Duke of Digital

005 - Instagram Removes Likes with Amber Faust and Dominique Clare

November 21, 2019
Duke of Digital
005 - Instagram Removes Likes with Amber Faust and Dominique Clare
Chapters
Duke of Digital
005 - Instagram Removes Likes with Amber Faust and Dominique Clare
Nov 21, 2019
Brian Meert
A discussion on Instagram removing likes
Show Notes Transcript
Speaker 1:
0:00
Instagram is removing likes worldwide. After report came out that their app affects users. Mental health. Is this the end of social media or the beginning of a creative Renaissance? We're going to tell you everything you need to know about Instagram in today's episode. Stay tuned,
Speaker 2:
0:15
presented by advertisement. The juke of digital will guide you through the rapidly changing landscape of digital marketing, social media, and how to grow your business online. To submit a question for the show, text (323) 821-2044 or visit Duke of digital.com if you need an expert to fix your ads, the friendly team at advertisement is ready to help visit advertisement. That's M I N t.com or call (844) 236-4686.
Speaker 1:
0:49
Grow your business. Here's your host, Brian Mitt. I am really excited today because we have two special guests that, uh, we've brought on this show to be able to discuss this topic of Instagram likes being removed from the platform and what it means for you and your business. I want to begin by introducing Amber Faust. Uh, she's a parenting influencer and blogger at foster Island. Uh, it covers topics like family life, healthy cooking, traveling and kids. Um, this is exciting because Amber has spent her entire adult life living only on islands. Uh, st Thomas, Corfu, Greece and now Hilton head, South Carolina. I love this because I actually spent a year living on Fiji back when I was a, I took a year off college to go and volunteer and it was fantastic. So, uh, it's excited to have you here. Welcome to the show. Did I miss anything? Uh, tell us more about you.
Speaker 3:
1:47
Um, I'm Amber. I'm a photographer. I've been a photographer for 12 years. I've been an influencer for five years, almost five years since my kids have been born. I took a little bit of time off when I had my little boys, but I miss like my creative outlets and taking pictures. So I started taking pictures of my boys and I shared them on Instagram and I became an accidental influencer, I guess. So. And then they like grew this crazy following worldwide and I love it. I think it's adorable that I have like people in Germany who DME all the time and asked me, what are the boys doing today? How are you? It's a go. I love it.
Speaker 1:
2:21
Yeah, it's amazing. The photos. I was looking through your Instagram account, but for the show and I'm like, Oh man, I want to go there and I want to go there. And the photos are so beautiful. Uh, it just, it's, you live the life that everyone else dreams.
Speaker 3:
2:35
Actually. I really don't. I'm like doing laundry today and I'm posting like I posted a beach picture earlier. I'm actually doing laundry. That was last weekend.
Speaker 1:
2:43
I love it. I love it. Well, how can people find you or be able to follow you? Um, give us, you know, where they can find,
Speaker 3:
2:51
I lived on like every social media platform or you could just go to [inaudible] dot com
Speaker 1:
2:56
and that's FAU S T fouls. Yep. Got it. Perfect. Cool. Well, welcome to show. Thank you so much for being here. I'm excited to be able to jump on this topic. Our second guest is Dominique Claire, a contact director at Midwest communications. Uh, you played college football, you, you've turned into a sports and fitness blogger. Most people have probably seen you on Fox sports, sports illustrated, Bleacher report. Um, and oddly enough, you were born in The Bahamas. So we've got like an Island theme going on here today, which is wonderful, you know, welcome to the show. Uh, tell us a little bit more about yourself and how people can find you.
Speaker 4:
3:34
Yeah, so, uh, my, my main job is I'm the content director for Midwest Midwest communications. We have, uh, 90 radio stations across the U S so I direct the news blogs, podcast and social media for all of those individual radio stations. So that's my, uh, business, uh, social media experience. And then on the side of that, I'm also a blogger for fitness and sports and then, uh, some fitness influencer as well. And that's primarily what I use Instagram for. So I have a lot of personal, uh, business use and actual, um, from a, from an employee business, uh, use as well through social media. So I'm coming at you from, from both angles, uh, of how it impacts influencers and businesses. Bear.
Speaker 1:
4:13
I love it now on Instagram. How can people find you and follow you?
Speaker 4:
4:18
So Instagram is at Dominique Claire and a Twitter is another big platform that I use just because Twitter is so big with journalism and blogging. So Twitter is at Dom Claire.
Speaker 1:
4:28
Perfect. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you so much for being on the show. I'm okay. So I'm excited about jumping to this topic because it's big news in, in the world of social media. I'm from kind of what has been going on to where things are at now. Um, and so, I mean, I wanted to give a little background on the story for people that, you know, maybe aren't fully aware of what's happening, but you know, Instagram received criticism regarding the app's effect on, on mental health is that was kind of the, the big turning point. Um, and there was a 2017 study, uh, by RSP H that said it actually ranked it as the worst social media for mental health. Um, and so because of that, uh, they started running tests, um, and actually removing, you know, likes, which are the heart icon on Instagram. Uh, in several other countries and this past week they began to roll it out worldwide where likes were now disappearing, uh, across all, you know, in all countries on the Instagram app.
Speaker 1:
5:25
Um, you know, comments are still being shown. Um, and some people are claiming, uh, this is because the, you know, in the discussion behind this that they're saying this change isn't happening because of mental health. They're changing, they're changing because it's, you know, people are becoming less creative and that's, they're doing it to, um, you know, help generate more ad revenues. So, you know, I wanted to dive into this and get your guys' feedback on what you think this means for the platform, what you think it means for other influencers, um, other, other people that you know, are trying to, their followings. So let me lead off with Amber. You know, how do you feel about this change of Instagram hiding likes?
Speaker 3:
6:05
Um, for me in my account, it's positive. Um, I've been, my entire posting strategy has been to get the double clicks to get posting, to make someone stop their scroll. But now I'm not as worried about it. I am not as worried about my engagement rate. I can post more of my personality and I can engage with my followers better. I don't have to post every day a big beach photo. I can post that I'm doing laundry, I could post that. What book I'm reading. I can become more of who I am instead of worrying about my engagement rate. I can go back to who I was when I first started my Instagram account, and I think it'll actually help grow and connect with my following better than just posting a beach photo and these sterile photos that I post every day.
Speaker 1:
6:47
Oh, that's interesting. So you actually think you're, there's a part of you that feels like what you post sometimes isn't the real you like, or that you're, you do things.
Speaker 3:
6:57
The drama pants. Yeah, I think it's great. I think it's fun. I'm still in a post, my big pretty beach photos, but I can post what I'm actually doing for the day. I can post it. I'm laying in bed reading a book. I think that's fun. It never got the likes before, but I could tell people what I'm reading and talk about books and other interests that I have besides the beach. I love it. It's going to be positive.
Speaker 1:
7:20
Now do you think this is going to have a big impact on the effect of influencers and potentially landing sponsorships with brands or other companies?
Speaker 3:
7:31
I, I don't think like the likes. I don't think it's going to stop. What was sponsors right now they ask for all of our insights. They ask for all of our platforms, like activate has a social handshake, they can see all of our insights and they can see our demographics. I don't think that it's really gonna matter to them if they can see our likes or not because they can already see them through different technology and everything. So everybody already knows exactly my insights, exactly what my demographics are. Every job before I landed. And then they ask for stuff after they asked for screenshots after. So I don't think it's going to change sponsorships at all either.
Speaker 1:
8:05
Got it. Okay. Great. Great. Dominique, I want to turn over to you. Um, you know, what are your thoughts on this change to likes?
Speaker 4:
8:12
Yeah, I, when I first heard about it I kind of, you know, mad like why are they doing this? But once I really had some time to think about it, I think it's going to be positive as well. When you really think about the pressure that you're put on the post, like if you go in and study how to get a good Instagram post, it's going to say you need to post it this time. You have to have this type of picture. You need to do all these things and make sure that it gets liked. That pressure's going to go away a little bit and you can just be your authentic self and do what what your account is about. If it's about fitness, if it's about parenting, you can just actually show that and show what it's really like. Instead of making sure I get on at 3:00 PM and I have this professional photo and I get everything posted and get it out and get five comments within the first five minutes, you can just post a picture and not worry about that. Because if it's good and if it's real, your audience is going to appreciate it and I think they're going to resonate with it and we're going to see more of that. And I think it's going to have a trickle down effect of more authentic content on instance.
Speaker 1:
9:05
Now, do you think that this will have a change, you know, with, I mean, to some extent, you know, do you know what generally comes on Instagram are these incredible photos and you know, it always makes me laugh when you'll see like the before or after. Like people will be like, here's what I posted and here's me five minutes later. Or, you know, the ones like that where they show, you know, the real life, it makes me smile, you know, will influence her suffer or you know, in terms of brand deals or things like that when they start to become their authentic self and not the high point self of all the the best moments.
Speaker 4:
9:42
Um, to be honest, I think some will suffer. Um, cause I think it's gonna open up and level the playing field a little bit. I think the ones that are really good at what they do, they won't suffer. They'll adapt, they'll adjust. But it will also give opportunity for some people who have not been able to get that professional level as some others. And they'll build their authentic selves will be a better sell and they'll be able to, to rise up in a way that they never had before. Because let's say for example, you see two photos. If you can't see the likes and they are the same type of quality, you might like the other one just because it didn't appear as, or it didn't appear as popular before and now it does because you're like, Hey, I like this photo, regardless of how many likes it has.
Speaker 1:
10:19
Oh, I love that. I love that. Um, you know, let me, let me do this. Let me jump back to Amber. What are your thoughts on, you know, will this affect mental health or will this change improve mental health in that fight for men? That validation of, uh, purpose of meaning of, you know, if I did something and you know, no one likes it. Oh my goodness, but if 10,000 people like it and tomorrow I've got to get 15 and then I've got to get a million, like how will this change kind of come to play with what Instagram is saying is the reason for this change?
Speaker 3:
10:56
I admit I get a high wind. Never a lot of people like my photos. I, most people do. We like the validation. Um, I think it's positive. It's as they're experimenting with it. I don't know that it's going to work, but I think it's, I think it's the right direction that we need to go. We need to figure it out. They acknowledge that there's a problem and they acknowledge it. It's hurting people. It's acknowledging her younger people too. So I, I think it's great. Um,
Speaker 1:
11:21
okay, nice. Nice. Dominique, any thoughts on that?
Speaker 4:
11:24
Yeah, I mean the thing is you still can see the lights so the individual user can, so I could still go with my photo if it only had a hundred likes compared to 400 and the last one, I might internally still think that all my photos thinks nobody, nobody likes me. So that may be some people still may deal with those issues internally, but I think after time when likes start to just become less important, that might get better. But right away people are still going to go to their own insights and see how many people it and they might feel bad. So mental, mental health might take a little while for that to eventually help. But I think longterm, like Amber was saying, I think it will be a good thing.
Speaker 1:
12:03
Nice. Nice. I, you know, I, I came across a study by hype auditor, uh, said that they found that likes overall likes fell from three to 15% for influencer accounts with um, five to 20,000 followers, uh, were where the hidden likes were being tested in the countries where they were testing it. Um, and so, you know, it comes to, you know, show that there is now an effect on hiding these, that people will stop liking content. You know, is this, you know, Amber in your mind, the death of, you know, the like button, it's now not even worth it. They were just gonna, you know, stick with just comments.
Speaker 3:
12:39
I didn't actually know about that study. I thought we were just going to continue. It's so ingrained in our everyday life to just double tap everything and I didn't realize that it would actually bring everything down. That's very interesting. Um, I think it's, that's awesome. You just shocked me. So I just thought we would just continue. Just double tapping. I, our likes are gone this morning minor and I was scrolling and I was still, I was like, Oh look what a cute picture. And I was still double tapping like normal every day. So
Speaker 1:
13:11
all right, so the behavior is there and it's something that, you know, you can still do. They just don't display it in terms of any sort of metrics or, um,
Speaker 3:
13:20
I still liked every single photo. I double tap, so
Speaker 1:
13:23
that's great. Dominique, any thoughts?
Speaker 4:
13:26
Yeah, I mean I have some concerns about that if people do stop liking because what's going to feed the algorithms and let's say you do have some content that is popularity or from a business standpoint and that's what Instagram currently uses to show your photos to other people because this is popular content. So if people aren't liking it, then how are they going to say this should be at the top of the algorithm? I just, I don't understand what they're going to use then other than comment, um, for, to determine what's a popular photo for the algorithm.
Speaker 1:
13:52
Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that this is going to be a good move for inspiring better creatives? That, that people will now become more creative and, and become more of their authentic self to be like, here's my life and what's going on?
Speaker 3:
14:09
I think so.
Speaker 4:
14:11
I definitely, I definitely do. I think, I think that that'll be ultimately the best effect from it just because people won't, they won't feel that pressure. They'll still be able to see how many people liked it, but they'll in their heads, they'll beg, it doesn't matter because people aren't going to judge me if I do a photo. For example, for a fitness influencer, if I post a photo of working out, I'm going to get the most likes. If I post something of me that, uh, or like a meal or something or just my, some food cause I want to show people what I eat. That's not going to do as well. It's only going to get 30 to 50 likes just because a lot of people, they're not, they're not going to see me in that photo. They're not going to relate that. Um, some people just don't care about it, but to me that's still important to share that information with people.
Speaker 1:
14:50
Nice. Amber.
Speaker 3:
14:52
Um, I think it's good. Um, can you go back and repeat the question? I was lost in his conversation.
Speaker 1:
14:58
Oh, is it, is this a good move, you know, by taking away likes, is it going to inspire more creativity, um, by people that are no longer constrained to what generally gets the most likes?
Speaker 3:
15:11
Yes, definitely. I think it's, it's bringing out a lot of creativity and like outside photos with me, I'm seeing a lot of different photographers go inside and bring like different, I don't even know how to explain it. Like with mom photographers, they're doing a lot of different, just there's an NAS Helms, she does a lot of just crazy pictures where she, she preps a bunch of, I can't even talk, you know, stumbled where she grabs a bunch of different elements from different photos and she's combining them and it's the prettiest photo she's doing and she's changing. She's changing to get different followers. And I don't even know what I'm trying to say, but I think it's good.
Speaker 1:
15:49
I mean, so from my standpoint, right, you have a beautiful Instagram, it's photos of islands and beaches and your children. You're running around and playing, smiling. It just looks like the life that everyone wants to live. Does this now mean you know, it would be photos of you cleaning the house or photos of you going for a jog or
Speaker 3:
16:12
brands actually really want that. They want to see us real. Um, I posted my first phone photo the other day of Ali and I even said it on my, on my caption that this is probably temporary, but I'm posting a phone photo because he's being really cute right now. So, and it got a lot of comments and it got a lot of likes. So people want that. Brands want that. Brands want to see real life. Brands are asking me like I took a picture of something on the beach and they were like, you wouldn't use to on the beach. Should we bring this into your house and use it in your house? And I'm like, I have to bring it upstairs because I had better lighting upstairs. I have to like, I have to like figure it out a different way and be more creative with my brand content. I kind of like it. It's stretching my creativity.
Speaker 1:
16:54
I love that, you know? Do you think, you know, I'll go back to Amber and then, um, Dominique, but do you think that the total follower account at any point will also disappear? You know, if they're beginning with this as being like, just authentic content, be yourself, um, and people can then find that regardless of necessarily who you are, do you think the follower count will become irrelevant at some point?
Speaker 3:
17:19
Um, they were, they took away something the other day. It was like where you could follow your newsfeed and like, it was like you could follow other people's newsfeed or you could follow your own. Masery took it away the other day and everybody was freaking out that whenever he said that they were taking away followings and I just, I don't see that happening. I don't see them taking away that number yet.
Speaker 1:
17:39
Okay. Dominique, your thoughts?
Speaker 4:
17:42
Yeah. I don't either. I feel that would cause a lot of outrage. People worked very hard to get their followers where that's something that actually reflects your business, not individual post. I think that would have a much a worse effect on people that put a lot of money and resources and time into building that following.
Speaker 1:
17:58
Yeah, that makes sense. Um, you know, do you think in your mind, do likes even matter anymore? Um, you know, with things moving towards story layouts or full video layouts, um, you know, D is a like even something that that is even relevant. Should they just disappear altogether?
Speaker 3:
18:21
Oh no, no, no, no. Um, Eva Chen said something that people will either like your photo or they will watch your video. So as videos are becoming more popular, people won't be liking as much. They'll just watch your videos. So that view count might become more popular than your actual light count.
Speaker 1:
18:38
That's great. Dominique.
Speaker 4:
18:40
Yeah, I, I agree with what Amber said. I was going to go a similar direction too. Cause when you post a video now, when they show the view count, that's kind of what I've been focusing on. Cause that's ultimately your reach and how many people you're getting in front of. And it's, I think that's a little more accurate of a, of a metric because a lot of people watch and they may like your content and they don't like it anyway. I have a lot of people that'll message me and say, Hey, I love, uh, I love your posts is very helpful in that they didn't like it. So I mean sometimes the like isn't always the best metric anyway.
Speaker 1:
19:09
Yeah. Yeah. Now it's, it's just crazy to see how much has changed with the industry over the last, you know, 10 years. And this is just, it's a big change that I think a lot of people initially were kind of freaking out over. I think there are some, some really positive upsides that can come from this. Um, and it's just, it's extremely, uh, interesting to see how it will transpire kind of moving forward, um, to, to close up this podcast. You know, let's go back. Uh, you know, Amber's lots of stuff is changing. Is there any advice you would give to other, you know, businesses or influencers or people that are trying to grow your, their following or grow their business using Instagram as a platform, uh, that you would give to them?
Speaker 3:
19:55
Um, post every day. Show up on the platform every day. If you don't post a picture, post stories, post quotes, just show up every single day. And I think they'll grow. If you show up everyday and you consistently post good foe, good content and you can, you consistently post what you're doing that day and how you're feeling and trying to reach out to people. I think it shows, I think it helps. So I think just daily showing up is what is a big deal in Instagram for me.
Speaker 1:
20:23
That's wonderful advice. Dominique, any final words?
Speaker 4:
20:27
Yeah, my first one would be don't get discouraged. It's going to be tough to build it. Don't expect a lot right away. And then just, uh, make sure you're just being authentic and engaging with other people the way that you would like to be engaged with. I spent a decent amount of time everyday going on, leaving some positive comments on other people's accounts and on basically what I would want in my account. I go on delivery. You can't expect to go this account must have your, some huge celebrity and have everyone just come and say how awesome your pages without you giving something first in return. So you have to, you have to put in the work and just don't get discouraged and you'll eventually, uh, you'll eventually get there.
Speaker 1:
21:02
Oh I love that. You know, it's, it's interesting cause you know, we work a lot in social media or social advertising and so many times I see people that forget that it's a social element that there's other people and you know, they'll, they'll put something up and be like, that's it. I don't want to ever comment back to them. Or someone will say something to them and they're like, I don't have time for that. And I'm like, you're missing, you're missing the point. Like there is that social component, like have those conversations engage with people and you never know what can come from that or what relationships can get built. Um, and the truth is that is how relationships are built is they're built through the back and forth of communication. Um, and it's always just so critical to be able to, to have those conversations when you can. Well, I wanted to thank you guys both for being on the show today. Um, it was this fantastic. If, if anyone wants to reach out, please, uh, contact or follow Amber, um, and also check out Dominique. But, uh, until next time, have a wonderful day and we'll see you guys later.
Speaker 4:
22:00
Thank you. Thanks for having a sprain.
Speaker 2:
22:02
Thank you for listening to the Duke of digital podcast with Brian Mitt, one to network with other business owners. Join our exclusive group at facebook.com/groups/you have digital fancy the Duke. Leave a five star review on your favorite podcast app. And you can be mentioned on the show. The Duke of digital was produced by advertisement and recorded in Hollywood, California. All rights reserved.
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