Season 4 Episode 5: The Word on Coaching - Agility

In this episode we explore the concept of agility with Mark Miller. Mark has several years of practical coaching experience. He has served in many leadership roles and has been a coach in several industries, including coaching young entrepreneurs.

In our conversation with Mark, he shares with us how agility is essential to leadership and coaching. He shares a framework for coaching others to be more agile. He also gives some tips on what it takes to become agile whether you are a planner or someone who likes to go with the flow.

We hope you enjoy this episode, please join our mailing list, and check out quick guide about powerful questions: "Embrace the Power of Questions!"    A Quick Reference Guide to Getting the Answers You Need.

Show Notes:

Podcast Guest

Mark Miller
(619) 249.6386
marksnarrative@gmail.com

Suggested books: 

• Diffusion of Innovations, 5th Edition By Everrett Rogers
• The Rise of the Agile Leader: Can You Make the Shift? By Chuck Moller
• From Followers to Leaders By Bob Logan and Tara Miller

Transcript

0:01

Um,

JoAnn 0:08

Hi everyone. And welcome to the word own coaching podcast. I'm Joanne and I'm here with my two colleagues, Debbie and Kevin. Hello, Hi everyone. We're coaches three we're, three friends with years of leadership and coaching experience who wanted to share our passion with others. Our podcasts are created for leaders, whether you have that formal title or not. And we focus on one word with each podcast and that word relates to leadership and Coaching. We along with our guests, try very hard to give you some good tips and some information, and sometimes even a fresh perspective, but we always will give you lots of support because we know leadership is hard. Today, I'm really excited about having a personal friend and someone. I admire a great deal on our podcast. Mark, I thank you. First of all, for being here and I'm going to ask him to introduce himself. But I'd like to say one of the things I really admire. Mark is his passion for what he does, whatever he does, he's passionate about it. And that has always made me want to work with him and, and be part of what he's doing. The other thing that I really. Love about mark is he's fun. I've worked on a lot of things with it is always fun. And I thank you for that. I, in fact, it probably got me in trouble more times than not for volunteering for way too much. Cause I knew if mark was involved, it was going to be fun. So welcome mark. And take a moment just to tell us and tell our audience a little bit about your.

Mark 1:56

Yeah. Well, thank you for having me. It's good to meet everyone and be here with you guys. I'm really excited about what's going on with coaches three. I'm waiting to get my copy. I want all three of you to sign it. That's all I want. I want my own copy so for the last 20 years I've been engaged in primarily consulting and counseling services and discovered, I don't know, around two 12, 2012, 2013. A passion for coaching course, having, known JoAnn Auger for years, she introduced me to the concept of formal coaching. It's always been kind of in me intuitively you know, it, you, you, you're just, it's one of those natural abilities. Where you start talking to somebody, you start asking questions or start directing them or trying to give insights. And so I discovered through conversations that coaching became a real passion of mine. And so in 2015, I became a certified leadership development coach was ICF approved program. It was an intense. Process, but loved every moment of it. And I kept going through it. I'm like, man, I've really hit my niche here personally. So that's what I've been doing for the last 20 years. But coaching probably formally since 2015.

JoAnn 3:10

Well, thank you for that. And you know, today's episode, we're going to as always say one word and mark. When I was talking with you about being on our podcast, I ask you what is one word that comes to mind and you didn't even hesitate. You said agility to be agile and you know, The more you and I talked about that, the more relevant it was to what's going on right now. it's not like I haven't heard you talk about it before you, have talked about being agile agility for years and how important it is. So to kick off our discussion today, can you give us a working definition of what you mean by agility or being either.

Mark 3:57

You have time and experiences kind of changed definitions for you personally. I had the prior to COVID. Um, I mean, we were already as a culture, we were struggling with anything that was sustainable or stability-wise that was already roading. Just simply because technology and the advancements going on around the world were moving things so fast. So what we knew in terms of stability was not really available, it was becoming less available. Will COVID pushed us over the edge, which then changed my understanding to agility. But the basic definition of agility is just being able to move quickly and easily through a process of change with some time, some type of outcomes, whatever that might be now, post COVID. If I can use the word host depending on who you listen to. Right. I have defined the agility is the ability. To move within a continuous loop easily and quickly. You can't just look at it as agility as a dynamic that accompany an organization needs to make a quick change. You have to think on quick change all the time. So it needs to become, it's funny because agility, chemists from the computer. Processing world operating processes, operating systems, but we've now taken it. And we're using now in team dynamics, leadership dynamics and all that. But we can't think that agility is something that's needed in a moment or a transition of something. Make the quick change. It has to be in a continuous loop in our mind, some form of process of agility that we implement with everything. Because things change. You could even say we're living in this kind of, you know, I've heard the word existential a lot. We're living in this existential threat almost of uncertainty because we don't know what's going to be changing next, how it's going to impact us on our personal life, how it's going to impact organizations. So having clarify, again, my definition personally is living in a continuous loop of. Quickness of being able to make quick decisions and make them eat. So continuous loop.

Kevin 6:05

that's, that's sticking in my head from the first time that you said that mark, this continuous loop. And I was thinking about that infinity loop where just, when you think you're on the outside of you, just really what you're doing is you're going right back into it. These past few years in the pandemic has certainly. People to be agile in many different ways. And I appreciate that definition of it. And I'll be thinking about that through this whole episode. Right now, mark, I'd like to you just to share some insight with us how is understanding the concept of agility important for a coach leader perspective?

Mark 6:39

Yeah, boy, that's, that's huge. Kevin that could use a two part series for sure, because when I think of the word understanding, it's not, it's also not just having the knowledge, but the ability to apply it, to really understand it. To say the understanding of it is you almost want to say wake up, you need to embrace it beyond understanding. But leader coaches, can, we just can't assume any longer than outcomes are set. You just can't do that anymore. You don't know what's going to come in, kind of turn the card over or turn a system in a different way. We're kind of input is going to require some kind of different output. You, you just don't know. And so I think agility within leader, coaching is something again that you have to live in as part of your dynamic. Michelle Braden talked about the mindset and the kaleidoscope of literally pulling all those things that make a mindset up and then be able to bend that towards a decision or an outcome. That is best for whoever it might be. So th the same with agility, think about it in terms of the mindset that it has to be part of the dynamic. As a leader, coach agility is not something, oh, let me talk to you a little about, oh, in this place of coaching, you need to be agile. That's not the fact anymore, but through the process of coaching itself, agility is a dynamic that becomes part of the coaching piece. That is ongoing so that every, whatever use the three step four step five step coaching model, every part of that you're thinking and training and teaching the coach coachee, the importance of agile being agile in it. So it's super important. In fact, if you think about it, agility should be one of those non-negotiables now that's how much I believe it should be a non-negotiable. Because you can't leaders, can't just make decisions based on their personality anymore. That's only going to benefit them. Right. So they have to make decisions that are really based on, on on an outcome that is uncommitted. Right. Because if you just based on your personality, you can find the comfort and decision-making, but we're not living in a place of comfort. People are at home doing business. Now they're at work. Their lives are not the same. And so we're not dealing with the same, constant loop. It has to be so important and everything, and every decision made in.

Debby 9:07

Yeah, that's so interesting. And I love that. Let's add that to the list, right? Leads. We should be talking about agility, right? I mean, I don't know that that's something that leaders are thinking about and talking about. So I love that you brought that up and if you said it's a, it's a non-negotiable. mark, I have a little confession to make sometimes I think I'm being at, but I really wonder if it's agility or, you know, for this one with the flow. Right. So, well maybe when I say, I think, you know, maybe I should say what I think the flow should be. Cause I may have a different perspective on that sometimes. I'm a planner. I need a plan. So how do we know? If a leader and the person being coached are really being agile, what are, what are the things that we should be looking.

Mark 9:55

Yeah. You know, it's interesting because when you look at the dynamics, that's required of a mindset it's to be agile of the mindset, that they're really things that we're already doing. If you think about it in terms of coaching practices it's just being more cognizant of the changing of. And how the quickness of it turns, because your question, what I was listening is I was listening to you. I was thinking now she talking about being flexible or is she talking about being an agile. To me, the just going with the flow is flexible. And think about it like this flexibility is something that can work with time. There's time and space and being flexible you cause where agility is something that is quick. It needs to happen really soon and really quick. And there's a lot of dynamics in both of the flexibility and. And they can come to the same outcome, but the biggest differentiation between the two is the time factor. And so if you're a planner, planners might struggle with having a mindset, I've got to change, be willing to change quick because planners, you know, they want to see a plan and then they want to see it executed. So, yeah, so the, the driving distinction there would be, would be the two, but here's a, here's a couple of things that I've, thought about. In terms of planning because planters can be agile is one, is there is a positive attitude. Do you have an attitude and a mindset that says there's no failure, only feedback. You know, cause you use a planner. We think that we don't get the plan executed. We're going to fail. You have to just switch and go beyond just the planning outcome to the feedback outcome, because planning no longer you can't. We really can't. Count on the plan being executed, at least perfectly the way that we plan it out. Agility in a planner's mindset says, I need to plan with agility. I need to plan and execute with an understanding that something could change. So that just requires a really positive attitude and able to change directions. And the other thing too, is a, self-learner just keeping yourself informed, keeping yourself up to date. Most leader coaches are readers, right? We're thinking we want to be innovative. We want to be able to be a leader coach, and you can't work with leaders if you're not up to date with what's going on in culture and trends and and all that, but also team successes where the goal is. So it's not just about you implementing the change, the people become important. Think about Amazon, for example, there there's been several articles written about Amazon and within their whole culture. Is the, they're calling it an agility culture. I don't think Amazon uses that term, but that's really what they are. They send out algorithms, think about this, those algorithms collect data, and that's how they stay on top of the feedback. They take the feedback and then they apply the needs to their product or to their delivery system and what they carry and what they don't. So being able to look at the big picture of success, looking at the team, the plan, isn't just about the plan, but it's about the product, the outcome, the people, and also collaborative and then proactive. Nobody has at least in the Organization or a growing team, no one person contains the idea any more all alone or the, even the ideal of what it should look like. But collaboration opens up many ideas and then being able as a team to talk about what is the best outcome, and then, you know, assimilating all those so collaborative and proactive, not. Talking about it, but putting it to practice by delegating. I remember as a planner, I had the injury and will probably tell you this, but I had the worst time delegating. I didn't let go because I thought I'm going to do it the best and it has to be done precisely this way. So that, that was a hurdle for me to really grow in. But I've learned over time that the delegation is so important for the implementation of collaboration. You cannot have effective collaboration if you don't delegate. If you're just listening to voices and everybody's getting input that that's going to fall short of a real authentic outcome, where it's something that's going to be impacted. And then active listening skills. Again, that's just listening to the person, listening to what they're really saying. When I was going through my coaching practice, I kept getting pinged by my mentor because I'm wanting to teach into discovery. It is not reality. And I mean, that really stuck with me. So I had to really learn to active listening to what people were saying. And so that I could then respond with innovative thoughts that would lead them into their innovative. So active listening and then a willingness to fail forward again at planners, they really want to play an executed and often having done planning felt like I would fail if this plan did not get implemented. And I didn't care if I left everybody behind this plan was going to have.

Debby 15:06

At all,

Mark 15:09

you see Debby, I'm

JoAnn 15:10

the best thing ever happened. I've helped Debbie a lot with being

Debby 15:16

agile and flexible.

Mark 15:19

Yeah, no, you have to, you have to be willing. And again, the other thing I've learned over time is there is no failure unless you just dwell in. And then you don't change from it. You don't morph into something greater because when we, when we fail it's only the innovative step to move forward in a new direction. And if we can get that, especially as leader coaches, then we become very effective because we understand that feedback is what we're looking for, not the failure. So that's really. I think that's good indicators and good insight for planners. Want to execute, but are struggling with agility. Yeah, no, that's

Debby 16:02

really, really good stuff in there. And the fear of failure is such a barrier that I see in so many leaders. And so all of that, that you said, I think is really powerful for people to hear is it's about information and feedback. It's not about dwelling in what you think is the failure. Right? I think that's a really powerful message.

Mark 16:23

And those are the things I, cause like I said, I've been a planner and those are things I had to go through in my mind. Okay. What is it that I am either fearful of agility. One is I'm going to, I'm going to fail. If I let go of this and I've moved into collaboration, I delegate the project's going to fail, but that's not empowering anybody. So that was a really powerful lesson.

JoAnn 16:43

Well, you are kind of speaking to what I would like to ask you is what is a personal story you have where you've had to work on your own agility? Can you share one with us?

Mark 16:54

Yeah, I've got a really good story for that one. So after 18 years in San Diego, I thought I knew a gelati was, I was working with a lot of young entrepreneurs and they were by far more agile than I was. There were young, innovative, it was hard to help contain them in their thought processes because they're young, they're not tempered. And they were all over the board all over the map and it was really difficult working. I realize that the problem was not them. It was me. But I just kept plowing through trying to coach them into direction and and yet trying to maintain some type of agility with them. And so I did that for the last 18 years, but the breakthrough for me, for real, when agility became an authentic and a thing. Experience for me is when I was in the state of Washington. And I was working with an organization that had several hundred employees between California, Washington and Oregon, and I eventually was promoted to the learning. Manager for the state of Washington and did some in Oregon and California. The company was struggling, but we worked together as a strong team and the company became the number one leading organization, especially in the state of Washington. Then COVID hit. And that changed everything. It was a care organization where we, it was caring for people working alongside people. We had to go into fast mode and, but my mind had already authorized certain habits that were non-negotiables. That really got in my way. As we started meeting during COVID, we had to shut everything down. As you know, it just went silent. You just heard crickets and. We started meeting through zooms. We being the leadership of the company that I was working with and we started talking about steps that we needed to make happen because we had people that we had to care for in those states. We began collaborating and talking over the next week and a half. And this was back in 2000. What year are we in 22? This was back in 2020. So we started working really fast collaborating we were all delegated to tasks. We had the, each person was responsible finding out what resources were available to us. Um, That the federal government was providing, what resources did we already have and what resources did we not have that we needed, that we could, we were having a difficult time finding. So as a team, we collaborated, we worked together. We found the resources, we got the company back up and going care became virtual, but that was just part of the norm at that point. The, the bigger outcome without going into a really long story is that we were able to pick business up. Grow during that time we were able to care for our people. We were able to care for our employees and ongoing training continued. It just shifted in a way that the habits of my mindset don't do it. So once I identified personally, the habits that were blocking me from becoming a leader that can work with agility I had to work through those habits that were workforce habits and more. but once I, once we worked through that, we implemented a plan. It was very successful and it, it took all the executives, all the program directors, and it took us all through a process of ADKAR and which I led all the executives in the program, directors, region directors through ADKAR and it proved to be one of the most successful moments in the history of that company. We actually grew during that time. I learned that agility. It's something that has to be woven in with everything. But at that moment agility or the concept of being an agile an agile leader that became real. And today I continue practicing a lot of that.

Kevin 20:40

It's a very interesting story. And as you were talking about planners and agility, people who plan, well, what about the rest of us? Who I don't want to say I don't plan, but I am more of a reactor sometimes. I think I'm reacting in this situation and kind of like Debbie said, am I just going with the flow? For us who are not natural born planners and for everyone really mark, what are some strategies that we can have, and you might distinguish between maybe a person who's being a leader, coach, what strategies they might use. There are people. And then I'd also just like for individuals, what can we do to be more.

Mark 21:21

Yeah. I mean, cause I've been doing anything I've been doing with coaching, especially lately. That's probably why I've talked about agility so much lately because I see the importance of it. And I think in everybody's thinking today, agility is certainly something that we should all embrace. But you know, some of the strategies that I've, I've, you know, thinking a lot about this, some of the strategies that I personally have employed was. Kind of coaching in a way that provokes in a good way, the coachee to outside the box, thinking, you know, just start brainstorming, let's talk about brainstorming ideas that are not even, you know, in your realm of thinking, let's just go way outside the box and then we can reign it in. We can organize it, we can do whatever, but let's just think outside the box of dreams and possibilities kind of get. A new perspective. And of course the goal is to coach them into a new paradigm. But get a new perspective. And then I tend to listen, track, ask, and inform, listen, intently, track what they're saying, find the patterns, listen to the, the common things that you hear coming up. And then from that pivot into questions that are relevant to the patterns that they're discussing, because you've heard. They're informing you, they're talking to you about it. You're tracking with them because you're listening and that's probably 90% of coaching. Right. And then you ask the questions based on what they give you and then inform direct and give guidance into what they. Shared, but also cultivating trust as with any relationship, the more trust that you have the easier it is to work through to coach but also walk with them. That's the. You know, the feet to the ground, walk with them help them to in some type of a conversation piece, whether it's mentoring. I think some people use the word mentoring until that application process and assimilation of that new perspective starts to bear fruit even. being a part with them through that transition. So many times we just kind of give them what they want and then send them on their way. But really caring enough to even say, Hey, let's talk about what it's gonna look like in terms of assimilation. I think even new people who might struggle with finding strategies by just applying that, you know,

Kevin 23:45

You're going to have to share those steps again, what's a smart, so slow down for us who are taking notes here?

Mark 23:51

listen. Yes. Crack track with them. Ask questions and then inform.

Kevin 24:02

Thank you.

JoAnn 24:04

That's a lot of information to take in. I'll be listening to this podcast again, myself. We're

Mark 24:09

going to

Kevin 24:09

have to solicit. We're going to have to solicit mark. We need a job aid mark. You might be the first one to have a, you might be the first one to have a PDF download from our podcast. You got something we'd love to see it,

JoAnn 24:27

you know? As a leader coach. I struggle sometimes with being agile and it may be the reason I struggle is because I'm resistant. So what is one thing that you would recommend that I do?

Mark 24:43

You know, when I'm stuck, I've got a friend that says you need some. Um, When I just can't seem to grasp or for whatever reason might be, I have to find out, you know, what's causing the resistance, you know, resistance leaders. Usually when you confront them, they either become defensive and start pack playing the power base, or they become the victim of. What's keeping why being resistance what's causing the resistance. And so I would tell them like many times that I've been told during my end resistance, you need coaching. So I would tell them you need some agility coaching. So, and I don't really know how to answer that any better. I mean that you, they, they probably need some kind of coaching because that's a barrier and that's what coaches do is we help people get unstuck.

JoAnn 25:30

That's true. That's true.

Debby 25:32

I find it interesting. And then listen to you, mark. That you've hit on. So many of the words that we talk about in our

JoAnn 25:38

book or our podcasts, and you've

Debby 25:40

talked about mindset, listening, habits, barriers, like you're, you're hitting them all in this. That's awesome. So we have a few questions that we like to ask our guests as we wrap up today. These are, our questions will be, just get to get inside your head a little bit more away from this particular word. But before we let you go, I'd like to ask you those and see what your answers are to these questions. What is a book that you think a leader coach should

Mark 26:08

read? Do I have to list one or can I list a couple? Okay. So I have three books that have really radicalized the way that I view coaching and diffusion of innovation. Is probably one of the, one of those books that you have to read a couple of times, but it is packed with helping coaches, leader, coaches, understand to a coach to have a coachee, and then lead that coachee through an innovative, ideal by helping. Cocci see that what they currently have is insufficient, where for where they're going. So how do you diffuse that innovation in such a way as a coach, to a coachee to show them that they've got to learn to let go of some things because they're insufficient and there's something better. So diffusion of innovation is a really good book. And then also Bob Logan's work from followers to leaders. Very practical really good book with some really good insights. That's by Bob Logan and Tara Miller. And then also the rise of the agile leader. Can you make the shift by Chuck Mueller? Really good, really good book, very practical and insights on how to become an agile leader.

Debby 27:25

Yeah. So like you said, you, you have those moments where you're like, okay, I need to be coached. Right. So it's that, it sounds like you've had those opportunities to be coached as well. One question, have you been asked that gave you pause or made you think a little deeper or a little differently?

Mark 27:42

So what question have I been asked? To make me pause and go a little deeper? Probably was the time when I was asked, why are you so. And that went through that, that whole conversation came during a time when I was going through a lot of transition. And I just, you know, my, my sensing was, I just couldn't do anything. Right. For whatever reason, things just were not turning out. Right. And I don't, I wouldn't say that developed PTSD, but it certainly created with me a fear of moving forward, because it just seemed like I couldn't do anything. Right. And so I developed a reluctancy to any place of leadership and I found myself trying to make excuses to not engage leadership. And there's a whole story of course, behind all that. But so that question, why are you such a reluctant leader? Really stirred something in me, but having worked through that question is brought me to a place. And I think I'm still growing from that question to find out what it was on a much deeper level in my inward processing that kept getting in my way of making an impact.

Debby 28:56

Wow. Yeah. You know, it's powerful when the question sticks with you, right? Like, and congratulations to you for doing this.

Mark 29:05

That's hard work. Right. But somebody's got to do it.

Debby 29:11

So, mark, what is your word all

JoAnn 29:13

pitching?

Mark 29:14

So my word here that I would add with this as resilience because you, gotta make decisions. You need to be an agile. But you don't have to lose yourself in the process of who you are in the middle of being a person who is agile. You're you're going to go through things that are difficult, but you're going to bounce back again. It's a mindset. It cause difficult times. Only move us forward that that's, that's all they're going to do. They're not going to hold us back. They're just going to move us forward. It's a real mindset of saying, how can I look at this situation in a way that I can respond quickly and easily and move forward. So resilience, bounce back.

JoAnn 29:55

Well, that's a good word. That's a good word to end on mark. Thank you for that. And thank you so much for being our guests today. And, and I want to thank our audience too, for listening to us today, too. And if you want to check out more of our podcasts you know, look up. Word on coaching and follow us on our Facebook page coaches three. And before we close out, Debbie, Kevin, do you have anything you'd like to add to the conversation?

Debby 30:27

Yeah. I just want to thank mark and I'm leaving. I write this down. There's no failure only feedback. So I'm going to write that and put it next to my laptop, mark.

Mark 30:37

Excellent.

Kevin 30:38

I just like to say, thanks mark. You got me over here thinking about. Agility being intentionally being prepared and willing to change and that as an expectation. So we appreciate that and look forward to interacting with you more and learning and thinking about this concept even

Mark 30:55

more. Yeah. Thank you so much.

JoAnn 30:58

Yeah. Mark show. Thank you once again and thank you to our audience. So until next time, that's the word? I'm coaching.