{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.42,"endTime":1.66,"body":"AXSCHAT"},{"startTime":0.42,"endTime":1.66,"body":"Partial Inclusion"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1.66,"endTime":3.29,"body":"Hello and welcome to Axschat."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":3.29,"endTime":5.44,"body":"And today we have a topic"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":3.29,"endTime":5.44,"body":"that's been put forward"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":5.44,"endTime":6.77,"body":"by Debra"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":5.44,"endTime":6.77,"body":"put forward by Debra,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":6.77,"endTime":11.06,"body":"which is talking about"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":6.77,"endTime":11.06,"body":"the idea of partial inclusion."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":11.06,"endTime":13.52,"body":"Now, I am going to hand"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":11.06,"endTime":13.52,"body":"straight over to Debra,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":13.52,"endTime":16.24,"body":"who I think you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":13.52,"endTime":16.24,"body":"so needs no introduction."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":16.24,"endTime":19.21,"body":"And Debra, tell us,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":16.24,"endTime":19.21,"body":"what do you mean by this?"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":19.21,"endTime":20.55,"body":"Well, and I also want to say"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":20.55,"endTime":23.11,"body":"that we are also playing"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":20.55,"endTime":23.11,"body":"around with you know,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":23.11,"endTime":26.11,"body":"we always want to update"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":23.11,"endTime":26.11,"body":"what we are doing as Axschat."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":26.11,"endTime":27.88,"body":"I believe we are"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":26.11,"endTime":27.88,"body":"on our tenth year,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":27.88,"endTime":31.04,"body":"so I am hoping that we do"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":27.88,"endTime":31.04,"body":"more of these conversations,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":31.04,"endTime":32.36,"body":"where it's just"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":31.04,"endTime":32.36,"body":"the three of us"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":32.36,"endTime":35.29,"body":"because, you know, we are"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":32.36,"endTime":35.29,"body":"all leaders in our own right"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":35.29,"endTime":38.61,"body":"and I think that it's sometimes"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":35.29,"endTime":38.61,"body":"really interesting"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":38.61,"endTime":40.67,"body":"just hearing"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":38.61,"endTime":40.67,"body":"from the three of us"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":40.67,"endTime":42.57,"body":"and I'm excited"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":40.67,"endTime":42.57,"body":"about the conversation."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":42.57,"endTime":45.06,"body":"But I recently wrote"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":42.57,"endTime":45.06,"body":"a blog on LinkedIn"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":45.06,"endTime":47.33,"body":"and it was called,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":45.06,"endTime":47.33,"body":"\"Partial Inclusion,\""},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":47.33,"endTime":49.92,"body":"and the reason"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":47.33,"endTime":49.92,"body":"why I wrote it is,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":49.92,"endTime":52.66,"body":"I keep hearing people"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":49.92,"endTime":52.66,"body":"say the same thing,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":52.66,"endTime":55.26,"body":"that by the way,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":52.66,"endTime":55.26,"body":"I'm also guilty of saying,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":55.26,"endTime":56.77,"body":"many, many, many times"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":56.77,"endTime":58.84,"body":"but I just stop"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":56.77,"endTime":58.84,"body":"saying it after a while,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":58.84,"endTime":63.85,"body":"when I started realising"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":58.84,"endTime":63.85,"body":"the errors of what I was saying."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":63.85,"endTime":65.54,"body":"And so, what I'm talking about,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":65.54,"endTime":66.87,"body":"I was talking to somebody"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":65.54,"endTime":66.87,"body":"the other day"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":66.87,"endTime":68.14,"body":"and they said, you know,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":66.87,"endTime":68.14,"body":"Debra,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":68.14,"endTime":70.55,"body":"I don't know why these corporate"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":68.14,"endTime":70.55,"body":"brands don't understand"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":70.55,"endTime":72.96,"body":"that if do not include"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":70.55,"endTime":72.96,"body":"people with disabilities,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":72.96,"endTime":75.16,"body":"you're leaving tonnes"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":72.96,"endTime":75.16,"body":"of money on the table."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":75.16,"endTime":77.04,"body":"You're just leaving it, wasted,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":77.04,"endTime":79.27,"body":"these people are just not"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":77.04,"endTime":79.27,"body":"being included at all"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":79.27,"endTime":81.77,"body":"and you're just losing"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":79.27,"endTime":81.77,"body":"of trillions of dollars."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":81.77,"endTime":83.38,"body":"It's ridiculous"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":81.77,"endTime":83.38,"body":"why don't you care"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":83.38,"endTime":85.2,"body":"about the money to include us."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":85.2,"endTime":88.93,"body":"Well, the reality is,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":85.2,"endTime":88.93,"body":"that is not really true."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":88.93,"endTime":91.71,"body":"What is happening"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":88.93,"endTime":91.71,"body":"is we are partially included"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":93.45,"endTime":95.59,"body":"because the reality"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":93.45,"endTime":95.59,"body":"is people with disabilities,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":95.59,"endTime":97.39,"body":"yes, they are Billion Strong,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":97.39,"endTime":99.98,"body":"but the reality is"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":97.39,"endTime":99.98,"body":"we still have to bank"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":99.98,"endTime":102.279,"body":"and we still have to,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":99.98,"endTime":102.279,"body":"we want to go to school."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":103.45,"endTime":105.99,"body":"We still have to, you know,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":103.45,"endTime":105.99,"body":"work in the office"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":105.99,"endTime":108.27,"body":"and we want to go to libraries"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":105.99,"endTime":108.27,"body":"and we want to go out to eat"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":108.27,"endTime":111.43,"body":"and we want to be"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":108.27,"endTime":111.43,"body":"part of society."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":111.43,"endTime":115.9,"body":"But society makes it so much"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":111.43,"endTime":115.9,"body":"harder for us to be part of this"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":115.9,"endTime":119.69,"body":"by making banks that are not"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":115.9,"endTime":119.69,"body":"really accessible to us and so,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":119.69,"endTime":122.44,"body":"we have to do"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":119.69,"endTime":122.44,"body":"all these works around"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":122.44,"endTime":124.98,"body":"to get basic services"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":122.44,"endTime":124.98,"body":"from the bank"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":124.98,"endTime":126.73,"body":"and forget about"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":124.98,"endTime":126.73,"body":"upselling us bank,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":126.73,"endTime":129.59,"body":"we can barely do"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":126.73,"endTime":129.59,"body":"what we critically need to do"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":129.59,"endTime":132.94,"body":"because you've made it"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":129.59,"endTime":132.94,"body":"so hard for us humans,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":132.94,"endTime":135.84,"body":"sometimes with disabilities"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":132.94,"endTime":135.84,"body":"to use your services."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":135.84,"endTime":140.26,"body":"So, it is not total exclusion."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":140.26,"endTime":145.87,"body":"It's partial inclusion"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":140.26,"endTime":145.87,"body":"and partial exclusion"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":145.87,"endTime":148.87,"body":"and the reality"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":145.87,"endTime":148.87,"body":"is this is not good for society"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":148.87,"endTime":151.33,"body":"or any of our business"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":148.87,"endTime":151.33,"body":"or brands either."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":151.33,"endTime":155.24,"body":"And so, I posted that,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":151.33,"endTime":155.24,"body":"just because I was curious"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":155.24,"endTime":157.76,"body":"if other people"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":155.24,"endTime":157.76,"body":"also felt this way."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":157.76,"endTime":161.2,"body":"And it really got a lot"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":157.76,"endTime":161.2,"body":"of really powerful responses"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":161.2,"endTime":163.16,"body":"and I think we need"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":161.2,"endTime":163.16,"body":"to talk about it more"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":163.16,"endTime":166.38,"body":"because the reality"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":163.16,"endTime":166.38,"body":"is partial inclusion,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":167.01,"endTime":171.0,"body":"it also has, you know,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":167.01,"endTime":171.0,"body":"the way it lays out,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":171.0,"endTime":175.06,"body":"it is very different from you're"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":171.0,"endTime":175.06,"body":"fully excluded, okay fine."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":175.06,"endTime":176.34,"body":"Well, you have been"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":175.06,"endTime":176.34,"body":"excluded forever"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":176.34,"endTime":179.31,"body":"so we are going to give you"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":176.34,"endTime":179.31,"body":"this tiny little thing over here"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":179.31,"endTime":181.11,"body":"and you're supposed"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":179.31,"endTime":181.11,"body":"to be grateful."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":181.11,"endTime":182.48,"body":"We want to be fully."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":182.48,"endTime":184.41,"body":"We want to be"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":182.48,"endTime":184.41,"body":"meaningfully included"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":184.41,"endTime":186.72,"body":"and so I think that's why"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":184.41,"endTime":186.72,"body":"it's important to dig"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":186.72,"endTime":188.81,"body":"into these topics"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":186.72,"endTime":188.81,"body":"a little bit deeper now."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":188.81,"endTime":191.89,"body":"So, what do you think"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":188.81,"endTime":191.89,"body":"about that, Antonio?"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":192.83,"endTime":195.2,"body":"So, Debra I've"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":192.83,"endTime":195.2,"body":"a question for you,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":195.2,"endTime":198.48,"body":"how do you think"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":195.2,"endTime":198.48,"body":"the current legislation"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":198.48,"endTime":201.62,"body":"that we have is actually,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":202.57,"endTime":207.58,"body":"helps us and entities,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":207.58,"endTime":210.32,"body":"not to fully include"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":207.58,"endTime":210.32,"body":"people with disabilities,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":210.32,"endTime":213.11,"body":"isn't legislation responsible"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":213.11,"endTime":217.5,"body":"for people only doing"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":213.11,"endTime":217.5,"body":"that partial part of inclusion?"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":217.5,"endTime":218.87,"body":"Yes, I agree."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":218.87,"endTime":224.7,"body":"I think that, we are first"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":218.87,"endTime":224.7,"body":"of all, legislation failing us"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":224.7,"endTime":227.75,"body":"because for example,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":224.7,"endTime":227.75,"body":"I love being American,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":227.75,"endTime":230.47,"body":"I love being American,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":227.75,"endTime":230.47,"body":"but I really don't like"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":230.47,"endTime":233.44,"body":"how we have defined disabilities"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":230.47,"endTime":233.44,"body":"in the United States."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":233.44,"endTime":236.47,"body":"We have made it so broad"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":233.44,"endTime":236.47,"body":"and I get it,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":236.47,"endTime":238.79,"body":"people don't want to be"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":236.47,"endTime":238.79,"body":"disenfranchised and left out,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":238.79,"endTime":240.74,"body":"but we've made it so broad."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":240.74,"endTime":243.79,"body":"Even the UN CRPD,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":240.74,"endTime":243.79,"body":"sometimes I wonder,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":244.76,"endTime":247.19,"body":"the definitions are so broad"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":244.76,"endTime":247.19,"body":"that actually,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":247.19,"endTime":249.62,"body":"we wind up leaving"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":247.19,"endTime":249.62,"body":"so many more people out"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":249.62,"endTime":254.28,"body":"and not really being able"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":249.62,"endTime":254.28,"body":"to focus on the real problem"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":254.28,"endTime":256.22,"body":"because there are people"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":254.28,"endTime":256.22,"body":"with disabilities,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":256.22,"endTime":257.89,"body":"certain types of disabilities,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":257.89,"endTime":261.46,"body":"that are definitely left"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":257.89,"endTime":261.46,"body":"out in record numbers,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":261.46,"endTime":264.12,"body":"compared to other parts"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":261.46,"endTime":264.12,"body":"of the community that may be,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":264.12,"endTime":265.76,"body":"we haven't been"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":264.12,"endTime":265.76,"body":"left out as much."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":265.76,"endTime":267.62,"body":"Someone like me,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":265.76,"endTime":267.62,"body":"that's neurodiverse."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":268.13,"endTime":271.48,"body":"I wasn't left out but I wasn't"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":268.13,"endTime":271.48,"body":"as meaningfully included,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":271.48,"endTime":273.379,"body":"as I could've been,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":271.48,"endTime":273.379,"body":"to add more value."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":273.88,"endTime":276.23,"body":"But it was because"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":273.88,"endTime":276.23,"body":"I was just little,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":277.25,"endTime":278.57,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":277.25,"endTime":278.57,"body":"too neurodiverse,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":278.57,"endTime":280.49,"body":"too talkative,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":278.57,"endTime":280.49,"body":"too this, too that."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":281.53,"endTime":284.34,"body":"And I haven't been accommodated,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":281.53,"endTime":284.34,"body":"but I didn't even realise"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":284.34,"endTime":286.41,"body":"I was part of the community"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":284.34,"endTime":286.41,"body":"to be accommodated,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":286.41,"endTime":288.97,"body":"blah, blah, blah."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":286.41,"endTime":288.97,"body":"But I still was included."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":289.63,"endTime":291.8,"body":"There were people"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":289.63,"endTime":291.8,"body":"that were never included"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":291.8,"endTime":294.58,"body":"and are still not being"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":291.8,"endTime":294.58,"body":"included and so,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":294.58,"endTime":298.23,"body":"I think the legislation not only"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":294.58,"endTime":298.23,"body":"gives people ways out,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":298.23,"endTime":301.07,"body":"as you're saying,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":298.23,"endTime":301.07,"body":"Antonio and wiggle room"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":301.07,"endTime":303.23,"body":"but it also doesn't even address"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":301.07,"endTime":303.23,"body":"the problem"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":303.23,"endTime":304.61,"body":"that we are actually"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":303.23,"endTime":304.61,"body":"trying to solve,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":304.61,"endTime":306.39,"body":"which is true"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":304.61,"endTime":306.39,"body":"meaningful inclusion."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":307.14,"endTime":309.37,"body":"I was talking to"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":307.14,"endTime":309.37,"body":"a person today on Instagram"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":309.37,"endTime":314.38,"body":"that is doing she is going"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":309.37,"endTime":314.38,"body":"to moderate a debate,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":314.38,"endTime":316.32,"body":"a panel in"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":314.38,"endTime":316.32,"body":"the Portuguese television"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":316.32,"endTime":319.28,"body":"about the European"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":316.32,"endTime":319.28,"body":"disability card."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":320.56,"endTime":324.56,"body":"And then, I am engaging"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":320.56,"endTime":324.56,"body":"with many of the people"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":324.56,"endTime":327.68,"body":"who represented"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":324.56,"endTime":327.68,"body":"Portuguese institutions in EU,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":328.21,"endTime":330.84,"body":"in the EU accessible programmes"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":328.21,"endTime":330.84,"body":"or even this,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":331.61,"endTime":334.6,"body":"they are there"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":331.61,"endTime":334.6,"body":"to represent organisations"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":334.6,"endTime":336.73,"body":"and many don't"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":334.6,"endTime":336.73,"body":"identify themselves"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":336.73,"endTime":338.03,"body":"as having a disability."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":338.03,"endTime":340.24,"body":"This has been very common"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":338.03,"endTime":340.24,"body":"in Portugal,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":340.24,"endTime":344.45,"body":"where someone represents"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":340.24,"endTime":344.45,"body":"people with disability"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":345.41,"endTime":348.35,"body":"and they are the ones"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":345.41,"endTime":348.35,"body":"attending all these meetings"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":348.88,"endTime":352.8,"body":"and of course, the problem of,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":348.88,"endTime":352.8,"body":"this is part of the issue"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":352.8,"endTime":355.19,"body":"that also leads"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":352.8,"endTime":355.19,"body":"to partial inclusion"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":355.19,"endTime":358.18,"body":"because people don't sometimes"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":355.19,"endTime":358.18,"body":"you might be in the meeting,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":358.89,"endTime":362.0,"body":"where we might be talking"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":358.89,"endTime":362.0,"body":"or addressing issues"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":362.0,"endTime":363.36,"body":"with people with disabilities"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":363.36,"endTime":366.19,"body":"and a large percentage"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":363.36,"endTime":366.19,"body":"of people in the room"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":366.19,"endTime":367.66,"body":"don't have a disability"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":367.66,"endTime":370.209,"body":"and they are the ones"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":367.66,"endTime":370.209,"body":"representing the communities."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":370.74,"endTime":372.97,"body":"Right and or they"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":370.74,"endTime":372.97,"body":"do have a disability"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":372.97,"endTime":374.34,"body":"but they don't want to admit."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":374.34,"endTime":375.59,"body":"Yes, of course."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":375.59,"endTime":376.82,"body":"For a couple of reasons,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":376.82,"endTime":379.95,"body":"maybe because they think"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":376.82,"endTime":379.95,"body":"if I'm admitting it,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":379.95,"endTime":382.94,"body":"it sounds like I'm just finding"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":379.95,"endTime":382.94,"body":"a reason to be included."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":383.82,"endTime":386.68,"body":"It's just a token disability"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":383.82,"endTime":386.68,"body":"because we're also told that."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":386.68,"endTime":390.1,"body":"Well, your disability is not"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":386.68,"endTime":390.1,"body":"as valuable as my disability."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":390.65,"endTime":393.01,"body":"I remember there have been"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":390.65,"endTime":393.01,"body":"times in my daughter's life,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":393.01,"endTime":396.93,"body":"my daughter with Down Syndrome,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":393.01,"endTime":396.93,"body":"where she was too disabled"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":396.93,"endTime":400.04,"body":"or not disabled enough"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":396.93,"endTime":400.04,"body":"to make some cut."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":400.04,"endTime":404.4,"body":"And I just remember thinking,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":400.04,"endTime":404.4,"body":"this does make sense to me."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":404.4,"endTime":408.92,"body":"And so, yes I think that's also"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":404.4,"endTime":408.92,"body":"a huge part of the partial."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":408.92,"endTime":410.78,"body":"And you know at some point,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":408.92,"endTime":410.78,"body":"Antonio and Neil,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":410.78,"endTime":412.97,"body":"we really do at some point,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":410.78,"endTime":412.97,"body":"have to talk about,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":412.97,"endTime":414.84,"body":"what are the problems"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":412.97,"endTime":414.84,"body":"we are trying to solve"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":414.84,"endTime":417.91,"body":"because it feels like as we"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":414.84,"endTime":417.91,"body":"have been throwing so much at it"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":417.91,"endTime":421.85,"body":"to solve all the problems,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":417.91,"endTime":421.85,"body":"it's starting to feel like we"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":421.85,"endTime":424.69,"body":"are not even solving"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":421.85,"endTime":424.69,"body":"the right problems."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":424.69,"endTime":428.33,"body":"And once again I always say,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":424.69,"endTime":428.33,"body":"I find it fascinating"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":428.33,"endTime":430.17,"body":"and I'm one of them"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":428.33,"endTime":430.17,"body":"that have done this,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":430.17,"endTime":432.32,"body":"that we demand"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":430.17,"endTime":432.32,"body":"the corporations,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":432.32,"endTime":437.05,"body":"we demand the corporations"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":432.32,"endTime":437.05,"body":"solve our societal problems."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":437.05,"endTime":438.97,"body":"We want you"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":437.05,"endTime":438.97,"body":"to solve them right now"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":438.97,"endTime":440.77,"body":"and you want to start"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":438.97,"endTime":440.77,"body":"including us meaningfully."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":440.77,"endTime":442.72,"body":"And you need to fix"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":440.77,"endTime":442.72,"body":"the technology."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":442.72,"endTime":445.9,"body":"But the reality is we have"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":442.72,"endTime":445.9,"body":"all let this happen."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":446.6,"endTime":448.3,"body":"We have all let it happen."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":448.3,"endTime":450.89,"body":"And some of it,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":448.3,"endTime":450.89,"body":"I let happen on my watch too"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":450.89,"endTime":453.81,"body":"because you just feel"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":450.89,"endTime":453.81,"body":"that the problems are too big,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":453.81,"endTime":456.41,"body":"you don't even know"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":453.81,"endTime":456.41,"body":"how to begin to solve them;"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":456.41,"endTime":459.57,"body":"Right. But I think talking about"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":456.41,"endTime":459.57,"body":"what is really going on"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":459.57,"endTime":461.92,"body":"is a good way to start"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":459.57,"endTime":461.92,"body":"talking about this."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":461.92,"endTime":464.29,"body":"We are partially included."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":464.29,"endTime":468.38,"body":"That's why when we,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":464.29,"endTime":468.38,"body":"when you're talking about that,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":468.38,"endTime":470.59,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":468.38,"endTime":470.59,"body":"we don't know where to start,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":470.59,"endTime":473.06,"body":"that is why I get really,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":470.59,"endTime":473.06,"body":"really annoyed"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":473.06,"endTime":475.26,"body":"when the conversation"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":473.06,"endTime":475.26,"body":"starts with standards."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":475.77,"endTime":476.99,"body":"Oh, I agree."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":476.99,"endTime":478.37,"body":"I agree you're right."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":478.37,"endTime":479.57,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":479.57,"endTime":485.72,"body":"So, I think this relates back"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":479.57,"endTime":485.72,"body":"to some of the conversations"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":485.72,"endTime":489.73,"body":"that I had ages ago"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":485.72,"endTime":489.73,"body":"with Kevin Carey,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":489.73,"endTime":491.73,"body":"who used be to be"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":489.73,"endTime":491.73,"body":"the Chair of RNIB"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":491.73,"endTime":497.03,"body":"and he talked about, well yes,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":491.73,"endTime":497.03,"body":"okay, you can have standards"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":497.03,"endTime":499.94,"body":"and they work for things"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":497.03,"endTime":499.94,"body":"like technology"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":499.94,"endTime":501.71,"body":"and inter-operability"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":499.94,"endTime":501.71,"body":"and certain things"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":501.71,"endTime":504.18,"body":"but they don't work for others"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":501.71,"endTime":504.18,"body":"and they don't really give you"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":504.18,"endTime":506.38,"body":"a measure of what it is"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":504.18,"endTime":506.38,"body":"to be included."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":508.23,"endTime":511.09,"body":"He said really"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":508.23,"endTime":511.09,"body":"it's what he called"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":511.09,"endTime":513.41,"body":"and it's kind of"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":511.09,"endTime":513.41,"body":"an academic term,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":513.41,"endTime":516.23,"body":"but peer normative"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":513.41,"endTime":516.23,"body":"equivalence of experience."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":516.23,"endTime":519.15,"body":"So, it's like"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":516.23,"endTime":519.15,"body":"is the experience"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":519.15,"endTime":523.2,"body":"that I have of a product"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":519.15,"endTime":523.2,"body":"or service as good,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":523.2,"endTime":526.94,"body":"as easy as someone else?"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":527.53,"endTime":529.02,"body":"And frankly,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":529.02,"endTime":534.14,"body":"even the technically"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":529.02,"endTime":534.14,"body":"accessible products and services"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":534.14,"endTime":538.5,"body":"don't give you that same"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":534.14,"endTime":538.5,"body":"equivalence a lot of the time."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":538.5,"endTime":542.74,"body":"So, it's not equity."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":538.5,"endTime":542.74,"body":"It's not equal in that way."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":542.74,"endTime":544.23,"body":"And I think that that means"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":544.23,"endTime":548.48,"body":"that even when organisations"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":544.23,"endTime":548.48,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":549.54,"endTime":554.0,"body":"like mine work hard towards,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":549.54,"endTime":554.0,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":554.0,"endTime":557.65,"body":"meeting our legal requirements"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":554.0,"endTime":557.65,"body":"and doing the compliance"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":557.65,"endTime":562.34,"body":"and making sure"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":557.65,"endTime":562.34,"body":"that we do the work to try"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":562.34,"endTime":564.84,"body":"and make everything"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":562.34,"endTime":564.84,"body":"work together,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":564.84,"endTime":567.33,"body":"which in technology"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":564.84,"endTime":567.33,"body":"is actually pretty hard,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":567.33,"endTime":570.33,"body":"when you look at the complexity"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":567.33,"endTime":570.33,"body":"of large organisations."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":571.22,"endTime":573.22,"body":"We still don't give you know"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":573.22,"endTime":576.54,"body":"that equivalence of experience"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":573.22,"endTime":576.54,"body":"a lot of the time."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":576.54,"endTime":579.24,"body":"Other than sometimes,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":576.54,"endTime":579.24,"body":"you know actually an enterprise,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":579.88,"endTime":583.0,"body":"everything is equally crappy"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":579.88,"endTime":583.0,"body":"because it's you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":583.0,"endTime":588.72,"body":"enterprise tech is, you know"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":583.0,"endTime":588.72,"body":"the experience of you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":589.28,"endTime":592.14,"body":"employees in the workplace"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":589.28,"endTime":592.14,"body":"and of technology"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":592.14,"endTime":595.76,"body":"is not as good as some of"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":592.14,"endTime":595.76,"body":"the consumer tech, frankly."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":596.52,"endTime":599.89,"body":"So, you can have"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":596.52,"endTime":599.89,"body":"an equally crappy experience."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":600.41,"endTime":604.48,"body":"So, you can and I think"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":600.41,"endTime":604.48,"body":"that then actually,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":604.48,"endTime":606.47,"body":"even regardless of disability,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":608.68,"endTime":612.23,"body":"it can come down"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":608.68,"endTime":612.23,"body":"to technological literacy"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":613.12,"endTime":617.14,"body":"or your propensity."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":613.12,"endTime":617.14,"body":"You can be partially included."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":617.99,"endTime":620.87,"body":"You know, we partially"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":617.99,"endTime":620.87,"body":"include people in company life"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":621.44,"endTime":623.19,"body":"by putting stuff on channels"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":623.19,"endTime":624.82,"body":"and this is not just"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":623.19,"endTime":624.82,"body":"my organisation but"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":624.82,"endTime":626.09,"body":"It's everybody."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":626.09,"endTime":627.6,"body":"Everybody."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":627.6,"endTime":629.14,"body":"On channels that people"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":627.6,"endTime":629.14,"body":"don't see"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":629.14,"endTime":630.939,"body":"or don't interact with"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":629.14,"endTime":630.939,"body":"or don't use."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":631.58,"endTime":634.75,"body":"People are partially included."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":631.58,"endTime":634.75,"body":"In theory, you can access it."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":635.74,"endTime":641.56,"body":"But in reality, you know, that"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":635.74,"endTime":641.56,"body":"is not necessarily the case."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":641.56,"endTime":646.85,"body":"So, I think there is"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":641.56,"endTime":646.85,"body":"very few cases"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":646.85,"endTime":648.87,"body":"where you have full inclusion"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":648.87,"endTime":651.22,"body":"because society has"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":648.87,"endTime":651.22,"body":"so many differences."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":651.22,"endTime":654.24,"body":"People do things"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":651.22,"endTime":654.24,"body":"in so many different ways"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":655.1,"endTime":659.85,"body":"that you know that the way"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":655.1,"endTime":659.85,"body":"that people experience things"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":659.85,"endTime":661.07,"body":"is going to be different."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":661.07,"endTime":662.3,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":662.3,"endTime":666.03,"body":"Of course, when it comes"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":662.3,"endTime":666.03,"body":"to you know our core topic"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":666.03,"endTime":668.08,"body":"of including people"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":666.03,"endTime":668.08,"body":"with disabilities,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":668.08,"endTime":671.38,"body":"then you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":668.08,"endTime":671.38,"body":"especially for you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":671.38,"endTime":673.33,"body":"essential services"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":671.38,"endTime":673.33,"body":"then there has to be"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":673.33,"endTime":675.9,"body":"that effort made to make it,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":676.69,"endTime":679.27,"body":"you know, as close"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":676.69,"endTime":679.27,"body":"to equivalent as possible,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":679.27,"endTime":682.22,"body":"so that people"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":679.27,"endTime":682.22,"body":"can access those services."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":682.22,"endTime":683.88,"body":"So, for banking,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":682.22,"endTime":683.88,"body":"for government,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":683.88,"endTime":685.12,"body":"for all of these kinds"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":683.88,"endTime":685.12,"body":"of things."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":685.12,"endTime":690.36,"body":"And I think that efforts"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":685.12,"endTime":690.36,"body":"have been made in government."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":690.36,"endTime":693.81,"body":"So, some of our, you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":693.81,"endTime":695.62,"body":"our online services"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":693.81,"endTime":695.62,"body":"and you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":695.62,"endTime":697.54,"body":"applying for a passport"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":695.62,"endTime":697.54,"body":"or you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":697.54,"endTime":699.25,"body":"a new driver's licence"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":697.54,"endTime":699.25,"body":"in the UK,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":700.38,"endTime":704.6,"body":"pretty easy these days online"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":700.38,"endTime":704.6,"body":"and pretty accessible."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":706.76,"endTime":709.03,"body":"Would I say it's"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":706.76,"endTime":709.03,"body":"a joyous experience, no."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":711.58,"endTime":713.18,"body":"But it's functional."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":714.24,"endTime":717.42,"body":"But I think that there is"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":714.24,"endTime":717.42,"body":"so much else of our life"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":717.42,"endTime":723.09,"body":"that goes on and where there is"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":717.42,"endTime":723.09,"body":"that partial inclusion"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":724.17,"endTime":727.45,"body":"that it is difficult to address."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":727.45,"endTime":732.62,"body":"So, how would you suggest"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":727.45,"endTime":732.62,"body":"we go about determining"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":733.57,"endTime":737.88,"body":"what level of inclusion"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":733.57,"endTime":737.88,"body":"or exclusion"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":738.51,"endTime":742.92,"body":"is permissible or acceptable"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":742.92,"endTime":746.02,"body":"because that is the reason"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":742.92,"endTime":746.02,"body":"we end up with standards"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":746.02,"endTime":748.82,"body":"because we have to have"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":746.02,"endTime":748.82,"body":"some kind of benchmark"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":748.82,"endTime":753.39,"body":"that people can kind of agree on"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":748.82,"endTime":753.39,"body":"and they are imperfect."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":753.39,"endTime":754.76,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":754.76,"endTime":757.38,"body":"And you know what,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":754.76,"endTime":757.38,"body":"before I go there,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":757.38,"endTime":758.87,"body":"I just want to make"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":757.38,"endTime":758.87,"body":"another comment,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":758.87,"endTime":760.93,"body":"you know what we also do"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":758.87,"endTime":760.93,"body":"to each other"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":761.48,"endTime":764.0,"body":"is when we are"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":761.48,"endTime":764.0,"body":"partially included"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":764.0,"endTime":765.67,"body":"and we are making it harder"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":764.0,"endTime":765.67,"body":"for people"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":765.67,"endTime":768.34,"body":"to do the basic things"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":765.67,"endTime":768.34,"body":"they need to do,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":768.34,"endTime":770.77,"body":"people have a tendency"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":768.34,"endTime":770.77,"body":"to think they are stupid,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":770.77,"endTime":773.63,"body":"something is wrong with them."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":770.77,"endTime":773.63,"body":"And that is happens a lot."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":773.63,"endTime":777.1,"body":"As we see that we are"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":773.63,"endTime":777.1,"body":"doing that to each other"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":777.1,"endTime":778.62,"body":"as we are aging as well."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":778.62,"endTime":780.27,"body":"I'm a woman"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":778.62,"endTime":780.27,"body":"of a certain age now."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":780.27,"endTime":783.77,"body":"And I notice that we are making"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":780.27,"endTime":783.77,"body":"our systems inaccessible"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":783.77,"endTime":785.42,"body":"to humans"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":783.77,"endTime":785.42,"body":"because we are being careless."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":785.42,"endTime":787.94,"body":"We are not really"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":785.42,"endTime":787.94,"body":"designing in a way"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":787.94,"endTime":791.6,"body":"that is really inclusive"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":787.94,"endTime":791.6,"body":"to all humans."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":793.08,"endTime":795.43,"body":"And so, these partial"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":793.08,"endTime":795.43,"body":"inclusions happen"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":795.43,"endTime":798.81,"body":"and then you call to get help"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":795.43,"endTime":798.81,"body":"and you're yelled at almost by"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":798.81,"endTime":800.59,"body":"or people are being impatient"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":798.81,"endTime":800.59,"body":"with you"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":800.59,"endTime":802.62,"body":"because you are so slow."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":802.62,"endTime":804.92,"body":"So, people make it"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":802.62,"endTime":804.92,"body":"about themselves"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":804.92,"endTime":807.84,"body":"that somehow they failed."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":804.92,"endTime":807.84,"body":"And I see that a lot"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":807.84,"endTime":811.07,"body":"and that's really impacting"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":807.84,"endTime":811.07,"body":"our mental health and sadly,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":811.07,"endTime":814.48,"body":"sadly here in the United States,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":811.07,"endTime":814.48,"body":"last year 2023"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":814.48,"endTime":818.55,"body":"was our highest number"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":814.48,"endTime":818.55,"body":"of suicides ever, on record."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":818.55,"endTime":820.54,"body":"And so, I just want to say,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":820.54,"endTime":824.27,"body":"there are also human cost,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":820.54,"endTime":824.27,"body":"to these poor designs."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":824.27,"endTime":826.37,"body":"There are human costs"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":824.27,"endTime":826.37,"body":"for people blaming themselves"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":826.37,"endTime":829.03,"body":"for being too stupid that"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":826.37,"endTime":829.03,"body":"they can't keep up with society"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":829.03,"endTime":830.97,"body":"and I think that's"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":829.03,"endTime":830.97,"body":"a huge issue as well."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":830.97,"endTime":832.8,"body":"And just going back"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":830.97,"endTime":832.8,"body":"to what you said,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":832.8,"endTime":834.9,"body":"is should it always be"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":832.8,"endTime":834.9,"body":"about standards."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":834.9,"endTime":836.99,"body":"We made it about standards."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":836.99,"endTime":839.78,"body":"You know, we made about the laws"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":836.99,"endTime":839.78,"body":"and we made about standards"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":839.78,"endTime":841.98,"body":"and here in the United States,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":839.78,"endTime":841.98,"body":"we made it about lawyers,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":841.98,"endTime":844.34,"body":"you better include us"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":841.98,"endTime":844.34,"body":"or I'm going to sue you."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":845.13,"endTime":848.01,"body":"Well, you know we tried"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":845.13,"endTime":848.01,"body":"doing that and actually,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":848.01,"endTime":851.3,"body":"as a world we progressed."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":848.01,"endTime":851.3,"body":"We progressed in some ways."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":851.3,"endTime":854.61,"body":"We progressed but I think"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":851.3,"endTime":854.61,"body":"we progressed as far as we can"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":854.61,"endTime":860.17,"body":"with those outdated ways"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":854.61,"endTime":860.17,"body":"of thinking about these topics."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":860.17,"endTime":862.49,"body":"Once again, what are we"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":860.17,"endTime":862.49,"body":"trying to solve here?"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":863.23,"endTime":865.54,"body":"I know that last week,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":863.23,"endTime":865.54,"body":"we were or the other week,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":865.54,"endTime":866.91,"body":"we were talking to Mike Gifford"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":866.91,"endTime":870.91,"body":"and he brought up a term"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":866.91,"endTime":870.91,"body":"I had not been familiar with,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":870.91,"endTime":874.73,"body":"which is a planet"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":870.91,"endTime":874.73,"body":"centred design and so,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":874.73,"endTime":876.31,"body":"I went out"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":874.73,"endTime":876.31,"body":"and started looking at it"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":876.31,"endTime":878.55,"body":"and I loved what they are"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":876.31,"endTime":878.55,"body":"talking about"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":878.55,"endTime":881.72,"body":"because you know,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":878.55,"endTime":881.72,"body":"it's not possible,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":881.72,"endTime":883.71,"body":"I think know everything"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":881.72,"endTime":883.71,"body":"that's happening right now"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":883.71,"endTime":887.25,"body":"and how AI is joining"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":883.71,"endTime":887.25,"body":"these conversations meaningfully"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":887.25,"endTime":888.85,"body":"or not meaningfully but still,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":890.91,"endTime":894.51,"body":"it's almost causing data"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":890.91,"endTime":894.51,"body":"to move faster than ever before."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":894.51,"endTime":897.13,"body":"And so, I think it's important"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":897.13,"endTime":899.37,"body":"to have these conversations"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":897.13,"endTime":899.37,"body":"to understand"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":899.37,"endTime":901.7,"body":"that the way"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":899.37,"endTime":901.7,"body":"we are doing it now,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":901.7,"endTime":904.25,"body":"with only looking at"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":901.7,"endTime":904.25,"body":"legislation and standards"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":904.25,"endTime":905.51,"body":"and or here in the States,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":905.51,"endTime":908.19,"body":"lawyers it is not meeting"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":905.51,"endTime":908.19,"body":"the needs of the people."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":908.19,"endTime":911.65,"body":"It's just not meeting"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":908.19,"endTime":911.65,"body":"the needs of the problems"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":911.65,"endTime":914.69,"body":"we are trying to solve,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":911.65,"endTime":914.69,"body":"the gaps we are trying to close,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":914.69,"endTime":917.74,"body":"the divides we are"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":914.69,"endTime":917.74,"body":"trying to narrow."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":917.74,"endTime":919.03,"body":"It's not working."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":919.03,"endTime":921.25,"body":"And so, I think we have to"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":919.03,"endTime":921.25,"body":"and the one reason"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":921.25,"endTime":924.57,"body":"why I think it's important"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":921.25,"endTime":924.57,"body":"to talk about partial inclusion"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":924.57,"endTime":927.25,"body":"is because,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":924.57,"endTime":927.25,"body":"when we say to big corporations,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":927.25,"endTime":928.52,"body":"I mean you two represent"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":928.52,"endTime":930.8,"body":"a gigantic billion-dollar"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":928.52,"endTime":930.8,"body":"representation,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":930.8,"endTime":933.16,"body":"when we say to the leaders"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":933.16,"endTime":935.22,"body":"and the representatives"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":933.16,"endTime":935.22,"body":"of these organisations."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":935.22,"endTime":937.23,"body":"Well, you're leaving now"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":935.22,"endTime":937.23,"body":"a billion people."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":937.23,"endTime":939.12,"body":"And you're losing money."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":939.12,"endTime":941.97,"body":"You don't believe us"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":939.12,"endTime":941.97,"body":"because we can't ground it."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":941.97,"endTime":944.74,"body":"It's like, what,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":941.97,"endTime":944.74,"body":"really are you sure?"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":944.74,"endTime":947.62,"body":"And so, instead I think"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":944.74,"endTime":947.62,"body":"we need to talk about"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":947.62,"endTime":948.82,"body":"what the real problems are,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":948.82,"endTime":952.08,"body":"when you do not make sure"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":948.82,"endTime":952.08,"body":"that your systems"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":952.08,"endTime":955.22,"body":"and your technology works"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":952.08,"endTime":955.22,"body":"for all of your customers."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":955.22,"endTime":958.66,"body":"All of your potential customers."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":955.22,"endTime":958.66,"body":"You make our lives harder."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":958.66,"endTime":961.06,"body":"You make it harder for us"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":958.66,"endTime":961.06,"body":"to do business with you."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":961.06,"endTime":963.44,"body":"You make it harder for us"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":961.06,"endTime":963.44,"body":"to buy from you."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":963.44,"endTime":966.13,"body":"Maybe you do want all your new"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":963.44,"endTime":966.13,"body":"cool little upgrades"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":966.13,"endTime":967.62,"body":"and upsells."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":967.62,"endTime":969.8,"body":"We can't even get"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":967.62,"endTime":969.8,"body":"basic services."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":969.8,"endTime":972.8,"body":"That's a huge problem that I"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":969.8,"endTime":972.8,"body":"really need we need to rethink."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":975.82,"endTime":977.42,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":980.08,"endTime":982.04,"body":"At least,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":980.08,"endTime":982.04,"body":"let's use the right language."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":982.04,"endTime":983.99,"body":"Let's at least say"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":982.04,"endTime":983.99,"body":"what the problem is."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":983.99,"endTime":985.24,"body":"That's the problem?"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":985.24,"endTime":988.67,"body":"We are partially included,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":985.24,"endTime":988.67,"body":"partially least included."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":988.67,"endTime":990.61,"body":"Some of us more included"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":988.67,"endTime":990.61,"body":"than others."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":990.61,"endTime":993.25,"body":"Some of us are more privileged."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":990.61,"endTime":993.25,"body":"And so, we get better inclusion."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":993.25,"endTime":996.16,"body":"Some of us don't."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":993.25,"endTime":996.16,"body":"Let's solve those problems."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":996.16,"endTime":999.5,"body":"But no, a billion people"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":996.16,"endTime":999.5,"body":"haven't been one 100% left out."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":999.5,"endTime":1001.02,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1001.02,"endTime":1003.69,"body":"NO. And that is where context"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1003.69,"endTime":1007.39,"body":"is also important,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1003.69,"endTime":1007.39,"body":"situational context."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1007.39,"endTime":1008.6,"body":"Yes, yes."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1008.6,"endTime":1012.55,"body":"You know, geographical,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1008.6,"endTime":1012.55,"body":"class gender,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1012.55,"endTime":1014.74,"body":"you know all of those things"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1012.55,"endTime":1014.74,"body":"play a role"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1014.74,"endTime":1018.87,"body":"into how greatly or otherwise"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1014.74,"endTime":1018.87,"body":"you are included or excluded."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1021.07,"endTime":1024.16,"body":"Those levels of privilege,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1021.07,"endTime":1024.16,"body":"also you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1024.16,"endTime":1026.18,"body":"the situation"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1024.16,"endTime":1026.18,"body":"that you find yourself in."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1026.94,"endTime":1029.93,"body":"You know whether or not"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1026.94,"endTime":1029.93,"body":"you're tired and stressed"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1029.93,"endTime":1032.68,"body":"and there is other stuff going"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1029.93,"endTime":1032.68,"body":"on in your life can impact."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1032.68,"endTime":1034.63,"body":"Especially with"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1032.68,"endTime":1034.63,"body":"cognitive disabilities,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1035.2,"endTime":1039.79,"body":"how well you're able"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1035.2,"endTime":1039.79,"body":"to include yourself"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1039.79,"endTime":1043.61,"body":"right because sometimes when"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1039.79,"endTime":1043.61,"body":"you're firing on all cylinders,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1043.61,"endTime":1045.6,"body":"you can work your way"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1043.61,"endTime":1045.6,"body":"around these things"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1045.6,"endTime":1048.35,"body":"and they don't became"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1045.6,"endTime":1048.35,"body":"barriers or you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1048.35,"endTime":1051.18,"body":"they are barriers"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1048.35,"endTime":1051.18,"body":"that are not, too high."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1051.18,"endTime":1054.13,"body":"So, you can step over them"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1051.18,"endTime":1054.13,"body":"and join the party"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1054.13,"endTime":1055.47,"body":"and then other times,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1055.47,"endTime":1058.36,"body":"when you're under stretched,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1055.47,"endTime":1058.36,"body":"you're tired."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1058.36,"endTime":1060.48,"body":"You know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1058.36,"endTime":1060.48,"body":"the brain fog kicks in."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1061.34,"endTime":1063.68,"body":"Those barriers"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1061.34,"endTime":1063.68,"body":"became insurmountable."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1063.68,"endTime":1067.41,"body":"You find yourself excluded"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1063.68,"endTime":1067.41,"body":"and I think that you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1067.41,"endTime":1069.46,"body":"with an aging society,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1069.46,"endTime":1071.36,"body":"we are building lots"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1069.46,"endTime":1071.36,"body":"and lots of systems,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1071.36,"endTime":1074.02,"body":"where there is"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1071.36,"endTime":1074.02,"body":"that peril again."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1074.02,"endTime":1075.22,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1075.22,"endTime":1077.35,"body":"There is a load of people"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1077.35,"endTime":1081.53,"body":"that don't consider themselves"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1077.35,"endTime":1081.53,"body":"to be disabled."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1081.53,"endTime":1084.45,"body":"You know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1081.53,"endTime":1084.45,"body":"maybe don't even qualify"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1084.45,"endTime":1088.75,"body":"under the definition"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1084.45,"endTime":1088.75,"body":"of disability"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1088.75,"endTime":1095.22,"body":"precisely but that find"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1088.75,"endTime":1095.22,"body":"themselves partially included."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1095.22,"endTime":1096.46,"body":"Partially excluded, you know."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1096.46,"endTime":1097.66,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1097.66,"endTime":1100.61,"body":"And that still has a cost."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1102.47,"endTime":1105.45,"body":"It is them defining it, right."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1102.47,"endTime":1105.45,"body":"So, how do we you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1106.48,"endTime":1110.5,"body":"get the buy in that"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1106.48,"endTime":1110.5,"body":"you have this intangible thing"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1111.09,"endTime":1113.22,"body":"because people like stuff"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1111.09,"endTime":1113.22,"body":"that's measurable."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1113.22,"endTime":1114.82,"body":"They like hard numbers."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1116.69,"endTime":1118.81,"body":"How do you then"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1116.69,"endTime":1118.81,"body":"define what that is?"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1120.14,"endTime":1123.63,"body":"What good looks like"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1120.14,"endTime":1123.63,"body":"and you come up with a plan"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1123.63,"endTime":1128.23,"body":"for getting some of the way"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1123.63,"endTime":1128.23,"body":"there with the, you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1128.23,"endTime":1130.57,"body":"with the funds available"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1128.23,"endTime":1130.57,"body":"and you know."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1131.58,"endTime":1133.65,"body":"I think you know, yes,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1133.65,"endTime":1135.12,"body":"I think that's"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1133.65,"endTime":1135.12,"body":"a wonderful question,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1135.12,"endTime":1137.66,"body":"sorry to step on you,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1135.12,"endTime":1137.66,"body":"I think that's a great question"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1137.66,"endTime":1142.43,"body":"and I have been very open"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1137.66,"endTime":1142.43,"body":"about how we've struggled,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1142.43,"endTime":1143.79,"body":"with the work"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1142.43,"endTime":1143.79,"body":"that I am doing,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1143.79,"endTime":1146.59,"body":"my Billion Strong team"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1143.79,"endTime":1146.59,"body":"and global impact."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1146.59,"endTime":1147.88,"body":"How we have struggled"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1146.59,"endTime":1147.88,"body":"with funding"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1147.88,"endTime":1150.12,"body":"because there is"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1147.88,"endTime":1150.12,"body":"a lot of funding"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1150.12,"endTime":1152.65,"body":"that is being spent on funding"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1150.12,"endTime":1152.65,"body":"people with disabilities,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1152.65,"endTime":1154.93,"body":"funding trillions of dollars"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1152.65,"endTime":1154.93,"body":"all over the world."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1154.93,"endTime":1158.04,"body":"But I think sometimes"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1154.93,"endTime":1158.04,"body":"the community"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1158.04,"endTime":1160.1,"body":"doesn't see the benefits"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1158.04,"endTime":1160.1,"body":"from those efforts."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1160.1,"endTime":1161.76,"body":"I know, just speaking"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1160.1,"endTime":1161.76,"body":"as a mother"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1161.76,"endTime":1163.73,"body":"of a daughter"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1161.76,"endTime":1163.73,"body":"with Down Syndrome,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1163.73,"endTime":1166.99,"body":"at 36 that has some health"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1163.73,"endTime":1166.99,"body":"problems and everything,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1166.99,"endTime":1170.32,"body":"my family walked and I know"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1166.99,"endTime":1170.32,"body":"more than most people"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1170.32,"endTime":1172.46,"body":"and it has been so difficult."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1172.46,"endTime":1175.9,"body":"It has been so difficult,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1172.46,"endTime":1175.9,"body":"and I think and yet,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1175.9,"endTime":1178.46,"body":"we must have it so much easier"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1175.9,"endTime":1178.46,"body":"than everybody else."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1178.46,"endTime":1181.59,"body":"And so, the reality is,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1178.46,"endTime":1181.59,"body":"I think we at least have to,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1181.59,"endTime":1183.82,"body":"we have to start talking about"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1181.59,"endTime":1183.82,"body":"what the real problems are,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1183.82,"endTime":1185.62,"body":"so that we can"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1183.82,"endTime":1185.62,"body":"then say all right,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1185.62,"endTime":1187.11,"body":"how do we deal with this."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1187.11,"endTime":1189.95,"body":"But, I also think,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1187.11,"endTime":1189.95,"body":"as I've been looking around"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1189.95,"endTime":1191.82,"body":"and trying to figure out,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1191.82,"endTime":1193.77,"body":"how do we really do"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1191.82,"endTime":1193.77,"body":"a better job with this?"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1193.77,"endTime":1196.119,"body":"How do we get this funded"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1193.77,"endTime":1196.119,"body":"and things like that?"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1196.66,"endTime":1199.39,"body":"There are actually groups"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1196.66,"endTime":1199.39,"body":"that are really,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1199.39,"endTime":1201.02,"body":"really focusing on this now."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1201.02,"endTime":1203.67,"body":"We are seeing impact"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1201.02,"endTime":1203.67,"body":"investments happening."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1203.67,"endTime":1205.05,"body":"We are starting"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1203.67,"endTime":1205.05,"body":"to see some things."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1205.05,"endTime":1207.44,"body":"I'm going to have some real"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1205.05,"endTime":1207.44,"body":"exciting announcements"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1207.44,"endTime":1209.54,"body":"coming out the next"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1207.44,"endTime":1209.54,"body":"couple of months"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1209.54,"endTime":1212.43,"body":"and we are seeing money"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1209.54,"endTime":1212.43,"body":"that really does want"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1212.43,"endTime":1215.02,"body":"to be used for good"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1212.43,"endTime":1215.02,"body":"and that money is saying,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1215.02,"endTime":1218.16,"body":"well, all right,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1215.02,"endTime":1218.16,"body":"you have all been saying"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1218.16,"endTime":1220.54,"body":"we aren't doing it right,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1218.16,"endTime":1220.54,"body":"how should we do it?"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1220.54,"endTime":1224.62,"body":"But I believe the way to do it,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1220.54,"endTime":1224.62,"body":"we got to join the conversations"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1224.62,"endTime":1226.6,"body":"and make sure more voices"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1224.62,"endTime":1226.6,"body":"are heard,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1226.6,"endTime":1230.2,"body":"so that, it's just not Debra Ruh"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1226.6,"endTime":1230.2,"body":"speaking for everybody else"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1230.2,"endTime":1232.1,"body":"or it's just not whatever."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1232.1,"endTime":1234.5,"body":"It's got to be more of us"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1232.1,"endTime":1234.5,"body":"coming together."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1234.5,"endTime":1238.68,"body":"So, I think honestly"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1234.5,"endTime":1238.68,"body":"and I hate to be optimistic"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1238.68,"endTime":1241.22,"body":"but I think we are starting"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1238.68,"endTime":1241.22,"body":"to head in the right direction."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1241.22,"endTime":1244.71,"body":"At least, we are having"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1241.22,"endTime":1244.71,"body":"these kinds of conversations."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1244.71,"endTime":1248.0,"body":"You know, where it's like, okay,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1244.71,"endTime":1248.0,"body":"let's put it out there."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1248.0,"endTime":1252.93,"body":"It's not complete exclusion but"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1248.0,"endTime":1252.93,"body":"the exclusion that we do have"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1253.76,"endTime":1255.86,"body":"is not good for you"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1253.76,"endTime":1255.86,"body":"either brand."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1255.86,"endTime":1258.12,"body":"It's not good for you either."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1255.86,"endTime":1258.12,"body":"It's not good for society"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1258.12,"endTime":1259.86,"body":"and it's certainly not good"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1258.12,"endTime":1259.86,"body":"for the individuals"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1259.86,"endTime":1262.76,"body":"that it's impacting and all of"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1259.86,"endTime":1262.76,"body":"the family members and friends"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1262.76,"endTime":1264.559,"body":"around them"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1262.76,"endTime":1264.559,"body":"that are being impacted."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1267.31,"endTime":1273.47,"body":"What I am also hopeful"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1267.31,"endTime":1273.47,"body":"that there is movement"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1273.47,"endTime":1278.16,"body":"towards more effective"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1273.47,"endTime":1278.16,"body":"investment in stuff"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1278.16,"endTime":1284.66,"body":"to move forwards rather than"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1278.16,"endTime":1284.66,"body":"just investing in making noise."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1284.66,"endTime":1288.69,"body":"I think we need to put"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1284.66,"endTime":1288.69,"body":"investments into"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1289.63,"endTime":1294.18,"body":"looking at structural issues"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1289.63,"endTime":1294.18,"body":"and those kinds of things"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1294.18,"endTime":1296.95,"body":"and how stuff connects"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1294.18,"endTime":1296.95,"body":"because it is,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1297.73,"endTime":1300.39,"body":"as we have been talking about"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1297.73,"endTime":1300.39,"body":"for over a decade now,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1300.39,"endTime":1301.6,"body":"extremely siloed"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1301.6,"endTime":1307.26,"body":"and despite all of money"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1301.6,"endTime":1307.26,"body":"that does get allocated,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1307.26,"endTime":1310.4,"body":"there is this, you know"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1307.26,"endTime":1310.4,"body":"scarcity mentality,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1310.4,"endTime":1312.54,"body":"which causes people"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1310.4,"endTime":1312.54,"body":"to continue to silo,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1312.54,"endTime":1316.42,"body":"circle the wagons and fight"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1312.54,"endTime":1316.42,"body":"for their slice of the pie."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1318.14,"endTime":1320.32,"body":"And I am still going back"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1318.14,"endTime":1320.32,"body":"and you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1320.32,"endTime":1323.88,"body":"to the conversations"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1320.32,"endTime":1323.88,"body":"we had with Kurt Jaeger,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1323.88,"endTime":1327.21,"body":"just before Christmas which"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1323.88,"endTime":1327.21,"body":"I thought was really interesting"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1327.21,"endTime":1332.37,"body":"because his approach"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1327.21,"endTime":1332.37,"body":"was about growing,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1333.12,"endTime":1334.83,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1333.12,"endTime":1334.83,"body":"it was about growing money"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1334.83,"endTime":1341.4,"body":"and using the money"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1334.83,"endTime":1341.4,"body":"to continue to push the aims."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1341.4,"endTime":1346.29,"body":"So, it's that"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1341.4,"endTime":1346.29,"body":"positive investment"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1346.29,"endTime":1349.96,"body":"and it's rather than it always"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1346.29,"endTime":1349.96,"body":"being about you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1349.96,"endTime":1352.33,"body":"money coming back out"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1349.96,"endTime":1352.33,"body":"and asking for more money."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1352.33,"endTime":1355.34,"body":"It's about becoming"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1352.33,"endTime":1355.34,"body":"self-sustaining,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1355.34,"endTime":1359.55,"body":"to be able to maintain"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1355.34,"endTime":1359.55,"body":"the momentum"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1360.1,"endTime":1365.62,"body":"because you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1360.1,"endTime":1365.62,"body":"we have seen you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1365.62,"endTime":1368.28,"body":"a lot of cutbacks"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1365.62,"endTime":1368.28,"body":"in central government"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1368.28,"endTime":1369.92,"body":"funding around the world,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1368.28,"endTime":1369.92,"body":"you know."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1369.92,"endTime":1371.18,"body":"They are not investing, right."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1371.18,"endTime":1378.41,"body":"So, then people go shaking"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1371.18,"endTime":1378.41,"body":"the tin and it's difficult"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1378.41,"endTime":1383.39,"body":"because everybody believes"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1378.41,"endTime":1383.39,"body":"that they have a good cause."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1383.39,"endTime":1385.3,"body":"They probably do."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1385.3,"endTime":1387.07,"body":"And everybody believes"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1385.3,"endTime":1387.07,"body":"that they deserve the money."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1387.07,"endTime":1388.28,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1388.28,"endTime":1389.81,"body":"Which they probably do."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1389.81,"endTime":1391.91,"body":"But there is only"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1389.81,"endTime":1391.91,"body":"so much money to go around"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1391.91,"endTime":1396.74,"body":"and people get you know"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1391.91,"endTime":1396.74,"body":"charity fatigue."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1398.05,"endTime":1399.65,"body":"Gosh, I agree. I agree."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1400.68,"endTime":1403.83,"body":"You know another telethon."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1403.83,"endTime":1406.41,"body":"Please don't come"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1403.83,"endTime":1406.41,"body":"and ask me again."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1406.41,"endTime":1408.1,"body":"Crowd sourcing, oh yeah."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1409.92,"endTime":1411.95,"body":"But I think we have also"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1412.73,"endTime":1415.16,"body":"a small problem"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1412.73,"endTime":1415.16,"body":"in the other end,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1415.16,"endTime":1418.42,"body":"is that in many systems"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1415.16,"endTime":1418.42,"body":"around the world,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1419.06,"endTime":1423.24,"body":"people might are penalised"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1419.06,"endTime":1423.24,"body":"if they work,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1423.95,"endTime":1425.55,"body":"they lose their benefits."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1427.36,"endTime":1430.65,"body":"If they decide to go into"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1427.36,"endTime":1430.65,"body":"an entrepreneurial journey,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1430.65,"endTime":1433.86,"body":"I'm not saying that they are"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1430.65,"endTime":1433.86,"body":"going to succeed, even testing."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1433.86,"endTime":1435.71,"body":"Let's see if I'm going"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1433.86,"endTime":1435.71,"body":"to be able to,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1436.73,"endTime":1440.24,"body":"I'm going to try to"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1436.73,"endTime":1440.24,"body":"create a business"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1440.24,"endTime":1442.43,"body":"and I'm going to try"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1440.24,"endTime":1442.43,"body":"to see if this works."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1442.43,"endTime":1446.01,"body":"Just the process of trying"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1442.43,"endTime":1446.01,"body":"is going to penalise the person."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1446.87,"endTime":1448.23,"body":"So, you can't."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1448.23,"endTime":1450.24,"body":"You're precluded"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1448.23,"endTime":1450.24,"body":"from being able to be,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1451.46,"endTime":1454.88,"body":"play a full and functional role"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1451.46,"endTime":1454.88,"body":"in the labour force"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1455.55,"endTime":1459.8,"body":"because of the way that systems"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1455.55,"endTime":1459.8,"body":"set up and by the way,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1459.8,"endTime":1462.19,"body":"I don't want my previous"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1459.8,"endTime":1462.19,"body":"comments to make people think"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1462.19,"endTime":1466.2,"body":"that I don't even"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1462.19,"endTime":1466.2,"body":"was to give or participate"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1468.68,"endTime":1471.99,"body":"but, people are you know done,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1471.99,"endTime":1474.93,"body":"it's done systemically"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1471.99,"endTime":1474.93,"body":"and what is happened"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1474.93,"endTime":1478.15,"body":"is we've relied on individuals"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1474.93,"endTime":1478.15,"body":"all of the time"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1478.15,"endTime":1479.9,"body":"and we are relying"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1478.15,"endTime":1479.9,"body":"on philanthropy."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1481.56,"endTime":1485.07,"body":"Why is it that we you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1481.56,"endTime":1485.07,"body":"we pay taxes"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1485.07,"endTime":1486.56,"body":"and all of the rest of it"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1486.56,"endTime":1491.81,"body":"but we are asking individuals"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1486.56,"endTime":1491.81,"body":"to support, feed people; right?"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1492.47,"endTime":1494.47,"body":"To provide wheelchairs"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1492.47,"endTime":1494.47,"body":"for people,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1494.47,"endTime":1498.37,"body":"to buy basic medicines"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1494.47,"endTime":1498.37,"body":"to keep people alive."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1498.37,"endTime":1501.74,"body":"I am thinking of the I always"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1498.37,"endTime":1501.74,"body":"feel conflicted"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1501.74,"endTime":1503.73,"body":"because, for example, you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1503.73,"endTime":1506.38,"body":"there are advocates"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1503.73,"endTime":1506.38,"body":"in our community"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1506.38,"endTime":1509.8,"body":"that are dependent"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1506.38,"endTime":1509.8,"body":"on the goodwill of the community"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1509.8,"endTime":1513.76,"body":"to stay alive"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1509.8,"endTime":1513.76,"body":"to be able to."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1513.76,"endTime":1516.3,"body":"Yes, there's a problem"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1513.76,"endTime":1516.3,"body":"with that too; right."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1516.96,"endTime":1518.68,"body":"The work matters."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1518.68,"endTime":1521.64,"body":"You know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1518.68,"endTime":1521.64,"body":"I can't do it for everyone."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1521.64,"endTime":1526.07,"body":"This needs to have a systemic"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1521.64,"endTime":1526.07,"body":"joined up approach to it."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1527.95,"endTime":1529.55,"body":"I agree."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1530.67,"endTime":1532.64,"body":"And that becomes"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1530.67,"endTime":1532.64,"body":"even more strange"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1533.27,"endTime":1537.01,"body":"when that need comes"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1533.27,"endTime":1537.01,"body":"from people"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1537.01,"endTime":1540.63,"body":"living in the most wealthy"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1537.01,"endTime":1540.63,"body":"countries on the planet,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1541.48,"endTime":1543.75,"body":"when people living"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1541.48,"endTime":1543.75,"body":"in countries,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1543.75,"endTime":1547.51,"body":"who have a different health care"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1543.75,"endTime":1547.51,"body":"structure, that's not the case."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1547.51,"endTime":1548.86,"body":"So, people get confused"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1547.51,"endTime":1548.86,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1548.86,"endTime":1552.4,"body":"why do you need that type"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1548.86,"endTime":1552.4,"body":"of support in that country,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1552.4,"endTime":1554.08,"body":"considering all the wealth"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1554.08,"endTime":1557.7,"body":"and all the power"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1554.08,"endTime":1557.7,"body":"that country seems to have."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1558.45,"endTime":1559.8,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1559.8,"endTime":1561.07,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1561.07,"endTime":1565.79,"body":"So, I mean that is"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1561.07,"endTime":1565.79,"body":"the inequity is astounding."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1565.79,"endTime":1570.83,"body":"And I think"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1565.79,"endTime":1570.83,"body":"that drives exclusion."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1570.83,"endTime":1574.47,"body":"You know, these are you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1574.47,"endTime":1579.44,"body":"what the social determinates"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1574.47,"endTime":1579.44,"body":"of health that we often see."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1580.31,"endTime":1583.13,"body":"But some of those are driven"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1580.31,"endTime":1583.13,"body":"by social policy, as well."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1583.13,"endTime":1586.18,"body":"So, you know, even in the UK"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1583.13,"endTime":1586.18,"body":"which still does have"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1586.18,"endTime":1589.53,"body":"the remnants of a, you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1586.18,"endTime":1589.53,"body":"a national health service,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1590.07,"endTime":1593.42,"body":"it's definitely a two"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1590.07,"endTime":1593.42,"body":"or three tier system"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1593.42,"endTime":1600.5,"body":"and that impacts on people's"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1593.42,"endTime":1600.5,"body":"ability to access services,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1600.5,"endTime":1602.64,"body":"to be able to participate"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1600.5,"endTime":1602.64,"body":"in society."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1602.64,"endTime":1608.23,"body":"So, if you can pay, you can get,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1602.64,"endTime":1608.23,"body":"you know a diagnosis for ADHD"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1608.23,"endTime":1614.58,"body":"or another neuro divergent"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1608.23,"endTime":1614.58,"body":"condition and you get support."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1614.58,"endTime":1616.41,"body":"But, if you can't,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1614.58,"endTime":1616.41,"body":"you wait four years,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1616.41,"endTime":1619.06,"body":"maybe that's the four years that"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1616.41,"endTime":1619.06,"body":"are crucial to your education."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1619.06,"endTime":1623.79,"body":"It means you'll never be"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1619.06,"endTime":1623.79,"body":"getting the qualifications"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1623.79,"endTime":1625.63,"body":"that you need to be able"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1623.79,"endTime":1625.63,"body":"to get the jobs"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1625.63,"endTime":1628.56,"body":"that would enable you"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1625.63,"endTime":1628.56,"body":"to succeed in life,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1628.56,"endTime":1632.68,"body":"had you had the support,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1628.56,"endTime":1632.68,"body":"at the beginning. You know."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1632.68,"endTime":1637.59,"body":"And that is the difference"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1632.68,"endTime":1637.59,"body":"that maybe £400 would make."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1637.59,"endTime":1640.0,"body":"£400 is not a lot"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1637.59,"endTime":1640.0,"body":"for the State"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1641.06,"endTime":1646.48,"body":"but it's a lot for many"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1641.06,"endTime":1646.48,"body":"families that you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1646.48,"endTime":1648.22,"body":"are thinking about heating"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1646.48,"endTime":1648.22,"body":"and eating and lighting"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1648.22,"endTime":1649.47,"body":"and all the rest of it."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1649.47,"endTime":1653.86,"body":"So, it has that massive,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1649.47,"endTime":1653.86,"body":"long knock-on effect."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1655.25,"endTime":1657.83,"body":"But those €400 might not be much"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1657.83,"endTime":1662.18,"body":"for the State now"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1657.83,"endTime":1662.18,"body":"but probably 20 years from now,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1663.49,"endTime":1668.69,"body":"those €400 that government"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1663.49,"endTime":1668.69,"body":"is not willing to spend will be,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1668.69,"endTime":1671.52,"body":"you know, it would triple"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1668.69,"endTime":1671.52,"body":"in terms of the support"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1671.52,"endTime":1673.59,"body":"that they might need"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1671.52,"endTime":1673.59,"body":"to provide to that person."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1673.59,"endTime":1674.84,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1674.84,"endTime":1676.05,"body":"Oh, it is more than that"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1676.05,"endTime":1678.58,"body":"because when people"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1676.05,"endTime":1678.58,"body":"don't get diagnosed,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1678.58,"endTime":1680.34,"body":"they end up"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1678.58,"endTime":1680.34,"body":"in the penal system"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1680.34,"endTime":1683.25,"body":"and the cost of keeping people"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1680.34,"endTime":1683.25,"body":"in prison is enormous."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1686.16,"endTime":1689.56,"body":"So, what happens is by saving a"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1686.16,"endTime":1689.56,"body":"small amount of money right now,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1689.56,"endTime":1694.93,"body":"we are pushing the cost"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1689.56,"endTime":1694.93,"body":"and magnifying it,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1694.93,"endTime":1697.58,"body":"further down the line."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1694.93,"endTime":1697.58,"body":"But I think that this is not,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1698.31,"endTime":1701.61,"body":"you know, not a unique problem"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1698.31,"endTime":1701.61,"body":"to one country."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1701.61,"endTime":1703.0,"body":"No, no, no."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1703.0,"endTime":1708.96,"body":"It's endemic in politics"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1703.0,"endTime":1708.96,"body":"and one of the challenges,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1709.56,"endTime":1716.26,"body":"in any organisation,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1709.56,"endTime":1716.26,"body":"in any country,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1717.0,"endTime":1718.33,"body":"if you have"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1717.0,"endTime":1718.33,"body":"an electoral cycle,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1718.33,"endTime":1721.71,"body":"stuff is driven by elections,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1718.33,"endTime":1721.71,"body":"even in China,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1721.71,"endTime":1724.23,"body":"where they have"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1721.71,"endTime":1724.23,"body":"a one-party State."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1725.03,"endTime":1729.22,"body":"Things are still driven"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1725.03,"endTime":1729.22,"body":"by the internal calendar"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1729.22,"endTime":1731.69,"body":"of the Chinese"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1729.22,"endTime":1731.69,"body":"communist parties."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1732.38,"endTime":1735.01,"body":"So, the people that make"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1732.38,"endTime":1735.01,"body":"decisions that drive society"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1735.01,"endTime":1737.45,"body":"are always looking"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1735.01,"endTime":1737.45,"body":"to these points,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1737.45,"endTime":1740.28,"body":"which pushes away"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1737.45,"endTime":1740.28,"body":"from long termism"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1740.97,"endTime":1742.55,"body":"and investment"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1740.97,"endTime":1742.55,"body":"in some of these things."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1742.55,"endTime":1746.45,"body":"I think that, you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1742.55,"endTime":1746.45,"body":"the Scandinavia models"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1746.45,"endTime":1750.02,"body":"have generally been quite good"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1746.45,"endTime":1750.02,"body":"and more long term"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1750.02,"endTime":1754.52,"body":"and the happiness and the gap"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1750.02,"endTime":1754.52,"body":"between rich and poor"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1754.52,"endTime":1758.49,"body":"is also significantly less"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1754.52,"endTime":1758.49,"body":"and people feel more included."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1758.49,"endTime":1762.3,"body":"And also, I also think"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1758.49,"endTime":1762.3,"body":"that we have to realise"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1762.3,"endTime":1765.49,"body":"that we are not solving"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1762.3,"endTime":1765.49,"body":"the right problems anymore."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1765.49,"endTime":1767.43,"body":"So, you know when"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1765.49,"endTime":1767.43,"body":"we look at the way,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1767.43,"endTime":1770.97,"body":"just using that example you were"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1767.43,"endTime":1770.97,"body":"using with the UK government,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1770.97,"endTime":1772.3,"body":"it is so cumbersome,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1772.3,"endTime":1775.33,"body":"there is no way"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1772.3,"endTime":1775.33,"body":"they can ever make that work."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1775.33,"endTime":1777.63,"body":"There are other ways"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1775.33,"endTime":1777.63,"body":"we can actually do it"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1777.63,"endTime":1781.27,"body":"so that people don't have to ask"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1777.63,"endTime":1781.27,"body":"for the extra support."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1781.27,"endTime":1783.01,"body":"The support is blended"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1781.27,"endTime":1783.01,"body":"in the way"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1783.01,"endTime":1785.06,"body":"we are looking"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1783.01,"endTime":1785.06,"body":"at the individuals."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1785.06,"endTime":1787.64,"body":"So, I am just saying"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1785.06,"endTime":1787.64,"body":"that we are trying to solve"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1788.3,"endTime":1792.27,"body":"these old problems in the same"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1788.3,"endTime":1792.27,"body":"way, in a broken system."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1792.27,"endTime":1794.6,"body":"So, what we actually do"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1792.27,"endTime":1794.6,"body":"is really need"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1794.6,"endTime":1796.37,"body":"to do what we are doing."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1796.37,"endTime":1798.89,"body":"We need to be"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1796.37,"endTime":1798.89,"body":"rethinking and asking,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1798.89,"endTime":1800.62,"body":"are we solving"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1798.89,"endTime":1800.62,"body":"the right problem?"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1800.62,"endTime":1803.22,"body":"Wait a minute, by the way,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1800.62,"endTime":1803.22,"body":"the problem is not"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1803.22,"endTime":1806.4,"body":"that a billion people"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1803.22,"endTime":1806.4,"body":"have been 100% left out."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1806.4,"endTime":1808.55,"body":"The problem is they"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1806.4,"endTime":1808.55,"body":"are partially included."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1808.55,"endTime":1811.66,"body":"Huh, we should solve"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1808.55,"endTime":1811.66,"body":"the problems based on the data."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1812.5,"endTime":1813.93,"body":"That's what I'm hoping for."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1813.93,"endTime":1816.91,"body":"Now, that we have the AI,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1813.93,"endTime":1816.91,"body":"good bad or whatever,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1817.87,"endTime":1820.97,"body":"could we use the AI"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1817.87,"endTime":1820.97,"body":"to even help solve the problems"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1820.97,"endTime":1824.42,"body":"in different ways"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1820.97,"endTime":1824.42,"body":"to allow humans to work on this,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1824.42,"endTime":1825.74,"body":"to solve the real problems."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1825.74,"endTime":1828.62,"body":"Anyway, this is a good time"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1825.74,"endTime":1828.62,"body":"to be exploring"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1828.62,"endTime":1831.28,"body":"what are the real problems"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1828.62,"endTime":1831.28,"body":"and now,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1831.28,"endTime":1832.68,"body":"how do we take"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1831.28,"endTime":1832.68,"body":"everything we are doing"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1832.68,"endTime":1834.31,"body":"and start applying it"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1832.68,"endTime":1834.31,"body":"to those problems"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1834.31,"endTime":1837.71,"body":"instead of trying to solve"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1834.31,"endTime":1837.71,"body":"something that is wrong."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1839.06,"endTime":1843.68,"body":"Sometimes, I've some"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1839.06,"endTime":1843.68,"body":"conflicting issues"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1843.68,"endTime":1847.0,"body":"when people start talking"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1843.68,"endTime":1847.0,"body":"about the need for data."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1847.98,"endTime":1849.25,"body":"Okay?"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1849.25,"endTime":1853.88,"body":"Just because if we just follow"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1849.25,"endTime":1853.88,"body":"our journey as humans from"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1853.88,"endTime":1856.18,"body":"when to we are born"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1853.88,"endTime":1856.18,"body":"to when we are old,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1857.09,"endTime":1858.69,"body":"you know, I think it's,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1860.82,"endTime":1864.49,"body":"why is this is happening"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1860.82,"endTime":1864.49,"body":"for thousands of years,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1864.49,"endTime":1866.42,"body":"in the exact same way."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1866.42,"endTime":1869.02,"body":"We know what is happening,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1866.42,"endTime":1869.02,"body":"why people age."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1869.57,"endTime":1874.87,"body":"So, it's you know, we know that"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1869.57,"endTime":1874.87,"body":"consequences of life you know,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1874.87,"endTime":1876.75,"body":"we are not machines."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1878.08,"endTime":1881.96,"body":"So, you know, I do understand"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1878.08,"endTime":1881.96,"body":"that, if we were machines,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1881.96,"endTime":1885.6,"body":"we might need data to identify"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1881.96,"endTime":1885.6,"body":"the faults of the machines,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1886.53,"endTime":1889.27,"body":"that they might have"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1886.53,"endTime":1889.27,"body":"but we are not machines,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1889.27,"endTime":1893.99,"body":"so sometimes I get conflicted"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1889.27,"endTime":1893.99,"body":"with internal conflict"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1893.99,"endTime":1896.97,"body":"when we start talking about,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1893.99,"endTime":1896.97,"body":"we need data."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1897.5,"endTime":1901.67,"body":"When sometimes we only need"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1897.5,"endTime":1901.67,"body":"to look around society"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1901.67,"endTime":1905.98,"body":"to look to the data that already"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1901.67,"endTime":1905.98,"body":"exists, like demographics,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1905.98,"endTime":1908.56,"body":"that we tend to ignore you know,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1905.98,"endTime":1908.56,"body":"for many years that we know,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1908.56,"endTime":1912.03,"body":"in Europe that in many"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1908.56,"endTime":1912.03,"body":"countries’ societies are aging."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1912.03,"endTime":1917.96,"body":"You know that since the 70s ,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1912.03,"endTime":1917.96,"body":"you know and progress"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1917.96,"endTime":1922.25,"body":"and sometimes I see some posts"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1917.96,"endTime":1922.25,"body":"or conversations today,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1922.25,"endTime":1925.65,"body":"almost like if nobody was aware"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1922.25,"endTime":1925.65,"body":"that that was coming,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1925.65,"endTime":1928.23,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1925.65,"endTime":1928.23,"body":"when we talk about that,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1928.23,"endTime":1931.54,"body":"you know the health"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1928.23,"endTime":1931.54,"body":"care services, are overcrowded."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1931.54,"endTime":1934.7,"body":"You know, too many older people"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1931.54,"endTime":1934.7,"body":"get sick with the flu."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1934.7,"endTime":1938.48,"body":"So, that's a bit of it."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1938.48,"endTime":1940.3,"body":"I agree."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1938.48,"endTime":1940.3,"body":"I know we've got to close"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1940.3,"endTime":1942.36,"body":"but I just want to make"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1940.3,"endTime":1942.36,"body":"one real quick comment"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1942.36,"endTime":1945.0,"body":"and just say that I agree"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1942.36,"endTime":1945.0,"body":"with you about the data"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1945.0,"endTime":1946.32,"body":"but at the same time,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1946.32,"endTime":1949.04,"body":"when we're using wrong"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1946.32,"endTime":1949.04,"body":"data and stuff,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1949.04,"endTime":1950.87,"body":"that's also really"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1949.04,"endTime":1950.87,"body":"making things worse"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1950.87,"endTime":1952.88,"body":"so, actually, if we are going"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1950.87,"endTime":1952.88,"body":"to go after the data,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1952.88,"endTime":1954.74,"body":"let's actually get"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1952.88,"endTime":1954.74,"body":"the accurate data"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1954.74,"endTime":1957.62,"body":"and I know you agree with and I"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1954.74,"endTime":1957.62,"body":"know we need to close, Neil."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1957.62,"endTime":1958.9,"body":"Back to you."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1958.9,"endTime":1961.28,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1958.9,"endTime":1961.28,"body":"So, I need to thank our friends,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1961.28,"endTime":1963.01,"body":"My Cleartext and Amazon"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1961.28,"endTime":1963.01,"body":"for keeping us On Air"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1963.01,"endTime":1964.25,"body":"and keeping us captioned"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1964.25,"endTime":1967.84,"body":"and we look forward"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1964.25,"endTime":1967.84,"body":"to continuing this conversation"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1968.49,"endTime":1970.09,"body":"on social media."}]}