{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.052,"endTime":2.752,"body":"Hello and welcome to AXSChat."},{"startTime":2.752,"endTime":5.152,"body":"We're really very happy indeed."},{"startTime":5.452,"endTime":14.552,"body":"First time I've not said delighted in a long time in terms of our intros, but we're"},{"startTime":5.452,"endTime":14.552,"body":"extremely happy to welcome back to AXSChat Mike Gifford."},{"startTime":14.552,"endTime":29.552,"body":"Mike is long term friend of AXSChat, works for Civic Actions, has been engaged in"},{"startTime":14.552,"endTime":29.552,"body":"accessibility and open source for a very long time, but also was one of the catalysts for"},{"startTime":29.552,"endTime":34.999,"body":"Access Chat moving our social Q \u0026A to blue sky."},{"startTime":34.999,"endTime":38.524,"body":"So, welcome back, Mike, and thank you."},{"startTime":38.524,"endTime":48.866,"body":"So, for those people that haven't watched the previous three times you've been on, can you"},{"startTime":38.524,"endTime":48.866,"body":"tell us about your role, what you're doing right now?"},{"startTime":49.112,"endTime":50.012,"body":"sure."},{"startTime":50.452,"endTime":54.563,"body":"So at Civic Actions, an open standards and practices lead,"},{"startTime":54.563,"endTime":56.914,"body":"happening both nationally and internationally."},{"startTime":56.914,"endTime":61.794,"body":"So that's partly through Drupal and in Drupal I'm a Drupal core accessibility maintainer."},{"startTime":61.794,"endTime":71.274,"body":"Also involved in the accessibility roles and responsibilities mapping or matrix where it's"},{"startTime":61.794,"endTime":71.274,"body":"still in flux at the moment as to what the name is going to be, but there's a community"},{"startTime":71.274,"endTime":78.383,"body":"group that WCA3 is set up to try and make it easier to try and..."},{"startTime":78.383,"endTime":84.868,"body":"have a sense of like to make WK easier for people to grok in their own particular"},{"startTime":78.383,"endTime":84.868,"body":"disciplines."},{"startTime":84.868,"endTime":91.243,"body":"And I also took on the responsibility for developing the accessibility chapter of the Web"},{"startTime":84.868,"endTime":91.243,"body":"Almanac this year."},{"startTime":91.243,"endTime":99.298,"body":"So that was a huge undertaking that I wasn't necessarily thinking of getting into until I"},{"startTime":91.243,"endTime":99.298,"body":"realized that the guy who had done it the previous..."},{"startTime":99.298,"endTime":101.761,"body":"was not going to be able to go off and to do the work."},{"startTime":101.761,"endTime":112.647,"body":"So I stepped up and took on the data roles as well as the editorial roles and did some"},{"startTime":101.761,"endTime":112.647,"body":"stuff that helped push it a little bit further than it had been done before."},{"startTime":112.647,"endTime":114.579,"body":"So was very happy about that."},{"startTime":114.749,"endTime":121.457,"body":"So for those of our audience that don't know, can you tell us what the Web Almanac is?"},{"startTime":121.98,"endTime":128.82,"body":"So the Web Almanac is an annual snapshot of the web."},{"startTime":128.86,"endTime":144.06,"body":"And it's an opportunity to look at over 17 million websites and 83 terabytes of data and"},{"startTime":128.86,"endTime":144.06,"body":"to analyze that to say, how is the web this year different than it was last year?"},{"startTime":144.4,"endTime":148.08,"body":"So they look at things like JavaScript and content management systems."},{"startTime":148.66,"endTime":151.548,"body":"They've in the last two years been talking about sustainability because"},{"startTime":151.548,"endTime":152.95,"body":"course, we're in a climate crisis."},{"startTime":152.95,"endTime":157.995,"body":"And accessibility has been something that's been part of the Web Almanac from the"},{"startTime":152.95,"endTime":157.995,"body":"beginning."},{"startTime":157.995,"endTime":162.279,"body":"Many people will have heard of the Internet Archive, so an archive.org."},{"startTime":162.68,"endTime":174.371,"body":"This is a part of that, it's a part of the same nonprofit and is being developed by the"},{"startTime":162.68,"endTime":174.371,"body":"HTTP Archive, which is again trying to aggregate and get a summary of where the web is"},{"startTime":174.371,"endTime":176.654,"body":"going and provide that history of the web."},{"startTime":177.162,"endTime":178.586,"body":"Excellent, thank you."},{"startTime":179.111,"endTime":181.951,"body":"Looks like Deborah wants to ask a question."},{"startTime":182.372,"endTime":192.382,"body":"Well, I find it fascinating and I want to thank you, Mike, because even though I've been"},{"startTime":182.372,"endTime":192.382,"body":"in the field a really long time and I've done the WCAG groups, it's just really not"},{"startTime":192.382,"endTime":194.104,"body":"something that I enjoy doing."},{"startTime":194.104,"endTime":196.538,"body":"I digging into it like y'all do."},{"startTime":196.538,"endTime":207.469,"body":"It's just not what works for my brain, but I am so grateful, so grateful that you are"},{"startTime":196.538,"endTime":207.469,"body":"doing it because, but also, and I know that we were all figuring this out, but"},{"startTime":207.546,"endTime":217.373,"body":"I like that you said accessibility was included from the very beginning of it because I"},{"startTime":207.546,"endTime":217.373,"body":"still struggle with why society would not include humans in technology anyway."},{"startTime":217.373,"endTime":227.119,"body":"I just am really baffled by why we even have to have a word accessibility or any other"},{"startTime":217.373,"endTime":227.119,"body":"word because why would we build anything?"},{"startTime":227.119,"endTime":229.862,"body":"Technology, the built world."},{"startTime":229.972,"endTime":232.393,"body":"that isn't accessible to humans at every phase of their life."},{"startTime":232.393,"endTime":234.584,"body":"It is so illogical to my brain."},{"startTime":234.584,"endTime":237.586,"body":"And so I'm very thankful that you are doing that."},{"startTime":237.586,"endTime":244.289,"body":"And I hope the audience understands how big of a job these things are that you are doing."},{"startTime":244.289,"endTime":247.75,"body":"And I know people, for example, WCAG is so hard."},{"startTime":247.75,"endTime":250.311,"body":"Well, this is a complicated topic."},{"startTime":250.311,"endTime":256.265,"body":"And so I think it's really wonderful that we were included right from the beginning, but."},{"startTime":256.265,"endTime":257.817,"body":"I was a former programmer."},{"startTime":257.817,"endTime":260.95,"body":"did it for six years, six long years."},{"startTime":260.95,"endTime":262.311,"body":"I was pretty good at it."},{"startTime":262.311,"endTime":265.075,"body":"I just didn't like it."},{"startTime":265.075,"endTime":270.602,"body":"But I learned so very much about things you talk about when you're bringing in the"},{"startTime":265.075,"endTime":270.602,"body":"JavaScript, the sustainability."},{"startTime":270.602,"endTime":274.567,"body":"And I'm fascinated by the different steps that are being taken."},{"startTime":274.567,"endTime":277.201,"body":"so first of I wanted to just give you that long."},{"startTime":277.201,"endTime":280.873,"body":"thing just because I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way."},{"startTime":280.873,"endTime":283.226,"body":"Some of us will be like, yeah, I know that stuff."},{"startTime":283.226,"endTime":286.267,"body":"It's so boring, but it's so critical to what we're doing."},{"startTime":286.267,"endTime":291.19,"body":"You're the infrastructure so that we don't have to go out and beg to be included."},{"startTime":291.43,"endTime":296.013,"body":"If we make it part of the, yeah, build it into the engine."},{"startTime":296.013,"endTime":298.476,"body":"And so I, that fascinates me."},{"startTime":298.476,"endTime":302.038,"body":"And I was just curious, how did you get involved so early?"},{"startTime":302.038,"endTime":302.718,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":302.718,"endTime":303.579,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":303.579,"endTime":304.235,"body":"But"},{"startTime":304.235,"endTime":306.958,"body":"And also, why do we have to get involved so early?"},{"startTime":306.958,"endTime":313.566,"body":"Yeah, it's once again, why are you doing anything that doesn't work for all humans?"},{"startTime":313.566,"endTime":314.685,"body":"Just don't get it."},{"startTime":314.685,"endTime":318.485,"body":"the web almanac, didn't start, I'm a latecomer."},{"startTime":318.485,"endTime":321.065,"body":"I was actually just trying to go off and be involved."},{"startTime":321.225,"endTime":323.765,"body":"I wanted to help a little bit this last year."},{"startTime":323.765,"endTime":334.705,"body":"And it was only when it became clear that the guy who I thought was going to be leading it"},{"startTime":323.765,"endTime":334.705,"body":"wasn't going to lead it, that I was like, okay, if it's gonna happen, I'm gonna have to do"},{"startTime":334.705,"endTime":335.785,"body":"it."},{"startTime":335.785,"endTime":341.851,"body":"And I think that the almanac has just been clear that's..."},{"startTime":341.851,"endTime":353.194,"body":"that this is one of the important standards for the web and that there's so much"},{"startTime":341.851,"endTime":353.194,"body":"legislation around it and there's such a requirement to think about how accessibility is"},{"startTime":353.194,"endTime":354.104,"body":"changing over time."},{"startTime":354.104,"endTime":364.254,"body":"it's been lovely to go off and have things like the WebA Million, which does give you that"},{"startTime":354.104,"endTime":364.254,"body":"sort of snapshot of how accessible the top million websites are."},{"startTime":364.254,"endTime":370.618,"body":"but the HTTP Archive had a different kind of set of data set and a different engine that"},{"startTime":364.254,"endTime":370.618,"body":"they could test against."},{"startTime":370.618,"endTime":376.581,"body":"we're using the Google Lighthouse for scanning these 17 million web pages."},{"startTime":376.581,"endTime":382.567,"body":"And that's actually gives us the information that Axe Core or Deque's Axe Core is behind"},{"startTime":376.581,"endTime":382.567,"body":"that."},{"startTime":382.567,"endTime":388.263,"body":"But it allows us to see things a little bit differently because it's a different engine"},{"startTime":382.567,"endTime":388.263,"body":"that's designed for avoiding false positives."},{"startTime":388.263,"endTime":395.323,"body":"We mentioned, we know that there's more legislation than ever on the topic of"},{"startTime":388.263,"endTime":395.323,"body":"responsibility."},{"startTime":395.323,"endTime":398.563,"body":"There was never a period with so much legislation."},{"startTime":398.703,"endTime":408.223,"body":"So it will be interesting to see how that amount of regulation is impacting."},{"startTime":408.383,"endTime":414.074,"body":"And if there's a correspondence in the web becoming more accessible."},{"startTime":414.074,"endTime":422.151,"body":"all this legislation helping us when you look to the Almanac and to the data to the years"},{"startTime":414.074,"endTime":422.151,"body":"actually helping us to progress."},{"startTime":422.289,"endTime":423.329,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":423.689,"endTime":429.309,"body":"one of the things I, there's two pieces of information that's useful."},{"startTime":429.689,"endTime":440.409,"body":"One, as organizations, we're making choices about the content management systems we're"},{"startTime":429.689,"endTime":440.409,"body":"implementing or the platforms we're implementing, it's very clear from the data that if"},{"startTime":440.409,"endTime":448.689,"body":"you're buying a content management system that is invested in accessibility, that the"},{"startTime":440.409,"endTime":448.689,"body":"chances are that your product will be more accessible than not."},{"startTime":448.689,"endTime":449.435,"body":"So..."},{"startTime":449.435,"endTime":453.268,"body":"We have data on that that clearly indicates that this is the case."},{"startTime":453.268,"endTime":457.251,"body":"The next, in terms of countries and legislations, it's been interesting."},{"startTime":457.251,"endTime":465.116,"body":"One of the innovations I had is that because I was doing the analytics side as well, is"},{"startTime":457.251,"endTime":465.116,"body":"that I could query to pull out government data."},{"startTime":465.116,"endTime":472.335,"body":"So I could try and say, how do governments around the world compare on accessibility and"},{"startTime":465.116,"endTime":472.335,"body":"have a..."},{"startTime":472.335,"endTime":481.702,"body":"a single spreadsheet that has hundreds of thousands of government websites that are part"},{"startTime":472.335,"endTime":481.702,"body":"of this, and then break that down by country to say, okay, how does the UK compare to"},{"startTime":481.702,"endTime":482.142,"body":"France?"},{"startTime":482.142,"endTime":484.623,"body":"How does Texas compare to New York?"},{"startTime":484.623,"endTime":492.997,"body":"And I have that information as part of this, and I was able to provide a leaderboard for"},{"startTime":484.623,"endTime":492.997,"body":"governments around the world to see how they're doing."},{"startTime":492.997,"endTime":494.897,"body":"And this is something that's..."},{"startTime":494.907,"endTime":504.471,"body":"I was able to demonstrate that the web accessibility directive has an impact because"},{"startTime":494.907,"endTime":504.471,"body":"European websites are generally more accessible than the American websites, American"},{"startTime":504.471,"endTime":505.517,"body":"government websites."},{"startTime":505.517,"endTime":508.62,"body":"So that's lovely from that perspective."},{"startTime":508.62,"endTime":514.735,"body":"But also it'll be interesting with the European Accessibility Act to see what those"},{"startTime":508.62,"endTime":514.735,"body":"changes are in this next year."},{"startTime":514.735,"endTime":521.533,"body":"Now this is again a snapshot so that we can see how accessible governments are and how"},{"startTime":514.735,"endTime":521.533,"body":"accessible countries are."},{"startTime":521.533,"endTime":524.915,"body":"in Europe, so when that gets brought over, we'll be able to see that."},{"startTime":524.915,"endTime":531.046,"body":"both the Web Accessibility Directive and the European Accessibility Act, there's going to"},{"startTime":524.915,"endTime":531.046,"body":"be differences in how they're implemented in each country."},{"startTime":531.046,"endTime":533.919,"body":"So we'll be able to look at providing some country legislation there."},{"startTime":533.919,"endTime":545.445,"body":"I'm also hoping to be able to next year provide an analysis of how do the states, the US"},{"startTime":533.919,"endTime":545.445,"body":"states, are they able to make their websites more accessible?"},{"startTime":545.533,"endTime":551.994,"body":"because there's legislation with the Department of Justice that's pushing states to meet"},{"startTime":545.533,"endTime":551.994,"body":"Debbie Cague 2.1."},{"startTime":551.994,"endTime":559.845,"body":"So we should be able to see between this year, this past year and this year coming, a"},{"startTime":551.994,"endTime":559.845,"body":"significant improvement in the accessibility of states."},{"startTime":559.845,"endTime":563.46,"body":"And I have all of that data for states across the US."},{"startTime":563.46,"endTime":570.847,"body":"We know that there's been a few not so good news about the investments on diversity,"},{"startTime":563.46,"endTime":570.847,"body":"equity, inclusion and accessibility."},{"startTime":570.847,"endTime":572.469,"body":"Now this being on the news."},{"startTime":572.469,"endTime":585.501,"body":"So what I would like to ask from you is that with companies somehow under pressure, how"},{"startTime":572.469,"endTime":585.501,"body":"can we support those organizations that want to continue to invest because we have data"},{"startTime":585.501,"endTime":588.641,"body":"that proves that their investment"},{"startTime":588.641,"endTime":593.047,"body":"as broad results and they should continue to invest on this."},{"startTime":593.456,"endTime":604.63,"body":"From looking at what Lainey Feingold has stated, at least in terms of accessibility, it"},{"startTime":593.456,"endTime":604.63,"body":"seems to be at this stage that accessibility is not on the chopping block, that there's a"},{"startTime":604.63,"endTime":608.356,"body":"commitment still to meet Section 508 compliance."},{"startTime":608.356,"endTime":614.485,"body":"Unfortunately, the data also demonstrates that the US government is not meeting Section"},{"startTime":608.356,"endTime":614.485,"body":"508."},{"startTime":614.485,"endTime":626.693,"body":"that the goal of having an accessible government that any citizen can engage with and work"},{"startTime":614.485,"endTime":626.693,"body":"with, there's now ample evidence from the study that the US federal government is not"},{"startTime":626.693,"endTime":629.005,"body":"meeting those requirements around accessibility."},{"startTime":629.005,"endTime":637.89,"body":"And there hasn't been a study like this before that really demonstrates that Europe has"},{"startTime":629.005,"endTime":637.89,"body":"soared ahead of the US on this front."},{"startTime":637.89,"endTime":639.375,"body":"And the US has done..."},{"startTime":639.375,"endTime":639.885,"body":"I mean, the U.S."},{"startTime":639.885,"endTime":645.04,"body":"has 30 years of an advantage or a head start over the rest of the world on digital"},{"startTime":639.885,"endTime":645.04,"body":"accessibility."},{"startTime":645.04,"endTime":647.103,"body":"There's really no reason for the U.S."},{"startTime":647.103,"endTime":649.084,"body":"to be behind, except that the U.S."},{"startTime":649.084,"endTime":658.513,"body":"has rested on its laurels and has assumed that since they were early on on implementing"},{"startTime":649.084,"endTime":658.513,"body":"Section 508 and looking at these government policy standards, that there wasn't going to"},{"startTime":658.513,"endTime":663.847,"body":"be a requirement to go off and to improve and build on that over time."},{"startTime":664.525,"endTime":676.945,"body":"So this also tells us that the fact that there is more culture of litigation in the US,"},{"startTime":664.525,"endTime":676.945,"body":"that culture of litigation has not brought to any results."},{"startTime":677.611,"endTime":678.861,"body":"I mean, it has."},{"startTime":678.861,"endTime":683.968,"body":"I if you look at the, I mean, there definitely are improvements, again, doing country"},{"startTime":678.861,"endTime":683.968,"body":"comparisons."},{"startTime":683.968,"endTime":693.308,"body":"If you have, if you're comparing the companies in the States, or if you're looking at"},{"startTime":683.968,"endTime":693.308,"body":"educational institutions, like educational institutions in the States are quite"},{"startTime":693.308,"endTime":698.581,"body":"accessible, know, in general, like the .edu domain is really quite accessible."},{"startTime":698.581,"endTime":703.428,"body":"And it'd be lovely to go off and to see how well does the edu domain compare to"},{"startTime":703.428,"endTime":706.131,"body":"to the educational institutions in other countries."},{"startTime":706.131,"endTime":716.16,"body":"We don't have access to lists of every other .edu, but we do have access to the European,"},{"startTime":706.131,"endTime":716.16,"body":"or sorry, the American educational institutions as part of that."},{"startTime":716.16,"endTime":720.703,"body":"So that's a nice way to go off and to highlight the work that has been done."},{"startTime":720.703,"endTime":727.019,"body":"And I think lawsuits are part of that, as well as certainly the efforts of the Department"},{"startTime":720.703,"endTime":727.019,"body":"of Education, which has..."},{"startTime":727.019,"endTime":732.774,"body":"has put a lot of pressure on universities to make sure that they are meeting those"},{"startTime":727.019,"endTime":732.774,"body":"accessibility requirements."},{"startTime":732.774,"endTime":739.55,"body":"So, I have a couple of comments based upon the observation that you made before."},{"startTime":739.55,"endTime":747.403,"body":"I don't think we can necessarily blame people for making an assumption that stuff is"},{"startTime":739.55,"endTime":747.403,"body":"better."},{"startTime":747.403,"endTime":749.654,"body":"It's something that I come across all the time."},{"startTime":749.654,"endTime":757.648,"body":"You know, we can't always assume that people are ableist because they're not doing"},{"startTime":749.654,"endTime":757.648,"body":"something because one of the conversations that comes up all the time is, this is really"},{"startTime":757.648,"endTime":758.758,"body":"important."},{"startTime":758.878,"endTime":761.979,"body":"I just assumed that we were doing this already."},{"startTime":762.099,"endTime":765.042,"body":"So there's this assumption that someone else is already doing it."},{"startTime":765.042,"endTime":767.283,"body":"So you wonder whether"},{"startTime":767.283,"endTime":777.769,"body":"because it's been around for a while as a topic, people have just assumed that it's being"},{"startTime":767.283,"endTime":777.769,"body":"done when it's not, because everybody is assuming everyone else has picked it up, and"},{"startTime":777.769,"endTime":779.591,"body":"there's not that level of clarity."},{"startTime":779.591,"endTime":792.634,"body":"I'm also really interested in that comparison of academia between the different countries,"},{"startTime":779.591,"endTime":792.634,"body":"because we know that when the public sector web requirements came in in the UK,"},{"startTime":792.634,"endTime":796.125,"body":"some of the hardest pushback was from academia."},{"startTime":797.125,"endTime":811.479,"body":"So, if you're able to compare ac.uk with .edu, that would be really interesting because it"},{"startTime":797.125,"endTime":811.479,"body":"was really something where a lot of universities and a lot of academics were really"},{"startTime":811.479,"endTime":817.972,"body":"reticent to do it, which is disappointing and surprising because you would think that they"},{"startTime":811.479,"endTime":817.972,"body":"want people to be able to be educated."},{"startTime":817.972,"endTime":824.773,"body":"But and there were really different opinions between the two, but having that data to be"},{"startTime":817.972,"endTime":824.773,"body":"able to compare would be super useful."},{"startTime":824.809,"endTime":835.749,"body":"And to be able to compare, hey, Oxford and Harvard, compete a lot, but if Harvard is a lot"},{"startTime":824.809,"endTime":835.749,"body":"more accessible than Oxford, wouldn't it be an interesting thing to bring that leadership"},{"startTime":835.749,"endTime":843.189,"body":"together to say, okay, well, we need to go off and at least beat those folks in Harvard so"},{"startTime":835.749,"endTime":843.189,"body":"that this is a priority."},{"startTime":843.189,"endTime":854.164,"body":"We can use the Atlantic as a way to go off and to use competition as a way to go off and"},{"startTime":843.189,"endTime":854.164,"body":"encourage us to have those best angels and to work towards them and support them."},{"startTime":854.164,"endTime":859.367,"body":"Cause we currently have rankings on the most sustainable universities in the world."},{"startTime":859.367,"endTime":861.873,"body":"So it will be interesting to have one on that."},{"startTime":862.023,"endTime":862.855,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":863.146,"endTime":870.855,"body":"Well, if I could just come in here as the American in the room, I do want to say that we"},{"startTime":863.146,"endTime":870.855,"body":"have done some really good things too."},{"startTime":870.855,"endTime":877.072,"body":"We're all pretty shook up over here, but I do want to say that what we do, we did a lot."},{"startTime":877.072,"endTime":887.179,"body":"We did, we tried, there were so many things that we tried to do, you know, and also my"},{"startTime":877.072,"endTime":887.179,"body":"beautiful little country here, litigation and legislation, you know."},{"startTime":887.311,"endTime":892.391,"body":"The reality is that's just the way we do it as you all can see."},{"startTime":892.391,"endTime":895.251,"body":"It's really a big old mess."},{"startTime":895.251,"endTime":903.302,"body":"But at the same time, think that what is really good about my country is that we started"},{"startTime":895.251,"endTime":903.302,"body":"it."},{"startTime":903.302,"endTime":906.862,"body":"We did our Americans with Disability Act in 1990."},{"startTime":906.862,"endTime":911.482,"body":"We really started updating 508 in 2001."},{"startTime":911.534,"endTime":924.574,"body":"which is is actually a law that's from 1973, but still at the same point, we got along the"},{"startTime":911.534,"endTime":924.574,"body":"way, I think we just got so confused about what we were fighting for."},{"startTime":924.574,"endTime":937.374,"body":"I think we just lost, you know, and as nonprofits joined and business to business groups"},{"startTime":924.574,"endTime":937.374,"body":"and they started getting funded and funded by the corporation, everything got so messy and"},{"startTime":937.374,"endTime":939.576,"body":"so complicated and so out of hand."},{"startTime":939.576,"endTime":948.801,"body":"But I think we should be proud, us Americans, come on, give us our, we can be proud that"},{"startTime":939.576,"endTime":948.801,"body":"we started a lot of these conversations and we did have impact."},{"startTime":948.801,"endTime":954.43,"body":"It got real messy, but our litigation and legislation forced a lot of..."},{"startTime":954.43,"endTime":958.186,"body":"opportunity now, you can make accessibility great again."},{"startTime":958.443,"endTime":968.747,"body":"Yeah, but I think it's important to highlight that what was done in United States have"},{"startTime":958.443,"endTime":968.747,"body":"positively influenced a change in other parts of the world."},{"startTime":968.747,"endTime":970.34,"body":"Yeah, it's going to be great."},{"startTime":970.34,"endTime":971.897,"body":"It's going to be amazing."},{"startTime":971.897,"endTime":976.2,"body":"There's some very fine people working on accessibility."},{"startTime":976.2,"endTime":981.802,"body":"Because it's all about making accessibility great again."},{"startTime":981.802,"endTime":982.573,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":982.573,"endTime":983.437,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":983.437,"endTime":994.677,"body":"going back to some of the things you were saying earlier, Neil, it is hard sometimes to"},{"startTime":983.437,"endTime":994.677,"body":"make something visible."},{"startTime":994.677,"endTime":1002.577,"body":"And so I've been looking at alt text recently and trying to look at the challenges of alt"},{"startTime":994.677,"endTime":1002.577,"body":"text for websites."},{"startTime":1002.577,"endTime":1008.763,"body":"And I've looked at some websites in the European Union and also in the..."},{"startTime":1008.763,"endTime":1010.974,"body":"in the US that should be very accessible."},{"startTime":1010.974,"endTime":1016.799,"body":"I found a bunch of places where alt text is not done properly or it's just missed."},{"startTime":1016.799,"endTime":1025.266,"body":"And I built up an alt text scanning tool that looks for images and looks for alt text and"},{"startTime":1016.799,"endTime":1025.266,"body":"then sort of provides some examples."},{"startTime":1025.266,"endTime":1035.637,"body":"And also addresses things like outdated information like long desk was an appropriate form"},{"startTime":1025.266,"endTime":1035.637,"body":"of HTML a few years ago, but it's out of date, it's no longer supported."},{"startTime":1035.637,"endTime":1044.177,"body":"The WC3 still has links on their, or images on their website that are using long desk,"},{"startTime":1035.637,"endTime":1044.177,"body":"even though it's no longer a supported standard."},{"startTime":1044.177,"endTime":1047.057,"body":"That's not very good for a standards body to have."},{"startTime":1047.837,"endTime":1053.077,"body":"But I think it is one of these things where unless it's visible, people are not going to"},{"startTime":1047.837,"endTime":1053.077,"body":"act on it."},{"startTime":1053.077,"endTime":1062.997,"body":"And there's some things that are also just hard the way that we've tried to approach it,"},{"startTime":1053.077,"endTime":1062.997,"body":"like taking images and looking at it on an image by image or page by page basis, that's"},{"startTime":1062.997,"endTime":1063.561,"body":"a..."},{"startTime":1063.561,"endTime":1066.724,"body":"that doesn't scale well and it allows for things to be missed."},{"startTime":1066.724,"endTime":1077.076,"body":"by the little open source tool that I created allows us to go up and see that in a"},{"startTime":1066.724,"endTime":1077.076,"body":"different way and also allows us to incorporate AI into that and say if there is bad alt"},{"startTime":1077.076,"endTime":1088.908,"body":"text, how do we provide some better suggestions that authors can see what at least can get"},{"startTime":1077.076,"endTime":1088.908,"body":"an overview of what AI might suggest would be a better description of the image."},{"startTime":1088.908,"endTime":1095.217,"body":"And it may not be better for the content or for the author, but the level of alt text is"},{"startTime":1088.908,"endTime":1095.217,"body":"just so bad right now."},{"startTime":1095.217,"endTime":1100.823,"body":"Even in sites that care about accessibility, because it's invisible, authors often"},{"startTime":1095.217,"endTime":1100.823,"body":"overlook it."},{"startTime":1100.823,"endTime":1107.49,"body":"it still is a real problem, even though it's 1.1.1, it's the basics of web accessibility"},{"startTime":1100.823,"endTime":1107.49,"body":"that's done badly."},{"startTime":1107.49,"endTime":1119.784,"body":"So, I can see you itching to get into it, but I just have a quick observation is that when"},{"startTime":1107.49,"endTime":1119.784,"body":"the sites are originally put together, quite often you start well, right?"},{"startTime":1119.784,"endTime":1131.318,"body":"The site websites or apps are designed by people that care, and you go through quality"},{"startTime":1119.784,"endTime":1131.318,"body":"processes and everything else, and what happens over time is that the responsibility for"},{"startTime":1131.318,"endTime":1133.979,"body":"refreshing the content gets devolved."},{"startTime":1134.479,"endTime":1144.845,"body":"and frankly in organisations they go through a process of shifting left and so they want"},{"startTime":1134.479,"endTime":1144.845,"body":"to get more junior people doing this stuff and people leave and stuff doesn't get handed"},{"startTime":1144.845,"endTime":1146.095,"body":"over."},{"startTime":1146.136,"endTime":1159.134,"body":"So, in the end, you end up with only half of the processes being followed that were"},{"startTime":1146.136,"endTime":1159.134,"body":"originally intended and I see that being quite common in terms of how you end up with this"},{"startTime":1159.134,"endTime":1160.054,"body":"sort of"},{"startTime":1160.236,"endTime":1165.242,"body":"degradation of quality and accessibility on websites over time."},{"startTime":1165.242,"endTime":1168.728,"body":"So, how do we address that without automation?"},{"startTime":1168.728,"endTime":1173.292,"body":"Because it's going to be very difficult because it's such a big time."},{"startTime":1173.381,"endTime":1174.962,"body":"we're not going to do without automation."},{"startTime":1174.962,"endTime":1177.68,"body":"need automation and we probably need AI too."},{"startTime":1177.68,"endTime":1182.148,"body":"But we also need to understand how the project life cycle works."},{"startTime":1182.148,"endTime":1184.01,"body":"And you described that really well."},{"startTime":1184.01,"endTime":1187.613,"body":"And then there's the software life cycle, just understanding how software is built."},{"startTime":1187.613,"endTime":1198.606,"body":"I've talked here before about open source now, how so often people do not get, governments"},{"startTime":1187.613,"endTime":1198.606,"body":"and organizations don't get involved in the right level if they want to actually influence"},{"startTime":1198.606,"endTime":1199.919,"body":"the project."},{"startTime":1199.919,"endTime":1212.119,"body":"that there's a real opportunity to, there's one blind Italian student who in the year"},{"startTime":1199.919,"endTime":1212.119,"body":"between finishing high school and starting university contributed more to Drupal 8's"},{"startTime":1212.119,"endTime":1215.239,"body":"accessibility than all the governments in the world combined."},{"startTime":1215.359,"endTime":1217.919,"body":"And that's not because he was super brilliant."},{"startTime":1217.919,"endTime":1219.619,"body":"He was, yes."},{"startTime":1219.619,"endTime":1223.339,"body":"But it's just that the governments in the world weren't working on that."},{"startTime":1223.339,"endTime":1224.799,"body":"They never looked at the next version."},{"startTime":1224.799,"endTime":1226.339,"body":"They only worked on the"},{"startTime":1226.339,"endTime":1228.222,"body":"the version of the code they're using now."},{"startTime":1228.222,"endTime":1235.271,"body":"They were looking at identifying problems in what is here rather than what is coming and"},{"startTime":1228.222,"endTime":1235.271,"body":"looking ahead to that future state."},{"startTime":1235.843,"endTime":1237.475,"body":"Well, and that's what I would say."},{"startTime":1237.475,"endTime":1245.88,"body":"do have to say that Neil, especially, and Antonio have been very funny with what they're"},{"startTime":1237.475,"endTime":1245.88,"body":"saying about making accessibility great again."},{"startTime":1245.88,"endTime":1248.201,"body":"I do."},{"startTime":1248.201,"endTime":1248.682,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1248.682,"endTime":1253.235,"body":"But I think it does go back to, I have a couple of just questions."},{"startTime":1253.235,"endTime":1257.248,"body":"And one of them, I'm curious how all this work is being funded because it's so critical."},{"startTime":1257.248,"endTime":1259.202,"body":"And then also, OK."},{"startTime":1259.202,"endTime":1265.078,"body":"Regardless of whether some country made a big old mess of everything, whatever, we need to"},{"startTime":1259.202,"endTime":1265.078,"body":"point finger."},{"startTime":1265.078,"endTime":1265.419,"body":"yeah."},{"startTime":1265.419,"endTime":1268.942,"body":"Regardless, where do we go from here and how do we stop this?"},{"startTime":1268.942,"endTime":1273.036,"body":"Because there are so many well-intentioned people trying to make a difference."},{"startTime":1273.036,"endTime":1278.55,"body":"I know that we got to back out of where we accidentally got into, DEIA, whatever."},{"startTime":1278.784,"endTime":1282.806,"body":"I still think that so many technologists do want to do this."},{"startTime":1282.806,"endTime":1288.129,"body":"remember years ago training a big telecommunications brand here in the United States."},{"startTime":1288.129,"endTime":1291.391,"body":"And so I go in there to train all these engineers and stuff."},{"startTime":1291.391,"endTime":1294.393,"body":"And they, I swear, almost knew more about it than I did at the time."},{"startTime":1294.393,"endTime":1298.693,"body":"And I'm like, well, if y'all know this, and they say, Deborah, it doesn't work that way."},{"startTime":1298.693,"endTime":1304.654,"body":"If the brand does not ask for it, and if not, they do not appreciate us saying, what"},{"startTime":1298.693,"endTime":1304.654,"body":"about, so."},{"startTime":1304.654,"endTime":1316.399,"body":"It's just, and I've said to Antonio and Neil before, both of them representing a very"},{"startTime":1304.654,"endTime":1316.399,"body":"large global brand, they have a very unique position in what we're all trying to do here,"},{"startTime":1316.399,"endTime":1316.909,"body":"right?"},{"startTime":1316.909,"endTime":1321.062,"body":"And so I just, I wonder where do we go from here?"},{"startTime":1321.062,"endTime":1325.423,"body":"Because yes, my country is in trouble."},{"startTime":1326.104,"endTime":1327.044,"body":"But..."},{"startTime":1327.285,"endTime":1330.166,"body":"You know, but we do influence a lot of other countries."},{"startTime":1330.166,"endTime":1334.068,"body":"And so what do we, by golly, what in the world do we do now?"},{"startTime":1334.068,"endTime":1338.939,"body":"And because this isn't about a movement, this is about human beings, right?"},{"startTime":1338.939,"endTime":1340.851,"body":"So what the heck we, you know."},{"startTime":1340.851,"endTime":1341.881,"body":"So where do we go now?"},{"startTime":1341.881,"endTime":1350.654,"body":"I think that the, I think what you're doing is amazing, but I do wonder as somebody that"},{"startTime":1341.881,"endTime":1350.654,"body":"has really struggled to get work funded, luckily I'm going to move past that."},{"startTime":1350.654,"endTime":1352.494,"body":"But where do we go?"},{"startTime":1352.494,"endTime":1354.175,"body":"Where do we go from here?"},{"startTime":1354.175,"endTime":1355.417,"body":"Yes, please."},{"startTime":1355.417,"endTime":1360.357,"body":"I think that actually, everybody's talking about reframing, right?"},{"startTime":1360.957,"endTime":1369.157,"body":"Of course, and so, there's been a sort of seismic shift in how people are viewing certain"},{"startTime":1360.957,"endTime":1369.157,"body":"topics."},{"startTime":1369.456,"endTime":1378.357,"body":"But, you know, we can actually think about this in a transactional way."},{"startTime":1379.257,"endTime":1382.553,"body":"You know, because it's, know, when you're"},{"startTime":1382.591,"endTime":1387.104,"body":"making transactions or doing deals on the web, right?"},{"startTime":1387.104,"endTime":1393.327,"body":"You know, what you want is for those transactions to be great and to be very, very, very"},{"startTime":1387.104,"endTime":1393.327,"body":"successful."},{"startTime":1393.327,"endTime":1395.227,"body":"You don't want failure."},{"startTime":1395.308,"endTime":1407.874,"body":"And so when you're creating something that is accessible, it creates more great"},{"startTime":1395.308,"endTime":1407.874,"body":"transactions because people aren't failing to be able to do something on the web."},{"startTime":1407.874,"endTime":1410.955,"body":"And that generates revenue."},{"startTime":1410.955,"endTime":1412.515,"body":"money talks."},{"startTime":1413.215,"endTime":1425.635,"body":"those are the sort of things that we can do, you know, to be able to when we look at the"},{"startTime":1413.215,"endTime":1425.635,"body":"projects that we're working on in 2025, to really make them accessible and to really focus"},{"startTime":1425.635,"endTime":1440.891,"body":"on all of the benefits for your, you know, your great country, you know, the benefits of,"},{"startTime":1425.635,"endTime":1440.891,"body":"know, when you're going first, right, you really need to have that."},{"startTime":1440.891,"endTime":1447.775,"body":"leadership and being able to remove those barriers so that you can have these great"},{"startTime":1440.891,"endTime":1447.775,"body":"transactions."},{"startTime":1447.855,"endTime":1459.385,"body":"So I think that that's where you can really reframe accessibility to be able to put it"},{"startTime":1447.855,"endTime":1459.385,"body":"front and centre and put it first in the mindset of business leaders right now because"},{"startTime":1459.385,"endTime":1461.517,"body":"they really care about these kind of things."},{"startTime":1461.517,"endTime":1463.99,"body":"Wow."},{"startTime":1463.99,"endTime":1465.431,"body":"Wow."},{"startTime":1465.431,"endTime":1466.833,"body":"This is my life now."},{"startTime":1466.833,"endTime":1469.514,"body":"This is my life now."},{"startTime":1469.514,"endTime":1469.976,"body":"Wow."},{"startTime":1469.976,"endTime":1470.797,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1470.797,"endTime":1471.717,"body":"Mike?"},{"startTime":1472.087,"endTime":1476.19,"body":"I think that this is a really neat, I think there's definitely parts to that, right?"},{"startTime":1476.19,"endTime":1486.557,"body":"And sometimes you've got to talk to the people, you've talked, you've got to talk the"},{"startTime":1476.19,"endTime":1486.557,"body":"language of the people who are there and communicate to them in a way that is useful."},{"startTime":1486.557,"endTime":1492.412,"body":"And frankly, even if you're looking at things like meritocracies, open source communities"},{"startTime":1486.557,"endTime":1492.412,"body":"are all about meritocracies."},{"startTime":1492.412,"endTime":1496.474,"body":"It's the best idea wins, but you want to make sure that the right people are in the room."},{"startTime":1496.504,"endTime":1501.758,"body":"and that the most diverse people are in the room and that doesn't involve just the 25 year"},{"startTime":1496.504,"endTime":1501.758,"body":"olds, right?"},{"startTime":1501.758,"endTime":1506.151,"body":"Like 25 year old guys surprisingly do not have all the best ideas."},{"startTime":1506.151,"endTime":1508.322,"body":"They might have some good ideas, I'm sure they do."},{"startTime":1508.322,"endTime":1512.286,"body":"But we know from all kinds of evidence that they don't have all of the best ideas."},{"startTime":1512.286,"endTime":1515.499,"body":"So how do we try and make sure we're bringing a better picture of humanity?"},{"startTime":1515.499,"endTime":1518.911,"body":"Because that's most is what these projects are trying to serve."},{"startTime":1518.911,"endTime":1523.808,"body":"And when you're looking at accessibility, a huge part of the demographic that we need to"},{"startTime":1518.911,"endTime":1523.808,"body":"be"},{"startTime":1523.808,"endTime":1527.312,"body":"talking about and trying to serve better are seniors."},{"startTime":1527.312,"endTime":1538.801,"body":"And now with the baby boomers, we know that there's a huge portion of the population that"},{"startTime":1527.312,"endTime":1538.801,"body":"votes and has, you know, fairly wealthy pocketbooks in comparison to any other demographic"},{"startTime":1538.801,"endTime":1545.489,"body":"that are certainly willing to buy stuff, but they care about accessibility because they"},{"startTime":1538.801,"endTime":1545.489,"body":"want to use the digital services that they've gotten to depend on."},{"startTime":1545.489,"endTime":1546.287,"body":"so..."},{"startTime":1546.287,"endTime":1550.879,"body":"Again, how do we make sure that those people are listened to and how do you follow the"},{"startTime":1546.287,"endTime":1550.879,"body":"money?"},{"startTime":1550.879,"endTime":1558.039,"body":"Before COVID, I was invited by a very large bank brand in the United States."},{"startTime":1558.039,"endTime":1574.259,"body":"And they had done a lot of disability inclusion and stuff and accessibility, but they were"},{"startTime":1558.039,"endTime":1574.259,"body":"really freaking out because as their wealthier customers were aging into needing more"},{"startTime":1574.259,"endTime":1575.131,"body":"things,"},{"startTime":1575.131,"endTime":1579.353,"body":"They did not want to use what they had put together for those other people."},{"startTime":1579.353,"endTime":1580.592,"body":"It was not working."},{"startTime":1580.592,"endTime":1581.954,"body":"I don't want to hear it."},{"startTime":1581.954,"endTime":1582.852,"body":"Don't you dare."},{"startTime":1582.852,"endTime":1584.295,"body":"I will move my money."},{"startTime":1584.295,"endTime":1587.776,"body":"And they were freaking out over that."},{"startTime":1587.776,"endTime":1595.339,"body":"I think, and once again, you know, we know that my generations and above are still"},{"startTime":1587.776,"endTime":1595.339,"body":"controlling 60 % of the wealth."},{"startTime":1595.339,"endTime":1596.97,"body":"You see what some of them are doing."},{"startTime":1596.97,"endTime":1597.341,"body":"sorry."},{"startTime":1597.341,"endTime":1601.419,"body":"But it is interesting because there are a lot of neutral"},{"startTime":1601.419,"endTime":1610.76,"body":"organizations that just really do want the customers and they want to fulfill their"},{"startTime":1601.419,"endTime":1610.76,"body":"obligations to the customers and make more money and cross-sell and yeah."},{"startTime":1610.76,"endTime":1616.564,"body":"So we're dragging them through all of this mess we're all walking, but I just think it's"},{"startTime":1610.76,"endTime":1616.564,"body":"time to rethink."},{"startTime":1616.564,"endTime":1625.669,"body":"I think part of the problem, even though we have tried, we've been doing access chat for"},{"startTime":1616.564,"endTime":1625.669,"body":"11 years, but I think people are, especially in the States, I'm just gonna speak for my"},{"startTime":1625.669,"endTime":1629.211,"body":"country, people are so confused about what we're even talking about here."},{"startTime":1629.211,"endTime":1639.597,"body":"I bring up accessibility to somebody and I hear, I don't know about those LGBTQ, it's"},{"startTime":1629.211,"endTime":1639.597,"body":"like, wow, I am talking about humans, which by the way, the LGBT, they also get to be"},{"startTime":1639.597,"endTime":1640.227,"body":"included."},{"startTime":1640.227,"endTime":1641.658,"body":"What are you talking about?"},{"startTime":1641.658,"endTime":1643.239,"body":"These are humans."},{"startTime":1643.239,"endTime":1645.551,"body":"So yeah."},{"startTime":1645.551,"endTime":1656.581,"body":"amazing how ultimately what so much comes down to is respect and realizing that everyone"},{"startTime":1645.551,"endTime":1656.581,"body":"is walking the world in their own shoes and that they're having their own burdens and"},{"startTime":1656.581,"endTime":1657.822,"body":"trying their best."},{"startTime":1657.822,"endTime":1662.226,"body":"And we've other people and then that's just such a terrible thing."},{"startTime":1662.226,"endTime":1665.59,"body":"And then it is so much part of the divide that we're facing."},{"startTime":1665.59,"endTime":1672.503,"body":"As far as the as again, what we can do from here, I think there's also a lot of"},{"startTime":1665.59,"endTime":1672.503,"body":"opportunity to"},{"startTime":1672.503,"endTime":1675.264,"body":"find ways to collaborate together, to learn from each other."},{"startTime":1675.264,"endTime":1676.785,"body":"We don't need to reinvent the wheel."},{"startTime":1676.785,"endTime":1678.275,"body":"We can share our best practices."},{"startTime":1678.275,"endTime":1683.029,"body":"We don't need to be building sort of internal best practices for accessibility."},{"startTime":1683.029,"endTime":1689.945,"body":"Yeah, you need that, but we also need to be engaging with the public in the open, trying"},{"startTime":1683.029,"endTime":1689.945,"body":"to share what works for you to learn."},{"startTime":1689.945,"endTime":1697.018,"body":"And it's been so great to be able to see the work of organizations like the UK's"},{"startTime":1689.945,"endTime":1697.018,"body":"Government Digital Services."},{"startTime":1697.062,"endTime":1702.482,"body":"and the work that they've shared, which has really helped guide so many governments around"},{"startTime":1697.062,"endTime":1702.482,"body":"the world in terms of best practices."},{"startTime":1702.482,"endTime":1712.382,"body":"And we need to see a lot more of that type of leadership at a high level where people are"},{"startTime":1702.482,"endTime":1712.382,"body":"sharing their best practices, whether it's design systems or whether it's code-based or"},{"startTime":1712.382,"endTime":1713.702,"body":"whether it's whatever."},{"startTime":1713.702,"endTime":1716.149,"body":"We need to have more people sharing and..."},{"startTime":1716.149,"endTime":1722.177,"body":"And as you said, Mike, through the entire life cycle, the entire life cycle."},{"startTime":1731.665,"endTime":1727.893,"body":"In the beginning of the conversation today, we talked about Bluesky."},{"startTime":1727.893,"endTime":1737.036,"body":"So, and I would like to have your views, Mike, what role the Fediverse and decentralized"},{"startTime":1727.893,"endTime":1737.036,"body":"platforms play in the web going forward."},{"startTime":1737.036,"endTime":1747.176,"body":"And how can we ensure that those platforms keep the pace and are able to be friendly and"},{"startTime":1737.036,"endTime":1747.176,"body":"accessible?"},{"startTime":1747.918,"endTime":1763.01,"body":"I mean, it is interesting and part of the challenges is dealing with the, is just having"},{"startTime":1747.918,"endTime":1763.01,"body":"how, there's so much social media that is run for corporate interests and profit is the"},{"startTime":1763.01,"endTime":1764.353,"body":"only bottom line."},{"startTime":1764.353,"endTime":1767.457,"body":"And I don't think that Bluesky is,"},{"startTime":1767.457,"endTime":1777.903,"body":"out of that realm, but they've certainly opened things up and provided more space for it"},{"startTime":1767.457,"endTime":1777.903,"body":"to be an ecosystem, which Twitter was initially aiming to be when it was first started,"},{"startTime":1777.903,"endTime":1788.449,"body":"but then venture capital got in and it became much more about how do we insidify, this is"},{"startTime":1777.903,"endTime":1788.449,"body":"the Cory Doctorow term, how do we suck as much money out of this as possible or get as"},{"startTime":1788.449,"endTime":1791.441,"body":"much political gain out of this as possible."},{"startTime":1791.441,"endTime":1793.723,"body":"So I do think that there's..."},{"startTime":1793.756,"endTime":1802.527,"body":"a danger with that with any social media platform that is driven primarily by the eyeballs"},{"startTime":1793.756,"endTime":1802.527,"body":"and by advertising."},{"startTime":1802.527,"endTime":1810.574,"body":"But I also think that there's some really good people behind it and that there's an"},{"startTime":1802.527,"endTime":1810.574,"body":"opportunity to get in early enough to say, we've seen how this has failed in the last"},{"startTime":1810.574,"endTime":1814.577,"body":"decade with other social media platforms that we've trusted in."},{"startTime":1814.577,"endTime":1818.296,"body":"We need to be able to work together to make sure that there's"},{"startTime":1818.296,"endTime":1829.246,"body":"proper safety mechanisms and oversight involved to make sure that the ones we're investing"},{"startTime":1818.296,"endTime":1829.246,"body":"in going ahead are as accessible as possible, as true to the user's privacy needs and to"},{"startTime":1829.246,"endTime":1834.513,"body":"their needs of having an ecosystem that does not polarize them as much as possible."},{"startTime":1834.513,"endTime":1836.644,"body":"And so that's what I would hope for."},{"startTime":1836.798,"endTime":1842.037,"body":"Yeah, so I mean, think that it's refreshing to see the…"},{"startTime":1842.037,"endTime":1851.623,"body":"the lack of control of the algorithm, intentional lack of control of the algorithm on"},{"startTime":1842.037,"endTime":1851.623,"body":"Bluesky, hopefully facilitates those things that you just mentioned."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1851.623,"endTime":1861.928,"body":"//almanac.httparchive.org."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1862.033,"endTime":1867.373,"body":"forward slash EN, forward slash 2024, forward slash accessibility."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1867.393,"endTime":1870.253,"body":"We'll put that on our webpage as well."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1870.613,"endTime":1873.933,"body":"Mike, it's been a pleasure talking with you as always."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1873.933,"endTime":1882.393,"body":"We look forward to continuing the conversation on Bluesky with the AccessChat community,"},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1873.933,"endTime":1882.393,"body":"which we hope will continue to grow."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1882.393,"endTime":1885.293,"body":"Everybody come, we're on Tuesday nights, you know."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1885.293,"endTime":1892.105,"body":"I'm going to do that horrible thing and say, like our video, smash the like button,"},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1885.293,"endTime":1892.105,"body":"subscribe to our"},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1892.219,"endTime":1895.173,"body":"podcasts, do all of those things, right?"},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1895.173,"endTime":1904.106,"body":"And also we need to thank our friends from Amazon and Microtext for supporting us and"},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1895.173,"endTime":1904.106,"body":"keeping us on air and accessible."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1904.106,"endTime":1905.231,"body":"Thank you once again."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1905.231,"endTime":1914.755,"body":"quickly add that the discussion element on Bluesky is so important because it's one thing"},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1905.231,"endTime":1914.755,"body":"to go up and have talking heads like us go and and pontificate about different subjects."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1914.755,"endTime":1916.988,"body":"But A, how well did it resound to people?"},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1916.988,"endTime":1918.718,"body":"Also, what are the things that are missing?"},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1918.718,"endTime":1930.375,"body":"And this is the only community I know that has both as that pairing of an online"},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1918.718,"endTime":1930.375,"body":"discussion as well as a podcast as well as an online discussion, which is is unique and"},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1930.375,"endTime":1931.445,"body":"very wonderful."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1931.463,"endTime":1933.788,"body":"Yeah, we want that feedback."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1933.788,"endTime":1937.877,"body":"It's not just for us to say how great we are."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1937.877,"endTime":1943.227,"body":"We want that discussion and that variety, yes."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1943.278,"endTime":1951.894,"body":"just real quickly, that we appreciate the community being patient with us, because a lot"},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1943.278,"endTime":1951.894,"body":"of people, a lot of our guests that we're having on, they don't have Bluesky accounts."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1951.894,"endTime":1959.447,"body":"So they're scrambling to get it and sometimes struggling, because this is their first time"},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1951.894,"endTime":1959.447,"body":"using Bluesky is when they're going to do the access chat."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1959.447,"endTime":1965.353,"body":"So we're growing and learning and following each other and, you know."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1965.353,"endTime":1968.605,"body":"And the platform is growing as much as we like."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1968.605,"endTime":1971.337,"body":"It's not reaching to all corners of the world."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1971.337,"endTime":1976.061,"body":"In many places, people don't really know what blue sky is, and that's the reality."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1976.061,"endTime":1978.858,"body":"Yeah, I had somebody say, are you saying blue?"},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1978.858,"endTime":1980.198,"body":"What are you saying blue sky?"},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1980.198,"endTime":1980.939,"body":"They weren't even sure."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1980.939,"endTime":1982.652,"body":"was like, no, it's just blue sky."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1982.652,"endTime":1984.034,"body":"Is it blue skies?"},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1984.034,"endTime":1984.876,"body":"No, no, no."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1984.876,"endTime":1986.118,"body":"Is it dead blue sky?"},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1986.118,"endTime":1986.387,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1986.387,"endTime":1987.267,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1987.348,"endTime":1992.974,"body":"So, yes, it's going to be a journey, but yes, thank you once again."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1992.974,"endTime":2002.841,"body":"And of course, thank you for creating the Starter Pack, which people can then go and find"},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":1992.974,"endTime":2002.841,"body":"people like yourself and us to be part of our community."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":2002.841,"endTime":2006.192,"body":"So, look forward to continuing this discussion shortly."},{"speaker":"I need to mention the URL for the Web Almanac, which is https","startTime":2006.192,"endTime":2006.757,"body":"so much."}]}