{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.14,"endTime":1.45,"body":"This is a draft transcript"},{"startTime":0.14,"endTime":1.45,"body":"produced live at the event"},{"startTime":1.45,"endTime":2.66,"body":"and corrected for spelling"},{"startTime":1.45,"endTime":2.66,"body":"and basic errors."},{"startTime":2.66,"endTime":5.18,"body":"It is not"},{"startTime":2.66,"endTime":5.18,"body":"a commercial transcript."},{"startTime":5.18,"endTime":6.4,"body":"AXSCHAT"},{"startTime":5.18,"endTime":6.4,"body":"Michael Cooper"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":6.4,"endTime":7.62,"body":"Hello and welcome to Axschat."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":7.62,"endTime":8.92,"body":"I'm really pleased that we are"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":7.62,"endTime":8.92,"body":"joined today by Michael Cooper,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":8.92,"endTime":10.16,"body":"who I've known for a while now"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":10.16,"endTime":11.36,"body":"but for those of you"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":10.16,"endTime":11.36,"body":"that don't know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":11.36,"endTime":15.25,"body":"Michael is a web accessibility"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":11.36,"endTime":15.25,"body":"technical lead at the W3C"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":15.25,"endTime":17.12,"body":"for the web"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":15.25,"endTime":17.12,"body":"accessibility initiative"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":17.12,"endTime":20.25,"body":"and prior to that"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":17.12,"endTime":20.25,"body":"which is I know Michael,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":20.25,"endTime":22.299,"body":"was staff contact"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":20.25,"endTime":22.299,"body":"to the technical groups"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":23.3,"endTime":24.59,"body":"and is continuing to work"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":24.59,"endTime":26.75,"body":"with the accessibility"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":24.59,"endTime":26.75,"body":"working groups."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":27.6,"endTime":30.35,"body":"So, he has worked"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":27.6,"endTime":30.35,"body":"at the W3C since 2006"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":30.35,"endTime":32.74,"body":"and I knew him"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":30.35,"endTime":32.74,"body":"when I was contributing"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":32.74,"endTime":34.93,"body":"to the cognitive"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":32.74,"endTime":34.93,"body":"accessibility task force."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":34.93,"endTime":37.89,"body":"So, that's an awful"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":34.93,"endTime":37.89,"body":"lot of acronyms"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":38.61,"endTime":43.0,"body":"but essentially the W3C,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":38.61,"endTime":43.0,"body":"worldwide web consortium"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":43.0,"endTime":45.86,"body":"is the thing that designs"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":43.0,"endTime":45.86,"body":"the standards"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":45.86,"endTime":49.06,"body":"of how the internet"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":45.86,"endTime":49.06,"body":"and the world wide web operates"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":49.6,"endTime":54.21,"body":"including interoperability with"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":49.6,"endTime":54.21,"body":"assistive tech and accessibility"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":54.21,"endTime":55.89,"body":"and that's what"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":54.21,"endTime":55.89,"body":"we are all about."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":55.89,"endTime":58.69,"body":"And that's why it's great"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":55.89,"endTime":58.69,"body":"to have Michael here."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":58.69,"endTime":64.1,"body":"So, Michael welcome, can you"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":58.69,"endTime":64.1,"body":"tell us a little bit more"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":64.65,"endTime":67.02,"body":"about the work you're doing"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":67.02,"endTime":71.12,"body":"and how you fell"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":67.02,"endTime":71.12,"body":"into accessibility in 2006"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":72.25,"endTime":73.85,"body":"or maybe before?"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":74.63,"endTime":78.52,"body":"Sure, so as people know,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":79.07,"endTime":81.25,"body":"Judy Brewer who was the director"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":81.25,"endTime":83.96,"body":"of the web accessibility"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":81.25,"endTime":83.96,"body":"initiative for 25 years"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":84.78,"endTime":87.75,"body":"has stepped back"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":84.78,"endTime":87.75,"body":"from the role."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":89.2,"endTime":91.94,"body":"So, I've been involved,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":91.94,"endTime":96.34,"body":"I've been an employee of the web"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":91.94,"endTime":96.34,"body":"initiative since 2006,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":96.34,"endTime":97.72,"body":"worked with"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":96.34,"endTime":97.72,"body":"the technical groups."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":97.72,"endTime":99.82,"body":"I've garnered"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":97.72,"endTime":99.82,"body":"a lot of experience"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":99.82,"endTime":103.65,"body":"with how W3C works,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":99.82,"endTime":103.65,"body":"as well as a broad understanding"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":103.65,"endTime":107.23,"body":"of the technical challenges"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":103.65,"endTime":107.23,"body":"of accessibility on the web."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":107.23,"endTime":111.31,"body":"So, I said that I thought"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":107.23,"endTime":111.31,"body":"I had something to offer"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":111.31,"endTime":115.09,"body":"to Steffy and so,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":115.09,"endTime":117.54,"body":"right now, I'm stepping into"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":115.09,"endTime":117.54,"body":"some of Judy's role,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":118.14,"endTime":122.12,"body":"primary working on what is"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":118.14,"endTime":122.12,"body":"our strategy going forward."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":123.02,"endTime":125.08,"body":"Everything at W3C"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":123.02,"endTime":125.08,"body":"is changing."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":125.64,"endTime":128.16,"body":"The organisation is shifting"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":125.64,"endTime":128.16,"body":"from a model"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":128.16,"endTime":132.29,"body":"hosted by four universities"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":128.16,"endTime":132.29,"body":"to an independent legal entity,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":133.63,"endTime":136.71,"body":"that's changing"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":133.63,"endTime":136.71,"body":"how our operations work"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":138.04,"endTime":141.99,"body":"and the legal entity is operated"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":138.04,"endTime":141.99,"body":"by a board of directors."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":143.07,"endTime":145.79,"body":"So, we now have"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":143.07,"endTime":145.79,"body":"different sources of guidance"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":145.79,"endTime":147.39,"body":"for our directions."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":147.98,"endTime":150.9,"body":"So, you know,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":147.98,"endTime":150.9,"body":"as W3C moves forward,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":151.49,"endTime":155.15,"body":"the web 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our role"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":172.15,"endTime":175.09,"body":"within W3C,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":175.71,"endTime":178.52,"body":"which includes the guidelines"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":175.71,"endTime":178.52,"body":"that we write,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":179.2,"endTime":183.12,"body":"the technologies that we create"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":179.2,"endTime":183.12,"body":"such as Aria to fill gaps,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":184.17,"endTime":187.22,"body":"the education that we do"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":184.17,"endTime":187.22,"body":"that makes sure"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":187.22,"endTime":189.62,"body":"that people are paying attention"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":187.22,"endTime":189.62,"body":"to all of this."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":190.34,"endTime":194.22,"body":"You know, there are a lot"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":190.34,"endTime":194.22,"body":"of different components to it."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":195.47,"endTime":199.53,"body":"And, so, we are"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":195.47,"endTime":199.53,"body":"determining that work."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":199.53,"endTime":204.91,"body":"But, it's very clear to me"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":199.53,"endTime":204.91,"body":"that a lot of this work"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":204.91,"endTime":207.16,"body":"is being done"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":204.91,"endTime":207.16,"body":"by other organisations."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":207.16,"endTime":213.21,"body":"So, as we look at what is our"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":207.16,"endTime":213.21,"body":"centre of expertise in the W3C,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":213.21,"endTime":214.58,"body":"I also want to look at,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":214.58,"endTime":217.42,"body":"you know how can we collaborate"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":214.58,"endTime":217.42,"body":"with other organisations"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":217.42,"endTime":221.32,"body":"to maximise the value of each"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":217.42,"endTime":221.32,"body":"other's work and you know,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":221.32,"endTime":223.89,"body":"going back to your question"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":221.32,"endTime":223.89,"body":"on some of my background,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":223.89,"endTime":226.58,"body":"this comes out of my own"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":223.89,"endTime":226.58,"body":"personal background."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":227.43,"endTime":230.27,"body":"Before joining W3C as staff,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":230.27,"endTime":232.88,"body":"I worked on"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":230.27,"endTime":232.88,"body":"the accessibility tool,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":232.88,"endTime":238.37,"body":"BOBBY, the first."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":232.88,"endTime":238.37,"body":"Not arguably the best."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":238.37,"endTime":242.2,"body":"But the first web"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":238.37,"endTime":242.2,"body":"accessibility evaluation tool."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":243.42,"endTime":246.19,"body":"That was a great entry"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":243.42,"endTime":246.19,"body":"to the field for me."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":246.19,"endTime":250.81,"body":"And I actually came to me from"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":246.19,"endTime":250.81,"body":"my master's degree in education."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":251.37,"endTime":252.97,"body":"So, that background,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":253.61,"endTime":255.43,"body":"although I have a degree"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":253.61,"endTime":255.43,"body":"in education,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":255.43,"endTime":257.51,"body":"has steered me"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":255.43,"endTime":257.51,"body":"into accessibility"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":257.51,"endTime":261.45,"body":"and is very helpful"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":257.51,"endTime":261.45,"body":"to the transition"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":261.45,"endTime":262.99,"body":"that we are going"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":261.45,"endTime":262.99,"body":"through right now."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":262.99,"endTime":264.22,"body":"Excellent."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":264.22,"endTime":267.88,"body":"So, I know Debra and Antonio"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":264.22,"endTime":267.88,"body":"both have got questions"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":267.88,"endTime":271.14,"body":"and I fondly remember"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":267.88,"endTime":271.14,"body":"BOBBY"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":271.14,"endTime":273.76,"body":"I worked on it"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":271.14,"endTime":273.76,"body":"for a very long 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bodies"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":296.84,"endTime":300.56,"body":"and creates standards for all"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":296.84,"endTime":300.56,"body":"sorts of other things as well,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":301.64,"endTime":303.56,"body":"specifically for accessibility."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":304.08,"endTime":309.41,"body":"But there has been"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":304.08,"endTime":309.41,"body":"quite an evolution"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":310.51,"endTime":314.03,"body":"in the thinking about how"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":310.51,"endTime":314.03,"body":"those standards get delivered."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":314.03,"endTime":318.06,"body":"So, a lot of people"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":314.03,"endTime":318.06,"body":"are familiar with WCAG,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":318.06,"endTime":320.02,"body":"the web content"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":318.06,"endTime":320.02,"body":"accessibility 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serve"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":364.11,"endTime":365.95,"body":"the community."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":365.95,"endTime":369.08,"body":"Because Axschat is"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":365.95,"endTime":369.08,"body":"about our community."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":369.08,"endTime":373.75,"body":"We are not the most technical"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":369.08,"endTime":373.75,"body":"of accessibility communities."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":373.75,"endTime":376.17,"body":"We are a sort of disability"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":373.75,"endTime":376.17,"body":"inclusion technology"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":376.69,"endTime":378.98,"body":"broad church community,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":378.98,"endTime":381.65,"body":"although some of us work"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":378.98,"endTime":381.65,"body":"in a technical field."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":381.65,"endTime":387.5,"body":"So, how is something"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":381.65,"endTime":387.5,"body":"like WCAG3,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":388.96,"endTime":395.03,"body":"going to address some of those,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":388.96,"endTime":395.03,"body":"you know the nontechnical issues"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":395.03,"endTime":398.77,"body":"or the more usability issues"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":395.03,"endTime":398.77,"body":"the blurring of the boundaries"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":398.77,"endTime":404.87,"body":"that the cognitive accessibility"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":398.77,"endTime":404.87,"body":"themes often raised"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":405.51,"endTime":408.93,"body":"that proved to be a challenge"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":408.93,"endTime":413.08,"body":"when you've got black"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":408.93,"endTime":413.08,"body":"and white criteria"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":413.08,"endTime":415.41,"body":"that were quite often the case"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":413.08,"endTime":415.41,"body":"in success criteria"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":415.41,"endTime":418.39,"body":"for the way that stuff"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":415.41,"endTime":418.39,"body":"has been done"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":418.39,"endTime":420.33,"body":"in previous iterations"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":418.39,"endTime":420.33,"body":"of standards"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":422.32,"endTime":423.92,"body":"and then I'll stop talking."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":424.83,"endTime":427.29,"body":"Okay, so yeah, I'm talking notes"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":427.29,"endTime":430.02,"body":"so I can try to address"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":427.29,"endTime":430.02,"body":"your questions."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":430.02,"endTime":438.16,"body":"So, I think I'll answer the"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":430.02,"endTime":438.16,"body":"middle of your question first."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":438.16,"endTime":442.04,"body":"So, in terms of you know,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":442.04,"endTime":445.21,"body":"how do we stay on top"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":442.04,"endTime":445.21,"body":"of technology evolution?"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":445.21,"endTime":447.18,"body":"Obviously the world"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":445.21,"endTime":447.18,"body":"has changed a lot"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":447.18,"endTime":449.51,"body":"during the time W3C"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":447.18,"endTime":449.51,"body":"has been around"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":449.51,"endTime":452.38,"body":"and WAI has been around"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":449.51,"endTime":452.38,"body":"and you know,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":452.38,"endTime":455.5,"body":"both technical changes"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":452.38,"endTime":455.5,"body":"and social changes"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":455.5,"endTime":458.43,"body":"have impacted"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":455.5,"endTime":458.43,"body":"how we do our work."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":460.24,"endTime":464.98,"body":"You know? And in particular,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":460.24,"endTime":464.98,"body":"there has been a lot of focus"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":464.98,"endTime":467.11,"body":"on more agile development"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":464.98,"endTime":467.11,"body":"of specs"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":467.11,"endTime":470.47,"body":"rather than taking years"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":467.11,"endTime":470.47,"body":"and years to develop a standard."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":470.47,"endTime":472.98,"body":"You know, they should"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":470.47,"endTime":472.98,"body":"come through you know,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":472.98,"endTime":475.01,"body":"much more quickly and you know,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":475.01,"endTime":476.66,"body":"if there is a long tail"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":475.01,"endTime":476.66,"body":"to development"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":476.66,"endTime":478.709,"body":"it should be"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":476.66,"endTime":478.709,"body":"in the incubation the stage."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":480.54,"endTime":482.1,"body":"In the web"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":480.54,"endTime":482.1,"body":"accessibility initiative"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":482.1,"endTime":484.64,"body":"we have been able"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":482.1,"endTime":484.64,"body":"to adopt that approach"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":484.64,"endTime":487.25,"body":"for some of our technologies"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":484.64,"endTime":487.25,"body":"like Aria,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":487.25,"endTime":490.41,"body":"we are struggling with how to"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":487.25,"endTime":490.41,"body":"adopt that to the guidelines"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":490.41,"endTime":494.04,"body":"because so much"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":490.41,"endTime":494.04,"body":"is interdependent"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":495.28,"endTime":497.01,"body":"in the guidelines you know"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":497.01,"endTime":501.55,"body":"and if you do one thing"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":497.01,"endTime":501.55,"body":"and not another,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":501.55,"endTime":504.21,"body":"you know the consequences,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":501.55,"endTime":504.21,"body":"it's hard to look them through."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":504.21,"endTime":507.63,"body":"So, and you know,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":504.21,"endTime":507.63,"body":"that's been a challenge with us."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":509.16,"endTime":510.7,"body":"But also,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":509.16,"endTime":510.7,"body":"some of that challenge,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":510.7,"endTime":514.07,"body":"I think comes from"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":510.7,"endTime":514.07,"body":"the history of you know"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":514.07,"endTime":517.7,"body":"how WCAG was developed"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":514.07,"endTime":517.7,"body":"and came out in the world."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":519.18,"endTime":525.82,"body":"WCAG1 was an initial set"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":519.18,"endTime":525.82,"body":"of guidelines focused on HTML"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":525.82,"endTime":530.72,"body":"at the time and was very useful"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":525.82,"endTime":530.72,"body":"and then was quickly outdated."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":531.73,"endTime":533.56,"body":"So, they said,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":531.73,"endTime":533.56,"body":"let's do WCAG2,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":533.56,"endTime":535.609,"body":"that would be more"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":533.56,"endTime":535.609,"body":"technology independent"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":537.31,"endTime":541.05,"body":"but then it took ten years."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":537.31,"endTime":541.05,"body":"And then we said, well."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":541.05,"endTime":544.53,"body":"we are never going to need"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":541.05,"endTime":544.53,"body":"to touch this again until 2020,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":544.53,"endTime":549.08,"body":"so let's stop. You know,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":544.53,"endTime":549.08,"body":"eventually the need to update"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":549.08,"endTime":551.33,"body":"the guidelines came around."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":551.33,"endTime":552.97,"body":"We were starting"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":551.33,"endTime":552.97,"body":"with both immediate"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":552.97,"endTime":556.42,"body":"needs which led to"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":552.97,"endTime":556.42,"body":"WCAG2.1 and 2.2."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":557.2,"endTime":560.48,"body":"But also really discovering"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":557.2,"endTime":560.48,"body":"that there were things"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":560.48,"endTime":564.89,"body":"that we could not do in our"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":560.48,"endTime":564.89,"body":"accessibility guidelines"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":564.89,"endTime":566.36,"body":"wow meeting the require meets"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":566.36,"endTime":569.0,"body":"that we had set"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":566.36,"endTime":569.0,"body":"for ourselves for WCAG2."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":570.07,"endTime":572.65,"body":"And those requirements"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":570.07,"endTime":572.65,"body":"made sense at the time"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":572.65,"endTime":574.47,"body":"with the technology"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":572.65,"endTime":574.47,"body":"that was there"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":575.27,"endTime":578.29,"body":"and the policy"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":575.27,"endTime":578.29,"body":"and evaluation environment"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":578.29,"endTime":579.89,"body":"that we were working in."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":580.58,"endTime":584.39,"body":"But you know, I think again"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":580.58,"endTime":584.39,"body":"technology has changed again"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":584.39,"endTime":588.99,"body":"and the way policies use"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":584.39,"endTime":588.99,"body":"the guidelines may evolve."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":588.99,"endTime":592.39,"body":"So, we need to think"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":588.99,"endTime":592.39,"body":"freshly about"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":592.39,"endTime":596.7,"body":"what are our actual"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":592.39,"endTime":596.7,"body":"constraints and requirements."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":596.7,"endTime":597.92,"body":"So, for WCAG3,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":597.92,"endTime":600.19,"body":"we are trying to think"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":597.92,"endTime":600.19,"body":"much more broadly about that,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":600.19,"endTime":603.53,"body":"how can we address"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":600.19,"endTime":603.53,"body":"more use cases,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":605.02,"endTime":607.81,"body":"you know, more user groups."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":608.71,"endTime":611.78,"body":"That in turn involves"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":608.71,"endTime":611.78,"body":"thinking through new ways"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":612.41,"endTime":617.67,"body":"of defining guidance"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":612.41,"endTime":617.67,"body":"and evaluating"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":617.67,"endTime":620.02,"body":"that it's been done,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":617.67,"endTime":620.02,"body":"assuring oneself."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":621.57,"endTime":624.51,"body":"So, there is exploration"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":621.57,"endTime":624.51,"body":"with different types of testing,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":624.51,"endTime":626.56,"body":"different types"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":624.51,"endTime":626.56,"body":"of conformist models."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":627.68,"endTime":630.4,"body":"The big worry I think"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":627.68,"endTime":630.4,"body":"in the working group overall"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":630.4,"endTime":634.4,"body":"is how is the policy community"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":630.4,"endTime":634.4,"body":"going to receive this,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":634.4,"endTime":638.41,"body":"you know some people feel"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":634.4,"endTime":638.41,"body":"that it's a great innovation"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":638.41,"endTime":639.78,"body":"that will help a lot,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":639.78,"endTime":643.07,"body":"some are worried that"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":639.78,"endTime":643.07,"body":"it will not seem drive enough."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":643.07,"endTime":646.16,"body":"So, we are really working"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":643.07,"endTime":646.16,"body":"with coming up"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":646.16,"endTime":649.01,"body":"with policy"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":646.16,"endTime":649.01,"body":"compatible guidance."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":650.01,"endTime":653.64,"body":"So, this is an important move"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":650.01,"endTime":653.64,"body":"to increase"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":653.64,"endTime":657.21,"body":"basically equity"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":653.64,"endTime":657.21,"body":"in web accessibility guidance."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":658.16,"endTime":660.15,"body":"Unfortunately, although we said,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":660.15,"endTime":662.48,"body":"we are going to do this"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":660.15,"endTime":662.48,"body":"in five years,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":662.48,"endTime":665.81,"body":"we are now going to be"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":662.48,"endTime":665.81,"body":"at least ten years by the time,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":667.4,"endTime":669.77,"body":"I'm hoping that with"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":667.4,"endTime":669.77,"body":"some of the changes"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":669.77,"endTime":672.33,"body":"that have been going on"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":669.77,"endTime":672.33,"body":"in W3C's evolution"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":672.33,"endTime":674.55,"body":"that we might be able"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":672.33,"endTime":674.55,"body":"to pick up on it."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":674.55,"endTime":676.41,"body":"The chairs and I"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":674.55,"endTime":676.41,"body":"have certainly learned a lot"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":676.41,"endTime":677.64,"body":"in the past couple of years"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":677.64,"endTime":680.66,"body":"on how to move"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":677.64,"endTime":680.66,"body":"this work forward effectively."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":680.66,"endTime":683.4,"body":"I think there are some new ideas"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":680.66,"endTime":683.4,"body":"we are coming up with"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":684.25,"endTime":688.22,"body":"but, yeah that's a situation"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":684.25,"endTime":688.22,"body":"we are in at the moment."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":688.77,"endTime":692.28,"body":"I will say that one of"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":688.77,"endTime":692.28,"body":"our requirements for WCAG3,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":692.28,"endTime":694.68,"body":"will be that something"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":692.28,"endTime":694.68,"body":"that takes less than"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":694.68,"endTime":696.77,"body":"20 years to update."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":696.77,"endTime":699.94,"body":"So you know, I don't know"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":696.77,"endTime":699.94,"body":"what the mechanism will be,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":699.94,"endTime":702.61,"body":"but we envision there will be"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":699.94,"endTime":702.61,"body":"some kind of a model"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":702.61,"endTime":704.49,"body":"for updating guidance"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":702.61,"endTime":704.49,"body":"every year."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":704.49,"endTime":709.31,"body":"So, in a way that doesn’t make"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":704.49,"endTime":709.31,"body":"guidance go obsolete"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":709.31,"endTime":710.91,"body":"and what not."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":712.0,"endTime":715.07,"body":"Wow. You seem like you've"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":712.0,"endTime":715.07,"body":"a really hard job, Michael."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":716.21,"endTime":720.01,"body":"I just want to say for anyone"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":716.21,"endTime":720.01,"body":"that doesn't want know about"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":720.01,"endTime":724.59,"body":"BOBBY, BOBBY was actually"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":720.01,"endTime":724.59,"body":"designed after the UK police."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":725.26,"endTime":728.36,"body":"I just always thought"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":725.26,"endTime":728.36,"body":"that was so cute."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":728.36,"endTime":729.69,"body":"Anyway, I just wanted"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":728.36,"endTime":729.69,"body":"to say that."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":729.69,"endTime":735.51,"body":"But you know, it seems like"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":729.69,"endTime":735.51,"body":"it's really hard, WC3, WCAG,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":735.51,"endTime":737.54,"body":"with all you're doing"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":735.51,"endTime":737.54,"body":"and I remember I also,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":737.54,"endTime":740.96,"body":"like Neil was part of"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":737.54,"endTime":740.96,"body":"the COGO workforce"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":740.96,"endTime":744.53,"body":"and I was shocked,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":740.96,"endTime":744.53,"body":"as an individual,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":744.53,"endTime":748.52,"body":"as a technology leader, at what"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":744.53,"endTime":748.52,"body":"we were having to work on,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":749.06,"endTime":753.14,"body":"the complexity, the nuance."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":749.06,"endTime":753.14,"body":"I know accessibility is nuanced"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":753.14,"endTime":756.99,"body":"but the way"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":753.14,"endTime":756.99,"body":"you do standards, wow."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":756.99,"endTime":760.25,"body":"It's just not my cup of tea."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":756.99,"endTime":760.25,"body":"I'm just not that person."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":760.25,"endTime":763.95,"body":"But there was a whole bunch"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":760.25,"endTime":763.95,"body":"of those people in there"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":763.95,"endTime":767.97,"body":"and giving their time"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":763.95,"endTime":767.97,"body":"and volunteering and so,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":767.97,"endTime":769.97,"body":"I think one thing"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":767.97,"endTime":769.97,"body":"that would be helpful,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":770.55,"endTime":773.61,"body":"to explain to"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":770.55,"endTime":773.61,"body":"some of our audience"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":773.61,"endTime":775.49,"body":"is why is it so complicated ?"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":775.49,"endTime":778.05,"body":"Meaning, so it takes ten years,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":778.05,"endTime":780.14,"body":"no 20 years to update"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":778.05,"endTime":780.14,"body":"the standards"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":780.14,"endTime":785.71,"body":"but let's also take a moment"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":780.14,"endTime":785.71,"body":"to celebrate what W3C has done."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":785.71,"endTime":791.43,"body":"W3C has gotten WCAG tied"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":785.71,"endTime":791.43,"body":"into laws all over the world,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":791.43,"endTime":795.13,"body":"that's hard to do and another"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":791.43,"endTime":795.13,"body":"reason why it gets complicated"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":795.13,"endTime":796.73,"body":"when you try to shift it right"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":796.73,"endTime":800.17,"body":"because you're actually tied"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":796.73,"endTime":800.17,"body":"to legal and compliance"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":800.17,"endTime":806.13,"body":"and if people get this wrong"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":800.17,"endTime":806.13,"body":"and there is so much more to it"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":806.13,"endTime":808.15,"body":"and we were talking off air"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":808.15,"endTime":812.1,"body":"about how assistive technology"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":808.15,"endTime":812.1,"body":"ties into this."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":812.1,"endTime":813.87,"body":"Antonio, off air,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":812.1,"endTime":813.87,"body":"was talking about"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":813.87,"endTime":815.83,"body":"what is happening"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":813.87,"endTime":815.83,"body":"with social media."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":815.83,"endTime":817.83,"body":"There are so many"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":815.83,"endTime":817.83,"body":"moving parts, Michael."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":818.46,"endTime":820.04,"body":"I would be curious"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":818.46,"endTime":820.04,"body":"how in the world"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":820.04,"endTime":821.34,"body":"you get your hands around that."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":821.34,"endTime":824.2,"body":"But also how can"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":821.34,"endTime":824.2,"body":"our communities,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":824.2,"endTime":828.29,"body":"our corporate stakeholders,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":824.2,"endTime":828.29,"body":"our accessibility leaders."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":828.86,"endTime":832.38,"body":"The UN aid,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":828.86,"endTime":832.38,"body":"how do we get behind this"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":832.38,"endTime":835.76,"body":"because you're fighting for"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":832.38,"endTime":835.76,"body":"our community to be included."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":835.76,"endTime":838.1,"body":"So, I feel we have to get"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":835.76,"endTime":838.1,"body":"behind you all to help you."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":838.1,"endTime":841.45,"body":"But I also I want to talk"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":838.1,"endTime":841.45,"body":"about the complexity"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":841.45,"endTime":844.36,"body":"and I named just some"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":841.45,"endTime":844.36,"body":"little tiny pieces of it"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":844.36,"endTime":848.33,"body":"but I just want to be fair"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":844.36,"endTime":848.33,"body":"about the successes you have had"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":848.33,"endTime":850.3,"body":"but also how complicated"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":848.33,"endTime":850.3,"body":"this is?"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":851.6,"endTime":855.31,"body":"Sure, so your experience"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":855.31,"endTime":857.2,"body":"in the cognitive"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":855.31,"endTime":857.2,"body":"accessibility group,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":857.2,"endTime":860.95,"body":"they are a group that are"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":857.2,"endTime":860.95,"body":"focusing a lot on gathering,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":860.95,"endTime":863.0,"body":"requirements, research,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":864.29,"endTime":867.74,"body":"there is actually a reason"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":864.29,"endTime":867.74,"body":"for that which is they found"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":867.74,"endTime":871.75,"body":"it was very hard to get people"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":867.74,"endTime":871.75,"body":"in the rest of the working group"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":871.75,"endTime":876.71,"body":"to understand the reason for"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":871.75,"endTime":876.71,"body":"guidelines they were asking for"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":876.71,"endTime":878.11,"body":"and they basically said"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":878.11,"endTime":880.52,"body":"we are going to throw"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":878.11,"endTime":880.52,"body":"the library at you."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":881.49,"endTime":883.92,"body":"So, you know that group"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":881.49,"endTime":883.92,"body":"is more focused"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":883.92,"endTime":887.4,"body":"than some of our other groups"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":883.92,"endTime":887.4,"body":"are but you know,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":887.4,"endTime":890.94,"body":"it has produced a lot of really"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":887.4,"endTime":890.94,"body":"interesting material but yeah,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":890.94,"endTime":893.039,"body":"it's definitely not"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":890.94,"endTime":893.039,"body":"everyone's cup of tea."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":893.71,"endTime":897.15,"body":"Some of the other groups though"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":893.71,"endTime":897.15,"body":"like nearly every W3C group"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":897.15,"endTime":901.36,"body":"has a reputation for being slow"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":897.15,"endTime":901.36,"body":"and painful to work with."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":902.6,"endTime":905.62,"body":"Some of that is because"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":902.6,"endTime":905.62,"body":"of our consensus process."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":906.71,"endTime":909.51,"body":"The function of the 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fence,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1276.9,"endTime":1281.16,"body":"creating user requirements"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1276.9,"endTime":1281.16,"body":"the conniptions"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1281.16,"endTime":1285.08,"body":"that it would cause for some of"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1281.16,"endTime":1285.08,"body":"the people on the other side"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1285.08,"endTime":1287.55,"body":"that were focussed"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1285.08,"endTime":1287.55,"body":"on compliance"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1287.55,"endTime":1289.7,"body":"and in fact,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1287.55,"endTime":1289.7,"body":"their businesses are compliant"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1290.24,"endTime":1293.78,"body":"and finding ways to consistently"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1290.24,"endTime":1293.78,"body":"test and all of the rest of it"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1293.78,"endTime":1295.22,"body":"because a lot of the stuff"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1293.78,"endTime":1295.22,"body":"that we want"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1295.22,"endTime":1300.6,"body":"isn't necessarily consistent"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1295.22,"endTime":1300.6,"body":"and defining things like,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1301.47,"endTime":1306.43,"body":"you know, usable"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1301.47,"endTime":1306.43,"body":"or understandable you know"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1307.14,"endTime":1308.94,"body":"is a really difficult thing."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1310.21,"endTime":1315.24,"body":"So, I just wanted to sort of"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1310.21,"endTime":1315.24,"body":"make the sort of observation"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1315.24,"endTime":1322.31,"body":"that you have some more now"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1315.24,"endTime":1322.31,"body":"than I spent some time"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1322.31,"endTime":1324.06,"body":"working on both sides"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1322.31,"endTime":1324.06,"body":"of the fence."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1324.92,"endTime":1326.56,"body":"Yeah, and I'll just say"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1326.56,"endTime":1328.97,"body":"I didn't take offence"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1326.56,"endTime":1328.97,"body":"to Debra's observation."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1329.54,"endTime":1335.25,"body":"I think people in this audience"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1329.54,"endTime":1335.25,"body":"will have experienced or heard"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1335.25,"endTime":1337.18,"body":"that W3C is difficult"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1335.25,"endTime":1337.18,"body":"to work with so,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1337.18,"endTime":1338.7,"body":"I do want to acknowledge"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1337.18,"endTime":1338.7,"body":"that we know that"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1338.7,"endTime":1340.98,"body":"and we are trying"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1338.7,"endTime":1340.98,"body":"to be better with that."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1342.17,"endTime":1345.12,"body":"I will say that WCAG3"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1342.17,"endTime":1345.12,"body":"is trying to solve"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1345.12,"endTime":1347.41,"body":"that issue your working on,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1347.41,"endTime":1352.96,"body":"the current exploration is what"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1347.41,"endTime":1352.96,"body":"we're calling procedural tests,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1352.96,"endTime":1356.94,"body":"where the accessibility"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1352.96,"endTime":1356.94,"body":"outcome that's desired,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1356.94,"endTime":1359.89,"body":"we don't have a way of testing"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1356.94,"endTime":1359.89,"body":"was this outcome desired"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1359.89,"endTime":1363.31,"body":"because it's not something"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1359.89,"endTime":1363.31,"body":"directly testable"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1363.31,"endTime":1366.4,"body":"but we can say well,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1363.31,"endTime":1366.4,"body":"there are procedures"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1366.4,"endTime":1369.52,"body":"that you can follow that"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1366.4,"endTime":1369.52,"body":"will bring you to that outcome"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1370.43,"endTime":1373.55,"body":"and if you can assert that you"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1370.43,"endTime":1373.55,"body":"have followed those procedures"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1373.55,"endTime":1376.76,"body":"then that can count as part"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1373.55,"endTime":1376.76,"body":"of your informant claim."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1376.76,"endTime":1379.29,"body":"So, there is are a lot"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1376.76,"endTime":1379.29,"body":"of questions about that"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1379.29,"endTime":1383.95,"body":"but it's a way that we are"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1379.29,"endTime":1383.95,"body":"trying to open the door to new,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1383.95,"endTime":1386.34,"body":"to additional types"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1383.95,"endTime":1386.34,"body":"of accessibility guidance."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1386.34,"endTime":1388.99,"body":"Yeah, and"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1386.34,"endTime":1388.99,"body":"the other thing is that"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1388.99,"endTime":1390.61,"body":"because we are"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1388.99,"endTime":1390.61,"body":"all neuro divergent"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1390.61,"endTime":1393.94,"body":"we are unsuitable"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1390.61,"endTime":1393.94,"body":"to the ways of working"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1393.94,"endTime":1397.82,"body":"and especially"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1393.94,"endTime":1397.82,"body":"the ADHDers amongst us"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1397.82,"endTime":1399.69,"body":"for sitting on long calls,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1399.69,"endTime":1403.22,"body":"discussing things and being"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1399.69,"endTime":1403.22,"body":"the experts of each other"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1403.22,"endTime":1407.16,"body":"and not stepping on each other"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1403.22,"endTime":1407.16,"body":"and blurting stuff out."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1407.16,"endTime":1411.08,"body":"So, just you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1411.08,"endTime":1415.14,"body":"we're innately"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1411.08,"endTime":1415.14,"body":"unsuited to the patience"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1415.14,"endTime":1418.28,"body":"that is required to standards"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1415.14,"endTime":1418.28,"body":"creation in general."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1422.41,"endTime":1424.43,"body":"So Michael,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1424.43,"endTime":1427.47,"body":"you mentioned that you started"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1424.43,"endTime":1427.47,"body":"working with organisation"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1428.38,"endTime":1432.41,"body":"your organisation in 2006,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1428.38,"endTime":1432.41,"body":"in if I'm not mistaken."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1433.85,"endTime":1437.66,"body":"There was no iPhone in 2006."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1433.85,"endTime":1437.66,"body":"It came in, in 2007."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1438.75,"endTime":1441.88,"body":"So, I'm sure the young Michael"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1438.75,"endTime":1441.88,"body":"was not expecting"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1441.88,"endTime":1446.08,"body":"the boom"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1441.88,"endTime":1446.08,"body":"of the mobile world at the time."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1446.08,"endTime":1449.13,"body":"What I want to ask you"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1446.08,"endTime":1449.13,"body":"reflect on in your career"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1450.58,"endTime":1456.37,"body":"and see what type of advice"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1450.58,"endTime":1456.37,"body":"would you give to people"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1456.37,"endTime":1459.4,"body":"who are joining today to work"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1456.37,"endTime":1459.4,"body":"in the space of accessibility"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1459.4,"endTime":1462.67,"body":"because we need"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1459.4,"endTime":1462.67,"body":"more people, definitely."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1462.67,"endTime":1465.39,"body":"And what advice"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1462.67,"endTime":1465.39,"body":"would you give them"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1465.39,"endTime":1470.14,"body":"and how could they engage"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1465.39,"endTime":1470.14,"body":"with W3C as well"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1470.14,"endTime":1474.18,"body":"because we need"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1470.14,"endTime":1474.18,"body":"to renew the people"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1474.18,"endTime":1476.97,"body":"that are in the different panels"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1474.18,"endTime":1476.97,"body":"and are able to count it"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1476.97,"endTime":1479.65,"body":"but what are your takes"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1476.97,"endTime":1479.65,"body":"in these topics?"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1482.73,"endTime":1486.83,"body":"Yeah, so we didn't have,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1490.78,"endTime":1493.81,"body":"I'm not sure what the state"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1490.78,"endTime":1493.81,"body":"of mobile phones was in 2006."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1493.81,"endTime":1495.5,"body":"Mobile phones"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1493.81,"endTime":1495.5,"body":"were on our radar,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1495.5,"endTime":1497.6,"body":"but I don't think"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1495.5,"endTime":1497.6,"body":"any of us predicted"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1497.6,"endTime":1500.25,"body":"that they would be used"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1497.6,"endTime":1500.25,"body":"in the way they are now."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1500.25,"endTime":1501.85,"body":"Certainly not so quickly."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1502.72,"endTime":1507.97,"body":"And you know, that's for me"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1502.72,"endTime":1507.97,"body":"as a professional,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1507.97,"endTime":1510.15,"body":"it's always fun to see"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1507.97,"endTime":1510.15,"body":"how things evolve."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1510.82,"endTime":1513.36,"body":"That's one of the exciting"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1510.82,"endTime":1513.36,"body":"things about being involved"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1513.36,"endTime":1515.08,"body":"in this work"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1513.36,"endTime":1515.08,"body":"and this organisation,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1515.08,"endTime":1518.55,"body":"as you're seeing"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1515.08,"endTime":1518.55,"body":"the evolution of technology"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1518.55,"endTime":1520.15,"body":"and perhaps"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1518.55,"endTime":1520.15,"body":"contributing to it."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1520.95,"endTime":1524.46,"body":"You know, I personally think"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1520.95,"endTime":1524.46,"body":"I came into the job"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1524.46,"endTime":1528.01,"body":"with a pretty strong"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1524.46,"endTime":1528.01,"body":"knowledge of you know,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1528.01,"endTime":1529.56,"body":"web accessibility techniques"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1529.56,"endTime":1532.1,"body":"of the day and technologies"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1529.56,"endTime":1532.1,"body":"of the day."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1533.83,"endTime":1537.44,"body":"And, you know from"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1533.83,"endTime":1537.44,"body":"that knowledge I would say"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1537.44,"endTime":1541.48,"body":"that I had a strong"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1537.44,"endTime":1541.48,"body":"knowledge of you know,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1541.48,"endTime":1543.48,"body":"what I call principles"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1541.48,"endTime":1543.48,"body":"of accessibility."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1543.48,"endTime":1545.83,"body":"What are the sorts of issues"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1545.83,"endTime":1550.17,"body":"that could become accessibility"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1545.83,"endTime":1550.17,"body":"challenges and over time"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1550.17,"endTime":1552.92,"body":"I've relied on that knowledge"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1550.17,"endTime":1552.92,"body":"more and more and less"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1552.92,"endTime":1555.57,"body":"and less on my specific"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1552.92,"endTime":1555.57,"body":"technology knowledge"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1555.57,"endTime":1557.72,"body":"of what is going on"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1555.57,"endTime":1557.72,"body":"in the world right now."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1558.91,"endTime":1561.81,"body":"I try to stay on top of it,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1558.91,"endTime":1561.81,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1561.81,"endTime":1564.0,"body":"but there is a lot"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1561.81,"endTime":1564.0,"body":"going on you know"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1564.0,"endTime":1565.28,"body":"and there is a lot"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1565.28,"endTime":1567.24,"body":"of interesting"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1565.28,"endTime":1567.24,"body":"engineering going on."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1570.39,"endTime":1574.3,"body":"For people getting"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1570.39,"endTime":1574.3,"body":"into the field,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1574.3,"endTime":1578.51,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1574.3,"endTime":1578.51,"body":"I do think that that is a reason"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1578.51,"endTime":1580.13,"body":"that is an interesting field"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1578.51,"endTime":1580.13,"body":"to get into."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1580.13,"endTime":1583.02,"body":"You know, there is"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1580.13,"endTime":1583.02,"body":"continual evolution"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1583.02,"endTime":1587.38,"body":"both on how we can solve"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1583.02,"endTime":1587.38,"body":"accessibility challenges"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1588.86,"endTime":1593.4,"body":"but how we address"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1588.86,"endTime":1593.4,"body":"new accessibility challenges,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1594.53,"endTime":1599.86,"body":"you know which are, there is"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1594.53,"endTime":1599.86,"body":"always continuing work"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1600.39,"endTime":1605.76,"body":"in that"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1600.39,"endTime":1605.76,"body":"and web accessibility work,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1605.76,"endTime":1610.98,"body":"you know also you know brings"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1605.76,"endTime":1610.98,"body":"a greater reach to the web."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1610.98,"endTime":1613.8,"body":"So, I think it's something"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1610.98,"endTime":1613.8,"body":"that a lot of people"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1613.8,"endTime":1615.5,"body":"should see value"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1613.8,"endTime":1615.5,"body":"in working in."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1617.81,"endTime":1620.16,"body":"Education and training"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1617.81,"endTime":1620.16,"body":"are really important,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1621.03,"endTime":1622.99,"body":"you know, we know"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1621.03,"endTime":1622.99,"body":"in the accessibility field"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1622.99,"endTime":1624.91,"body":"we have been trying to get"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1622.99,"endTime":1624.91,"body":"accessibility work"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1624.91,"endTime":1626.95,"body":"into curricula"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1626.95,"endTime":1629.78,"body":"and there have been"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1626.95,"endTime":1629.78,"body":"some efforts towards it"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1629.78,"endTime":1632.06,"body":"but it's not as widespread"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1629.78,"endTime":1632.06,"body":"as we would like."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1633.77,"endTime":1637.26,"body":"So, you know, my advice"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1633.77,"endTime":1637.26,"body":"to people first of all"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1637.26,"endTime":1640.16,"body":"is to seek programmes"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1637.26,"endTime":1640.16,"body":"that offer that"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1640.78,"endTime":1644.81,"body":"and to work with programmes"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1640.78,"endTime":1644.81,"body":"that you're in to build that"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1646.33,"endTime":1652.04,"body":"and I think that will have"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1646.33,"endTime":1652.04,"body":"the greatest single impact"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1652.04,"endTime":1656.11,"body":"in approving accessibility"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1652.04,"endTime":1656.11,"body":"competence in the industry"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1656.11,"endTime":1660.64,"body":"and that in turn will circle"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1656.11,"endTime":1660.64,"body":"back to you know awareness"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1661.61,"endTime":1664.459,"body":"and work in advancing the field"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1661.61,"endTime":1664.459,"body":"going forward, I believe."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1665.88,"endTime":1667.5,"body":"Just to follow on that Michael,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1668.85,"endTime":1671.45,"body":"let's say when you were"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1668.85,"endTime":1671.45,"body":"meeting people in 2006"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1671.45,"endTime":1673.14,"body":"and when you meet people today,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1674.02,"endTime":1676.23,"body":"what evolution"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1674.02,"endTime":1676.23,"body":"have you identified"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1676.23,"endTime":1678.08,"body":"when you have to explain"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1676.23,"endTime":1678.08,"body":"what you do?"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1679.94,"endTime":1683.79,"body":"Well, you know most people"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1684.69,"endTime":1686.52,"body":"are not going to understand"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1686.52,"endTime":1688.73,"body":"any technical explanation"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1686.52,"endTime":1688.73,"body":"of what I do,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1688.73,"endTime":1691.57,"body":"so I just say I work"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1688.73,"endTime":1691.57,"body":"to make the web accessible"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1691.57,"endTime":1692.81,"body":"to people with disabilities."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1692.81,"endTime":1696.75,"body":"But if somebody"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1692.81,"endTime":1696.75,"body":"does press for details,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1698.57,"endTime":1701.5,"body":"you know I think at the time"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1698.57,"endTime":1701.5,"body":"I would have talked a lot more"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1701.5,"endTime":1706.64,"body":"about the importance of WCAG2"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1701.5,"endTime":1706.64,"body":"and you know,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1706.64,"endTime":1713.48,"body":"about the importance of paying"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1706.64,"endTime":1713.48,"body":"attention to accessibility"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1713.48,"endTime":1717.1,"body":"from the ground"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1713.48,"endTime":1717.1,"body":"up in the site design"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1717.1,"endTime":1720.09,"body":"because of the difficulty"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1717.1,"endTime":1720.09,"body":"of doing it after the fact."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1721.42,"endTime":1724.47,"body":"So, it would have been,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1721.42,"endTime":1724.47,"body":"I think very technical focused."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1725.49,"endTime":1728.0,"body":"If I'm trying to tell"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1725.49,"endTime":1728.0,"body":"somebody my job now,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1728.71,"endTime":1731.62,"body":"I can talk about all"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1728.71,"endTime":1731.62,"body":"the interesting technologies"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1731.62,"endTime":1734.4,"body":"that we have been looking at"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1731.62,"endTime":1734.4,"body":"with an accessibility angle,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1734.4,"endTime":1738.01,"body":"we have looked at amens"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1734.4,"endTime":1738.01,"body":"and vehicles"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1738.01,"endTime":1739.61,"body":"and you know,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1738.01,"endTime":1739.61,"body":"web of things."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1740.34,"endTime":1744.73,"body":"You know machine learning,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1740.34,"endTime":1744.73,"body":"you know, it's fascinating."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1744.73,"endTime":1748.78,"body":"And you know, we have you know"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1744.73,"endTime":1748.78,"body":"specific pieces of guidance"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1748.78,"endTime":1750.38,"body":"related to all of that."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1751.33,"endTime":1757.75,"body":"You know, I can also say"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1751.33,"endTime":1757.75,"body":"that you know back in 2006,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1758.7,"endTime":1760.52,"body":"somebody who was very much"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1760.52,"endTime":1764.5,"body":"a part of the web accessibility"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1760.52,"endTime":1764.5,"body":"community would say oh,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1764.5,"endTime":1768.47,"body":"W3C I've heard it or you're"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1764.5,"endTime":1768.47,"body":"working on WCAG that is cool."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1769.47,"endTime":1773.66,"body":"But, you know,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1769.47,"endTime":1773.66,"body":"now I can say I've worked"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1773.66,"endTime":1776.1,"body":"on the web"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1773.66,"endTime":1776.1,"body":"accessibility guidelines"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1776.1,"endTime":1777.41,"body":"and people can say oh yeah"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1777.41,"endTime":1779.81,"body":"I remember seeing your name"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1777.41,"endTime":1779.81,"body":"at the top of there."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1780.82,"endTime":1784.63,"body":"So you know, people,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1780.82,"endTime":1784.63,"body":"there is a lot more awareness"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1784.63,"endTime":1786.59,"body":"just in general of the work"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1784.63,"endTime":1786.59,"body":"that we do."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1787.62,"endTime":1795.04,"body":"I think probably because in part"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1787.62,"endTime":1795.04,"body":"of the stick of the legal side"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1795.67,"endTime":1798.32,"body":"but also I think due to a lot"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1795.67,"endTime":1798.32,"body":"of successful outreach"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1798.32,"endTime":1800.119,"body":"from various parts"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1798.32,"endTime":1800.119,"body":"of the community."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1801.03,"endTime":1804.26,"body":"So yeah, maybe that's one"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1801.03,"endTime":1804.26,"body":"of the biggest differences."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1806.44,"endTime":1807.73,"body":"Excellent."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1807.73,"endTime":1811.28,"body":"I mean, I think yes, the world"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1807.73,"endTime":1811.28,"body":"has changed significantly."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1811.28,"endTime":1815.23,"body":"You mentioned AI and machine"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1811.28,"endTime":1815.23,"body":"learning and obviously,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1816.66,"endTime":1821.54,"body":"Chat GPT has just arrived"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1816.66,"endTime":1821.54,"body":"in people's consciousness,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1822.07,"endTime":1824.83,"body":"potentially has"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1822.07,"endTime":1824.83,"body":"huge implications"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1824.83,"endTime":1831.67,"body":"for all kinds of technologies,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1824.83,"endTime":1831.67,"body":"including accessibility so,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1831.67,"endTime":1836.15,"body":"I think that there is a tonne"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1831.67,"endTime":1836.15,"body":"of stuff to be looked at there."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1838.22,"endTime":1841.06,"body":"I came across"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1838.22,"endTime":1841.06,"body":"something yesterday"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1841.06,"endTime":1847.15,"body":"that looked really interesting"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1841.06,"endTime":1847.15,"body":"for supporting people with needs"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1848.35,"endTime":1850.78,"body":"that was based"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1848.35,"endTime":1850.78,"body":"upon space braiding."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1852.44,"endTime":1855.32,"body":"So, this was a brilliant idea,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1855.97,"endTime":1861.85,"body":"so, some astrophysicist had been"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1855.97,"endTime":1861.85,"body":"working on communications,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1861.85,"endTime":1863.37,"body":"interplanetary communications."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1863.37,"endTime":1865.14,"body":"So, the delay"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1863.37,"endTime":1865.14,"body":"that you have"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1867.17,"endTime":1870.8,"body":"when you are in near space orbit"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1867.17,"endTime":1870.8,"body":"is not too bad."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1870.8,"endTime":1872.49,"body":"You can have a conversation"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1870.8,"endTime":1872.49,"body":"on the moon,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1872.49,"endTime":1875.54,"body":"it's still just about okay."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1872.49,"endTime":1875.54,"body":"Mars is impossible."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1876.32,"endTime":1878.2,"body":"So, they are looking"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1876.32,"endTime":1878.2,"body":"at ways of doing that"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1878.2,"endTime":1881.0,"body":"and they actually found"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1878.2,"endTime":1881.0,"body":"that also when developed"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1881.0,"endTime":1884.6,"body":"this braiding technique"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1881.0,"endTime":1884.6,"body":"for having conversations,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1884.6,"endTime":1890.3,"body":"it also worked for you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1891.73,"endTime":1894.65,"body":"for making conversations"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1891.73,"endTime":1894.65,"body":"for introverts"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1894.65,"endTime":1897.87,"body":"and people with cognitive"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1894.65,"endTime":1897.87,"body":"accessibility needs and so on."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1897.87,"endTime":1901.81,"body":"So, I think that the joy"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1897.87,"endTime":1901.81,"body":"of working in accessibility"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1901.81,"endTime":1903.79,"body":"and in our field is the fact"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1901.81,"endTime":1903.79,"body":"that we get to play"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1903.79,"endTime":1905.66,"body":"with all of these new things."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1905.66,"endTime":1907.91,"body":"At the same time,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1905.66,"endTime":1907.91,"body":"we had the challenge"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1907.91,"endTime":1911.76,"body":"of trying to make all of these"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1907.91,"endTime":1911.76,"body":"new things accessible"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1912.38,"endTime":1916.53,"body":"because you know quite often,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1912.38,"endTime":1916.53,"body":"you know, I don't think people,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1916.53,"endTime":1918.08,"body":"we were designing Chat GBT"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1918.08,"endTime":1921.31,"body":"were particularly thinking"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1918.08,"endTime":1921.31,"body":"about accessibility"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1922.24,"endTime":1923.47,"body":"when they were doing it."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1923.47,"endTime":1927.48,"body":"So, I think there is"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1923.47,"endTime":1927.48,"body":"a whole sort of need"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1927.48,"endTime":1930.91,"body":"to inculcate the need to think"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1927.48,"endTime":1930.91,"body":"about this stuff"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1930.91,"endTime":1934.64,"body":"still in the way"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1930.91,"endTime":1934.64,"body":"that we teach people"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1934.64,"endTime":1936.439,"body":"and encourage people"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1934.64,"endTime":1936.439,"body":"to design tech."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1937.96,"endTime":1943.47,"body":"Yeah, and the authoring"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1937.96,"endTime":1943.47,"body":"tool accessibility guidelines"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1943.47,"endTime":1947.49,"body":"connects to that,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1943.47,"endTime":1947.49,"body":"they went to a recommendation,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1947.49,"endTime":1951.71,"body":"I don't remember the year"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1947.49,"endTime":1951.71,"body":"but sometime after WCAG2.0"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1952.46,"endTime":1956.27,"body":"and then we haven't had scope"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1952.46,"endTime":1956.27,"body":"to update them since then."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1956.27,"endTime":1960.86,"body":"But, that is something"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1956.27,"endTime":1960.86,"body":"that's on our radar"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1960.86,"endTime":1962.46,"body":"as needing further work."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1963.21,"endTime":1966.44,"body":"But, we don't know exactly"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1963.21,"endTime":1966.44,"body":"how that might happen."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1967.56,"endTime":1971.34,"body":"But, you know, there were"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1967.56,"endTime":1971.34,"body":"a number of sites"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1971.34,"endTime":1973.94,"body":"that you know incorporated"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1971.34,"endTime":1973.94,"body":"those principles at the time."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1973.94,"endTime":1977.34,"body":"But were another generation"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1973.94,"endTime":1977.34,"body":"or two later"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1977.34,"endTime":1979.48,"body":"and a refresh"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":1977.34,"endTime":1979.48,"body":"is probably needed."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1981.16,"endTime":1983.06,"body":"Yeah, excellent."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1983.06,"endTime":1987.93,"body":"I agree that actually ATAG"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1983.06,"endTime":1987.93,"body":"is the lesser known"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1987.93,"endTime":1989.87,"body":"of the accessibility standards"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1989.87,"endTime":1992.33,"body":"but one that has"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1989.87,"endTime":1992.33,"body":"such a huge impact,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1992.33,"endTime":1994.28,"body":"if people implement it."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1994.28,"endTime":2001.25,"body":"So, yeah and does that also"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1994.28,"endTime":2001.25,"body":"fall under your remit"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2002.1,"endTime":2004.22,"body":"that you're working on"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2002.1,"endTime":2004.22,"body":"at the moment"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2004.22,"endTime":2006.47,"body":"or is it something"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2004.22,"endTime":2006.47,"body":"that you're sort of side"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2006.47,"endTime":2009.59,"body":"working on you know"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2006.47,"endTime":2009.59,"body":"aligned with."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2011.17,"endTime":2016.01,"body":"How W3C makes"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2011.17,"endTime":2016.01,"body":"its decisions so,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2016.01,"endTime":2019.35,"body":"it's something that we see that"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2019.35,"endTime":2021.399,"body":"there is some work"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2019.35,"endTime":2021.399,"body":"needing to be done on."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2022.02,"endTime":2024.81,"body":"But work to be done in W3C"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2022.02,"endTime":2024.81,"body":"has to be done"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2024.81,"endTime":2028.85,"body":"in a working group"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2024.81,"endTime":2028.85,"body":"that sees a charter"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2028.85,"endTime":2031.28,"body":"that is voted on"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2028.85,"endTime":2031.28,"body":"by the advisory committee"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2031.28,"endTime":2034.18,"body":"which are representatives"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2031.28,"endTime":2034.18,"body":"of the members of the consortium"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2034.69,"endTime":2039.34,"body":"and basically some years ago"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2034.69,"endTime":2039.34,"body":"they declined to recharter"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2039.34,"endTime":2040.989,"body":"the authoring tools"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2039.34,"endTime":2040.989,"body":"working group"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2042.43,"endTime":2047.43,"body":"and we have kept"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2042.43,"endTime":2047.43,"body":"a sort of an ember of scope"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2047.43,"endTime":2051.39,"body":"by saying in the accessibility"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2047.43,"endTime":2051.39,"body":"guidelines working group charter"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2051.39,"endTime":2054.18,"body":"that we may touch that space"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2051.39,"endTime":2054.18,"body":"at the very least,"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2054.18,"endTime":2056.18,"body":"we might publish"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2054.18,"endTime":2056.18,"body":"a rata for ATAG."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2057.36,"endTime":2061.27,"body":"And there is an ember"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2057.36,"endTime":2061.27,"body":"keeping it alive in the space"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2061.27,"endTime":2065.03,"body":"and we, I think would like"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2061.27,"endTime":2065.03,"body":"to fan the ember."},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2065.03,"endTime":2068.12,"body":"But I'm not sure when"},{"speaker":"MICHAEL","startTime":2065.03,"endTime":2068.12,"body":"or how at this moment."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2068.79,"endTime":2072.06,"body":"Okay and that's a tough question"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2072.06,"endTime":2073.97,"body":"and good answer."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2073.97,"endTime":2075.67,"body":"So, we have reached"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2073.97,"endTime":2075.67,"body":"the end of our time."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2075.67,"endTime":2077.86,"body":"I think it's been"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2075.67,"endTime":2077.86,"body":"a super interesting chat."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2077.86,"endTime":2083.62,"body":"We are really pleased"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2077.86,"endTime":2083.62,"body":"to have you on and look forward"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2083.62,"endTime":2086.5,"body":"to the engagement on Twitter"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2083.62,"endTime":2086.5,"body":"with the community."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2087.21,"endTime":2093.67,"body":"We'll be using Axschat account"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2087.21,"endTime":2093.67,"body":"to provide your answers"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2093.67,"endTime":2096.87,"body":"because you're not"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2093.67,"endTime":2096.87,"body":"on Twitter anymore."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2096.87,"endTime":2099.38,"body":"Some people have migrated"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2096.87,"endTime":2099.38,"body":"to other platforms."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2099.38,"endTime":2102.25,"body":"We need to thank Amazon"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2099.38,"endTime":2102.25,"body":"and MyClearText"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2102.25,"endTime":2104.82,"body":"for keeping us on air"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2102.25,"endTime":2104.82,"body":"and captioned"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2105.44,"endTime":2109.78,"body":"and look forward to joining you"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2105.44,"endTime":2109.78,"body":"on Twitter shortly."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2109.78,"endTime":2113.99,"body":"Thank you, Michael."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2109.78,"endTime":2113.99,"body":"It's been a real pleasure."}]}