#064 - In this episode, Julie is joined by her friend Abby Ashley of The Virtual Savvy to talk about how a virtual assistant can help you grow your subscription box business.
Summary:
Links:
https://www.thevirtualsavvy.com
https://www.thevirtualsavvy.com/hire
https://www.facebook.com/groups/vasavvies
https://www.facebook.com/TheVirtualSavvy
https://www.instagram.com/TheVirtualSavvy
Get all the details and your ticket at SubSummit.com, THE conference for sub box businesses. We'll see you in Dallas this June!
#064 - In this episode, Julie is joined by her friend Abby Ashley of The Virtual Savvy to talk about how a virtual assistant can help you grow your subscription box business.
Summary:
Links:
https://www.thevirtualsavvy.com
https://www.thevirtualsavvy.com/hire
https://www.facebook.com/groups/vasavvies
https://www.facebook.com/TheVirtualSavvy
https://www.instagram.com/TheVirtualSavvy
Get all the details and your ticket at SubSummit.com, THE conference for sub box businesses. We'll see you in Dallas this June!
So you want to launch a subscription box and don't know where to start? Girl, you are in the right place. I'm Julie Ball, a subscription box coach and your host here at Subscription Box Basics, a podcast for new and aspiring subscription box entrepreneurs that want to avoid overwhelm. So grab a coffee, some pen and paper and let's have some fun! Hey everybody! Thank you for joining us today on Subscription Box Basics, the podcast, I'm your host, Julie Ball. And I have a guest here today that is going to help you make some serious movement and get out of your own darn way in your business. So often when we are growing a subscription box business, there's so many moving parts that we get bogged down and today's guest is going to help you dig out from under that. So I would like to welcome my good friend, Abby Ashley. She is the CEO and founder of The Virtual Savvy. Hi Abby!
Abby:Hey, I'm so excited to be here.
Julie:I know I'm so glad to have you on the podcast today. We've known each other for years and I've been following along your journey and your business is so successful and I'm so happy for you. And I know that what you do and what you know, can really, really help my audience, which is new and aspiring subscription box business owners. So some of them will be meeting you for the first time. So why don't we take a moment first to tell a little bit about yourself, your background and what your company does?
Abby:Of course. Well, hi, I'm Abby Ashley. My business is The Virtual Savvy and I am not a subscription box owner, although we should, we should talk about someday. I don't know how cool would that be.
Julie:Yes.
Abby:I'm not a subscription box owner. However, like Julie said, she and I have been friends for a very long time. And what I do is I teach people how to become virtual assistants. So I have an online course that leads aspiring VAs, aspiring, you know, remote freelancers essentially that teaches them how to decide on their services, price, and package, what they're, what services they're offering, how to market their business, et cetera. So it's been a really incredible journey. And one of the things that has definitely helped me and helped my business grow from, you know, in the very beginning, maybe making a couple thousand dollars up to a hundred thousand dollars years up to a hundred thousand dollars months, like at a certain point, we had to hire people. And so I know that some of you guys listening, you may not be ready to hire, but it's such a good idea to go ahead and to get in the frame of mind of what is it going to look like when I hire and you know, w what does even hiring look like with, with a subscription box business? So, I'm just really excited to chat with you guys today. I think this is going to be a lot of fun.
Julie:Awesome. And so, for those of you who don't know what a virtual assistant is, it is someone that is helping you with your business remotely. So that could be anything from social media. It could be doing admin stuff, it could be doing what else, Abby content creation. Virtual assistant could be helping you with your books. You know, so let's, if you hear the word VA, we're not talking about Virginia, we're talking about virtual assistant. And so I know this will get new to a lot of you. So let's start with how a virtual assistant can actually help give you back some of your time, you know, you teach people how to become a virtual assistant. What are some of the most popular categories of where there's the demand and where you see the most business, like the most help in someone's business?
Abby:For sure. Well, so like you said, a virtual assistant is a super broad term, just like, you know, a freelancer, that's a very broad term, and there's so many things that could fall under that. I really, I think of it as a category, even more than a job description. And so what normally a VA will do is they will provide either administrative, creative or technical services remotely. So what do you think that you would hire an admin, either a marketing admin, or a technical admin, you know, somebody to come in and help you assist you with in your business? Essentially, you could do that with a VA. Now there is finding the right fit and making sure the skills line up, et cetera. But what's so great is you think about your day and as your business starts to grow, there's things that either you're not good at doing, let's all admit, you know, like get me away from like designing graphics and things'cause I'm just not good at it. There's things that you shouldn't be doing because you're not good at it, or there's things that you shouldn't be doing because it's taking it. It's taking a lot of time, right? Repetitive tasks, things that you've created a system for essentially. And you're like, I could really hire someone to do this. All right. That's that light bulb moment that maybe I really should be starting to consider bringing in somebody. And what's great about bringing in a VA is that, you know, when you're newer in your business, you likely can't bring somebody in as a full-time employee. And there's so much that goes into that, you know, paperwork and paying out taxes. Are you going to offer health care? I mean, there's so much to do when you're hiring an employee. So when you're hiring a freelancer, what's amazing is that they, you know, they're an independent contractor. And so they pay for their own taxes and social security and all of those things, right. Healthcare. And so you're literally just paying the rate that they give you. And so that's essentially what a VA does. So you have to think through what are some of the things that are in my business, that man are just starting to be a little taxing, right? Likely customer service emails. That's a huge one that people hand off, right? Especially, again, as much as you can have your own templates and systems in place ahead of time, then you can train the VA on. Here's how I go about doing this. Here's my standard procedure, but then they can go on and make it better too. They can improve upon your systems, which is the ultimate goal, right? So other things, you know, if you do have any kind of invoicing paying invoices, right, I'm sure you guys are getting, like having for a lot of your products, marketing for sure, right? Getting yourself out there. So social media management, creating your different social profiles, uh, posting to those profiles, you know, coming up with a Pinterest strategy and, and, and really getting on Pinterest or on Instagram or whatever platform you choose to market. You know, writing blog posts, there's so much that could go under that VA description. And so, it's really identifying what is it that you need and then finding the VA with the skillset that's compatible.
Julie:I think it's really important to add to that when you're looking at what you might delegate, what you might outsource, you talked about things that you're not good at, which, you know, as most of us are starting as a solar preneur and we have to wear a lot of hats and it's okay if we're not good at everything. So things that you don't like to do, which obviously you just want to get off your plate, but also things that like physically drain you or emotionally drain you. One of the things that emotionally drained me was those customer service emails. And that was the first thing I hired out for. I met Renae Gonzales who she's my right hand gal now, you know. She's been working with me for several years now. I met her through the Boss Mom group, same as how we met originally. And I said, I just need some help with my customer service emails. I'm looking for a VA. I think we started out with like five or 10 hours per month. That's not a lot. I realized that, but I needed to baby-step it. I needed to see how this was going to work. I needed to see how this was going to change how I felt and I needed to be able to trust someone else. I feel like a lot of times, as a solopreneur, it's hard to delegate. Like we want to, we're like,"Oh, I just need some help." But then when it's time to delegate and to outsource, it's like,"Are they going to be able to do it as good as me?" Cause this is my baby. And so do you have any tips on like how to prepare for that moment where you're like handing over your baby at daycare, you know, handing over these tasks to a VA?
Abby:Cause it can be so scary, right? So, yeah, there's a couple of things that you can do. Number one, I think that it's very important to have the right mindset. Where do you plan to be? Where do you intend your business ago and is having a team, a part of that if you want to grow your business very far, the answer is yes. Right? So, I mean, some people can say just like a one, one man, one woman shop and that's fine. And, but you just have to realize your income will be kept.
Julie:Yeah.
Abby:Right. And so, at some point you are going to have to hire. So just getting in the mindset that it's like, okay. I just, like, I figured out how to start my business. Right. Just how I figured out this social media channel or whatever, you can figure out how to hire well, how to manage well, how to train well, right. And so, is there a learning process? Absolutely, yes. But there's some things that you can do to make it easier for sure. And so one of the first things is having a really clear picture of what you want this individual to do. I usually tell people to start out with a time study of where's their time really going, some of us don't even realize that we're spending hours on tasks that could be so easily handed off. Right. I mean, we are just, yeah, we're just going through these tasks that, that with one quick video or one quick SOP, a standard operating procedure where you write down just the steps of how you do what you do. Literally you could train somebody else in, you know, less than an hour.
Julie:I love that. Yeah. We use loom a lot. Like we'll just video, like this is me doing this and then we pass that off. So I love that. And I love too that you said do a time study because we talk a lot about that with, actual shipping and packing day, like do a time study, how long does it take you to build the box, pack everything in and ship it, and that can help you identify what that opportunity cost is. Should I outsource, you know, do I want those hours back? How long is this taking me? So you can kind of take that same approach then with these other administrative or social media or whatever tasks in your business.
Abby:Of course, yes. And, and just identifying the things that it's like. Hmm. Should I, and I think this helps for outsourcing in general, maybe there's something that you're doing that you don't end up outsourcing to a VA, but you outsource to a service, right. Or like some kind of an online platform. So if you're sending out physical invoices, is there something that you could, you know, invoice automatically or whatever it may be, right. Like automations. And so, over investments, both are a form of outsourcing and you've just got to figure out which one is right for you. So definitely doing the time study. I do think, you know, that's one of the best steps to identify what you need to outsource. Like these are the things that need to go. I think it can definitely help and identifying how many hours you need for a VA. But you do have to realize that you are going to do something potentially three times faster than a new person starting in your business, right. You were when you started or even if you were, you had the vision behind it. So that's what enabled you to be faster. So I think that wouldn't kind of coming up with the times, definitely the goal is for them to be able to do things. I mean, eventually better. It's so amazing when you hire people and it usually doesn't happen right at the beginning. But over time you look back and you're like, you're literally doing this better than I did. And that's the goal, right?
Julie:Yes. That happens to me all the time. I will do a loom of, this is how I accomplish this task and then I'll pass it off to a virtual assistant and there'll be like, okay, I see how you got from point a to point B, have you considered this way instead? And then we'll cut the time in half. And I'm like,"why didn't I think of that? It's because I was too busy with all the other moving parts of my business and virtual assistants get really good at certain things. So I think that, in your course you teach different software. So like someone could get really good at using this one type of software and almost become like expert status on it. You hand over a task to someone who's better at a software than you. And they'll like, knock it out of the park and make that workflow even better.
Abby:Yeah. It's, there's just so, so many ways that it just optimizes your experience at it. It allows you to take a vacation, right? It allows you to, to really let yourself be the visionary, which you are, is why you started this, our mutual friend Danna. Right? So that's how we met was through this Boss Moms group. And, Danna talks about promoting yourself to CEO. And you're, you're not CEO. When you start your business, you are. You are CEO, but you are also right. Social media manager and copywriter and customer service.
Julie:Coffee maker.
Abby:Coffee maker, janitor, right? Like you're everything you need a janitor right here. I have like cups all over my desk right now and I need to go see your, all of the things, right? And so eventually you need to upgrade and maybe you're not CEO within your very first hire. Maybe now your manager, maybe your lower level management. Promote yourself, like upper management and then executive leadership. And eventually you can be that CEO where you're just calling the shots, boom, boom, boom, boom. And everybody's doing everything, but it's a process. Right. And so what is, what's that next step for you? And most likely it is to get out of the very bottom weeds, the things that,"Hey, I already have systems for. I already, this is taking up my time and it's taking away from the higher level tasks that I couldn't but should be getting."
Julie:Yeah. I agree with that. And I like to call that person, the foot soldier when I was trying to explain years ago, like what I was doing and trying to find the right VA and hire more help. I was like,"I don't want to be the foot soldier anymore." And when I said it that way, they, they really got it. And I love that. And just to take your point one step further too, if you guys like personal development and you like to read, you should check out Dana's book, it's called Climb Your Own Ladder. And that is a really good book to work on your mindset of getting to the point where you see that you want to be the CEO. You want to move up your own ladder and start delegating these things to a VA. So, I think it's important to talk a little bit about hiring because that's a huge challenge. So let's take the conversation there. Like where do you find a VA let's start there and then tell us about like, what are some good qualities would want to look for or red flags, that type of thing, because no one wants to hire and then fire and then hire and fire, just trying to find the right person. Sometimes it does take a few tries before you find that right fit. And I have some, some ideas, but I want to hear, I want to hear it from you first.
Abby:Okay. Okay. Yeah. So maybe you've heard the adage, you know, hire, what is it? Hire slow fire fast. We try not to hire, we try not to fire too fast our company because hopefully we hired well. Right. So we, but I really, really do think that taking the time, you know, hiring isn't something that should be rushed. I hope that you do it soon, but that doesn't mean that the process should be rushed. And essentially after you've decided on those tasks, come up with just a one paragraph, I call it a job description. People might call it something else, but it's essentially just like, what's the recap, right? What, or what are the bullet points of really what I want this person to be doing? What I want them to be owning a little bit of, you know, what would this position be once they're fully in it and kind of give some vision inside of that. So come up with that, that job description. I also recommend that you have a budget now you're hiring an independent contractor. So you're not saying, Hey, my, the rate is$10 an hour, 15 or 30 or whatever it's. But because they're independent contractors, just like if you had a plumber or a painter come to your house, you're not like saying, well, I can pay you$100. They have their own rate. They have their own system for working, et cetera. but however, you can still have a budget, right. And I think it is important that, you know, how much can I actually afford so if that individual's rate is too high, then you could go look for somebody else. And so, that is that's the next step I would say is really, really get clear on your budget. And just in your head about how many hours you would possibly expect that for what you need done.
Julie:And I think it's important to stay here too, for subscription box business owners, the more you grow your business, the more subscribers you get, the more that budget should grow, because you're going to have to take care of more customers. But if you're watching your profit margins, you're going to have more of that money to budget towards help.
Abby:Yeah. We have a PNL every single month, a profit and loss statement, and it shows the percentages. How much did I spend on, you know, on supplies, on travel, on team, on all these different things. And so every business is different. So I'm not going to come out and tell you, this is how much you should spend on team. We personally, we spend my company spends very little on marketing and advertising. We just have a really great organic strategy. So our ads budget is like less than like 2% or something like it's super low compared to a lot of businesses. But our team budget is like almost 30%, right. And we run it like 40% profit margin. So it's, it's almost half of our entire expenses is just on team.
Julie:Wow!
Abby:And so, you know but you can't just take that from me because my business is looking different. Every business is going to be different. Right. And so kind of what, what is that percentage? So as your income grows, okay. I was spending a thousand dollars a month on a VA on contractors, whatever. Well, my businesses doubled now I can spend 2000 a month. Right. That percentage.
Julie:Yeah. What are some general rates ranges like for different? I know, I realize that there's going to be different rates for different levels of expertise, different niche specialties. So just the general range rate.
Abby:Yeah. And so it really depends. You will see people talk all the time about like hire a VA for$3 an hour. That is not what I teach my students to do. I teach them no matter what country they live in. Although most of the people I train are in the US or Canada, you know, places that do have a higher cost of living. so most of the VA's that I personally trained train will start out their general admin services. So again, if I'm just doing kind of the light, like the things you were just passing off to me, the things you already have for$20 to$30 an hour is generally how my VA start. And that that's not a standard, it's just kind of what we found...
Julie:Your experience. Yeah.
Abby:Right, right. And then, on up to, you know, they usually increase their rate. So even a general VA could still be 30 or$40 just they've got years of experience and they know more, they're more technically proficient. and then a lot of times people like you were saying, we'll go into a certain specialty. So they'll say now I am a Pinterest manager, or now I'm a podcast editor or whatever it is. And at that point, a lot of times they'll sometimes they'll still be hourly and that might be$50,$60 an hour. Or it may be that now they just have a package-based pricing, which I love package-based pricing, package-based pricing. Say that five times fast. I love it from the freelancers standpoint and from the client's standpoint. Cause it's just nice to know, like this I'm gonna pay this month, this much, every month. I know that this is going to happen. If they do the work fast or do it slow, I don't care as long as I get the end product. Right. So Pinterest. Yeah. Yeah. A Pinterest manager say I charge 299 a month to manage your entire Pinterest account. Okay, great. Cool. And I can just mark that off as an expense. So, so yeah, it really ranges if you're hiring that general admin, if you, you know, if you're hiring more of a specialist, if they have packages, et cetera. but yeah, that 20 to$30 is fairly standard of what I've seen at least with US-based VA's, which is generally who I train.
Julie:Yeah. And I would really suggest guys, if you're thinking about hiring a VA, really vet that person, like look into their business, get some testimonials or referrals, that type of thing, because it's just really important. You got to remember that saying about you get what you pay for. So you don't want to just go in at the lowest rate and find the cheapest freelancer because they might not be skilled in the areas that you need. So Abby, tell us some of like the good and the bad when it comes to qualities to look for or red flags to watch out for.
Abby:For sure. I think that the top thing, oh, maybe two top things. we always look for somebody that is, that has this like above and beyond figure it out attitude. Right?
Julie:Yes, I love that.
Abby:And so asking them questions that you normally would do like a discovery call, right? You find somebody and you guys talk back and forth and it's like, Hey, let's get on a call and see if this was a good fit. Have a list of questions ready for them and see how they respond to the things that, that you ask them. So for instance, if, if they didn't mention that they use ConvertKit or some in an email platform, right. And you're like, I use convert kit. Is that something you're familiar with? And especially if you know that they're not, sometimes that can be, or like I've been thinking about running, you know, Facebook ads, what is that? Something you have any knowledge about, even if you're not expecting them to do that really? Like, I just like hear their response, right. Because, they may say no, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. Some people just know like, Nope, this is my land. I'm going to stick there. but if they're just like, Oh no, I can't do that. Right. Or is it, you know what? I haven't done that, but I'm a hard worker and I can figure it out. Like I'm smart. I know I'm taking a course in it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Or maybe, you know, maybe they know that that's not an area, but they're like, you know, I'm not, but I actually, I have, I have a couple of referrals I can send to you. Or I would love to do some research to find the right person for you. Right? Like it doesn't mean that your VA should not solve all your problems. They're not going to be able to do everything for you. So don't expect them to be able to answer all your customer service emails and run Facebook ads and make sales calls. And you know, they shouldn't do all the things, but their response to those kinds of difficult questions is going to show you, do they have like a, I'll figure it out. Like I'm in your corner, I'm going to go above and beyond attitude. And that, that to me is huge. And if somebody doesn't have that, then we don't hire them. Our company, you know, we've hired so many people over the years, we've got a massive team. Now we have 16 full-time employees actually now. And we, we will always hire for culture over skills. So, you know, and our culture is action over perfection. You know, we are just go getters.
Julie:Talking about your company culture there. Like what is like your mission? And what's important to you guys as a team.
Abby:Yes. Having those same values and, making sure that they're just going to be a cultural fit is in my opinion, way more important, because skill can usually be taught, especially if they're the can-do attitude, right? But culture that's an eight. Like you can't be can't necessarily change somebody's personal, like culture, culturally at least. So, yeah. Finding out like some other values and, and, and, and so part of that is you knowing your own values, right? Like if you haven't come up with a company mission statement and knowing like kind of your values, then do that. Pre-work for sure, because you want somebody to match. And I really, really, really recommend that. So that would be, you know, I think that that's the best process of the other thing I was going to say. Cause there were two, let's see. Oh, the next is communication.
Julie:One of the biggest complaints that I hear from clients who hire VA's is like, I just, I gave him this assignment and you know, I haven't heard from him in a week. It's been two weeks and I don't even know what's going on. And we, we teach our VAs. You can never, over-communicate like, we've never had a client. That's like, Oh my gosh, you're communicating too much. Now if they're asking like, you know, a question every five minutes, but as far as like status reports and like here's where I'm at. And, and so ask them, number one about their communication. Are you, do you plan to give me like daily reports or weekly reports kind of what's, what's your process for communication and then, you know, seeing how quickly they do respond to, you know, the email afterwards or their process, if you, if you're like, yeah, I think we should move forward with a discovery call.
Abby:Does it take them four days to get the discovery call, you know, invite to you then that's probably not a good sign. So little things like that, I think, can make a big difference. And I also last one, I really recommend this isn't necessarily, something that like a skill to look for, but something that I would consider doing too, is take a look at the contract for sure. Your freelancer should have a contract. But make sure you look through it really, really carefully and see if there's any way to do possibly like a trial period. Right? Could I, could I do just a one month with you because you can tell a lot working person for one month and just say, Hey, after that one month, we'll me and I'm happy to, you know, sign a longer contract after that or whatever it may be, but see if they, they would be willing to do just kind of that one month little trial period. If it doesn't work, that that may not be that you're a bad manager. It may not be that they aren't a good employee to some kinds of people just don't work well together. And it is better to go ahead and like, cut that cord if you know, it's not going to work. Right. You could save yourself a lot of time and heartache. So if it's already the expectation, then it's not like, Oh, awkward. Like I need to, you've only been here four weeks, but I need to let you go. Right. It was already the like, Hey, it's on the calendar four weeks from now. We'll just mutually meet and be like, do we still feel like this is a good fit? Yes or no? And if, no, no. Then no hard feelings. Let's just go our separate ways.
Julie:That's really great advice because you see that in the corporate world too. You know, when you get hired your 30, 60, 90 day reviews, and if something's going on, you need to hear about it quickly. You have to be able to communicate with your freelancer, with your VA about expectations. And if they're meeting them, when I hired Renae, as my VA, we did just that, we, I said, I can only commit to 10 hours a month right now. That's what my budget has, but should this work out? Let's revisit this in 30, 60, 90 days. My goal is to find someone that can grow with me, not only growing your hours, but I want to grow your rate too, as you continue to perform and bring value to the company. And I think that made a huge difference in our early relationship because she felt like I was really committing to her. And so she wanted to also commit. So it was a really good mutual, business relationship. And now we're like biz besties and soul sisters. And like, I was really lucky. I realized that not everybody's first hire is going to work out that well. So I think, again, your advice about taking your time, really making sure that it's a good fit. I think that's such good advice and it's scary, no matter what, it's going to be a little bit scary. Okay. So I know that this question is going to come up. People are going to want to know where do you even find this kind of magical unicorn for your business? So obviously you've got some insight on that. Would you share?
Abby:Yeah, for sure. I think the first place is that if you have an audience yourself, check out your own audience, right. I would post on your own socials and, you know, friends, friends, and family, or if you have an email list, right. Let your email lists know because the people who already know you personally or know your business and love your business, those, there may just be a diamond in the rough there, right? Like even if you, even if your subscription boxes about like, like cat toys or something, like, who knows, like if you may have a crazy cat and do really, really administrative background, so really look to your own audience first. After that, because a lot of times that ends up with no results. Right. And you definitely, you want to find at least three people to interview have discovery calls with, right? You may think the first one's amazing. You're like, Oh, this is a perfect fit. But then number two is even more amazing. Right? So like you people it's okay to do that. I would also recommend, so we personally, our business has a Facebook group. it's called The VA Savvies Community and we have over 50,000 VAs in that group. And what you can actually do is you can post inside of that group. If you have a job opportunity, you can also just go to my website and go to The Virtual Savvy.com/hire. And we will take your job description and post it to some of our Facebook groups actually, to some of our paying students, the ones that have really committed to their business and are trained in The Virtual Savvy ways. So that's just another good resource for you guys. It's a, it's a free process. So, you can check that out.
Julie:I am so glad you shared that because I have no doubt that people are going to be heading over to that website. We'll make sure to include that in the show notes. So if you are thinking about hiring head on over there and you have a blog there too, I know like even if like you're not a VA, you can still learn how the VA mind works by reading some of those blogs and, get behind the scenes. You got to understand their industry. I found that to be very helpful. I've read several of your blog posts, when I was hiring for specific things. So, you guys want to head over there, it's TheVirtualSavvy.com, right? And then you just click on blog.
Abby:Yes.
Julie:Awesome. Well, do you have any closing thoughts on the, using a VA in the subscription box industry?
Abby:Yeah, I mean, just as a general rule guys, it definitely, it can be scary. Like Julie said, this is your baby. Right. but it's so, so, so worth it at the end of the day, managing my team. I mean, these people have become some of my best friends. They have really amplified the business. They've been able to do things that I never would've been able to do myself. So, you know, trust in the process. Definitely commit yourself to finding that right person, give yourself grace, if you hire the wrong person, it's okay. That doesn't mean that it will happen again, even if it does, you get better each and every time. So, I'm just so excited for you guys and yeah. Thank you for having me here.
Julie:Absolutely. I love chatting with you. And, I know that everyone listening is going to be super interested. So where can they find you online? I know we talked about your websites already, but where do you hang out on social media?
Abby:Mostly Facebook and Instagram. So just facebook.com/TheVirtualSavvy or Instagram.com/ TheVirtualSavvy. I am on YouTube as well. And that's actually youtube.com/AbbyAshley. I don't know why I didn't do the work so Saturday, but I didn't.
Julie:No problem. We'll make sure to include all the links. Abby, thank you so much for such a source of information and inspiration for me throughout my journey, but also now for all of our listeners. Thank you for joining me today.
Abby:No problem. Thank you.
Julie:All right. Thanks everyone for listening in and we'll see you on the next episode.
Speaker 3:[inaudible].