit before you launched the trade association then?

Paul: 6:59

So that's our little secret, we actually did. Not really secret, we talk about it a lot. But it's a funny thing because we launched the conference because we wanted to bring people together. And right after the first one, we were sitting with a PR consultant and friend of ours. And he's like,"You know, you guys should find a trade association to align with so that we could maybe be their conference. They could send people to you. We're like,"Oh yeah, great idea." More googling, googling, googling, didn't exist.

Julie: 7:24

Nothing.

Paul: 7:24

We absolutely loved the energy out of that room in that first event. It was like the highest high coming out of the end of that event. And I remember sitting there... It's funny that first night after the conference, Michael Broukhim like"You guys, you've got something special here bringing together this community and everyone was being so helpful to each other." And, you know, people from similar businesses that would either fight for share of wallet or fight for customers, helping each other giving advice. And we knew we needed to continue that experience outside of the event. And so it was with that kind of like,"You guys should find a trade association to align with", and that energy we felt saying we needed to help bring this community together even more so outside of the event. And that's when we created SUBTA the Subscription Trade Association.

Julie: 8:13

Okay. So tell everybody what SUBTA is and what your mission is. And I mean, obviously why they need to join and we'll give you guys a special discount code. The Sub Summit is coming up November 11th. Is that right?

Paul: 8:27

Yep. November 11th to the 13th. Yeah. You gotta wait all the way to the end of this podcast to get the special discount code, or just fast forward. But we prefer you wait and listen. I hope it's going to be of value to keep talking to you.

Julie: 8:41

So tell us what SUBTA really is.

Paul: 8:42

Yes, so SUBTA was created and still is the largest direct to consumer trade association for subscription commerce in the world. And continue to stay focused on the DTC space. And our goal is to help build, shape and empower, and catalyze the subscription commerce industry. We have various different offerings and different things that we do. We've got a SUBTA Slack channel. We've got a unique Facebook group. We provide endless amounts of content and it's something we're continuing to work on and continuing to build out. Building out tools, offering, you know, Bulu Group has a great calculator to help you calculate how to build a subscription business that we've integrated as part of our subject premium membership. We have a free membership that people can join just to get involved in conversations and be a part of it.

Julie: 9:27

And that's a great place to start.

Paul: 9:29

Yeah, absolutely! We played with a bunch of different models when we launched the trade association and ultimately we found like we just want to help bring people together. And if here's things that we can do to provide additional value and they can subscribe to the trade association for getting that additional value, then great. If not like we're so happy and just helping bring people together through that free model and creating that community. So we're really excited to be continuing to grow that.

Julie: 9:58

Awesome! So you can go listeners to SUBTA.com for that information. Paul, if someone goes to SUBTA.com, where would you say it was like the best place to start there? Cause there's a lot of good information on there. So giving them kind of this place to start, I think would be really helpful.

Paul: 10:12

Yeah, absolutely! When you log into your account, there's a lot of articles that you can check out. I think one of the biggest benefits though is that Slack community that we have, and we do have a great Facebook group as well. Both of those w ill kind of play to different areas and what you're looking for, but the Slack community. We see so many awesome conversations happening out there, a nd somebody will pose a question of,"how do I, what's a good fulfillment method for looking at this or that?" And you'll get guys like Matt Arevalo, who was one of the Co-f ounders o f Loot Crate chime in a nd saying,"Here's what we did." He's a licensing wizard. If you ever want to do licensing, you can message Matt direct and ask hi m a bout licensing. He will talk to you forever about that, you know? And so there's some really cool, really cool opportunities in there that you could save all that time of wondering, and researching an d G oogling how to do it. It can go right to the experts and people who have done it at scale and have awesome conversations with you, even Julie.

Julie: 11:13

And access is half the battle, because so often when we're starting a new business, any entrepreneur knows this, it can feel like you're on an Island. And so having that network of people to just ask questions to is so, so impactful. Okay, let's talk about the upcoming Sub Summit because I can attest, you guys know how to throw a party. We have so much fun when we go to those events. Now, granted it's 2020. So the event is virtual this year and we just participated in the Women in Subscription event and it was virtual and it was amazing. You guys brought energy. I had so much fun networking there, so I can't wait to see what you do with Sub Summit. So can you tell us little bit how that's going to pan out this year being virtual and maybe a little preview of what to expect?

Paul: 11:57

Yeah. So definitely is challenging. And the virtual world and you've heard of this from anybody, virtual is definitely not the same as in-person. When COVID first came down, we initially were set to go our conferences, et cetera, in the end of May. And we initially kicked it out to November, these November dates here and thinking like,"Oh okay, yeah COVID will eventually go away." We know it's not. And so we, in that interim time, we said,"All right, let's do some smaller virtual event and talk about companies that were experiencing challenges during COVID. And that was Subscription Innovations we did July 30th. And it was a one day event. It allowed us to learn a little bit more about the virtual environments, how they work and produce content that would be helpful for people at that time and see what worked and what didn't. And about the same time as well, I realized in doing just some research out there and looking at the space as a whole and looking at our responsibility and our position as SUBTA in the space and saying,"You know, the women in subscription are really really underrepresented." And we as SUBTA have a responsibility to help propel the community and help that part of the community as well. I've got a 10 year old daughters and I'm experiencing right now and how I help them grow as young entrepreneurs or doing whatever they want to do. And we saw an opportunity to help create this event in a virtual fashion right now as well. And that was Women in Subscription. And so we launched that one and through those two virtual events, and we're hoping to take Women in S ubscription to be an in-person event next year.

Julie: 13:32

Yay!

Paul: 13:32

We'll see what happens with COVID and making sure everybody's safe bring the community together. Yeah, we're so excited. And so through those two virtual events, we've learned some kind of like best practices on how we can create experiences as best as possible in these ways. And so we're going to do that with Sub Summit November 11 to 13. We've got some awesome sessions lined up, some awesome topics. We're doing some fun things like get that club sponsored a comedy club that we're going to put in the expo hall. And so you can go i n and t here'll be like on-demand content. You can go and watch. And they're like subscription box focus and subscription f ocused jokes.

Julie: 14:07

So funny.

Paul: 14:07

We recorded it actually the other day. So that way it's like an on-demand segment and the comedians are so funny and that was really good. So doing fun stuff like that, we've got some like live chat opportunities. We have different networking lounges that people can go in. So if you want to talk about just about fulfillment or product procurement or data and analytics or customer retention, you can go to those specific lounges. Cause we realized like one networking lounge was a little too much c risscross i n topics and conversation. So let's create f ocus, networking lounges, and so doing those kinds of things.

Julie: 14:41

I like that.

Paul: 14:41

And then we're really excited Simran Dua the new CEO of My Subscription Addiction, she's going to be doing a live appearance. So with most of our content, we prerecord a lot of it just to help ease the burden on the day of the event, especially over three days. My family wouldn't want to see me cause I'd be so cranky. So what we're doing is a lot of that's prerecorded to help set it up so that way we can get it going out there, but then Simran is going to make sure to join us live, live from the expo hall on November 12th. And she's going to be taking questions. I'm going to be interviewing her and pulling up questions live and asking about customer obsession. So one of the things that My Subscription Addiction really talks about and talks about well is how having a very customer focused experience and enhance that and help improve customer retention and help enhance acquisition. And so she's going to be taking those questions live from people. And then there's tons of awesome sessions too, that we've got in there.

Julie: 15:40

Yeah, I really look forward to that session. I'll be tuning in for sure. Are you going to use the same platform as you did for Women in Subscription?

Paul: 15:47

Yeah. So creates like a really cool virtual lobby. For this one, we expanded it even more. We integrated t he SUBTA sounds so people can go and check out some of the various content options we have in there. Eric Musick from the Subscription Box Show p odcast, introducing a special session into that. James McKinney from Startup Story. T here's a special session that he recorded. That's going t o our SUBTA sound studio, our virtual one. And then we have our SUBTA library that people can go into, they can click into, it looks like a real library. And then it's got links off to some of the subscription books out there, Robbie Kellman B axter's book, K ara G olden's new book that she just came out with. So trying to create these experiences. And it's cool. They look like these little virtual rooms that you can click around and click through and be part of an experience. And then the virtual expo hall we have, when you're in person, the largest expo hall in all of D TCs subscription commerce in-person at Sub Summit done the same thing in the virtual world as well.

Julie: 16:42

That's so cool. Listeners, let us paint a picture here, this isn't like your typical summit where it's like everyone jumps in a zoom room or, you know, it's just like this basic video. This almost feels like video game where you can navigate through to the rooms that you want to go to cause that's where the sessions are or that's where the networking is. So it's a really unique setup and what's great about that is it keeps you engaged. You know, it keeps you like looking around, seeing where you want to hang out. And so I'm really glad to hear that you're using that platform again. So quick plug, I heard you talking about books. Did you know I'm coming out with a book?

Paul: 17:21

I see that there now. That's exciting!

Julie: 17:24

It's called Subscription Box Basics: A 30 day Plan to Get Your Box Idea Off the Ground and it's a workbook. So it works you through getting your idea ready to move into pre-launch. So that's coming out in the next couple of weeks.

Paul: 17:37

That's so exciting. Well then once we wrap up this podcast, I want to talk more about that. Cause I think there's some awesome things we can do together on that.

Julie: 17:44

Right on! See people, that's how it's done right there.

Paul: 17:47

Yeah, exactly! And I agree to that, Julie. I think it's funny because we oftentimes forget about, you talked about this at the Women in Subscription, just making that ask. And you obviously didn't ask there. You're just showing it. We were talking about it. It was very topical and we celebrate that. When the very first Sub Summit happened, the reason we're able to bring in Katia and Michael and help build that event is we just asked Liz like,"Hey, we're putting this event together. We want to get you involved. We think it's beneficial for everybody." And this is the pitch I always make to anybody I'm ever talking to about Sub Summit is it needs to be beneficial to everybody involved. I often say like building an event, it's like a wedding on steroids'cause in the wedding, the bride and groom. That's all you care about. If your guests don't like the steak who cares? Right? Screw them. As long as you've enjoyed every aspect of it. And it's been special for you that day, then that's great. But with an event, our focus is on making sure the speakers are getting valued. They're showing up and they're able to meet people that they wanted to meet. The attendees are getting great value. They're seeing the exhibitors that they want to see. They're learning about services that they want to learn about. They're hearing speakers that they want to hear. And then the exhibitors of course, and the sponsors they want to generate business from it. So we need to make sure that the right people are in the room and the right opportunities for conversation are happening. So it's a very complex thing. And this is why I say it's like, it's really hard to build an event. But I think one thing that's really worked for us well is we didn't have event builder backgrounds. So we didn't have like a rubber stamp that we brought in.

Julie: 19:20

You weren't boxed in.

Paul: 19:20

Yeah, pun intended.

Julie: 19:23

Yeah!

Paul: 19:23

Right? So, you know, we didn't have this like preset notion of this is how events are run and you have a session. You do that. Like we come up with some cool, unique and creative ways to do things like our after party. We don't give people drink tickets and say like,"Oh, we had bart(ender). We just,"Who cares?" So just an open bar and come in and have fun. And here's some great food and, you know, provide ways for people to talk in. Admittedly, we're still always learning. We're always finding ways to get better. And, you know, we were a little bummed when Sub Summit 2020 couldn't happen'cause we had some fun, cool stuff where you're gonna roll out. But we'll save it for the next time here.

Julie: 19:55

You guys have such a knack for creating unique, memorable experiences. My team and I still talk about walking the red carpet with Captain Jack Sparrow. I t was so much fun. He took pictures with us. Like it was one of those unexpected moments where we were all moving into. Was it the dinner time? Or we were moving into the Cube awards. You're right. And we got in line to get in there. And all of a sudden we r ealized there's Paparazzi surrounding us. We're walking on a red carpet. And captain Jack Sparrow is taking pictures with us. We're like, we never wo uld h a ve t hought about putting that at our event. But it was the most amazing experience. We laugh about it still to this day,

Paul: 20:38

Yeah, there was a fun tie in for the sponsor PirateShip, which was the sponsor of the Cube Awards that year. And we wanted to find a unique way for them to get exposure. And I'll tell you, the red carpet was all Chris George's idea, as much as I'd love to take credit for it. The first year we ran Cube Awards was 2017 in Austin. And if you look at my notes as you know, I'm not the onstage guy, I'm the behind the scenes guy, usually at the events. And so we look at my notes from that year and I think I saved them still. It's like just a bunch of curse words all over because I care so much about the production value and experience. And it was just like, we're kind of figuring it out. We're familiar with you a little bit. We had a couple of people on stage. Some people were standing, some people were sitting. I'm like,"Oh my God, this doesn't, this doesn't, this isn't the experience." And every year we've gotten better at it. And so going into 2019, Chris George says, you know, like"I want people to show up with like tuxes and black tie affair. And you're just like all big." I'm like,"I don't know if we can demand that out of people yet, but let's create that experience." We invested more in our lighting and sound and made the stage pretty. And the room, the room had that feel when you walked into it. And he said,"Let's make a red carpet." And so we went out and I don't know how much we spent on those red carpet and weighs a ton. An d i t's sitting in o ur warehouse still right now, but we bought this huge piece of red carpet, bought a bunch of stanchions on Amazon, we hired some paparazzi to come into the event. And then we had our video guy out there, my brother doing, you kn o w, t he interviews as the Emcee. And we just wanted to create this experience because it' s, i t's an event to honor everybody in the industry and everybody should feel special as they're walking in.

Julie: 22:06

And have fun.

Paul: 22:06

Yeah, absolutely.

Julie: 22:09

And for those of you don't know, tell everyone with the Cube Awards are.

Paul: 22:13

Yes, so the Cube Awards are our annual award ceremony. We're on our fourth year of our Cube Awards now, and we're going to do our best to make it just as fun in the virtual world. It's going to be November 12th at 4:00 PM in our virtual environment is when we'll air. And the Cube Awards honor the best in the industry. And over time, the awards have continued to evolve in the categories. We slimmed it down a little bit for virtual this year, but from best subscription box to best pet box, to best digital subscription, best media subscription. And we have our nominees and we narrow it down and announce the winners at the Cube Awards.

Julie: 22:44

And am I allowed to announce that I'm a guest judge?

Paul: 22:47

Yes. You can share that you're a guest judge. Absolutely.

Julie: 22:49

This year I was honored to be a part of the team in choosing the Cube Awards. And it was really interesting to see the backend of how it works, of how we look at. We're asked to look at the boxes holistically not only from how they present themselves, how innovative they are and ultimately how their customers see them. And it's so, so important to look at it from all those perspectives because as the business owner, I could just look at it as like,"What do they put in the box? How are they executing?" But it's so important to look at the customers delight and the reviews and stuff. So it was a really good experience being a guest judge. So thank you for having me on that front.

Paul: 23:30

Yeah, absolutely! We love that. And it's because you get to see so many, you see so much Julie, you're so involved in this world and your opinion is so meaningful to that and helps truly make it a worthwhile selection in what we're looking at there.

Julie: 23:44

Well thank you. And I want to tell everyone real quickly too, going back to the point about collaborating and just asking, I remember very specifically when you guys did, I think it was 2017 or 2018. I can't remember exactly, but I remember reaching out to you guys, cold emailing you saying,"Hey, I'm Sparkle Hustle Grow. This is what I run. I would really like to be on your stage for Sub Summit." And I remember getting on a call. I was in a parking lot. I had to pull over to do the call. I remember this, but just pitching myself and pitching my background. And that's one of, and look at us now we're on a podcast together. I'm a guest judge. This is one of those collaborations, one of those business relationships that started with a very simple ask, or I said,"How can I get involved?"

Paul: 24:33

Yeah, it's amazing. And I love the hustle too at that time. And just reaching out to us and it worked. It's like,"Oh, this is just doing really cool things and this is really neat." What you were building at the time, and it's amazing. We could talk for hours on the ask. And I'm amazed sometimes like the people that I'll email and the responses I'll get back. Like I emailed Kara Goldin CEO of Hint Water last night about something. She responded to me at 1:00 AM. 1:00 AM.

Julie: 25:03

'Cause she's a hustler. She's an entrepreneur. That's what we do.

Paul: 25:03

Yeah, she just came out with a book Undaunted and it's been really fun reading it. And actually there's another book that she was in. I think it was 21 Women Who Rule the World.

Julie: 25:18

Cool.

Paul: 25:18

And I was doing a video interview with her and I was just telling her at the end of it, we'd wrapped everything up. And I was like,"Kara, that book's awesome. I'm going to go on Amazon right now and order and start reading the stories to my girls at night." And she's like,"Hang on, I'm going to send you one." And literally like the next day, it arrived in the mail with some Hint Water for my kids'cause they all love Hint Water.

Julie: 25:37

Nice.

Paul: 25:37

And you know, it's just really cool to know, those people. I think we talked about this earlier, before we started, just good people that you meet out there in the world and it's fun to have that community.

Julie: 25:50

Yeah. And I might be biased, but I think we work in the best industry in the world.

Paul: 25:55

Yeah, absolutely! Because there's so much, I mean, you can get wine in this space. You can get some food, you can get awesome things that inspire you everyday. It's endless.

Julie: 26:06

Right? You could get anything.

Paul: 26:06

Yeah. Clearly I need a razor right now so I can get that in subscription. It's amazing.

Julie: 26:13

Yeah, that's so funny. Okay. So to wrap this up, everyone can go to SUBTA.com to join the trade association, but we told you we had a special code for you. Tell us what the code is and what discount it's going to get our listeners for Sub Summit.

Paul: 26:29

The secret code is SPARKLE.

Julie: 26:32

Dong Dong, Dong.

Paul: 26:32

Yeah. So if you go to SUBTA.com and you can register for a premium ticket, use the code SPARKLE and you'll get the ticket for only$50. And you get a welcome box so that you can access to the VIP networking lounge. You get all the sessions to watch as much as you want. We learned a lesson from our first couple events that we had two tracks running. It was hard for people to decide where they wanted to go. So we're only doing one track in this one, but we know that everybody can't tune in for the entire thing. We got things going on in our days and virtual events, aren't the same, you know, your phone rings, you walk away.

Julie: 27:04

You got to homeschool your kids.

Paul: 27:04

Yes, that too. As I left this morning, I left my laptop at my house this morning'cause my son couldn't get on his zoom. So I got him on from my laptop, you know? And so like things come up, the world happens right now, especially and so you'll get that as well. So we'd love to have you anybody listening.

Julie: 27:22

Yeah and I'll be there. I hope to see you guys there. Paul, thank you so much for joining me. This was a super fun conversation. I really am cheering you guys on. It's so good to have the trade association and just the fun events that you guys put out there and the resources. So from us to you, thank you so much.

Paul: 27:40

Well, thank you so much as well, Julie. Mutual admiration club absolutely love everything that you're doing truly admire it. And you know, yours is one of the everything you're doing is one that I talk about with my girls at night too. You know, we li ke w e lay in bed and talk about like business things. It's a really, you know, it sounds like an odd like parenting style, but I do n't k n ow. It's just, it's fun. And we connect on that.

Julie: 27:59

It's part of the DNA of your life and I get it.

Paul: 28:01

Absolutely, absolutely so thank you.

Julie: 28:01

Yeah, right on! So thanks again for joining me listeners. Again, head over to SUBTA.com. Use the secret code SPARKLE. And I hope to see you at the event, guys. Thanks for listening and we'll see you in the next episode.