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Hello and welcome
to access chat with.

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Delighted to be joined by
a member of our community today,

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he akurdi of designable
environments.

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There is joining us
from just outside Toronto

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and I'm going to massacre
Mississauga.

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Goodnight

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So, uhm.
It's uh, it's tricky,

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but anyway,
it's great to have you with us.

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Um, can you give us
a little bit of, uh,

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you know what you're working on

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and how you came to be working
in the field of access ability?

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'cause you're you're a great
member of our community.

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You're always contributing,

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but but yeah,
let's let's hear a bit about you

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and how how you came
to work in the field.

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Well, first,
can I just start by

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saying just how
overwhelmingly thrills?

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I am to be an access chat.
I look up to all all of you

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and he's just so love
this program

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and it's such an honor
to be here.

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How did I get into
Accessibility?

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Well, 20 years ago
I was finishing school

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and what we have here

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is I always wanted
to be an architect,

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but I graduated from school
at the end of the 80s

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and it was in University
of the 90s.

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I think. As you may remember,
the economy was bad then too.

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Parents business was struggling

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so I wasn't able
to stay in school

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and so my dream
of being an architect.

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You know that
that didn't happen,

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but I went back
to school in the.

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Late 90s and there is a program
called architectural technology

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and that was actually
a really interesting fit for me

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because I had on
my love of architecture.

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But I also had all this
computer backgrounds.

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My parents were
computer consultants

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and we were some of the first
people in our neighborhood

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who had micro computers.
I don't so the whole idea.

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We using computers
to do architecture

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and do 3D modeling and all
the rest of the text stuff

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and the role of
an architectural technologist

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is between the architects.

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Who's trying to make
the building?

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Who's gonna do
this fabulous thing?

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And the contractor
who has to try to figure out

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how to build this thing
with their attacks,

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describing and it was
really lucky

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because the president
of the company

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and now my business partner

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was the program coordinator
at that school

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and he was actually teaching
a course on universal design.

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Now my passion in architecture
was about sustainability

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and green design,

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and it took his course
because of litter is taken.

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Every course I could take
on that subject.

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And Universal Design seems like
it was an interesting one.

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And the very first day
he had us do two things.

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One we read the one of the laws
in our country.

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The Human Rights Code
which says buildings and spaces

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shall not discriminate against
people with disabilities.

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And so he had us read a story

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from the 70s called
the disabled village.

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An I don't know
if you've read this story,

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but it's a paradigm shift
where the entire village

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are people
who are using wheelchairs now.

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My definition of disability is
not just people inhale chairs.

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It's all different types
of disabilities,

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but this story was what
if everybody is wheelchairs

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and there's just a small
percentage of the population

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who are able bodied

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and so the story
sort of runs through

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how society thinks in the bias
and prejudice people can have.

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In this case it was against the.
Non disabled people.

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And how they built
their environment

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for everybody sitting down?

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Then you wouldn't need
to have 8 foot ceilings

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and Seven foot doors.

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You have a 5 foot door
or maybe even shorter.

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And so I'll be able
bodied people

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are the nondisabled people
had bruises on their foreheads

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from hitting their heads
on the door frame,

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and so instead
of fixing the doors

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and fixing the architecture,
the issued people helmets.

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And gave them body braces that
held him in a crouched position.

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And then you know people
had back problems,

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and they're all kinds
of you know,

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they just fix the building

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and the resistance was why
should we fix the building?

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Or how many of them are there?

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And it was just such a shock
to see it from the other side

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and really feel like
that's wrong

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that it transformed
my world turning point.

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and I was lucky enough.
I graduated that some.

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My professor then offered me
a position

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at designable environments

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and designers is one
of the coolest places to work.

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Honestly, it's like a think tank
about Accessibility.

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It's one of Canada's oldest
iaccessible in universal design

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consulting firms.

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It provides expertise to
the public and private sectors

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on creating built environments

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that meets the needs
of all people,

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including persons with
disabilities and the elderly.

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Our services are like and
that's why it's like working.

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I think tank we get
to see Accessibility

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for different vantage points.

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We work with design,
input and reviews.

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We do facility audits.

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We do Accessibility
compliance reviews.

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We do Accessibility,
standard developments

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and we do education
and training activities.

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So it's such a neat place
to work.

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Our team has a diversity
and depth of experience

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which is really unmatched
in our industry here in Canada.

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Although we have many great
firms that do this work as well,

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but we've been lucky enough
to work locally,

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nationally and internationally
on retail, entertainment,

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corporate, commercial,
healthcare, recreational,

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judicial, religious,
transportation, residential,

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and of course, education.

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We want to keep people safe
and places iaccessible,

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and it's really
not rocket science.

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How to do that,
but it does take some planning

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and considers things
that are not taught

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in most design
or hospitality education.

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So we see possibilities
because desirable environments

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Hindu focusing on Accessibility
for 30 years

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that many people
are just unaware

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of those resources or ideas.

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Our goal is to make
or help to make.

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It possible form for
as many people to be included

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and avoid the typical mistakes
that are often cost a fortune

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to fix after they've been
created than it would be

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if they just built it right
in the 1st place.

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Oh yeah, I know.

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The the the cost
of retrofitting access ability

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is really significant.
I I've got a question

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and this this is actually
I think really interesting.

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You said that you were studying.
Architectural technology.

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I think we are now
in a time where.

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Technology is imbedded
or becoming embedded

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in architecture far more.
No, we've got smart cities,

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but also sort
of smart buildings.

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You know, it's not just sensors,
but actuators.

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There's all sorts of stuff
being included

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in into the fabric of what
we're we're now building.

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How do
architectural technologists

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build access ability?

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Into the buildings
in the future.

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One of the great things
about working design iblees

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I'm not actually working

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as a typical
architectural technologist.

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I get to work exclusively
as an Accessibility specialist,

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but we're working
with the design firms

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or with the building owners.

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What's interesting is,
as you said, is.

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Technology starts
to sort of take cold is.

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There is an advantage sometimes
to having the opportunity

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to see what something
is going to look like

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before you actually
build it, right?

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So the 3D modeling and 3D

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walkthrough that you can take
through building

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some of the time
we're asking people to do.

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His try rendering the video
from a seated position.

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Change mind changing
and I have a lot

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who height
which is like a default

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set for a non disabled
or an ambulatory person.

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And what if it was down lower
and then more interesting

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Lee with some
of our other clients

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and this is like really
just brand new kind of stuff.

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What if you took
a video render or picture

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that you've done
a photo realistic picture?

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You've tried really hard
to make really accurate

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and what if you Blurt it out
like you had vision loss

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so that you could really only
see the light in the dark right?

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How can you navigate
through some paces place?

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Because I think so often and

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This is why
I've been focusing so much,

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I'm trying to get help
to education out.

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Like with the course
that I helped to develop

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with the Royal architecture
ways to do to Canada.

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Um, because so many people
are coming into this field,

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going through training.

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That just assumes
everybody's non disabled.

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And if you have
20 and 30 year olds

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who are in charge of design,
then all they're going to do

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is reflect
what's happening around them,

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so they're not really
going to understand.

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And that's also why I started
running what we call

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our Accessibility boot camp

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to really
get people to confront.

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Oh my gosh,
I didn't realize how much bias

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I had about what people
with disabilities

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could or should or can do,
or would want to do.

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And then really tried to dispel
the idea that a disability

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is something that's going
to happen to somebody else.

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Like maybe it's going to happen
to your grandparents.

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Or maybe it's going to happen
to somebody that you know,

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but it's never going to
happen to you.

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And if you think about it,
the really the whole premise

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of how we design right now
is really strange,

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because we're all 100% of us.

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If we're not born
with a disability.

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We're an illness, accident,
or aging away from getting one.

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So.

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It's better designed design,
flexible iaccessible inclusive

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design that works for everybody
over there

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course of their entire life.

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And so technology
can help us do that.

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Sometimes technology
can get into the way

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because architects will say
or building owners will say well

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if our building is confusing
to navigate or airport

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is confusing to navigate,

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we won't try to make sure
we have better architecture.

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Better design will try to get
some technology solution,

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will put something
on a smart phone.

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And the problem
with this type of thinking,

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of course is that often
non disabled people

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are some of the poorest
in our society.

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It's really hard to get a job
often because offices

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and buildings or workplaces
are not accessible.

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So saying to somebody here
we have a solution for that

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requires you to have smart phone

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with a data plan
to people who are,

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you know and associated
economic position

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to not be able
to afford those things.

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Be a barrier in and of itself.

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Yeah, so you you've got double
double exclusion.

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You've got digital exclusion,

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you've got the exclusion
of inaccessibility,

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and Tony.
I know you had a question.

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Yes, I know that
it is going to have it here.

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Fine finally,
finally meet values like to know

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know the face behind the tweets

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so it's great
to have you here today.

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I've been, I'm over I'm at.

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Just over the years
have a few colleagues of mine

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who study architecture
and there's plenty of events

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and conventions on architecture.

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How do you see them on that part
of industry addressing?

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Assess ability is something that
they often talk at Congress is,

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or it so we prefer to talk
about good design and awards.

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I know what's the story.

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Yeah, it's it's interesting
that you say that we often see

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Accessibility in conferences
dealt with almost the same

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as the way it's dealt with
in the design process.

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It's usually done
as an afterthought,

249
00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:09,890
or is a sideshow as opposed
to what I was just saying about

250
00:12:09,890 --> 00:12:11,240
if the human experience

251
00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,860
is a lifetime
of changing needs and abilities,

252
00:12:13,860 --> 00:12:16,810
then of course Accessibility
is integral to good design

253
00:12:17,940 --> 00:12:20,510
and This is why
when I did my text talk.

254
00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:23,650
A year ago
and I published the article

255
00:12:23,650 --> 00:12:26,760
that top insider secrets to
what's stopping full inclusion

256
00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,220
in the built environment
and how you can help fix them.

257
00:12:31,230 --> 00:12:32,980
They were really like
almost 6 secrets.

258
00:12:32,980 --> 00:12:34,340
I mean,
clearly there not secrets,

259
00:12:34,340 --> 00:12:35,960
but they feel like
their secrets,

260
00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:37,910
'cause nobody seems to know
about them

261
00:12:38,690 --> 00:12:41,050
and I go through sort of
what those secrets were,

262
00:12:41,050 --> 00:12:43,870
and then for things
that fundamentally

263
00:12:43,870 --> 00:12:46,960
I think would change design
if we could focus on it

264
00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:49,420
before we hired
the architectural team.

265
00:12:49,420 --> 00:12:51,370
So what it needs to be done
pre design.

266
00:12:52,010 --> 00:12:54,110
To set everything up
for success.

267
00:12:57,850 --> 00:12:59,890
I can give you
a story of a hotel

268
00:12:59,890 --> 00:13:02,920
that was built a new hotel
that was built in Quark

269
00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:08,130
an and there were
there was a couple

270
00:13:08,130 --> 00:13:12,180
and they
were able to do it to get in.

271
00:13:12,180 --> 00:13:13,400
The person was in a wheelchair

272
00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,350
but then they were not able
to get out.

273
00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:18,930
Because of the way
out the door was built

274
00:13:18,930 --> 00:13:21,980
and then they had to wait
for someone to come in.

275
00:13:22,700 --> 00:13:26,230
Now take order
all infrastructure of the door

276
00:13:26,230 --> 00:13:30,380
for the person to live.
And I also know, um,

277
00:13:31,230 --> 00:13:34,910
people who will bring who take
their own gear on Holidays.

278
00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,100
To make sure that the bad
is at a certain size.

279
00:13:39,860 --> 00:13:42,580
So they know I need this
to do the adjustments

280
00:13:42,580 --> 00:13:44,370
'cause nobody's going to
do them for me,

281
00:13:44,370 --> 00:13:49,910
so people would travel,
have all their own personal axe

282
00:13:49,910 --> 00:13:52,670
to deal with
with an accessible toilet

283
00:13:52,670 --> 00:13:57,280
or an assessable bat so people
end up to come up with this

284
00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,220
Skype kind of solutions
at the same time,

285
00:14:00,220 --> 00:14:02,920
I'm almost sure that when you
are studying architecture

286
00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:04,430
you are
really told

287
00:14:04,430 --> 00:14:06,650
about the trends,
the social trends.

288
00:14:07,420 --> 00:14:10,810
An aging is is one of them,
so it's quite impressive out.

289
00:14:10,810 --> 00:14:15,560
They don't look more to the to
the social side of architecture

290
00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:17,260
and to the to the Megatrends.

291
00:14:18,590 --> 00:14:21,690
Absolutely, and I think like
that's what struck me

292
00:14:21,690 --> 00:14:24,970
is that when I was studying
so much about sustainability,

293
00:14:24,970 --> 00:14:28,240
we often looked at demographics
and so

294
00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,260
if you look at how many
particularly first world

295
00:14:31,260 --> 00:14:33,110
countries are rapidly aging,

296
00:14:33,110 --> 00:14:36,470
I mean in Canada
we have more than 1000 people

297
00:14:36,470 --> 00:14:40,040
a day turning 65 in the states.

298
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:45,060
It's 10,000 people a day,
turning 65 like

299
00:14:45,060 --> 00:14:48,490
if you wanted to to like go
where the market is.

300
00:14:49,340 --> 00:14:53,100
You wanna go towards,
um, an end?

301
00:14:53,100 --> 00:14:54,660
You want to do sustainability.

302
00:14:54,660 --> 00:14:57,510
You want to be going towards
aging place?

303
00:14:57,510 --> 00:15:01,020
Generational housing.
You want to have adaptable,

304
00:15:01,020 --> 00:15:04,600
inflexible housing that people
can move into in their 40s.

305
00:15:05,300 --> 00:15:07,649
But still have the parents come
and visit them,

306
00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:10,960
or if their child is born
with a disability still,

307
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:12,830
you know, be able
to stay in the communities

308
00:15:12,830 --> 00:15:15,270
that they love
and this is, I think,

309
00:15:15,270 --> 00:15:20,890
why particularly I was focusing
on the pre design solutions.

310
00:15:20,890 --> 00:15:22,140
It's two option.

311
00:15:22,140 --> 00:15:24,640
Would because we're not thinking
about Accessibility

312
00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,030
in something what we call in the
industry functional programming.

313
00:15:28,030 --> 00:15:29,640
And that's the stage
where we figure out

314
00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:31,050
what all of the different
room types

315
00:15:31,050 --> 00:15:32,290
we're going to have our

316
00:15:32,290 --> 00:15:34,870
and how much space
is needed for each room.

317
00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,310
So if you need to have
a turn circle

318
00:15:37,310 --> 00:15:38,690
or the clear floor space

319
00:15:38,690 --> 00:15:40,840
to access something
or any space,

320
00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,830
or or how high can you reach
in some place?

321
00:15:43,830 --> 00:15:46,000
This is where you should be
thinking about it,

322
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:47,490
and because
it's not typically done,

323
00:15:47,490 --> 00:15:49,790
people just use
the same sort of solutions

324
00:15:50,470 --> 00:15:52,080
in the feasibility study stage,

325
00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,650
which is also wanted
to pre design stages.

326
00:15:54,650 --> 00:15:56,700
You're figuring out
where you're going to build

327
00:15:56,700 --> 00:15:58,000
or where you're going

328
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,320
to which building
you're going to pick to.

329
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:01,590
Maybe rent space in.

330
00:16:01,590 --> 00:16:03,830
So this is something
that you could even think about

331
00:16:03,830 --> 00:16:06,000
is the building we're moving
into even accessible

332
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,290
so we can hire staff
with disabilities.

333
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:10,730
You have to put together
a budget.

334
00:16:10,730 --> 00:16:12,340
You have to select your sight,

335
00:16:12,340 --> 00:16:15,590
your picking features
so that you can make sure

336
00:16:15,590 --> 00:16:18,820
you can afford things later,
like power door operators,

337
00:16:18,820 --> 00:16:22,090
assisted listing systems
and like hoists.

338
00:16:22,090 --> 00:16:24,900
If you're going to have
an adult change place right

339
00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,500
and then furniture fixture
in equipment list,

340
00:16:28,500 --> 00:16:30,190
these are the things
that populate our space,

341
00:16:30,190 --> 00:16:31,440
like this
is heartbreaking for me.

342
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,600
Sometimes I'll be working
with a braid architecture team

343
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:35,870
and they build the building

344
00:16:35,870 --> 00:16:37,850
and we actually make it
pretty accessible

345
00:16:37,850 --> 00:16:40,600
and then I go visit it after.
Opens in the client.

346
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,080
Unfortunately didn't review
their furniture

347
00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,020
fixtures equipment
list for Accessibility

348
00:16:46,020 --> 00:16:48,250
and so it's been
completely sabotaged,

349
00:16:48,250 --> 00:16:50,040
so the building itself
is pretty accessible,

350
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,330
but nothing in its the photo
copiers are not accessible.

351
00:16:53,330 --> 00:16:55,730
You know the seating areas that
they've carefully arranged for.

352
00:16:55,730 --> 00:16:57,550
People are not accessible,

353
00:16:57,550 --> 00:16:59,280
and then there's a really
powerful tool

354
00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:01,120
that we use for green design

355
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,590
called Accessibility
or commissioning.

356
00:17:04,210 --> 00:17:06,180
So in green design
you Commission of building

357
00:17:06,180 --> 00:17:07,390
at the end

358
00:17:07,390 --> 00:17:09,700
where the people
have promised that the.

359
00:17:09,700 --> 00:17:11,060
Heating and air conditioning.

360
00:17:11,060 --> 00:17:15,080
All the systems in the building
are going to be super efficient

361
00:17:15,730 --> 00:17:18,260
so that the operating POS
don't cost very much

362
00:17:18,260 --> 00:17:19,770
and if the commissioning shows

363
00:17:19,770 --> 00:17:21,720
that it's not
what's been promised,

364
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,420
then they have to fix it.
So what we've been trying to do

365
00:17:24,420 --> 00:17:26,300
is we were working with
some of their clients,

366
00:17:26,300 --> 00:17:28,500
adding Accessibility
commissioning

367
00:17:28,500 --> 00:17:30,750
as a part of the contract
for the build,

368
00:17:30,750 --> 00:17:32,620
so whatever
Accessibility requirements

369
00:17:32,620 --> 00:17:35,400
have been placed
as a part of the contract.

370
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,190
If there are not at the end

371
00:17:37,190 --> 00:17:39,840
if you don't do
a commissioning or an audit.

372
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,990
And you're not there then.
Somebody else has to fix it.

373
00:17:42,990 --> 00:17:44,750
It's not.
Doesn't come back to the client

374
00:17:44,750 --> 00:17:47,380
to have to tear it out
and fix it later, so those are.

375
00:17:47,380 --> 00:17:49,760
Those are four
really powerful things

376
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,030
that if you're thinking
about like right now,

377
00:17:52,030 --> 00:17:53,770
I'm thinking I might
want to do something.

378
00:17:53,770 --> 00:17:55,490
Start thinking Accessibility,

379
00:17:55,490 --> 00:17:58,680
'cause That's the time
to make it the most affordable

380
00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,170
and the least expensive.

381
00:18:00,170 --> 00:18:02,780
Difficult to achieve,
right, right?

382
00:18:02,780 --> 00:18:03,980
Anthea?

383
00:18:03,980 --> 00:18:06,410
The thing that always
confuses me

384
00:18:06,410 --> 00:18:09,850
is why aren't we designing
for humans?

385
00:18:09,850 --> 00:18:14,070
Like you know all humans
and I had August,

386
00:18:14,070 --> 00:18:16,800
the law, the ringtones
on my show,

387
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,770
human potential at work
a few years ago

388
00:18:18,770 --> 00:18:21,970
and he is a designer of very,
very talented designer.

389
00:18:21,970 --> 00:18:26,140
He is also an individual with
a pretty significant disability

390
00:18:26,140 --> 00:18:29,460
and he feels that
as a designer himself

391
00:18:29,460 --> 00:18:32,870
and award winning designer,
he designed Xbox.

392
00:18:32,870 --> 00:18:36,120
He worked for Pinterest.
I mean he's very brilliant man

393
00:18:36,120 --> 00:18:40,240
and he said
that he feels that it is.

394
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:41,440
It is, you know,

395
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,520
people with disability
as no was saying in this.

396
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,060
In Tony was saying
they they learn

397
00:18:46,060 --> 00:18:49,220
to try to accommodate themselves
because they have no choice

398
00:18:49,220 --> 00:18:53,460
but he feels
that it is a design flaw

399
00:18:53,460 --> 00:18:58,850
that designers are not designing
with all humans in mind

400
00:18:58,850 --> 00:19:02,480
and so deciding
that certain parts of humans

401
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:04,970
were going to design for them.
'cause it's easier

402
00:19:04,970 --> 00:19:07,830
and we know how to do it
in our little policies

403
00:19:07,830 --> 00:19:10,520
and processes that
we've created work for them

404
00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,030
but not designing
for our extreme users.

405
00:19:13,030 --> 00:19:14,650
I think is a loss
not only to those people

406
00:19:14,650 --> 00:19:15,860
that aren't included,

407
00:19:15,860 --> 00:19:18,140
but it also it is a loss,
I think,

408
00:19:18,140 --> 00:19:22,580
of opportunity of creativeness
of innovation in true inclusion.

409
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:26,140
So you know what I know
your work

410
00:19:26,140 --> 00:19:27,770
is trying to help in our work

411
00:19:27,770 --> 00:19:30,310
is trying to help breakdown
these barriers,

412
00:19:30,310 --> 00:19:33,640
but I would have
to say to designers,

413
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,280
why are you not designing
for all humans

414
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:40,480
and why are you deciding
that some human beings

415
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,420
don't deserve
to be designed for?

416
00:19:42,420 --> 00:19:43,930
and I understand
a lot of designers

417
00:19:43,930 --> 00:19:45,170
would come back and say,

418
00:19:45,170 --> 00:19:47,370
well, we're doing it the way
we were taught to do it.

419
00:19:47,370 --> 00:19:50,070
Yeah, but at some point
if you wanted to be a designer,

420
00:19:50,070 --> 00:19:53,010
I think you have to want
to make sure

421
00:19:53,010 --> 00:19:55,110
that you're designing
for all humans.

422
00:19:56,910 --> 00:20:00,180
Found your gonna like
that question so it's gonna say.

423
00:20:01,590 --> 00:20:03,320
Yeah, it's amazing to me

424
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,310
whether I'm, uh and this is
part of the reason

425
00:20:05,310 --> 00:20:07,070
why I'm trying
to get into schools,

426
00:20:07,070 --> 00:20:10,210
and if I can, and the very
first semester you know,

427
00:20:10,210 --> 00:20:12,710
and if I can and
the very first couple of weeks.

428
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,850
Because when I talk to I'm one
of the ways that I connected

429
00:20:16,850 --> 00:20:19,180
with Royal Architectural
Institute of Canada,

430
00:20:19,180 --> 00:20:22,100
also known as the REI.
See now, which is sort of like

431
00:20:22,100 --> 00:20:24,480
the American Institute
for architects.

432
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,990
Or the EA was that they held
a conference

433
00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:31,490
and they let me come in and do
my Accessibility boot camp and.

434
00:20:31,490 --> 00:20:32,880
I think with these conferences

435
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:34,820
all the most
senior people go right,

436
00:20:35,340 --> 00:20:38,150
and so these are people who've
been doing architecture for 1340

437
00:20:38,150 --> 00:20:43,850
or 50 years or so in the look
of shock on their face

438
00:20:43,850 --> 00:20:46,130
when I started talking
about a lifetime

439
00:20:46,130 --> 00:20:47,890
of changing needs and abilities,

440
00:20:47,890 --> 00:20:50,040
and I'm going to show you
the graphic that.

441
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:52,750
On Tuesday,
I'll show you the graphic

442
00:20:52,750 --> 00:20:55,200
that I used to do that with
and the look of.

443
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,940
Oh my God, and that's
overwhelming the response I get

444
00:20:59,940 --> 00:21:02,690
is I never thought
about it like that.

445
00:21:02,690 --> 00:21:07,220
You know, there's so much
as we talked about earlier bias,

446
00:21:07,220 --> 00:21:08,660
but there's also
so much assumption

447
00:21:08,660 --> 00:21:11,300
about what a disability means.

448
00:21:11,300 --> 00:21:17,320
So you ask me to tell the story
so I have multiple disabilities,

449
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,440
but I wasn't diagnosed
with my disabilities

450
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:22,960
until the very last year
of high school

451
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:24,730
because I was very bright.

452
00:21:24,730 --> 00:21:29,010
So growing up I was always
in the advanced enrich programs.

453
00:21:29,010 --> 00:21:30,680
And in the 70s and 80s.

454
00:21:32,070 --> 00:21:34,880
It never occurred to somebody
that I I

455
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,310
is a bright person
could have a disability

456
00:21:37,310 --> 00:21:40,260
so it couldn't spell anything.
My spelling was always bad.

457
00:21:42,970 --> 00:21:46,019
I'd write a story and it was
a brilliant story and I lose 50%

458
00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:50,390
because this is pre computers
so I lose 50% mark

459
00:21:50,390 --> 00:21:52,090
because I couldn't
spell something

460
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,040
and I would sometimes
have trouble with math.

461
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,150
I would switch numbers in math

462
00:21:57,150 --> 00:21:58,590
and I want
to be sort of doing really well

463
00:21:58,590 --> 00:22:00,950
and then all of a sudden
I kind of go sideways

464
00:22:00,950 --> 00:22:04,580
solving a problem and maybe
like your processes perfectly,

465
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,090
but you know something wrong
with you

466
00:22:07,710 --> 00:22:10,570
so it was always presented like
you're not trying hard enough.

467
00:22:10,570 --> 00:22:12,600
And actually what I was doing
was I.

468
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,460
Actually, come up with
some of my own accommodations

469
00:22:15,460 --> 00:22:18,210
and I kind of had
a lot of my disability

470
00:22:18,970 --> 00:22:20,740
and it wasn't till very
last year of high school

471
00:22:20,740 --> 00:22:22,640
that it finally became aware

472
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,280
or some teacher
just put their foot down

473
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,520
and said we have to fix all this
and somethings wrong.

474
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,110
You're an we discovered.
I have a form of dyslexia

475
00:22:30,970 --> 00:22:34,170
then I need to wear glasses
and I have hearing loss.

476
00:22:34,170 --> 00:22:35,830
So yeah
I wasn't hearing everything

477
00:22:35,830 --> 00:22:37,280
that was happening
in the classroom

478
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,640
when I couldn't see everything
that was happening on the board

479
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,700
and I wasn't able to express
myself or spell.

480
00:22:42,700 --> 00:22:44,570
Thing so I can have great ideas.

481
00:22:45,300 --> 00:22:48,420
But in the 70s and 80s
he didn't have computers,

482
00:22:48,420 --> 00:22:51,290
so that is a combination
that has allowed me now

483
00:22:51,290 --> 00:22:54,220
as an adult
to teach at University

484
00:22:54,220 --> 00:22:56,880
to become a professional
to present at conferences,

485
00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,310
to write articles, and that part
of my disability can disappear.

486
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,740
Although my staff has to help me
with my social media.

487
00:23:07,070 --> 00:23:08,780
So I think like the UM.

488
00:23:09,530 --> 00:23:12,070
The fundamental fact
that is not a part of education,

489
00:23:12,070 --> 00:23:14,810
like if you looked
at manufacturing, if there was.

490
00:23:14,810 --> 00:23:16,270
If we were creating a product

491
00:23:16,270 --> 00:23:18,170
that was fundamentally flawed
in some way.

492
00:23:18,170 --> 00:23:20,840
So in this case
not designing for people.

493
00:23:21,890 --> 00:23:24,600
If we were to look
at manufacturing process

494
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,570
that was creating a defective
product, we would go back

495
00:23:27,570 --> 00:23:31,170
and figure out how to fix
the manufacturing process.

496
00:23:31,170 --> 00:23:32,770
Redesign what was happening.

497
00:23:33,790 --> 00:23:35,480
That's not happening
in education,

498
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,700
so everybody had goes through
education,

499
00:23:37,700 --> 00:23:39,140
keeps coming out the other side

500
00:23:39,140 --> 00:23:42,750
with all the same flaws
and biases and Misunderstandings

501
00:23:42,750 --> 00:23:47,270
and lack of awareness of all
of the amazing opportunities.

502
00:23:47,270 --> 00:23:49,580
So one of the ways
I like to describe this

503
00:23:49,580 --> 00:23:51,410
just to make it
more relatable, is.

504
00:23:52,100 --> 00:23:54,100
Not in Canada
or when I was growing up,

505
00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:55,620
I give a lot of
international travel,

506
00:23:55,620 --> 00:23:57,730
but most of the kids
that I was with growing up

507
00:23:57,730 --> 00:23:59,330
with only ever went to Florida.

508
00:24:00,170 --> 00:24:02,680
So if you said
I'm going to the states

509
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,180
you meant you were going
to Disneyland in Florida.

510
00:24:05,930 --> 00:24:10,860
So my analogy is what if you
were trying to go to California?

511
00:24:12,410 --> 00:24:15,870
But if if you said to you know
your travel planner,

512
00:24:15,870 --> 00:24:19,870
I want to go to the states.
And they just assumed that meant

513
00:24:19,870 --> 00:24:22,720
you were going to Disneyland
or Disney World.

514
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,920
Sorry, so they booked
everything like you

515
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,130
were going there and then.

516
00:24:27,130 --> 00:24:29,750
If you got to the airport
and saw your flight

517
00:24:29,750 --> 00:24:32,100
was going to Florida
and then said, well, no.

518
00:24:32,100 --> 00:24:35,250
Actually I wanted to go
to Disneyland in California

519
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:37,870
like that's a whole
different trip

520
00:24:37,870 --> 00:24:41,920
and it doesn't necessarily cost
more to do one versus the other.

521
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,400
But if I decide at the airport

522
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,800
so for example
at the start of design,

523
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,849
I didn't want to go to Florida.
I wanted to go to California.

524
00:24:51,590 --> 00:24:54,970
And added costs so you can see
where people start to think.

525
00:24:54,970 --> 00:24:56,570
Accessibility so expensive.

526
00:24:57,100 --> 00:24:59,730
No, it's when did you
start thinking about it

527
00:24:59,730 --> 00:25:03,800
or worse you fly to Florida
and then realize

528
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,560
Oh no, I meant I want to
Disneyland in California

529
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,620
and then try to rebook
their vacation.

530
00:25:08,620 --> 00:25:12,050
So I think
the education part is key.

531
00:25:13,870 --> 00:25:15,880
Yeah, and it's it's.

532
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,250
It's not the cost
of access ability,

533
00:25:18,250 --> 00:25:22,220
it's the cost of failing to plan
to deliver excess ability

534
00:25:23,070 --> 00:25:28,660
that is often what is prohibited
is retrofitting is is expensive.

535
00:25:28,660 --> 00:25:32,220
You know you booking that.
Flight at the last minute.

536
00:25:32,220 --> 00:25:35,920
Changing your flights
from from Florida to California.

537
00:25:36,570 --> 00:25:40,810
That's gonna cost you a packet.
So totally agree.

538
00:25:40,810 --> 00:25:43,270
I think it's
a really nice analogy

539
00:25:44,030 --> 00:25:47,710
and I also totally relate
with the whole late diagnosis

540
00:25:48,340 --> 00:25:52,640
thing too.
So.

541
00:25:54,340 --> 00:25:58,970
How do we inculcate
this better into?

542
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,180
In terms of architecture
and Design,

543
00:26:03,180 --> 00:26:07,540
'cause actually in in the UK?
It is taught.

544
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,390
Uhm, but what's interesting
is that it doesn't

545
00:26:11,390 --> 00:26:14,880
necessarily filter
through into the housing stock,

546
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:19,340
so we a few months back
had Anna Dixon

547
00:26:19,340 --> 00:26:23,180
on from the Center
for aging better,

548
00:26:24,090 --> 00:26:27,100
and she mentioned several things
that you just mentioned

549
00:26:27,100 --> 00:26:30,700
about housing where you can
agent place that design

550
00:26:30,700 --> 00:26:34,500
so that you don't have
to move and

551
00:26:34,500 --> 00:26:38,990
and you could design a building
that is flexible enough

552
00:26:38,990 --> 00:26:41,890
to be converted to meet your
needs as you go through life.

553
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,640
How how do we inculcate
that into the the learning

554
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,940
and more importantly,
into the mainstream?

555
00:26:49,940 --> 00:26:53,650
Because although people might
learn it, they don't apply it.

556
00:26:54,380 --> 00:26:56,560
So the housing stock
that gets built

557
00:26:57,130 --> 00:27:00,110
is for the most part small.

558
00:27:00,110 --> 00:27:07,390
It's on multiple stories,
multiple levels with difficulty,

559
00:27:08,050 --> 00:27:10,570
narrow corridors
that you'll have difficulty

560
00:27:10,570 --> 00:27:12,170
getting through doors.

561
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,870
Some of that
I'm sure relates to cost.

562
00:27:18,770 --> 00:27:22,010
Because it's cheaper
to build smaller

563
00:27:22,610 --> 00:27:28,260
and you guys on the other side
of the Atlantic

564
00:27:29,410 --> 00:27:33,150
have much more generous space
in your buildings

565
00:27:33,150 --> 00:27:37,820
than than we do here.
Generally 'cause we like quaint.

566
00:27:39,550 --> 00:27:47,470
For uh, for that,
read small and cramped, but uhm.

567
00:27:47,470 --> 00:27:52,470
But there also.
It's how how do we change that?

568
00:27:52,470 --> 00:27:55,790
Because I I do think
that there needs to be a change

569
00:27:55,790 --> 00:27:57,110
in some things have changed

570
00:27:57,110 --> 00:27:58,810
so that you go
to a new house now.

571
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,280
In the UK. The socket
will be at waist height.

572
00:28:04,980 --> 00:28:07,930
So all of the electric sockets
will be at waist height

573
00:28:07,930 --> 00:28:10,500
so that they've made
that change right?

574
00:28:10,500 --> 00:28:13,040
So they're not on
the floor anymore.

575
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,310
You don't?
You don't have to reach down to.

576
00:28:17,170 --> 00:28:19,010
Yeah, they're not
wheelchair inaccessible

577
00:28:19,010 --> 00:28:20,240
there at waist height.

578
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,700
Now sometimes
that drives me crazy

579
00:28:23,700 --> 00:28:26,570
because I've got wires
hanging up my walls,

580
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:28,830
but I understand
why it's done so.

581
00:28:32,010 --> 00:28:33,990
The deep.

582
00:28:33,990 --> 00:28:36,060
Yeah, he didn't think
about what that meant.

583
00:28:36,060 --> 00:28:37,490
They just raise the plug.

584
00:28:37,490 --> 00:28:41,030
That's not good design either,
and I think like to your point,

585
00:28:41,030 --> 00:28:44,520
there's a couple of things
that I want to unpack there one.

586
00:28:45,650 --> 00:28:48,920
Yes, discrimination
cost less than the way

587
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:50,700
we've been designing
is discriminate

588
00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:54,620
Tori against the largest
minority group that we have

589
00:28:55,190 --> 00:28:57,400
an it's
the one minority group.

590
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,220
We are almost all of us
going to join.

591
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:02,660
So it makes no sense.

592
00:29:02,660 --> 00:29:04,200
I mean,
even if you could justify

593
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,700
discriminating against
the largest minority group.

594
00:29:07,310 --> 00:29:09,180
But if imagine
if you were to say

595
00:29:09,180 --> 00:29:11,560
this housing
discriminates against,

596
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,180
you, know, fill in the blank
for any other minority group

597
00:29:14,180 --> 00:29:17,520
and the people would lose
their minds, right?

598
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,320
Like if you had
a racial minority

599
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,940
if you had a religious group
at a particular ethnicity.

600
00:29:23,730 --> 00:29:26,460
Like people would lose it
if you said

601
00:29:26,460 --> 00:29:29,450
that these type of housing
is discriminate Tori

602
00:29:29,450 --> 00:29:33,150
and so it's been
really important for me

603
00:29:33,150 --> 00:29:35,650
and it's been
a really big change

604
00:29:35,650 --> 00:29:37,570
to really start using that word.

605
00:29:37,570 --> 00:29:40,510
It's not a nice word.
I don't like to have to use it.

606
00:29:40,510 --> 00:29:41,800
But when people
are saying to me,

607
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:43,400
but that's how we always do it.

608
00:29:44,740 --> 00:29:48,400
Or yes, it might cost more.
Um?

609
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,090
The way we've been
doing it is wrong.

610
00:29:52,970 --> 00:29:55,770
And who wants to be associated
with discrimination?

611
00:29:55,770 --> 00:29:59,080
Whose brand?
We are proud to discriminate

612
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:00,690
against our largest
minority group

613
00:30:00,690 --> 00:30:02,990
like who wants to say that,
you know?

614
00:30:02,990 --> 00:30:07,240
I think there's a I keep trying
to sell this to developers

615
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,520
is an enormous
opportunity to get ahead.

616
00:30:10,220 --> 00:30:11,760
This is a business opportunity

617
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,350
to to say we're doing
something innovative here.

618
00:30:15,350 --> 00:30:16,840
We're going to take care of you

619
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,400
for your entire life
for your family life,

620
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,520
your loved ones, your coworkers
were going to make sure

621
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,520
you have a place to live in
the neighborhoods that you love.

622
00:30:26,860 --> 00:30:29,460
For as long as you
possibly can,

623
00:30:29,460 --> 00:30:32,290
you know in the states
they have started.

624
00:30:32,290 --> 00:30:34,050
I've seen some developers
marketing it

625
00:30:34,050 --> 00:30:35,730
as generational housing

626
00:30:35,730 --> 00:30:38,130
and Florida's
got some amazing stuff

627
00:30:38,130 --> 00:30:40,590
that's been happening
in Winnipeg

628
00:30:40,590 --> 00:30:44,240
or just outside Winnipeg.
We have a Bridgewater community

629
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,740
where half of the development
was developed.

630
00:30:46,740 --> 00:30:51,800
Is all agent place and visible
and adaptable housing know,

631
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:53,090
step entry.

632
00:30:53,090 --> 00:30:55,590
Other types of features
and it's beautiful

633
00:30:56,110 --> 00:30:57,430
and it was done so well.

634
00:30:57,430 --> 00:30:59,930
My designers that
that was the housing

635
00:30:59,930 --> 00:31:02,170
that sold out first
in that development,

636
00:31:02,170 --> 00:31:04,280
so it's not that
it has to look ugly,

637
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,110
although people who haven't
been trained well in it

638
00:31:07,110 --> 00:31:09,020
will assume it's going
to be institutional,

639
00:31:09,020 --> 00:31:10,400
or it can be horrible.

640
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,970
Or like in your situation
where they didn't think about

641
00:31:12,970 --> 00:31:16,210
raising it up to waist level,
just means lots of wires

642
00:31:16,210 --> 00:31:18,630
which everybody
is going to think is ugly.

643
00:31:18,630 --> 00:31:20,790
There are some costs
associated with it

644
00:31:20,790 --> 00:31:22,480
if you're going to
put power door operators.

645
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,950
If you're going to have assisted
listening, there are some costs.

646
00:31:25,950 --> 00:31:30,770
But if that's the cost of doing
business right of wider door,

647
00:31:30,770 --> 00:31:32,740
should be the typical size door,

648
00:31:32,740 --> 00:31:36,400
then the size door reason
right now is the wrong size,

649
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:37,630
but cost less.

650
00:31:37,630 --> 00:31:40,370
Well, let's change
the typical door

651
00:31:40,370 --> 00:31:42,320
and then that becomes
by volume

652
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,070
the less at least
expensive door to use.

653
00:31:45,070 --> 00:31:46,720
So I think there's
a whole bunch of stuff

654
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:48,930
about how people
think about it,

655
00:31:49,580 --> 00:31:53,580
what examples they've seen
an then really challenging them.

656
00:31:55,270 --> 00:31:56,990
Sticking to what
we've always been doing

657
00:31:56,990 --> 00:31:59,570
is not the way out of this,

658
00:31:59,570 --> 00:32:01,620
and it really
is discrimination, so.

659
00:32:03,310 --> 00:32:05,050
Wholeheartedly agree.

660
00:32:05,050 --> 00:32:07,260
I think that there's
a couple of things

661
00:32:07,260 --> 00:32:10,460
I want to tie in before we close
'cause we're coming to a close.

662
00:32:12,660 --> 00:32:14,880
I know time flies
when you're having fun,

663
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:19,180
so um, the regulation
is really important

664
00:32:19,180 --> 00:32:21,920
because regulation done
in the right way.

665
00:32:22,870 --> 00:32:26,170
Can start changing the way
the industry behaves

666
00:32:26,170 --> 00:32:29,530
and we've and we talked
before about.

667
00:32:31,650 --> 00:32:33,790
You were interested
in sustainability.

668
00:32:33,790 --> 00:32:36,950
I've I have a personal
hobby horse so I like to ride

669
00:32:36,950 --> 00:32:40,010
which is tying the whole idea
of sustainability,

670
00:32:40,010 --> 00:32:44,350
inaccessibility together,
and what you talked about was,

671
00:32:44,350 --> 00:32:47,130
yes, it's cheap
to do to discriminate.

672
00:32:47,130 --> 00:32:51,140
Actually it's not, but but the
cost is borne by someone else,

673
00:32:51,140 --> 00:32:52,790
so it's an external AT,
and

674
00:32:52,790 --> 00:32:57,360
This is why I keep
referring to in excess ability

675
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,470
as being like pollution
because.

676
00:33:01,310 --> 00:33:05,360
Is the the the polluters
not paying at the moment?

677
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,060
So we need to shift the cost
of that externality

678
00:33:09,060 --> 00:33:12,510
back onto the people that are
causing the cost to society.

679
00:33:13,250 --> 00:33:15,520
And when we do that
through regulation

680
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:19,930
and do it in a fair manner
then it will absolutely start

681
00:33:19,930 --> 00:33:21,690
changing the way
that things get delivered

682
00:33:21,690 --> 00:33:23,530
and hopefully will do it
in a way

683
00:33:23,530 --> 00:33:28,860
that is also pleasing on the eye
and designed beautifully

684
00:33:28,860 --> 00:33:32,220
because it can be we can
do beautiful inclusive design.

685
00:33:32,220 --> 00:33:34,870
It's possible people so, um.

686
00:33:36,250 --> 00:33:41,470
Rant over just to say
that we need

687
00:33:41,470 --> 00:33:45,990
to think Microlink Barclays
access and my cleartext

688
00:33:45,990 --> 00:33:49,060
for keeping us
on their keeping as accessible

689
00:33:49,060 --> 00:33:52,930
and look forward to you
joining us on Twitter

690
00:33:52,930 --> 00:33:55,110
for the chat on Tuesday.
Thank you so much.

691
00:33:55,890 --> 00:33:57,789
Thank you so much again
for having me.

692
00:33:59,780 --> 00:34:04,640
Keep talking. Love having years
are part of our community.

693
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,880
Thank you so much guys,
thank you.