{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":1.29,"body":"This is a draft transcript"},{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":1.29,"body":"produced live at the event"},{"startTime":1.29,"endTime":2.5,"body":"and corrected for spelling"},{"startTime":1.29,"endTime":2.5,"body":"and basic errors."},{"startTime":2.5,"endTime":3.73,"body":"It is not"},{"startTime":2.5,"endTime":3.73,"body":"a commercial transcript"},{"startTime":3.73,"endTime":4.95,"body":"and will need to be checked"},{"startTime":3.73,"endTime":4.95,"body":"if you wish to publish it."},{"startTime":4.95,"endTime":5.43,"body":"AXSCHAT"},{"startTime":4.95,"endTime":5.43,"body":"Susi Miller"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":5.43,"endTime":6.63,"body":"Hello and welcome to Axschat."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":6.63,"endTime":7.85,"body":"I'm delighted that we are"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":6.63,"endTime":7.85,"body":"joined today by Susi Miller."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":7.85,"endTime":9.37,"body":"Susi has written"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":7.85,"endTime":9.37,"body":"a very important, in my opinion,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":9.37,"endTime":11.93,"body":"book which is Designing"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":9.37,"endTime":11.93,"body":"Accessible Learning Content"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":12.44,"endTime":18.44,"body":"because learning and online"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":12.44,"endTime":18.44,"body":"learning is ubiquitous"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":18.44,"endTime":21.13,"body":"and yet it is"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":18.44,"endTime":21.13,"body":"an often-forgotten part"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":21.13,"endTime":27.9,"body":"of the accessibility universe"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":21.13,"endTime":27.9,"body":"because everybody working"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":28.85,"endTime":32.55,"body":"in large and small organisations"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":28.85,"endTime":32.55,"body":"needs to learn new stuff."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":33.06,"endTime":34.34,"body":"And we need to make sure"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":34.34,"endTime":36.99,"body":"that that learning content"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":34.34,"endTime":36.99,"body":"is accessible"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":36.99,"endTime":42.07,"body":"and yet it's often been the last"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":36.99,"endTime":42.07,"body":"bastion of inaccessible content."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":42.07,"endTime":44.369,"body":"So, Susi it's great to have you"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":42.07,"endTime":44.369,"body":"with us today,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":45.25,"endTime":47.12,"body":"can you give us a little bit"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":45.25,"endTime":47.12,"body":"about your background"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":47.12,"endTime":49.66,"body":"and how you came"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":47.12,"endTime":49.66,"body":"to write this book?"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":50.48,"endTime":53.58,"body":"First of all, thanks ever"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":50.48,"endTime":53.58,"body":"so much for having me."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":53.58,"endTime":56.3,"body":"I really appreciate it"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":53.58,"endTime":56.3,"body":"and I really appreciate"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":56.3,"endTime":59.17,"body":"having the platform and the"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":56.3,"endTime":59.17,"body":"opportunity about speaking"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":59.17,"endTime":61.31,"body":"about learning accessibility."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":61.31,"endTime":64.06,"body":"I could not agree"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":61.31,"endTime":64.06,"body":"it is one of the areas"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":64.06,"endTime":66.73,"body":"that I think is often forgotten"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":66.73,"endTime":68.86,"body":"from accessibility"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":66.73,"endTime":68.86,"body":"the community."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":68.86,"endTime":71.67,"body":"So, thank you, as I say"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":68.86,"endTime":71.67,"body":"for allowing me to come in"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":71.67,"endTime":74.12,"body":"and talk about"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":71.67,"endTime":74.12,"body":"eLearning accessibility."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":74.12,"endTime":77.5,"body":"So, my background really is"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":74.12,"endTime":77.5,"body":"I have been in learning"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":77.5,"endTime":80.54,"body":"for about 30 or 35 years."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":80.54,"endTime":85.3,"body":"I started off"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":80.54,"endTime":85.3,"body":"as an English teacher."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":85.3,"endTime":89.03,"body":"And then,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":85.3,"endTime":89.03,"body":"moved into software training,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":89.61,"endTime":93.31,"body":"in the public sector, working in"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":89.61,"endTime":93.31,"body":"local authority for many years."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":93.31,"endTime":95.57,"body":"And from there I moved"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":93.31,"endTime":95.57,"body":"really like many people"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":95.57,"endTime":99.82,"body":"into instructional design"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":95.57,"endTime":99.82,"body":"and online learning"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":99.82,"endTime":103.69,"body":"and that then took me"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":99.82,"endTime":103.69,"body":"to working in the university"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":104.54,"endTime":108.97,"body":"in the UK for a few years"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":104.54,"endTime":108.97,"body":"and it was there really that"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":109.71,"endTime":111.52,"body":"while I was"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":109.71,"endTime":111.52,"body":"in the local authority"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":111.52,"endTime":114.0,"body":"I was really interested"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":111.52,"endTime":114.0,"body":"in accessibility"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":114.0,"endTime":116.65,"body":"and in assistive technology,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":116.65,"endTime":118.06,"body":"I was lucky enough"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":116.65,"endTime":118.06,"body":"to work with someone"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":118.06,"endTime":121.18,"body":"who was a screen reader user"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":118.06,"endTime":121.18,"body":"which got me really interested"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":121.18,"endTime":124.31,"body":"in making sure I was designing"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":121.18,"endTime":124.31,"body":"things that were accessible."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":124.31,"endTime":126.97,"body":"But then moving"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":124.31,"endTime":126.97,"body":"into the university,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":126.97,"endTime":128.88,"body":"I was lucky enough to work"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":126.97,"endTime":128.88,"body":"with a few people"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":128.88,"endTime":132.0,"body":"who were specialists"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":128.88,"endTime":132.0,"body":"in accessibility,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":132.0,"endTime":134.35,"body":"and I think"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":132.0,"endTime":134.35,"body":"that really for me,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":135.18,"endTime":139.58,"body":"really focused me on just"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":135.18,"endTime":139.58,"body":"how difficult it was to find out"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":139.58,"endTime":142.17,"body":"about anything to do with"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":139.58,"endTime":142.17,"body":"accessibility when it came to."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":142.17,"endTime":144.44,"body":"eLearning. So, kind of"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":142.17,"endTime":144.44,"body":"finding out"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":144.44,"endTime":148.15,"body":"more about the web content"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":144.44,"endTime":148.15,"body":"accessibility guidelines"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":148.15,"endTime":152.19,"body":"and like so many people trying"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":148.15,"endTime":152.19,"body":"to fathom out what they meant"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":152.75,"endTime":156.94,"body":"and specifically"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":152.75,"endTime":156.94,"body":"for our work,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":156.94,"endTime":158.37,"body":"working with learning"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":156.94,"endTime":158.37,"body":"and development,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":158.37,"endTime":161.73,"body":"trying to apply them to actually"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":158.37,"endTime":161.73,"body":"what we were doing was,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":161.73,"endTime":166.2,"body":"I found it very, very difficult."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":161.73,"endTime":166.2,"body":"So, in the end I just realised"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":166.2,"endTime":168.58,"body":"that if I wanted to specialise"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":166.2,"endTime":168.58,"body":"in accessibility"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":168.58,"endTime":171.66,"body":"and in eLearning really, I would"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":168.58,"endTime":171.66,"body":"have to just go it alone."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":171.66,"endTime":173.72,"body":"So, I started my own company"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":173.72,"endTime":175.619,"body":"and that is when I also"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":173.72,"endTime":175.619,"body":"wrote the book"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":176.18,"endTime":177.79,"body":"to help other people"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":176.18,"endTime":177.79,"body":"who said"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":177.79,"endTime":182.07,"body":"that they didn't have to go"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":177.79,"endTime":182.07,"body":"through quite the same struggle"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":182.07,"endTime":184.72,"body":"as many people"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":182.07,"endTime":184.72,"body":"were already doing"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":184.72,"endTime":187.44,"body":"trying to make their learning"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":184.72,"endTime":187.44,"body":"content accessible."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":188.42,"endTime":190.11,"body":"So yeah, that is me really."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":190.11,"endTime":191.34,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":191.34,"endTime":193.98,"body":"So I think it's a bit"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":191.34,"endTime":193.98,"body":"of a common theme"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":193.98,"endTime":198.26,"body":"amongst 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ourselves"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":215.48,"endTime":218.69,"body":"and I am really passionate"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":215.48,"endTime":218.69,"body":"that we start"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":218.69,"endTime":221.1,"body":"to put"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":218.69,"endTime":221.1,"body":"some kind of decent framework"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":221.1,"endTime":225.92,"body":"around teaching people"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":221.1,"endTime":225.92,"body":"how to be accessible"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":225.92,"endTime":228.06,"body":"and also teaching accessibility"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":228.06,"endTime":230.52,"body":"because those are two"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":228.06,"endTime":230.52,"body":"slightly different things."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":233.03,"endTime":237.57,"body":"And hopefully that"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":233.03,"endTime":237.57,"body":"we'll have generations to come"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":238.35,"endTime":241.43,"body":"where this will be"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":238.35,"endTime":241.43,"body":"second nature to them"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":241.43,"endTime":243.78,"body":"rather than something"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":241.43,"endTime":243.78,"body":"that they need to dig into"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":243.78,"endTime":246.21,"body":"and think about and realise"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":243.78,"endTime":246.21,"body":"that is missing."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":246.85,"endTime":251.15,"body":"So, what are some of"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":246.85,"endTime":251.15,"body":"the challenges that you have,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":251.15,"endTime":254.77,"body":"if we go back to sort"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":251.15,"endTime":254.77,"body":"of eLearning systems"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":256.57,"endTime":259.2,"body":"and there are many"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":256.57,"endTime":259.2,"body":"but there are probably a handful"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":259.2,"endTime":261.89,"body":"that are really"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":259.2,"endTime":261.89,"body":"sort of commonly used."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":261.89,"endTime":266.22,"body":"What are some of the challenges"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":261.89,"endTime":266.22,"body":"that you find with eLearning"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":266.22,"endTime":268.4,"body":"and the creation"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":266.22,"endTime":268.4,"body":"of accessible content?"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":269.38,"endTime":272.26,"body":"So, I think from the point"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":269.38,"endTime":272.26,"body":"of view of the tools,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":273.33,"endTime":275.36,"body":"I think that is"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":273.33,"endTime":275.36,"body":"a starting point 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things"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":289.6,"endTime":292.18,"body":"accessible."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":292.18,"endTime":296.21,"body":"And one of the things that I do"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":292.18,"endTime":296.21,"body":"in a lot of the webinars,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":296.21,"endTime":299.5,"body":"and you know any kind of"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":296.21,"endTime":299.5,"body":"conferences that I speak at"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":299.5,"endTime":302.29,"body":"is try really to bring out"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":299.5,"endTime":302.29,"body":"the good things"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":302.29,"endTime":303.91,"body":"that are happening"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":302.29,"endTime":303.91,"body":"in accessible tools"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":303.91,"endTime":306.43,"body":"because it is very easy for us"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":306.43,"endTime":308.31,"body":"as learning developers"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":306.43,"endTime":308.31,"body":"and designers,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":308.31,"endTime":310.04,"body":"just to be saying"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":308.31,"endTime":310.04,"body":"we can't do it"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":310.04,"endTime":311.86,"body":"because the tool"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":310.04,"endTime":311.86,"body":"is not letting us."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":311.86,"endTime":314.23,"body":"So, for one of the things"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":311.86,"endTime":314.23,"body":"that I start do"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":314.23,"endTime":317.36,"body":"at the Tech Share Pro Session"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":314.23,"endTime":317.36,"body":"that we did."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":317.36,"endTime":321.67,"body":"I had all three tool providers"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":321.67,"endTime":322.97,"body":"and one of the 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statement"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":339.11,"endTime":341.01,"body":"or a V Pack"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":339.11,"endTime":341.01,"body":"before you start."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":341.01,"endTime":344.82,"body":"So, you know, you're not"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":341.01,"endTime":344.82,"body":"trying to yourself work out"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":344.82,"endTime":347.37,"body":"what the limitations of the tool"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":344.82,"endTime":347.37,"body":"are if you have that,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":347.37,"endTime":349.46,"body":"you know a conformist"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":347.37,"endTime":349.46,"body":"statement up front"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":349.46,"endTime":351.46,"body":"then that is a really"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":349.46,"endTime":351.46,"body":"positive thing."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":351.46,"endTime":355.21,"body":"You see really great 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Those are really"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":368.82,"endTime":372.85,"body":"some of the positive,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":372.85,"endTime":374.87,"body":"brilliant positive things"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":372.85,"endTime":374.87,"body":"that you see"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":374.87,"endTime":376.51,"body":"and that is the type"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":374.87,"endTime":376.51,"body":"of things that I try"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":376.51,"endTime":378.52,"body":"and bring out"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":376.51,"endTime":378.52,"body":"the good things as well."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":378.52,"endTime":382.82,"body":"I think the frustrations are"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":378.52,"endTime":382.82,"body":"still you know as with any tool."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":382.82,"endTime":386.78,"body":"You know where you have got"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":382.82,"endTime":386.78,"body":"the ATAG 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about"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":449.05,"endTime":450.85,"body":"if you make"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":449.05,"endTime":450.85,"body":"your tool accessible."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":450.85,"endTime":453.22,"body":"It's almost you know,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":450.85,"endTime":453.22,"body":"it's still,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":453.22,"endTime":457.14,"body":"I think a feeling a bit like"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":453.22,"endTime":457.14,"body":"it's shoehorned in afterwards."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":457.14,"endTime":460.09,"body":"So, a lot of the tools that have"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":457.14,"endTime":460.09,"body":"been around for a while,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":460.09,"endTime":462.9,"body":"I think that is"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":460.09,"endTime":462.9,"body":"probably how it feels."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":462.9,"endTime":465.28,"body":"It feels like some of them"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":462.9,"endTime":465.28,"body":"I'm familiar with using,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":465.28,"endTime":466.98,"body":"it does feel a bit"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":465.28,"endTime":466.98,"body":"like an add on."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":467.64,"endTime":470.09,"body":"Its just we have"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":467.64,"endTime":470.09,"body":"forgotten about"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":470.09,"endTime":471.96,"body":"and then it's just"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":470.09,"endTime":471.96,"body":"put it in at the end"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":471.96,"endTime":473.76,"body":"and it is not part"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":471.96,"endTime":473.76,"body":"of the workflow,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":473.76,"endTime":475.93,"body":"and it is extra work for people"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":475.93,"endTime":477.88,"body":"which I think can be"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":475.93,"endTime":477.88,"body":"quite off putting."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":483.0,"endTime":484.98,"body":"For someone that"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":483.0,"endTime":484.98,"body":"is listening to us"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":484.98,"endTime":489.42,"body":"and how can I make"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":484.98,"endTime":489.42,"body":"my content accessible."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":489.42,"endTime":491.52,"body":"I think all these tools"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":491.52,"endTime":496.08,"body":"and I think the difficult"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":491.52,"endTime":496.08,"body":"question is where I start."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":496.08,"endTime":498.09,"body":"So, Susi where do I start?"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":498.09,"endTime":499.83,"body":"Okay I think"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":498.09,"endTime":499.83,"body":"one of the things for me"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":499.83,"endTime":502.11,"body":"and a little bit Neil"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":499.83,"endTime":502.11,"body":"like you were saying"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":502.11,"endTime":504.75,"body":"about how we are actually"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":502.11,"endTime":504.75,"body":"training accessibility."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":505.27,"endTime":509.72,"body":"I think if you, it's almost"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":505.27,"endTime":509.72,"body":"this is great fantastic"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":509.72,"endTime":511.05,"body":"if you have someone"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":509.72,"endTime":511.05,"body":"who actually wants"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":511.05,"endTime":512.31,"body":"to make something assessable."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":512.31,"endTime":515.25,"body":"But really it's still"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":512.31,"endTime":515.25,"body":"a huge piece of work"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":515.25,"endTime":519.15,"body":"to do that kind of advocacy"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":515.25,"endTime":519.15,"body":"as why are we doing this,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":519.15,"endTime":524.4,"body":"why is it important and I think"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":519.15,"endTime":524.4,"body":"in the training that I deliver,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":524.4,"endTime":527.71,"body":"one of the, as part"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":524.4,"endTime":527.71,"body":"of the understanding,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":527.71,"endTime":530.97,"body":"as part of making it"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":527.71,"endTime":530.97,"body":"really come to life for people"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":530.97,"endTime":534.42,"body":"is doing that advocacy,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":530.97,"endTime":534.42,"body":"doing the why is this important"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":534.42,"endTime":537.77,"body":"and then I think that is"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":534.42,"endTime":537.77,"body":"its first piece of the puzzle."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":537.77,"endTime":540.4,"body":"For me the second piece"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":537.77,"endTime":540.4,"body":"of the puzzle to understand"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":540.4,"endTime":541.64,"body":"how to make something accessible"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":541.64,"endTime":543.32,"body":"or why you're doing it"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":541.64,"endTime":543.32,"body":"is to understand"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":543.32,"endTime":545.21,"body":"a bit more about"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":543.32,"endTime":545.21,"body":"assistive technology"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":545.21,"endTime":548.47,"body":"because so many of the web"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":545.21,"endTime":548.47,"body":"content accessibility guidelines"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":548.47,"endTime":550.78,"body":"are there to help us make,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":548.47,"endTime":550.78,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":551.37,"endTime":554.29,"body":"specifically to help people who"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":551.37,"endTime":554.29,"body":"are using assistive technology."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":554.29,"endTime":557.77,"body":"If you don't understand"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":554.29,"endTime":557.77,"body":"very much about screen readers"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":557.77,"endTime":559.37,"body":"or screen magnifiers"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":559.9,"endTime":562.05,"body":"then it's very difficult"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":559.9,"endTime":562.05,"body":"to understand,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":562.05,"endTime":563.73,"body":"you can follow the guidelines,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":563.73,"endTime":566.19,"body":"but if you understand"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":563.73,"endTime":566.19,"body":"why you're doing it for me"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":566.19,"endTime":569.49,"body":"that is a really important"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":566.19,"endTime":569.49,"body":"missing piece of the puzzle."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":569.49,"endTime":572.51,"body":"And then to try and make it,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":569.49,"endTime":572.51,"body":"the next thing"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":572.51,"endTime":575.37,"body":"I think to address to try"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":572.51,"endTime":575.37,"body":"and break it down."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":575.37,"endTime":577.95,"body":"So, when you look at the web"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":575.37,"endTime":577.95,"body":"content accessibility islands"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":577.95,"endTime":579.61,"body":"or you look at the book"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":579.61,"endTime":581.29,"body":"the web content"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":579.61,"endTime":581.29,"body":"accessibility guidelines,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":581.29,"endTime":584.13,"body":"divided into our core"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":581.29,"endTime":584.13,"body":"principles,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":584.13,"endTime":587.49,"body":"literally is you know"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":584.13,"endTime":587.49,"body":"a great long list of you know"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":587.49,"endTime":591.63,"body":"50, if it's"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":587.49,"endTime":591.63,"body":"A, AA or 78 guidelines"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":591.63,"endTime":594.6,"body":"that you are"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":591.63,"endTime":594.6,"body":"trying to implement."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":594.6,"endTime":598.04,"body":"So, for me it's trying to break"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":594.6,"endTime":598.04,"body":"it down really"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":598.04,"endTime":602.7,"body":"and make it you know make it"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":598.04,"endTime":602.7,"body":"more accessible for everybody."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":602.7,"endTime":606.28,"body":"So, it's one of the things"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":602.7,"endTime":606.28,"body":"that I start off with training"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":606.28,"endTime":609.57,"body":"is just breaking it down into"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":606.28,"endTime":609.57,"body":"four different access needs."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":609.57,"endTime":612.75,"body":"So, you know it's very"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":609.57,"endTime":612.75,"body":"oversimplified in a way"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":612.75,"endTime":615.05,"body":"but just breaking it down"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":612.75,"endTime":615.05,"body":"to vision,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":615.05,"endTime":618.7,"body":"hearing, cognitive and motor"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":615.05,"endTime":618.7,"body":"is at least a good"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":618.7,"endTime":622.29,"body":"starting point where people can"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":618.7,"endTime":622.29,"body":"then begin to understand okay,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":622.29,"endTime":624.75,"body":"so if I want to make"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":622.29,"endTime":624.75,"body":"something accessible"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":625.31,"endTime":627.05,"body":"don't just focus on everything,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":627.05,"endTime":629.15,"body":"I need"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":627.05,"endTime":629.15,"body":"to do for a screen reader user"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":629.15,"endTime":630.93,"body":"which is very, very common."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":630.93,"endTime":633.09,"body":"That is when people think about"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":630.93,"endTime":633.09,"body":"accessibility,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":633.09,"endTime":635.439,"body":"that is one of the kind of myths"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":633.09,"endTime":635.439,"body":"we often have,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":636.2,"endTime":638.87,"body":"it's only for people"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":636.2,"endTime":638.87,"body":"who have vision access needs."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":638.87,"endTime":641.43,"body":"So really, it's breaking"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":638.87,"endTime":641.43,"body":"that down and realising"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":641.43,"endTime":643.79,"body":"that actually there are"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":641.43,"endTime":643.79,"body":"quite straightforward things"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":643.79,"endTime":646.16,"body":"that we can do"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":643.79,"endTime":646.16,"body":"that actually can,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":646.93,"endTime":650.29,"body":"means that it can be accessible"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":646.93,"endTime":650.29,"body":"for a wide range of people."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":650.29,"endTime":652.589,"body":"So, I think that is"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":650.29,"endTime":652.589,"body":"the starting point for me."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":655.36,"endTime":658.31,"body":"So, I am really glad"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":655.36,"endTime":658.31,"body":"that you mentioned"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":658.31,"endTime":659.95,"body":"that it's not just about"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":659.95,"endTime":661.61,"body":"making it"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":659.95,"endTime":661.61,"body":"compatible with screen readers."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":661.61,"endTime":664.34,"body":"Although that is"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":661.61,"endTime":664.34,"body":"one of the most obvious"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":664.34,"endTime":665.71,"body":"and significant challenges"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":665.71,"endTime":667.31,"body":"that we face"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":665.71,"endTime":667.31,"body":"with learning 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process"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":689.61,"endTime":692.4,"body":"is quite often"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":692.4,"endTime":697.0,"body":"deliberatively cognitively"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":692.4,"endTime":697.0,"body":"inaccessible and ambiguous."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":697.0,"endTime":699.77,"body":"So, for example,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":697.0,"endTime":699.77,"body":"with multiple choice questions"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":700.71,"endTime":702.46,"body":"that they write questions"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":700.71,"endTime":702.46,"body":"in such a way"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":702.46,"endTime":705.91,"body":"as to be deliberately ambiguous"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":702.46,"endTime":705.91,"body":"which is actually really,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":705.91,"endTime":708.52,"body":"really difficult for someone"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":705.91,"endTime":708.52,"body":"like me"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":708.52,"endTime":710.97,"body":"who will sit there"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":708.52,"endTime":710.97,"body":"pondering about"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":710.97,"endTime":714.23,"body":"the meaning of the different"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":710.97,"endTime":714.23,"body":"statements in the questions"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":714.23,"endTime":717.68,"body":"when, if you assessed it"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":714.23,"endTime":717.68,"body":"in a different way,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":717.68,"endTime":719.8,"body":"clearly have absorbed"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":717.68,"endTime":719.8,"body":"the knowledge."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":719.8,"endTime":724.29,"body":"So how do we cater for some of"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":719.8,"endTime":724.29,"body":"that stuff in learning design?"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":724.83,"endTime":728.82,"body":"Okay. So, I think,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":724.83,"endTime":728.82,"body":"and I think again when,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":728.82,"endTime":731.07,"body":"obviously the web content"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":728.82,"endTime":731.07,"body":"accessibility guidelines"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":731.07,"endTime":733.67,"body":"are very often criticised"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":731.07,"endTime":733.67,"body":"for not going into"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":734.64,"endTime":737.22,"body":"looking at the cognitive access"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":734.64,"endTime":737.22,"body":"needs in enough depth"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":737.22,"endTime":738.45,"body":"and I think they have,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":738.45,"endTime":741.47,"body":"maybe with the next version"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":738.45,"endTime":741.47,"body":"there, they have addressed that."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":741.47,"endTime":745.76,"body":"There is still enough in the web"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":741.47,"endTime":745.76,"body":"accessibility guidelines"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":745.76,"endTime":749.44,"body":"which mean that people"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":745.76,"endTime":749.44,"body":"can be thinking about things"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":749.44,"endTime":750.91,"body":"and doing things"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":749.44,"endTime":750.91,"body":"in slightly different way."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":750.91,"endTime":754.45,"body":"So again, coming back"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":750.91,"endTime":754.45,"body":"to the training that we do."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":755.63,"endTime":758.66,"body":"One of the things that we do"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":755.63,"endTime":758.66,"body":"is we have a case study"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":758.66,"endTime":762.75,"body":"which comes from the book"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":758.66,"endTime":762.75,"body":"and that is somebody who has so,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":763.76,"endTime":765.58,"body":"his history"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":763.76,"endTime":765.58,"body":"when he was at school,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":765.58,"endTime":767.96,"body":"he had a learning disability,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":767.96,"endTime":772.36,"body":"and he also has chronic"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":767.96,"endTime":772.36,"body":"pain issues as well."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":772.36,"endTime":774.53,"body":"And he is a learning designer"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":772.36,"endTime":774.53,"body":"and developer."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":774.53,"endTime":776.72,"body":"And so having his case study"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":776.72,"endTime":779.06,"body":"and giving"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":776.72,"endTime":779.06,"body":"the first-hand experience"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":779.06,"endTime":780.78,"body":"of how exactly the type"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":779.06,"endTime":780.78,"body":"of things"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":780.78,"endTime":782.49,"body":"that he struggles with."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":782.49,"endTime":785.68,"body":"So, for, he particularly"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":782.49,"endTime":785.68,"body":"pulls out the fact that he,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":786.73,"endTime":788.62,"body":"the frustration"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":786.73,"endTime":788.62,"body":"that a lot of people feel"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":788.62,"endTime":790.25,"body":"with the type of things"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":788.62,"endTime":790.25,"body":"that you were saying."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":790.25,"endTime":792.06,"body":"You know, multiple choice."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":792.06,"endTime":795.6,"body":"For him that has"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":792.06,"endTime":795.6,"body":"a very profound effect"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":795.6,"endTime":800.02,"body":"because it triggers a lot"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":795.6,"endTime":800.02,"body":"of the negative experiences"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":800.02,"endTime":802.15,"body":"that he had at school"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":800.02,"endTime":802.15,"body":"around learning."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":802.15,"endTime":804.52,"body":"It also then kind of triggers"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":802.15,"endTime":804.52,"body":"that he,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":805.63,"endTime":807.6,"body":"it immediately makes him"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":805.63,"endTime":807.6,"body":"more stressed."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":807.6,"endTime":808.81,"body":"It makes him,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":808.81,"endTime":812.38,"body":"he realises that he,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":808.81,"endTime":812.38,"body":"the things like adding 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triggers"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":844.35,"endTime":848.65,"body":"all of the negative emotions"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":848.65,"endTime":850.52,"body":"that he used to have."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":848.65,"endTime":850.52,"body":"So, he also,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":851.12,"endTime":855.81,"body":"well he picks up things"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":851.12,"endTime":855.81,"body":"like having shuffling questions."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":855.81,"endTime":857.76,"body":"So, if he has to do"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":855.81,"endTime":857.76,"body":"a compliance test"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":857.76,"endTime":860.41,"body":"and then he has a bank"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":857.76,"endTime":860.41,"body":"of questions"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":860.41,"endTime":862.17,"body":"and he then gets some wrong."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":862.17,"endTime":864.22,"body":"He has no feedback"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":862.17,"endTime":864.22,"body":"on the answer."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":864.22,"endTime":865.55,"body":"Then he has done them again"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":865.55,"endTime":867.99,"body":"and they are all shuffled"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":865.55,"endTime":867.99,"body":"in a different order"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":867.99,"endTime":870.21,"body":"and sometimes"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":867.99,"endTime":870.21,"body":"he will have a question"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":870.21,"endTime":871.91,"body":"and then"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":870.21,"endTime":871.91,"body":"the answers are shuffled."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":872.72,"endTime":878.23,"body":"For him that has huge profound"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":872.72,"endTime":878.23,"body":"effects on how he is able to"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":878.23,"endTime":880.09,"body":"and also it really brings out"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":881.01,"endTime":882.47,"body":"as learning designers"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":881.01,"endTime":882.47,"body":"and developers,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":882.47,"endTime":886.74,"body":"we really have a responsibility"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":882.47,"endTime":886.74,"body":"to be empathic"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":886.74,"endTime":889.71,"body":"and be respectful"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":886.74,"endTime":889.71,"body":"of the way people are learning,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":889.71,"endTime":892.86,"body":"not just assuming that this is"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":889.71,"endTime":892.86,"body":"the way we have always done."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":892.86,"endTime":894.96,"body":"We've always had a bank"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":892.86,"endTime":894.96,"body":"of 50 questions,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":894.96,"endTime":896.46,"body":"we're going to shuffle 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things like"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":914.13,"endTime":916.84,"body":"we can you know we can make sure"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":914.13,"endTime":916.84,"body":"that our language."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":916.84,"endTime":918.59,"body":"We use plain language"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":918.59,"endTime":920.67,"body":"and make it"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":918.59,"endTime":920.67,"body":"as straightforward as possible."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":920.67,"endTime":925.15,"body":"So, there is always a balance"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":920.67,"endTime":925.15,"body":"I think between understanding"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":925.15,"endTime":927.08,"body":"that you know the real-life"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":925.15,"endTime":927.08,"body":"situation of people"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":927.08,"endTime":929.97,"body":"who maybe are involved"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":927.08,"endTime":929.97,"body":"in compliance 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something that they"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1016.56,"endTime":1021.14,"body":"have decided to victimise me."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1021.14,"endTime":1027.85,"body":"But as a user of these products"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1021.14,"endTime":1027.85,"body":"or you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1027.85,"endTime":1031.79,"body":"I find that they had"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1027.85,"endTime":1031.79,"body":"almost designed to trip you up"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1032.5,"endTime":1035.11,"body":"and whereas they should be"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1032.5,"endTime":1035.11,"body":"designed to discover"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1035.11,"endTime":1036.99,"body":"whether or not"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1035.11,"endTime":1036.99,"body":"you have the knowledge"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1036.99,"endTime":1038.58,"body":"and there is a difference"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1038.58,"endTime":1042.51,"body":"and so I think"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1038.58,"endTime":1042.51,"body":"that that changing mindset"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1042.51,"endTime":1046.99,"body":"of how you create the assessment"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1042.51,"endTime":1046.99,"body":"process is really important"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1046.99,"endTime":1051.46,"body":"because if yes"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1046.99,"endTime":1051.46,"body":"we probably nailed how we"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1052.45,"endTime":1054.27,"body":"or at least nailed the knowledge"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1052.45,"endTime":1054.27,"body":"of how we can"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1054.27,"endTime":1056.52,"body":"make stuff interoperable"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1054.27,"endTime":1056.52,"body":"with assistive tech."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1057.23,"endTime":1058.74,"body":"I don't think"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1057.23,"endTime":1058.74,"body":"we have fully nailed"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1058.74,"endTime":1066.19,"body":"how we can make good assessment"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1058.74,"endTime":1066.19,"body":"processes for people"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1066.19,"endTime":1068.94,"body":"with cognitive accessibility"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1066.19,"endTime":1068.94,"body":"needs to the same extent."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1068.94,"endTime":1070.21,"body":"I agree."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1070.21,"endTime":1073.58,"body":"So, when you say we have"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1070.21,"endTime":1073.58,"body":"nailed it who is you say is we?"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1073.58,"endTime":1075.79,"body":"Is that your organisation or?"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1076.43,"endTime":1078.92,"body":"No, I think in general,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1078.92,"endTime":1082.78,"body":"in terms of the web content"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1078.92,"endTime":1082.78,"body":"accessibility guidelines,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1082.78,"endTime":1084.01,"body":"the accessibility industry."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1084.01,"endTime":1086.22,"body":"We know how to make stuff"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1084.01,"endTime":1086.22,"body":"interoperable"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1086.22,"endTime":1087.69,"body":"with assistive tech."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1087.69,"endTime":1095.85,"body":"I don't think we know as well"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1087.69,"endTime":1095.85,"body":"how to create assessments"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1095.85,"endTime":1100.99,"body":"that are fully accessible"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1095.85,"endTime":1100.99,"body":"for people"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1100.99,"endTime":1104.37,"body":"with a wide variety of"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1100.99,"endTime":1104.37,"body":"cognitive accessibility needs."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1104.37,"endTime":1105.57,"body":"I completely agree with you."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1105.57,"endTime":1108.86,"body":"And I think sometimes"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1105.57,"endTime":1108.86,"body":"it is just that idea of maybe,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1108.86,"endTime":1113.95,"body":"it is that idea of accessibility"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1108.86,"endTime":1113.95,"body":"being a journey"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1113.95,"endTime":1116.68,"body":"rather than destination and then"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1113.95,"endTime":1116.68,"body":"just learning as we go along."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1116.68,"endTime":1119.73,"body":"So sometimes maybe"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1116.68,"endTime":1119.73,"body":"the idea of giving people"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1120.35,"endTime":1122.64,"body":"maybe different ways"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1120.35,"endTime":1122.64,"body":"of testing it."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1122.64,"endTime":1125.09,"body":"I think you know"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1122.64,"endTime":1125.09,"body":"that opportunities"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1125.09,"endTime":1126.29,"body":"for different options"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1126.29,"endTime":1129.35,"body":"is something that you see"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1126.29,"endTime":1129.35,"body":"much more in Higher Education"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1129.35,"endTime":1133.04,"body":"rather than in a lot of,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1129.35,"endTime":1133.04,"body":"although the same tools"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1133.04,"endTime":1136.41,"body":"we are used for creative content"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1133.04,"endTime":1136.41,"body":"are used across the board,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1136.41,"endTime":1140.15,"body":"a lot of the assessment things"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1136.41,"endTime":1140.15,"body":"we are doing talking about"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1140.15,"endTime":1141.58,"body":"are very much workplace learning"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1141.58,"endTime":1144.86,"body":"and they tend to be"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1141.58,"endTime":1144.86,"body":"very much the compliance side."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1148.57,"endTime":1153.64,"body":"So, with so many tools"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1148.57,"endTime":1153.64,"body":"in the market"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1153.64,"endTime":1156.43,"body":"and all the newcomers"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1153.64,"endTime":1156.43,"body":"we also see"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1156.43,"endTime":1159.52,"body":"that there is a grow"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1156.43,"endTime":1159.52,"body":"in terms of automation"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1159.52,"endTime":1162.98,"body":"and artificial intelligence"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1159.52,"endTime":1162.98,"body":"embedded in some of these tools."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1164.17,"endTime":1168.07,"body":"What role do you see AI"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1164.17,"endTime":1168.07,"body":"and automation"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1168.62,"endTime":1173.13,"body":"have in helping designers"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1168.62,"endTime":1173.13,"body":"to make content more accessible"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1173.13,"endTime":1175.57,"body":"or even to check if the content"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1173.13,"endTime":1175.57,"body":"is accessible"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1175.57,"endTime":1179.03,"body":"or help them in the process"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1175.57,"endTime":1179.03,"body":"of writing content"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1179.03,"endTime":1182.31,"body":"that allows them to make sure"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1179.03,"endTime":1182.31,"body":"that the language is accessible."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1182.31,"endTime":1185.21,"body":"What do you see the role of"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1182.31,"endTime":1185.21,"body":"this technologies in learning?"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1185.78,"endTime":1188.06,"body":"I think there is huge"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1185.78,"endTime":1188.06,"body":"potential there."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1189.04,"endTime":1192.11,"body":"That for me is"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1189.04,"endTime":1192.11,"body":"one of the frustrating things"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1192.11,"endTime":1195.52,"body":"that I think about our industry"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1192.11,"endTime":1195.52,"body":"is that you know,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1195.52,"endTime":1198.5,"body":"there is, we are still"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1195.52,"endTime":1198.5,"body":"having conversations now."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1199.79,"endTime":1203.41,"body":"Routinely having conversations"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1199.79,"endTime":1203.41,"body":"about you know eLearning"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1203.41,"endTime":1206.18,"body":"and people will be talking about"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1203.41,"endTime":1206.18,"body":"how to make drag"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1206.18,"endTime":1208.58,"body":"and drop accessible"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1206.18,"endTime":1208.58,"body":"and you know,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1208.58,"endTime":1210.51,"body":"when you see"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1208.58,"endTime":1210.51,"body":"the advances in technology"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1210.51,"endTime":1213.15,"body":"that are going across"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1210.51,"endTime":1213.15,"body":"the industry, it's incredibly"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1213.15,"endTime":1215.18,"body":"and I find it you know,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1213.15,"endTime":1215.18,"body":"and they are talking about"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1215.18,"endTime":1218.63,"body":"not being able to make you know"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1215.18,"endTime":1218.63,"body":"the tools accessible."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1218.63,"endTime":1222.0,"body":"You know that technology"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1218.63,"endTime":1222.0,"body":"is out there."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1222.0,"endTime":1225.8,"body":"It's just the frustrating thing"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1222.0,"endTime":1225.8,"body":"about this particular industry."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1226.54,"endTime":1230.51,"body":"It is that is why"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1226.54,"endTime":1230.51,"body":"it's so important"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1230.51,"endTime":1235.24,"body":"that learning and technology"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1230.51,"endTime":1235.24,"body":"is part of the accessibility."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1235.24,"endTime":1238.87,"body":"I don't have any, I am not"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1235.24,"endTime":1238.87,"body":"an expert on the technology."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1238.87,"endTime":1241.44,"body":"I see it as a huge potential"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1241.44,"endTime":1243.14,"body":"but it's really"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1241.44,"endTime":1243.14,"body":"how do we harness"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1244.18,"endTime":1247.52,"body":"what is going on"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1244.18,"endTime":1247.52,"body":"and other amazing things"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1247.52,"endTime":1250.51,"body":"that are going on in other"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1247.52,"endTime":1250.51,"body":"industries and harnessing them"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1250.51,"endTime":1252.99,"body":"and making sure"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1250.51,"endTime":1252.99,"body":"that that actually is brought"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1252.99,"endTime":1254.29,"body":"into learning and development"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1254.29,"endTime":1256.98,"body":"and we are not still having"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1254.29,"endTime":1256.98,"body":"conversations about the fact"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1256.98,"endTime":1260.18,"body":"that you can't make"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1256.98,"endTime":1260.18,"body":"a drag and drop accessible"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1260.18,"endTime":1261.67,"body":"or what we should"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1260.18,"endTime":1261.67,"body":"be doing about it,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1261.67,"endTime":1265.15,"body":"you know when you see the most"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1261.67,"endTime":1265.15,"body":"incredible technology going on,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1265.66,"endTime":1269.97,"body":"you think well why aren't"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1265.66,"endTime":1269.97,"body":"the people who are doing,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1270.74,"endTime":1273.5,"body":"coming up with this"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1270.74,"endTime":1273.5,"body":"amazing technology realising"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1273.5,"endTime":1276.55,"body":"how important it is"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1273.5,"endTime":1276.55,"body":"to get people in the learning"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1276.55,"endTime":1279.85,"body":"LND industry and the learning"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1276.55,"endTime":1279.85,"body":"tech industry on board"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1280.37,"endTime":1281.73,"body":"right from the very beginning"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1281.73,"endTime":1285.69,"body":"rather than"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1281.73,"endTime":1285.69,"body":"let's forget about it"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1285.69,"endTime":1287.51,"body":"and then shoe horn it in"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1285.69,"endTime":1287.51,"body":"at the end."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1287.51,"endTime":1291.58,"body":"So yeah, as I say"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1287.51,"endTime":1291.58,"body":"I'm not a real expert"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1291.58,"endTime":1293.51,"body":"on the technology"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1291.58,"endTime":1293.51,"body":"side of things."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1293.51,"endTime":1296.16,"body":"But I think certainly"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1293.51,"endTime":1296.16,"body":"there is huge potential there."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1298.0,"endTime":1300.66,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1298.0,"endTime":1300.66,"body":"I think that you know"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1301.86,"endTime":1304.71,"body":"we frequently see"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1301.86,"endTime":1304.71,"body":"the accessibility dongle."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1304.71,"endTime":1307.56,"body":"You plug it in"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1304.71,"endTime":1307.56,"body":"at the end and bolt on thing"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1307.56,"endTime":1311.2,"body":"and we really don't need"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1307.56,"endTime":1311.2,"body":"to be doing"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1311.2,"endTime":1315.31,"body":"that as we renew these tools"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1311.2,"endTime":1315.31,"body":"and redesign them,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1315.84,"endTime":1318.94,"body":"except that with all technology"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1315.84,"endTime":1318.94,"body":"you know"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1318.94,"endTime":1320.29,"body":"there is"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1318.94,"endTime":1320.29,"body":"established stuff out there."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1320.29,"endTime":1323.7,"body":"We can't just throw away"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1320.29,"endTime":1323.7,"body":"our legacy tech"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1323.7,"endTime":1327.96,"body":"or our legacy"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1323.7,"endTime":1327.96,"body":"learning materials either"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1327.96,"endTime":1331.65,"body":"because it takes time"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1327.96,"endTime":1331.65,"body":"to create this stuff."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1331.65,"endTime":1334.89,"body":"So, we'll be on a journey"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1331.65,"endTime":1334.89,"body":"of iterative improvements"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1334.89,"endTime":1336.7,"body":"for quite some time to come in."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1336.7,"endTime":1338.9,"body":"But I do think"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1336.7,"endTime":1338.9,"body":"there is also a tension,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1338.9,"endTime":1343.52,"body":"not just between the knowledge"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1338.9,"endTime":1343.52,"body":"of how to implement stuff"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1343.52,"endTime":1349.16,"body":"but even the tension between"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1343.52,"endTime":1349.16,"body":"pedagogy and accessibility"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1349.16,"endTime":1355.37,"body":"because we had one learning"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1349.16,"endTime":1355.37,"body":"provider that was insistent"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1355.37,"endTime":1359.5,"body":"on drag and drop implementation"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1355.37,"endTime":1359.5,"body":"in a particular way"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1359.5,"endTime":1362.14,"body":"where we had shown them"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1359.5,"endTime":1362.14,"body":"an accessible way of doing it"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1362.14,"endTime":1364.739,"body":"and we said we can't do it"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1362.14,"endTime":1364.739,"body":"that way because it's not"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1365.98,"endTime":1368.14,"body":"and then you're thinking"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1365.98,"endTime":1368.14,"body":"hold on a second this"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1368.14,"endTime":1370.45,"body":"is now becoming you know"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1370.45,"endTime":1374.22,"body":"sort of very much"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1370.45,"endTime":1374.22,"body":"a sort of closed mindset."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1374.22,"endTime":1380.46,"body":"And so how do we, I mean are you"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1374.22,"endTime":1380.46,"body":"finding that people are open"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1380.46,"endTime":1382.18,"body":"to finding new ways"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1380.46,"endTime":1382.18,"body":"of doing things"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1382.18,"endTime":1384.2,"body":"or do you think it's still"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1382.18,"endTime":1384.2,"body":"a case of winning hearts"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1384.2,"endTime":1386.34,"body":"and minds"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1384.2,"endTime":1386.34,"body":"to convert people"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1387.16,"endTime":1390.209,"body":"to being accepting of changing"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1387.16,"endTime":1390.209,"body":"the way they need to do stuff."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1391.57,"endTime":1393.49,"body":"I think the winning hearts"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1391.57,"endTime":1393.49,"body":"and minds"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1393.49,"endTime":1397.25,"body":"is still a really important"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1397.25,"endTime":1399.88,"body":"piece of the jigsaw"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1397.25,"endTime":1399.88,"body":"that is missing."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1399.88,"endTime":1403.89,"body":"So it's kind of like, as I say,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1399.88,"endTime":1403.89,"body":"a lot of the talks"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1403.89,"endTime":1407.99,"body":"that I do are about you know"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1403.89,"endTime":1407.99,"body":"the myth busting and it is,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1407.99,"endTime":1411.01,"body":"I find it you know"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1407.99,"endTime":1411.01,"body":"really when you,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1411.01,"endTime":1413.49,"body":"in comparison"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1411.01,"endTime":1413.49,"body":"to what you see going on"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1413.49,"endTime":1415.57,"body":"in the general"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1413.49,"endTime":1415.57,"body":"accessibility community,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1415.57,"endTime":1419.62,"body":"it is disheartening to feel"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1415.57,"endTime":1419.62,"body":"that we are especially"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1419.62,"endTime":1423.61,"body":"maybe two or three years ago"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1419.62,"endTime":1423.61,"body":"really you know the attitudes"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1423.61,"endTime":1426.06,"body":"and the opinions to making"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1423.61,"endTime":1426.06,"body":"things accessible"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1426.06,"endTime":1427.93,"body":"were just really,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1427.93,"endTime":1431.03,"body":"I felt they were a long way"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1427.93,"endTime":1431.03,"body":"behind you know"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1431.03,"endTime":1433.84,"body":"other industries."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1431.03,"endTime":1433.84,"body":"So, I think that is you know,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1433.84,"endTime":1438.52,"body":"there is still that kind of"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1433.84,"endTime":1438.52,"body":"missing piece"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1438.52,"endTime":1440.67,"body":"that needs to be done."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1438.52,"endTime":1440.67,"body":"It is that advocacy."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1441.36,"endTime":1444.3,"body":"And also, it's obviously"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1441.36,"endTime":1444.3,"body":"from a business point of view,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1445.03,"endTime":1447.53,"body":"this is great for your business."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1445.03,"endTime":1447.53,"body":"It still is that."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1448.2,"endTime":1450.04,"body":"You know, I still have"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1448.2,"endTime":1450.04,"body":"conversations with clients"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1450.04,"endTime":1452.44,"body":"where they say well,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1450.04,"endTime":1452.44,"body":"we have got our supply"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1452.44,"endTime":1455.039,"body":"and we know they are accessible"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1452.44,"endTime":1455.039,"body":"and so that is fine."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1455.85,"endTime":1457.61,"body":"I'm like okay that is fine."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1458.98,"endTime":1461.22,"body":"Have you done any testing"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1458.98,"endTime":1461.22,"body":"just to make sure"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1461.22,"endTime":1463.51,"body":"and then it turns out"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1461.22,"endTime":1463.51,"body":"actually that their supply"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1463.51,"endTime":1467.18,"body":"even though it's in the contract"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1463.51,"endTime":1467.18,"body":"it's saying yeah,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1467.18,"endTime":1471.26,"body":"we are accessible,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1467.18,"endTime":1471.26,"body":"all the same issues"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1471.26,"endTime":1474.13,"body":"but they are still"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1471.26,"endTime":1474.13,"body":"being supplied with content"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1474.13,"endTime":1477.9,"body":"that is not accessible"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1474.13,"endTime":1477.9,"body":"to Work Life 2.1,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1477.9,"endTime":1480.25,"body":"A and AA standards"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1477.9,"endTime":1480.25,"body":"as it has said?"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1480.25,"endTime":1484.33,"body":"So, it's almost like"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1480.25,"endTime":1484.33,"body":"if someone can get it right"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1484.33,"endTime":1488.55,"body":"and someone can show"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1484.33,"endTime":1488.55,"body":"the benefits of getting it right"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1488.55,"endTime":1491.55,"body":"then I think that will trickle"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1488.55,"endTime":1491.55,"body":"down into the industry."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1491.55,"endTime":1494.98,"body":"So, I personally think that"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1491.55,"endTime":1494.98,"body":"there are a lot of people"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1494.98,"endTime":1498.05,"body":"like me at grass roots level."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1494.98,"endTime":1498.05,"body":"So, I think the advantage"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1498.05,"endTime":1499.88,"body":"that we have as learning"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1498.05,"endTime":1499.88,"body":"designers and developers"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1499.88,"endTime":1502.9,"body":"is that we are generally very"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1499.88,"endTime":1502.9,"body":"passionate about what we do."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1504.09,"endTime":1509.26,"body":"We want to create effective and"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1504.09,"endTime":1509.26,"body":"engaging learning experiences."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1509.26,"endTime":1511.92,"body":"So, for me why wouldn't we,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1511.92,"endTime":1513.77,"body":"why would we be doing that"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1511.92,"endTime":1513.77,"body":"and wanting?"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1513.77,"endTime":1516.9,"body":"Why would we think it was"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1513.77,"endTime":1516.9,"body":"acceptable to be excluding"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1518.12,"endTime":1523.23,"body":"statistics variable"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1518.12,"endTime":1523.23,"body":"like 12 to 26% of our audience?"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1523.23,"endTime":1526.19,"body":"You know, so from"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1523.23,"endTime":1526.19,"body":"a grass roots level"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1526.19,"endTime":1528.1,"body":"I think there are more"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1526.19,"endTime":1528.1,"body":"and more people"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1528.1,"endTime":1530.81,"body":"who are beginning"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1528.1,"endTime":1530.81,"body":"to think you know,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1530.81,"endTime":1532.18,"body":"it's not, I need to do this."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1532.18,"endTime":1535.65,"body":"I really genuinely think,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1532.18,"endTime":1535.65,"body":"this should be accessible."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1535.65,"endTime":1537.57,"body":"Quite often a lot of people find"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1535.65,"endTime":1537.57,"body":"I think"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1537.57,"endTime":1541.33,"body":"then it's the blocker of oh well"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1537.57,"endTime":1541.33,"body":"that is going to cost more money"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1541.33,"endTime":1544.4,"body":"and we don't have the resources"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1541.33,"endTime":1544.4,"body":"to do it in our organisation"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1544.4,"endTime":1547.32,"body":"which is part of the reason"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1544.4,"endTime":1547.32,"body":"that I wanted to write the book"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1547.32,"endTime":1550.23,"body":"because there are"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1547.32,"endTime":1550.23,"body":"a lot of people"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1550.23,"endTime":1552.75,"body":"working in big organisations."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1552.75,"endTime":1554.89,"body":"They might be working"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1552.75,"endTime":1554.89,"body":"as freelancers"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1554.89,"endTime":1556.94,"body":"where they are part of a team"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1556.94,"endTime":1558.93,"body":"and you're"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1556.94,"endTime":1558.93,"body":"the instructional designer"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1558.93,"endTime":1560.57,"body":"you've got someone"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1558.93,"endTime":1560.57,"body":"who does the graphics,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1560.57,"endTime":1562.27,"body":"you've got someone"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1560.57,"endTime":1562.27,"body":"who does the development."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1562.27,"endTime":1566.39,"body":"But there are a lot of just"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1562.27,"endTime":1566.39,"body":"one man an organisation."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1566.39,"endTime":1570.67,"body":"Especially in public sector."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1566.39,"endTime":1570.67,"body":"You know a really small team"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1570.67,"endTime":1572.62,"body":"or just one person"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1570.67,"endTime":1572.62,"body":"working on their own"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1573.15,"endTime":1574.73,"body":"and they are"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1573.15,"endTime":1574.73,"body":"without the support."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1574.73,"endTime":1577.23,"body":"So at least one of the reasons"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1574.73,"endTime":1577.23,"body":"for writing the book"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1577.23,"endTime":1580.32,"body":"is that everybody"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1577.23,"endTime":1580.32,"body":"at grass roots level"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1580.32,"endTime":1582.68,"body":"is that idea"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1580.32,"endTime":1582.68,"body":"of democratising it,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1582.68,"endTime":1585.42,"body":"you didn't have to be"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1582.68,"endTime":1585.42,"body":"an accessibility expert."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1585.42,"endTime":1588.59,"body":"So you may not want"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1585.42,"endTime":1588.59,"body":"to be following every single"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1588.59,"endTime":1590.6,"body":"one of the accessibility"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1588.59,"endTime":1590.6,"body":"content guidelines,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1590.6,"endTime":1595.18,"body":"if you're starting small you"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1590.6,"endTime":1595.18,"body":"can actually just do something"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1595.18,"endTime":1597.99,"body":"that helps you yourself to feel"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1597.99,"endTime":1600.25,"body":"that you are making your"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1597.99,"endTime":1600.25,"body":"learning content as accessible"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1600.25,"endTime":1603.77,"body":"as you can but from there,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1600.25,"endTime":1603.77,"body":"as I see it,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1603.77,"endTime":1606.56,"body":"grass roots level"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1603.77,"endTime":1606.56,"body":"I see a really strong,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1606.56,"endTime":1608.63,"body":"really you know"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1606.56,"endTime":1608.63,"body":"and people I'm training"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1608.63,"endTime":1610.18,"body":"and people"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1608.63,"endTime":1610.18,"body":"I'm doing webinars for."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1610.18,"endTime":1613.97,"body":"It is always"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1610.18,"endTime":1613.97,"body":"a lot of positivity,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1613.97,"endTime":1616.68,"body":"a lot of passion around it"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1613.97,"endTime":1616.68,"body":"and you know"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1616.68,"endTime":1619.86,"body":"and that really translates"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1616.68,"endTime":1619.86,"body":"into you know"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1619.86,"endTime":1622.45,"body":"a feeling that there is"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1619.86,"endTime":1622.45,"body":"kind of a movement growing."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1622.45,"endTime":1624.63,"body":"However, I still think then"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1624.63,"endTime":1627.05,"body":"it's that kind of blocker"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1624.63,"endTime":1627.05,"body":"of we need the industry"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1627.05,"endTime":1629.98,"body":"as a whole to be supporting this"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1627.05,"endTime":1629.98,"body":"and organisations"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1630.6,"endTime":1634.88,"body":"as well to be you know"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1630.6,"endTime":1634.88,"body":"how you actually implement it"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1635.82,"endTime":1637.62,"body":"within a large organisation."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1637.62,"endTime":1641.43,"body":"So, I think that is still really"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1637.62,"endTime":1641.43,"body":"the kind of stumbling block."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1643.03,"endTime":1645.85,"body":"So, I think there are some"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1643.03,"endTime":1645.85,"body":"really significant points"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1645.85,"endTime":1647.82,"body":"that you raise there."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1645.85,"endTime":1647.82,"body":"So firstly,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1648.64,"endTime":1652.18,"body":"a lot of learning content"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1648.64,"endTime":1652.18,"body":"is user generated content."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1652.18,"endTime":1658.03,"body":"So, it's that those tiny teams"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1652.18,"endTime":1658.03,"body":"or its actually people"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1658.03,"endTime":1661.22,"body":"creating a PowerPoint that then"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1658.03,"endTime":1661.22,"body":"gets thrown into the machine"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1661.22,"endTime":1664.58,"body":"to be spat out"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1661.22,"endTime":1664.58,"body":"as a learning module."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1665.64,"endTime":1667.24,"body":"Quite often."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1668.21,"endTime":1672.83,"body":"So, it's finding ways to get"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1668.21,"endTime":1672.83,"body":"this embedded into the work flow"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1672.83,"endTime":1675.33,"body":"and as you mentioned before,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1672.83,"endTime":1675.33,"body":"ATAG,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1675.33,"endTime":1679.06,"body":"which is the Authoring Tools"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1675.33,"endTime":1679.06,"body":"Accessibility Guidelines,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1679.06,"endTime":1682.27,"body":"is much less well known"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1679.06,"endTime":1682.27,"body":"and much less well understood"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1682.27,"endTime":1684.33,"body":"but hugely important"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1684.33,"endTime":1687.44,"body":"because it's that bit"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1684.33,"endTime":1687.44,"body":"that gets it into the work flow"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1687.44,"endTime":1690.4,"body":"that nudges people saying hey,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1687.44,"endTime":1690.4,"body":"have you done this,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1690.4,"endTime":1694.64,"body":"hey you need to do that that can"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1690.4,"endTime":1694.64,"body":"really make a huge difference."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1696.62,"endTime":1700.16,"body":"And then I guess the other thing"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1696.62,"endTime":1700.16,"body":"is actually prioritisation"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1700.16,"endTime":1705.77,"body":"because we had this huge corpus"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1700.16,"endTime":1705.77,"body":"of inaccessible content"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1705.77,"endTime":1707.63,"body":"that is not going to"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1705.77,"endTime":1707.63,"body":"go away anytime soon."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1707.63,"endTime":1709.37,"body":"So how do we,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1709.37,"endTime":1711.45,"body":"what are the things"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1709.37,"endTime":1711.45,"body":"that we want to prioritise."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1711.45,"endTime":1713.85,"body":"I would say there are a few"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1711.45,"endTime":1713.85,"body":"that are obvious."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1714.69,"endTime":1715.95,"body":"Mandatory training."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1715.95,"endTime":1720.58,"body":"Where someone is told that"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1715.95,"endTime":1720.58,"body":"if you don't do it,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1720.58,"endTime":1724.99,"body":"you're going to get marked down"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1720.58,"endTime":1724.99,"body":"on your appraisals for example."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1725.87,"endTime":1727.19,"body":"Or even lose your job."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1727.19,"endTime":1728.39,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1728.39,"endTime":1730.52,"body":"So, you would become"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1728.39,"endTime":1730.52,"body":"noncompliant through"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1730.52,"endTime":1733.21,"body":"no fault of your own."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1730.52,"endTime":1733.21,"body":"Those are the kinds of things"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1733.21,"endTime":1736.49,"body":"that organisations"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1733.21,"endTime":1736.49,"body":"need to fix first."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1736.49,"endTime":1738.87,"body":"But what are the things"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1736.49,"endTime":1738.87,"body":"that follow on from that?"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1738.87,"endTime":1740.58,"body":"What are the things"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1738.87,"endTime":1740.58,"body":"that you would say"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1740.58,"endTime":1745.27,"body":"then should be high up"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1740.58,"endTime":1745.27,"body":"on the priority list?"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1746.27,"endTime":1748.57,"body":"I don't know even before"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1746.27,"endTime":1748.57,"body":"mandatory training,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1749.33,"endTime":1751.85,"body":"the other thing that's really"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1749.33,"endTime":1751.85,"body":"important I think"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1751.85,"endTime":1754.75,"body":"for workplace training"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1751.85,"endTime":1754.75,"body":"is basically on boarding."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1754.75,"endTime":1757.79,"body":"So you, for me"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1754.75,"endTime":1757.79,"body":"that is where you know"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1757.79,"endTime":1761.21,"body":"and I have kind of like heard"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1757.79,"endTime":1761.21,"body":"experiences of people"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1762.0,"endTime":1763.799,"body":"actually again"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1762.0,"endTime":1763.799,"body":"someone at Tech Share"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1764.65,"endTime":1766.94,"body":"I was trying to get,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1764.65,"endTime":1766.94,"body":"he was a screen reader user"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1766.94,"endTime":1771.36,"body":"and I was trying to get some"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1766.94,"endTime":1771.36,"body":"more experience you know to hear"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1771.36,"endTime":1774.27,"body":"what his experiences had been"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1771.36,"endTime":1774.27,"body":"and he was explaining to me"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1774.27,"endTime":1778.11,"body":"that for his on boarding"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1774.27,"endTime":1778.11,"body":"training for an organisation"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1778.11,"endTime":1780.64,"body":"that was committed enough"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1778.11,"endTime":1780.64,"body":"to accessibility"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1780.64,"endTime":1783.12,"body":"to send him to the Tech"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1780.64,"endTime":1783.12,"body":"Share Pro conference"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1783.12,"endTime":1784.98,"body":"and to have lots of other"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1783.12,"endTime":1784.98,"body":"delegates there,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1784.98,"endTime":1788.38,"body":"this organisation was obviously"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1784.98,"endTime":1788.38,"body":"committed to accessibility"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1788.38,"endTime":1792.08,"body":"but for his on board training"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1788.38,"endTime":1792.08,"body":"he needed to have his manager"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1792.08,"endTime":1794.93,"body":"sitting next to him reading out"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1792.08,"endTime":1794.93,"body":"his training"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1794.93,"endTime":1796.62,"body":"because it was not accessible"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1796.62,"endTime":1799.67,"body":"and I said oh how long have"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1796.62,"endTime":1799.67,"body":"you been at the organisation"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1799.67,"endTime":1801.51,"body":"thinking"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1799.67,"endTime":1801.51,"body":"he's been there for a few years"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1801.51,"endTime":1803.84,"body":"he said"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1801.51,"endTime":1803.84,"body":"this was in March of last year."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1804.46,"endTime":1806.06,"body":"So, I think for me,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1806.73,"endTime":1809.48,"body":"that is the disconnect"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1806.73,"endTime":1809.48,"body":"between organisations."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1809.48,"endTime":1811.75,"body":"So, we can"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1809.48,"endTime":1811.75,"body":"get accessibility right"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1812.45,"endTime":1814.33,"body":"and obviously it's a lot more,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1815.28,"endTime":1818.1,"body":"it's important how people are"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1815.28,"endTime":1818.1,"body":"understanding about the you"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1818.1,"endTime":1822.66,"body":"know getting people within the"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1818.1,"endTime":1822.66,"body":"workforce with disabilities"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1822.66,"endTime":1823.86,"body":"and making sure"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1823.86,"endTime":1827.9,"body":"that their recruitment"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1823.86,"endTime":1827.9,"body":"process is accessible."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1827.9,"endTime":1832.25,"body":"So, the really great progress"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1827.9,"endTime":1832.25,"body":"and then for me the on boarding"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1832.25,"endTime":1834.57,"body":"is when that is"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1832.25,"endTime":1834.57,"body":"where the learning,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1834.57,"endTime":1836.17,"body":"that's where it falls apart."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1836.8,"endTime":1839.55,"body":"How actually committed"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1836.8,"endTime":1839.55,"body":"are you to accessibility"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1839.55,"endTime":1841.83,"body":"if you have had"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1839.55,"endTime":1841.83,"body":"a fantastic experience"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1841.83,"endTime":1845.37,"body":"and your recruitment"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1841.83,"endTime":1845.37,"body":"has been accessible"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1845.37,"endTime":1847.31,"body":"and then you have"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1845.37,"endTime":1847.31,"body":"your on-boarding train"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1847.31,"endTime":1850.43,"body":"does not have captions on it"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1847.31,"endTime":1850.43,"body":"or you're using a screen reader"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1850.43,"endTime":1852.23,"body":"and you need to have"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1850.43,"endTime":1852.23,"body":"your manager"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1852.23,"endTime":1854.99,"body":"read out your learning for you."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1852.23,"endTime":1854.99,"body":"All of the,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1854.99,"endTime":1858.88,"body":"so many things that it could be"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1854.99,"endTime":1858.88,"body":"if it's not accessible."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1858.88,"endTime":1861.27,"body":"You know all of that hearing,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1858.88,"endTime":1861.27,"body":"cognitive,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1862.0,"endTime":1871.31,"body":"the motor, the vision,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1862.0,"endTime":1871.31,"body":"could be all of those."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1871.31,"endTime":1873.84,"body":"So, if your learning"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1871.31,"endTime":1873.84,"body":"is not accessible for me"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1873.84,"endTime":1876.86,"body":"it's the kind of on boarding"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1873.84,"endTime":1876.86,"body":"is the real proof"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1876.86,"endTime":1880.41,"body":"of whether an organisation"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1876.86,"endTime":1880.41,"body":"has thought about accessibility."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1880.41,"endTime":1882.78,"body":"It's not just kind of and again"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1883.49,"endTime":1886.71,"body":"it's that journey"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1883.49,"endTime":1886.71,"body":"verses destination."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1886.71,"endTime":1888.28,"body":"You know obviously things"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1888.28,"endTime":1890.47,"body":"will not always go"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1888.28,"endTime":1890.47,"body":"right in the process;"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1890.47,"endTime":1891.89,"body":"you're not going to have"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1890.47,"endTime":1891.89,"body":"everything right."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1891.89,"endTime":1894.42,"body":"But it's that for me"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1891.89,"endTime":1894.42,"body":"that on boarding"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1895.01,"endTime":1898.65,"body":"is a hugely important part"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1895.01,"endTime":1898.65,"body":"because you know you have got"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1898.65,"endTime":1901.76,"body":"to make someone feel"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1898.65,"endTime":1901.76,"body":"part of the organisation."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1901.76,"endTime":1904.3,"body":"That is the whole purpose"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1901.76,"endTime":1904.3,"body":"of doing on boarding"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1905.09,"endTime":1908.09,"body":"is that you know"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1905.09,"endTime":1908.09,"body":"these are our values."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1908.09,"endTime":1910.27,"body":"You know, this is what"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1908.09,"endTime":1910.27,"body":"we believe as an organisation."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1910.27,"endTime":1913.28,"body":"If it's not accessible"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1910.27,"endTime":1913.28,"body":"there is just a disconnect"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1913.28,"endTime":1916.43,"body":"between actually what"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1913.28,"endTime":1916.43,"body":"you're saying is your policy"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1916.43,"endTime":1918.53,"body":"and what actually in reality"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1918.53,"endTime":1922.49,"body":"is what someone with access"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1918.53,"endTime":1922.49,"body":"needs often has to face."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1923.12,"endTime":1925.37,"body":"So, I think on boarding"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1923.12,"endTime":1925.37,"body":"is really important"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1925.37,"endTime":1930.04,"body":"and then I think all of the kind"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1925.37,"endTime":1930.04,"body":"of development you know again,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1930.04,"endTime":1932.0,"body":"I suppose it comes back"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1930.04,"endTime":1932.0,"body":"to that empathy"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1932.0,"endTime":1935.42,"body":"and to that showing"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1932.0,"endTime":1935.42,"body":"people respect."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1935.42,"endTime":1937.02,"body":"If you genuinely want to,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1937.72,"endTime":1940.02,"body":"you know"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1937.72,"endTime":1940.02,"body":"if you are genuinely committed"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1940.02,"endTime":1941.82,"body":"to progressing your staff"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1941.82,"endTime":1943.77,"body":"and allowing them"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1941.82,"endTime":1943.77,"body":"to achieve their potential"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1943.77,"endTime":1947.82,"body":"and then surely you need"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1943.77,"endTime":1947.82,"body":"to make sure that the learning"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1947.82,"endTime":1949.18,"body":"that you provide"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1947.82,"endTime":1949.18,"body":"to allow them"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1949.18,"endTime":1952.59,"body":"to do any kind of professional"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1949.18,"endTime":1952.59,"body":"development is accessible"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1952.59,"endTime":1955.0,"body":"as well because otherwise"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1952.59,"endTime":1955.0,"body":"it's that kind of disconnect"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1955.0,"endTime":1958.23,"body":"between what you say"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1955.0,"endTime":1958.23,"body":"you actually believe in"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1958.23,"endTime":1959.8,"body":"and actually the reality of it."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1959.8,"endTime":1963.27,"body":"So, I think those probably"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":1959.8,"endTime":1963.27,"body":"are the two areas for me."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1964.82,"endTime":1971.34,"body":"We have been discussing"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1964.82,"endTime":1971.34,"body":"talking about the compliance,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1971.34,"endTime":1974.12,"body":"about you know mandatory"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1971.34,"endTime":1974.12,"body":"training,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1976.54,"endTime":1978.83,"body":"training is a unique opportunity"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1978.83,"endTime":1980.61,"body":"because people have"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1978.83,"endTime":1980.61,"body":"to pay attention"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1980.61,"endTime":1982.21,"body":"to what they are doing."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1983.23,"endTime":1986.34,"body":"At the same time, I feel that"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1983.23,"endTime":1986.34,"body":"sometimes organisations"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1986.34,"endTime":1987.71,"body":"miss the fact"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1987.71,"endTime":1990.64,"body":"that that needs to be something"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1987.71,"endTime":1990.64,"body":"that people enjoy doing"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1991.44,"endTime":1993.69,"body":"and sometimes we might"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1991.44,"endTime":1993.69,"body":"be developing training"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1993.69,"endTime":1998.24,"body":"that oh I have to do this again"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1993.69,"endTime":1998.24,"body":"and just the fact that you see"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1998.24,"endTime":2003.16,"body":"that you are already afraid"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1998.24,"endTime":2003.16,"body":"of going there"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":2003.16,"endTime":2006.07,"body":"because you're going to remember"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":2003.16,"endTime":2006.07,"body":"the experience from last year."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":2006.07,"endTime":2007.28,"body":"That was not great."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2007.28,"endTime":2008.98,"body":"We have all experienced"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2007.28,"endTime":2008.98,"body":"that yeah."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":2009.63,"endTime":2012.84,"body":"So, in this journey"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":2009.63,"endTime":2012.84,"body":"to make it accessible,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":2012.84,"endTime":2014.33,"body":"how you make sure"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":2012.84,"endTime":2014.33,"body":"that in the end"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":2014.33,"endTime":2017.65,"body":"that people really enjoy"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":2014.33,"endTime":2017.65,"body":"what they are doing"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":2017.65,"endTime":2021.44,"body":"when they are doing those"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":2017.65,"endTime":2021.44,"body":"modules receiving those training"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":2021.44,"endTime":2025.37,"body":"and then that's when it actually"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":2021.44,"endTime":2025.37,"body":"works because you know"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":2025.37,"endTime":2027.719,"body":"you can do something"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":2025.37,"endTime":2027.719,"body":"that you are forced to do."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":2028.49,"endTime":2031.73,"body":"You do it just to fill in"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":2028.49,"endTime":2031.73,"body":"all the boxes but in the end,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":2031.73,"endTime":2034.64,"body":"you might not remember"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":2031.73,"endTime":2034.64,"body":"what is happening there."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":2034.64,"endTime":2037.35,"body":"How can we make sure"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":2034.64,"endTime":2037.35,"body":"it's accessible"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":2037.35,"endTime":2039.46,"body":"and at the same time"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":2037.35,"endTime":2039.46,"body":"it's actually useful"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":2039.46,"endTime":2041.06,"body":"and people really learn?"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2041.58,"endTime":2044.89,"body":"I think that is a whole"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2041.58,"endTime":2044.89,"body":"question for our industry"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2044.89,"endTime":2048.76,"body":"that we have been debating"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2044.89,"endTime":2048.76,"body":"for years and years and years"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2048.76,"endTime":2052.72,"body":"and it's like sometimes"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2048.76,"endTime":2052.72,"body":"there are quick fixes."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2052.72,"endTime":2054.63,"body":"Let's do a little bit"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2052.72,"endTime":2054.63,"body":"of gamification."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2054.63,"endTime":2058.52,"body":"You know, what is the new kid"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2054.63,"endTime":2058.52,"body":"on the block at this conference,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2058.52,"endTime":2061.319,"body":"is it going to be gamification,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2058.52,"endTime":2061.319,"body":"is it going to be AR VR."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2062.84,"endTime":2064.96,"body":"Is it micro learning?"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2062.84,"endTime":2064.96,"body":"Is that going to work?"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2064.96,"endTime":2067.87,"body":"I think for me,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2064.96,"endTime":2067.87,"body":"the only way I can answer"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2067.87,"endTime":2070.69,"body":"that is to say how I design"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2070.69,"endTime":2074.4,"body":"and develop learning"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2070.69,"endTime":2074.4,"body":"as an instructional designer."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2074.4,"endTime":2077.6,"body":"I think it is again for me"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2077.6,"endTime":2080.149,"body":"and I keep coming back"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2077.6,"endTime":2080.149,"body":"to this empathy and respect,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2081.11,"endTime":2086.66,"body":"understanding that everybody"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2081.11,"endTime":2086.66,"body":"is time poor that everybody,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2086.66,"endTime":2091.18,"body":"that nobody really to be fair"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2086.66,"endTime":2091.18,"body":"often wants to do"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2091.18,"endTime":2092.96,"body":"especially a piece"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2091.18,"endTime":2092.96,"body":"of compliance learning."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2092.96,"endTime":2096.54,"body":"But it's really making it"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2092.96,"endTime":2096.54,"body":"as relevant for me and again"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2096.54,"endTime":2099.04,"body":"that is a key theme"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2096.54,"endTime":2099.04,"body":"really in our industry,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2099.04,"endTime":2103.81,"body":"is making relevant as possible"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2099.04,"endTime":2103.81,"body":"to the experience of the person."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2103.81,"endTime":2107.57,"body":"So, you can see, sometimes"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2103.81,"endTime":2107.57,"body":"you can see a piece of training"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2107.57,"endTime":2111.45,"body":"that maybe has been sourced"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2107.57,"endTime":2111.45,"body":"externally and I am not saying"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2111.45,"endTime":2115.84,"body":"that is necessarily a bad thing"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2111.45,"endTime":2115.84,"body":"but if it can be you know,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2115.84,"endTime":2119.92,"body":"if it is you know made relevant"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2115.84,"endTime":2119.92,"body":"for a particular organisation,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2119.92,"endTime":2122.25,"body":"made bespoke so that it becomes"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2119.92,"endTime":2122.25,"body":"really relevant"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2122.25,"endTime":2125.92,"body":"and it is, everything is,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2122.25,"endTime":2125.92,"body":"you can see the purpose."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2125.92,"endTime":2128.17,"body":"What is in it for me"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2125.92,"endTime":2128.17,"body":"I think is the key thing"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2128.96,"endTime":2130.41,"body":"as a learning designer"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2128.96,"endTime":2130.41,"body":"and developer."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2130.41,"endTime":2132.85,"body":"If you're missing"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2130.41,"endTime":2132.85,"body":"that that is something"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2132.85,"endTime":2135.05,"body":"that I would always try"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2132.85,"endTime":2135.05,"body":"to put into a piece of learning"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2135.05,"endTime":2137.82,"body":"and get from the client"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2135.05,"endTime":2137.82,"body":"if I'm working with the client."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2137.82,"endTime":2139.96,"body":"What is it?"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2137.82,"endTime":2139.96,"body":"Why are they doing this?"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2139.96,"endTime":2142.13,"body":"What is the benefit for them"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2142.13,"endTime":2145.48,"body":"and making sure that is"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2142.13,"endTime":2145.48,"body":"interwoven all the way through?"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2145.48,"endTime":2147.28,"body":"I think that makes it."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2147.28,"endTime":2152.29,"body":"It's not always perfect"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2147.28,"endTime":2152.29,"body":"but at least that has some makes"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2152.29,"endTime":2154.77,"body":"it hopefully"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2152.29,"endTime":2154.77,"body":"a more positive experience"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2154.77,"endTime":2158.64,"body":"and then there are just things"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2154.77,"endTime":2158.64,"body":"like trying to make,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2158.64,"endTime":2160.27,"body":"again as an instructional"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2158.64,"endTime":2160.27,"body":"designer,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2160.27,"endTime":2162.25,"body":"trying to make something"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2160.27,"endTime":2162.25,"body":"that is,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2163.78,"endTime":2166.04,"body":"on the surface might seem"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2163.78,"endTime":2166.04,"body":"well actually"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2166.04,"endTime":2168.81,"body":"I can't really see how to make"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2166.04,"endTime":2168.81,"body":"that engaging and exciting."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2168.81,"endTime":2172.71,"body":"But quite often there is a way"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2168.81,"endTime":2172.71,"body":"of making it relevant for people"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2172.71,"endTime":2178.93,"body":"and trying to you know make"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2172.71,"endTime":2178.93,"body":"it make it more engaging really."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2178.93,"endTime":2182.97,"body":"So, I think that the key thing"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2178.93,"endTime":2182.97,"body":"for me about the accessibility"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2182.97,"endTime":2186.49,"body":"is that myth that we do still"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2182.97,"endTime":2186.49,"body":"have in the eLearning industry"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2186.49,"endTime":2189.89,"body":"LND that you can either"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2186.49,"endTime":2189.89,"body":"have accessible"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2189.89,"endTime":2191.49,"body":"or you can have interactive."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2192.09,"endTime":2197.07,"body":"So, it's that we still have"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2192.09,"endTime":2197.07,"body":"that harping back many years"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2197.07,"endTime":2198.69,"body":"to when we had"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2197.07,"endTime":2198.69,"body":"the accessible version"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2198.69,"endTime":2200.2,"body":"which was the PDF version."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2200.2,"endTime":2203.54,"body":"You had the shiny exciting"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2200.2,"endTime":2203.54,"body":"standard version."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2203.54,"endTime":2206.42,"body":"Then you had"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2203.54,"endTime":2206.42,"body":"the PDF accessible version."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2206.42,"endTime":2209.83,"body":"There is still the feeling there"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2206.42,"endTime":2209.83,"body":"and I still get that"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2209.83,"endTime":2211.66,"body":"from a lot of people"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2209.83,"endTime":2211.66,"body":"I'm talking to,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2211.66,"endTime":2213.84,"body":"if you make something"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2211.66,"endTime":2213.84,"body":"accessible you"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2213.84,"endTime":2217.08,"body":"immediately strip out"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2213.84,"endTime":2217.08,"body":"any interactivity."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2217.08,"endTime":2221.57,"body":"Any kind of visual."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2217.08,"endTime":2221.57,"body":"Anything that would be exciting"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2221.57,"endTime":2224.72,"body":"because they are still in that"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2221.57,"endTime":2224.72,"body":"mindset of well accessibility"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2224.72,"endTime":2226.04,"body":"means that it has to be,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2226.04,"endTime":2228.0,"body":"that a screen reader"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2226.04,"endTime":2228.0,"body":"can work it."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2228.0,"endTime":2231.23,"body":"So I think one of"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2228.0,"endTime":2231.23,"body":"the things is yes,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2231.23,"endTime":2233.27,"body":"there is that whole"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2231.23,"endTime":2233.27,"body":"bigger question"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2233.27,"endTime":2236.63,"body":"of making workplace learning"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2233.27,"endTime":2236.63,"body":"and all learning,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2236.63,"endTime":2239.75,"body":"making it engaging"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2236.63,"endTime":2239.75,"body":"and interesting"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2239.75,"endTime":2240.98,"body":"for people and relevant"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2240.98,"endTime":2243.2,"body":"but there is also"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2240.98,"endTime":2243.2,"body":"that wider question of"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2243.2,"endTime":2244.67,"body":"when you add accessibility"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2244.67,"endTime":2247.67,"body":"just make sure that you know"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2244.67,"endTime":2247.67,"body":"there is no reason why,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2247.67,"endTime":2249.85,"body":"if you understand"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2247.67,"endTime":2249.85,"body":"how to use the tool"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2249.85,"endTime":2252.17,"body":"and you can kind of,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2249.85,"endTime":2252.17,"body":"when we were talking Neil"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2252.17,"endTime":2254.29,"body":"about maybe thinking"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2252.17,"endTime":2254.29,"body":"in a different way"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2254.29,"endTime":2258.02,"body":"why the learning can't be as"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2254.29,"endTime":2258.02,"body":"interactive and as engaging as,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2258.57,"endTime":2259.87,"body":"like you were saying Neil again"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2259.87,"endTime":2262.02,"body":"coming back to our drag"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2259.87,"endTime":2262.02,"body":"and drops,"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2262.02,"endTime":2265.86,"body":"we do sometimes put in inter"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2262.02,"endTime":2265.86,"body":"activity for the sake of it."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2266.78,"endTime":2269.44,"body":"Let's click on this thing"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2266.78,"endTime":2269.44,"body":"and then this thing will happen."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2269.44,"endTime":2272.04,"body":"That is not necessarily"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2269.44,"endTime":2272.04,"body":"a good experience"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2272.04,"endTime":2273.77,"body":"for someone who is using"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2272.04,"endTime":2273.77,"body":"assistive technology"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2273.77,"endTime":2275.87,"body":"but equally again"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2275.87,"endTime":2278.78,"body":"someone might thing you know"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2275.87,"endTime":2278.78,"body":"it's like the click"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2278.78,"endTime":2280.67,"body":"next to the get"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2278.78,"endTime":2280.67,"body":"to the next slide"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2280.67,"endTime":2283.42,"body":"you were saying Neil"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2280.67,"endTime":2283.42,"body":"for our PowerPoint"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2283.42,"endTime":2285.48,"body":"that has then been"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2283.42,"endTime":2285.48,"body":"turned into ours."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2285.48,"endTime":2289.47,"body":"As long as they are clicking"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2285.48,"endTime":2289.47,"body":"then they are interacting."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2291.11,"endTime":2293.83,"body":"It just does not work like that."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2291.11,"endTime":2293.83,"body":"So, it's yeah."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2293.83,"endTime":2296.39,"body":"I think there are"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2293.83,"endTime":2296.39,"body":"lots of different issues"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2296.39,"endTime":2297.99,"body":"there to address."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2298.81,"endTime":2301.12,"body":"Thank you. We have come"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2298.81,"endTime":2301.12,"body":"into an end of our time."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2301.12,"endTime":2305.2,"body":"I just need to thank our friends"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2301.12,"endTime":2305.2,"body":"at My Clear Text,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2305.2,"endTime":2307.33,"body":"for keeping us"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2305.2,"endTime":2307.33,"body":"captioned and accessible"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2308.44,"endTime":2311.41,"body":"and I really look forward"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2308.44,"endTime":2311.41,"body":"to you joining us on Twitter."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2311.41,"endTime":2312.79,"body":"Thank you, very much, Suzi."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2312.79,"endTime":2314.58,"body":"Thanks a lot."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2312.79,"endTime":2314.58,"body":"Thanks for your time. Bye, bye."},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2314.58,"endTime":2316.51,"body":"Page"},{"speaker":"SUSI","startTime":2314.58,"endTime":2316.51,"body":"| 2"}]}