{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":1.28,"body":"AXSCHAT"},{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":1.28,"body":"Jamie Shields"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1.28,"endTime":2.98,"body":"Hello and welcome to Axschat."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2.98,"endTime":4.41,"body":"I'm delighted"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2.98,"endTime":4.41,"body":"that we are joined today"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":4.41,"endTime":6.21,"body":"by Jamie Shields,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":4.41,"endTime":6.21,"body":"who is trainer,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":6.21,"endTime":9.58,"body":"advocate, speaker,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":6.21,"endTime":9.58,"body":"on social media"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":9.58,"endTime":11.99,"body":"other places and ambassador"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":9.58,"endTime":11.99,"body":"for Billion Strong as well."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":11.99,"endTime":13.95,"body":"So welcome, Jamie."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":14.83,"endTime":16.03,"body":"Thank you so much for having me."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":16.03,"endTime":18.33,"body":"Thank you so much, Twin."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":18.33,"endTime":19.59,"body":"Thank you for joining us today."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":19.59,"endTime":20.86,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":20.86,"endTime":22.28,"body":"Debra obviously"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":20.86,"endTime":22.28,"body":"didn't get the memo."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":22.28,"endTime":26.49,"body":"But let's strap in. It's going"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":22.28,"endTime":26.49,"body":"to be a fast ride through,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":26.49,"endTime":27.79,"body":"you know a number of topics."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":27.79,"endTime":30.38,"body":"So Jamie, tell us a bit"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":27.79,"endTime":30.38,"body":"about yourself"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":30.38,"endTime":34.25,"body":"and how you came to be"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":30.38,"endTime":34.25,"body":"in this space,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":34.25,"endTime":36.8,"body":"advocating for all of the things"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":34.25,"endTime":36.8,"body":"that you do?"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":37.68,"endTime":40.91,"body":"Yes, so I am"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":37.68,"endTime":40.91,"body":"from Northern Ireland."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":40.91,"endTime":44.32,"body":"Hence the really strong"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":40.91,"endTime":44.32,"body":"messed up accent."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":44.32,"endTime":48.85,"body":"I am registered blind"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":44.32,"endTime":48.85,"body":"and autistic, I'm ADHD,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":48.85,"endTime":50.97,"body":"I collect disabilities"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":48.85,"endTime":50.97,"body":"like Pokémon cards."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":50.97,"endTime":53.37,"body":"Apparently, the older I get,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":50.97,"endTime":53.37,"body":"the more I acquire."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":54.13,"endTime":56.52,"body":"But I have struggled"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":54.13,"endTime":56.52,"body":"most of my life"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":57.14,"endTime":60.01,"body":"because of inaccessibility,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":57.14,"endTime":60.01,"body":"because of the ableism,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":60.01,"endTime":62.29,"body":"because of not accepting"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":60.01,"endTime":62.29,"body":"who I was,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":62.29,"endTime":64.26,"body":"I hated being disabled."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":64.26,"endTime":67.11,"body":"And fast forward"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":64.26,"endTime":67.11,"body":"to like five years ago,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":67.11,"endTime":69.19,"body":"I landed a job,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":67.11,"endTime":69.19,"body":"in recruitment"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":69.19,"endTime":71.51,"body":"after struggling to gain"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":69.19,"endTime":71.51,"body":"and retain employment."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":71.51,"endTime":73.41,"body":"I then was promoted"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":71.51,"endTime":73.41,"body":"quite quickly"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":73.41,"endTime":76.77,"body":"and became their accessibility"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":73.41,"endTime":76.77,"body":"and kind of their advisor,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":76.77,"endTime":79.05,"body":"the tester in all things to do"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":76.77,"endTime":79.05,"body":"with using a screen reader"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":79.05,"endTime":82.57,"body":"and things like that"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":79.05,"endTime":82.57,"body":"and became a global ERG lead,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":83.63,"endTime":85.6,"body":"won lots of awards,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":83.63,"endTime":85.6,"body":"don't know how."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":85.6,"endTime":88.23,"body":"Helped the company became a lot"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":85.6,"endTime":88.23,"body":"more inclusive than they were."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":88.23,"endTime":89.98,"body":"And then, I kind of,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":88.23,"endTime":89.98,"body":"in corporate,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":89.98,"endTime":92.57,"body":"I loved working in corporate"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":89.98,"endTime":92.57,"body":"because I had that itch,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":92.57,"endTime":95.02,"body":"because we know there's"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":92.57,"endTime":95.02,"body":"a particular time in corporate"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":95.02,"endTime":96.34,"body":"to get things to get done."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":96.34,"endTime":99.67,"body":"So I started a side hustle"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":96.34,"endTime":99.67,"body":"which was, Disabled by Society,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":99.67,"endTime":102.09,"body":"because that was exactly"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":99.67,"endTime":102.09,"body":"what I was all my life"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":102.68,"endTime":104.53,"body":"and then if that wasn't enough,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":102.68,"endTime":104.53,"body":"I was like,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":104.53,"endTime":106.4,"body":"let's just through"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":104.53,"endTime":106.4,"body":"another thing in there"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":106.4,"endTime":109.46,"body":"and I also co-founded"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":106.4,"endTime":109.46,"body":"Unlearning Ableism,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":109.46,"endTime":111.55,"body":"which is a kind"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":109.46,"endTime":111.55,"body":"of social movement"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":111.55,"endTime":115.95,"body":"along with a lady"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":111.55,"endTime":115.95,"body":"called Celia Ars,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":116.77,"endTime":118.37,"body":"She just got married."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":120.54,"endTime":121.93,"body":"Excellent."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":121.93,"endTime":127.81,"body":"And I've often come"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":121.93,"endTime":127.81,"body":"across your content in LinkedIn"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":128.97,"endTime":132.48,"body":"and you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":128.97,"endTime":132.48,"body":"it's really graphical"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":133.12,"endTime":135.72,"body":"and makes people stop"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":133.12,"endTime":135.72,"body":"and think."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":135.72,"endTime":142.14,"body":"You used a word there that a lot"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":135.72,"endTime":142.14,"body":"of people are uncomfortable with"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":142.14,"endTime":145.02,"body":"and that's the ableism word;"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":142.14,"endTime":145.02,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":146.07,"endTime":152.4,"body":"And I think that there is a lot"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":146.07,"endTime":152.4,"body":"to unpack in the word Ableism"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":152.4,"endTime":154.94,"body":"and before we came on air,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":152.4,"endTime":154.94,"body":"for example,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":154.94,"endTime":156.96,"body":"Debra was talking about it"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":154.94,"endTime":156.96,"body":"and saying,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":156.96,"endTime":158.67,"body":"it's a word we use it."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":158.67,"endTime":161.56,"body":"The community use it."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":158.67,"endTime":161.56,"body":"It is a word."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":161.56,"endTime":164.89,"body":"So Oxford English dictionary,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":161.56,"endTime":164.89,"body":"ableism is there."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":165.54,"endTime":170.24,"body":"What it says is you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":165.54,"endTime":170.24,"body":"and this is the best bit,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":170.96,"endTime":177.3,"body":"is ableist in its language"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":170.96,"endTime":177.3,"body":"of how it describes ableism"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":178.15,"endTime":182.09,"body":"because it talks about able"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":178.15,"endTime":182.09,"body":"bodied people and actually,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":182.09,"endTime":185.94,"body":"if you think about how we want"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":182.09,"endTime":185.94,"body":"to conceptualise you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":185.94,"endTime":191.11,"body":"social or models of disability"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":185.94,"endTime":191.11,"body":"or you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":191.11,"endTime":193.79,"body":"the bio psycho"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":191.11,"endTime":193.79,"body":"social model of disability,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":193.79,"endTime":198.0,"body":"you don't talk about able bodied"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":193.79,"endTime":198.0,"body":"people verses disabled people,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":198.0,"endTime":202.81,"body":"you talk about people who don't"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":198.0,"endTime":202.81,"body":"have disabilities or whatever."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":202.81,"endTime":205.39,"body":"So it's really interesting"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":202.81,"endTime":205.39,"body":"that we are using a word"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":205.39,"endTime":208.85,"body":"that is built"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":205.39,"endTime":208.85,"body":"upon ableism in itself."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":208.85,"endTime":211.72,"body":"So language is complex."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":211.72,"endTime":214.22,"body":"And the definition"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":211.72,"endTime":214.22,"body":"is so wrong as well."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":214.22,"endTime":216.01,"body":"Every decade you go"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":214.22,"endTime":216.01,"body":"through in effect,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":216.01,"endTime":218.98,"body":"the less favourable treatment"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":216.01,"endTime":218.98,"body":"of disabled people is like,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":218.98,"endTime":220.26,"body":"it's like everything"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":218.98,"endTime":220.26,"body":"in disability,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":220.26,"endTime":223.0,"body":"we have such sugar-coated"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":220.26,"endTime":223.0,"body":"soft language around it."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":223.0,"endTime":225.0,"body":"If you hear racism, you're like,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":223.0,"endTime":225.0,"body":"I know what that is,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":225.0,"endTime":227.2,"body":"if you get sexism,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":225.0,"endTime":227.2,"body":"you know what it is."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":227.2,"endTime":230.57,"body":"You hear ableism,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":227.2,"endTime":230.57,"body":"it's like, what is that?"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":230.57,"endTime":232.5,"body":"So it's like, we don't have"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":230.57,"endTime":232.5,"body":"that same reaction,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":232.5,"endTime":235.01,"body":"because it's not defined"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":232.5,"endTime":235.01,"body":"strongly enough."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":235.01,"endTime":236.64,"body":"Yes, yes."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":236.64,"endTime":237.93,"body":"I mean, I think"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":237.93,"endTime":240.38,"body":"that's it and people are like,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":237.93,"endTime":240.38,"body":"what is this?"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":240.89,"endTime":243.66,"body":"Oh I don't like this,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":240.89,"endTime":243.66,"body":"or you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":243.66,"endTime":246.22,"body":"we see a lot of metaphor"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":243.66,"endTime":246.22,"body":"as well."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":246.22,"endTime":247.43,"body":"Mm hmm."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":247.43,"endTime":250.82,"body":"You know, when someone"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":247.43,"endTime":250.82,"body":"deploys the metaphor you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":251.83,"endTime":254.41,"body":"you know that they have got"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":251.83,"endTime":254.41,"body":"a level of discomfort"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":254.41,"endTime":257.75,"body":"with the word disability."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":259.82,"endTime":263.4,"body":"So obviously you're out there,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":263.4,"endTime":267.86,"body":"you're talking, discussing stuff"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":263.4,"endTime":267.86,"body":"on social media,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":268.44,"endTime":270.95,"body":"what do you find in terms"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":268.44,"endTime":270.95,"body":"of the reactions"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":270.95,"endTime":272.98,"body":"to the stuff you post?"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":272.98,"endTime":275.25,"body":"Is it positive?"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":272.98,"endTime":275.25,"body":"Do you get push back?"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":277.55,"endTime":279.33,"body":"It's a bit of everything,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":277.55,"endTime":279.33,"body":"so it does."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":279.33,"endTime":281.85,"body":"Like there will be people"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":279.33,"endTime":281.85,"body":"who will argue back"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":281.85,"endTime":283.48,"body":"because, you're so woke,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":281.85,"endTime":283.48,"body":"you're so sensitive"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":283.48,"endTime":284.87,"body":"and I'm like,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":283.48,"endTime":284.87,"body":"let's call it about the fact"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":284.87,"endTime":286.15,"body":"that you want to call me"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":286.15,"endTime":287.43,"body":"because I'm talking"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":286.15,"endTime":287.43,"body":"about something"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":287.43,"endTime":288.9,"body":"that makes you uncomfortable."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":287.43,"endTime":288.9,"body":"You do that."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":288.9,"endTime":292.11,"body":"But for me I find that when"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":288.9,"endTime":292.11,"body":"we don't talk about something"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":292.11,"endTime":293.57,"body":"that's uncomfortable"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":292.11,"endTime":293.57,"body":"it gets buried"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":293.57,"endTime":296.37,"body":"and then it becomes a big,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":293.57,"endTime":296.37,"body":"massive dramatic thing."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":296.37,"endTime":298.01,"body":"Whereas I have always,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":298.01,"endTime":300.74,"body":"not always but after years"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":298.01,"endTime":300.74,"body":"of struggling with disability,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":300.74,"endTime":302.08,"body":"I tend to say actually,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":302.08,"endTime":303.73,"body":"talk about"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":302.08,"endTime":303.73,"body":"this uncomfortable stuff"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":303.73,"endTime":306.85,"body":"and getting comfortable doing"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":303.73,"endTime":306.85,"body":"that is actually so beneficial"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":306.85,"endTime":309.07,"body":"because from that we're able"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":306.85,"endTime":309.07,"body":"to ask those questions"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":309.07,"endTime":310.55,"body":"that we are afraid to ask."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":310.55,"endTime":313.09,"body":"So I think for me,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":310.55,"endTime":313.09,"body":"in terms of the community,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":313.67,"endTime":315.99,"body":"the disabled people,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":313.67,"endTime":315.99,"body":"neurodiverse people,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":315.99,"endTime":317.34,"body":"the response has been"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":315.99,"endTime":317.34,"body":"incredible,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":317.34,"endTime":320.34,"body":"you know, people messaging me"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":317.34,"endTime":320.34,"body":"saying, I feel validated."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":320.34,"endTime":322.03,"body":"You know, I didn't know"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":320.34,"endTime":322.03,"body":"what the term ableism"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":322.03,"endTime":323.69,"body":"was until you start"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":322.03,"endTime":323.69,"body":"speaking about this"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":323.69,"endTime":325.78,"body":"and it's oh my goodness,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":325.78,"endTime":328.12,"body":"if I would have done"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":325.78,"endTime":328.12,"body":"this ten years ago"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":328.12,"endTime":329.49,"body":"the impact it would have"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":328.12,"endTime":329.49,"body":"had on me"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":329.49,"endTime":331.91,"body":"as a person"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":329.49,"endTime":331.91,"body":"would have been phenomenal."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":331.91,"endTime":333.5,"body":"I can see it now"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":331.91,"endTime":333.5,"body":"happening for others"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":333.5,"endTime":334.72,"body":"and I'm like these"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":333.5,"endTime":334.72,"body":"are conversations"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":334.72,"endTime":335.94,"body":"that we need to have."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":335.94,"endTime":339.05,"body":"And of course then"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":335.94,"endTime":339.05,"body":"from our nondisabled peers,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":339.05,"endTime":341.18,"body":"sometimes as I said,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":339.05,"endTime":341.18,"body":"you get called woke,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":341.18,"endTime":343.48,"body":"you get called sensitive"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":341.18,"endTime":343.48,"body":"you get called angry"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":343.48,"endTime":345.26,"body":"or just another angry person."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":345.26,"endTime":346.87,"body":"But they're all"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":345.26,"endTime":346.87,"body":"ableist narratives"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":346.87,"endTime":349.1,"body":"because you don't understand"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":346.87,"endTime":349.1,"body":"what ableism is."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":349.1,"endTime":352.51,"body":"As much as I get the push back"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":349.1,"endTime":352.51,"body":"from it, it kind of motivates me"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":352.51,"endTime":353.9,"body":"because you're just like,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":353.9,"endTime":355.46,"body":"you just left something"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":353.9,"endTime":355.46,"body":"ableist my post."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":355.46,"endTime":356.69,"body":"I'm going to go"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":355.46,"endTime":356.69,"body":"and do another post"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":356.69,"endTime":359.08,"body":"and teach others"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":356.69,"endTime":359.08,"body":"why that was ableist."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":359.08,"endTime":363.58,"body":"So it's a cycle. It's a joy."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":359.08,"endTime":363.58,"body":"It's fun. It's educational."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":363.58,"endTime":366.79,"body":"But for me, it's that impact,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":363.58,"endTime":366.79,"body":"when that person reaches out"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":366.79,"endTime":370.0,"body":"and says I now know"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":366.79,"endTime":370.0,"body":"what I think this is, thank you."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":370.58,"endTime":372.26,"body":"I have connected to somebody"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":370.58,"endTime":372.26,"body":"in a way"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":372.26,"endTime":374.53,"body":"that I wish"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":372.26,"endTime":374.53,"body":"I would have had years ago."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":374.53,"endTime":375.78,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":375.78,"endTime":378.54,"body":"And I want to say welcome"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":375.78,"endTime":378.54,"body":"to the programme, Jamie."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":378.54,"endTime":381.1,"body":"I am a big fan."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":378.54,"endTime":381.1,"body":"I love your work."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":381.1,"endTime":384.33,"body":"You know I love your work"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":381.1,"endTime":384.33,"body":"because actually I found it"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":384.33,"endTime":388.14,"body":"very interesting that one day"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":384.33,"endTime":388.14,"body":"I did a little tiny post"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":388.14,"endTime":390.8,"body":"that was just quoting"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":388.14,"endTime":390.8,"body":"something you said,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":391.76,"endTime":395.16,"body":"I could not believe"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":391.76,"endTime":395.16,"body":"what happened to that post."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":395.16,"endTime":397.98,"body":"Most of my posts which I think"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":395.16,"endTime":397.98,"body":"is really good"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":397.98,"endTime":400.0,"body":"get about 3,000, 4,000."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":400.6,"endTime":406.09,"body":"This got over 96,000,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":400.6,"endTime":406.09,"body":"just this one little post"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":406.09,"endTime":407.81,"body":"that I did"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":406.09,"endTime":407.81,"body":"of something you said."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":409.45,"endTime":413.2,"body":"It was so interesting,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":409.45,"endTime":413.2,"body":"the conversations"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":413.2,"endTime":414.96,"body":"and, I will be honest with you,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":414.96,"endTime":419.08,"body":"I've been trying really hard"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":414.96,"endTime":419.08,"body":"to be the nice girl for years."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":419.08,"endTime":421.98,"body":"I was just trying to be nice,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":419.08,"endTime":421.98,"body":"be nice with sugar,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":421.98,"endTime":423.87,"body":"be nice with honey,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":421.98,"endTime":423.87,"body":"blah, blah, blah."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":423.87,"endTime":427.51,"body":"But then I started seeing your"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":423.87,"endTime":427.51,"body":"work and other people's work"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":428.25,"endTime":433.59,"body":"and when you sort of get"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":428.25,"endTime":433.59,"body":"under somebody's skin"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":433.59,"endTime":436.69,"body":"or say something to them"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":433.59,"endTime":436.69,"body":"that annoys them"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":437.51,"endTime":439.68,"body":"and they come back"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":437.51,"endTime":439.68,"body":"and it produces,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":439.68,"endTime":444.0,"body":"it can if we allow it, really,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":439.68,"endTime":444.0,"body":"really powerful conversations."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":444.0,"endTime":449.9,"body":"And so I was shocked that"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":444.0,"endTime":449.9,"body":"every time I talk about ableism,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":449.9,"endTime":453.26,"body":"my channel explodes."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":449.9,"endTime":453.26,"body":"It just explodes."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":453.26,"endTime":457.51,"body":"And with a mostly 99% of it"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":453.26,"endTime":457.51,"body":"is very positive."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":457.51,"endTime":460.72,"body":"But then I do have some in there"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":457.51,"endTime":460.72,"body":"that want to argue with it,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":460.72,"endTime":464.89,"body":"and I find what is interesting"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":460.72,"endTime":464.89,"body":"to me is that often"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":464.89,"endTime":470.31,"body":"they want to attack"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":464.89,"endTime":470.31,"body":"the corporations in a way,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":470.87,"endTime":475.31,"body":"to explain their point of why"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":470.87,"endTime":475.31,"body":"I don't understand ableism"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":475.31,"endTime":479.39,"body":"or why blah, blah, blah."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":475.31,"endTime":479.39,"body":"And so, I do know Jamie"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":479.39,"endTime":482.49,"body":"that this makes corporate"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":479.39,"endTime":482.49,"body":"employers nervous, these words."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":482.49,"endTime":483.74,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":483.74,"endTime":486.02,"body":"Especially here"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":483.74,"endTime":486.02,"body":"in the United States."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":486.02,"endTime":488.18,"body":"I mean it really"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":486.02,"endTime":488.18,"body":"freaks people out"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":488.18,"endTime":492.04,"body":"and also I think people"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":488.18,"endTime":492.04,"body":"are a little bit still confused"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":492.04,"endTime":493.33,"body":"by the meaning it of it"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":493.33,"endTime":498.84,"body":"because ableism,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":493.33,"endTime":498.84,"body":"does that mean okay,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":498.84,"endTime":503.37,"body":"it's just interesting"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":498.84,"endTime":503.37,"body":"to watch people try to unpack it"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":504.56,"endTime":507.78,"body":"and I just wanted to thank you"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":504.56,"endTime":507.78,"body":"for just boldly,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":507.78,"endTime":512.34,"body":"bravely just jumping in there."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":507.78,"endTime":512.34,"body":"And also, I want to thank you"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":512.34,"endTime":515.82,"body":"for also talking about"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":512.34,"endTime":515.82,"body":"your other identities"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":515.82,"endTime":519.08,"body":"because the intersectionality"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":515.82,"endTime":519.08,"body":"of diversity"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":519.08,"endTime":522.25,"body":"and these conversations,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":519.08,"endTime":522.25,"body":"it is so powerful."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":522.25,"endTime":525.04,"body":"Like you said, when we are"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":522.25,"endTime":525.04,"body":"talking about you know"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":525.04,"endTime":526.64,"body":"gender issues"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":525.04,"endTime":526.64,"body":"or race issues,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":526.64,"endTime":528.91,"body":"a lot of times we pretty"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":526.64,"endTime":528.91,"body":"much talk understand"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":528.91,"endTime":531.04,"body":"about what you're saying,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":528.91,"endTime":531.04,"body":"but you start talking about this"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":531.04,"endTime":534.68,"body":"and people do not understand."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":531.04,"endTime":534.68,"body":"They get confused."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":534.68,"endTime":536.06,"body":"A 100%."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":536.06,"endTime":537.45,"body":"I can't believe"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":536.06,"endTime":537.45,"body":"I am talking to you,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":537.45,"endTime":539.34,"body":"Debra because"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":537.45,"endTime":539.34,"body":"I followed you for so long"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":539.34,"endTime":540.94,"body":"and you're like"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":539.34,"endTime":540.94,"body":"an idol to me."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":541.53,"endTime":545.71,"body":"But for me, I don't want"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":541.53,"endTime":545.71,"body":"to sound selfish"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":545.71,"endTime":548.83,"body":"but I didn't talk about"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":545.71,"endTime":548.83,"body":"my disability for years"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":548.83,"endTime":551.03,"body":"and I got my job"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":548.83,"endTime":551.03,"body":"five years ago in recruitment,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":551.03,"endTime":552.53,"body":"that's when I learned"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":551.03,"endTime":552.53,"body":"to articulate"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":552.53,"endTime":554.91,"body":"and when I actually started"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":552.53,"endTime":554.91,"body":"almost changing the narrative"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":554.91,"endTime":556.57,"body":"I had about myself"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":556.57,"endTime":558.21,"body":"and it was because"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":556.57,"endTime":558.21,"body":"of people like yourselves"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":558.21,"endTime":559.8,"body":"who would change"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":558.21,"endTime":559.8,"body":"the conversations"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":559.8,"endTime":561.7,"body":"who were changing the"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":559.8,"endTime":561.7,"body":"conversations about disability"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":561.7,"endTime":563.26,"body":"and for me it was like,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":561.7,"endTime":563.26,"body":"I feel like mermaid."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":563.26,"endTime":565.62,"body":"Somebody gave me my voice"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":563.26,"endTime":565.62,"body":"because I had lost my voice,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":565.62,"endTime":567.47,"body":"and somebody gave me it back"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":565.62,"endTime":567.47,"body":"and now you can't shut me up."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":567.47,"endTime":569.82,"body":"So I think for me it's like,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":569.82,"endTime":571.38,"body":"I am making up for"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":569.82,"endTime":571.38,"body":"so much lost time now"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":571.38,"endTime":574.85,"body":"and I am trying to keep up"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":571.38,"endTime":574.85,"body":"with everybody else but ableism,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":574.85,"endTime":576.86,"body":"we had such a fear of it"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":574.85,"endTime":576.86,"body":"because we are not educated,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":576.86,"endTime":578.38,"body":"we just don't know what it is"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":578.38,"endTime":580.429,"body":"and we always fear"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":578.38,"endTime":580.429,"body":"the unknown, don't we?"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":582.14,"endTime":586.32,"body":"Yes. And Jamie what"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":582.14,"endTime":586.32,"body":"would you define ableism as."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":586.32,"endTime":589.21,"body":"I know that Neil already"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":586.32,"endTime":589.21,"body":"talked a little bit"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":589.21,"endTime":590.42,"body":"about the real definition,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":590.42,"endTime":595.11,"body":"but I would love that and then"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":590.42,"endTime":595.11,"body":"let me pass it over to Antonio,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":595.11,"endTime":597.52,"body":"so I don't go on"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":595.11,"endTime":597.52,"body":"and on too much."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":597.52,"endTime":598.8,"body":"Perfect."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":598.8,"endTime":600.5,"body":"Well, with ableism,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":598.8,"endTime":600.5,"body":"I will say one day,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":600.5,"endTime":601.88,"body":"I will be contacting"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":600.5,"endTime":601.88,"body":"the dictionary"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":601.88,"endTime":603.16,"body":"to change that definition"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":603.16,"endTime":605.72,"body":"because it needs to be"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":603.16,"endTime":605.72,"body":"brought into the 21st century."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":605.72,"endTime":607.59,"body":"So short term regarding ableism,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":607.59,"endTime":609.58,"body":"it's been around"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":607.59,"endTime":609.58,"body":"since the 1970s."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":609.58,"endTime":612.38,"body":"It was coined back then."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":609.58,"endTime":612.38,"body":"It kind of disappeared."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":612.38,"endTime":613.61,"body":"We spoke on this Podcast,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":613.61,"endTime":615.51,"body":"the reason why people"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":613.61,"endTime":615.51,"body":"took it for granted."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":615.51,"endTime":617.56,"body":"But for me ableism"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":615.51,"endTime":617.56,"body":"is not a one set thing."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":617.56,"endTime":620.29,"body":"You can't define it"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":617.56,"endTime":620.29,"body":"as it's this or that."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":620.29,"endTime":621.53,"body":"It's individuals,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":621.53,"endTime":623.85,"body":"so each individual experiences"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":621.53,"endTime":623.85,"body":"it differently."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":623.85,"endTime":626.56,"body":"But that ableism"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":623.85,"endTime":626.56,"body":"is in behaviours,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":626.56,"endTime":629.1,"body":"it's learned behaviours,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":626.56,"endTime":629.1,"body":"it's pitying disable people."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":629.1,"endTime":630.39,"body":"It's putting us on pedestals"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":630.39,"endTime":631.74,"body":"because we did"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":630.39,"endTime":631.74,"body":"something amazing,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":631.74,"endTime":635.16,"body":"like tying our shoelace."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":631.74,"endTime":635.16,"body":"It's lays laziness."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":635.16,"endTime":637.6,"body":"Accessibility is ableist"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":635.16,"endTime":637.6,"body":"because it's already treating"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":637.6,"endTime":639.12,"body":"a disabled"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":637.6,"endTime":639.12,"body":"person differently."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":639.12,"endTime":641.16,"body":"It's already splitting"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":639.12,"endTime":641.16,"body":"from the offset."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":641.16,"endTime":643.19,"body":"So it's behaviour."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":641.16,"endTime":643.19,"body":"It's inaccessibility."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":643.19,"endTime":647.04,"body":"It's bias, it's stereotypes,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":643.19,"endTime":647.04,"body":"it's discrimination."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":647.04,"endTime":650.24,"body":"It is a collective group"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":647.04,"endTime":650.24,"body":"of experiences"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":650.24,"endTime":652.68,"body":"and things that have become"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":650.24,"endTime":652.68,"body":"socially acceptable,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":653.91,"endTime":655.22,"body":"and I think"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":653.91,"endTime":655.22,"body":"this is the problem."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":655.22,"endTime":656.85,"body":"You know, when we talk"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":655.22,"endTime":656.85,"body":"about racism,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":656.85,"endTime":658.11,"body":"which we talked about earlier."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":658.11,"endTime":659.62,"body":"We know that's a cycle"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":658.11,"endTime":659.62,"body":"of oppression"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":659.62,"endTime":661.36,"body":"that exists within society."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":661.36,"endTime":662.97,"body":"So ableism is a cycle"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":661.36,"endTime":662.97,"body":"of oppression"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":662.97,"endTime":665.78,"body":"that exists in society,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":662.97,"endTime":665.78,"body":"against disabled people."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":666.73,"endTime":668.25,"body":"And nondisabled people"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":666.73,"endTime":668.25,"body":"don't realise"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":668.25,"endTime":669.86,"body":"because they are not"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":668.25,"endTime":669.86,"body":"educated in school."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":669.86,"endTime":671.43,"body":"We are not educated in school."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":671.43,"endTime":673.63,"body":"And what happens as a result of"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":671.43,"endTime":673.63,"body":"is that ableism,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":673.63,"endTime":675.72,"body":"yes, we get excluded"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":673.63,"endTime":675.72,"body":"and discriminated"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":675.72,"endTime":677.07,"body":"but equally, disabled people"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":677.07,"endTime":680.09,"body":"then have to manage the"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":677.07,"endTime":680.09,"body":"psychological impact of that,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":680.09,"endTime":682.98,"body":"what comes through"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":680.09,"endTime":682.98,"body":"as internalised ableism,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":682.98,"endTime":685.56,"body":"where we don't advocate,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":682.98,"endTime":685.56,"body":"or we don't ask for adjustments."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":685.56,"endTime":688.54,"body":"We don't share"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":685.56,"endTime":688.54,"body":"enough experiences."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":688.54,"endTime":691.2,"body":"We become isolated."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":688.54,"endTime":691.2,"body":"In my case you know,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":691.89,"endTime":693.76,"body":"I was self-harming,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":691.89,"endTime":693.76,"body":"I was binge drinking."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":693.76,"endTime":697.85,"body":"I was struggling to be a person"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":693.76,"endTime":697.85,"body":"who functions in society"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":697.85,"endTime":699.88,"body":"because I couldn't gain"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":697.85,"endTime":699.88,"body":"or retain employment."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":699.88,"endTime":702.36,"body":"So I think that"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":699.88,"endTime":702.36,"body":"when we talk about ableism,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":702.36,"endTime":704.02,"body":"we have to acknowledge,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":702.36,"endTime":704.02,"body":"it's not one thing."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":704.02,"endTime":705.57,"body":"Everyone explains it"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":704.02,"endTime":705.57,"body":"so differently"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":705.57,"endTime":708.06,"body":"because we all have different"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":705.57,"endTime":708.06,"body":"ways to cope or manage."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":708.06,"endTime":710.93,"body":"Our mental health is so"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":708.06,"endTime":710.93,"body":"diversely our own mental health."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":710.93,"endTime":712.47,"body":"So it impacts us."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":712.47,"endTime":714.68,"body":"So to have a conversation"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":712.47,"endTime":714.68,"body":"about ableism"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":714.68,"endTime":717.08,"body":"is if you don't understand"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":714.68,"endTime":717.08,"body":"anything about it is,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":717.67,"endTime":719.62,"body":"accept that even"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":717.67,"endTime":719.62,"body":"with the best intent,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":719.62,"endTime":721.9,"body":"you probably have been ableist"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":719.62,"endTime":721.9,"body":"at some point in your life."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":721.9,"endTime":724.32,"body":"It's the unlearning"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":721.9,"endTime":724.32,"body":"and taking that accountability"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":724.32,"endTime":726.63,"body":"is how we see"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":724.32,"endTime":726.63,"body":"that societal shift."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":726.63,"endTime":729.25,"body":"I hope that was okay."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":729.25,"endTime":731.599,"body":"I went into a bit of"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":729.25,"endTime":731.599,"body":"rabbit hole at that stage."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":732.13,"endTime":733.88,"body":"I loved it. Antonio?"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":734.96,"endTime":739.32,"body":"So one of the things"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":734.96,"endTime":739.32,"body":"that I see here"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":739.32,"endTime":743.88,"body":"is that the word"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":739.32,"endTime":743.88,"body":"is also used by people who,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":743.88,"endTime":745.63,"body":"English is not"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":743.88,"endTime":745.63,"body":"their first language"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":746.33,"endTime":748.25,"body":"and sometimes when they search"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":746.33,"endTime":748.25,"body":"learn online"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":748.25,"endTime":749.48,"body":"about the definition,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":749.48,"endTime":752.9,"body":"they might end up in"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":749.48,"endTime":752.9,"body":"the wrong definition to search."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":753.66,"endTime":757.43,"body":"So they might believe"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":753.66,"endTime":757.43,"body":"I'm saying this"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":757.43,"endTime":759.88,"body":"or that"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":757.43,"endTime":759.88,"body":"with a certain intention"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":760.44,"endTime":764.79,"body":"and they end up doing something"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":760.44,"endTime":764.79,"body":"that they were not really,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":765.53,"endTime":768.62,"body":"that were not what they planned"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":765.53,"endTime":768.62,"body":"to do or talk about."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":769.27,"endTime":773.78,"body":"So sometimes you can"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":769.27,"endTime":773.78,"body":"mislead people, who are not,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":773.78,"endTime":776.82,"body":"who the language is not English"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":773.78,"endTime":776.82,"body":"as the first language."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":777.39,"endTime":778.99,"body":"And on the other hand,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":779.63,"endTime":783.84,"body":"they are translations"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":779.63,"endTime":783.84,"body":"of the word to other languages,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":784.8,"endTime":789.35,"body":"who have different definitions"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":784.8,"endTime":789.35,"body":"of the English language."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":789.35,"endTime":792.19,"body":"So it can be quite difficult"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":792.72,"endTime":797.27,"body":"to find a tune"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":792.72,"endTime":797.27,"body":"between different cultures"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":797.27,"endTime":798.86,"body":"when you talk"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":797.27,"endTime":798.86,"body":"about ableism,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":798.86,"endTime":802.99,"body":"about what we are really talking"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":798.86,"endTime":802.99,"body":"about because sometimes even"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":802.99,"endTime":805.8,"body":"if people are all expressing"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":802.99,"endTime":805.8,"body":"themselves in English,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":806.31,"endTime":809.109,"body":"on their own they might be"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":806.31,"endTime":809.109,"body":"assuming something different."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":809.82,"endTime":812.55,"body":"So I think we need"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":809.82,"endTime":812.55,"body":"to be mindful of that."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":812.55,"endTime":818.93,"body":"Particularly when we try to just"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":812.55,"endTime":818.93,"body":"go after and judge something,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":818.93,"endTime":820.63,"body":"someone for something,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":818.93,"endTime":820.63,"body":"we need,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":820.63,"endTime":823.41,"body":"oh, maybe this someone"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":820.63,"endTime":823.41,"body":"from India,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":823.41,"endTime":824.73,"body":"this is someone from Brazil."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":824.73,"endTime":828.99,"body":"You know, we need to have"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":824.73,"endTime":828.99,"body":"that in mind before just jumping"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":828.99,"endTime":830.89,"body":"and commenting"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":828.99,"endTime":830.89,"body":"and doing something."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":832.21,"endTime":833.46,"body":"100%."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":833.46,"endTime":836.0,"body":"I think that when you are"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":833.46,"endTime":836.0,"body":"a global citizen,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":836.0,"endTime":837.63,"body":"and we are all global citizens"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":836.0,"endTime":837.63,"body":"in this world."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":837.63,"endTime":839.06,"body":"And I think when we look"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":837.63,"endTime":839.06,"body":"at disability"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":839.06,"endTime":840.3,"body":"through a global lens,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":840.3,"endTime":842.58,"body":"we see so much disparity"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":840.3,"endTime":842.58,"body":"between each region."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":842.58,"endTime":844.84,"body":"There is so much good being done"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":842.58,"endTime":844.84,"body":"in one reason and you're like,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":844.84,"endTime":846.14,"body":"why can't you do"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":844.84,"endTime":846.14,"body":"that where I live."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":846.14,"endTime":848.41,"body":"There is so much work"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":846.14,"endTime":848.41,"body":"being done."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":848.41,"endTime":850.88,"body":"But technically around"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":848.41,"endTime":850.88,"body":"the language itself eventually."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":850.88,"endTime":852.26,"body":"In the UK"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":850.88,"endTime":852.26,"body":"we wouldn't use the word"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":852.26,"endTime":853.89,"body":"and I am sorry if anyone"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":852.26,"endTime":853.89,"body":"doesn't like the word,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":853.89,"endTime":855.35,"body":"we don't use the word"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":853.89,"endTime":855.35,"body":"handicapped,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":855.35,"endTime":857.68,"body":"but in other parts of the world,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":855.35,"endTime":857.68,"body":"they still use that language"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":857.68,"endTime":859.54,"body":"and they find it"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":857.68,"endTime":859.54,"body":"rather empowering."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":859.54,"endTime":861.14,"body":"And if we look at it"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":859.54,"endTime":861.14,"body":"through that lens,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":861.14,"endTime":864.93,"body":"I would say is, things get lost"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":861.14,"endTime":864.93,"body":"in translation all of the time"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":864.93,"endTime":867.82,"body":"and it's about that intent."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":864.93,"endTime":867.82,"body":"I say this to everybody."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":867.82,"endTime":870.49,"body":"Whether somebody"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":867.82,"endTime":870.49,"body":"is maliciously,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":870.49,"endTime":873.01,"body":"you know when someone"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":870.49,"endTime":873.01,"body":"is being malicious to you,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":873.01,"endTime":874.9,"body":"you can feel that intent."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":874.9,"endTime":876.6,"body":"So you know when somebody"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":874.9,"endTime":876.6,"body":"has said the wrong thing"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":876.6,"endTime":878.08,"body":"or acted the wrong way,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":878.08,"endTime":879.83,"body":"don't automatically"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":878.08,"endTime":879.83,"body":"go in on the attack."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":879.83,"endTime":881.13,"body":"See it as a moment to educate."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":881.13,"endTime":883.12,"body":"Because again,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":881.13,"endTime":883.12,"body":"if you're a disabled person"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":883.12,"endTime":886.07,"body":"and you didn't know what ableism"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":883.12,"endTime":886.07,"body":"was until later in life"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":886.07,"endTime":888.419,"body":"or at some point in your life"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":886.07,"endTime":888.419,"body":"you had to learn,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":889.03,"endTime":891.1,"body":"how do we expect"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":889.03,"endTime":891.1,"body":"a nondisabled person to know it"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":891.1,"endTime":893.15,"body":"and more importantly,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":891.1,"endTime":893.15,"body":"how do we expect somebody"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":893.15,"endTime":894.86,"body":"who, English not"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":893.15,"endTime":894.86,"body":"their first language,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":894.86,"endTime":897.72,"body":"to know the origins"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":894.86,"endTime":897.72,"body":"or meanings of this word,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":897.72,"endTime":899.22,"body":"if it does get lost"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":897.72,"endTime":899.22,"body":"in translation,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":899.22,"endTime":900.83,"body":"you know we are expecting"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":899.22,"endTime":900.83,"body":"everybody to know"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":900.83,"endTime":902.1,"body":"what ableist is."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":902.1,"endTime":905.41,"body":"So I think that we as"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":902.1,"endTime":905.41,"body":"a community need to get better,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":905.41,"endTime":907.39,"body":"not just becoming"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":905.41,"endTime":907.39,"body":"better global citizens,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":907.39,"endTime":910.23,"body":"but equally have"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":907.39,"endTime":910.23,"body":"a more collective response"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":910.23,"endTime":911.5,"body":"to understanding,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":911.5,"endTime":913.71,"body":"do you know what, yes,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":911.5,"endTime":913.71,"body":"it is kind of,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":913.71,"endTime":916.08,"body":"I was going to say"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":913.71,"endTime":916.08,"body":"a bad word there,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":916.08,"endTime":918.86,"body":"it's kind of crappy sometimes"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":916.08,"endTime":918.86,"body":"that we don't get the support"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":918.86,"endTime":920.69,"body":"we don't get"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":918.86,"endTime":920.69,"body":"the acknowledgement."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":920.69,"endTime":923.98,"body":"But do you know what, it's not"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":920.69,"endTime":923.98,"body":"everyone's intent to hurt us,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":923.98,"endTime":926.43,"body":"people just don't know"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":923.98,"endTime":926.43,"body":"because they aren't aware."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":928.75,"endTime":931.04,"body":"I think Debra,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":928.75,"endTime":931.04,"body":"you had a comment,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":931.04,"endTime":932.36,"body":"but I've just got"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":931.04,"endTime":932.36,"body":"one little thing"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":932.36,"endTime":934.61,"body":"I want to get in"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":932.36,"endTime":934.61,"body":"while I don't forget."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":934.61,"endTime":937.01,"body":"Well, why don't you"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":934.61,"endTime":937.01,"body":"go and then I'll go."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":937.52,"endTime":940.37,"body":"So you're talking"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":937.52,"endTime":940.37,"body":"about the word handicapped"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":940.37,"endTime":943.56,"body":"and I remember a thing"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":940.37,"endTime":943.56,"body":"we did years ago"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":943.56,"endTime":946.7,"body":"with one of our guests"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":943.56,"endTime":946.7,"body":"and he said"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":947.29,"endTime":950.28,"body":"and he's in the States"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":947.29,"endTime":950.28,"body":"and he said,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":950.28,"endTime":951.88,"body":"actually I quite like it."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":951.88,"endTime":956.23,"body":"I like the golf analogy,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":951.88,"endTime":956.23,"body":"you know."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":956.23,"endTime":958.79,"body":"Everybody can play golf"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":956.23,"endTime":958.79,"body":"at different skill levels"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":959.6,"endTime":962.62,"body":"on the same course"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":959.6,"endTime":962.62,"body":"and your handicap enables you"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":962.62,"endTime":964.73,"body":"to play with people"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":962.62,"endTime":964.73,"body":"on those levels."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":964.73,"endTime":968.35,"body":"It just acknowledges the fact"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":964.73,"endTime":968.35,"body":"that some people are you know"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":970.06,"endTime":972.02,"body":"are able to do"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":970.06,"endTime":972.02,"body":"different things."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":972.02,"endTime":974.64,"body":"And I thought that was a really"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":972.02,"endTime":974.64,"body":"interesting way of reframing it."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":974.64,"endTime":976.54,"body":"And the other thing is yes,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":974.64,"endTime":976.54,"body":"you're right,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":976.54,"endTime":981.24,"body":"if the word is used,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":976.54,"endTime":981.24,"body":"you know particularly in France,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":981.24,"endTime":983.11,"body":"where I've just spent"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":981.24,"endTime":983.11,"body":"the last few days"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":983.11,"endTime":984.41,"body":"and came here"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":983.11,"endTime":984.41,"body":"from work today,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":984.41,"endTime":992.51,"body":"but what is interesting"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":984.41,"endTime":992.51,"body":"is the each"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":992.51,"endTime":996.23,"body":"with the use of that word,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":992.51,"endTime":996.23,"body":"there is a reframing of it."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":996.23,"endTime":1002.8,"body":"So instead of saying,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":996.23,"endTime":1002.8,"body":"you know handicapped person,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1002.8,"endTime":1005.5,"body":"they are talking about persons"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1002.8,"endTime":1005.5,"body":"on situation handicap."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1006.05,"endTime":1008.87,"body":"So even there,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1006.05,"endTime":1008.87,"body":"there is a reframing."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1010.9,"endTime":1014.02,"body":"And so language is evolving"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1010.9,"endTime":1014.02,"body":"all of the time."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1015.22,"endTime":1019.86,"body":"Yes, I sort of see it written"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1015.22,"endTime":1019.86,"body":"and have been conditioned,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1020.44,"endTime":1024.07,"body":"being in the UK, to think,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1020.44,"endTime":1024.07,"body":"handicap is a bad word"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1026.08,"endTime":1029.0,"body":"and I think that yes,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1026.08,"endTime":1029.0,"body":"we have to open eyes up."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1029.0,"endTime":1031.71,"body":"And one last thing,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1029.0,"endTime":1031.71,"body":"our friend Bianca Prince,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1032.44,"endTime":1037.27,"body":"said she really dislike the term"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1032.44,"endTime":1037.27,"body":"persons of determination,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1038.26,"endTime":1041.08,"body":"which, yes,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1038.26,"endTime":1041.08,"body":"we are all squirming here."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1042.31,"endTime":1043.63,"body":"Well."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1043.63,"endTime":1047.01,"body":"But if you're"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1043.63,"endTime":1047.01,"body":"in the Middle East,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1047.97,"endTime":1049.89,"body":"it's viewed very positively"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1049.89,"endTime":1053.25,"body":"by the community"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1049.89,"endTime":1053.25,"body":"of disabled people."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1053.25,"endTime":1055.24,"body":"By the community, right."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1055.24,"endTime":1058.84,"body":"Or they actually"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1055.24,"endTime":1058.84,"body":"prefer persons of determination."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1059.67,"endTime":1062.82,"body":"And so, yes, it really is"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1059.67,"endTime":1062.82,"body":"those cultural differences"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1062.82,"endTime":1064.06,"body":"and being aware of them"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1064.06,"endTime":1067.33,"body":"and not having a sense"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1064.06,"endTime":1067.33,"body":"of cultural imperialism,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1067.33,"endTime":1074.23,"body":"UK, USA, in terms of imposing"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1067.33,"endTime":1074.23,"body":"our norms on others."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1074.23,"endTime":1077.68,"body":"I think is really important."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1074.23,"endTime":1077.68,"body":"And we need to understand that."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1077.68,"endTime":1081.33,"body":"And sorry, Debra,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1077.68,"endTime":1081.33,"body":"I did totally ride across you."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1081.33,"endTime":1082.6,"body":"No, no."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1082.6,"endTime":1084.79,"body":"Well, but I agree"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1082.6,"endTime":1084.79,"body":"and it's interesting"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1084.79,"endTime":1089.4,"body":"because it just happened to me"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1084.79,"endTime":1089.4,"body":"on one of my posts, Nabil,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1089.4,"endTime":1093.34,"body":"who has done so much work"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1089.4,"endTime":1093.34,"body":"in our field"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1093.34,"endTime":1096.19,"body":"and he does our newsletter"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1093.34,"endTime":1096.19,"body":"and so,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1096.19,"endTime":1098.27,"body":"what he does"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1096.19,"endTime":1098.27,"body":"in the newsletter,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1098.27,"endTime":1105.23,"body":"he'll also do the little"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1098.27,"endTime":1105.23,"body":"introduction of the newsletter"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1106.49,"endTime":1109.31,"body":"for me and you know."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1109.31,"endTime":1117.27,"body":"And so he was using the word,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1109.31,"endTime":1117.27,"body":"he used the term, the autistics."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1118.02,"endTime":1121.66,"body":"Okay, now, the autistics"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1118.02,"endTime":1121.66,"body":"is definitely not a word"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1121.66,"endTime":1122.9,"body":"I would use."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1122.9,"endTime":1126.44,"body":"I would be afraid"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1122.9,"endTime":1126.44,"body":"to use the autistics,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1126.44,"endTime":1129.13,"body":"but it is actually considered"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1126.44,"endTime":1129.13,"body":"in the Arabic language,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1130.09,"endTime":1132.45,"body":"it is not a negative term."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1132.45,"endTime":1138.83,"body":"But my audience, I said,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1132.45,"endTime":1138.83,"body":"one girl I think Cathy Bowers,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1138.83,"endTime":1140.66,"body":"I've actually talked"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1138.83,"endTime":1140.66,"body":"to her about it."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1140.66,"endTime":1144.72,"body":"She put, really, Debra?"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1140.66,"endTime":1144.72,"body":"Come on."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1145.36,"endTime":1147.88,"body":"And so, I saw that,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1145.36,"endTime":1147.88,"body":"I actually saw her note"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1147.88,"endTime":1151.77,"body":"before I realised that"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1147.88,"endTime":1151.77,"body":"I had said the autistics."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1152.37,"endTime":1155.99,"body":"And so, I looked at it"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1152.37,"endTime":1155.99,"body":"and my first impulse,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1155.99,"endTime":1158.83,"body":"being in the United States"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1155.99,"endTime":1158.83,"body":"was to correct it"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1159.35,"endTime":1162.98,"body":"and to go into his work"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1159.35,"endTime":1162.98,"body":"and to correct it."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1162.98,"endTime":1166.02,"body":"And then I was like,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1162.98,"endTime":1166.02,"body":"what are you doing, Debra?"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1166.89,"endTime":1170.68,"body":"His voice matters."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1166.89,"endTime":1170.68,"body":"Even if he's in the Middle East,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1170.68,"endTime":1173.54,"body":"his voice matters as much"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1170.68,"endTime":1173.54,"body":"as your American."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1173.54,"endTime":1176.47,"body":"So I am like yelling, I do"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1173.54,"endTime":1176.47,"body":"this stuff sometimes to myself."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1177.41,"endTime":1181.2,"body":"So then, I thought all right,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1177.41,"endTime":1181.2,"body":"what we are going to have to do,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1181.2,"endTime":1184.7,"body":"we got to talk about it."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1181.2,"endTime":1184.7,"body":"We got to talk about it and so,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1184.7,"endTime":1188.35,"body":"because I don't want"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1184.7,"endTime":1188.35,"body":"to disappoint the audience"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1188.35,"endTime":1191.36,"body":"because this audience"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1188.35,"endTime":1191.36,"body":"is my community, I love them."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1191.36,"endTime":1194.29,"body":"But at the same time"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1191.36,"endTime":1194.29,"body":"we have to be strong enough"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1194.29,"endTime":1196.17,"body":"to be able to have"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1194.29,"endTime":1196.17,"body":"these conversations"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1196.17,"endTime":1197.72,"body":"and people of determination,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1197.72,"endTime":1201.98,"body":"that's a perfect example"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1197.72,"endTime":1201.98,"body":"because I know so,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1202.49,"endTime":1204.39,"body":"and I don't want"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1202.49,"endTime":1204.39,"body":"to speak for the UAE"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1204.39,"endTime":1208.4,"body":"but I've talked to them a lot"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1204.39,"endTime":1208.4,"body":"and what they have said"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1208.4,"endTime":1210.83,"body":"this was a terminology"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1208.4,"endTime":1210.83,"body":"they came up with"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1210.83,"endTime":1213.57,"body":"but to be fair, remember they,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1210.83,"endTime":1213.57,"body":"there are some big"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1213.57,"endTime":1216.65,"body":"‘theys,’ we are talking"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1213.57,"endTime":1216.65,"body":"about here, in all countries."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1218.05,"endTime":1221.81,"body":"So they also were"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1218.05,"endTime":1221.81,"body":"moving forward"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1221.81,"endTime":1225.51,"body":"to bringing the Special Olympics"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1221.81,"endTime":1225.51,"body":"to the UAE at that time."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1225.51,"endTime":1226.86,"body":"They were going to do"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1225.51,"endTime":1226.86,"body":"a big event."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1226.86,"endTime":1230.25,"body":"So most of the community"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1226.86,"endTime":1230.25,"body":"they were making those decisions"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1230.25,"endTime":1231.92,"body":"were actually community members"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1231.92,"endTime":1234.36,"body":"that had"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1231.92,"endTime":1234.36,"body":"intellectual disabilities,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1234.36,"endTime":1236.43,"body":"like my daughter"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1234.36,"endTime":1236.43,"body":"with Down Syndrome."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1236.43,"endTime":1238.84,"body":"Whether or not,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1236.43,"endTime":1238.84,"body":"the people that were blind,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1238.84,"endTime":1241.96,"body":"the people that were,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1238.84,"endTime":1241.96,"body":"the other neurodiverse people,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1241.96,"endTime":1244.92,"body":"people that are deaf,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1241.96,"endTime":1244.92,"body":"all got together and say,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1244.92,"endTime":1247.41,"body":"no, here in the UAE,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1244.92,"endTime":1247.41,"body":"let's use this word."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1248.11,"endTime":1250.78,"body":"So that's also to me interesting"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1248.11,"endTime":1250.78,"body":"because we'll say,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1250.78,"endTime":1254.72,"body":"well they chose to use it."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1250.78,"endTime":1254.72,"body":"But who is they?"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1254.72,"endTime":1256.48,"body":"So I still think"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1254.72,"endTime":1256.48,"body":"we have to have these"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1256.48,"endTime":1260.39,"body":"really dig into conversations."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1256.48,"endTime":1260.39,"body":"What does it mean?"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1260.39,"endTime":1262.26,"body":"How dare you but"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1260.39,"endTime":1262.26,"body":"at the same time"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1262.26,"endTime":1264.37,"body":"we got to be kind"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1262.26,"endTime":1264.37,"body":"as we are walking this."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1264.37,"endTime":1266.73,"body":"Because they have the right"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1264.37,"endTime":1266.73,"body":"to use language"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1266.73,"endTime":1271.13,"body":"that works"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1266.73,"endTime":1271.13,"body":"for their own language."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1271.13,"endTime":1273.54,"body":"Like, and I say"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1271.13,"endTime":1273.54,"body":"one more thing, James,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1273.54,"endTime":1275.24,"body":"one time Antonio says to me,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1276.07,"endTime":1280.0,"body":"totally unfair Antonio,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1276.07,"endTime":1280.0,"body":"okay, you're right, darn it."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1280.64,"endTime":1283.3,"body":"He said to me, I notice"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1280.64,"endTime":1283.3,"body":"Debra everything,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1283.3,"endTime":1285.7,"body":"that some of the brands"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1283.3,"endTime":1285.7,"body":"like Twitter,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1286.66,"endTime":1287.91,"body":"it's all based around the US,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1287.91,"endTime":1289.46,"body":"even though they are"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1287.91,"endTime":1289.46,"body":"supposed to be global,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1289.46,"endTime":1293.71,"body":"all US/US and then Twitter,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1289.46,"endTime":1293.71,"body":"Elon Musk came in"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1293.71,"endTime":1296.15,"body":"and started stomping"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1293.71,"endTime":1296.15,"body":"all over Twitter,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1296.15,"endTime":1301.81,"body":"X whatever and I saw it play out"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1296.15,"endTime":1301.81,"body":"in a way that I had never seen."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1301.81,"endTime":1304.51,"body":"And I was sort of shocked"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1301.81,"endTime":1304.51,"body":"and Antonio was like,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1304.51,"endTime":1306.37,"body":"I have been telling you"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1304.51,"endTime":1306.37,"body":"this Debra."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1306.37,"endTime":1307.63,"body":"But he's right."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1307.63,"endTime":1313.82,"body":"But so much of it is favouritism"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1307.63,"endTime":1313.82,"body":"towards English speaking,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1313.82,"endTime":1315.719,"body":"your first language,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1313.82,"endTime":1315.719,"body":"English speaking."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1316.89,"endTime":1318.31,"body":"And then once again,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1318.31,"endTime":1321.33,"body":"as I'm throwing this all at you"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1318.31,"endTime":1321.33,"body":"is identity matters,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1321.89,"endTime":1324.65,"body":"once again talking about the"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1321.89,"endTime":1324.65,"body":"other intersectionality’s too."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1324.65,"endTime":1327.89,"body":"What if you identify"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1324.65,"endTime":1327.89,"body":"as a man with disabilities"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1327.89,"endTime":1330.65,"body":"and then a man"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1327.89,"endTime":1330.65,"body":"is part of the LGBTQIA?"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1330.65,"endTime":1332.12,"body":"How does that change"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1330.65,"endTime":1332.12,"body":"your language."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1332.12,"endTime":1335.29,"body":"So just throwing complications"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1332.12,"endTime":1335.29,"body":"at these topics."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1335.29,"endTime":1338.0,"body":"But this is what"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1335.29,"endTime":1338.0,"body":"we're all dealing with."},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1338.0,"endTime":1339.24,"body":"100% and I think"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1339.24,"endTime":1340.72,"body":"you can't have"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1339.24,"endTime":1340.72,"body":"these conversations"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1340.72,"endTime":1343.37,"body":"without having a conversation"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1340.72,"endTime":1343.37,"body":"around intersectionality,"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1343.37,"endTime":1346.01,"body":"because it does,"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1343.37,"endTime":1346.01,"body":"it impacts on how you identify."},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1346.01,"endTime":1350.63,"body":"Particularly around words around"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1346.01,"endTime":1350.63,"body":"like queer and things like that,"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1350.63,"endTime":1352.17,"body":"I would have heard"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1350.63,"endTime":1352.17,"body":"those as a young person."},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1352.17,"endTime":1353.7,"body":"And I'd be like, oh my God,"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1352.17,"endTime":1353.7,"body":"don't call me that."},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1353.7,"endTime":1354.96,"body":"When I was younger"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1353.7,"endTime":1354.96,"body":"and I was like,"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1354.96,"endTime":1357.42,"body":"don't say the word disabled,"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1354.96,"endTime":1357.42,"body":"because it's terrible."},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1357.42,"endTime":1359.85,"body":"I have now rephrased the word"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1357.42,"endTime":1359.85,"body":"and I will use the word queer"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1359.85,"endTime":1362.13,"body":"and I will use the word"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1359.85,"endTime":1362.13,"body":"disabled because again,"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1362.13,"endTime":1365.14,"body":"it's not a bad word"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1362.13,"endTime":1365.14,"body":"and it's about the context."},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1365.14,"endTime":1368.06,"body":"It's how we it's learned"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1365.14,"endTime":1368.06,"body":"around this."},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1368.06,"endTime":1369.62,"body":"You hear people say,"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1368.06,"endTime":1369.62,"body":"you should not say that,"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1369.62,"endTime":1370.92,"body":"and I'm not going to say that."},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1370.92,"endTime":1372.79,"body":"But we also have"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1370.92,"endTime":1372.79,"body":"lateral ableism,"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1372.79,"endTime":1374.99,"body":"or I prefer to call"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1372.79,"endTime":1374.99,"body":"protracted ableism"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1374.99,"endTime":1377.38,"body":"where disabled people are"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1374.99,"endTime":1377.38,"body":"telling disabled people well,"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1377.38,"endTime":1379.48,"body":"you should not say this,"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1377.38,"endTime":1379.48,"body":"and you should not say that,"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1379.48,"endTime":1381.39,"body":"but we don't think"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1379.48,"endTime":1381.39,"body":"of the context."},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1381.39,"endTime":1384.34,"body":"And I think this is why we see"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1381.39,"endTime":1384.34,"body":"so much reluctance at times,"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1385.18,"endTime":1387.32,"body":"in this space and companies"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1385.18,"endTime":1387.32,"body":"because they are like,"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1387.32,"endTime":1388.63,"body":"well this does not seem right."},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1388.63,"endTime":1390.07,"body":"This seems like,"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1388.63,"endTime":1390.07,"body":"if you can't get together"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1390.07,"endTime":1391.31,"body":"and form an opinion,"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1391.31,"endTime":1393.18,"body":"we are just going to come in"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1391.31,"endTime":1393.18,"body":"and trample all over it"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1393.18,"endTime":1397.49,"body":"and you're going to eat us up"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1393.18,"endTime":1397.49,"body":"and spit them out online."},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1398.67,"endTime":1400.31,"body":"I always love"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1398.67,"endTime":1400.31,"body":"what Meryl Adams said,"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1400.31,"endTime":1402.45,"body":"it's that progress"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1400.31,"endTime":1402.45,"body":"over perfectionism."},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1402.45,"endTime":1405.47,"body":"We have to look"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1402.45,"endTime":1405.47,"body":"at the progress as yes,"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1405.47,"endTime":1406.74,"body":"it's not perfect right now"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1406.74,"endTime":1409.06,"body":"but are we ever going to"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1406.74,"endTime":1409.06,"body":"get to a perfect place"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1409.06,"endTime":1411.36,"body":"because with accessibility"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1409.06,"endTime":1411.36,"body":"or inclusion"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1411.36,"endTime":1413.98,"body":"is about continuous improvement."},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1411.36,"endTime":1413.98,"body":"It is not about the end goal."},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1413.98,"endTime":1417.29,"body":"It's about, how do we get to a"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1413.98,"endTime":1417.29,"body":"point where everyone is included"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1417.29,"endTime":1419.31,"body":"but how do we continuously"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1417.29,"endTime":1419.31,"body":"improve in that."},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1419.31,"endTime":1421.19,"body":"So, it's continuous"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1419.31,"endTime":1421.19,"body":"improvement I think"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1421.19,"endTime":1423.58,"body":"and always I think understanding"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1421.19,"endTime":1423.58,"body":"with empathy"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1423.58,"endTime":1424.87,"body":"and leading with empathy"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1424.87,"endTime":1427.23,"body":"because a pure disabled person"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1424.87,"endTime":1427.23,"body":"being told by another,"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1427.23,"endTime":1428.45,"body":"a person with a disability,"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1428.45,"endTime":1430.51,"body":"a person of determination,"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1428.45,"endTime":1430.51,"body":"whatever they are using"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1430.51,"endTime":1432.07,"body":"and this is the angle"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1430.51,"endTime":1432.07,"body":"you're taking to go"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1432.07,"endTime":1435.42,"body":"at somebody else who has their"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1432.07,"endTime":1435.42,"body":"own lived experience and like,"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1435.42,"endTime":1437.91,"body":"do we not have better things"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1435.42,"endTime":1437.91,"body":"to be abdicating for"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1437.91,"endTime":1440.81,"body":"without ripping each other apart"},{"speaker":"MS O'NEILL","startTime":1437.91,"endTime":1440.81,"body":"for a choice of language."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1442.43,"endTime":1443.63,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1443.63,"endTime":1444.85,"body":"So true."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1444.85,"endTime":1446.86,"body":"100%."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1446.86,"endTime":1453.94,"body":"I mean I spent quite some time"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1446.86,"endTime":1453.94,"body":"doing similar things to you,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1453.94,"endTime":1456.67,"body":"in terms of posting,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1453.94,"endTime":1456.67,"body":"you know, doing posts"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1456.67,"endTime":1460.72,"body":"that would hopefully"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1456.67,"endTime":1460.72,"body":"make people stop and think."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1461.26,"endTime":1465.36,"body":"And one of the most"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1461.26,"endTime":1465.36,"body":"popular ones that I had was one"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1465.36,"endTime":1468.22,"body":"that actually said you know"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1465.36,"endTime":1468.22,"body":"worry less about the language"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1468.96,"endTime":1470.85,"body":"people use"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1468.96,"endTime":1470.85,"body":"and more about their actions."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1470.85,"endTime":1472.64,"body":"We should be judging people"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1470.85,"endTime":1472.64,"body":"on their actions"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1472.64,"endTime":1477.49,"body":"and their attitudes because"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1472.64,"endTime":1477.49,"body":"and on their intent"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1477.49,"endTime":1480.03,"body":"because as you say,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1477.49,"endTime":1480.03,"body":"you can feel the intent."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1480.03,"endTime":1481.43,"body":"Even if people using words"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1481.43,"endTime":1483.07,"body":"that you're not necessarily"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1481.43,"endTime":1483.07,"body":"comfortable with."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1483.07,"endTime":1484.69,"body":"If they are doing it"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1483.07,"endTime":1484.69,"body":"in a well-meaning way."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1484.69,"endTime":1487.68,"body":"We should not go in there"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1484.69,"endTime":1487.68,"body":"and bludgeoning them."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1488.78,"endTime":1493.21,"body":"Just because they have"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1488.78,"endTime":1493.21,"body":"inadvertently used a word"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1493.21,"endTime":1494.56,"body":"you don't like"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1494.56,"endTime":1496.66,"body":"but that might be"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1494.56,"endTime":1496.66,"body":"socially acceptable"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1498.24,"endTime":1502.18,"body":"in the social context"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1498.24,"endTime":1502.18,"body":"that they use."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1503.29,"endTime":1505.36,"body":"Yes, I love to"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1503.29,"endTime":1505.36,"body":"throw something at you,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1505.36,"endTime":1509.11,"body":"Jamie in that, I talked"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1505.36,"endTime":1509.11,"body":"about this On Air before,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1509.11,"endTime":1511.2,"body":"apologies for repeating"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1509.11,"endTime":1511.2,"body":"my stories,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1512.21,"endTime":1514.18,"body":"one time I did a post,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1515.55,"endTime":1518.07,"body":"because here in the Virginia"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1515.55,"endTime":1518.07,"body":"where I live,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1518.07,"endTime":1521.42,"body":"our governor had done"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1518.07,"endTime":1521.42,"body":"a new legislation"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1521.42,"endTime":1524.82,"body":"that said that employers"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1521.42,"endTime":1524.82,"body":"were not allowed to discriminate"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1524.82,"endTime":1528.1,"body":"against women's hairstyles"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1528.1,"endTime":1530.45,"body":"and I believe it"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1528.1,"endTime":1530.45,"body":"specifically said,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1531.44,"endTime":1533.56,"body":"I think it referred"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1531.44,"endTime":1533.56,"body":"to black women."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1533.56,"endTime":1535.35,"body":"I forget how they said it,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1535.35,"endTime":1538.92,"body":"but you're not allowed"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1535.35,"endTime":1538.92,"body":"to discriminate against a woman"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1538.92,"endTime":1542.19,"body":"because of her hairstyle"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1538.92,"endTime":1542.19,"body":"and I remember thinking what?"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1542.9,"endTime":1547.15,"body":"Wait, are we discriminating"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1542.9,"endTime":1547.15,"body":"against I mean I was surprised"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1547.15,"endTime":1549.94,"body":"and so I said something,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1547.15,"endTime":1549.94,"body":"I posted it"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1549.94,"endTime":1553.82,"body":"and I said, I'm surprised"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1549.94,"endTime":1553.82,"body":"at the way we find,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1554.34,"endTime":1557.49,"body":"to the creative ways that we"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1554.34,"endTime":1557.49,"body":"discriminate against each other."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1558.15,"endTime":1561.76,"body":"I was just really"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1558.15,"endTime":1561.76,"body":"and this black woman"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1561.76,"endTime":1563.84,"body":"in the United States"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1561.76,"endTime":1563.84,"body":"attacked me"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1563.84,"endTime":1566.74,"body":"and she said, well that's"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1563.84,"endTime":1566.74,"body":"because you just didn't"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1566.74,"endTime":1568.95,"body":"if you had taken the time"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1566.74,"endTime":1568.95,"body":"and she went after me"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1568.95,"endTime":1572.21,"body":"and I remember"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1568.95,"endTime":1572.21,"body":"being discouraged"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1572.21,"endTime":1575.25,"body":"that she did that"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1572.21,"endTime":1575.25,"body":"but more than anything,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1575.25,"endTime":1577.35,"body":"I hated it"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1575.25,"endTime":1577.35,"body":"because we had started"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1577.35,"endTime":1580.41,"body":"to have this conversation,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1577.35,"endTime":1580.41,"body":"multiple people were engaging,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1580.41,"endTime":1582.58,"body":"she came in"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1580.41,"endTime":1582.58,"body":"and said that and it stopped."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1583.19,"endTime":1584.77,"body":"Everybody stopped talking"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1584.77,"endTime":1586.53,"body":"and that to me"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1584.77,"endTime":1586.53,"body":"I thought was sad."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1586.53,"endTime":1589.38,"body":"Because even if you don't like"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1586.53,"endTime":1589.38,"body":"what somebody says,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1589.38,"endTime":1593.24,"body":"can we have a conversation"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1589.38,"endTime":1593.24,"body":"so we all can learn from it."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1593.24,"endTime":1595.01,"body":"And that is one"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1593.24,"endTime":1595.01,"body":"I always admired"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1595.01,"endTime":1596.83,"body":"about the work"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1595.01,"endTime":1596.83,"body":"that you are doing,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1596.83,"endTime":1600.19,"body":"Jamie because I can say"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1596.83,"endTime":1600.19,"body":"something that you disagree with"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1600.19,"endTime":1603.18,"body":"but instead of like, chopping me"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1600.19,"endTime":1603.18,"body":"up into little pieces"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1603.18,"endTime":1604.93,"body":"and throwing me away,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1604.93,"endTime":1607.83,"body":"maybe there's an opportunity"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1604.93,"endTime":1607.83,"body":"to learn from each other here"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1608.55,"endTime":1612.64,"body":"because these, once again,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1608.55,"endTime":1612.64,"body":"these bad corporate brands"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1612.64,"endTime":1615.6,"body":"are actually really"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1612.64,"endTime":1615.6,"body":"trying to include us."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1615.6,"endTime":1617.24,"body":"They are trying"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1615.6,"endTime":1617.24,"body":"to be accessible."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1617.24,"endTime":1618.84,"body":"They are trying."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1619.49,"endTime":1622.3,"body":"But I also understand people"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1619.49,"endTime":1622.3,"body":"get sick of waiting."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1622.3,"endTime":1624.57,"body":"But I just wanted."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1622.3,"endTime":1624.57,"body":"How do we make sure"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1625.17,"endTime":1628.46,"body":"we don't stop the conversation"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1625.17,"endTime":1628.46,"body":"dead in its tracks,"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1628.46,"endTime":1632.21,"body":"and we still can be able"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1628.46,"endTime":1632.21,"body":"to have some conversations"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1632.21,"endTime":1634.43,"body":"about this to learn"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1632.21,"endTime":1634.43,"body":"from each other."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1634.43,"endTime":1636.28,"body":"So, I tagged into one"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1634.43,"endTime":1636.28,"body":"of the biggest worries,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1636.28,"endTime":1637.57,"body":"at the moment,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1636.28,"endTime":1637.57,"body":"in this space"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1637.57,"endTime":1641.91,"body":"because I think"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1637.57,"endTime":1641.91,"body":"the DI spaces or EDI or JEDI,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1641.91,"endTime":1643.95,"body":"is my personal favourite"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1641.91,"endTime":1643.95,"body":"because Star Wars"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1643.95,"endTime":1645.59,"body":"because whatever"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1643.95,"endTime":1645.59,"body":"you're calling the space,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1645.59,"endTime":1648.4,"body":"we know that disability"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1645.59,"endTime":1648.4,"body":"is part of the conversation,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1648.4,"endTime":1650.08,"body":"but it's only now started"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1648.4,"endTime":1650.08,"body":"to be actually included."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1650.08,"endTime":1651.47,"body":"We have only seen it"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1650.08,"endTime":1651.47,"body":"in the last few years"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1651.47,"endTime":1653.67,"body":"we've seen it actually"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1651.47,"endTime":1653.67,"body":"brought to the table."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1654.26,"endTime":1655.94,"body":"Accessibility is not an add on."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1655.94,"endTime":1657.72,"body":"It's actually stuff"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1655.94,"endTime":1657.72,"body":"that helps disabled people."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1657.72,"endTime":1658.94,"body":"So we are seeing that shift."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1658.94,"endTime":1661.91,"body":"But also we are seeing"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1658.94,"endTime":1661.91,"body":"the shift towards DEI must die"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1661.91,"endTime":1663.98,"body":"and it was actually Elon Musk"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1661.91,"endTime":1663.98,"body":"who did the post about it,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1663.98,"endTime":1666.12,"body":"the Tweet about it"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1663.98,"endTime":1666.12,"body":"and seeing the post,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1666.12,"endTime":1667.72,"body":"it's because of people's"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1666.12,"endTime":1667.72,"body":"reactions,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1667.72,"endTime":1670.24,"body":"it's because that people"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1667.72,"endTime":1670.24,"body":"take to the point where,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1670.24,"endTime":1671.5,"body":"if you say the wrong thing,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1671.5,"endTime":1672.91,"body":"people are afraid"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1671.5,"endTime":1672.91,"body":"to say the wrong thing."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1672.91,"endTime":1674.52,"body":"They don't want"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1672.91,"endTime":1674.52,"body":"to get involved."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1674.52,"endTime":1676.55,"body":"They don't want to support"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1674.52,"endTime":1676.55,"body":"these initiatives."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1676.55,"endTime":1680.05,"body":"Again, it comes back"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1676.55,"endTime":1680.05,"body":"to that intent."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1680.05,"endTime":1682.9,"body":"Because for me,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1680.05,"endTime":1682.9,"body":"I had a disagreement"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1682.9,"endTime":1684.49,"body":"with somebody online,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1682.9,"endTime":1684.49,"body":"but it doesn't mean"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1684.49,"endTime":1686.05,"body":"I am going to hate this person"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1684.49,"endTime":1686.05,"body":"or shun this person,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1686.05,"endTime":1687.27,"body":"or I am going to shun them"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1686.05,"endTime":1687.27,"body":"or block them."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1687.27,"endTime":1688.48,"body":"Like I'll only block them"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1688.48,"endTime":1689.74,"body":"if they are personally"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1688.48,"endTime":1689.74,"body":"attacking me,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1689.74,"endTime":1691.0,"body":"and I am going"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1689.74,"endTime":1691.0,"body":"let's stop this."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1691.0,"endTime":1692.97,"body":"I got a message there yesterday,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1691.0,"endTime":1692.97,"body":"for example,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1692.97,"endTime":1694.72,"body":"and the person was like,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1692.97,"endTime":1694.72,"body":"we disagreed online,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1694.72,"endTime":1696.03,"body":"I'd love to get a call"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1694.72,"endTime":1696.03,"body":"and discuss,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1696.03,"endTime":1697.57,"body":"and I was like, listen,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1696.03,"endTime":1697.57,"body":"if I had a call"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1697.57,"endTime":1698.98,"body":"with everybody"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1697.57,"endTime":1698.98,"body":"I disagreed with online,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1698.98,"endTime":1701.79,"body":"I would be getting no work done"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1698.98,"endTime":1701.79,"body":"and I would be still busy."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1701.79,"endTime":1703.95,"body":"We wouldn't need to"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1701.79,"endTime":1703.95,"body":"because I know your intent"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1703.95,"endTime":1706.61,"body":"was not to have the thing,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1703.95,"endTime":1706.61,"body":"we are learning from each other."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1706.61,"endTime":1708.0,"body":"But it was come"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1706.61,"endTime":1708.0,"body":"from that place"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1708.0,"endTime":1709.72,"body":"where people should have"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1708.0,"endTime":1709.72,"body":"empathy at all times"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1709.72,"endTime":1713.48,"body":"because people don't know and I"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1709.72,"endTime":1713.48,"body":"always bring back to basics,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1713.48,"endTime":1714.91,"body":"if I think about"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1713.48,"endTime":1714.91,"body":"my education,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1714.91,"endTime":1716.62,"body":"I was never thought"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1714.91,"endTime":1716.62,"body":"about racism."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1716.62,"endTime":1718.69,"body":"Growing up I was never"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1716.62,"endTime":1718.69,"body":"taught about sexism."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1718.69,"endTime":1720.27,"body":"I learned about those"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1718.69,"endTime":1720.27,"body":"through societies."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1720.27,"endTime":1721.53,"body":"I learned those"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1720.27,"endTime":1721.53,"body":"through workplaces,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1721.53,"endTime":1723.09,"body":"the training we got"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1721.53,"endTime":1723.09,"body":"in workplaces."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1723.09,"endTime":1725.22,"body":"Ableism, we are still not"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1723.09,"endTime":1725.22,"body":"quite a way there yet"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1725.22,"endTime":1727.09,"body":"because workplaces"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1725.22,"endTime":1727.09,"body":"don't actually get about it"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1727.09,"endTime":1731.42,"body":"or disability training typically"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1727.09,"endTime":1731.42,"body":"comes from that risk factor,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1731.42,"endTime":1733.31,"body":"oh, if you don't hire them,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1731.42,"endTime":1733.31,"body":"we are going to get in trouble"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1733.31,"endTime":1735.57,"body":"or if we don't get adjustments,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1733.31,"endTime":1735.57,"body":"we are going to get in trouble."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1735.57,"endTime":1736.78,"body":"It's always the risk."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1736.78,"endTime":1738.45,"body":"Whereas when we look"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1736.78,"endTime":1738.45,"body":"at disability"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1738.45,"endTime":1740.07,"body":"through the ableism lens"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1738.45,"endTime":1740.07,"body":"and educate"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1740.07,"endTime":1743.13,"body":"through that we are"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1740.07,"endTime":1743.13,"body":"really focusing on the person."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1743.13,"endTime":1745.1,"body":"We are focusing"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1743.13,"endTime":1745.1,"body":"on that social model."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1745.1,"endTime":1747.57,"body":"I always think that"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1745.1,"endTime":1747.57,"body":"it's actually these barriers"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1747.57,"endTime":1749.72,"body":"and these attitudes that"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1747.57,"endTime":1749.72,"body":"are disabling these people"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1749.72,"endTime":1751.94,"body":"because when we see them back"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1749.72,"endTime":1751.94,"body":"to what we said earlier,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1751.94,"endTime":1753.73,"body":"as individuals and abilities,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1754.35,"endTime":1758.68,"body":"we wouldn't be tip toeing around"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1754.35,"endTime":1758.68,"body":"and thinking, we can't do this."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1758.68,"endTime":1760.4,"body":"So always think"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1758.68,"endTime":1760.4,"body":"about the intent."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1760.4,"endTime":1761.64,"body":"Think about the intent."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1761.64,"endTime":1764.05,"body":"If you aren't sure what the"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1761.64,"endTime":1764.05,"body":"person's intent is, ask them."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1764.05,"endTime":1765.74,"body":"Sorry, this sounds"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1764.05,"endTime":1765.74,"body":"this way to me."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1765.74,"endTime":1768.74,"body":"Did you mean this way"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1765.74,"endTime":1768.74,"body":"or can you explain this again."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1768.74,"endTime":1770.33,"body":"Because likelihood is,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1770.33,"endTime":1772.35,"body":"they don't know this as much"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1770.33,"endTime":1772.35,"body":"as you did at one point"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1772.35,"endTime":1774.92,"body":"and if we are all going to jump"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1772.35,"endTime":1774.92,"body":"at each other for not knowing,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1774.92,"endTime":1776.52,"body":"we will be very busy."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1778.14,"endTime":1779.74,"body":"Very busy."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1781.63,"endTime":1784.88,"body":"Well, in the kind"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1781.63,"endTime":1784.88,"body":"of a joking a little bit"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1784.88,"endTime":1789.23,"body":"and bringing some humour"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1784.88,"endTime":1789.23,"body":"to this, I think we are all,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1790.03,"endTime":1796.01,"body":"we all know that in some"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1790.03,"endTime":1796.01,"body":"appliances that we have at home,"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1797.03,"endTime":1803.93,"body":"they have a scale about"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1797.03,"endTime":1803.93,"body":"the energy consumption. Okay?"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1805.1,"endTime":1807.59,"body":"So that just imagine"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1805.1,"endTime":1807.59,"body":"that you would apply"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1807.59,"endTime":1813.27,"body":"that to disability, okay?"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1807.59,"endTime":1813.27,"body":"From A, B, C, D, E."},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1813.92,"endTime":1819.5,"body":"Do you think it would be fair to"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1813.92,"endTime":1819.5,"body":"for us"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1819.5,"endTime":1821.81,"body":"to have conversations"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1819.5,"endTime":1821.81,"body":"on disability with people"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1821.81,"endTime":1825.39,"body":"based on the kind of the scale"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1821.81,"endTime":1825.39,"body":"of their disability"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1825.39,"endTime":1828.88,"body":"as similar"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1825.39,"endTime":1828.88,"body":"to the scale of energy?"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1828.88,"endTime":1832.96,"body":"How energy efficient"},{"speaker":"ANTONIO","startTime":1828.88,"endTime":1832.96,"body":"is an appliance?"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1836.12,"endTime":1838.469,"body":"I would not,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1836.12,"endTime":1838.469,"body":"I would not do it that way."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1839.35,"endTime":1843.16,"body":"I know you're joking about it,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1839.35,"endTime":1843.16,"body":"but I think companies"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1843.16,"endTime":1845.209,"body":"never treat us"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1843.16,"endTime":1845.209,"body":"like a thermostat, please."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1847.61,"endTime":1850.23,"body":"But when you play with"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1847.61,"endTime":1850.23,"body":"a thermostat you get turned on."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1850.23,"endTime":1852.29,"body":"Sorry."},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":1852.29,"endTime":1853.51,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1853.51,"endTime":1855.14,"body":"A good one."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1855.14,"endTime":1857.4,"body":"But I think if we,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1855.14,"endTime":1857.4,"body":"think about it,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1857.4,"endTime":1858.87,"body":"this is the thing"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1857.4,"endTime":1858.87,"body":"about disability"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1858.87,"endTime":1862.15,"body":"and I think this is where"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1858.87,"endTime":1862.15,"body":"we are advocates,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1862.15,"endTime":1864.64,"body":"a lot of advocates"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1862.15,"endTime":1864.64,"body":"don't even know what ableism is."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1864.64,"endTime":1867.33,"body":"We don't know what"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1864.64,"endTime":1867.33,"body":"the lived experience is."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1867.33,"endTime":1869.44,"body":"I can't say,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1867.33,"endTime":1869.44,"body":"I'm expert at disability"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1869.44,"endTime":1872.07,"body":"because I never will be."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1869.44,"endTime":1872.07,"body":"I am an expert of my experience"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1872.07,"endTime":1874.03,"body":"of what it is like"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1872.07,"endTime":1874.03,"body":"to be registered blind."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1874.03,"endTime":1875.98,"body":"But I am not an expert"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1874.03,"endTime":1875.98,"body":"of being registered blind"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1875.98,"endTime":1877.84,"body":"because I don't know"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1875.98,"endTime":1877.84,"body":"what every experience of that is"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1877.84,"endTime":1879.17,"body":"and what that feels like."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1879.17,"endTime":1881.06,"body":"So I always say"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1879.17,"endTime":1881.06,"body":"that disability is diverse,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1881.06,"endTime":1882.49,"body":"and you know,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1881.06,"endTime":1882.49,"body":"there's no one size fits all."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1882.49,"endTime":1883.94,"body":"There is no one appearance"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1883.94,"endTime":1886.79,"body":"and you're going to have so many"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1883.94,"endTime":1886.79,"body":"different answers to you."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1886.79,"endTime":1889.03,"body":"And trying to work out"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1886.79,"endTime":1889.03,"body":"how to take those answers"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1889.03,"endTime":1890.63,"body":"and correlate it"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1889.03,"endTime":1890.63,"body":"to what you are doing."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1890.63,"endTime":1893.22,"body":"It is always I always say"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1890.63,"endTime":1893.22,"body":"where your market is."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1893.22,"endTime":1895.38,"body":"If you're working in the UK,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1893.22,"endTime":1895.38,"body":"use the language there."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1895.38,"endTime":1896.59,"body":"If you are working in the US,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1896.59,"endTime":1897.89,"body":"use the language"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1896.59,"endTime":1897.89,"body":"most frequent to them"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1897.89,"endTime":1899.95,"body":"if you are working in Asia,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1897.89,"endTime":1899.95,"body":"use that language."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1899.95,"endTime":1901.27,"body":"If you are"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1899.95,"endTime":1901.27,"body":"an international company,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1901.27,"endTime":1903.35,"body":"like that is there"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1901.27,"endTime":1903.35,"body":"full time for,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1903.35,"endTime":1906.04,"body":"you can't have a global"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1903.35,"endTime":1906.04,"body":"disability policy,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1906.04,"endTime":1908.86,"body":"it doesn't work, you need"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1906.04,"endTime":1908.86,"body":"to have those regional policies"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1908.86,"endTime":1911.71,"body":"which then filter in together"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1908.86,"endTime":1911.71,"body":"to help you get that sense"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1911.71,"endTime":1914.64,"body":"of belonging, that inclusion"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1911.71,"endTime":1914.64,"body":"and stuff like that."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1914.64,"endTime":1917.16,"body":"But I think it is,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1914.64,"endTime":1917.16,"body":"we have to until"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1917.16,"endTime":1919.44,"body":"we get the point of disability"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1917.16,"endTime":1919.44,"body":"where we have"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1919.44,"endTime":1922.22,"body":"this global collective"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1919.44,"endTime":1922.22,"body":"kind of understanding."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1922.22,"endTime":1924.21,"body":"We have to treat it"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1922.22,"endTime":1924.21,"body":"at a regional level,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1924.21,"endTime":1925.85,"body":"and we can't be treated"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1924.21,"endTime":1925.85,"body":"like a thermostat"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1925.85,"endTime":1927.63,"body":"because not all of us"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1925.85,"endTime":1927.63,"body":"want to be turn on."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":1927.63,"endTime":1929.23,"body":"It's very cold here."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1929.93,"endTime":1931.75,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1931.75,"endTime":1934.93,"body":"Just, before we finish"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1931.75,"endTime":1934.93,"body":"I mean I think there was also"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1934.93,"endTime":1939.65,"body":"some other you know nuances"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1934.93,"endTime":1939.65,"body":"in what Antonio was saying"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1939.65,"endTime":1943.81,"body":"because we all,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1939.65,"endTime":1943.81,"body":"in certain countries,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1943.81,"endTime":1945.62,"body":"there are different"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1943.81,"endTime":1945.62,"body":"classifications of severity"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1945.62,"endTime":1947.34,"body":"of disability"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1945.62,"endTime":1947.34,"body":"and is that like,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1948.75,"endTime":1952.76,"body":"and benefits are attached"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1948.75,"endTime":1952.76,"body":"to it and job prospects"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1952.76,"endTime":1955.83,"body":"and how you're treated"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1952.76,"endTime":1955.83,"body":"by society and employers"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1955.83,"endTime":1958.6,"body":"are all effected"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1955.83,"endTime":1958.6,"body":"by whether or not"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1958.6,"endTime":1961.25,"body":"you're Triple A"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1958.6,"endTime":1961.25,"body":"plus energy efficient"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1961.25,"endTime":1969.12,"body":"or you're down in the red E's"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1961.25,"endTime":1969.12,"body":"of the energy ratings"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1969.87,"endTime":1973.54,"body":"but in all seriousness,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1969.87,"endTime":1973.54,"body":"it's also somewhat"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1973.54,"endTime":1977.14,"body":"of the hierarchy"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1973.54,"endTime":1977.14,"body":"of different disability types,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1977.14,"endTime":1979.31,"body":"where some disabilities"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1977.14,"endTime":1979.31,"body":"seem to be treated"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1979.88,"endTime":1981.92,"body":"much more seriously"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1979.88,"endTime":1981.92,"body":"than others."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1981.92,"endTime":1985.45,"body":"And now a lot of that"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1981.92,"endTime":1985.45,"body":"is down to the fact"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1985.45,"endTime":1989.51,"body":"that some disabilities"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1985.45,"endTime":1989.51,"body":"are pretty obvious, you know."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1989.51,"endTime":1992.41,"body":"If you're a wheelchair user,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1992.93,"endTime":1996.52,"body":"it's obvious that"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1992.93,"endTime":1996.52,"body":"you have certain needs."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1996.52,"endTime":2000.78,"body":"If you're blind to the point"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":1996.52,"endTime":2000.78,"body":"where you need a stick"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2000.78,"endTime":2004.99,"body":"to navigate around"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2000.78,"endTime":2004.99,"body":"or a guide dog, it's obvious."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2005.81,"endTime":2009.77,"body":"People can understand it."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2005.81,"endTime":2009.77,"body":"But when it's, when you know,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2009.77,"endTime":2011.24,"body":"maybe you have"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2009.77,"endTime":2011.24,"body":"a vision impairment"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2011.24,"endTime":2013.55,"body":"but you don't need"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2011.24,"endTime":2013.55,"body":"that or glasses,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2014.82,"endTime":2018.64,"body":"it's hidden, like with many of"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2014.82,"endTime":2018.64,"body":"the neuro divergent conditions"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2018.64,"endTime":2021.52,"body":"and Debra was saying"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2018.64,"endTime":2021.52,"body":"before we came On Air"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2021.52,"endTime":2024.27,"body":"and I've sometimes too,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2024.27,"endTime":2026.52,"body":"sometimes I don't feel"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2024.27,"endTime":2026.52,"body":"disabled enough."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2026.52,"endTime":2029.47,"body":"Should I be commenting?"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2026.52,"endTime":2029.47,"body":"Is it valid for me?"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2029.99,"endTime":2034.51,"body":"But actually, yes,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2029.99,"endTime":2034.51,"body":"our experiences are valid,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2034.51,"endTime":2036.18,"body":"the barriers are valid,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2036.18,"endTime":2038.89,"body":"and we should not"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2036.18,"endTime":2038.89,"body":"necessarily face a hierarchy."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2038.89,"endTime":2042.0,"body":"So I don't know whether"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2038.89,"endTime":2042.0,"body":"you have got one last comment"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2042.0,"endTime":2043.32,"body":"before we close."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2043.32,"endTime":2045.45,"body":"Yes, and I love"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2043.32,"endTime":2045.45,"body":"that you mentioned that,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2045.45,"endTime":2046.99,"body":"am I disabled enough?"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2046.99,"endTime":2050.08,"body":"Because I thought I always ask"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2046.99,"endTime":2050.08,"body":"myself, am I disabled enough?"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2050.08,"endTime":2051.58,"body":"I know you can't see me"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2050.08,"endTime":2051.58,"body":"sitting down"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2051.58,"endTime":2052.86,"body":"because my belly"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2051.58,"endTime":2052.86,"body":"is below the camera"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2052.86,"endTime":2054.12,"body":"but I always say to people,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2054.12,"endTime":2056.65,"body":"I don't use a guide dog,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2054.12,"endTime":2056.65,"body":"I don't use a cane,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2056.65,"endTime":2058.25,"body":"I have a partner"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2056.65,"endTime":2058.25,"body":"who is very good"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2058.25,"endTime":2059.97,"body":"at pointing out"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2058.25,"endTime":2059.97,"body":"it's not a path"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2059.97,"endTime":2063.1,"body":"or a person walking towards me,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2059.97,"endTime":2063.1,"body":"who guides me."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2063.1,"endTime":2067.05,"body":"But I'm coming towards somebody,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2063.1,"endTime":2067.05,"body":"if I come towards you"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2067.05,"endTime":2068.96,"body":"and if I am coming towards you"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2067.05,"endTime":2068.96,"body":"and then say,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2068.96,"endTime":2070.85,"body":"on, I can't see this,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2068.96,"endTime":2070.85,"body":"can you help me."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2070.85,"endTime":2072.13,"body":"It can intimidate someone,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2072.13,"endTime":2074.67,"body":"because the see"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2072.13,"endTime":2074.67,"body":"this big strapping,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2074.67,"endTime":2078.26,"body":"I don't mean really good"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2074.67,"endTime":2078.26,"body":"looking, but I'm a big guy."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2078.26,"endTime":2080.6,"body":"Do you know what I mean?"},{"speaker":"DEBRA","startTime":2080.6,"endTime":2083.13,"body":"A big good-looking guy."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2083.13,"endTime":2084.79,"body":"I'll take that."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2084.79,"endTime":2086.83,"body":"And they look at me"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2084.79,"endTime":2086.83,"body":"and they see the disability"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2086.83,"endTime":2088.36,"body":"but what they don't see"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2086.83,"endTime":2088.36,"body":"is actually"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2088.36,"endTime":2090.99,"body":"that everything is around me"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2088.36,"endTime":2090.99,"body":"is like a cloud of fog"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2090.99,"endTime":2092.43,"body":"and I am walking through"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2090.99,"endTime":2092.43,"body":"this cloud of fog,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2092.43,"endTime":2095.86,"body":"and I am also ADHD and autistic"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2092.43,"endTime":2095.86,"body":"and my brain is going,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2096.82,"endTime":2099.36,"body":"don't ask this person"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2096.82,"endTime":2099.36,"body":"and my other part of my brain"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2099.36,"endTime":2101.58,"body":"is should we ask this person"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2099.36,"endTime":2101.58,"body":"about their life story,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2101.58,"endTime":2102.78,"body":"I wonder where they are from,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2102.78,"endTime":2104.77,"body":"and I am getting all"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2102.78,"endTime":2104.77,"body":"these different things"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2104.77,"endTime":2106.68,"body":"but you don't see that"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2104.77,"endTime":2106.68,"body":"on the surface"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2106.68,"endTime":2109.67,"body":"and we have companies"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2106.68,"endTime":2109.67,"body":"that have tried to help us"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2109.67,"endTime":2111.94,"body":"became more visible"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2109.67,"endTime":2111.94,"body":"about our disabilities,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2111.94,"endTime":2114.35,"body":"like Lanier’s we wear"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2111.94,"endTime":2114.35,"body":"around our neck or badges"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2114.35,"endTime":2115.86,"body":"and I think,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2114.35,"endTime":2115.86,"body":"well that's well and good,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2115.86,"endTime":2117.1,"body":"unless you're registered blind"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2117.1,"endTime":2118.72,"body":"and there's no way of knowing"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2117.1,"endTime":2118.72,"body":"who is disabled."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2118.72,"endTime":2119.96,"body":"There is no way for us to know."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2119.96,"endTime":2122.009,"body":"Unless we go up"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2119.96,"endTime":2122.009,"body":"to feel people's lanyards"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2122.57,"endTime":2124.03,"body":"and that's being not felt up."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2124.03,"endTime":2125.53,"body":"But I think for me,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2125.53,"endTime":2128.06,"body":"it's very much"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2125.53,"endTime":2128.06,"body":"that is where ableism comes,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2129.08,"endTime":2130.85,"body":"I think we get so caught up"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2129.08,"endTime":2130.85,"body":"in the language"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2130.85,"endTime":2134.51,"body":"that we don't think about"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2130.85,"endTime":2134.51,"body":"the assumptions and beliefs"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2134.51,"endTime":2136.53,"body":"and you have"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2134.51,"endTime":2136.53,"body":"that internalised ableism,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2136.53,"endTime":2138.41,"body":"that question of,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2136.53,"endTime":2138.41,"body":"am I disabled enough."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2138.41,"endTime":2140.83,"body":"That's internalised ableism,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2138.41,"endTime":2140.83,"body":"only, as we know,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2140.83,"endTime":2142.26,"body":"there's no hamper"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2140.83,"endTime":2142.26,"body":"about being disabled"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2142.26,"endTime":2143.99,"body":"and nobody figures this out"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2142.26,"endTime":2143.99,"body":"until later in life"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2143.99,"endTime":2146.49,"body":"and it's actually do you know"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2143.99,"endTime":2146.49,"body":"what, I am disabled enough"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2146.49,"endTime":2148.73,"body":"because my experiences"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2146.49,"endTime":2148.73,"body":"are uniquely to me."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2148.73,"endTime":2151.13,"body":"As I said, I'm only an expert"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2148.73,"endTime":2151.13,"body":"on my own lived experiences."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2151.13,"endTime":2152.92,"body":"If you ask another"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2151.13,"endTime":2152.92,"body":"disabled person,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2152.92,"endTime":2154.86,"body":"they'll have something"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2152.92,"endTime":2154.86,"body":"completely different."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2154.86,"endTime":2157.35,"body":"That's why I think if we are"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2154.86,"endTime":2157.35,"body":"going to educate about ableism,"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2157.35,"endTime":2159.65,"body":"is, let's learn"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2157.35,"endTime":2159.65,"body":"that disability is diverse."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2159.65,"endTime":2163.33,"body":"Let's start at lesson one and"},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2159.65,"endTime":2163.33,"body":"let's explain what that means."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2164.17,"endTime":2167.01,"body":"Amen to that and I think"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2164.17,"endTime":2167.01,"body":"that's a perfect note to say,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2167.01,"endTime":2170.91,"body":"thank you to our sponsors"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2167.01,"endTime":2170.91,"body":"Amazon and to My ClearText"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2170.91,"endTime":2173.03,"body":"for keeping us captioned"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2170.91,"endTime":2173.03,"body":"and On Air."},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2173.03,"endTime":2175.48,"body":"So thank you Jamie,"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2173.03,"endTime":2175.48,"body":"we really look forward to you"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2175.48,"endTime":2177.51,"body":"joining us on social media"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2177.51,"endTime":2179.44,"body":"and to continue"},{"speaker":"NEIL","startTime":2177.51,"endTime":2179.44,"body":"the conversation."},{"speaker":"JAMIE","startTime":2179.44,"endTime":2181.04,"body":"Thanks so much for having me."}]}