An Emmy, A Dream, And A Dance Class

A dance class can be a mirror or a wall, and too many families know what it feels like to be shut out. We sit down with filmmaker and former dancer Dan Watt to unpack how his Emmy-winning documentary Everybody Dance came to life, why he searched for months to find the right inclusive ballet school, and what “access” looks like when it’s built into the culture instead of bolted on at the end. 

Dan walks us through the choices that shape ethical disability representation in film: earning trust slowly, showing up consistently, and letting disabled kids and their parents tell their stories in their own words and on their own timeline. We get specific about consent and autonomy in documentary filmmaking, including how he checks with families during editing when a moment feels vulnerable, and why some scenes deserve to stay because they reflect real communication and support for nonverbal autistic dancers. 

We also talk about the nuts and bolts of inclusion in arts education: adapting cues for different learning styles, respecting sensory needs, and using simple structures that guide behavior without punishment. Along the way, we explore the ripple effects that matter most, like confidence, social connection, and the way volunteers and students build a community where differences stop being the headline and shared purpose takes over. 

If you care about inclusive dance, accessible performing arts, autism and the arts, or how to center disabled voices in media, this conversation will give you both inspiration and practical ideas. Subscribe, share this with someone who teaches or creates, and leave a review, what’s one barrier you’ve seen that could be removed with a better design?

Transcript

Welcome And Film Introduction

Neil Milliken 0:00

Hello and welcome to Access Chat. I'm delighted that we're joined today by Dan Watt. Dan has produced a wonderful movie called Everybody Dance, which is about an inclusive ballet school. I've watched it, it made me cry. Fantastic movie, Dan, and I love the fact that we're interviewing you as part of the Access Chat community because one of our former guests came to me and said, You really should interview Dan. So it's really a serendipity that we have you on today. So can you tell us a little bit about your background and how you came to make this wonderful film? And what do you got?

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Yeah, well, I actually started out as a dancer and in musical theater. I started when I was 15 and was very lucky to have some amazing teachers and have the opportunity to dance in dance companies back in Cleveland, where I'm from, and studied in New York. Our dance teacher took us to New York every summer, the ones that she felt had potential to show us the real world, you know, and and to say, you know what, you need to be in New York because that guy next to you is the guy going to be at the audition you're gonna be at. So do you think you can outdance him? So, and then after at about the age of 21 or 22, I moved to LA during that Janet Jackson, Michael Jackson uh video uh time and got in two dance companies out here, one called On Our Toes, which was a touring company. And then I also was able to perform with the Joffrey Ballet whenever they came to Los Angeles. For about eight years, I did Petrushka, Taming of the Shrew, all the big ballets with them. And then I moved on to, as I got older, I started choreographing. And then I went on to directing and producing musicals. And but I always, always had a love for television and film. And I don't know over in the UK and other parts of the world if people know who Phil Donahue is or Merv Griffin. And I used to love the Phil Donahue show because he would bring up a topic and they would discuss it for an hour. And I would come home from school and watch that, and my mom would be like, Why aren't you outside playing? I'm like, Phil Donahue's on, you know, and I would watch a talk show, you know, when I was in sixth grade. So I thought, well, let's get into film and television and see what happens. So I was lucky enough that the second place I applied was Columbia Pictures on the Sony lot, and they hired me. And they said, you know everything about producing. We just have to take everything that you know about producing and apply it to film and television. So I was lucky that there was a guy there who could see my potential, and they hired me in film development. And the first movie I worked on was from beginning to end was House Bunny with Anna Ferris. You'd have to, for your younger audience, they can Google it, but she's absolutely amazing and what a great movie to start on. I worked there for five years, worked with on the Jennifer Aniston rom coms also. And after five years, I moved on to Simon Cowell because I loved, like going back to like Phil Donahue, I loved true stories and documentaries, and he was going to do a documentary on the band One Direction, which he had just put together. And he said, Well, let's just follow them and see if anything happens. This is before they blew up, and he was just, let's just see, you know, film them and see what happens. Well, you know what happened. But so I worked the documentary there, and I met Morgan Spurlock, the late Morgan Spurlock, who was an amazing documentary director. And after five years with Simon, I decided I wanted to tell stories that I felt needed to be told and have a little had a little bit more meaning, at least in my eyes. And I said, I want to go out on my own. And he said, do it. And he was like my little mentor and held my hand through the entire time. Whenever I would text him crying, he'd, you know, he'd answer. And I said, I wanted to do a movie about the arts. I wanted it to, I knew it had to be something that I knew because when you're going out in the world the first time, I don't have the Simon Cowell name or the Columbia Pictures umbrella anymore. People aren't going to answer the phone anymore. I'm just Dan Watt. I'm not Dan Watt from Simon Cowell's office. There's two, those are two different people. So I wanted to do a movie about how people who studied the arts applied what they learned in everyday life. But did your mom and dad make you take piano lessons or singing lessons or speech class? You know, you didn't make a career out of it. But how did what lessons did you learn about that? And I then had a dream because during my my transition period from becoming a dancer, I also became a dance teacher and ran the South Bay Conservatory. And there was a mom there who had two girls and they both had autism. Well, I knew nothing about it. You know, we're talking, this is 20 years ago. So I had a dream about Fran and her two daughters, and I thought, well, this is weird. You know, why am I thinking about this? And I didn't give it any any more thought. And then I had the dream a few weeks later about her again. And I thought, this is this is somebody sending me a message. This is, you know, God poking me saying, This is your movie. I'm telling you how to do it. You know, it's still about the arts and how you take what you learn in the arts and apply it to everyday life. But I'm going through the eyes of kids in families with disabilities. So I trusted my gut and I went with it. And then I just started out on my journey trying to find that school or conservatory or community that had that. And now I have an Emmy winning movie.

Antonio Vieira Santos 5:35

Thank you, Dan. It's you know, it's great to have you here. You know, it's not, you know, we always enjoy when we have people that work in cinema and do some work in terms of representation. We have great guests in the past talking about this topic. So, going directly to my question, how can filmmakers and creators can ensure that they are centering on disabled voices rather than in speaking for them? And what did you learn about consent and autonomy while making everybody dance?

SPEAKER_01 6:08

Well, I made a very conscious decision. Well, first I found Bonnie Schlockti, who is the owner and founder of a studio called Ballet for All Kids. They teach all styles of dance, but they focus on ballet. And I also, what makes them so special is it is a full one-hour dance class. You know, that when I was doing my research, it took about eight months to find the right place. You know, there's a lot of parks and recs and other studios that offer 10 minutes of dance, and then they do gymnastics, and then they do, you know, something else, which they all serve the right purpose. You know, I'm not putting them down, I'm just comparing. And but Bonnie taught a full ballet class, and that's I was hoping to find that. But I met with her and it took a while for her to agree to it. And then I had a meeting with some of the parents, and then we met again because I wanted to make sure when I approached the movie, I wanted to go in and be a fly on the wall. I wanted to make sure because I'm neurotypical, so I don't want to step on anybody's toes or present the story in the wrong way. So what I did is I made it the entire movie is these kids and these parents telling their stories in their words, and it's on their timeline. So I just documented them. I gave them the platform to tell their stories, hoping that the world and, you know, and people would see that, you know, notice the similarities, you know, focus on the similarities. You know, these kids came together with one thing in mind. They were coming together to learn choreography and put on a show. That's it. Nothing else mattered after that. So I just wanted to make sure that I just presented their stories. So, you know, I followed them for 10 months to make sure that we, you know, I got as much as I could covering it. Bonnie and these families put a lot of trust in me. And I always made sure, and when I was editing it, I also made sure to ask parents if there were questions that I had about it. And if I there was a scene that I wasn't sure should be in there or not, I would have my editor pull that scene and I would send it to the parents and say, you know, do you want to show this side of your child? In the movie, there's a part where when we're at the it's the day of the the day of the show, and my cameramen are backstage, and one of the girls with autism, you know, gets excited and amped up, and she's nonverbal, and she started just hitting one of the assistants. But that was her way of communicating, and the assistant knew how to handle it, and just they sat down together and they played games, and he was able to calm her down. Well, the parent said to me, Yes, please include that, because we want the world to see that this is one way a nonverbal person with autism expresses themselves. So this is part of our everyday life. But I wanted to make sure, because this girl is now going to be in a movie, that they were okay with it. So I I I took that part of my job very, very seriously.

Debra Ruh 9:39

So and I Which is probably why you want an Emmy.

Families Share The Cost Of Exclusion

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Yeah, hopefully, yeah.

Debra Ruh 9:45

Dan, I want to tell you a quick story and then ask you how parents are responding to it. I have a daughter with Down syndrome. We we lived in Florida and I put her in ballet school right from the beginning, found a really nice little dance school, and they they included her, but what they did do, which I was disappointed, but that's okay, was they sort of created her own dance. So they didn't really put her in the classroom with the other girls. They sort of did her own and she would go out and they'd make a big deal about it, and I appreciated it. But at the same time, I actually wanted my daughter to be in the class. That's okay. Then I relocated to Virginia and I started asking around, and I asked this one I tried to enroll in this one dance company, my daughter, and they told me that they did not include people like that. And I remember, you know, this was in 1994, and I remember being really, really sad about that because I liked living in Virginia, but it just made me really sad. And then, of course, what happens is you've talked about dreams and the universe talking to you. I happened to be going somewhere and I took my daughter to an ice cream place. And as we were getting ice cream, this really cute little girl, little 16-year-old woman behind the counter said to my daughter, Hey, do you like to dance? And she starts talking to her, invites her to Regency Dance Studio in Richmond, Virginia, and and she was totally included, and she danced for another eight years. And it made it it scared me when we weren't included, honestly. I thought, where have I moved? But at the same time, when we were, and then we were including in such a more powerful, beautiful way, it meant everything to our family. First of all, I wanted to say that, Dan. So thank you for this film. I actually also loved House Bunny. Love it, love it, love it. It was a silly but powerful, powerful, empowering movie. And yeah, it's sort of silly, but it's teaching women to appreciate who they are. So love it. But I just so I just wanted to thank you for that. And I can't wait to watch it. I will be watching it tonight on Prime. But how are you are other families coming out and telling you stories like that? Because it wait's hard not to be included. It hurts us a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Well, and there's some of those stories are included in the film. There's a wonderful Jamie whose daughter Allie is in it. And I love I and you know, I'm still friends with a lot of the parents and kids and talk to them all the time. And but with Ailey, Ailey's mom went through the same thing. Went to a, you know, her school called her in and, you know, was saying, We don't know what to do with your daughter. And and then also going to a studio or a parks and rec where it was just, you know, there wasn't enough activity to keep up with her energy. And then she found Bonnie in ballet for all kids, and then everything changed. And again, what's also great about ballet for all kids is everyone is invited. You don't have to have a disability. You know, neurotypical people can go. And what makes it great is you can walk by the window and you don't know who's who. It's just a dance class. And Bonnie Exactly. And what Bonnie did is because, you know, we all learn it at different levels, different speeds, different, you know, I've I worked with the football team at a high school because they wanted to make them a little bit more, I don't know what the word is, agile on the on the field and be able to go from side to side. And I worked with them for eight weeks. So here are these, I'm working with these muscular guys who move different than somebody who studied dance forever. And it was my job to help them learn how to move side to side, front to back, front to back. And you just adapt your lesson plan for those type of people, you know. For the humans in the room. Exactly. It's for it's for everybody. It's like when I taught, and Bonnie does this too, but I I took this. This is why teachers are so important when you find the right teacher. My teacher in Cleveland presented visually see her, you could hear her, and you could also, then there's is it left, right, left? Okay, that works for me. Or is it the ba ba-ba? Is it watching? And as any teacher, it's our job to find the way in. And this is for any child anywhere. It has nothing to do with disability. It's our job to try what is going to make Deborah understand this? You know, what is it, is it left, right, left? Is it just watching me? And Bonnie is brilliant at that.

Debra Ruh 14:26

And different learning styles. And also, Dan, I wanted to say that when that one studio rejected us, they blamed it on the other parents. They said our parents would not want their daughters dancing with her. I mean, they were so blanted about it, I can get emotional now. It's ridiculous. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Well, and when I was teaching these two girls, I knew nothing about I mean, I had heard the word, but I and I didn't study anything about it. All I did was I talked to Fran and she explained to me, like the one daughter was sensory sensitive. And she said, just don't, just don't touch her arms. When you're gonna correct it, just show her what she needs to do to adjust her arm. Just don't touch her. And I said, Okay, that's fine. Well, again, everybody learns at a different pace. You know, Antonio here might pick it up quicker than Neil. Well, it that's okay. You know, it's then just repeating it. It's worth it. I do have two left feet. So it's probably true. You know, so it's just it, it's just treating everybody the same and with kindness and empathy and understanding, and just helping them learn it. And Fran told me that she knew the girls weren't going to progress to jazz two as quick as most people, that it would be a little slower, but they all understood that. Well, that doesn't have anything, again, to do with autism. Again, we all learn at different speeds. I still don't understand math.

Neil Milliken 16:03

Okay.

Feedback, Studio Change, And Practical Tools

SPEAKER_01 16:03

This A plus B equals C to me is silly. A plus B equals A B, because you have an A and a B, so now you have an A B. I don't care. You can say C all you want. It doesn't make sense to me. And by the way, I don't need to worry about it anymore.

Antonio Vieira Santos 16:18

So then I I'm very interested to see how the movie Impact Changed. After what type of feedback have you received from people? Did the studios have reached you out? Because I'm really interested to see how this could somehow improve and make this type of creative spaces more accessible to everyone.

What Inclusive Teaching Looks Like

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Well, I've gotten many, many messages, you know, through Instagram, Facebook. People have posted and reached out to me. One thing is Bonnie makes it very accessible through her studio, Ballet for All Kids. She's got lesson plans typed out plus music. So you can go there and just get it. But studios have also asked me to come in. So I've helped two studios set up their own program just based on the way I taught and how to just start an inclusive class. But the thing that meant the most to me, and to know it made me feel that I did the right thing with the movie, is I got comments, and also on like prime video is where one of the comments that stuck in my head, a girl said, The arts are for everybody. And how did she say it? The arts are for everybody, and we are given the right to, and we are given rights to support and access. Everybody can thrive in the arts. Thank you for making this movie. So it was something, something along that line. But this was a girl with a disability who watched it and told me, thank you for making this movie. And oh, she also had a paragraph that said, Thank you for letting the kids tell their stories. So when when you read something like that, then I'm like, okay, I did this the right way. So just by the movie out there to get studio owners and parents to reach out to me and say, hey, how can you talk to my my daughter's dance teacher and maybe help with this? And also to hear from the disability community that they appreciated it because it it was, you know, like I said, I walked a very thin line and I wanted to make sure I did it right. So to be embraced by the disability community is also a great thing. But going to Bonnie's website, you know, Ballet for All Kids, to know that there's lesson plans and music all ready to go, you know, what an easy way for a teacher to to start inclusive classes.

Neil Milliken 18:45

And I I think having watched the movie, you're right, you did portray the kids in their own environment and they were their true selves. And but what what was great to see was the really positive impact that the school had on them, but also the the the participation and the dance. So and and and not just in their ability to dance, but in their social interactions, their sort of improvements in other areas of their lives as well. And and it was great to hear the kids talking about it, how it how it made them feel more confident and empowered and and able to interact better. I I thought it was great how Bonnie had a meter square on the floor. Right. And and and the the kids would just be ignored if they still if they weren't in the square. And and so there was no there was no sort of punishment, it was just that they learned that they weren't going to get the attention if they weren't in the square, and that helped them with their positioning and everything else. So the you know, really using really simple techniques, taped out squares on the floor, enabled people to sort of understand the zones that they were in and so on. So I thought I thought that that the work that she was doing was great. And you could see that she had uh that Bonnie had a love for ballet, but also a love for the community that had been created. And and I think the other thing was that you you know you it was not a poor area. So so quite often the kids that were coming and helping, and the volunteers are kids that live quite gilded lives ordinarily. And and so what they were then experiencing as as volunteers, you know, they were taking time out from high school, but then they liked it so much that they stayed on was they were experiencing a side of life that that might not have touched them had they not been part of the ballet school. And I think that that integration piece within society is super important. As as you said right at the beginning, it's it's not ballet for the disabled, it's ballet for all kids. Uh and so that that bringing together of the communities across the social spectrum was, I think, really something that came across well in the movie.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Well, and and expanding on what you said, the volunteers, a lot of them go and they have to do a semester to get, you know, extra credit or just credit, however it works these days as a volunteer to graduate from high school now. And how, okay, well, that's a semester, so that's their, you know, eight to ten weeks. Well, then they end up staying for three years because they've developed friendships with these kids. And some of them have gone to college and then come back in the summer and worked over the summer and then help with Bonnie's recital because it is a it is, you know, the arts, the arts are it is a community. It's a way to bring it bring people together. The the arts are a great equalizer, you know. Yeah, they can they teach they teach discipline, focus, social skills, coordination. But it really is a journey of self-identity, dedication, and achievement, you know, and to and to just it to have a a community that comes together all about all the with love. Love is is the main thing, and it just is just a wonderful place to be. And everybody uplifts everybody. And, you know, we just need more of that in the world.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

You know? That's why the arts are so important.

Antonio Vieira Santos 22:30

My daughter is a dual learning in dual learning show. She is regular school, but she's also integrated into the music school. On the top of that, she is doing ballet as well. But the calendar and the schedule is overwhelming. And we already mentioned, oh, maybe you could give up ballet because it is just something that you do on the top of everything else. And she doesn't want to give up. So even if the schedule can be really tight, and my wife we have the possibility of taking her everywhere, she's basically busy all week, but she's very happy when she when she's there. So I think that's something we can apply to all kids. So I'm also no with this work. Is this make you doing more? What's next for you then in this space?

What’s Next: Autism And Online Fandom

Media Inclusion And Closing Thanks

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Well, I I have two projects I'm working on. I'm actually editing them in the final process and working with my composer on an untitled documentary. That's all I'll say for now. But it's with the Tony Award-winning producer and Pulitzer Prize Broadway producer Daryl Roth. She came on board with the project I'm working on. And I'm also working with Rosie O'Donnell on a different project, and that's focused on autism because her child, Clay, has autism, and that's focusing on there's some online on YouTube, there's these animated series that were created. And Clay, Rosie's child, loves them. And they have, you know, like over a billion views. There's two of them. There's called Inanimate Insanity and Battle for Dream Island. And I went to, they started doing conventions because they got so popular. And I think they've only done them for two years. And I went to one of them with Rosie last year, and a third of the audience was people on the autism spectrum. For whatever reason, these animated shows are touching the hearts of these kids, and it's open, it's also opening up their lives, where a lot of the kids now are drawing themselves, are taking animation classes, have started creating their own little shows, and some of them have gotten into editing. Some of them love it so much that they've there they're now. One one child that I interviewed is great, and he's he's created his own show, but he talks about those shows. And every week he does a different episode. So he writes his own script and he met other friends through those shows, and they're the producers, they're the editors, and they've all come together. So here's one YouTube show that influenced these kids on the spectrum, and now we have six kids with autism now creating their own show about those shows. And so to come together and to just see the parents so happy and excited that these kids have a spark in their life, and it's introducing them to things that they never thought of. So now the kids are taking, you know, script writing classes. You know, how do I write an outline? So then what they learned through that, they're now excited to take English class because they're learning how to write an outline. So it's just all interconnected, you know, and it's just great that there's that these communities have come together. And Rosie's like, I don't know what's going on, but but Clay watches it three times a day, and now I have to watch it because I don't know what the hell that pencil did, because it's animated objects, and and there's a fight between the pencil and the sponge, and now I have to discuss it with her. So it so now Rosie and I are watching all of those shows because for whatever reason it's it it just triggered something in these kids in a positive way, and it it's like we gotta tell this story. So then I'm doing that.

Neil Milliken 26:21

And so then I look forward to watching that when when it when it comes out, Dan. So I think that that you know technology does play a a a real role in in sort of media inclusion. Uh and I think that we we've we've seen the sort of flowering of of people's creativity through through some of these things. And I know that when we were talking before we we came on air, I talked about how in a previous life I'd I'd worked in sort of sci-fi memorabilia and gone to lots of Star Trek conventions. There were a lot of autistic and neurodivergent people at those conventions as well, and how much joy there was in these places. We've unfortunately reached the end of our a lot of power for the show. Keep on going for a long time. So I need to thank you, of course, for for coming on, being our guest and sharing your wonderful work, and also to thank Amazon for sponsoring us and keeping us on us. So thank you, Dan. Thank you guys. It was a pleasure.