Duke of Digital

016 - The Future of Social Media: 2020 Predictions with Gavin McGarry

December 04, 2019
Duke of Digital
016 - The Future of Social Media: 2020 Predictions with Gavin McGarry
Chapters
Duke of Digital
016 - The Future of Social Media: 2020 Predictions with Gavin McGarry
Dec 04, 2019
Brian Meert
Show Notes Transcript
Speaker 1:
0:00
Social media is changing rapidly and you don't want to be left behind. Raise those pinkies because we just got back from our time traveling DeLorean and we can tell you all about what's going to happen with the future of social media
Speaker 2:
0:14
presented by advertisement. The Duke of digital will guide you through the rapidly changing landscape of digital marketing, social media, and how to grow your business online. To submit a question for the show, text (323) 821-2044 or visit Duke of digital.com if you need an expert to fix your ads, the friendly team at advertisement is ready to help visit advertisement. That's M I N t.com or call (844) 236-4686 to grow your [inaudible].
Speaker 3:
0:49
Here's your host Brian Mitt.
Speaker 1:
0:53
All right, I'm really excited today because we have a very special guest. Gavin McGarry the founder and CEO of jump wire media. Uh, I mean you have been, you're a social media agency. You were ranked one of the fastest company or fast company's top 10 innovative companies. You've worked for clients like red bull. Sony, Fandango, Lionsgate, AMC, Yahoo. I can go on and on, but we only have so much time and you've got over 20 years of experience in advertising, marketing, branding, and as if that's not enough. You're also a radio host for social media chaos on K ABC. Did I miss anything?
Speaker 3:
1:34
Well, you can keep going. I like this. It's very rare that I get this opportunity to have do 45 minutes of this, just 45 minutes about me. I like me. Yeah, no, it's been, I mean, it's a great business to be in. I mean, you're in it. We're in it. It's, it's, I think it's crushing people right now. Yeah. I think that a lot of people don't understand how difficult it is to do social media. I think that most people in the real world think that it's super easy. All just put something up. They don't understand how often Facebook breaks. They don't understand that Twitter's not working. They don't understand that Instagram doesn't work, that the stories are, that they go up and sometimes they break. They don't understand. You can only have five people, you know, five clients. On an Instagram business account to switch between.
Speaker 3:
2:15
So you need, I mean the thing that we're trying to convey I think to everyone is how difficult it is. Yeah. Because if you don't, people won't understand all for sure. And to add a little bit of context, the first time you and I ever met was you gave a presentation in Santa Monica [inaudible] and I remember going to this, we were just talking about this before the show and you said I was late when I came in and I was like, Oh man. But I remember walking in and I, you know, I watch a lot, I stay up to date
Speaker 1:
2:44
in my industry, you know, in social media or digital marketing and there's a lot of people that'll talk and you're just like, Aw man, this is rough to get through. And I remember walking in to your presentation and just being blown out away in terms of were like, this is what is coming, this is how, and it was fast paced and quick and I was like, I can't bleak. And the stuff that you were talking about was so cutting edge at that time. And I was like, this guy is on the very, very forefront. So I think from the first day I went up afterwards, I was like, I want to meet you. And we, you know, we've been friends for awhile now and uh, you know, and I, we work with you guys. I mean, you guys do a lot of our ad buying.
Speaker 1:
3:25
Um, and because you're really good at it, um, and you're, uh, you're one of the, and you have a book and I really respected the fact that you have a book because for what I do, I can't really have a book. The problem is, is that you're right, like, you know, two or three years ago and in six months everything's out of date. Oh yeah. Yeah. So I do have a book, it's a complete guide to Facebook advertising. We updated, have you got a new version? There is a new version. It was uploaded to Amazon two days ago and it's waiting to clear. So the 2020 edition is coming out. What happens is we write it every year and within about six months people will come on and be like, no, that feature is not there anymore. And they get upset. You redo that book every six months, every year, every year.
Speaker 1:
4:06
So we wanted to do it like what changed this year? Oh, tons of stuff. I basically, we sat down and I'm like, Oh, let me just remind you a podcast on it when it comes out and we get the printed Virgin in our hands so that we have to order it and it takes about a week for it to get here. Um, so give me a top line, like what was the biggest change that you put in the book from this book to this book? You're like, this was the biggest ads. Facebook ads change. I mean, we, we added a lot about Instagram, uh, and posting ads directly through the Instagram app. You know, that's something that we had never done before. We did a lot more with messenger bots. Um, there's a lot of changes that have happened with ad targeting. There's, you talk about tick talk at all or, no, not necessarily in the book cause it's all Facebook advertising.
Speaker 1:
4:43
But we can do another one on one clock tick tock, tick tock, everything is fine. Books clearly I haven't read the book. It changes so fast that it is very, very, uh, rough to, to stay up with it. But what's the flip side of that is the people that do get the book are so, you know, I get a lot of emails from people that read it and they're like, thank you for breaking this down because everything on the internet is a mess. You know, I don't know what was written, you know, three years ago or what was written a week ago. I mean sometimes they have days, but there's so much information, it's tough to, to kind of switch for a long time to make that book. Don't you go away for like a whole week and right away we started that this year where we just went to a cabin up in the mountains and we sat down and took out everything else and just wrote and wrote and wrote.
Speaker 1:
5:30
And we basically rewrote like I'd say 80% of the book, which is just frustrates like 400 pages long. It is a year that you have to rewrite an entire book. What's crazy is it's almost, it's a little healing because I get to get out everything that's in there, which it's in the head cause so much stuff is changing and you know, it's a, it's a rapid paced environment. But the minute that I get to sit down and be like, here is how this works, and explain it in easy terms for someone that is just starting out or trying to get up to speed and keep it simple. I mean, here's this complex new thing that's going on and here, let me try to break it down in five steps and then tell you why it's important. So you get an understanding of what that tool is and how you can use it.
Speaker 1:
6:14
So anyway, I think it's, it's wears me out for sure. But it's good when it's, I'm very impressed because I, that I've been trying to write a book for three or four years. I have editors, I have people that are ready to do it and, but I just can't because literally in a month that's out of, it's out of date. By the time you get to where it's finished, it's something else is a, it's come up. So well that's partially what I wanted to talk about today for the show, which is social media is changing fast. Um, and what should people expect in the year 20, 20, you know, the next year that's coming up, you know, in the future of social media. And the reason why I wanted you to be on this show specifically you have everyone on planet earth is because you are on the forefront of so many elements in the world of social media.
Speaker 1:
7:00
I know you were saying a lot of things about your company has changed in terms of how you work with clients in, in regards to social media. Um, so much stuff with organic and versus paid versus platforms that are coming and going. Um, you know, walk me through what are some of the biggest maybe changes you've seen over the past, you know, in the past year and then what you think are some of the things that will potentially change in the future? Right now? I think it's a bit of a, for us in the agency business is a bit of a race to the bottom. So people don't want to spend very much money. They want a lot and they don't really understand how difficult it is. Yeah. So I think our biggest challenge in the next year or so is, uh, is educating people is making people understand just how difficult that is and the proliferation of platforms is a real problem, right?
Speaker 1:
7:54
Because now you've got tick tock growing at a crazy rate. Um, we've got mixer is challenging. YouTube, we've got like, you know, it's, it's now for every area. It's not just one place. You can't just go to Facebook, you can't, you have to be very specific and you have to understand the platforms. What keeps me up at night all the time is that we're trying to stay on top of all of these platforms, right? Facebook cause we do a jump wire to plug us a little bit. We go and audit, right? So you come to us and we do a very, for your company, we do an audit for you and it's a 70 page. It takes a week, 10 days to do. It's super in depth. That takes us many hours. We do an hour presentation with you and it should blow your mind right at the end of it. If it doesn't, we'll give you your money back. I've seen the reports and they blew my mind. Right? And I saw it and that's good because you know, I really respect your um, insights into the space because you're here with me. So it's, and it really hard to keep up UpToDate and we're adding stuff to them all the time. Then the second thing we do is optimization. So you can only buy two products, jump wire before you put
Speaker 3:
8:56
us on retainer. Right? So what we were having is the same problem you were having is that is that people would come to us for a retainer and we would start doing the retainer. This is inside baseball, I'm sorry, but this is the agency world. So they would, they would come to us for a retainer and we would start working with them, right? And then we realized they had no idea what they were talking about. Like they didn't know anything about social media. So they would start getting mad at mad at us. They say, well, why are we not multimillionaires now? I'm like, what? Yeah. Right. Because they don't understand exactly what's wrong with their own social media. So that's why we went to the audit. And then the next thing we decided to do is that after we do an audit, we do an optimization.
Speaker 3:
9:31
And to give you an example about how many things, how many things are changing. So on Facebook, when we go and do an optimization on a Facebook page, just a page. Yep. It's 126 levers that we have to pull. And each one of those have a breakdown into how that setting should be done. Now if you set them correctly and we've done very big brands that you all know that had all their settings wrong, we reset them and they had like 5 million fans there increased their engagement, went up 25% in 24 hours. Yeah. Right. So I think that [inaudible] to come back to your, to the main part of your question is that what is the future is the future is it's changing so quickly that no one really knows and what you do on personal social media as compared to what you should be doing for your business are almost two totally different things now.
Speaker 3:
10:20
Yeah. And Amanda to touch on that, it's something that is fascinating and I guess what I see happening is a lot of people are like, yeah, I know social media. And so, you know, when we've worked with companies or brands, a lot of times they're like, Oh there's this a 20 year old that just, you know, was in college and they'll come in and they'll do it. And they think that just someone watching that area is, is good. And what's fascinating is when you see, because we have a lot of clients that will come to us that we get to see, you know, under the hood and be like, let's see where things are at. And you can be able to see clients that are doing things the right way or have great teams working with them versus a competitor of that client. It's like, well we hired someone for, you know, minimum wage and they're, they're doing the basic social media, the social media, social media, right.
Speaker 3:
11:14
And be like, Oh my gosh, I wish I could show you the difference in what you're able to get when you're doing it at it's most effective in the most effective way. Well it's like the car business, right? It's like there's hundreds of different types of cars. Well the same thing in social media. If you want to go and buy a car, you've got to do a ton of research as to what no, some people will just go, I want that car. Cause I've always had those cars and I'm always going to keep them. Other people like, well I should do comparison. If you do comparison shopping for cars, you're going to be in a world of hurt, right? It, there is so many different variables now and that's why brands are important. That's why for a jump wire, we've been 10 years so people come to us that, Oh these guys must know what they're talking about, but they sometimes second guess they're like, well there, they've been around 10 years, they probably don't know what's going on.
Speaker 3:
12:02
Our job is to stay on top of this stuff all the time and it's very, it's extremely difficult and I think that what we're morphing into is is we're now actually buying, so we're getting investors and we're going in and buying up brands and doing the social media for it because we're so good at what we do. That's awesome. We would go in and work for a client for a year and they'd say, okay, we got it. Thanks. Well, we're going to hire a bunch of, you know, 25 year olds to do what you guys have spent a year. And then they come back to us a year later and say, yeah, that didn't work. We, everything got broken. We don't understand where we're supposed to be going cause it'll all change. I know you've probably had the same example, so, or the same experience. So for me really is that I now want to own a piece of the action.
Speaker 3:
12:42
Like I'm like if you have a company, if you're listening to this right now and you would look to get, if you, we have investors, so I've partnered with investors and I'm going into companies and I'm saying, okay, listen, you're marketing, your digital marketing is not great. Right? And we can increase the company and we, you know, we have these NBA guys that look at it and then we buy into the company. Now I'm sort of almost a partner. So there's something in there for me and I just, you know, recoup from that, that, that, and if it works, great. If it doesn't out of 10, we might get to that work that we can X and, and so we're trying that sort of system now because it either you're going to have a huge agency that's going to come in and do all the work or you're going to have a person working from home, like the basement people, which is fine.
Speaker 3:
13:26
Right. And they, some of them do a really great job, I have to say. You know, they're, they're awesome, but they're in the middle. There really isn't anything anymore. Yeah. I've always told, you know, is I've talked to the other business owners and sometimes at like parties or networking events, they're like, what's your advice? And I'm like, find the best person at every, in every area that you can hire and get them on your team. And I, I've just never seen that advice vice go wrong is find the person that knows the most about social media. Find the person that knows the most about SEO, uh, companies that are like, yeah, we do everything usually aren't the best at everything. So you want to be able to get to people that understand the changes that are happening. I mean, the number of times we've been able to get clients into new features on Facebook months before anyone else and these, these clients are just picking up.
Speaker 3:
14:20
Um, well these are results is right. Like your, uh, we are so specific that we're both in social media and have completely different businesses, right? Like we use you for our ad buying because yeah, we have people who know, understand that sort of stuff. But I want the best. Yep. So I go to you, right, because that's all you do and all I do is do this stuff over top. The strategies, the pulling together, you know, do the organic posting, talking about the stuff. You want to know what the future is. It's all about groups. Nike and Apple have not posted on their Facebook page in a year, right? That's how bad Facebook pages are. So everyone's moved everything into groups and we tell people and they're like, really? I'm like, yeah. Didn't your social media team of 10 people tell you that all for sure.
Speaker 3:
15:02
No. So I think that there needs to be a certain amount of R and D and I think the benefit for company working with companies like us because I'm doing my sales pitch now, but the reason is that because you know, when people come to us, we hire you. We have an SEO team, that's one of the best we have. Um, you know, we use a data science company. Like that's the first place we go. We go to the data science, right? So all the stuff around email cause it's all to work together. Right. And if it doesn't and you know, you're asking about the future, if this stuff doesn't work together, what's really interesting in the products that we've been, projects we've been working on, small, tiny nuances online can lead to your business being successful or dead. Yeah. Like small. So true. So true.
Speaker 3:
15:48
All right, let's do this. Um, let's do a little fun example here. I've got in my hands. 20 GS. Yeah, thank you. Uh, prop money. It's not real money. I know you're wow man. But it looks like real money and I've heard that people used it, which is why you can no longer buy, buy this. But if you had $20,000 right now as a business, where would you spend it in the world of social media? What would you focus on? Where would it go? Uh, and you had to spend it within 30 days? It's a great question. I would, if I wouldn't spend it in 30 days. Okay. So I would push back on you. Okay. But $20,000 I would use it. So the way we do it with our clients is we're like testing, testing, testing. So we have a very set system at Guidewire, how we do social.
Speaker 3:
16:33
It's like crawl, walk, run data, strategy, implementation. Got it. So we look at the data first. So I would probably spend, um, I probably spend about $5,000 on analysis. So I would do an audit of all the social media. I would hire somebody to do that. I would do an audit, possibly have any ads that you're running, hire you guys to do that. I would do an SEO audit, you know, which is going to run around a thousand bucks. Um, you know, our audits are about 2,500, 5,000 to $2,500, depending on how big the audit is. So you know, with with the first maybe you know, five to 7,000, I would do auditing and really get an indication of how the, the, the business is looking. And for our audit and your audit, our audit, we do up to eight competitors. So we get people's competitors and I, and I would say is that during that auditing process, what's really happening, whether you're using our agency or other agencies, is that the agencies are learning about your business because they're asking you difficult questions.
Speaker 3:
17:30
The number of times that I've said to a business, can I have eight of your competitors to say, I don't have any competitors. Oh, I'll write like even me sometimes I'm like, there are no competitors. I'm the greatest. But then we come back to them and say, listen, here are four or five companies that are similar to yours, right, that are doing a better job than yours. That's when they perk up and they're like, what? Yup. Right. So that's where I'd spend the first amount. I love it. Then the second amount is I would say, uh, if it was a, it would depend on the business, right? So if it was a product and econ product, so for example, something online that sold online, I would probably do like you and I do, I would do a $5,000 test. You know, I would spend, I would make a video, I would do a small spend over a month and I would take a look at that at the end of it and do the analysis with you guys, uh, and sit down and say, okay, this really worked, right?
Speaker 3:
18:16
This is where it's going to go. Now we're going to dump the money in. And we've been doing this with you, with about, I think about five or six clients and it, when it works, it's great. When it doesn't, we know when to kill it and you haven't spent a lot of money. So now I'm probably around 10 grand, 10 grand gone. Right, right. So now I've got another 10 grand. So now it's doubling down on things. So it's either fixing things that are broken. Usually it's the website, right? And I would not say redoing your whole website, but depending on the product and the type of product, you're probably going to spend about 10 grand just redoing, having a good website. Everyone's like, well, you can get a Squarespace website or a Wix website. I'm like, yes you can. You absolutely can. You will have no SEO, no search engine optimization at all.
Speaker 3:
18:55
It's very difficult to get that on. So you need a WordPress site. WordPress is still quite complicated. So I would probably say you're going to spend a bunch there then at the, then once you've spent that 20 grand, you will have done that over three months, probably three to six months, right? Like be realistic. It's going to take three to six months to get all this data, get everything figured out, find all the passwords, get the sites bill, blah, blah, blah, blah, do all the testing. Then at the end of that, you should know exactly how much you need to spend to acquire new customers that are going to generate an increase your business and what you just went through in the last two minutes is a golden nugget. If anyone's listening, go back and listen to that again because he literally just broke down the blueprint of how do you, can we edit this out because basically I've given away my, I know it's difficult and then that's the next step is every everyone online, you see a bunch of videos.
Speaker 3:
19:53
There was like Jeezy, look, I did. I made millions of dollars overnight. It takes work. You've got to know what you're doing. And there's all these scammers, and I want to talk about this because it's starting to have, you're going to get hit on LinkedIn by people who are going to promise you stuff and they're going to promise you that they can get you leads for your business, that they're going to develop it. It, many of it, most of it is a scam. And what I would say is do this. This is how you get rid of these scammers. Say you want to do it performance-based for two months, meaning that they work for you for free on your business. And if they bring in the leads that you need for your business, you will double down for a year, right? I've done this. I have had no one take me up and I get hit every cause.
Speaker 3:
20:34
I'm an agency. They all, it's all these businesses that are working on B2B businesses for us. And so that's all I can really talk about. And my clients get hit with it too. They're like, well, you know, why should we use you? We've got this guy, these guys that are, they're going to come in and they're going to, they're going to get us tons of leads. Just, uh, they can tell who's hit our website and what they're gonna do is they're gonna go and show it and then I can call that person up. I'm like, really? You're going to call it? Who are you going to call at the diff, you know, the unit, the U S defense force, you know, that hit your website. Cause they were looking for something like who, who, who, how is this all gonna work for you? So I think they'd be very, very careful of these scams.
Speaker 3:
21:10
Um, and understand and, and, and ask difficult questions. Like if we, if you came to work with us or they come to work with you, if people don't ask me the difficult questions, I say to them and saying, that's why we do an audit. I'm like, how do you know I'm any good at what I do? Oh well it looks like you know what you're doing. It looks like I know what I'm doing. How do you know that I can do that? That's why we do an audit because of the end of that audit. Because really in our business, it's about trust. You're building trust. So if someone's coming to you and saying, you got to pay me $2,500 or $5,000 a month and I'm going to get you all these leads, that's not trust, there's taking your money. Right. Because if they don't deliver it, there's no pain for them. Make it painful for them by saying, give me two months for free.
Speaker 1:
21:52
Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I really do, would emphasize talking with people, hearing what they have to say. And, and generally a lot what I see on the internet when you talk about scammers or stuff is, you know, it'll be people like, Oh, I know the secret. I know the secret. If that is immediately followed up with buy my course or buy something or give me money before I ever do a bit of work for you or show you that I can do it, uh, I'm like, you should run. I mean, I would say at that point, you know you are, you're buying a product, you're not buying necessarily an expert, someone who's trying to get you with a hook, trying to make a little bit of money online and be able to go Java the world as opposed to find people that are knowledgeable, they have a team and that want to work every day that love it, that are passionate about it. It's not about a quick sale, it's about someone that lives and breeze the area. You know when you're hiring an agency and be like, get these people on my side. I want, I want an all star team. I don't want a bunch of guys that played a little bit of high school ball but can talk all day.
Speaker 3:
22:59
Here's two things that we always take into consideration that you should always be thinking about as a client with an agency or as a client for something you should be looking at narrative and measurement. Those are the two key things that we ask about. So what is the story narrative? How are they going to tell your story online? So what are they gonna say about your company? How is it going to gel? How is it going to build trust with the consumer to lead to sales. Yep. And then the other one is measurement. How are they going to measure that they're doing the right job. Those are two things that if we can't do those for you, your company or my company, we shouldn't be in business. And all we're doing all the time is measuring stuff and Google is broken all the time. Facebook is broken all the time.
Speaker 3:
23:37
But if you are not measuring, you don't know where you're, you don't know that little nuance where you'll find that little gold mine and trust. If you find that gold mine, I've seen so many businesses go from eh to millions of dollars. I know we've built them. That's why I'm so upset. Yeah, cause we didn't get a part of that. You know, it's funny because we, I'd call it a little bit like blinders, but generally when people are working, at least in the advertising space, they see their account, they see what they're spending, they look at stuff and they're like, Hey look, this is great. And what happens is we have the ability to see multiple accounts a lot of times with competitors and we see the numbers and we've worked on a couple of projects together where they, you know, large corporations, like we have a team that does this.
Speaker 3:
24:21
And we're like, no, but trust us, let us try. And what comes out of that is sometimes double three times the results of what an entire team is doing, which is just like, ah, it numbers are fine, whatever. And be like you were overpaying to Facebook or to Instagram or to YouTube by a huge amount because you don't know the tweaks or the changes to make inside the system that keep more money inside your pocket than just flowing out to, uh, to those companies. So, I mean all the stuff on Facebook, I mean the stuff that we learned recently was that we did a test with Facebook ads with your guys and you know, we had a product and we sold it for $49 and it cost us, I don't know, like say 10 bucks. Then we increased the product up to $127 there's an online course and someone said, Oh yeah, all of a sudden our costs went from $10 to $40 per acquisition.
Speaker 3:
25:13
I'm like, nothing changed other than the price. Then we brought it back down to like 69 bucks and all of a sudden it dropped back down to 15 so what we figured out is that Facebook knows the price you're selling stuff for and are and just charges you what they think you can take for that price. And that's the AI. Yeah. And that is the future of what's happening is this whole pay to play. And it's, I know a lot of people in social media, like I talked to them on a regular basis. Everyone is burnt out. Everyone is so tired of being abused by Facebook and Instagram and all that sorta stuff. That's why as a client, if you are sitting across from someone in an agency and you think these guys don't look that happy, it's because we can't get anything to work because we're constantly being hamstrung by the platforms. Right. So I've zagged because part of my job is strategy and I'm looking two years out. That's why I'm doing a REA radio show on KBC, which you can listen to anytime you want. But I'm doing radio because what's the one thing that radio can do that podcasting can't?
Speaker 3:
26:13
What is the one thing that radio is very good at that, I'll give you another word. Live radio is really good at the podcasting isn't, I'm drawing a blank on this Collins. Oh, okay. Right. Yeah. Radio allows people, cause there's people listening in a broadcast environment, generally older, they have money. So it's generally 45 plus. Same as the Facebook world. But the thing about that is that they can call in, right. And that story, that narrative is great. Now the show I'm doing, it's sometimes hard to get colors but when we get colors you can hear everyone in the studio cause there's a bunch of us all low. Um, you know zone in because we're talking about people's businesses we're having, we're talking about stories and that's why it goes back to narrative and measurement, right? That whole narrative and measurement world is really important because if you can get that right then you can start playing around with your brand.
Speaker 3:
27:06
If you're tracking it and you can understand where things are changing and you understand the platform. I'm sure we've told a lot of people here today things that they didn't realize. Setting your price for Facebook is really important cause they're going to take a lot, a lot of it, you're not going to get this, this whole idea that, that that you can buy Facebook ads for like cents on the dollar. Very difficult. Yeah. Well this, let's do this. I want to jump back on some of the big changes that happened in the last year by platform. So let's run down there and we'll do a rapid fire Instagram. They, they took away likes, uh, they removed the followers tab. Uh, they had shopping posts, uh, as ads, you know, what are your thoughts on Instagram and the changes that they've kind of made with the platform? Um, yeah, I, I mean I'm, I'm really sorry, but tic talks blowing everyone away.
Speaker 3:
27:53
I don't even look at other, I met on my own Instagram. I just did my Instagram post to my story. I'm moving everything to tick talk. It is the, it is the best platform out there at the moment with the music. Uh, you know, musically, uh, I mean I met a a 27 year old kid, um, who a 23 year old kid who just got a multimillion dollar deal from one of the big record companies because his particular, uh, uh, song got picked up on tick tock tick tock, a bidding war. Yup. Millions of dollars. This kid has never put out anything anywhere. Right. He just was picked up on, tick-tock was used in a bunch of videos. So for me right now, everything is about Tech-Talk. I'm all, I only care about tick-tock for Instagram. I think getting rid of the founders was a huge mistake and I that always happens.
Speaker 3:
28:39
Uh, you know, it's, it's, it's the world of CSEC and that's it. Um, uh, you know, the WhatsApp guy's gone. Uh, that is all gonna come together. We're seeing a lot of backend things that are starting to happen with, um, Facebook taking some of the best things of Instagram and Instagram, really not innovating fast enough. Even Snapchat is innovating fast enough, innovating faster. However, the removal of the likes is interesting. I'm going to see what, I don't notice any difference, quite frankly, if you actually tap on the, like I've noticed that they do pop up if you want them. Um, uh, we're more interested in stories at the moment and uh, that, that sort of data. But most people don't know that it's about engagement. Uh, the one thing that I am very, uh, excited about on Instagram is its ability to sell. It's very, very good at selling things, specifically beauty. Um, I've bought shoes and clothing off Instagram and I'm probably not the demo. Um, and I see stuff all the time on there. I think the way they've integrated ads is much better than Facebook. Um, and I think
Speaker 1:
29:42
that a lot more people are using Instagram, but th but the way that the platforms are now, when I ask people what platform, you know, what the number one response I get is I'm over social media. I'm not on any, Oh yes, I've heard that. I've heard that a couple of times. They don't believe them. I obviously don't believe in, cause I see the data, but I do hear that a lot where they're like, ah, I don't really go on social media that much. Um, and again, you're, you're right on with the data which is behind it, which is they still do and there's still massive user numbers. Um, but it is interesting to see how the landscape is changing. So let's jump to tick talk. You know, you mentioned that we've had a couple other people on this show. We've gone through tick talk, um, you know, does somebody say I'm a, I'm a fan of it.
Speaker 1:
30:21
Um, it's fun getting on there. Um, you've even, have you been doing ads on it yet? Uh, we have, we've talked to a couple of clients, uh, about it, it's, it's not like Facebook where there's a ad platform, you have to work with a media buying team and put together by, so it's a little bit slower. Um, kinda like Facebook or Snapchat was before they built their self service platform. I imagine at the rate they're growing, it'll come at some point very soon. So at some point there probably will be a complete guide to tick tock ads to or, right. Uh, well how about Snapchat ads? What are you finding out? I'm, I'm really bullish on that platform right now. I think that they've really, they, they went away for about 18 months. They really retooled their ads platform and I've been very impressed. I think the ads platform that they've built is fantastic.
Speaker 1:
31:06
Not only that, but I think the creative tools that they provide are very, very good. I mean, I think creative is probably the most underrated element in advertising that people think it's about the targeting or this or that. If you have great creatives, you are upset and it's a process of you just got to keep going with creatives again and again and again. You're testing like tons of different versions all the time, all the time. I mean, our rule of thumb is to never show the same ad to someone more than twice. So I mean, imagine if you're, I mean there's, I have a friend that's in a, a capital one ad and because I know her, uh, I've seen this ad, you know, when it comes on to you, I'm like, Hey, that's her ad probably 400 times on television, on television, on the internet, everywhere, you know, capital one just like, let's just blast this ad and that will, you know, Jennifer Garner, that's great.
Speaker 1:
32:00
Fs isn't, she kept, it's not Jennifer Gardner, but, uh, it is another actress. But it's, it's funny because it just, in that world, you overpay so much by taking the same ad and running it again and again and again versus if Facebook's optimized for, for new content. I mean it's, I mean, we could spend hours on this because I think that, and I know we don't want to, but the, it's very difficult right now out there. And I think the testing is so important. And I will say this, you know, we are a digital marketing agency essentially. And people come to me because I've been doing this for a long time and I've seen everything
Speaker 3:
32:40
but the difference between, I would say that you may want to consider getting older people on your brand. Here's why. Um, the what, how the young guys really know a lot of the new technology, but we went and worked with a client, um, and uh, they came to me and I looked at all the data and they just wanted to buy Facebook ads and I said, they, they happen to sell tickets for a, uh, a festival. Yeah. And I said, you're, I, we looked at all the data and they're like, why do you want to look at that? And I'm like, you've ever looked at the data? They're like, no. I said, well, where are all the tickets sold? So we got all the ticket sales and we look that in the last seven days of towards the festival, all of their tickets were sold within a 10 mile radius.
Speaker 3:
33:19
Right. We just noticed we could see where people were buying them and all that sort of stuff. So we didn't say, well you could buy Facebook ads if you want, but why don't you put together like a red bull type a team that goes out and experiential team? Well they sold 70 or $80,000 worth of tickets in seven days, 10,000 a day that they never sold before because we had saw that data point and that's also because I was prepared to say this is not a digital solution. And I think that a lot of the things that are happening out there right now are not necessarily digital solutions. You can buy a thousand postcards and have them sent out from this company for like, I think it's a dollar 50 if you have all the addresses of people, even if you just have their email address, they'll send out these postcards. Well, I think that you have to really understand the narrative of your brand and I go back to exactly what you said with the capital one thing is that they are, there is the opportunity to do so much brand damage so quickly because people see your brand too much. Right. This is the number one thing we're working with our clients. Not that their brands are being seen a lot, but that they're being seen too much and people are like, I don't want to touch that brand. They're everywhere.
Speaker 1:
34:24
It's, I mean for me, what I've noticed is at sometimes it feels what goes into traditional branding now is annoying. It's boring. It's you're, you're, you're just like, I'm going to reach you with this same message again and again again until you can remember it. And I'm like, all you've done with people with mobile phones that are moving at the speed of light is bore them and be like, I've seen that. Why would I look at it again? Like it's already there. Pass, go over it, you know, and but still get angry. They get frustrated. Why am I seeing this all the days. Yeah. And it's funny to see that happen, but there's someone else on the back end of a computer somewhere setting these up being like, yeah look, we reached the same person 50 times. Look at our branding, we're making them know about us and our brand literally just piss someone off and, and and know, I dunno it like no one talks about brand fatigue. No.
Speaker 3:
35:17
Come to us and like just I just want to sell as much as possible. I'm like well now in this world we're walking around with super power weapons. We can get to people once we have your email address.
Speaker 1:
35:28
Yeah. That, that mobile numbers. I mean it is the tools that we have today versus 20 years ago in the world of advertising or marketing
Speaker 3:
35:38
are mind blowing and how different they are in your ability with a phone in your pocket to record something and reach millions of people within seconds a is so powerful to impact press, to do everything. And I think that that's the one thing we're working on when we were talking about the future of stuff. So everything that we're working on is called about is about controlling the lock screen. So owning the lock screen. So a big movement for us is moving into SMS. So, uh, texting. So you know, texting, we were able to sell for this company. They had a bunch of phone numbers and we were able to sell tickets to these people. We emailed, we texted them once and said we are never going to text you again because we've never texted you before, but tickets are on sale. We sold 10,000 tickets in two hours.
Speaker 3:
36:25
Like it was insane because people could see it on the lock screen. And then we notice something very interesting a week before the event we could see people, cause we had links in there, Bitly links, we could see people going on and they were going through their texts and finding the texts and buying tickets. They were coming back to it a month later because they had it as a reference. So owning the lock screen, that means notifications and SMS. I think SMS in America is underutilized in terms of marketing. Yeah. Oh I would think so as well. I mean, we've talked a little bit about kind of messenger marketing within, you know, messenger that alight relates to CSM taking off. I just, I mean you must have some clients that are doing it. I'm just not, I keep asking people how many of you use messenger and not that many people do, but yet I use it all day with people.
Speaker 3:
37:12
So I think it's one of those things where people are like, well I don't really use it, but they do. So I mean what I've seen it work very well is the same way when you call your credit card company, you know what it's like, Hey press one or press two, Hey you want this department, that one. You know what kind of routes people through stuff, you do it all the time, which is kind of a conversation or let me get to where I need to go. It's the same sort of way, but it's on a mobile device without them needing to talk to someone. So in those scenarios were able to walk people through and what it does is on the back end it, it stores all the data. So if everything you tell me I can help piece together the message that I think you're going to want to get at at the end.
Speaker 3:
37:50
And I think that when we find those, you know when you're online, you're having a personal experience and you find that you go right through and it's easy and you've two clicks and you bought something and it's sent to your house and you get exactly what you want, you put it on and you feel like what just happened? Right? Not like I got to the credit card part and I couldn't get my credit card in. Oh they was, you know, it was half off the screen and stuff like that. It's when people have thought through things when it's well thought out and I think that that's probably another thing that people should think is that go and test your own campaigns. Yeah, because the number of people that we go, they've got a campaign running, we go in and where we're looking through it and we're like, what if this doesn't work? They're like, Oh, it was set up by another agency. I'm like, yes. One that didn't think about it. I think it's, you were talking about data and just so true that everything
Speaker 1:
38:36
should start with that. Um, I really think that that's an important thing that a lot of times people can get caught up in the frenzy of, you know, even here today, like tech talk is great. It's going like if you're trying to get, if you're trying to get people into a retirement home, you know, take talks, not the right marketing platform for you. It's, it's a younger demo. It's, it's a lot of younger kids. Maybe at some point it will be. Um, but a lot of times people are like, Oh, tech talks great. Let me run into it. And I would always go back to know the data, look at the data. Where are the people at that you want to reach? What are they doing? How are they interacting? And Facebook is, I mean, I have to say Facebook advertising is, and I, when I say Facebook, I mean Facebook and Instagram, WhatsApp is coming.
Speaker 1:
39:14
It's being integrated in yet it is so powerful. If you get it right, it can sell so much. Yeah, it really, it really, I mean really isn't great. I've seen it happen many, many times and I'm like, man, when all three, it's like a jackpot when all three, you know, numbers line up or you get those three bars where you have the right targeting, the right creative, the right budgets, everything's in line and it's been done the right way. It's like, wow, this is incredible. It really blows everything else out of the water when we do this. I wanted to, to shift, um, last kind of thoughts here is in terms of what's coming for 20, 20, you know, any, I've got a couple of things that I would say I would project, I'll do mine and maybe you can comment on them, um, or, or jump in with anything else.
Speaker 1:
39:59
So one I think the video feed, which is how kick talk has their format, will become mainstream in social meaning people, I'm seeing so many people drawn to that, which is you open the app and a video is playing vertically and then you tap it and it goes in the same way that stories operate. But Instagram isn't only stories, they have the stories and the feed. So they kind of break it apart. I would agree with you. And what most people don't know is that tick-tock is actually quite old. Everyone thinks is super young, but it's actually, there's a lot of 35 plus on it. Um, I think it's growing now. We just had some recent data and I was like, wow, I didn't realize it was old as it was. I thought it was all young kids, but it's not, I thought it was all X binders sort of thing, which were, you know, five or six years ago.
Speaker 1:
40:43
Um, but here I'm going to ask you a difficult question if it doesn't happen. So let's just, let's debate and say, okay, you say that the, the video, it's going to be the video feed. If it wasn't the video feed that was going to be, that's going to be important. What else could it possibly be? Because we're seeing in advertising, right? Like sometimes video doesn't work. It's better just to have a carousel or it's better just have a static, like for example, clothing. You don't want a video with the clothing, you just want to see the clothing and then you want to buy it, click through. So if videos are you talking about video on the content side or video on the ad side, the content side. I'm saying when the general populations, a general population opens an app, what format do they like to consume content the most?
Speaker 1:
41:26
YouTube is in kind of, a lot of it is a widescreen. So you go through, then you have to turn your phone. No, not anymore. Not anymore. No. But not everything is in vertical format on YouTube. So, but they have that, that uh, that, that, that auto right? Like it, it, it, it sizes it to your phone and makes it inverted. So, and what happens is the other apps are trying to create, what is the format that I think that tic talk has I think is the format. I think they own vertical video is is where I think, I mean stories were vertical via Snapchat did that first uh, Instagram took it. Stories are very popular. Uh, I think people like the stories format because it takes up the entire screen. I think you can click through them. I think you, you sit and you're entertained, you can watch a second, you can watch, you know, a longer video and go back and forth.
Speaker 1:
42:13
So I think that that is the format that people are liking as they hold their phone. It's in a vertical format and they're able to just go through and discover what they want and I'm going to build on top of that. I say it's going to be video. Absolutely. I think that that you, um, that being able to click on things in the videos and purchase them. Yes. Right. Like Instagram is doing, uh, where this whole is sort of click to pay and you can click and buy. But I think it will go with AI layer. So an AI layer, it will look at the video and see the golden retriever. Cause now AI used to be just, there's a dog, now it's a golden retriever. They can actually tell between the different species. Next it's going to be like, Oh that's air bud, you know, that sort of thing.
Speaker 1:
42:53
So what will happen is the AI will start looking at what's in the video. You'll be able to click on ports, there'll be little things that'll pop up, like little stars. And you'll be able to click on it and find out more about it. So if someone's holding something and it's a book and you can't really see what the book is, the AI may be able to grab it and say, Oh that's what that book is. Whether you want to buy it or not, it doesn't matter. I mean I think we always think about purchase cause we're in the business are our clients are, was asking us, make me more money. But the real exciting part of it is the videos being clickable, like things that AI doing that that basically a human doesn't have to go through the video and go, okay, look, click on this, that the AI will do it automatically and collect it.
Speaker 1:
43:29
And that actually brings me to my second prediction, which is I think the rise of creative tools and creative automation for both creators and for um, advertisers. And I think on the creative side, you're seeing that with a lot of the focus is around how do you give me the tools, how do you give me the parameters to be as creative as I can be? And I think tic talk has done that in a fantastic way. Whereas Instagram and Facebook is kind of anything that happens and then what just becomes viral kind of does. Um, whereas tick-tock is very much, here's what trending, here's what's on their way, jump in and anyone can be a part of that. And they've done a great job of allowing any person on planet earth to be able to get into that conversation and be seen, I think. And to go a couple of years out on the AI side, I know we've already seen this working, is that AI in real time. So for example, um, there was this company that we were working with, I'm not sure happened with them, but
Speaker 3:
44:32
they were working with some of the big media companies and we got to see some of their technology. They would send out emails to like 60 70,000 people with a video in it. There were video emails, but as people were opening it, they would reedit the video in real time to, depending on what people were watching. So if they were watching further through the video, they would put in a new part of the V. it was, it was, it blew my mind. Wow. And I was like, Oh, I see it. I get it. So if the video wasn't working and it was being sent out in batches of say 5,000 the next 5,000 I actually may get a different video than the first 5,000. So this real time AI, and we all know that Facebook basically is being run by, you know, six guys and an AI computer, right?
Speaker 3:
45:14
We, we already know that. They've put it, Facebook is divided it into three separate AI teams. Now it's huge, right? There's, I don't know how many people are at Facebook, uh, in the, in the 20,000 or so. But at the end of the day, what we found is that no people really work on Facebook anymore. And I think that, I think that this, this coding and how things are working in real time is going to be a big deal. So I 100% agree with you. And we've seen that with some of the AI tools for, um, you know, Facebook ads that they're trying to create, create these videos based on images on a website or things. And they'd try to piece together what looks like a little, uh, like a little slide show where the images slide in or out. And the creative, if I could rate them, would be like a two to three out of 10.
Speaker 3:
46:00
Like it's nothing that I see. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, this has changed my world. I think people are what other people resonate with. Um, and I think these are, this is their attempt of trying to, I think they try to make it look, listen, you think about it like you as a person, an everyday person can buy ads on Facebook. Can you imagine going back 10 or 15 years and saying I could buy ads on TV? No, you have to go through an agency. So what is our job? And that's why I think as a social media agency overall is that we're not an it really an agency. We're just a knowledge base. We have to, we were testing everything all the time. What you're really paying for when you hire an agency is you're, you're paying for all the failures. Cause we've tested everything, right?
Speaker 3:
46:40
You can go and do it yourself, but you're going to fail. Trust me. Like you might get lucky one out of 10 might take off. But my experience has been that many of the times you have to make significant adjustments that still require human brain power. And that is where the future of everything is going is that you're still gonna need the humans, but we're now knowledge workers. We have to keep up and it's exhausting. And that's something that man, I'd love to clear the areas. You know, we work on this all day, every day in this industry. And I don't succeed at every campaign that I build every, you know, it's not always just I'm just hitting home runs again and again. We can put all the best practices in place and something can fail. And what happens is you want to be quick. And that's where the expertise comes in, is to be able to figure out why didn't this work fail? What happened? Fail fast. A lot of times it can be something with Facebook or the platform
Speaker 1:
47:30
and it's, it's knowing where to look and what levers did to change. Black Friday, Facebook went down the Thursday before or something. I mean, and everyone's like freaking out online and we're just like, yeah, this is crazy. It happens. Here's what we do, here's how we act, how we fix it. As opposed to freaking out. And, you know, I've heard a lot of times Facebook doesn't work for me. And I'm like, no, you're doing it wrong. If you've ever said that you or the people who are helping you do it are not doing it the right way. And I think that probably that to start wrapping up and talking about diversification of your brand. Yes. I mean the number, we had a client that had 1.7 million Facebook fans, they were only on Facebook. We told them and told them and told them because we helped them build that, that they need to diversify to Instagram, to Twitter to get an email campaign going.
Speaker 1:
48:16
Guess what? They posted some bad content. They were banned from Facebook for three months. Destroyed their business. Wow. Right? Because they posted some things that were politically, and at the time they were switching over, the AI got ahold of it. They couldn't get ahold of anyone. And that was it. Like they're, they're there. They went down, now they've built back up. But that was six months of their business gone. So you must be platform agnostic. You've gotta diversify your, uh, your audience. And you need to focus on the audience. Like when people work with us, I don't really care about the brand or anything like that. All I care about is the audience because if I get the audience right, they're going to love this brand, right? So they're going to love it. But many people are like most people who are the clients. You guys are thinking about your brand and you have to, that's your job.
Speaker 1:
48:59
But I'm thinking about your audience because if we start thinking about your brand, we're going to get the audience wrong. Oh, it's such a good tip, man. You've just dropped some massive knowledge bombs like that. I love that because it is so true that you know, they come here every week. I'm going to come here all the time cause I just feel like I actually know what I'm talking about. And yet you and I both know that we are super experienced. We do this every day, 24, seven and we know so little. Yeah. Yeah. There's learning every day. Um, all right. Last last prediction that I have for the year 2020, you can tell me what you knew about this. Mobile usage will rise even more. Meaning I think laptops, desktops, that's going to keep declining. I think TV's even still will keep declining. I think mobile disagree videos.
Speaker 1:
49:45
Okay. And I think out of that you're going to have better content in a shorter length of time. Mr. Green people are now wanting massive, massive content in a short period of time so that they can go through a lot of different information. And this would be, I backed this up with I, you know, Disney plus launching where you've got way more content. People have access, no more reason to go to movie theaters or like queen bee, which is a 10 minute long videos. Oh, this is great. So you disagree. I so disagree. Okay, go. I guys, people say this to me, I was on it and I've been doing this a long time. I've been a digital long time. Here's the main thing is that when I worked at Joost, which was the early career thing to Hulu back
Speaker 3:
50:28
in 2006 and 2007 everyone said that everybody wanted shorter content. We had the data on the back end of the platform. We had all the best shows and all that sort of stuff. No people want long, good narrative. They're willing to watch it all the time. When back in 2003 and four when Nokia came out with their first phones that had video on them, people said to me, no one will ever watch a movie on this phone. No one would ever want to. Why would you want to watch a movie on the phone? I was on the trains in London where I was living in the UK. I saw kids watching movies on the phone, so what I disagree with is that I don't think that everyone's going to be on mobile because I'll tell you right now, I was on the weekend with my wife and a group of friends and all the women were doing the black Friday shopping.
Speaker 3:
51:16
They were moving between mobile and um, and desktop. They all had laptops open, they all hauled mobile. They would scan on stuff on, on their lap, on their mobile, but then they would move to the laptop. And I know this because we have been predicting that everything's going to be mobile for five, six, seven years. Ever since this thing came out, it's just not going to happen. There is a better viewing experience with a better screen. Remember tablets, everything's going to be tablet. What happened to the tablet is dead. Like only 3% of purchases are really made on tablets. Right? Because most people don't have tablets they have in them for their kids. And that's it. So and, and the whole Quimby thing, I, I think that they're super smart. I it it 10 minute content. It doesn't matter how long the content is. If the content is engaging, people will watch it.
Speaker 3:
51:59
If it's one minute, three minutes, five minutes, it doesn't mean that all content is going to be that. So we're friends and I'm disagreeing with you and to debate, but I don't believe those types of predictions because the platforms, there may be a platform that has picked up, like right now, I don't know if you're trying the Oculus and using the Oculus world and stuff like that. You have them here and so we have me in the office. So interesting. Right? But that was all supposed to take off and everyone's supposed to be doing everything. They're 30% of the people that put them on throw up, right? No one talks about that. If everyone, if 30% of the people put picked up a phone and threw up, we're going to be doing that. But what is happening is an eye prediction is 30% of the people are picking up a mobile phone trying to buy something and having bad experience and never doing it again.
Speaker 3:
52:40
The issue right now is that the technology, everyone is stampeding to this world of buying things online and they're doing the mobile experience, but the mobile experience is not very good. Shopify hasn't quite got it yet. It's good, but it's still not seamless. There's still little things that I can't quite see this. Oh, the, the, the, the images didn't reformat in the right way. I, I can't, the video doesn't look right, right. That's on Shopify. But you've come from Facebook where you've seen a video that you've put up to buy it, to get there and now you're not having a good experience. And so what people do, and I watch my wife and other people, people who are super shoppers, which 83% of the decisions made in the householder buying decision are made by women. They are the shoppers. When you watch them shop, they all go to their laptops or they go to a desktop because the
Speaker 1:
53:26
experience there, we've had that for longer. Mobile phones are still in their infancy. The browsers aren't good. We've got HTML five that's not working. Are we on apps or like how many of you use apps anymore? Right? Like I barely, I'm all HTML. Like I'm going to websites that are all aiming HTML five app insight app. I mean, it is changing so quickly that I think that's why I sort of disagree is I think that you're not wrong, but I don't think that it's going to be this all pervasive thing. See, I would go with a couple of things. One, I think like the 30 minute TV show is based off of how the world worked in the past with the TV industry. And that's where I think with the shorter content, I think people, what is the perfect length for content? It doesn't really matter, I think, but it's all about like you look at game of Thrones, right?
Speaker 1:
54:16
Perfect example. That's a $9 million an episode right now. Recently Apple plus launched this good morning show with the Jennifer Aniston, Steve Carell and rent a a, no, sorry, a Rebecca, what's her name? I forget. I can't remember to look. Anyway, she's, you know, um, uh, and that is $14 million in episode. Now, if I asked someone, how long is that episode? Right? If you watch the crown, for example, tell me how long those episodes are. No one can tell you, cause some of them we checked, they're not the same length, the same Lake. They're all different lengths, right? Which is amazing, right? There's no ads in it. You watch it completely seamlessly. What's happening with podcasting, right? People are getting burnt out by all the, uh, the commercials. So what are people doing? How are they zigging? Zagging. They're going and buying audible books for 17 bucks or 15 bucks, no commercials.
Speaker 1:
55:09
And I've got 25 hours of content. So there's all these things that are happening that I love following the consumer and the audience because I'm a behave where I spend my time is understanding human behavior and how they interact with the devices. And when you see people actually doing stuff, it is shocking how they hack the world in ways that we hadn't anticipated. Oh, I remember I went to an entertainment event. This had to be like 2000 maybe five. And there was a guy from Google and he said right now on any, this is before the iPhone or right at the beginning of the iPhone. He's like right now any of these phones can hold. It was like, I dunno, 20 hours of video and he was like 10 years from now it will be able to hold 20 years of video. And I remember it'd be like he was saying based on how the technology of the memory cards and the chips were advancing. I remember being like, there's no I did. I was like, I don't think so. And it actually did happen, but it wasn't through the memory chips. It was through streaming that now I, I think the access to content is incredible. And I think what happens is these, my prediction would be that the time that people have in the day is whittling down and there's a lot more noise
Speaker 3:
56:24
to compete with. And I think time is one of those elements where they will spend it with something that's either very, very high quality, but if it's very, very high quality and shorter, I think that that will have an advantage in the coming year. Well we have been for the last five years, a jump wire working on the time wallet. So how much time do you have available to consume content? And it's like in America it's like two to four hours. You know, it's sometimes like some people were watching, remember back in the day, 25 hours a week of television, right? They go home, they sit down and they watch two hours a night, that sort of thing. So if you think that people have that amount, whatever the time, all it is now, um, how are people snacking? Um, how, what is, what do they want throughout their day, what they want in the morning.
Speaker 3:
57:09
I mean there's, there's some, you know, there's a whole generation growing up that have never really listened to news. They, they, their whole thing is like, the news will find me if it's important, it's going to find me. I'm getting an alert on my phone. I don't have to go and listen to the news. Whereas, you know, people like me who grew up going, okay, we're going to listen to the news at six o'clock and everyone's going to tell. So this idea of curation and then there's this whole space of, so what, when we worked with Katie curric, we, you know, we said, Hey listen, you are a trust beacon. Right? That's what hurt the strategy for her. Was that in the end, this is like three or four years ago when she was at Yahoo, we worked with Yahoo and Katie and we said, Katie, you're a trust beacon.
Speaker 3:
57:46
People trust you. So what you say is vetted and real. And that's, and I think that that's what starting brands are starting to become our trust beacons. Do you trust the brand? So anytime a PR a brand does something to do to kill trust or take a chip off, that trust is a serious problem. But what's ended up happening is that what we do want and what we do know, and Elon Musk's launch of the cyber truck, cause there's a whole bunch of conspiracy theories going around that he actually set it up that though, that those would break the glass because if they didn't break the glass, he would only get a certain amount of news coverage by certain. Uh, like mostly the auto things, but because he, it didn't perform, it became a news item and therefore it was covered further around the world. Right.
Speaker 3:
58:30
As opposed to, because Elon Musk failed and he had done, you know, he's a smart guy. He's like, well, everybody wants me to fail, so let's fail, fail. And what did he get? 200,000 orders and $2 billion. So I think that what's really exciting about what's happening here in human behavior is that people are overwhelmed by their phones. But everything, technology breaks are becoming a real thing. Like the number of people that sleep with their phones, that I tell them, take the phone, put it outside of your bedroom, and you will notice a huge difference in your world, right? These things right now, we don't know how to manage this drug, right? And a lot of people are confused, is including me. Like I, I'm not like you. My phone does not control my life, only because I've spent years setting it up so that it doesn't.
Speaker 3:
59:17
But I see the phones controlling other people's lives. So that is a human behavior. And the other thing is too is that people are overwhelmed with choice. And I'll leave you with this one thing when the NHL, because I'm Canadian, would bring over Russian hockey players in the early nineties to Canada, the Russian babushkas or whatever they're called, their mothers, I don't know that I've really screwed that up. That's awful. But with bring their mothers with them and their mothers would walk into the grocery stores where they would go to buy their food and they would just break down and start crying right there in the middle of it. They had many of them do this because they had never seen so much choice. Yeah, they weren't, they didn't realize that there were so much choice. And then the next thing that happened is they ended up being depressed because they had so much choice.
Speaker 3:
60:02
They didn't know what to choose. And that's where we are right now is that people have so much choice that they're looking for beacons and influencers and anything that can help them make a decision. Because all we do all day and what is overwhelming us is make decisions. And we always are worried about making the wrong decision, especially when we're spending money and who's spending most of the money women, and they're freaked out all the time. So if we can find ways to a help with trust and B help with a curation so that people are making decisions every single time, the right decisions and saying, wow, I got a good deal on that, or I'm, I'm, I'm making a better thing. I think that we're on our way to helping people cope with social media, which I don't think is a bad thing. And I think that a lot of people spent a lot of time taking down Facebook and that, but I communicate with people around the world as do you. And it is, I feel really in touch. I've watched my friends, kids grow up over time and then when I meet them, it's not like I'm meeting the first time I've seen them in their cribs. Now I see them when they're 10 year old. I've never met them in person. And that's all going to become 3d and holographic and it's an exciting time, but we just have to control it. Overwhelming.
Speaker 1:
61:14
Oh man, I love it. There's just so many pieces of fantastic advice that you've, you've shared today. So thank you. I want to thank you for being here. Um, it just, it's, it's fascinating how the world is changing. I don't think it's bad. I think it's just changing with any sort of change. You just need to be able to learn how to adapt, learn how to find your way through. Um, but thank you so much for being here. Thank you guys for listening in and we'll catch you on the next episode.
Speaker 2:
61:39
Thank you for listening to the Duke of digital podcast with Brian Mitt, one to network with other business owners. Join our exclusive group at facebook.com/groups/duke of digital fancy the Duke. Leave a five star review on your favorite podcast app. And you can be mentioned on the show. The Duke of digital was produced by advertisement and recorded in Hollywood, California. All rights reserved.
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