Season 4 Episode 6: The Word on Coaching - Stewardship

In this episode we explore the concept of stewardship with Brent Sadler. Brent currently serves as the Chief Community Investment Officer for the Tulsa United Way. Brent has several years of leadership experience and takes a coaching approach to leading his team,

In our conversation with Brent, he shares with us how stewardship is a guiding principle of how he leads his people and how they approach their work and goals of the organization.

We explore how stewardship is at the heart of how leaders should see their role with their teams and their work. 

Is stewardship just for leaders? Listen in and see what Brent recommends about this question and tips how to be a better steward.

We hope you enjoy this episode, please join our mailing list, and check out quick guide about powerful questions: "Embrace the Power of Questions!"    A Quick Reference Guide to Getting the Answers You Need.

Show Notes:

Podcast Guest

Brent Sadler
(49) Brent Sadler | LinkedIn


Suggested books: 

• Leadership: Theory and Practice Ninth Edition
  by Peter G. Northouse  (Author)

Transcript

Kevin 0:08

Hi, everyone. Welcome to the word on coaching podcast. I'm Kevin fusilier. I'm here with Debbie and Joanne, Joanne and Debbie. Say hello?

JoAnn 0:17

Hello? Hello. Hello everybody.

Kevin 0:21

We are coaches three, three friends with years of leadership and coaching experience. We want to share our passion with others. Our podcasts are for leaders, whether you, have the formal title or not the focus on one word that relates to leadership and coaching. We, along with our guests give you tips information, sometimes a fresh perspective and always. Always a lot of support. Because we know that leadership can be hard today. I'm excited to have one of my best friends. Brent Sattler we've worked together. We've gone to school together and we have just done a lot of things. We've taken on some tough projects. And Brent is someone that you can always go to when you need someone to help you, I guess, clarify your thinking. He can take something very complex. They can break it down and he can turn into a place where he can actually take some action. when we were thinking about podcast guests, I said, we should have Brent on our podcast. So Brett, please give us a little introduction of yourself.

Brent 1:30

Kevin, thank you so much. And Debbie and Joanne for having me on today, excited and Kevin filled the exact same way. We've been around together and done a lot of things and from a work standpoint, from a family support standpoint. So really appreciate you from a leadership and that manner. Perspective, probably then the last 18 years I worked at state farm insurance for about 19 years. I currently work at the Tulsa area United way where I'd volunteered for about eight, nine years prior to at one point, they asked me just to make a career change in come And work here. I'm the chief community investment officer for the Tulsa United way. And I have a great opportunity to really be the steward of the process for our community. It's the community dollars that are donated to the United way. It's community volunteers that make the decision on how those dollars are going to be invested across our community. So I really do have a job that is all about stewardship.

Kevin 2:33

Well, he said it and the word for today for this episode is stewardship and Brent shared with me that. His team, they have their values listed on the wall in their office. And the words on that wall are steward intentional and performance. And I want Brent to tell us a little bit about those words. I've talked to, the people who work for brand, and they always talk about his approach to leadership and the things that he does. Today, as we look at this stewardship, He's a person who has experience and a track record of building strong teams. And that's one of the things when he talks about stewardship, as I know that he feels like he's a steward of the people who work for him. And so I'll let him get into that a little bit more, about him not just talking the talk, but walking the walk.

Brent 3:26

Well, thank you, Kevin. I appreciate that. And very proud of, of the words. And we'll talk a little bit more, I think later about how those. Got there, but just a quick overview and there's nothing, too great. But stewardship in my mind is very simple. It's to hold something and trust for another. And just like I described, the role that we have for investment is to, is to make sure that our stakeholders being the donors. Being the community volunteers, the partner agencies for the United way. I don't have ownership of that. It's something that we hold in trust for the community and we help make the best decisions from a stewardship standpoint. Being intentional is exactly what that means from a team standpoint. We want to be intentional in the decisions that we make collectively and advancing our processes. You're making decisions. And from a performance standpoint, that's a little bit, more there because I do like the, more of the academic aspect of, of performance, which is a behavior plus a standard. I'll break it down just a little bit. So behavior is simply an action that can be observed. Standard, however, is a predetermined measure of success. And so it's great in the workplace to do things, but we need folks to perform in the workplace. I need to perform, we need our organization to perform. And so having predetermined measure success, something that we always want to keep in our mind, the quickest example is typing. And so I'm telling my age at this point, because I had typing class when I was a junior in high school. The goal of typing was to type so many words a minute without a mistake. And so if I was going to a job and the job required me to to type 65 words a minute, without a mistake that I can only type 35. A minute, then I have the behavior of typing, but I can't perform the action that it took to actually do the work. So that's the difference between being able to have a behavior and be able to exert something, but not, not necessarily meeting it from a performance standpoint and some other things that go along, you know, with that, I think from a leadership standpoint, It's my job to be the catalyst and helping determine and define, measure success with others. And from a stewardship standpoint, it's not mine to own. It's mine to help gather and hold the trust for others. And so when we talk about those goals, they're not going to be my goals. I think, well, I'll stop there.

JoAnn 6:03

It's in the right direction of because I was go, I was, first of all, thank you for that definition. I love the way you explained your values. I think if leaders did that more often, we probably would have organizations running a lot smoother. If first of all, it sounds like you are very much invested in those values. And second of all, it sounds like you not only invest in them, but you live them out and there's an expectation everybody else does. So I want to commend you for that. As Kevin said, we're coaches. So tell us how stewardship, because I love that you're bringing that in. How does stewardship relate to being a leader coach?

Brent 6:45

I think that number one from it's not about me. So from a leadership standpoint, I'm a coach. I mean, the first question that I'm gonna gonna say this, that, you know, it's not about me inside the organization I'm not going to look to operate from a position of authority. I'm looking to operate from a position of relationship. And I think from a coaching perspective, that that's what you're looking to do as a coach and with the folks that you work with. It's the same thing is true from a leadership perspective. When we look at, I have responsibility for folks, I have responsibility for a budget. I have responsibility for some strategic direction, but I don't own what manage. I think we get confused sometimes. So from a coaching standpoint, I have responsibility. I have accountability, but I separate the ownership aspect of those, of those two things. We've got to do this together. We do it as a team and from a partnership perspective. So from the coaching standpoint I want to always start with, it's not about me. It's about we, it's about the way we go. And I know that sounds cliche, but I really do believe that that. That's the place that we, that we start with. And as you're beginning to coach, I think it's asking that internal question of, of folks where where do you stand? How do you define leadership? You know, where, what is it that you want to be when you're working with other people? How do you want to be when you're working with others?

Debby 8:10

Great. Those are great reflection questions for all these. At first, I want to tell you, Brett, I got all A's in my typing class every semester. I want you to know that was my, it was my jam. I love so much of what you said and I, I feel like so many times leaders do rely too much on what they think is their authority or their title. So I love the focus on you coming from it, from the relationship. And so you've given us a definition, you've talked about this a little bit. And sometimes for people to really understand that they need to kinda hear a story of, of how it plays out, right. What what it looks like. So do you have a, a personal story of how you've worked on your own sport chip that you would be willing to share with us to let us see what it looks and sounds like?

Brent 8:58

Yeah, I believe my first from a first management, our first leadership role that that I had the opportunity to serve, to serve in and myself and another peer had come up with an idea to implement across the zone. So it was a really large program that almost really became its own standalone thing. We made that pitch. We were provided the opportunity to do the work. It was a process of performance team is what it is, what it was, but we needed to know people to work in that space. And the people were going to come from the learning and development department. Those folks were my peers. And so one day we have an idea the next day, we're going to implement that idea. Folks from this group are going to raise their hand to come in, want to be a part of this concept and this and this idea. So. I don't know that I necessarily thought of it as a sense of stewardship at the time, but we had to use the personal motivation, the intrinsic motivation that they had to want to be a part of the group to gain that buy-in. So one day we're friends, one day we're peers. Well, we are the next. As well. And so being able to talk about the work that yes, some ideas and things came from myself and from a partner and a peer of mine and going forward. But we were going to do this work together because we had already done work together. So this concept and this idea of using. A personal power versus a positional power that oftentimes in leadership you, you get, or you gain wasn't there. And so we had to approach it. We had to move things forward and move it relatively quickly and to gain it that way. So that's kind of the first part. when I came to the United way, there was a little discontinuity on the team and one of the things that I was. Able to do was to speak to these concepts and the things that I'd learned before with this team. And it was this whole concept of stewardship that we don't own. That's not our money. We're not making the decision. We are in a position. To hold these things in trust for other people. And it's our job to do that. We manage knowledge for people, give it to them so that they can make decisions you know, better decisions for our community. So I think it was born in a place out of necessity because I didn't have the, I didn't really have the, the positional component, but. As I went through the leadership journey as I transitioned into a whole nother organization and a whole nother team, this concepts continue to resonate. And that's we also discussed, we did this within the first week that I was here, that we sat down and said, this is what we're going to be about. We're going to be about this as a business unit. We're going to, we're going to be stewards. We're going to be intentional. And we're going to apply concepts of performance that include a standard of the way that we're going to choose to work. I think anyone that's been in the leadership role in that kind of thing, sometimes. You're back into some, some things maybe I backed into this one. I don't know, but I believe it's always been, it's always just been the approach that I've taken. It's I'm just really asking the question, you know, it's not about me and how do we do these things together?

Kevin 12:28

Tell me where does stewardship come from? Does it come from your heart or come from your head

Brent 12:33

I think it comes from both and I, you know, I think it, for me, it comes from it comes from a faith perspective. It comes from church. It comes from where I was raised. It comes from rural Oklahoma. I think, you know, some of the, some of the things that was exposed to. So I do think the sort of heart component to it. But I also think there's a lot of process and a lot of organizational aspect to it. I believe that again, my role as a leader is to plan and set goals that produce a value for the organization, whether it would be state farming United way, and then to work, to achieve those. But I believe that my leadership, I believe that my job is to establish effective pathways to achieve those organizational goals and the way that we go about achieving those pathways is to work with people. Sometimes it's going to be through coaching. Sometimes it's going to be through consultation. Sometimes it's going to have to be through some form of. But the spirit of which we approach those things always is about the stewardship aspect of holding my responsibility and trust for those that I work with and the organization at the same time. So I believe that coaching consulting and managing are also. You know a part of this and we can blend those things together. As long as we hold the spirit of, it's not about me, it's about we it's about others and it's the way that I can choose to impact other people's goals from a pathway standpoint and how we achieve those for the organization.

Kevin 14:19

How does a leader become a better steward and what things should they focus on? Practice stewardship.

Brent 14:27

I think the first time, and we have talked about this quite a bit and had lots of visits from individuals that would come to my office and say, I want to go into leadership. And the first question is why, so what is it that, why do you want to go to Leadership? What is it that you want to do? And so many people can't, don't necessarily able to articulate. Really what it is that they want to do and how they want to go about it. As far as being a steward, one of the first things I want to know, and I, I want to hear is that I wanna do this to better others. I want to do this to help the organization. There are intrinsic rewards to being in leadership and that's okay. That's fine. But I also want to hear a lot about the intrinsic aspect of this. What, from a learning standpoint, from a development, how am I going to help other people, how am I going to be able to. Around, maybe it's a form of subject matter expertise which are know call consulting. How would we, how do you use that? But if I want to be a good steward, I want to hear uh, I want to approach things from that trend, the intrinsic value. And, check myself Interest, as much as I can. So from a coaching standpoint, those are the questions I would want to ask. Why do you want to do this? I mean, really simple and just listen, listen to the response. And I know that's incredibly simple and probably coaching one-on-one, but be pretty surprised at having those conversations and not being able to necessarily articulate that.

Debby 15:57

Yeah, I can't tell you how many. That's one of my first questions I asked when I start working with leaders is why leadership. I can't tell you how many people are like, will say, I've never thought about that, or I've never been asked that and they're already in a leadership role. So it always surprises me. And I really think you need to think about that, right? Like you need to have that. Why in your head? So would you say stewardship is just for me?

Brent 16:26

No, I think we're going to think about things from a stewardship. If we're going to hold things in trust, we're holding things in trust for one another. And that requires a relationship that requires a partnership. I had that conversation and we talk about that on our team is I'm not really interested in. The management aspect or the micromanagement aspect of things. And don't allow me place a caveat on this. I've been from my leadership journey, I've been able to make selections, choose folks in a lot of ways and a lot of times, so we're able to have these conversations that, that I'm able to select people that have the right buyer call the right mindset. One about collective collective and stewardship but also subject some subject matter expertise that they're able to bring to the team in order to advance us on the pathways for goal achievement. But it's about the partnership. So yeah, it's for everybody. Because if you're looking to me to direct and to, and to guide everything that just, that just doesn't work. I mean, it has to be there. You have to own that direction as well. Part of my goal is to help with that development, to help find those pathways, to help remove obstacles and pathways on the way to goals. And I think that those are part of my my ownership and my responsibility. One of the things that I, that, that I don't care for. I, I don't, no one can say they worked for me. I don't, that's not something that I let go. And I said, well, I work for Brent or no, we work for the organization. We worked for the goals in the mission. That the organization supports. If you work for me what you're speaking to is some form of ownership. And that's not really what I want. I want us to be on this together from a partnership perspective, because we're holding this in trust with each other. So it's not just for me, it's for everyone to be able to advance and think about going forward.

Debby 18:34

So when you're moving people from that me to we. Aspect of beings. How do you support as a leader, coach? How do you support someone in becoming a stored or even shifting to that mindset?

Brent 18:51

Well, like I said, I mean, if I'm hiring for. I'm listening, I'm listening for it right up front. I want it. I'm listening for those kinds of those kinds of thought processes. I'm listening for the way that they describe in the answers. I want to hear the way that they're sharing that information. Now I've had instances where I've had teams, where people, you know, maybe some folks were, were already there. If their self-interest is too great. And they don't want to really be part of the team, then they'll sell, then they would, I've had it happen a couple of times. They will self select out. I want everyone to be successful. So let's find the best place for you to be successful. And again, I think that's, again, trying to hold that, that trust for those individuals, this might not be the.

JoAnn 19:39

Well, what if I'm one of those folks who are really trying, but there there's things in my way, there's barriers. What are, first of all, what are some barriers that you see for folks and how would you help them overcome

Brent 19:52

them? You know, especially as we're, as we're learning things and working in organizations. And certainly when you're, when we're younger, we don't necessarily know how to navigate their maybe subject matter that we don't necessarily understand or to know. And from that standpoint, it does take the consultative thought process. There are things that I can help that I've been. Maybe I've done these things before, when I flipped the hat from coach to consultant, then I'm able to help them understand this may be a way you might can accomplish X. And so try to use some subject matter expertise from that, that standpoint. And that's okay. I mean, that's, that's, that's part of the, that's part of the job as well is to help people get from one place to the next. So I, I think we see it a lot with, if you don't know the answers, you, you don't know how to operate. Maybe it's your first job. You want to get in, you want to do well, but you don't really know a whole lot. That's okay too. I mean again, I think from a stewardship standpoint, we're holding the development of that person and trust. So that, again, that's part of my part of that responsibility is to help that individual grow, to identify what it is that they can do and do differently and try to get them to own that space. Number one, and to give that development you know, to them. I do talk about is his development. I do believe that development is the responsibility of the person. I'm here to help with the pathways. I'm here to help with opportunity to or maybe resources to help with it. I've had some instances where people will come and, you know, you're not developing. W I, I don't, I don't know. That's completely the role of the manager and of the leader without the insights and support of the person that wants the development. And what are you willing to do at the end of the day, you know, for yourself. So I want to help provide the resources and I want to be able to help and support that. But I want to do it without being the caregiver. I don't want the patriarchal aspect of this either. I want them to be able to own that component. So I think sometimes the leadership we get to this ownership component, this responsibility that I'm a caregiver of people. Well, I think that's too patriarchy. I think that I don't think that's a good thing and we gotta own this together. We've got to be in partnership to work that development W, you know, going forward really, I mean together, but it's really your responsibility,

JoAnn 22:31

you know? There may be some folks who are listening. That's maybe not ever thought about stewardship as part of their role, especially as a leader coach. So what is one thing that you would recommend for folks? Who's like, you know, I, I get what you're saying and I really want to become a steward or maybe a better story. What is one thing that. That you would suggest that someone who really wants to step into that role

Brent 22:58

do yeah, I think, I think you have to ask first of all, you have to have the statement that it's not about me, and then you have to answer the question then what is this about? And in answer those questions, honestly, for yourself, it's okay. Whatever the answer is, but, but I think that's the discovery component of where you're going to find where you're going to stand in that, in that leadership journey. You have to be able to ask the question of why do I want to do this? Why do I want to, to be a leader? And if it's about me, I need to understand that. And going forward, if it's about the self-interest in those things Then it's probably not going to be the stewardship role at first, but but I believe that many, many leaders, I think we do get to that, that place where it's not about me, it's about it's about others and how do we, how do we advance it and help from our perspective to advance, to pass things with other people.

Kevin 24:00

Like that framework. If it's not about me, then what is it about, you know, thinking about that from how you lead, how you work, how you collaborate, what is this really about? You know, I've been in corporate America in different roles, in different organizations. And when I think about people really coming together to get things done, we've done our best work. When we really had our eyes focused on something much, much bigger than. Us as individuals are even, even our team that we were owning something for the organization. So I can definitely see how stewardship would come into play in that. And I appreciate about, about the mindset of being a good steward and we appreciate your insights, but before we let you go today, we have three questions. And we promise they won't be very hard questions, but we do want to know your answers. So the first one is what is a book that you think a leader coach should read?

Brent 25:07

Well, I do have a propensity for the academic. So I'm going to give you the academic book. It's the north house leadership theory and practice. And the reason I would, how I would say that is because it's really a pretty easy read the way that it's laid out. And it has different measurements, different scales, different things that you can test out for yourself to see what things might look like. I think probably gives a bit of a history from a leadership standpoint, kind of work where things looked and, and going forward. And the reason I think that it's an important book is because. It's really asking the, asking the leadership question. And trying to understand the why you want to be in the leadership and where you might fall. You might be transactional, you might be authentic. You may be trade and maybe more to trade or the, the great man leadership, the thought process. If you believed that, keep reading the book, there's nothing more than that. You're going to need to know about leadership at the end of the. So I it's an academic, but it's an, it's a very accessible and easy read.

Kevin 26:22

Thank you very much that a book I can give it a thumbs up also. It's a must read for people who aspire and then even people who want to be in leadership. The next question is about questions, Brent. So what question have you been asked? That gave you pause, made you stop and think a little bit deeper or a little differently.

Brent 26:46

Oh man. I, I know, I know we're, we're talking about leadership, but I think that the biggest question I was asking the workplace was, was when I had my supervisor come to me and say, would you, we would like for you to consider. Uh, Role would you like to be in leadership? And so these responses to these things are, I've tried to be a student of this work, you know, to try to understand I was, like I said, I was a little bit later in coming probably to, to management. I didn't start a job and just immediately get thrust into a leadership role. I've worked in an organization for quite some time. I've seen a lot of leaders, good, bad, different things that we'd want to do. And, and I didn't know if it was something I necessarily wanted to do. And so to be approached with it and for it was, was really one of the things that I had to think about. The deepest, because I, I think I really understood how important it was that what I do impacts other people and the way that I behave, the way that I lead, the way that I think impacts others. And I want them, I want them to be along in that journey. I'm not looking to abdicate any responsibility from a stewardship standpoint and saying that it's about the we. I understand that that leadership role is important and it's in the way that it's been established and defined for us. It really is about that ownership and looking to somebody to do something. So it was, it was really significant for me to have to stop and say, do I, want to do this? Can I do this? And I be, can I be somebody that can do this with others? Because that's what the job is. With and through other folks to achieve organizational goals.

Kevin 28:50

Well, that's, that's interesting. The pause and think, do I want to be a leader? It sounds like from what Debbie said, maybe some other people should take some pause and reflect on that question. And the last question, this is an easy one. What is your word on coaching?

Brent 29:09

You got to know what it is. I would say you need to know what coaching is and what coaching is not. And, and I think that, I think that's a really important, I think it's a really important thing. It's not counseling. It's not mentoring. It's not consultation. That's subject matter expertise. He can be, it can be some form of feedback, but understand what, understand what it is. And then there are a lot, and there are many different definitions, but define it for yourself. Know what it is. You're getting into a coaching relationship. If you've aren't coach, make sure it's defined and share that definition with other people. There's been lots of instances and things that I've heard and talked about, folks that really, what they are wanting to do is be a mentor and they're wanting to share experiences and they want to share, and those can be outstanding relationships and there's nothing wrong with that. But when I think about a word on coaching, it is to know what it is.

Kevin 30:09

Well, we will take that to know what it is. Well, thank you. Thank you, Brent, for sharing your your subject matter expertise, your wisdom, your insights. It's been a pleasure. And Debbie, Joanne, do you have any final words?

JoAnn 30:27

Just a big, thank you. And I'm going to take some of this stuff and talk to the people that I support other leaders and ask them some of these questions. And I really like, I think a lot of people need to look, are they good stores? And so thank you for that.

Brent 30:45

Thank you for having me. I really, I appreciate.

Debby 30:48

Yeah. And I also will add my thanks sprint and where it's like ownership and trust are floating around in my head. But I think the big thing is no, no, your why? Right. That I think that's the big thing that is really standing out for me. So thank you.

Brent 31:04

Thank you.

Kevin 31:06

Thank you, Brett. Thanks to our audience for listening. Check out more of our word on coaching podcasts, wherever you listen to podcasts. One thing that we're really excited about right now is our book is coming out. Next month. So that'll be June of 2022. Please connect with us on Facebook at coaches three. We have a Facebook page and until next time, that is the word on coaching.