Duke of Digital

040 - How to Find the Right Influencer for Your Brand with Maricia Magana

February 10, 2020 Brian Meert
Duke of Digital
040 - How to Find the Right Influencer for Your Brand with Maricia Magana
Chapters
Duke of Digital
040 - How to Find the Right Influencer for Your Brand with Maricia Magana
Feb 10, 2020
Brian Meert

Working with the right influencers can make or break your company. Raise your pinkies because today we’re discussing how to find and connect with the right influencers for your brand.

Maricia Magana
https://www.instagram.com/mari_icia/
http://mariciam.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariciam/

Brian Meert

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianmeert

Duke of Digital
https://www.dukeofdigital.com/
https://www.instagram.com/dukeofdigital/

AdvertiseMint
https://www.advertisemint.com
https://business.facebook.com/advertisemint/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/advertisemint/
https://www.instagram.com/advertisemint


Show Notes Transcript

Working with the right influencers can make or break your company. Raise your pinkies because today we’re discussing how to find and connect with the right influencers for your brand.

Maricia Magana
https://www.instagram.com/mari_icia/
http://mariciam.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariciam/

Brian Meert

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianmeert

Duke of Digital
https://www.dukeofdigital.com/
https://www.instagram.com/dukeofdigital/

AdvertiseMint
https://www.advertisemint.com
https://business.facebook.com/advertisemint/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/advertisemint/
https://www.instagram.com/advertisemint


Speaker 1:

Working with the right influencers can make or break your company, raise your pinkies because in today's episode we're talking about everything you need to know about finding the right influencer for your brand

Speaker 2:

presented by advertisement. The juke of digital will guide you through the rapidly changing landscape of digital marketing, social media, and how to grow your business online. To submit a question for the show, text (323) 821-2044 or visit Duke of digital.com if you need an expert to fix your ads, the friendly team at advertisement is ready to help visit advertisement. That's M I N t.com or call (844) 236-4686.

Speaker 3:

Grow your business. Here's your host, Brian Mitt .

Speaker 1:

All right . I am over the moon because today in this studio we have a Duchess, a queen. I dunno . An angel. How would you like to be referred to?

Speaker 3:

Well, I was definitely hoping you would say Duchess of digital since we're married and it seems like the titles are up for grabs.

Speaker 1:

Maria Magonia , uh, which is my wife. Uh , thank you so much for being here. I've been waiting for this to be able to interview you for a while, but you've been a little busy. Can you tell people what you've been doing since I launched the show?

Speaker 3:

Well , we welcome our beautiful daughter, Victoria grace. That name is so Regal . So she's definitely in the Dutch Duke princess family. Um , so I've just been in mom mode and I'm super excited because I am at that Mark where it's time where I can jump back in the real world

Speaker 1:

to have you here. And this is something I've been looking forward to for a long time. Um, because you know, we talk about this all the time, you know, we're always talking about marketing and different elements cause that's a world that you came from before we ever met. Uh, and so it's , it's , we've had some of the best conversations and I was like, I want to give some of the people, listeners, you know, a little sneak peek into our world and kind of what we chat about on a daily basis. So let me fill everyone in on a little bit of your background and then you can jump in if I'm missing anything, which I probably will. Um, but you worked with Interscope records. Uh , you've worked with universal music group. Um, you managed a lot of talent and the social media for Playboy. Uh , most recently you were , uh, overseeing all the influencer marketing campaigns for blink bar , uh, which is an eyelash, a studio or a , what would you just go , what would you call it,

Speaker 3:

the best eyelash extensions place in the world in Los Angeles. Is that right? For now? Yeah , they're in , it's soon to be moving, going to expand

Speaker 1:

globally. Um, and then you've gone on to be able to become the president of little, which is a new company that you founded, which is you guys make these incredible selfie lights, which are so ridiculously bright. They're these small little lights, but you put them on your , um, on your cell phones , uh, when you take your selfies. So perfect for inference influencers,

Speaker 3:

heavily influenced by influencers. So they definitely had a lot to do with that. And we'll get into that for sure.

Speaker 1:

So , um, I mean you've worked with celebrities like lady Gaga for [inaudible] , Robin Thicke, common, dr Dre M and M P Diddy. And I know the list goes on and on. But I always love hearing your stories cause I can just, you know, you worked a lot in music and all throw out a name or we'll , we'll hear a song on the radio as we're driving. And I'm like, tell me a story about M and M and you'd be like, well, it's one time, you know, we were at the radio station and we had to be up at 4:00 AM or you always have these incredible stories about these different artists and how, you know, they are out hustling or they had to work to be able to get where they were and you're like, I was working with them before anyone knew who they were and our job was to help, you know, get them , um, or noticed or more plays. Um, so I just, I love that, that you've, you have such a great,

Speaker 3:

so I would definitely those . So the first influencers have up late before earth . Now we have like our internet famous influencers, but those were the real influencers, I think the star. Yeah. Um, but yeah, definitely that work ethic ridiculous. I think it's a lot like yours that get up early schedule and just be on it. And so you guys have that in common for sure.

Speaker 1:

I love it. I love it. Well, I mean, you know, we were married what, a couple of years ago in Malibu. Uh, it was fantastic. A beautiful day. Nice. And sunny. Little dolphins swam by and B people asked me at our wedding and they're like, did you plan it? And I was like, of course I planned the dolphins swimming by. Yeah. Um, I , uh, I sent him out to go do some tricks out in the ocean, but it was, it was a wonderful day. Best day of my life.

Speaker 3:

Definitely. And now I'm like, it's a close even with baby Victoria grace.

Speaker 1:

Um , well man, I am, I'm glad to have you here. And I mean, before maybe even we begin to get into the topic, can you just give a quick recap for anyone listening on how we met, what was the story according to you? And I'll fill in in case you, you mess up a little bit, but how did we, where did we meet and what happened when, when that went down?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I definitely think you'll be interjecting. So cause this is my version, the first thing that pops in my head is the pink shirt, but we'll get into that. Um, so a general assembly that's before I think it was as um , I was taking tons of courses because I was working at Playboy and I had newly received overseeing social media along with PR and a whole bunch of other positions there. And I was like, I need to learn everything. So I think you and I are always, we have that in common where we're like learn, learn, learn. Like we want to become experts in our craft. So I was like, I'm going to take this class about Facebook advertising. And I saw second street, I said, okay, perfect. Downtown close to me and the day of, I was like second street in Santa Monica. I don't want to go to the West side, but something made me throw my beanie on and just go to class. I was late and the only seat available was in the front.

Speaker 1:

So what you didn't say was that I was the teacher of this class and this was a , I mean I started Facebook advertising probably about, I don't know , two weeks, maybe two months after they released ad platform. I quit my full time job, started the agency from there I started advertisement and then I started to do it full time and realized , man it was a mess when it first started and I was like, people are going to need help. And there was general assembly, which is a place, they have a bunch of locations where you can go and take topics and learn for three hours or a full day courses. So they have longer ones as well, like learn how to program. Um , but they had, I had said, Hey, I'm doing this stuff with Facebook ads. You guys need anyone to teach a class. And they're like, yeah, we want that. Um, and it ended up all the classes started selling out because everyone was like, I wanted to to know about this, but this is right at the beginning of it. Like Facebook ads had only been around for probably six months when you came to the class. And that was I think one of my first or second classes that I ever taught. Uh , and sure enough, she walks in Lake four years ago. It was a long time ago. It feels like forever. I mean Facebook years feels like dog years in terms of how much stuff changes. But yeah, you walked in late. But man, if she didn't have the cutest beanie on and her little ripped jeans and I was like, now we're talking. And all she remembers is that I was wearing a pink button up shirt, which at the time I did think was pretty cool.

Speaker 3:

Well , I was a psycho bunny shirt . So any guys out there that's such a popular brand

Speaker 1:

peacocking a little bit like I'm like, I'm confident enough to wear pink and girls will be like, Oh, what did I share it and this the only thing you remember you're like, ah, we're shirt ever.

Speaker 3:

Um , but didn't later. It , our whole nursery is pink. Everything we have is pink now cause we have a baby baby girl. My house is so , and that

Speaker 1:

shirt it's somewhere and I'm sure it's in a closet somewhere. A box. Um, okay. Well let's , uh, let's move to influencer marketing. And the reason I wanted to have you on the show is one, just want to spend as much time with you as possible, but to , because when it comes to influencer marketing, you are the Michael Jordan or the Kobe Bryant , LeBron James. In my world, we're , I watch you set up deals and create these massive partnerships with such ease and you're like, yeah, no big deal, huh? This person's on that person's on. And I'm like, I don't even know how you do it. Cause I feel like a lot of times I'll reach out to influencers and I just hear nothing back. So like I'm like, Oh no one wants to talk to me. You'll be like, Hey, what's up? And you just have a way of of doing it. And so I wanted to get some of your secrets or see if you could share them with others today in regards to how to connect and work with the right influencers because you can connect and work with the wrong influencers. Uh , you can pay too much, you can pay too little. There's a whole bunch of kind of , um, you know, pitfalls that a person could fall into when it comes to influencer marketing. I wanted to, to get your advice. So to begin , um, can you kind of walk through if someone doesn't know what is influencer marketing? Very high level.

Speaker 3:

Uh, influencer marketing is , um, okay , now I'm stumping, I , it's using social media and social media influencers to market your brand. Um, things have changed right now. People are spending over 50% or higher of their marketing budgets using influencers. So it's, it's inner net celebrities. But even celebrities can be considered influencers too . Uh ,

Speaker 1:

nice. Are there any like industries or verticals that you have seen go very heavily on influencer marketing or that do it a lot more than necessarily other, you know , verticals.

Speaker 3:

I mean, I definitely think beauty you sought the most in fashion when it started, but now it's, it's everyone is using influencers from, if it's like a mom brand yoga brand tech brand. Now it was interesting on bike seeing Panda express is using like my influencer friends. So it's everybody. I don't think one uses it in particular. I think everyone's jumping up Baton wagon because it actually provides an ROI. Yeah, yeah,

Speaker 1:

yeah. And I mean ultimately you've got, you know, at the end of the day, the day and age of digital, it's hard. And especially with millennials, their trust is something that's so critical for them to be able to have. Um, you know, they, they, they see thousands and thousands of ads. And so when they, when there's someone that they know and trust and follow in their , a part of their lives, even though they may not see them every day, but they see them online, if that person says, Hey, I use this product and I love it. Um, that connection is already been made, which, you know, a long time that was only kind of done through celebrities and like TV ads or things like that where you're trying to link someone that's popular. Um, you know, why should companies be using influencers?

Speaker 3:

Well, to your point, it's okay. So if we use celebrities as an example, and I worked with like lady God car , Mary J Blige, this is back in the day , it's where a lot of people, but they would wear the most beautiful outfit and I would be like, I love that. But even today, J lo, I love everything she wears, but could I actually purchase those things? Probably not her. It's, it's out of my price range. But with an influencer who's wearing revolve our Zara and now that's in my price range and it's something I can actually get. So I think they're really influential. They're very authentic. I think one thing to know about influencers, it's , it's like your network of friends. It's like making friends, like you become friends with them, but they actually are doing things and going places that you can actually go to. Whereas with celebrities not as likely that you could purchase things that they have and probably even go to some of the places that they go to.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Yeah. And I think to some extent, you know, it's important to remember that influencers are wanting to find deals and wanting to find brands that align with who they are or that things that they talk about or that are relevant. They want to talk about things that are new. You know, they, what they're out trying to do is to get in front of people with new interesting stories , um, new content , um, things that are engaging or interactive for their followers. Um, and a lot of times brands can be able to help that by allowing them to create stories that involve their products or services. Kind of weaved in to those messages.

Speaker 3:

I definitely do think it's, it's a two way street. I think now influencers are finding these brand and collaboration's really valuable for a lot of people. They're making tons of money and a lot of people quit their jobs to be influencers. You're seeing brands like revolve. I use that cause that's one of my favorite brands that aren't now their brand. Collaboration's are now influencers versus before they were a celebrity collaboration. So yes, it definitely is good for them. And like you said, with influencers, and we'll probably talk more about this when you're a brand or a business and you're trying to choose an influencer, the first, the best step is to pick someone that already has interest in your brand and that's where it's really authentic and genuine because they're already supporting the brand.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Yeah. Now walk me through, because I know terms that I hear throw are like mega influencers, macro influencers, micro or nano influencers. Can you kind of break down what those are? Um, for someone that might be listening that may not be aware of those.

Speaker 3:

So I even have a chart here because things are constantly changing. Whip the names. Um , mega is the million and above, but that's really like an a list celebrity B list celebrity. Uh , Kylie Jenner would be a mega influencer but we're looking at $1 million a post . So that's definitely for huge, huge brands that can afford that. But I think most of the listeners and most of the people we work with that's just kind of like out of or each , um , macro is 500 K to a million . That's still some pretty big influencers. Um, that micro, cause I, some people say mid tier, I go to Mike Crow , 10 to 50, that's a great spot. That's a lot of the influencers I've worked with. But now there's a new one which is nano, which is like one to 10. [inaudible] to me that, that's the sweet spot. Um, even with the working with blink bar, I would constantly get influencers that were probably macro. They were in the millions. But I loved working with the nano influencers because they weren't reminded me of that girl. Who's your friend that wears that outfit that you're like, where did you get that shirt? Where did you get that purse? And she has that influence on you. I feel like nano influencers have the most influence and you studies are showing, the research is showing that they have the most engagement. So you can look at these huge, huge influencers with all these followers. But these nano influencers, they're the ones with the most engagement and influence.

Speaker 1:

And when you talk about followers, just so everyone's clear, are you talking about all their followers on all the platforms combined or is this per platform of kind of how they're classified?

Speaker 3:

I think for influencers, especially the ones that I've worked with, but it seems like most influencers, Instagram, that's like the big thing. I know other platforms are tic talkie , there's all kinds of platforms. But it seems like the most of influencer marketing is mostly on Instagram,

Speaker 1:

happens without w within the world of Instagram. And that's , that's where things go from. Um, alright . Can you, you know, I, I mean I guess back to the mega and the nano, you know, what really comes down to how businesses want to make money. Um, and I've had conversations with, with marketing people, they're like, yeah, we just did a deal with one of the Kardashians and they promoted our product. And I was like, how'd that work in terms of sales? And immediately like he's got quiet and they're like, ah , let's change the question as if the ROI wasn't they expected from the big mega deals, but they had a big name to say one of the Kardashians promoted our products and could run with that for a while . But in terms of dollars that came in, it didn't sound like that conversation was that it was the ROI, the ROI was positive. Now with nano influencers in the smaller side, you've got, you know, you're not going to necessarily crush it in terms of massive, massive sales from opposed, but you have this real potency. So how did you kind of determine what to do, you know, with the budgets that you have?

Speaker 3:

I definitely think, well I'm a really big fan, which you know this cause we , we talk about, cause we have a lot of clients here that I want to use influencers. I really am an organic person. So I really tried to not do the pay thing. That's just me. I try to build the relationships , um , with people. You can talk more about how you can do that with the influencers. But uh, I definitely agree with that. I think the, for instance with blink bar and coming from the Playboy worlds , I, there was a lot of playmates that would want to come to blink by her and had millions of followers. And when you are a brand or a business and you're trying to choose an influencer, you're thinking, who's your target audience? Like who does this make sense for? For her, those playmates, guess who followed that? It was all men, men . So you can have a ton of followers, but they just didn't make sense. And then there was this blogger that had 10,000 followers. She's the person I was going to choose where I would constantly go back with the fountain . Der , because all she saw in a lot of companies, they just see millions of the, if the followership and they're like, that's who we need to go with, but they don't have the influence. And how you are saying why aren't people working with nano versus mega are it's because when you're working with a nano you can do so much more with them. You could get them to post more. It's an easier way to work. Then when you're going through a publicist or a manager who's like, this is all you're getting.

Speaker 1:

This is the restrictions, here's the rules. Everything that goes along with it. So I mean I could definitely imagine that there's a sweet spot there. Can you walk us through then? Cause one of the first steps that's the most critical is how you find the right influencers. So what are you , what's your process as you know, when something new comes up and you're then reaching out to people to say, Hey, here's this opportunity. Or here's this new product. You know , what are the steps that you do in terms of reaching out? I mean you , you mentioned finding the right ones and making sure that their followers aligned with your end goals. Uh , is there anything else that that comes into finding them? So

Speaker 3:

when I'm looking for influencers, of course hashtags, so obviously depending on how big your brand is, like I have been lucky to work with bigger brands where, or if I did put in like blink bar, I would find all these people that have hashtag or tagged. Um, then I, I worked , uh , essential oil Britain as you know, that was new or her. So how did I find people with that? I was like, okay, let me look who's hashtagging essential oils, yoga people like holistic alternative medicine. So you kind of look like what your brand is and the hashtags that are relevant for a head . That's how you can find people. So you can start tap outreach. How do you outreach?

Speaker 1:

So once you find the people that you want, what are the steps? How do you go about contacting them? You just slide into the DM or,

Speaker 3:

exactly. Yeah , I kind of have my method to it and I kind of use this also when I'm trying to build followership on , on newer brands or brands that want to boost their numbers is go and be their friends. So social media is making friends. It's a lot of work though. So it's definitely like you have to put the work in because a lot of people are using bots and things like that. Well everyone's hip to those now. Brands have systems that can check like are you using bots? Like you can't do it anymore. And comments like , like it and love it. Those aren't going to work. So what I do is I will reach out to an influencer and you know, I, I'll go for big, I'll go for a small, I'll go for them all. Like you definitely want to do quantity cause you're only gonna get seven better going to actually respond back. But what I do is all go to their posts. You want to be specific when you're commenting. So again, no light kit. Love it. Find something specific , uh , showing appreciation and comments on their posts. Another good thing to do. It's usually to go back. A lot of people will like the most recent posts , but so did another 500,000 people or 500 people. So go back like a couple of weeks, a couple months back and comment on something and start really engaging with them and becoming their front. And, and that's kind of my first step before I go for the ask.

Speaker 1:

That's such a good tip or piece of advice because it's so many times I think in the business world everyone's moving quick and they want the final outcome, which is, Hey, I want you to promote my product so I make a ton of money. Just do it and go, you know, what's it going to take for that? And I think they forget that element of, you know, Hey , I want to connect with you and what are your goals and dreams in life and how can we work together and are there opportunities? And you know, like what you're saying, where you comment on the stuff in their life and be like, Hey, that picture of you at the beach, man, I've been to that beach, it was amazing. And Oh , I saw you in New York, I was there last week. Or you know, things like that that can help connect you that just build it because an influencer that gets a comment that says, you know, Hey, I know about your life and we have things in common. I like to work together versus a company. It's like, Hey, would you take money for a post? Like, and they're just cutting and pasting that a million times hoping that someone will respond. Um, and I just, I see you get the most fantastic response from when you're doing outreach. And I've seen you do it multiple times where I'm like, man, how did you get all these people? Like in a couple of days? Uh , they're all out. You'll build these campaigns and it's just incredible to watch. Um, because I think I've seen so many other people try to do it with the cut and paste approach. Um, so I dunno , I just your your way works better

Speaker 3:

and definitely what we're talking about, you know, for your listener is this word talking about not your Cokes and your huge, huge rants. We're talking about people that would probably be listening to this podcast that don't have tons of budget but want to use the influencers. Like it is possible. There's some platforms you, what are some of the platforms you use because you've, you've actually used some platforms and we got Hailey , like you got some really good influencers. Like at the beginning there are platforms that work as well because at the end of the day, remember besides like if someone buys something, what else is great about influencers? They're creating content for you. So I, I've built a whole Instagram based on influencer content so I didn't have to hire graphic designer, didn't have to hire a video Hawker for you. If you get anything and if you don't get a sale, guess what? You got some content.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. I think, you know with the Haley example, what she was saying was, you know, we were looking for an influencer for a project. It's only like two, three years ago. Um, and I think I just went to Google and started Googling platforms and I signed up for two to three of them , uh , influencer platforms. And my experience with them was really rough. Like I, I would say I sent out offers, they're probably, I dunno, 50 influencers and got maybe 10 that were interested and have that got like one to two that I actually wanted to work with that I thought would be a good fit. Um, and I just remember being like, man, there was a lot of work that went into it, but the one that we did find, which was Hayley turned out to be fantastic , uh, for what we were doing. And it ended up working very, very well, far beyond our expectations. Uh, so it ended up being, you know, a fantastic kind of process, but the end was good. But during the process I was like, man, I would have much rather worked with like, you know , 10 to 20 on this project. So I had a lot more content instead of just kind of one to two that that ended up being with. So

Speaker 3:

she's huge now. It's like, thank you. Helped with that, Brian . She's doing really well. I still, I stole her from you and took her to blink bar. Yeah , she works for , she's a model . She's, so

Speaker 1:

that was it. I gave her her shot in Hollywood. Um , all right . So talk to me about this organic versus paid, which is basically, do you reach out to influencers and say, I'll pay you to do ABC or do you find a way to make a friend and send them a gift and say, here's what we have. We'd love you to do something on your own, but there's no necessarily money that's being transacted. Um, walk me through those two options.

Speaker 3:

So again, and we're speaking to people that don't have I , that's just really what I want to focus on. If it's okay that don't have huge bud budgets. Um, and I've worked with popular brand that actually wanted to do the organic versus the paid . But when you're reaching out, just know, and we can talk about little as an example too . It's like when you are giving out product and you're not paying, just know there's a chance you won't get the post. So just so what you do come up with something super creative when you're sending out the package are super authentic. Um, but with the paid you're guaranteed. And you know, these days I would say spending a couple hundred dollars here and there could be very valuable because like we said, you can get the contact con, sorry, content content. You can get the content as well as the post will be guaranteed. So it just depends. Like they're saying that brands are spending 50 to 80% of their marketing budgets and how so there is money there, whether you're paying an influencer marketing specialist, which we just hired a Gabby over here that's going to really help with that. So that's exciting. That has the relationship . So you have , you're paying a body or you're actually allocating a couple hundred dollars to thousands here and there.

Speaker 1:

Got it. And to go back to the little story, and for anyone that's listening, it's little L I T T I L a the product is a selfie mini and you can find it on Amazon , uh , is where it's sold. Um, but when it was, it was around the holiday time that you wanted to get him set up an influencer campaign and you know, one, you have the product on its own , uh , which is a box with the product in it. Um, but you were like, that's not enough. And so you ordered additional boxes, you like these bigger boxes and you put two of them in there. So they had one for them and one for their friend. You put I think some Christmas ornaments and then like a Christmas cookie, it was packaged with this beautiful little stuff inside , like a, I don't know ,

Speaker 3:

cookies which are really popular and a decal on top because you just want to, it has to be Instagram worthy. So ,

Speaker 1:

but you created what? Like, I think it was like 25 or 50 of these and started sending them out and instantly everything just lights up. And these are people that a lot of them you didn't, you didn't know. You had just reached out being like, Hey, we've got this incredible like what did you pitch to those people?

Speaker 3:

I didn't really pitch. I kind of just, well again that was like right a couple of weeks before giving birth. All right , so thanks to Courtney, your assistant for helping with that. But we just sent out the boxes. But I guess the goal was to make it creative and different influencers are getting packages all day long. They go to their mailboxes and it is stuff with packages. So what are you going to do to stand out? Um , it could be simple, but you have to stand out. It has to be Instagram worthy. Um, so you could do simple things. I also would say for anyone who's hanging a package out, if you're not collaborating with another brand, don't put another brand in there. You don't want anything to out shine your brand. So you definitely want to put things that a cookie, which it's a popular place , um, milk, but cookies, that's not gonna , you know, it's not, what's the word I'm looking for in competition with our brand. So definitely pick something that is a totally different niche than yours and that won't go against. And just the decal. I, you know, people aren't doing the Instagram walls and her always taking pictures of that. So I, you know, I love our tagline, let your light shine. So it was like people thought it was so cute. So they were unboxing it. That's what they call it, unboxing. And I think a lot of brands and what they do, collabs, they asked the influencers to unbox. That's part of it. Ours was all organic and I want it really continue with being organic as much as possible.

Speaker 1:

And I think that the part to remember there is, you know, what you created was a little miniature experience that they get to go and as they're unboxing isn't just like, look, I'm opening a Brown Amazon box and looked as a product sitting inside with a bunch of packaging. Like it was a whole experience. They open it, there's more gifts and they see it allows them to be able to share that moment which is valuable, which is really what is valuable to them. That's probably the most valuable currency is things that are interesting and unique that other people don't get to see or don't get to do. Like everyone in America isn't getting free stuff sent to their house, like cool free stuff. Um , like things that are beauty or fitness or related products about what they love. Um, and so they have something that they can then share with the people who are following them, which is really the kind of the fuel they need to keep growing , uh, their, their brand or their own personal, you know, followers.

Speaker 3:

And let's be honest though, a selfie light for an influencer. I mean we won with that. [inaudible]

Speaker 1:

um, it's funny cause I, we sent two , one for them and their friend and I wonder how many stuck both of them on their phone.

Speaker 3:

But that was your idea actually. And it was really cute because a lot of the influencers would tag their bestie. They're like, Oh I'm for the bestie. So it was really cute. But uh , we haven't gotten into it. But when we did bring all the influence we, so Brian and I brought in a lot of top influencers. So we had micro, we had macro, we had nano, we had all different types of influencers come in and test. How many lights would you say it's

Speaker 1:

we, I dunno, 40 50 different led lights that we had ordered from , uh, from China to , to test out. And this was the first one that everyone was like, we love the most and I know that there's like what seven or eight other products in , in the works right now are all about to launch later this year, which is exciting

Speaker 3:

and all, I mean our company, it's heavily influenced by influencers. So they basically were like this is the want and loved the selfie mini because they could put it in their pockets are really small purse cause everyone knows the 2020 trend is tiny purses . I'm like being a mom, I can't really go with that trend. But they loved it. If they're at Coachella, they could just put it in their pocket as well. So

Speaker 1:

yeah, to go back on the point you just talked about, this is one of my best tips, which is if you're going to send someone something free, your product for free to a person, always send to 'em and say one is for you and one is either for your friend or for a giveaway for your audience, your people. And that has never gone wrong. For me, it's always been such a little gem of what I've been able to get out of that second, whatever it was that I included in there. Uh , it's just been a fantastic little little tip and strategy that I've used.

Speaker 3:

The Duke is dropping golden nuggets. That's awesome. But it worked. I love it.

Speaker 1:

Um , all right , so let's do this. What do you ask for when setting up a deal? So, you know, most, you know , a lot of influencers will at some point be like, let's talk money. Um, when you get to that point or, or there's a deal going on, do you say, here's a list of 50 things I want you to do and you have to do every single one, or are you like, I'm a, I'm a send a product to your way, do whatever you want. You can say it's the worst thing ever or the best thing ever. Doesn't matter. Do whatever you want and your own creative freedom. How do you set up your deals?

Speaker 3:

So again, because so many of the deals I have done, but I mean, I guess a lot of the clients here, we've, we've done some deals too, but usually one, you have to track it. So that's one thing. When I started influencer marketing, it was right before there was any tracking, we knew that people could buy followers . It was really early on. So I worked with a brand where everyone wanted to post. So I was lucky. So when I'm reaching out, I'm usually asking for one to two posts. A Insta stories are so valuable. So , um , a lot of influencers, especially when it's not something that's paid, cause when it's paid it's easier to get them to put it on their actual Instagram stories go away in 24 hours. So usually I'll ask for Instastories . Um, and then just any pictures they can send, I'm pretty lenient. I usually don't ask for codes and things like that, but I would definitely say , um, a lot of the influencers, like I was really lucky to work with Kim Kardashians. Um, train her so everyone knows her, she's super popular. And every time she posted she would literally ask me, do you have a Bitly link? A Bitly for everybody? It's just a shortened link that you can customize and track

Speaker 1:

any Bitly link. You put a plus sign at the end of the link and it'll bring up a report that you can see all the clicks from that link.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So she would ask me every time like, could you send me something? Cause she really wanted to, to help and again, she was not paid. So these are, these are people that are super, super relevant. But then at the same time if you are going to do something paid, make sure you have a contract. And I'm also a big fan of simple contracts, not the 10 page contracts, like a one page contract that says this is the expectations. We're expecting one to three posts within. You have to tell them like with what time frame because they might post next year. So you don't want that. And just certain people say this is our brand guidelines. So these are the colors you have to wear. Um, or a lot of brands wa are choosing these influencers because they like exactly what they're doing. So they just want them to do their thing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Got it. Is um, you know, how much creative control should you give to the influencers? Like can they do anything? Cause I think that's probably one of the biggest fears that a lot of companies have, which is we're going to hand over our product or our baby. Like this is the babies of the company that they're like, we need this to survive and do good. And influencer could be like, I hate this product. It's the worst thing ever. You know, I keep it right next to my toilet paper to make a joke. And that's it. And that would devastate. Or you know, there , there's CEOs that are company like absolutely not. Like this is, we have completely failed. People are losing their jobs, the market department. So how do you do that? Cause I know when we've talked with influencers, they're like, you need to give us creative control. That's what we do and that's our magic and you shouldn't try to take it from us. Um, so I mean, I hear both sides of the argument, but what , what are your thoughts in terms of where, what are the deals you try to put together?

Speaker 3:

So it's going back to who you're choosing. So it's who are you choosing? And most people are choosing people who are in alignment with their brand. Remember, it's their feed and their insist story . And now it's just like if you asked, Hey, could you post something? My Instagram for instance, is very curated. Um, so I wouldn't just post anything. You're picking an influencer that's in alignment. And remember, you want them to have some creative control because that's what they're going to put on their feet. And again, with things like you said that they could bash the brand Wolf , they have a contract, they're probably not going to bash the brand. So you're pretty safe there. I think it lets you know you're picking a celebrity and something happens that's, that's just a whole nother story. Like if he do something crazy, crazy publicly and then you're like, Oh my God, we just use them as an endorsement. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

What , um, you know, when it comes to, cause you touched on this earlier, you know, you know, I wouldn't say fraud, but you know, there's a lot that goes on in terms of buying followers, buying likes, buying video views. Uh , and there's some tools out there. It's just giant click farms. They're just going through, clicking on whatever their , the phones are programmed to do. But, you know, I know some of the large, some of the large celebrity accounts, a lot of times they've been accused of this, of, of buying them. Um, I know there's a story of media Kix which was a company, an agency that went out and created two fake accounts. Uh, and they just used a bunch of stock images that they could find online. They bought a ton of followers and then they went out to start seeing if they could get influencer deals. And sure enough, they were like, we started to get all, like no one was checking if these were legit, they saw a big number and said, we'll throw money at you, go do it. Um, so I think that's something that, you know, businesses have the fear of, of how do we be able to determine who actually is. Um, right. And so, I mean, are there tools or what are your rules of thumb to be able to help keep tabs on who is real and who might be , um, you know, a little sheep and wolves or Wolf in sheep's clothing. I guess

Speaker 3:

there are tools now that you can use to see if their bots are real followers. But if you don't have those tools , uh , it's funny cause what I walked in and Gabby mentioned the same thing that I , I would, I had in my notes is that you have to look at, so you really have to look at engagement and forget the followers because followers could be bought, but also sometimes they get caught in bots , which you might know more about that than me cause I don't know the technical side. But uh , some of those followers could be fake. Some in some are real . There's a mixture, but it's the engagement that you're looking for when you see a lot of an engagement on , um , an influencer, that's the one you want to go for versus the one with tons of followers and you'll see it all the time. Two comments.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Yeah. So I mean is there, is there a rule of thumb that you look for? Cause I mean if you were to talk just about Instagram, you've got likes, which people can click, the light hit, which it does. Somebody sent those went away. And then , um, you also have comments where people can leave a comment on it. Are you looking only at comments or do you take the likes into account as well?

Speaker 3:

I look at both. I look at both because the first thing I'm going to look at is the follower account because that's what you'd see first in the bio until you dig deeper at someone and then you start looking at their posts and seeing if there's engagement. That's kind of both.

Speaker 1:

So if someone had say 100,000 followers, what would you look for in terms of engagement? Like 1% or

Speaker 3:

two , 3% so at least like you know, a hundred to 300 comments. Okay. Yeah, that's what you look for. I mean I took a class at general assembly, this was years ago, and it's funny because she compared to celebrities and there was like one celebrity that had tons of bot followers and no engagement. So it was the interest .

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think it's fascinating because we could probably do a whole episode on his later, which is just the tools that are used to detect. Um, cause I've seen demos for a lot of different ones and it is fascinating where though like you can see over time follower accounts over time and they're like, these are patterns that bots follow. Uh , these are patterns that happen naturally over time. Um, and then even so how they're able to analyze which accounts are fake based on the user activity and what they're doing. If it's systematic and there's a post every, you know, four hours consistently for, you know, eight weeks, they're like, yeah, it's probably most likely it's a program doing that versus a real person. So, I mean there's tons and tons of tools that they have the ability to use. And it's just fascinating when you see them used to be like, man, I would not want to be caught with my hand in the cookie jar because I think you ultimately you just, you lose, you might get to the table of a better deal. But I think most of the biggest, the biggest brands now, I think you're all utilizing tools like these to help kind of get rid of waste and they're able to help say, Hey, those 100,000 followers is really 30,000 followers and that's what we'll pay you. Um, so I dunno.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I mean, and being an influencer, I feel like it's a lot of work to just my social loan , you're trying to comment back to people like they are, they have a lot of commenting back. I'm like, wow, I'm impressed. But, but because they're always commenting back and I have a lot of friends that are influencers and I'm like, how do you do it? They're like right on the spot. As soon as someone comments I comment back and that's the easiest way to do it. But because of that, that's how their follower growth keeps growing because they're commenting back all the time. So that's also a great tip for brands like never let like a comic go, you know, without returning it. Because that could really help your followership grow.

Speaker 1:

Well as we, as we kind of bring things to a close today , um, are there any final tips that you would give to, you know, other companies out there in terms of, you know, taking whatever they've done with influencer marketing so far and taking it up a couple levels? Any final tips or strategies that you use?

Speaker 3:

Um, I would definitely say if you're not doing influencer marketing, you should be, if you're doing it now , um, and you've seen it, that it's been valuable, I would definitely say it's time to start allocating some money towards it. Even if it's just a couple of thousand dollars. Like are if you don't have a couple of thousand , even if it's $1,000, like I think it's time that this is one of the biggest things out there that you should be doing it . Yeah ,

Speaker 1:

yeah. Oh yeah. You definitely need to get in the game, go , uh , hunt down hashtags that are relevant to your business. Find a couple people that you think are in alignment with what you're doing and reach out to them. Um, and see if there's an opportunity there for you to get some, some of your products in their hands. Um, I love it. Thank you so much for being here today.

Speaker 3:

Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1:

Your knowledge and wisdom. You're so much smarter than me.

Speaker 3:

No, not at all.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you so much for checking out this episode and we'll catch you on the next one.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for listening to the Duke of digital podcast with Brian Mitt , one to network with other business owners. Join our exclusive group at facebook.com/groups/duke of digital fancy the Duke. Leave a five star review on your favorite podcast app. And you can be mentioned on the show. The Duke of digital was produced by advertisement and recorded in Hollywood, California.