What If Disability Inclusion & Community Care Starts In A Stable

A horse does not show up with preconceptions about disability, status, or what you can do. It meets you as you are, responds to your body and energy, and somehow makes space for confidence to grow. That simple idea becomes powerful when you hear how Riding for the Disabled Association (RDA) turns it into real support for thousands of people across the UK. 

We sit down with Michael Bishop, CEO of RDA UK, to explain what RDA actually is: a UK-wide disability charity supporting a movement of around 450 local groups, powered by roughly 14,000 volunteers and nearly 3,000 horses each year. Michael breaks down the range of equine-assisted work, from riding and carriage driving to education-linked, ground-based sessions, and he clarifies the difference between hippotherapy (physiotherapy-led intervention) and the broader therapeutic impact people experience through belonging, nature, and routine. 

We also get practical about access and scale. Half of RDA beneficiaries live in urban areas, and many people discover local centres through schools, families, and medical professionals. But demand is outpacing supply: 71% of groups cannot meet current need. That leads to the big questions around volunteering, funding, rising costs, and how social prescribing could recognise not just participation, but the mental health benefits of volunteering itself. You will also hear about “Tea with a Pony,” a programme supporting people living with progressive conditions like dementia through sensory connection and calm community time. 

If you care about disability inclusion, mental health support, equine therapy, or community-led care that actually works, this conversation gives you a grounded view of what it takes and what is at stake. Subscribe, share the episode with someone who needs a hopeful model of support, and leave a review so more listeners can find us.

Transcript

Welcome To Access Chat

Neil Milliken 0:00

Hello and welcome to AXS Chat. I'm delighted that we're joined today by Michael Bishop. Michael is the CEO of RDA, which is Riding for the Disabled. It's an umbrella organization that supports lots of other equine and sorry hypotherapy organizations. So hypotherapy is the therapy of working with, riding with, and working with horses, particularly supporting people with a wide range of disabilities. So, Michael, I've mangled that, and to a certain extent, you're here to disabuse me of how I mangled it. So please introduce yourself to our audience. It's good to have you with us.

Michael Bishop 0:38

Lovely to be here. Thank you for having me on. And I'll try and keep a checklist that I'll come back to and what you've said, Neil, shall I, and uh correct it as we go. RDA is a UK-wide charity, and we're on a mission to break barriers for disabled people, those barriers that society creates and transform their lives through the therapeutic, as you've described, power of horses. And it's that unique relationship that happens between people and horses. Horses bring people together critically. And I say we work right across the UK with about 39,000 people every year.

Neil Milliken 1:12

And I grew up near one of the centres, and so I was sort of familiar with the with the concept, but I didn't realize quite how many people were involved or quite how it all worked in terms of the fact that RDA is sort of an umbrella and that you support a constellation of different types of organizations, all of which work with horses and people with disabilities, but to varying different degrees.

How RDA Works Across The UK

Michael Bishop 1:40

Yeah, so RDA is like a big movement, if you like, of about 450 organizations. Um most of them are independent charities that will carry the RDA name in some way or another. And they are led predominantly by volunteers. So about 14,000 volunteers across the UK drive forward our work. And I think I often describe that we have these real ranges of activity. And a lot of that activity started as you experienced nearly riding and then later carriage driving, but also a wide range of ground-based activities that involve educational content that happen off a horse with all of that connection that happens with horses, learning, um, and and perhaps some formal links to education too.

Debra Ruh 2:23

Michael, welcome to the program. I love what you're doing at RDA. And I know that here in the States, we talked about a little bit off-air that horse therapy, equine therapy, I know you said hippotherapy. Maybe I said that wrong, but it is a really big thing in the United States. I know my daughter with Down Syndrome and many of her peers have gone to these programs. But when you were saying the numbers, that was surprising me because you were saying 39,000. The ones that we've dealt with, these are small farms that are working with people, I would say, you know, they would be lucky maybe to impact several hundred at the most. So I think when I was looking at it, I wasn't realizing that you were pro you're supporting all of them. I mean, all these different groups, 450 orgs, and that I don't think is being done in the States. So my first question would be, Michael, can the ones in the States join your organization or is it only for the UK? But it's such a good idea because once again, I see these come from horse people and that my aunt had horses always, my sister still has horses. I'm very respectful of horses. I love to ride them, but I understand they take a lot to take care of them. My sister always has the vet out there doing different things. So I'm I'm just sister of someone that does the horses, but I know that my daughter with disabilities has really benefited from being around horses.

Michael Bishop 3:46

The thing that makes it work for us is we're a real, I describe it as a patchwork quilt. Lots of different types of organization stitched together. And some of those will be commercial organizations, but say the vast majorities are are charities. They'll range in size exactly as you're describing. So some of our centres will be purpose-built centres where the charity will own its facility. There might be 20 plus horses, a handful of paid staff as well as the volunteers, and they might work with, as you've described, hundreds of riders or we call them participants, but beneficiaries of our charitable work every week. On the other hand, we've got some really small community-led organisations that might kind of hire the ponies in a local riding school or equestrian centre for an hour a week, or might come together in the local field and bring the ponies, and they might work with a handful of riders, but their connection then is often really deep to the impact they create in those people's lives because they're working very closely with people often over a quite a prolonged period of time. And as you've started to describe, that's across a real range of impact from the physical benefits of riding and the outdoor connection with nature right through to mental health impact on well-being, connection with education. I I could go on, but I suspect you might be able to do that.

Debra Ruh 4:59

But it's true, but it is true. And I know I was also mentioning I have a friend who actually rescues horses. Horses, for some of the audience that might know that, horses live a long time. Michael could probably tell us, but they can live. How long can horses live?

Michael Bishop 5:16

Very commonly into their 20s and often into their 30s.

Why Horses Help People Thrive

Debra Ruh 5:19

That's what I was thinking. I was going to say 30s, and I thought you might say it wrong, but and so it's a beautiful commitment. But my sister, for example, she worries about her horses as she's aging. People that love horses love horses and they want them protected. But there's a group that helps horses that have aged and you don't ride them anymore. And they're you they're creating a mental health therapy program there. And so why, why, Michael, do we use horses to comfort and help people? I actually have a whole bunch of opinions about that. People that love horses really, really love horses.

Michael Bishop 5:55

I think there's lots of things to pick up in there. What let me take why first. Why? Because horses are thinking, sensitive, sensitive beings. And so they respond to us and they meet us as people on the terms that we present at the time. They don't take preconceptions of us. And I started by talking about some of those societal barriers that often our beneficiaries across the UK are trying to overcome, those kind of societal barriers faced by disabled people. And the horse doesn't see that. The horse sees you as you arrive. And horses, because they're very sensitive creatures, will respond to things like your heart rate, the way you behave around them, in a way that's that's often very inclusive and welcoming. And probably because of that kind of unique role that horses have in our cultural history, I suppose, no matter where in the world you are, also this really important role in our cultural history, actually they act as a real convener. They bring people together. And crucially, what really works is that they're, you know, they they they bring us to the same place to meet other people and create a sense of belonging.

Debra Ruh 6:55

You know what else I learned the other day? I was talking to a friend of mine that just started working with horses. Just with what you just said, it reminded me. And she said that if she what she noticed when she was going out into the yard, it's what you're presenting to the horses each time. So she said she noticed, for example, when she would have a little bit to drink or maybe have some weed, the horses responded to her differently. And I was like, really? And she said, Yeah, they can tell. They really, really, really can focus on what you're feeling, which I think is one reason why it's so good for people with autism, which I've seen. A lot of my my daughter has Down syndrome and autism. And she she's a she's a wonderful communicator, but she can't always, always communicate really what she's thinking. And so I think the horses, I don't calm her down or yeah, I'm not exactly sure what happens, but it's beautiful.

Michael Bishop 7:52

Yeah, and and they often help us as people regulate, self-regulate through that connection that we've described. And that's a that's certainly a really powerful tool that you see in some of our groups. I'm I often say that you'll in a role like mine where I'm lucky enough to see that moment of magic happen between people and horses all the time, there are lots of things that will really grab your emotion. For me, it's often that growth in confidence from people that comes from being able to do something, experience things, perhaps connect with nature, perhaps just do something that their classmates can't do or haven't had the opportunity to do that that's really powerful.

Debra Ruh 8:28

Right, right. And that is very important. Their classmates might not have had, you know, been able to do this. But Michael, just real quick, and I'm gonna turn it over to Neil. Are you is your organization, RDA, a UK-based organization? Is it an international? Because I think it needs to be international, but I'll let you answer it.

Michael Bishop 8:48

You're quite right. I missed that off your last question. Uh RDA is a RDA UK, as the title suggests, is a UK-based organization. There are, I'm delighted to say, RDA organizations across the world, and there are lots of organizations that do similar things to us in different parts of the world. Many of them are called RDA. But but but but from my perspective, we're we're here for the UK, and with our nearly 40,000 beneficiaries, that's giving us plenty, plenty to work on at the moment.

Neil Milliken 9:20

Yeah. So so we had a conversation prior to coming on air, and one of the things we were talking about was the best the horses are, the the convenance. But the you know, and RDA's been going a long time, because I mean it's been going since I was a little boy, and before that, in fact. But there's a perception that you're a an equine charity, and actually really what you're wanting to do is communicate to people that it's not you're not you're not a horse charity, you're a disability charity, you know, that that uses the horse as the convener, ... that then sort of brings people out of themselves and teaches people skills and so on. What do you think, you know, are some of the sort of key things that those kind of messages that we need to get across to people about organizations like RDA and the the the members in your constellation of member organizations so that people that aren't horse people understand that there's also a benefit to getting involved.

A Disability Charity Not A Horse One

Michael Bishop 10:27

Yeah. And well, again, loads of different threads. I think the first one I'd pick up really is some of that is is breaking down preconceptions, perhaps, about the role that a horse can play. A big part of what we do in RDA, for example, is introduce people to equestrian sport. But it but it's a part of what we do, not the whole of what we do. And the real core of our activity is grassroots-based activity that's trying to help people overcome those societal barriers faced by disabled people. And that I suppose I'd really use that as the introduction to you don't necessarily know that you've wanted to connect with a horse to help you overcome some of those boundaries from motivate based until you've tried it. And I'm often most delighted when I speak to beneficiaries who've connected with us for a short period of time and have gained confidence, skills, perhaps some physical improvement in course strength or stability, that are then able to go on to other things in their life. And I think that's a really important message that this isn't just a route into lots of equestrian disciplines in the equestrian world, which many of us love dearly, but actually we're here to create that change in our society. And because we work at a real grassroots level with lots of beneficiaries in lots of different circumstances, to reflect on some of the changing needs of our society and the changing understanding that we have of disability, which we started touching on a little bit when we spoke earlier in the week.

Referrals Schools And Urban Access

Neil Milliken 11:51

Yes. So so I think that in the UK, at least, and I know it's different in different societies, there's a perception that horse riding is for certain social strata, and and yet the work that you do crosses all levels of of society. How do your sort of your users and the beneficiaries of the services that your member organizations deliver find out about how do they get in touch? How do they find out? How do they get involved? Because, you know, if you are living in a inner city flat somewhere, you're not necessarily going to think, oh, you know what, I'm going to go and find my my local hippotherapy horse riding centre because it's going to meet my needs. So how do you connect with uh that that wider community? Because I know that you do have centres even in cities, but people don't necessarily think about it.

Michael Bishop 12:49

Well, there's there's lots of ways that that beneficiaries or participants come to us, and uh some are interested in equestrian sport, but actually often they're kind of referrals that come or recommendations that come through family members, through doctors and medical professionals, and very commonly they're actually through schools, and a lot of our groups will work with local schools to provide that opportunity to their students. Many of our local grassroots groups will work with local schools to take those school groups in. You touched on a really important theme for me, which is 50% of our beneficiaries live in urban areas. So, you know, often we're we're reasonably close to someone in an urban area. And, you know, we've got some great groups that operate, for example, in London. I was at a group in Liverpool, you know, both of which big urban centres last week. And they they really break down some of that preconception. And the other thing I'd pick up is the range of activity. So hippotherapy is the very specific physical therapy that comes from riding a horse. And we have some of that very specific work that's led by physiotherapists, but actually that range is much broader. And when I use the term therapeutic, what I mean is that often we're we're dealing with sense of belonging, connection with nature, self-esteem, connection with education. And it's a real range of therapeutic benefits, some of which are in that kind of um very strict, you know, there is a physiotherapy-led benefit to being on a horse.

Debra Ruh 14:20

Michael, I don't know if this question would be relevant since you have 450 orgs, you might not be able to answer it real easily. But what type of disabilities, age groups, in you've already talked a little bit about your geographic reach, but who who do you find that a lot of these organizations are serving? Maybe that's the best way.

Who RDA Serves And How It Evolved

Michael Bishop 14:42

So we use the model of disability or the understanding of disability that's adopted by the UK government, which is a social model of disability. And and and the stat I often use to explain that is that that means that in the UK, one in four people are living with a disability. And I use that stat because often it brings home the kind of breadth of people we work with. When I use that in a room full of people, and and hopefully your listeners will be able to think about it in those terms too. 70% of our beneficiaries are under the age of 25. So the majority of people we work with are younger people, but there's a really core part of people with the adults living with disability as well. So it's a it's a real range, but I would think about it right across that breadth of our current understanding of disability. We started, and and Neil and I had some of this chat earlier in the week, nearly 60 years ago now as an organization, and many of our groups have existed for more than 60 years, working with people with physical disabilities based on society's understanding of disability at the time, which was that that range, and for the physical benefit. And I say what we're seeing is this great broadening of the use of the horse and the use of our that is kind of convening power to bring those people together with our remarkable volunteers. I say it's 14,000 of them that none of this is possible with without.

Debra Ruh 16:02

Yeah, and it it's I just love those points. But also, as one of them that's doing it, we're all doing it. But the aging of society, I know here in the United States, if anybody's paying attention to the news, there are a lot of Americans that are very traumatized right now, very, very traumatized. And the need to help people find their stable place is just become really, really critical. What I don't know, but I wonder, is you know, have we realized that this kind of therapy could be used to also help older adults that are feeling left out? And so so much of the disability community blends into what happens as we age and we get over a certain age. It's it's pretty scary.

Michael Bishop 16:45

Yeah, absolutely. The two points I want to make about that. One is the benefit of volunteering. You know, one of the great senses of belonging and community that we create is in our volunteer population. And crudely, one of the limits on our ability to offer our services is the number of volunteers that our centers are able to recruit. So I guess there's a real plea that, you know, if you're listening to this and you think I can help, then please do reach out to volunteer because that does create that sense of community and belonging. One of the things I was warned about when I took this job was that I'd eat too much cake. And that's because our wonderful volunteers bake great cakes, but that sort of typifies the sense of belonging. The second point I wanted to make, and I'm at risk now making myself seem wonderfully British, I think, to many of your listeners, is that we run a program as an example of what you're describing called Tea with a Pony. And that's aimed at people living with long-term progressive conditions like dementia. And if you think about, I say turns wonderfully British, doesn't it, Tea with a Pony. But if you think about the activity of coming to the stables, being in a rounded sensory environment with sights, smells, touch of the pony, that can bring back great memories and and stimulate all of those thoughts that are really important. All with, as you described, that that great sense of belonging that's that's really important. And I I'd certainly love seeing those sessions happen.

Debra Ruh 18:15

I just think it's such a great point that you brought up about volunteering, because I know once again, as I look at, you know, aging and I'm part of it, people do get lonely. They do get lonely. So I always say one of the best things you can do is help. It doesn't have to be a big help. It doesn't, you know, like you said, baking a cake and going up, and it can be little ways. Even little things like just being kind to each other all day long can really help not only the people you're being kind to, but your mental health. So volunteering is really, really a critical point.

Neil Milliken 18:46

I think it's really interesting because uh what Michael's described is is in the UK termed as social prescribing, right? So whether whether the medical profession think that you're going to benefit more from doing an activity with people or animals than giving you drugs or giving you other treatments. And so there is a whole movement around social prescribing in the UK. The stuff that RDA is doing, but also there's a big thing around gardening and community gardens and so on. And I wonder whether part of the next step is that the medical profession will start not just recommending participating as a recipient of this, but actually that part of the mental health and rehabilitation can be the volunteering as well. Now, clearly, when you see TV programs and I watch a lot of gardening programmes, so my focus has been a bit more on the benefits of being out in the nature and pulling weeds and planting things and watching them grow. You s see these community gardens and you you see a lot of the people running them started off as people that had been sent there as patients. They they get into it and it gives a whole new focus in life. So I I'm fully behind the idea of of of volunteering and giving back to society as actually being of great benefit to individuals. It can also be of benefit to companies. So I mean I I think that that's another area where the work that people do a lot of the time sat in front of screens or standing, as I am today, it's not healthy. And you know, there's a whole issue around mental health and well-being at work, and I think that a lot of organizations are looking to find ways to keep their employees healthy and at the same time do something for the community so that they're not just seen as taking the whole time. So that's an area where where organizations like yours can get volunteers. So if companies are wanting to volunteer or individuals are wanting to volunteer, how do they get in touch with you?

Demand Funding Volunteers And Horses

Michael Bishop 20:43

Well, they get in touch hopefully with us at rda.org.uk and have a look there, and then they can find either directly through us or through their local group who'd be you know really keen

Speaker 20:55

to hear. Because I say there are some significant limits on our services, and one of our challenges is that there's an ever-growing waiting list of people who want to benefit from our work. So we're really keen to hear from those kind of be it individuals volunteering and baking that cake or you know, starting their volunteering journey with us to to corporates who would want to A, help their staff get outside and give us some really practical help or help us in other ways, because it is it's very challenging for many of our groups who exist with these long waiting lists. And 71% of our groups, so 71% of those 450 organizations can't meet their current demand. So trying to find opportunities to increase that pipeline is is really important.

Debra Ruh 21:40

Well, it sounds like a funding opportunity. Y'all need funding at rda.org.uk, and then you can also help the others. So just want to say funding is always a gift as well. Neil, you want to say something.

Neil Milliken 21:53

Sure. Right. But so if 71% of your organizations, you know, have have uh sort of unable to make The needs. What are the sort of things? Yeah, we mentioned volunteers. What are the other sort of things that you need in your sort of in the infrastructure? Is it? You know, is it the the facilities themselves? Because it it maybe that varies. Is it access to horses? Or is it a mix of all of the above?

Michael Bishop 22:19

Well, it inevitably it is a mix of all of the above. I think two biggest things are funding. You know, we're we're predominantly funded by by voluntary donations. And that's the case for the majority of our group, our local groups. So they do need ongoing financial support to make it possible. And clearly many of our beneficiaries pay a small fee for the service, but we want to keep that as low as possible. And some groups it doesn't exist. So that's really important. But it is finding the right number of volunteers, too. You're also right, Neil. Yes, we struggle to find all of the right horses. It takes nearly 3,000 horses are involved in our activities every year, just in the UK. But all of that rests on, you know, a great number of volunteers to look after them and help us find them and the money to make it happen. And, you know, it goes without saying, I suspect given all of our perspectives, costs are rising rather alarmingly, particularly in recent weeks and months, and that remains a challenge. So, you know, we wouldn't be alone in saying that. I think you highlighted earlier, though, the real societal impact, which, you know, I feel very strongly that community-based organizations, volunteer-led organisations like ours can make that underpins be it healthcare in the way that you described social prescribing, or be it a connection with education. And one of the things we find is that as a result of our activities, our beneficiaries are better connected to their to their school or college environment for those who are still present in that environment, or a working environment. And I'm always at risk of telling stories of our participants because they're the they're the emotional pull, right? But I but I will remember I'll remember some of them kind of till the day I die, I guess. And one woman who I remember speaking to earlier in my time in this role. Through volunteering with RDA, this this woman that I met who hadn't had been in formal employment for a decade, she'd been been living with anxiety. She, through volunteering and the structure of volunteering in RDA group, was able to find a way back into work. And that's just a really good demonstration of how those kind of community-based organizations like RDA make a really telling economic and social contribution.

Neil Milliken 24:37

Yeah, no, and I think that that's that's extremely important to remember that contribution to society. And and and there's one last thing before we we come to the end of our time. We were speaking off about the secondary impact of some of the stuff that you feel is important for RDA to also speak up. You're not a primarily and predominantly an advocacy organization, but you are able to reflect back the the views and needs of your members. And so this was something that I think you know, was something that hadn't yet come out in the conversation, but we had talked about before. So did you just want to tell us a little bit about that before we close?

Protecting Community Provision In Policy

Michael Bishop 25:25

Yeah, well, I think, and Deborah's touched on it to some extent. You know, the the the growing need in our society, which is I think is is true across the board for mental health provision, for provision in support of the lives of disabled people generally, means that you've got to have this fabric of community-based organizations. And I I suppose we we talked, Neil, about a very specific consultation that's happening by the government in England about how that provision is allocated in schools in England. So that's a very specific

Speaker 25:55

example. But the underpinning point, which is that we see, is that community-based organizations like ours have a really critical role to play. And I think it's really important governments recognise that as they rightly want to allocate their funding in the right places, the places where it makes most impact, and all of us who are taxpayers want to see that happen, but that they don't lift the bar in a way that that excludes, if you like, community-based provision and volunteers being able to meet the requirements to provide some of that provision. And so I suppose it's just a plea that, you know, I'm lucky enough to see the impact of our volunteers every day, and I don't want them to be excluded by structural change that all of our governments will need to make to reflect that growing need in our society.

Where To Help And Final Thanks

Neil Milliken 26:42

Yeah, that makes very good sense to me. Thank you so much for joining us today, Michael. It's been a real pleasure to speak to you and to learn more about the work of RDA. Uh, I also need to give thanks to our friends at Amazon for sponsoring us and keeping us on air and wish you the very best of luck in your continuing mission to sort of change people's lives through working with horses.

Michael Bishop 27:06

Thank you very much. It's been a delight to have this chat, and it's it'd be lovely to stay in touch and and thanks to everyone for listening.

Speaker 27:14

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Debra Ruh 29:28

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Speaker 32:00

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