{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":1.84,"body":"This is a draft transcript"},{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":1.84,"body":"produced live at the event"},{"startTime":1.84,"endTime":4.34,"body":"and corrected for spelling"},{"startTime":1.84,"endTime":4.34,"body":"and basic errors."},{"startTime":4.34,"endTime":5.63,"body":"and will need to be checked"},{"startTime":4.34,"endTime":5.63,"body":"if you wish to publish it."},{"startTime":5.63,"endTime":6.83,"body":"AXSCHAT"},{"startTime":5.63,"endTime":6.83,"body":"Ian Hamilton"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":6.83,"endTime":8.03,"body":"Hello and welcome to Axschat."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":8.03,"endTime":9.68,"body":"I'm really glad that we're able"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":8.03,"endTime":9.68,"body":"to welcome back Ian Hamilton."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":9.68,"endTime":12.35,"body":"We were thinking that Ian"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":9.68,"endTime":12.35,"body":"is a regular here on Axschat"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":12.35,"endTime":15.08,"body":"and then we realised"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":12.35,"endTime":15.08,"body":"it's been six years."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":16.66,"endTime":19.48,"body":"So, we are all a little bit"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":16.66,"endTime":19.48,"body":"more portly,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":19.48,"endTime":23.36,"body":"our hair is greyer,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":19.48,"endTime":23.36,"body":"our beards are stublier."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":24.76,"endTime":26.43,"body":"Ian, it's great"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":24.76,"endTime":26.43,"body":"to have you back."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":26.43,"endTime":29.76,"body":"I think that when we talked,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":26.43,"endTime":29.76,"body":"first time around,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":30.35,"endTime":32.43,"body":"there were good things happening"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":30.35,"endTime":32.43,"body":"in the gaming industry"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":32.43,"endTime":34.4,"body":"but the gaming industry"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":34.4,"endTime":37.9,"body":"really has gone from the birth"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":34.4,"endTime":37.9,"body":"of accessibility"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":37.9,"endTime":42.43,"body":"as a topic to it being something"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":37.9,"endTime":42.43,"body":"companies compete on now,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":43.65,"endTime":46.31,"body":"within the space"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":43.65,"endTime":46.31,"body":"of a few short years"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":46.31,"endTime":49.14,"body":"and as a catalyst"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":46.31,"endTime":49.14,"body":"in that industry,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":49.14,"endTime":50.9,"body":"we are delighted"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":49.14,"endTime":50.9,"body":"to have you back."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":50.9,"endTime":54.95,"body":"So, tell us please"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":50.9,"endTime":54.95,"body":"a little bit for those"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":54.95,"endTime":57.46,"body":"that haven't been with us"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":54.95,"endTime":57.46,"body":"for the last six years,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":57.46,"endTime":59.7,"body":"a bit about your background"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":57.46,"endTime":59.7,"body":"and work"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":59.7,"endTime":61.45,"body":"that you're doing"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":59.7,"endTime":61.45,"body":"with GA Coms etc."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":62.91,"endTime":65.63,"body":"Yeah, so I'm"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":62.91,"endTime":65.63,"body":"an accessibility specialist"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":66.36,"endTime":67.94,"body":"in games specifically."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":67.94,"endTime":72.04,"body":"I've got background"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":67.94,"endTime":72.04,"body":"in web design, NUX before that."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":75.62,"endTime":79.88,"body":"I started kind of getting my"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":75.62,"endTime":79.88,"body":"indoctrination in accessibility"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":79.88,"endTime":84.42,"body":"whilst working at the BBC"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":79.88,"endTime":84.42,"body":"on their kits,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":84.42,"endTime":86.53,"body":"games and websites"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":84.42,"endTime":86.53,"body":"across both."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":87.89,"endTime":93.46,"body":"So, I was seeing how,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":87.89,"endTime":93.46,"body":"in the web industry,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":93.46,"endTime":96.42,"body":"there is very"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":93.46,"endTime":96.42,"body":"well-established standards"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":96.42,"endTime":98.74,"body":"and practices and disciplines"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":98.74,"endTime":100.4,"body":"and there really wasn't that"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":98.74,"endTime":100.4,"body":"in the game site."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":100.4,"endTime":103.24,"body":"So, that is where I started"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":100.4,"endTime":103.24,"body":"getting interested"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":103.24,"endTime":108.77,"body":"in accessibility was then"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":103.24,"endTime":108.77,"body":"in the BBC and over my time"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":108.77,"endTime":110.26,"body":"there it kind of evolved"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":108.77,"endTime":110.26,"body":"to the point"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":110.26,"endTime":113.55,"body":"where I had part of"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":110.26,"endTime":113.55,"body":"my working week set aside"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":113.55,"endTime":114.93,"body":"and actually part"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":113.55,"endTime":114.93,"body":"of my responsibilities"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":114.93,"endTime":119.39,"body":"was accessibility"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":114.93,"endTime":119.39,"body":"and then along came a time"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":119.39,"endTime":123.23,"body":"when BBC moved across"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":119.39,"endTime":123.23,"body":"the other side of the country."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":123.23,"endTime":124.5,"body":"I kind of moved with them"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":124.5,"endTime":126.86,"body":"so I had to look around"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":124.5,"endTime":126.86,"body":"for a new job."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":126.86,"endTime":129.4,"body":"By that point, accessibility"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":126.86,"endTime":129.4,"body":"was the aspect of my role"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":129.4,"endTime":130.98,"body":"that I enjoyed the most"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":130.98,"endTime":132.72,"body":"and wanted to go"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":130.98,"endTime":132.72,"body":"and find somewhere elsewhere"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":132.72,"endTime":135.17,"body":"where I could continue"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":132.72,"endTime":135.17,"body":"doing the same thing"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":135.17,"endTime":141.8,"body":"and the number of roles out"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":135.17,"endTime":141.8,"body":"there was zero, literally zero."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":142.34,"endTime":144.3,"body":"So, that was like"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":142.34,"endTime":144.3,"body":"a lightning bolt for me."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":144.3,"endTime":147.17,"body":"I had assumed sitting this"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":144.3,"endTime":147.17,"body":"little bubble of one company"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":147.17,"endTime":150.15,"body":"that everyone else had got"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":147.17,"endTime":150.15,"body":"their stuff sorted out."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":150.15,"endTime":151.41,"body":"But no, they hadn't."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":151.41,"endTime":153.7,"body":"So, that was a big"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":151.41,"endTime":153.7,"body":"wake up call for me"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":153.7,"endTime":157.41,"body":"and that was what pushing it"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":153.7,"endTime":157.41,"body":"into advocacy and awareness"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":157.41,"endTime":159.18,"body":"raising"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":157.41,"endTime":159.18,"body":"and like writing and speaking"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":159.18,"endTime":161.96,"body":"and working on guidelines"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":159.18,"endTime":161.96,"body":"and all that kind of stuff"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":163.15,"endTime":168.84,"body":"and that situation has now"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":163.15,"endTime":168.84,"body":"changed quite fundamentally."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":168.84,"endTime":170.17,"body":"This was a long time ago."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":170.17,"endTime":172.53,"body":"This was back in about"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":170.17,"endTime":172.53,"body":"ten years ago."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":173.8,"endTime":176.3,"body":"Even the last time"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":173.8,"endTime":176.3,"body":"I was on this show,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":177.17,"endTime":180.56,"body":"six years ago in 2016,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":180.56,"endTime":182.13,"body":"there were still"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":180.56,"endTime":182.13,"body":"no accessibility roles"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":182.13,"endTime":183.33,"body":"at all in gaming studies."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":183.33,"endTime":185.29,"body":"There were two gaming"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":183.33,"endTime":185.29,"body":"accessibility roles"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":185.29,"endTime":187.05,"body":"at all in gaming studios."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":187.05,"endTime":188.89,"body":"There were two gaming"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":187.05,"endTime":188.89,"body":"accessibility roles"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":188.89,"endTime":190.09,"body":"in existence,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":190.09,"endTime":194.53,"body":"which was Evan and Thompson"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":190.09,"endTime":194.53,"body":"and Bryce Johnson at Xbox"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":194.53,"endTime":195.99,"body":"but that was working"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":194.53,"endTime":195.99,"body":"on the accessibility"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":195.99,"endTime":198.79,"body":"on the Xbox platform"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":195.99,"endTime":198.79,"body":"rather than games themselves."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":199.85,"endTime":202.45,"body":"Fast forward from too"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":199.85,"endTime":202.45,"body":"six years ago to now,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":202.45,"endTime":204.72,"body":"there is now 70 people"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":204.72,"endTime":206.98,"body":"in fulltime dedicated"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":204.72,"endTime":206.98,"body":"accessibility roles"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":206.98,"endTime":208.54,"body":"in gaming studios"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":206.98,"endTime":208.54,"body":"and publishers."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":208.54,"endTime":211.11,"body":"There has been quite"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":208.54,"endTime":211.11,"body":"a phenomenal pace of change."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":217.13,"endTime":218.88,"body":"Ian, welcome back"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":217.13,"endTime":218.88,"body":"to the programme."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":219.86,"endTime":223.15,"body":"We always enjoy"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":219.86,"endTime":223.15,"body":"your work and so,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":223.15,"endTime":225.84,"body":"I've a really hard question"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":223.15,"endTime":225.84,"body":"for you Ian,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":225.84,"endTime":229.33,"body":"so, there is this thing"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":225.84,"endTime":229.33,"body":"that we are talking"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":229.33,"endTime":231.84,"body":"about brand new"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":229.33,"endTime":231.84,"body":"and very excited about it"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":231.84,"endTime":234.05,"body":"because it's just going"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":231.84,"endTime":234.05,"body":"to change everything"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":234.05,"endTime":236.8,"body":"and it's called"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":234.05,"endTime":236.8,"body":"the Metaverse, okay?"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":238.08,"endTime":242.17,"body":"So, I'm fascinated"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":238.08,"endTime":242.17,"body":"with what the gamers have done"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":242.17,"endTime":244.69,"body":"to our word technology wise"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":244.69,"endTime":248.58,"body":"because I hear people"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":244.69,"endTime":248.58,"body":"talking about this Metaverse"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":248.58,"endTime":250.03,"body":"and it's like okay,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":248.58,"endTime":250.03,"body":"I hear you,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":250.03,"endTime":251.57,"body":"but this is not"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":250.03,"endTime":251.57,"body":"a brand-new thing."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":251.57,"endTime":253.06,"body":"This is something"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":251.57,"endTime":253.06,"body":"that's already been done"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":253.06,"endTime":255.92,"body":"it's just the gamers now"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":253.06,"endTime":255.92,"body":"are insisting"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":255.92,"endTime":258.49,"body":"that this be accessible"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":255.92,"endTime":258.49,"body":"for everyone not all gamers"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":258.49,"endTime":260.289,"body":"but certainly leaders"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":258.49,"endTime":260.289,"body":"like you, Ian."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":261.19,"endTime":265.19,"body":"I was curious as your work"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":261.19,"endTime":265.19,"body":"as it has evolved."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":265.8,"endTime":269.82,"body":"How does it tie into now what"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":265.8,"endTime":269.82,"body":"we're doing with the metaverse?"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":269.82,"endTime":271.62,"body":"Which isn't that"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":269.82,"endTime":271.62,"body":"all about gaming"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":272.65,"endTime":277.06,"body":"or do I misunderstand what"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":272.65,"endTime":277.06,"body":"the Internet three is all about?"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":278.45,"endTime":281.34,"body":"Well, it's not"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":278.45,"endTime":281.34,"body":"about gaming per se,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":281.34,"endTime":285.34,"body":"it's about existing in"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":281.34,"endTime":285.34,"body":"and navigating"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":285.34,"endTime":288.22,"body":"in a virtual 3D environment"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":285.34,"endTime":288.22,"body":"which of course,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":288.22,"endTime":289.82,"body":"has lots in common"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":288.22,"endTime":289.82,"body":"with games."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":291.4,"endTime":292.88,"body":"So, there is"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":291.4,"endTime":292.88,"body":"a lot of good lessons"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":292.88,"endTime":295.54,"body":"that can be learned"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":292.88,"endTime":295.54,"body":"from the games industry"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":295.54,"endTime":300.25,"body":"especially when you've got"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":295.54,"endTime":300.25,"body":"companies that have five hundred"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":300.25,"endTime":305.79,"body":"or so really passionate"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":300.25,"endTime":305.79,"body":"skilled creator problem"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":305.79,"endTime":308.77,"body":"solvers throwing themselves"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":305.79,"endTime":308.77,"body":"at these kind of problems"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":308.77,"endTime":312.66,"body":"in games that have budgets so,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":308.77,"endTime":312.66,"body":"hundreds of millions of dollars."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":312.66,"endTime":313.93,"body":"That's a really"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":312.66,"endTime":313.93,"body":"valuable asset"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":313.93,"endTime":317.54,"body":"that not a lot of kind of tech"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":313.93,"endTime":317.54,"body":"start-ups have access to."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":317.54,"endTime":321.99,"body":"So, it's nice that people are"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":317.54,"endTime":321.99,"body":"able to kind of move sideways"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":321.99,"endTime":324.14,"body":"and theoretically"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":321.99,"endTime":324.14,"body":"you can look sideways"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":324.14,"endTime":329.08,"body":"to another similar"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":324.14,"endTime":329.08,"body":"and cross pollination going on"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":329.08,"endTime":331.47,"body":"and it's been exactly the same"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":329.08,"endTime":331.47,"body":"with the games industry"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":331.47,"endTime":333.16,"body":"and other industries"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":331.47,"endTime":333.16,"body":"as well."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":333.16,"endTime":334.96,"body":"Like game developers,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":334.96,"endTime":337.91,"body":"if they just shift"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":334.96,"endTime":337.91,"body":"their heads slightly to the side"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":337.91,"endTime":339.97,"body":"and look at some other"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":337.91,"endTime":339.97,"body":"screen-based industries,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":339.97,"endTime":342.57,"body":"there's all kind of"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":339.97,"endTime":342.57,"body":"wonderful lessons to be learned"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":342.57,"endTime":344.76,"body":"from things like captioning"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":342.57,"endTime":344.76,"body":"and audio description,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":344.76,"endTime":347.81,"body":"all that kind of stuff that's"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":344.76,"endTime":347.81,"body":"applicable to games as well."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":347.81,"endTime":350.7,"body":"I agree."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":347.81,"endTime":350.7,"body":"And I think the opportunity,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":350.7,"endTime":353.43,"body":"I keep saying when I'm talk"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":350.7,"endTime":353.43,"body":"about the Metaverse"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":353.43,"endTime":356.72,"body":"that they need to turn"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":353.43,"endTime":356.72,"body":"and look to the gamers"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":356.72,"endTime":358.66,"body":"because I think you know,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":358.66,"endTime":360.88,"body":"if the whole world is I'm going"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":358.66,"endTime":360.88,"body":"to be a digital twin"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":360.88,"endTime":363.74,"body":"and all that and it's just"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":360.88,"endTime":363.74,"body":"very interesting to me"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":363.74,"endTime":367.38,"body":"but I think the work that you"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":363.74,"endTime":367.38,"body":"and leaders like you have done,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":367.38,"endTime":370.14,"body":"to make sure games"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":367.38,"endTime":370.14,"body":"are accessible for everyone,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":370.7,"endTime":372.14,"body":"I think it lends itself"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":372.14,"endTime":373.84,"body":"to what we are trying"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":372.14,"endTime":373.84,"body":"to do with the Metaverse."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":373.84,"endTime":376.94,"body":"And I'm concerned that"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":373.84,"endTime":376.94,"body":"we are going to continue"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":376.94,"endTime":379.79,"body":"to make the same mistakes"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":376.94,"endTime":379.79,"body":"we've been making all along"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":379.79,"endTime":382.6,"body":"when we're dealing with"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":379.79,"endTime":382.6,"body":"technology and communications."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":382.6,"endTime":386.53,"body":"And I was talking to somebody"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":382.6,"endTime":386.53,"body":"about that not long ago"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":386.53,"endTime":390.98,"body":"and had said you yourself"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":386.53,"endTime":390.98,"body":"are going to fall off"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":391.99,"endTime":395.06,"body":"that bell shaped curve"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":391.99,"endTime":395.06,"body":"that we are designing for."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":395.06,"endTime":397.79,"body":"So, with the efforts"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":395.06,"endTime":397.79,"body":"that you've made,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":397.79,"endTime":400.89,"body":"and others have made in gaming"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":397.79,"endTime":400.89,"body":"to make gaming accessible"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":400.89,"endTime":402.49,"body":"to anyone that wants to game,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":402.49,"endTime":405.22,"body":"it seems like we need"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":402.49,"endTime":405.22,"body":"to take those design,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":405.84,"endTime":409.28,"body":"you know ideas, processes"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":405.84,"endTime":409.28,"body":"and pick them up"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":409.28,"endTime":411.67,"body":"and put them into"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":409.28,"endTime":411.67,"body":"the Metaverse conversations."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":411.67,"endTime":416.34,"body":"But do you see Ian that the"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":411.67,"endTime":416.34,"body":"two paths are crossing in a way"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":416.34,"endTime":418.74,"body":"because it seems like the people"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":418.74,"endTime":421.0,"body":"that are working"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":418.74,"endTime":421.0,"body":"on the Metaverse,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":422.01,"endTime":424.92,"body":"they seem to be a lot of it"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":422.01,"endTime":424.92,"body":"is still happening in a vacuum."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":424.92,"endTime":428.87,"body":"So, I was just wondering"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":424.92,"endTime":428.87,"body":"have you seen the industry move"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":428.87,"endTime":430.78,"body":"to getting the gamers"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":428.87,"endTime":430.78,"body":"more involved"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":430.78,"endTime":433.72,"body":"because I think that there is"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":430.78,"endTime":433.72,"body":"a lot of value in that?"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":436.07,"endTime":437.85,"body":"Honestly no,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":436.07,"endTime":437.85,"body":"I don't pay much attention"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":437.85,"endTime":439.11,"body":"to what happens"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":437.85,"endTime":439.11,"body":"in the Metaverse."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":439.11,"endTime":440.31,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":440.31,"endTime":441.95,"body":"It's not of much industry to me."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":441.95,"endTime":445.84,"body":"It's interesting because"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":441.95,"endTime":445.84,"body":"I would think you"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":445.84,"endTime":447.61,"body":"all would add"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":445.84,"endTime":447.61,"body":"a lot of value so,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":447.61,"endTime":451.19,"body":"I am fascinated"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":447.61,"endTime":451.19,"body":"that you're saying,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":451.19,"endTime":452.57,"body":"we're just going to stick,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":452.57,"endTime":454.34,"body":"you know, I'm putting"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":452.57,"endTime":454.34,"body":"words in your mouth"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":454.34,"endTime":457.63,"body":"but is there an opportunity"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":454.34,"endTime":457.63,"body":"for us"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":457.63,"endTime":461.95,"body":"to bring those"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":457.63,"endTime":461.95,"body":"two conversations together more"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":461.95,"endTime":467.25,"body":"and will there be benefit"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":461.95,"endTime":467.25,"body":"to our community by doing that"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":467.25,"endTime":469.95,"body":"and maybe I'm asking that"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":467.25,"endTime":469.95,"body":"to everybody, you know?"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":470.95,"endTime":474.54,"body":"But that's what I've been"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":470.95,"endTime":474.54,"body":"thinking but I honestly,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":474.54,"endTime":477.51,"body":"I'm not a gamer,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":474.54,"endTime":477.51,"body":"my kids are."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":477.51,"endTime":479.88,"body":"But Debra, you can even ask,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":479.88,"endTime":481.98,"body":"do we really need"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":479.88,"endTime":481.98,"body":"the Metaverse?"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":481.98,"endTime":485.85,"body":"Will it be as brilliant"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":481.98,"endTime":485.85,"body":"as people want it to be"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":485.85,"endTime":488.93,"body":"or just have"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":485.85,"endTime":488.93,"body":"its own space in corner"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":488.93,"endTime":491.33,"body":"like many other technologies"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":488.93,"endTime":491.33,"body":"that wouldn't work."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":492.35,"endTime":494.35,"body":"I think that could be"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":492.35,"endTime":494.35,"body":"more the case."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":494.35,"endTime":496.83,"body":"I don't think it's going"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":494.35,"endTime":496.83,"body":"to be as predominant so,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":496.83,"endTime":502.26,"body":"that's probably why some people"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":496.83,"endTime":502.26,"body":"might not have that interest"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":503.36,"endTime":506.11,"body":"as the VC"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":503.36,"endTime":506.11,"body":"is trying to push money"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":506.11,"endTime":508.59,"body":"and bringing investment"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":506.11,"endTime":508.59,"body":"to those organisations."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":508.59,"endTime":512.42,"body":"Yeah, that's exactly"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":508.59,"endTime":512.42,"body":"where I'm coming from."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":512.97,"endTime":514.89,"body":"Okay cool."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":512.97,"endTime":514.89,"body":"Go ahead, Ian,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":514.89,"endTime":516.96,"body":"I think I accidentally"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":514.89,"endTime":516.96,"body":"stepped on you, I'm sorry."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":516.96,"endTime":518.2,"body":"That's fine."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":518.2,"endTime":520.64,"body":"I'm just saying that's exactly"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":518.2,"endTime":520.64,"body":"the perspective"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":520.64,"endTime":522.0,"body":"that I come from,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":522.0,"endTime":523.89,"body":"I don't think that"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":522.0,"endTime":523.89,"body":"it's this great new paradigm"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":523.89,"endTime":526.77,"body":"that's going to completely"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":523.89,"endTime":526.77,"body":"transform how we live and work,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":526.77,"endTime":529.52,"body":"I think there are"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":526.77,"endTime":529.52,"body":"lots of people"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":529.52,"endTime":532.54,"body":"with a lot of money"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":529.52,"endTime":532.54,"body":"invest who want you to think"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":532.54,"endTime":534.29,"body":"that to get a return"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":532.54,"endTime":534.29,"body":"on their investment."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":534.29,"endTime":536.38,"body":"And you mentioned Facebook"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":534.29,"endTime":536.38,"body":"changing its name to Meta,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":536.38,"endTime":541.49,"body":"Facebook have haemorrhaged"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":536.38,"endTime":541.49,"body":"so much money from that."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":541.49,"endTime":543.09,"body":"Yeah, I think,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":543.09,"endTime":545.55,"body":"it will be exactly"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":543.09,"endTime":545.55,"body":"as Antonio is describing it,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":545.55,"endTime":547.65,"body":"it will be some"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":545.55,"endTime":547.65,"body":"interesting side show"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":547.65,"endTime":549.51,"body":"that some people use"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":547.65,"endTime":549.51,"body":"from time to time."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":549.51,"endTime":551.7,"body":"Remember when 3D TV"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":549.51,"endTime":551.7,"body":"was going to transform"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":551.7,"endTime":553.32,"body":"how we consume media,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":551.7,"endTime":553.32,"body":"you know?"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":555.19,"endTime":557.09,"body":"That's where I'm coming"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":555.19,"endTime":557.09,"body":"from that"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":557.09,"endTime":559.15,"body":"I don't think it's this"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":557.09,"endTime":559.15,"body":"huge new paradigm"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":559.15,"endTime":560.86,"body":"that's going to change"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":559.15,"endTime":560.86,"body":"how we live our lives."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":560.86,"endTime":562.14,"body":"But it's always the same,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":562.14,"endTime":563.64,"body":"going back to"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":562.14,"endTime":563.64,"body":"what you said earlier,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":563.64,"endTime":567.23,"body":"when some new technological"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":563.64,"endTime":567.23,"body":"innovation comes around,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":567.86,"endTime":572.25,"body":"people are so excited"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":567.86,"endTime":572.25,"body":"by the emergent potential"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":572.25,"endTime":573.85,"body":"of this new paradigm"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":574.44,"endTime":577.61,"body":"that they completely forget"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":574.44,"endTime":577.61,"body":"everything they already knew,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":577.61,"endTime":579.43,"body":"thinking this new thing"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":577.61,"endTime":579.43,"body":"is completely different"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":579.43,"endTime":581.22,"body":"and like nothing"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":579.43,"endTime":581.22,"body":"that has come before."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":581.22,"endTime":583.16,"body":"Actually, they usually"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":581.22,"endTime":583.16,"body":"are just a slight tweak"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":583.16,"endTime":584.4,"body":"to what has gone on"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":583.16,"endTime":584.4,"body":"before"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":584.4,"endTime":586.18,"body":"so a lot of what you already"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":584.4,"endTime":586.18,"body":"knew is still applicable,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":586.18,"endTime":588.02,"body":"but people seem to forget"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":586.18,"endTime":588.02,"body":"that in the race"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":588.02,"endTime":590.05,"body":"to the new shiny, you know?"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":591.99,"endTime":594.12,"body":"I still have my 3D glasses"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":594.12,"endTime":600.61,"body":"that I bought with my 3D TV"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":594.12,"endTime":600.61,"body":"that I've used precisely twice."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":602.11,"endTime":606.72,"body":"I watched the opening ceremony"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":602.11,"endTime":606.72,"body":"of the London 2012 Olympics,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":606.72,"endTime":608.57,"body":"and I watched Avatar,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":608.57,"endTime":611.14,"body":"and I had a headache"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":608.57,"endTime":611.14,"body":"after both experiences,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":611.14,"endTime":614.63,"body":"and they are being gathering"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":611.14,"endTime":614.63,"body":"dust in the cupboard ever since."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":614.63,"endTime":619.15,"body":"I think there are specific"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":614.63,"endTime":619.15,"body":"use cases"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":619.15,"endTime":624.95,"body":"where the virtual reality"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":619.15,"endTime":624.95,"body":"rather than the Metaverse"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":624.95,"endTime":626.4,"body":"because it's constrained,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":626.4,"endTime":630.42,"body":"it's like a mini verse"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":626.4,"endTime":630.42,"body":"will have utility,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":630.42,"endTime":632.39,"body":"but the last thing"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":630.42,"endTime":632.39,"body":"I want to do"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":632.39,"endTime":637.07,"body":"is spend eight hours"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":632.39,"endTime":637.07,"body":"a day with a headset on."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":637.98,"endTime":641.04,"body":"There is no joy in that."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":641.71,"endTime":644.45,"body":"I think that you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":641.71,"endTime":644.45,"body":"just to go to work"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":645.12,"endTime":651.42,"body":"and then the idea"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":645.12,"endTime":651.42,"body":"of having to walk"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":651.42,"endTime":653.34,"body":"in a virtual world"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":651.42,"endTime":653.34,"body":"between meetings"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":653.34,"endTime":656.17,"body":"and that whole, I have watched"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":653.34,"endTime":656.17,"body":"the number of times s"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":656.17,"endTime":658.01,"body":"where we have done things"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":656.17,"endTime":658.01,"body":"in the metaverse"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":658.01,"endTime":659.54,"body":"and there are all sorts"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":658.01,"endTime":659.54,"body":"of people around"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":659.54,"endTime":661.95,"body":"and they are all sort of"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":659.54,"endTime":661.95,"body":"bumping against walls"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":661.95,"endTime":663.16,"body":"and trying to navigate"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":663.16,"endTime":666.57,"body":"because actually they are"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":663.16,"endTime":666.57,"body":"sort of in their late middle age"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":666.57,"endTime":669.17,"body":"and they've forgotten"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":666.57,"endTime":669.17,"body":"how to use their WASD keys"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":669.17,"endTime":670.52,"body":"and you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":669.17,"endTime":670.52,"body":"it's a long time"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":670.52,"endTime":673.87,"body":"since they actually"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":670.52,"endTime":673.87,"body":"did anything immersive,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":675.69,"endTime":677.08,"body":"when you could just click"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":675.69,"endTime":677.08,"body":"on a link"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":677.08,"endTime":681.31,"body":"and turn into a Zoom call"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":677.08,"endTime":681.31,"body":"or a Team's meeting,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":681.31,"endTime":682.72,"body":"which are perfectly serviceable."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":682.72,"endTime":686.54,"body":"So, I think that Antonio,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":682.72,"endTime":686.54,"body":"you're right,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":686.54,"endTime":690.74,"body":"the case for it"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":686.54,"endTime":690.74,"body":"is really you know"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":690.74,"endTime":694.63,"body":"not necessarily there"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":690.74,"endTime":694.63,"body":"for the kind of investment"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":694.63,"endTime":696.38,"body":"that's going on and people"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":694.63,"endTime":696.38,"body":"are hyping it up"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":696.38,"endTime":699.14,"body":"because they really want"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":696.38,"endTime":699.14,"body":"to get their money back."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":700.21,"endTime":703.19,"body":"We've seen in the last week"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":700.21,"endTime":703.19,"body":"that Meta have made"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":703.89,"endTime":707.05,"body":"something like 13,000"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":703.89,"endTime":707.05,"body":"people redundant."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":709.48,"endTime":712.51,"body":"Some of that based"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":709.48,"endTime":712.51,"body":"on the haemorrhaging of cash"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":712.51,"endTime":715.03,"body":"because they've been chasing"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":712.51,"endTime":715.03,"body":"after the Metaverse dream."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":715.03,"endTime":717.07,"body":"Some of it because"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":715.03,"endTime":717.07,"body":"they over expanded"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":717.07,"endTime":719.66,"body":"because everyone was online"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":717.07,"endTime":719.66,"body":"during Covid"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":719.66,"endTime":722.04,"body":"and now people"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":719.66,"endTime":722.04,"body":"are quiet enjoying"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":722.04,"endTime":724.96,"body":"touching the flesh again"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":722.04,"endTime":724.96,"body":"and going to real events."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":724.96,"endTime":727.97,"body":"So, what is different"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":724.96,"endTime":727.97,"body":"about gaming?"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":727.97,"endTime":733.27,"body":"Why is it that gaming is this"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":727.97,"endTime":733.27,"body":"huge, huge, huge industry,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":733.27,"endTime":735.84,"body":"where people are still"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":733.27,"endTime":735.84,"body":"really engaged?"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":737.0,"endTime":738.42,"body":"What do you reel"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":737.0,"endTime":738.42,"body":"is the difference?"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":738.42,"endTime":741.31,"body":"Why do you enjoy"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":738.42,"endTime":741.31,"body":"working in gaming"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":741.31,"endTime":745.81,"body":"as opposed to being sceptical"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":741.31,"endTime":745.81,"body":"about the Metaverse?"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":745.81,"endTime":747.12,"body":"I know I've got my reasons,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":747.12,"endTime":749.019,"body":"but it would be good"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":747.12,"endTime":749.019,"body":"to hear from you."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":751.56,"endTime":753.93,"body":"Why I would choose to work"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":751.56,"endTime":753.93,"body":"in one to the other,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":753.93,"endTime":756.91,"body":"I think it's just the difference"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":753.93,"endTime":756.91,"body":"it makes to people's lives."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":756.91,"endTime":761.84,"body":"I mean, Metaverse is ostensibly"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":756.91,"endTime":761.84,"body":"about socialising."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":762.83,"endTime":765.87,"body":"Gaming is about"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":762.83,"endTime":765.87,"body":"socialising as well"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":765.87,"endTime":767.72,"body":"but in a much more"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":765.87,"endTime":767.72,"body":"enjoyable context."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":768.87,"endTime":772.93,"body":"So, the not just"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":768.87,"endTime":772.93,"body":"the socialising itself"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":772.93,"endTime":775.88,"body":"but the taking part in society"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":776.7,"endTime":780.94,"body":"that the huge footprints"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":776.7,"endTime":780.94,"body":"that gaming has in our culture"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":780.94,"endTime":784.01,"body":"and that has been"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":780.94,"endTime":784.01,"body":"a very, very long time"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":784.01,"endTime":787.92,"body":"since gaming overtook movies"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":784.01,"endTime":787.92,"body":"and all other screen medium."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":787.92,"endTime":790.4,"body":"If you add together,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":787.92,"endTime":790.4,"body":"all other screen media"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":790.4,"endTime":792.96,"body":"together you still don't"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":790.4,"endTime":792.96,"body":"get close"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":792.96,"endTime":795.78,"body":"to the value"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":792.96,"endTime":795.78,"body":"of the games industry."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":798.31,"endTime":799.7,"body":"So, I think that"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":798.31,"endTime":799.7,"body":"even if people"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":799.7,"endTime":803.17,"body":"who have no involvement"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":799.7,"endTime":803.17,"body":"in gaming at all,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":803.17,"endTime":805.069,"body":"if you relate"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":803.17,"endTime":805.069,"body":"to a block buster movie."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":806.04,"endTime":810.15,"body":"If a new Star Wars movie came"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":806.04,"endTime":810.15,"body":"out and someone said to you,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":810.15,"endTime":812.16,"body":"well actually"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":810.15,"endTime":812.16,"body":"you've got brown hair"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":812.16,"endTime":814.85,"body":"you're not allowed in that"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":812.16,"endTime":814.85,"body":"would be pretty rough right"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":814.85,"endTime":816.42,"body":"and that's what all"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":814.85,"endTime":816.42,"body":"your friends are doing,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":816.42,"endTime":817.62,"body":"all your friends"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":816.42,"endTime":817.62,"body":"are talking about."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":817.62,"endTime":819.34,"body":"It's plastered"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":817.62,"endTime":819.34,"body":"all over the billboards,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":819.34,"endTime":821.08,"body":"plastered all over the TV,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":821.08,"endTime":823.14,"body":"same kind of thing"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":821.08,"endTime":823.14,"body":"with that cultural footprint."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":823.14,"endTime":825.83,"body":"That makes it a big deal"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":823.14,"endTime":825.83,"body":"to be excluded from."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":825.83,"endTime":827.43,"body":"But the flip side of that,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":828.59,"endTime":830.16,"body":"it's a big deal"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":828.59,"endTime":830.16,"body":"to be included in as well."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":830.16,"endTime":834.26,"body":"It can be a powerful tool for"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":830.16,"endTime":834.26,"body":"social and cultural inclusion"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":834.26,"endTime":835.909,"body":"and participation"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":834.26,"endTime":835.909,"body":"in our society."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":838.1,"endTime":841.4,"body":"So, Ian I would like"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":838.1,"endTime":841.4,"body":"to have your opinion"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":841.4,"endTime":845.4,"body":"on the impact of the pandemic"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":841.4,"endTime":845.4,"body":"in the overall gaming industry."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":845.4,"endTime":848.19,"body":"We know that in terms"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":845.4,"endTime":848.19,"body":"of development,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":848.19,"endTime":853.2,"body":"we know that some brands opted"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":848.19,"endTime":853.2,"body":"not to releasing new products"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":853.2,"endTime":856.28,"body":"I'm talking about the consoles"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":853.2,"endTime":856.28,"body":"and other devices."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":856.93,"endTime":858.53,"body":"What impact have you observed"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":859.22,"endTime":861.85,"body":"that has caused"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":859.22,"endTime":861.85,"body":"what you might say,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":861.85,"endTime":864.29,"body":"caused a permanent change"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":861.85,"endTime":864.29,"body":"in the overall?"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":867.04,"endTime":868.39,"body":"What change has there been?"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":868.39,"endTime":871.54,"body":"Firstly, there is"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":868.39,"endTime":871.54,"body":"the immediate financial impact."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":872.52,"endTime":876.84,"body":"Whereas a lot of industries"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":872.52,"endTime":876.84,"body":"suffer quite a lot due to COVID,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":877.87,"endTime":879.99,"body":"in a similar way"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":877.87,"endTime":879.99,"body":"to what you were just saying"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":879.99,"endTime":881.98,"body":"about Facebook slash Meta,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":883.01,"endTime":885.68,"body":"when people were on lockdown,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":883.01,"endTime":885.68,"body":"they were playing games"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":885.68,"endTime":889.41,"body":"so the emergence of a lot of"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":885.68,"endTime":889.41,"body":"companies went up quite a bit."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":890.7,"endTime":894.09,"body":"That's coming back down again"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":890.7,"endTime":894.09,"body":"now for various reasons"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":894.09,"endTime":896.69,"body":"but that was"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":894.09,"endTime":896.69,"body":"an immediate impact."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":896.69,"endTime":901.27,"body":"Another one, the same"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":896.69,"endTime":901.27,"body":"with industries in general,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":901.27,"endTime":904.06,"body":"was the shift to working"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":901.27,"endTime":904.06,"body":"from home"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":905.3,"endTime":907.24,"body":"and also, kind of related"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":908.22,"endTime":911.36,"body":"and I assume this is the same"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":908.22,"endTime":911.36,"body":"in other industries as well,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":911.36,"endTime":914.43,"body":"was the impact that"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":911.36,"endTime":914.43,"body":"that had on user research."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":915.56,"endTime":917.99,"body":"So, companies that were"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":915.56,"endTime":917.99,"body":"previously reluctant"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":917.99,"endTime":921.86,"body":"to use research outside of"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":917.99,"endTime":921.86,"body":"the lab were now having to."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":921.86,"endTime":924.79,"body":"So, they were having to work out"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":921.86,"endTime":924.79,"body":"all their processes and methods"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":924.79,"endTime":926.66,"body":"and their like,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":928.74,"endTime":932.56,"body":"how NDA has covered it as well"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":928.74,"endTime":932.56,"body":"for having a sensitive stuff"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":932.56,"endTime":934.31,"body":"showing outside"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":932.56,"endTime":934.31,"body":"of the environment."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":935.24,"endTime":940.46,"body":"Just before COVID hit there"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":935.24,"endTime":940.46,"body":"was a game called Hyperdot"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":940.46,"endTime":942.92,"body":"which was an Indie game,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":942.92,"endTime":945.52,"body":"they did some nice"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":942.92,"endTime":945.52,"body":"accessibility stuff,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":946.32,"endTime":950.71,"body":"and they actually did"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":946.32,"endTime":950.71,"body":"their user research remotely"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":951.39,"endTime":955.28,"body":"which meant that they were"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":951.39,"endTime":955.28,"body":"then able to reach demographics"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":955.28,"endTime":958.36,"body":"that couldn't physically"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":955.28,"endTime":958.36,"body":"come into a lab."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":959.03,"endTime":962.82,"body":"It also meant that they were"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":959.03,"endTime":962.82,"body":"able to have a much easier time"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":962.82,"endTime":964.24,"body":"of reaching niche demographics"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":964.24,"endTime":967.02,"body":"because they have got"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":964.24,"endTime":967.02,"body":"a global pool of participants,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":967.02,"endTime":971.91,"body":"you know because that at the"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":967.02,"endTime":971.91,"body":"time was quite revolutionary,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":971.91,"endTime":973.92,"body":"whereas now it's standard"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":973.92,"endTime":976.43,"body":"whereas there are benefits"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":973.92,"endTime":976.43,"body":"that Hyperdot was seeing,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":976.43,"endTime":981.26,"body":"companies across the industry"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":976.43,"endTime":981.26,"body":"were able to realise"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":981.26,"endTime":985.18,"body":"those same benefits"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":981.26,"endTime":985.18,"body":"for accessibility as a research."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":986.42,"endTime":988.12,"body":"So, that has been"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":986.42,"endTime":988.12,"body":"a biggie for me,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":989.16,"endTime":990.91,"body":"the doors that"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":989.16,"endTime":990.91,"body":"it's actually opened"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":991.88,"endTime":994.429,"body":"to allow that greater"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":991.88,"endTime":994.429,"body":"engagement with the audience."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":999.01,"endTime":1001.75,"body":"One of the things"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":999.01,"endTime":1001.75,"body":"we talked way back"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1001.75,"endTime":1006.0,"body":"when was the fact that games"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1001.75,"endTime":1006.0,"body":"are meant to be difficult"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1006.53,"endTime":1013.25,"body":"and that part of the challenge"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1006.53,"endTime":1013.25,"body":"with accessibility"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1013.25,"endTime":1014.82,"body":"translating"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1013.25,"endTime":1014.82,"body":"into the gaming space"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1014.82,"endTime":1017.52,"body":"was you couldn't just take"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1014.82,"endTime":1017.52,"body":"the web content accessibility"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1017.52,"endTime":1018.82,"body":"guidelines"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1018.82,"endTime":1024.02,"body":"because each game is unique and"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1018.82,"endTime":1024.02,"body":"each game has its own challenges"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1025.47,"endTime":1029.07,"body":"and you mentioned at the time"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1025.47,"endTime":1029.07,"body":"that there was a certain amount"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1029.07,"endTime":1031.9,"body":"of push back"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1029.07,"endTime":1031.9,"body":"within certain areas of gaming"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1031.9,"endTime":1035.0,"body":"that people"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1031.9,"endTime":1035.0,"body":"didn't want things like,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1035.0,"endTime":1037.84,"body":"you know easy mode"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1035.0,"endTime":1037.84,"body":"and stuff like that."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1038.93,"endTime":1041.75,"body":"Do you think that,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1038.93,"endTime":1041.75,"body":"aside from the people"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1041.75,"endTime":1043.04,"body":"that are making the games"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1043.04,"endTime":1046.68,"body":"that the actual gaming community"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1043.04,"endTime":1046.68,"body":"itself has really matured"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1046.68,"endTime":1051.26,"body":"in its attitude to sort of"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1046.68,"endTime":1051.26,"body":"accessibility settings"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1051.26,"endTime":1054.77,"body":"and its understanding of the"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1051.26,"endTime":1054.77,"body":"benefits of all of this stuff"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1054.77,"endTime":1057.31,"body":"because from what I can see,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1057.31,"endTime":1059.76,"body":"there does seem to be"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1057.31,"endTime":1059.76,"body":"a big shift"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1059.76,"endTime":1063.04,"body":"in how people perceive"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1059.76,"endTime":1063.04,"body":"these settings now,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1063.04,"endTime":1067.34,"body":"as less of a, oh, don't like"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1063.04,"endTime":1067.34,"body":"that, it's detrimental."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1067.34,"endTime":1068.78,"body":"We should all be elite,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1068.78,"endTime":1072.9,"body":"to being something"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1068.78,"endTime":1072.9,"body":"that's more celebrating the fact"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1072.9,"endTime":1075.33,"body":"that everybody can choose"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1072.9,"endTime":1075.33,"body":"how they wish to play."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1076.56,"endTime":1079.62,"body":"Well, we are"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1076.56,"endTime":1079.62,"body":"certainly not there yet."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1079.62,"endTime":1082.83,"body":"There's still a huge amount"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1079.62,"endTime":1082.83,"body":"of negative"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1082.83,"endTime":1087.18,"body":"and toxic discourse"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1082.83,"endTime":1087.18,"body":"around that topic."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1088.05,"endTime":1089.97,"body":"But it's all heading"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1088.05,"endTime":1089.97,"body":"in the right direction."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1089.97,"endTime":1092.57,"body":"You don't have to go"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1089.97,"endTime":1092.57,"body":"too many years into the past"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1092.57,"endTime":1094.69,"body":"and you would see"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1092.57,"endTime":1094.69,"body":"those kinds of comments"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1094.69,"endTime":1097.34,"body":"about things"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1094.69,"endTime":1097.34,"body":"like colour blindness,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1098.48,"endTime":1100.71,"body":"like comments like that"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1098.48,"endTime":1100.71,"body":"about subtitles."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1101.72,"endTime":1103.18,"body":"So, for example,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1101.72,"endTime":1103.18,"body":"somebody saying,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1103.18,"endTime":1105.42,"body":"like somebody"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1103.18,"endTime":1105.42,"body":"who is colour blind"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1105.42,"endTime":1107.87,"body":"saying in the comments"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1105.42,"endTime":1107.87,"body":"sections saying,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1107.87,"endTime":1110.96,"body":"I wish games would cater"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1107.87,"endTime":1110.96,"body":"for colour blindness"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1110.96,"endTime":1112.24,"body":"so I could play more games"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1112.24,"endTime":1114.1,"body":"and getting replies"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1112.24,"endTime":1114.1,"body":"from people saying,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1114.1,"endTime":1116.66,"body":"no, don't be ridiculous,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1114.1,"endTime":1116.66,"body":"don't be so selfish."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1116.66,"endTime":1119.08,"body":"Why should people destroy"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1116.66,"endTime":1119.08,"body":"their creative vision"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1119.08,"endTime":1122.01,"body":"and ruin all their designs"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1119.08,"endTime":1122.01,"body":"just for you whereas now people"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1122.01,"endTime":1123.83,"body":"have actually see"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1122.01,"endTime":1123.83,"body":"that kind of stuff are they know"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1123.83,"endTime":1125.23,"body":"that's not the case at all"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1123.83,"endTime":1125.23,"body":"so, now,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1125.23,"endTime":1127.58,"body":"the discourse"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1125.23,"endTime":1127.58,"body":"has actually shifted to,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1127.58,"endTime":1133.28,"body":"I'm totally in favour"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1127.58,"endTime":1133.28,"body":"in colour blind modes"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1133.28,"endTime":1134.88,"body":"but, it's shifting bit by bit."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1135.49,"endTime":1141.49,"body":"And now, that is the hot button"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1135.49,"endTime":1141.49,"body":"topic is over difficulty,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1142.18,"endTime":1144.21,"body":"particularly the term easy mode,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1144.94,"endTime":1146.7,"body":"which is not"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1144.94,"endTime":1146.7,"body":"very helpful language"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1148.52,"endTime":1151.1,"body":"but it is usually framed"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1148.52,"endTime":1151.1,"body":"in that way of like"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1151.1,"endTime":1152.72,"body":"I'm totally in favour"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1151.1,"endTime":1152.72,"body":"of accessibility,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1152.72,"endTime":1154.26,"body":"love these things,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1152.72,"endTime":1154.26,"body":"these things and these things,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1154.26,"endTime":1155.93,"body":"but I just don't think"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1154.26,"endTime":1155.93,"body":"this particular thing"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1155.93,"endTime":1158.43,"body":"is accessibility"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1155.93,"endTime":1158.43,"body":"which is even though"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1158.43,"endTime":1160.28,"body":"we have got work"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1158.43,"endTime":1160.28,"body":"to do to get beyond that"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1160.28,"endTime":1162.879,"body":"it's nice to have actually"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1160.28,"endTime":1162.879,"body":"progressed to that point."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1163.49,"endTime":1168.08,"body":"But yeah, it's all kind of"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1163.49,"endTime":1168.08,"body":"misunderstandings and"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1168.08,"endTime":1170.07,"body":"misconceptions"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1170.07,"endTime":1173.56,"body":"really about what developers"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1170.07,"endTime":1173.56,"body":"actually want for their games."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1173.56,"endTime":1175.54,"body":"So, there's a kind of"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1173.56,"endTime":1175.54,"body":"misconception amongst gamers"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1175.54,"endTime":1180.56,"body":"that the actual game"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1175.54,"endTime":1180.56,"body":"deliverable,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1180.56,"endTime":1182.12,"body":"the actual thing that you play"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1182.12,"endTime":1184.12,"body":"equals the visions"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1182.12,"endTime":1184.12,"body":"that developers have."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1185.14,"endTime":1187.18,"body":"That is not really how game"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1185.14,"endTime":1187.18,"body":"development works as all."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1187.18,"endTime":1190.42,"body":"So, a designer will have an idea"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1190.42,"endTime":1192.49,"body":"of what a player"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1190.42,"endTime":1192.49,"body":"is going to experience"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1193.17,"endTime":1195.27,"body":"then they put this framework"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1193.17,"endTime":1195.27,"body":"in place,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1195.27,"endTime":1197.11,"body":"which is what the person place,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1197.11,"endTime":1199.84,"body":"which is hopefully going"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1197.11,"endTime":1199.84,"body":"to engender the experience"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1199.84,"endTime":1201.05,"body":"they wanted"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1199.84,"endTime":1201.05,"body":"their players to have,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1201.05,"endTime":1204.02,"body":"so that actual game itself,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1201.05,"endTime":1204.02,"body":"is just the means to an end,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1204.02,"endTime":1205.91,"body":"is the experience the player has"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1204.02,"endTime":1205.91,"body":"that developers"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1205.91,"endTime":1207.12,"body":"actually have in mind"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1207.12,"endTime":1210.2,"body":"and that's why people start"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1207.12,"endTime":1210.2,"body":"thinking that like,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1210.2,"endTime":1213.25,"body":"because I'm playing this game,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1210.2,"endTime":1213.25,"body":"this game seems really hard,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1213.25,"endTime":1216.18,"body":"therefore the developer thought"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1213.25,"endTime":1216.18,"body":"it was"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1216.18,"endTime":1218.22,"body":"supposed to be really hard"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1216.18,"endTime":1218.22,"body":"and should be excluding people,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1218.22,"endTime":1222.43,"body":"when actually the developer"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1218.22,"endTime":1222.43,"body":"had this idea of like people"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1222.43,"endTime":1225.04,"body":"should have a feeling of success"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1222.43,"endTime":1225.04,"body":"through persistence"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1225.04,"endTime":1226.63,"body":"and wants everybody"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1225.04,"endTime":1226.63,"body":"to experience that,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1226.63,"endTime":1228.42,"body":"which is a very grateful"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1226.63,"endTime":1228.42,"body":"kind of thing"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1228.42,"endTime":1232.83,"body":"which actually lends itself"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1228.42,"endTime":1232.83,"body":"to accessibility."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1232.83,"endTime":1237.11,"body":"Whereas that mindset of no,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1232.83,"endTime":1237.11,"body":"this game is a fix, doesn't."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1239.72,"endTime":1243.09,"body":"Yeah. I mean,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1239.72,"endTime":1243.09,"body":"I think I quite like easy mode."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1244.97,"endTime":1246.47,"body":"For me, sometimes though,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1246.47,"endTime":1248.369,"body":"they are certain things"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1246.47,"endTime":1248.369,"body":"I like to play"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1251.3,"endTime":1254.87,"body":"that I tend"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1251.3,"endTime":1254.87,"body":"to play when I'm tired"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1254.87,"endTime":1257.94,"body":"but I just want to relax"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1254.87,"endTime":1257.94,"body":"and then there are other times"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1257.94,"endTime":1261.01,"body":"when I want to be fully engaged"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1257.94,"endTime":1261.01,"body":"and tested and everything else"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1261.01,"endTime":1264.01,"body":"and I think that choice"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1261.01,"endTime":1264.01,"body":"of being able to choose"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1264.01,"endTime":1265.5,"body":"being between"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1264.01,"endTime":1265.5,"body":"the difficulty levels"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1265.5,"endTime":1268.92,"body":"and the amount of things"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1265.5,"endTime":1268.92,"body":"that I'm required to do,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1268.92,"endTime":1273.15,"body":"I'm meant to have is something"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1268.92,"endTime":1273.15,"body":"that I really value."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1274.29,"endTime":1279.76,"body":"Yeah, I think that when"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1274.29,"endTime":1279.76,"body":"Unchartered Four, came out."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1279.76,"endTime":1283.45,"body":"I think I heard someone"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1279.76,"endTime":1283.45,"body":"on Play 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unwind,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1300.67,"endTime":1302.3,"body":"in between putting the kids"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1300.67,"endTime":1302.3,"body":"to bed"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1302.3,"endTime":1304.19,"body":"and having dinner"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1302.3,"endTime":1304.19,"body":"or something like that,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1304.19,"endTime":1307.14,"body":"he walks on the assist"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1304.19,"endTime":1307.14,"body":"and has like a chill time."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1308.16,"endTime":1314.18,"body":"So, it's a nice example"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1308.16,"endTime":1314.18,"body":"of how designing"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1314.78,"endTime":1317.28,"body":"for what you might perceive"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1314.78,"endTime":1317.28,"body":"to be a niche demographic"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1317.28,"endTime":1321.96,"body":"actually has wide reaching"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1317.28,"endTime":1321.96,"body":"benefits not through disability"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1321.96,"endTime":1324.71,"body":"but through people's difference"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1321.96,"endTime":1324.71,"body":"in preferences as well."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1326.98,"endTime":1330.44,"body":"Ian, you mentioned"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1326.98,"endTime":1330.44,"body":"that there are a lot of people,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1332.17,"endTime":1336.82,"body":"accessibility experts working"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1332.17,"endTime":1336.82,"body":"in gaming than ever before,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1337.37,"endTime":1341.61,"body":"have you seen any team"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1337.37,"endTime":1341.61,"body":"or working in"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1341.61,"endTime":1344.14,"body":"trying to find"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1341.61,"endTime":1344.14,"body":"different ways of working,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1344.66,"endTime":1347.07,"body":"in terms of how they collaborate"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1344.66,"endTime":1347.07,"body":"in order to,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1347.88,"endTime":1351.22,"body":"let's say becoming more agile"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1347.88,"endTime":1351.22,"body":"on the operator"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1351.22,"endTime":1354.45,"body":"or reaching outcomes faster,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1351.22,"endTime":1354.45,"body":"is there anybody out there"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1354.45,"endTime":1357.63,"body":"that is somehow working"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1354.45,"endTime":1357.63,"body":"differently to feel okay,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1357.63,"endTime":1360.14,"body":"these guys here are doing"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1357.63,"endTime":1360.14,"body":"something really interesting"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1360.14,"endTime":1361.74,"body":"that others should follow?"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1363.82,"endTime":1367.32,"body":"Well, everyone still"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1363.82,"endTime":1367.32,"body":"at quite early days"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1367.88,"endTime":1370.56,"body":"certainly than"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1367.88,"endTime":1370.56,"body":"if you go to Axicon"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1370.56,"endTime":1371.95,"body":"and watch some of the talks"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1370.56,"endTime":1371.95,"body":"there"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1371.95,"endTime":1375.2,"body":"about companies"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1371.95,"endTime":1375.2,"body":"who are many,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1375.2,"endTime":1377.4,"body":"many years into"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1375.2,"endTime":1377.4,"body":"their accessibility journey."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1379.75,"endTime":1381.9,"body":"Most of the companies"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1379.75,"endTime":1381.9,"body":"in the games industry"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1383.11,"endTime":1386.95,"body":"who are doing good things"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1383.11,"endTime":1386.95,"body":"and really only like,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1386.95,"endTime":1389.28,"body":"a few years, a few products"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1386.95,"endTime":1389.28,"body":"into that journey,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1389.28,"endTime":1390.65,"body":"there's still a long way to go."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1390.65,"endTime":1392.45,"body":"So, people are still"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1390.65,"endTime":1392.45,"body":"in the early stages"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1392.45,"endTime":1395.49,"body":"of like figuring things out,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1392.45,"endTime":1395.49,"body":"how things work, and people"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1395.49,"endTime":1397.94,"body":"do have quite different"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1395.49,"endTime":1397.94,"body":"approaches to each other."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1399.02,"endTime":1402.28,"body":"But I suspect"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1399.02,"endTime":1402.28,"body":"that as time goes on"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1402.28,"endTime":1405.29,"body":"those will come closer together"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1402.28,"endTime":1405.29,"body":"and especially"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1405.29,"endTime":1409.56,"body":"because the accessibility"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1405.29,"endTime":1409.56,"body":"community is really good"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1409.56,"endTime":1411.79,"body":"at sharing"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1409.56,"endTime":1411.79,"body":"and collaborating as well."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1411.79,"endTime":1413.98,"body":"And it is the same"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1411.79,"endTime":1413.98,"body":"in other industries as well,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1413.98,"endTime":1415.71,"body":"it seems to be a topic"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1413.98,"endTime":1415.71,"body":"where people are willing"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1415.71,"endTime":1418.75,"body":"to step across"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1415.71,"endTime":1418.75,"body":"the traditional divides"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1419.38,"endTime":1421.9,"body":"even when the"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1419.38,"endTime":1421.9,"body":"Last Universe 2 came out,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1422.64,"endTime":1425.49,"body":"which is a PlayStation"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1422.64,"endTime":1425.49,"body":"exclusive."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1425.49,"endTime":1428.25,"body":"So, again, that's only"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1425.49,"endTime":1428.25,"body":"available on PlayStation,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1428.25,"endTime":1430.149,"body":"as a way to sell"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1428.25,"endTime":1430.149,"body":"PlayStation consoles."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1432.28,"endTime":1435.23,"body":"Phil Spencer who is"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1432.28,"endTime":1435.23,"body":"the head of Xbox,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1435.23,"endTime":1436.83,"body":"PlayStation’s main competitor"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1437.51,"endTime":1440.16,"body":"was on Twitter"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1437.51,"endTime":1440.16,"body":"praising the Last Universe 2"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1440.16,"endTime":1442.59,"body":"and congratulating the team"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1440.16,"endTime":1442.59,"body":"on their successes."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1442.59,"endTime":1444.23,"body":"For the boss of PlayStation"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1442.59,"endTime":1444.23,"body":"to be publicly"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1444.23,"endTime":1446.72,"body":"praising an exclusive"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1444.23,"endTime":1446.72,"body":"PlayStation game,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1446.72,"endTime":1448.02,"body":"which was quite a big deal."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1448.02,"endTime":1449.45,"body":"It's not something"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1448.02,"endTime":1449.45,"body":"that happens very often"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1449.45,"endTime":1451.749,"body":"and it was accessibility"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1449.45,"endTime":1451.749,"body":"that did it, you know"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1452.3,"endTime":1456.05,"body":"and there was a really nice"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1452.3,"endTime":1456.05,"body":"quote actually at a conference,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1456.05,"endTime":1458.09,"body":"a few years ago,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1458.09,"endTime":1465.17,"body":"a developer called John Noels"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1458.09,"endTime":1465.17,"body":"who works on the Forza games,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1465.17,"endTime":1468.21,"body":"which are racing games"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1465.17,"endTime":1468.21,"body":"and he said,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1470.54,"endTime":1475.51,"body":"it's like there is a race"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1470.54,"endTime":1475.51,"body":"between developers"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1475.51,"endTime":1477.77,"body":"to build"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1475.51,"endTime":1477.77,"body":"the most accessible game"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1478.4,"endTime":1480.62,"body":"and I know a thing"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1478.4,"endTime":1480.62,"body":"or two about racing"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1480.62,"endTime":1482.7,"body":"and this is a race"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1480.62,"endTime":1482.7,"body":"that everybody wins"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1483.59,"endTime":1487.0,"body":"and I love that quote"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1483.59,"endTime":1487.0,"body":"and it's so true just even"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1487.0,"endTime":1489.17,"body":"when people are not directly"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1487.0,"endTime":1489.17,"body":"sharing, collaborating,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1489.17,"endTime":1492.32,"body":"people are still looking around"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1489.17,"endTime":1492.32,"body":"and learning from it."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1493.67,"endTime":1495.8,"body":"And I guess"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1493.67,"endTime":1495.8,"body":"it's that saying about,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1495.8,"endTime":1499.24,"body":"rising tides raises all boats,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1495.8,"endTime":1499.24,"body":"you know."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1499.24,"endTime":1500.51,"body":"But people do really,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1500.51,"endTime":1502.88,"body":"really explicitly like"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1500.51,"endTime":1502.88,"body":"share and collaborate."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1502.88,"endTime":1505.96,"body":"And there was a team I was"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1502.88,"endTime":1505.96,"body":"working with quite recently."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1507.44,"endTime":1512.91,"body":"They were working on some stuff"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1507.44,"endTime":1512.91,"body":"around captioning."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1514.12,"endTime":1517.13,"body":"I said Well, there are"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1514.12,"endTime":1517.13,"body":"these other people over here"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1517.13,"endTime":1518.45,"body":"doing interesting stuff,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1518.45,"endTime":1519.99,"body":"why don't you get"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1518.45,"endTime":1519.99,"body":"in touch with them,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1519.99,"endTime":1522.3,"body":"and these other people said,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1519.99,"endTime":1522.3,"body":"oh yeah, of course,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1522.3,"endTime":1524.41,"body":"here's all our documentation"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1522.3,"endTime":1524.41,"body":"everything, pass it over"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1524.41,"endTime":1527.41,"body":"and then they'll have meetings"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1524.41,"endTime":1527.41,"body":"with us to chat through then,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1527.41,"endTime":1530.52,"body":"you know."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1527.41,"endTime":1530.52,"body":"It's not something that happens"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1530.52,"endTime":1532.71,"body":"as often outside"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1530.52,"endTime":1532.71,"body":"of accessibility"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1532.71,"endTime":1534.6,"body":"which is really nice to see."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1534.6,"endTime":1536.82,"body":"It's really nice to see that it"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1534.6,"endTime":1536.82,"body":"does happen with accessibility"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1536.82,"endTime":1539.52,"body":"not it's nice to see that"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1536.82,"endTime":1539.52,"body":"it doesn't happen elsewhere."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1540.4,"endTime":1542.31,"body":"Ian, I know that there was"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1542.31,"endTime":1548.11,"body":"a lot of marketing done around"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1542.31,"endTime":1548.11,"body":"the accessible controllers"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1549.0,"endTime":1550.72,"body":"and I was just wondering"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1551.64,"endTime":1554.71,"body":"because I've had people"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1551.64,"endTime":1554.71,"body":"approach me and say,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1554.71,"endTime":1557.89,"body":"oh, well I've a better idea"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1554.71,"endTime":1557.89,"body":"for an accessible control,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1557.89,"endTime":1560.05,"body":"a controller that would be"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1557.89,"endTime":1560.05,"body":"accessible to everybody"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1560.05,"endTime":1561.84,"body":"and every situation,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1561.84,"endTime":1564.58,"body":"I was just curious"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1561.84,"endTime":1564.58,"body":"from your perspective"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1564.58,"endTime":1569.48,"body":"if, how did making sure"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1569.48,"endTime":1574.52,"body":"that the hardware parts of"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1569.48,"endTime":1574.52,"body":"the games are also accessible,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1574.52,"endTime":1578.0,"body":"is that also shifting"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1574.52,"endTime":1578.0,"body":"these conversations"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1578.0,"endTime":1581.3,"body":"and driving innovation"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1578.0,"endTime":1581.3,"body":"in the industries?"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1583.19,"endTime":1584.79,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1585.45,"endTime":1587.39,"body":"I like that you mentioned"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1585.45,"endTime":1587.39,"body":"the marketing of it as well"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1587.39,"endTime":1591.38,"body":"because that was"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1587.39,"endTime":1591.38,"body":"a really stupendous thing."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1592.07,"endTime":1593.9,"body":"The fact that not only Microsoft"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1593.9,"endTime":1596.41,"body":"were stepping up"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1593.9,"endTime":1596.41,"body":"and investing in hardware,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1596.41,"endTime":1598.47,"body":"but you also can’t get really"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1596.41,"endTime":1598.47,"body":"get more put your money"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1598.47,"endTime":1601.68,"body":"where your mouth is than"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1598.47,"endTime":1601.68,"body":"building hardware, you know."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1601.68,"endTime":1603.16,"body":"The way it was marketed,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1603.16,"endTime":1607.44,"body":"they not only booked"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1603.16,"endTime":1607.44,"body":"a spot at the Superbowl"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1607.44,"endTime":1609.04,"body":"but a double length spot,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1609.56,"endTime":1611.659,"body":"which is millions"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1609.56,"endTime":1611.659,"body":"and millions of dollars,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1613.25,"endTime":1616.79,"body":"when that happens,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1613.25,"endTime":1616.79,"body":"seeing any company,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1616.79,"endTime":1618.08,"body":"let alone Microsoft,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1618.08,"endTime":1622.67,"body":"spending millions of dollars"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1618.08,"endTime":1622.67,"body":"to advertise and educate"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1622.67,"endTime":1626.04,"body":"about a switch interface"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1622.67,"endTime":1626.04,"body":"that just blew my mind"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1626.76,"endTime":1629.19,"body":"and the reception"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1626.76,"endTime":1629.19,"body":"it had as well."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1629.19,"endTime":1631.21,"body":"Like mainstream news articles"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1631.21,"endTime":1633.86,"body":"saying Xbox won the super bowl"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1631.21,"endTime":1633.86,"body":"and stuff like that,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1634.54,"endTime":1638.79,"body":"just reams and reams"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1634.54,"endTime":1638.79,"body":"of comments on social media,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1638.79,"endTime":1641.2,"body":"and even YouTube"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1638.79,"endTime":1641.2,"body":"comments sections,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1641.2,"endTime":1642.93,"body":"I can never read"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1641.2,"endTime":1642.93,"body":"the comments sections"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1642.93,"endTime":1645.7,"body":"just nothing about"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1642.93,"endTime":1645.7,"body":"positivity about it"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1645.7,"endTime":1648.25,"body":"and this would have been"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1645.7,"endTime":1648.25,"body":"a lot of people's first"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1648.25,"endTime":1651.33,"body":"after encounter"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1648.25,"endTime":1651.33,"body":"with accessibility at all."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1651.33,"endTime":1654.11,"body":"So, it was a really,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1651.33,"endTime":1654.11,"body":"really positive one."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1654.73,"endTime":1657.8,"body":"I think that helped"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1654.73,"endTime":1657.8,"body":"to further the conversation"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1657.8,"endTime":1661.03,"body":"across all industries,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1657.8,"endTime":1661.03,"body":"it was really lovely to see."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1661.03,"endTime":1664.98,"body":"But the US Surgeon General"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1661.03,"endTime":1664.98,"body":"was Tweeting about it."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1665.65,"endTime":1670.29,"body":"TPain was Tweeting about it,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1665.65,"endTime":1670.29,"body":"Cher was Tweeting about it."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1670.29,"endTime":1671.71,"body":"It raised a lot of awareness"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1671.71,"endTime":1674.309,"body":"and did a lot of good"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1671.71,"endTime":1674.309,"body":"just the marketing side of it."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1675.15,"endTime":1676.63,"body":"But just something else"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1675.15,"endTime":1676.63,"body":"I really liked about"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1676.63,"endTime":1678.23,"body":"it was the packaging design,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1678.77,"endTime":1681.39,"body":"I don't know if you see much"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1678.77,"endTime":1681.39,"body":"about that, but I love that."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1681.39,"endTime":1683.22,"body":"I think that's one of the"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1681.39,"endTime":1683.22,"body":"actually most important things"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1683.22,"endTime":1684.46,"body":"about the device as well"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1684.46,"endTime":1688.58,"body":"because the learnings from that"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1684.46,"endTime":1688.58,"body":"are applicable"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1688.58,"endTime":1693.01,"body":"to anyone who is shifting"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1688.58,"endTime":1693.01,"body":"physical products across."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1693.01,"endTime":1696.11,"body":"Ian, I haven't seen it,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1696.11,"endTime":1700.06,"body":"so do you mind describing"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1696.11,"endTime":1700.06,"body":"just what you know the packaging"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1700.06,"endTime":1701.66,"body":"looked like a little bit."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1702.75,"endTime":1706.85,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1702.75,"endTime":1706.85,"body":"So, it's best to look it up"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1706.85,"endTime":1708.47,"body":"because it makes"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1706.85,"endTime":1708.47,"body":"a lot more sense"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1708.47,"endTime":1710.33,"body":"to see at the photos"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1708.47,"endTime":1710.33,"body":"and videos."},{"speaker":"DEBAR","startTime":1710.33,"endTime":1711.59,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1711.59,"endTime":1715.61,"body":"But all the packaging"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1711.59,"endTime":1715.61,"body":"is designed to be accessible"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1716.33,"endTime":1718.23,"body":"so there's nothing"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1716.33,"endTime":1718.23,"body":"that needs cutting,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1718.23,"endTime":1719.68,"body":"nothing that needs tearing,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1719.68,"endTime":1722.04,"body":"just big loops that you can"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1719.68,"endTime":1722.04,"body":"operate one handed"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1722.04,"endTime":1724.36,"body":"if you just pull it,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1722.04,"endTime":1724.36,"body":"one big loop"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1724.36,"endTime":1726.03,"body":"that you can operate"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1724.36,"endTime":1726.03,"body":"with a finger or anything"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1726.03,"endTime":1727.69,"body":"and the whole thing"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1726.03,"endTime":1727.69,"body":"just all folds out."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1727.69,"endTime":1729.29,"body":"It's really, really lovely."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1730.7,"endTime":1734.98,"body":"But that way that the potential"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1734.98,"endTime":1737.18,"body":"that has to influence"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1734.98,"endTime":1737.18,"body":"other industries"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1737.18,"endTime":1741.38,"body":"is something that is applied"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1737.18,"endTime":1741.38,"body":"to in other ways as well."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1741.38,"endTime":1747.26,"body":"So, the fact that it raised"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1741.38,"endTime":1747.26,"body":"all this awareness and profile"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1747.26,"endTime":1750.08,"body":"about this kind of technology"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1747.26,"endTime":1750.08,"body":"brought others on board."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1750.08,"endTime":1754.64,"body":"So Logitech,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1750.08,"endTime":1754.64,"body":"which is a manufacturer"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1754.64,"endTime":1757.37,"body":"of well PC peripherals"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1754.64,"endTime":1757.37,"body":"in general"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1757.96,"endTime":1759.81,"body":"but predominantly"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1757.96,"endTime":1759.81,"body":"gaming peripherals,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1760.73,"endTime":1764.44,"body":"they decided that they were"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1760.73,"endTime":1764.44,"body":"going to jump in"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1764.44,"endTime":1767.93,"body":"and build a bunch"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1764.44,"endTime":1767.93,"body":"of accessibility switches."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1769.23,"endTime":1771.6,"body":"So, not like the typical"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1769.23,"endTime":1771.6,"body":"kind of semi home breed"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1771.6,"endTime":1774.54,"body":"kind of efforts that are not"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1771.6,"endTime":1774.54,"body":"particularly reliable"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1775.16,"endTime":1779.6,"body":"and cost a lot of money because"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1775.16,"endTime":1779.6,"body":"it's small production runs."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1780.31,"endTime":1784.52,"body":"This is someone at a company"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1780.31,"endTime":1784.52,"body":"which already operates factories"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1784.52,"endTime":1786.09,"body":"building this kind much stuff."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1786.09,"endTime":1788.62,"body":"So, they were able"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1786.09,"endTime":1788.62,"body":"to put out"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1788.62,"endTime":1791.68,"body":"this suite"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1788.62,"endTime":1791.68,"body":"of accessibility switches"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1791.68,"endTime":1795.78,"body":"for a tiny fraction of the cost"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1791.68,"endTime":1795.78,"body":"they would normally do."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1795.78,"endTime":1801.36,"body":"So, the kind of thing"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1795.78,"endTime":1801.36,"body":"that would cost $1,500 dollars"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1801.91,"endTime":1804.06,"body":"a suite of all different"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1801.91,"endTime":1804.06,"body":"types of switches,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1804.66,"endTime":1807.68,"body":"you get packages of those for"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1804.66,"endTime":1807.68,"body":"like ten schools and stuff."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1809.54,"endTime":1812.86,"body":"But the cost of this was I"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1809.54,"endTime":1812.86,"body":"can't remember how much it cost,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1812.86,"endTime":1814.57,"body":"but it was something"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1812.86,"endTime":1814.57,"body":"like a hundred dollars"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1814.57,"endTime":1817.5,"body":"for a wide range of all"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1814.57,"endTime":1817.5,"body":"different switches and stuff."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1817.5,"endTime":1818.98,"body":"You'd be lucky"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1817.5,"endTime":1818.98,"body":"to get two switches"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1818.98,"endTime":1821.48,"body":"of the most basic type"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1818.98,"endTime":1821.48,"body":"for that normally."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1821.48,"endTime":1824.0,"body":"And because"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1821.48,"endTime":1824.0,"body":"the adaptor controller"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1824.0,"endTime":1825.61,"body":"is a switch interface,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1825.61,"endTime":1828.4,"body":"it was intentionally built"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1825.61,"endTime":1828.4,"body":"on existing industry standards."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1828.4,"endTime":1830.49,"body":"All those switches at Logitech"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1828.4,"endTime":1830.49,"body":"are built"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1830.49,"endTime":1832.32,"body":"that they were thinking"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1830.49,"endTime":1832.32,"body":"that it's intended for gaming"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1832.32,"endTime":1834.99,"body":"that's applicable"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1832.32,"endTime":1834.99,"body":"for anything that uses switches"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1834.99,"endTime":1836.61,"body":"whether you're operating"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1834.99,"endTime":1836.61,"body":"your iPhone,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1836.61,"endTime":1839.43,"body":"whether you're operating"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1836.61,"endTime":1839.43,"body":"a tablet"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1839.43,"endTime":1842.03,"body":"or attached to a wheelchair"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1839.43,"endTime":1842.03,"body":"in your school."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1842.72,"endTime":1844.76,"body":"It's really nice"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1842.72,"endTime":1844.76,"body":"to see the impact"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1844.76,"endTime":1847.58,"body":"that's had on provider"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1844.76,"endTime":1847.58,"body":"industries in general."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1850.07,"endTime":1852.29,"body":"So, I think it's really"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1850.07,"endTime":1852.29,"body":"interesting, a long long time,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1852.29,"endTime":1854.51,"body":"I was working in building"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1852.29,"endTime":1854.51,"body":"assistive technologies"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1854.51,"endTime":1855.72,"body":"on mobile phones"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1855.72,"endTime":1860.06,"body":"and we were looking at buying"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1855.72,"endTime":1860.06,"body":"in text to speech voices"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1860.82,"endTime":1865.27,"body":"and we were given pricing"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1860.82,"endTime":1865.27,"body":"and the pricing"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1865.27,"endTime":1867.43,"body":"that we were given"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1865.27,"endTime":1867.43,"body":"versus the pricing"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1867.43,"endTime":1871.91,"body":"that the gaming industry could"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1867.43,"endTime":1871.91,"body":"buy the same components for,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1871.91,"endTime":1878.74,"body":"even in sort of 2008 was you"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1871.91,"endTime":1878.74,"body":"know, phenomenally different."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1878.74,"endTime":1885.01,"body":"We were being charged five"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1878.74,"endTime":1885.01,"body":"or six dollars per instance"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1885.01,"endTime":1888.29,"body":"of using the voice"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1885.01,"endTime":1888.29,"body":"and it would be 30,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1888.29,"endTime":1892.77,"body":"40 cents"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1888.29,"endTime":1892.77,"body":"for the gaming industry."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1892.77,"endTime":1896.19,"body":"So, that just shows you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1896.19,"endTime":1899.69,"body":"a, that the technology"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1896.19,"endTime":1899.69,"body":"industry understands scale"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1899.69,"endTime":1901.489,"body":"and wants to sell"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1899.69,"endTime":1901.489,"body":"to scale but also,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1902.28,"endTime":1905.27,"body":"sometimes by saying"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1902.28,"endTime":1905.27,"body":"that we are assistive tech,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1906.77,"endTime":1908.49,"body":"constraining ourselves"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1906.77,"endTime":1908.49,"body":"to that niche,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1908.49,"endTime":1911.11,"body":"we are actually making stuff"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1908.49,"endTime":1911.11,"body":"less affordable,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1911.11,"endTime":1914.06,"body":"less financially accessible."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1914.06,"endTime":1917.56,"body":"So, when organisations"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1914.06,"endTime":1917.56,"body":"like Logitech"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1918.33,"endTime":1920.81,"body":"bring their scale and muscle"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1920.81,"endTime":1925.24,"body":"to doing this stuff"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1920.81,"endTime":1925.24,"body":"everybody benefits, as you say."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1926.26,"endTime":1928.55,"body":"Yeah, and just"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1926.26,"endTime":1928.55,"body":"the expertise as well"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1928.55,"endTime":1929.94,"body":"not just how"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1928.55,"endTime":1929.94,"body":"to build products"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1929.94,"endTime":1934.18,"body":"but how to handle"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1929.94,"endTime":1934.18,"body":"the economics of it."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1935.32,"endTime":1939.03,"body":"So, that's why it is available"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1935.32,"endTime":1939.03,"body":"as a set"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1939.03,"endTime":1941.03,"body":"rather than buying"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1939.03,"endTime":1941.03,"body":"them individually"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1941.03,"endTime":1944.05,"body":"because that means"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1941.03,"endTime":1944.05,"body":"they only have one set"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1944.05,"endTime":1947.32,"body":"of packaging costs"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1944.05,"endTime":1947.32,"body":"and distribution costs"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1947.32,"endTime":1949.62,"body":"for a suite"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1947.32,"endTime":1949.62,"body":"rather than per item."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1949.62,"endTime":1951.48,"body":"So, that allowed them"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1949.62,"endTime":1951.48,"body":"to push the price of it"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1951.48,"endTime":1952.69,"body":"down quite a lot."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1952.69,"endTime":1954.96,"body":"It's that kind of savvy"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1952.69,"endTime":1954.96,"body":"from working in that field"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1954.96,"endTime":1957.04,"body":"for a long time"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1954.96,"endTime":1957.04,"body":"that I think has really helped."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1957.04,"endTime":1958.97,"body":"I just looked it up."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1958.97,"endTime":1961.93,"body":"So, yeah, they were the cheapest"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1958.97,"endTime":1961.93,"body":"bargain basement switches"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1961.93,"endTime":1964.39,"body":"you can normally get"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1961.93,"endTime":1964.39,"body":"and $40, $50 for one"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1964.39,"endTime":1967.06,"body":"and then they go up in price"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1964.39,"endTime":1967.06,"body":"quickly up from there."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1967.06,"endTime":1972.69,"body":"This cost hundred dollars,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1967.06,"endTime":1972.69,"body":"ten switches of different sizes,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1972.69,"endTime":1975.16,"body":"sensitivities,"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1972.69,"endTime":1975.16,"body":"two analogue triggers"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1975.16,"endTime":1978.21,"body":"and also like Velcro mounting"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1975.16,"endTime":1978.21,"body":"in stickers for them as well."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1979.49,"endTime":1980.7,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1980.7,"endTime":1982.31,"body":"That turns things on its head"},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":1982.31,"endTime":1983.55,"body":"quite a bit, you know?"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1983.55,"endTime":1985.89,"body":"Yeah, definitely,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1983.55,"endTime":1985.89,"body":"economy to scale."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1985.89,"endTime":1988.14,"body":"So, thank you Ian."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1985.89,"endTime":1988.14,"body":"It's been fascinating."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1988.14,"endTime":1989.56,"body":"We've reached the end"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1988.14,"endTime":1989.56,"body":"of our half hour."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1989.56,"endTime":1992.29,"body":"I'm sure we could actually"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1989.56,"endTime":1992.29,"body":"go on for a lot longer."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1992.29,"endTime":1997.52,"body":"I'd like to thank My Clear Text"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1992.29,"endTime":1997.52,"body":"for keeping us captioned"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1997.52,"endTime":1999.85,"body":"and really look forward"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1999.85,"endTime":2003.14,"body":"to having a lively"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1999.85,"endTime":2003.14,"body":"discussion on Twitter"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2003.14,"endTime":2005.69,"body":"and maybe one"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2003.14,"endTime":2005.69,"body":"about Twitter as well."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2005.69,"endTime":2007.57,"body":"So, thank you again, Ian."},{"speaker":"IAN","startTime":2008.09,"endTime":2013.37,"body":"Thank you."}]}