Season 5 Episode 6: The Word on Coaching

This episode features Patty Marbury, Director of Training and Development for Finance at the University of Virginia.

Patty is a leader who has cultivated a coaching environment on her team and across the UVA campus. She is a leader who believes building strong relationships is key to being a leader and being a good leader-coach.

In our conversation with Patty, we talk about those Relationships. She shares real-world tips on how to build strong relationships which enable people to do their best work.

She shares insights on how essential it is to build trust in a relationship and how betraying trust is a sure way to damage relationships quickly.

Invest a few minutes in listening to this podcast. We believe you and your team will be on the road to building stronger relationships and creating a culture where coaching is the rule and not the exception.

We hope you enjoy this episode.

Check out our best-selling book The Word on Coaching released on June 14, 2022.

Amazon.com: The Word on Coaching: 9781737643807: Neely, Debby, Auger, Joann, Fuselier, Kevin: Books

Also, please check out quick guide about powerful questions: "Embrace the Power of Questions!" A Quick Reference Guide to Getting the Answers You Need.

Patty: 0:08

JoAnn: 0:08

everyone, and welcome to the word on coaching. I'm Joanne and I'm here tonight with my colleagues Debbie and Kevin.

Kevin: 0:16

Hello everybody. Hi

JoAnn: 0:18

everybody. We're three friends with years of leadership and coaching experience who want to share our passion with others. Our podcast are for leaders, whether you have a formal title or not. And we focus on one word that relates to leadership and coaching. We know leadership is. So along with our guests we hope to give you some tips, some information and a fresh, maybe a fresh perspective. But we will always give you lots of support. And today we're really excited to have. Friend and a coach Patty Marbury. I met Patty actually in a coaching class,

Patty: 1:00

I believe. Yes. and

JoAnn: 1:02

so Patty is the director of learning and development for the finance department of the University of Virginia, and I've known. Gosh, what, 10, 12 years now? That's,

Patty: 1:17

Yeah. Yeah. About 10, 10, 11 years. Yeah.

JoAnn: 1:21

Patty's one of those folks who really, what I refer to as took to coaching, she in the class, she really was passionate about showing up for the, for the classes and passionate about learning the skill and the art. And I have literally watched her grow into a wonderful coach and I, I know that she's pretty much started a grassroots effort at UVA with this whole thing called coaching. So Patty, Introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about yourself and we'll jump in

Patty: 1:55

here. Thank you all for having me. I really appreciate it. I'm really excited about talking about. My word, which I won't reveal yet, but so I am, as Joanne said, I'm the training and development director, or learning and development either way saying it is fine. At the University of Virginia for UVA finance and So essentially anyone at the university that works with the finance system or finance processes, procedures, policies, whatever. We, our training department is the one that does that for them. Um, Develops training, facilitates workshops develops online training, all of that. And so I'm the manager of that team. There's five people on the team, that's what I do. That's my job. But then also within that and where I've been able to kind of use my coaching skills and, you know, put everything out there as far as coaching goes, is that within that job too? And I can tell you a little bit more about how that came to be later, a little bit later. But I also have the. Of being able to do like leadership development and other professional development within finance. And so we have about a team of about 130, 150 people. And so any training and development that's happening internally, whether it has to do with finance or. Is something that I have the responsibility for. I really love that aspect of my job because I can kind of live in both worlds. live in the finance world, which I don't really know much about, but the training and development world and also in the leadership development and coaching world. I love that. and I've been at UVA for 22 years. I, I always cringe when I say that cuz it makes me feel really old. But I live in Cro, Virginia at the foot of the Blue Ridge Mountains and I have husband Tony and two girls, two grown girls, Emily, who's 27, and Natalie, who's 24. Emily's in the army. She's an officer in the Army and. Apache helicopters and my younger daughter is a wildlife researcher and she's right now in the middle of the Pacific Ocean on the island of Rhoda and the Mariana Islands doing research. So I'm really proud of the work that they're doing and proud to be the mom and every

JoAnn: 4:18

right to be proud of what they're doing. They're amazing young women. Yes. Yep. Well, thank you, Patty. Thank you for that intro. When I contacted you about perhaps coming to the podcast and I asked you what word resonated with you, you fairly quickly picked this word, relationships. Mm-hmm. and You, you actually gave an explanation of why you picked it as well, and I'll let you share that interest.

Patty: 4:48

what did I say?

JoAnn: 4:51

But my first question for you about the word relationship. Mm-hmm. in this, what is important about relationships when it comes to coaching, and why should we talk about this word

Patty: 5:04

relationships. I thought that was a great question. And to be honest, it's the simplest question. It is. What's important about relationships is that the key to effective coaching, and when I say coaching, I mean coaching like we do as executive leadership coaches or. Coaching a colleague or coaching as a manager. And so a lot of what I will say has to do with my, with coaching as a manager, as well as the kind of leadership peer to peer coaching that we also do. The key to effective coaching is trust. And the only way to build trust is to develop relationships. That's why it's simple answer, trust is is the way to have effective coaching, and the only way to develop trust is to develop relationships. Couldn't agree with you more.

JoAnn: 6:01

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. oftentimes, I have seen leaders actually avoid building relationships because they didn't wanna get too close to mm-hmm. the people they were leading. Mm-hmm. and, and then wondered why they were having a hard time relating or having a hard time coaching them when they were trying to learn this thing that they, that was new to them, called coaching. So an excellent point, Patty. Excellent point.

Kevin: 6:26

When I heard you say simple, I was thinking about it's essential. That's the thing. It's essential that you have the relationship because the trust is something that you really can't move forward productively. Mm-hmm. in a coaching relationship if there's no trust. Cause you never, you never talk about the things that are really happening. You just talk about the things that are on the surface. And I'm curious if you could share some insights with us on how you've created an environ. At your workplace that promotes healthy relationships and that also support coaching. So how have you done that?

Patty: 7:00

Yeah. I think the best way to do that is to role model behavior that you think that you should be seeing in other people. I think people look to me for that kind of be, to model that kind of behavior because they know that I'm a coach and so if I'm a coach and I can't. Develop relationships or I can't be effective as a manager, then I'm not an effective coach or manager. So I think that role modeling the behavior is what I do. And so I'll expand on that a little bit. I. I wanna model that behavior that promotes healthy relationships. And I just naturally have a coaching style of leadership and so it's not that hard for me to model the behavior. If I was more directive or. Authoritative or even, even just more as a supportive leader and not a coach. I, it might be a little harder. I might have to go outta my comfort zone to model that behavior, but I think I'm naturally, that's where I feel best. So I do that. One of the things that I think is really important is getting to know each of my direct reports as individuals. I need to know what motivates them, makes them tick. Why they do what they do, what they get out of work, what, you know, what, what makes them wanna come to work in the morning and come to work. I mean, in maybe to their desk at home, it might be, or it might be into the office. but I need to know that. And one size doesn't fit all, so what motivates one of my direct reports might not motivate another. And so I might have to adjust my style of leadership. And we all know that that's, that's kind of what you have to do as a manager. I shouldn't say we all know that. Some people don't know that. They don't change that at all. I think that's one thing I do. And. I've been told by my direct reports that I'm the best manager they've ever had, and I really am proud of that. I built my team in finance in 2015. My manager at the time, and I did all the hiring of my team. I was the only person on my team, and then we hired four. Trainers and an assistant, they've been on my team since 2015. And I know that's not always great to have zero turnover, but I have to think that some of it has to do with the fact that that I provide them autonomy to do the jobs well, that I coach them, that I provide them freedom to do. What they need to do, be productive and you know, like encourage them and provide professional development opportunities and things like that. So I'm really proud of that. I also think it's really important, and we touched on this a little bit already, but to know them personally and so Joanne, you mentioned like you've seen leaders that can't develop those relationships and it's because they don't, they think that it's wrong to, to develop a personal relationship, and I just don't believe in that. I never have. I didn't, I've never believed in that from me and my managers, and I don't believe in that from me. My direct reports. I think it's important to know them personally, to know their families, to know their hobbies and interests. Know their birthdays, but also know if they don't like to celebrate their birthday. So that's really important. And then make yourself aware of any holidays. They celebrate things like that so that they know that they're being treated as a whole person and not just the the worker, or not just the person that you see at work. You know, they, they have lives on the outside as well. I have one-on-one meetings, check on, not just on goals and metrics, but on their health and welfare. Ask them about professional development, ask about career questions what they want to do, how they want to promote themselves, how they want to develop and what they wanna do next, those kinds of things. I think that's that's kind of a long way of saying that I role model that behavior for my organization and other people look to me for. Consultation on that.

Kevin: 11:13

I was sitting here listening to you and I was thinking, to sum up what you're saying or something that came through when you were talking, is that leadership is the ultimate people business, right. It's all about people and leading people, leadership, and then if you're coaching as a leader, it's even more about those relationships and getting to know people personally so you can help them achieve the things that they set out to achieve. So, mm-hmm. I love the examples that you shared and how, critically you have to model the behaviors. You can't just talk about them or have them on a poster by your desk. You have to actually live those things out. So yeah, Thanks for sharing those. Yeah,

Patty: 11:51

and I mean, that's how I, that's how I promote it within my organization. That other people can look to me and say, Oh, well Patty must. Be doing something right., Joanne knows this, we've done workshops in our organization about how to have affected one-on-one meetings and things like that. that's the, the number one thing that I think is really important is to just, if you want people to do something, then you, you'd be sure that you're doing it. I wanna

JoAnn: 12:15

ask a quick question because it, this is, this is a great timing of this question because I was just speaking with a leader today who knows, who says I need to build better relationships with my employees, but I just don't have time. Mm-hmm. if you could give them just a word of advice or a. A way to work around them, because that's a, that's a barrier for this person. They think it's really real, their their barrier. So what advice would you have of someone who would say, I just don't have time to build those kinds of relationships?

Patty: 12:49

So I yeah, it takes time. For sure. Like and I can give you a couple of examples, which I will. But what I would say ultimately is that You almost don't have an option for one. And I would, I mean, just practically an answer to that question is I would tell them to write down what they're doing every day. and see what things that they shouldn't be doing because they, they could delegate it to somebody else. To make time to be a manager. Being a manager is, I always tell people this, being a manager of people is the hardest job. Second two, if you're a parent, second to being a parent. And so it's important. you have the responsibility of other people. Um, Jobs and their livelihoods and their, whether they're happy or not, the number one reason people leave their jobs is because of their manager. The number one reason people stay in their jobs is because of their manager. And so, I, my argument to that person was the would be you don't have the time not to. it's so critical. And if you wanna spend a lot of time hiring, recruiting, interviewing, training all that stuff, great. If you'd rather not do all that stuff and make your people happy, then make some time to get to know them. That's probably not what a person wants to hear, but I think it's, it's just absolutely critical. And a lot of people, I've heard people in my organization say what? Like, I'm, I'm supposed to do that. Like I'm supposed to have one on ones with my, I didn't realize that was part of my job. And so I think I. Floors me when I hear people say that, that they didn't think that part of their job as a manager of people had to do with talking to their people. But that's so common that, and it's common I think because people often get promoted into management positions that maybe don't want to be managers of. and that's often the only way they see to get promoted. And that's, that's kind of a organizational structure issue, so and career development kind of thing that, that organizations need to look into. So, but that would be my answer to that person. You want me to talk to them? Jo? Joan Yeah.

JoAnn: 15:16

I'll give you their number.

Debby: 15:17

Patty can coach them. Yeah. I think this is great advice too. A lot of times I'll, when I'm talking to leaders, they'll say, Where do I start? And the relationship piece is really a great starting point. You know, whether they're new to leadership or they got a new team or you know, the place you start is building those relationships. And I feel like Patty, you're so intentional, and to me, you know, if you take five minutes to think about, I just talked to this person, what did I learn about them in that conversation? Right? Just be intentional about. Your takeaways about people and then that accumulates, and then pretty soon you build a relationship and you know something more about that person than you realize.

Patty: 15:56

Right? Right. It's, And it, and you, you have to listen more than you talk. I remember I went to the Center for Creative Leadership and for a course there, and I know all of you are familiar with that place. I love, I love the Center for Creative Leadership there was a person in there that said that his manager told him one time that he just talks nonstop. And he used the term, and he might have gotten this from his coach at the Center for Creative Leadership, but he used the term, Wait, you've probably heard of this, but it's basically, you think, why am I talking, So the, the acronym weight. If you can't answer that, then maybe you should stop and listen. And I just think listening is so important. And it's so interesting because a lot of times I have one direct report that collects little hips. Whenever I see a hippo. Think of her and and think, you know, I'll get that for her. And it's so interesting because people are like, you remember those things about other people and I think. Yes. You know, like I pay attention to things that they say or things that they have on their desks if it's in the office or you know, just those kinds of things. I have friendships and that's kind of looked down on sometimes, but I, I've honestly have friendships with all of my direct reports

Debby: 17:18

Patty, in your role, and, and not just in your role, but also I think your experiences and other hats that you wear, you've had the opportunity to really see lots of different types of leaders. Can you give us your perspective on how those different types of leaders contribute or maybe don't contribute to developing healthy relationships and maybe even some insights from, from your role. Of how you support those different types of leaders.

Patty: 17:45

Mm-hmm. The, the how to support those different types of leaders is, is hard, but we'll get there. It's easy to say that how do they contribute or not contribute to healthy relationships? Not contribute. It's easy to think, Oh, they just do the opposite of everything that we just talked about. They don't have one-on-ones. They don't get to know their people personally. They don't have conversations. They don't think of their job as a manager as or as a coach of, or as a leader of. People, they don't think of that job as being anything to actually do with the people. And so it's kind of easy to think, Oh, it's just the opposite. But I think the thing that I would, I'd go back to the word trust, and I think the thing that I would say, Is the biggest problem or the biggest way that people would contribute, not contribute to healthy relationships, is by betraying trust. And not even just by betraying trust one time, but by a consistent pattern of betraying trust. And so that happens a lot. I've seen that, and it, it takes time to build trust. it can take months to build trust and it can take 30 seconds to betray and destroy it. So I think that that is the number one. If I had to say, if I had to narrow it down to one thing, I would say it's betraying trust. And they can do it by lots of different ways, and some of it is the opposite of what we just were talking about, but but I think it's you, you just gotta be careful about. About that and understand, again, go back to that motivation of what motivates people. And if, if you feel like something, a decision you're going to make as a leader is going to have the opposite effect on that person, at least be willing to have a conversation with them about it and understand and have compassion and empathy. And so I would, I would say that, And how would I support those types of leaders? I think, again, going back to modeling behavior and being willing to talk about it, being willing to have and facilitate workshops around it. Just, just developing a culture that supports relationships and coaching, I think is, is how I support that.

Debby: 20:00

Yeah, I love that. It's really. When your whole culture is a coaching culture to not kind of get into it, right? But when you're, when you're one of the newbies to the, the coach, your culture is anti, not anti coaching, but maybe just not coaching, right? Mm-hmm. it can be easy to, to fall into that trap where you're like, well, no one else is doing it. Or, you know, that type of a thing. So,

Patty: 20:22

yeah. Yep. And the trust thing is so important because some of the things you, you have to look around your organization to see what is it. Some of the things are sort of hidden and you don't realize that they, they're actually creating a culture of that doesn't support coaching, or doesn't support or isn't a trusting culture. So for example, if, if your leadership has meetings behind closed doors and nobody else in the organization ever hears anything about it, Then that's creating a culture where people don't trust what's happening. It's things like that. So you don't, it's not always about the direct relationship or the direct one on one relationship that can destroy trust. It's also organizational as well. So I think it's kind of looking at that too. Nice.

JoAnn: 21:13

Some great wisdom there. Patty Patty, I think it's fair to say that you kind of started a grassroot effort of bringing coaching into your department and to the, into the environment. And I've of, I'm often asked by people who are aspiring to bring a coaching culture to their organization and change the environment. What is it? Just one piece of advice, what would you tell someone who's aspiring to bring coaching to their workplace? What would be one thing you would suggest that they do? Or, or where to

Patty: 21:51

start? Where to start? And the most important thing to do is to get their senior leadership on board. That's the most important thing is getting the, the senior leader and not just the person at the top, but the people at the top on board. And then go from there. That sort of sounds like a top down approach and it maybe it is, but it's, it's so important because without that sponsorship, then you're, you're never gonna succeed. You'll never, you'll never be able to get it going. So for me, It was easy and I had just, I just got certified as a coach when this happened. I had just gone went from hr, I was in HR at UVA for 12 years before I went over to finance and I had just come over to finance and we were developing a manager development program for mid-level managers,. Pretty much anybody that was a manager in our organization and we had 60 managers at the time for 150 people. And that, that's a problem in and of itself. But, but we had a manager development program and one aspect, or we were developing this program and my job as the training and development director was to to develop that program. My manager at the time, and this was. Sanctioned by our, our vp. We wanted their, they suggested this actually that there'd be coaching as part of this manager development program. I went from immediately being certified to probably within six months being. Coaching 20 people at a time, within my organization. So I was an internal coach and I got a lot of hours of coaching and a lot of experience really quickly. I learned some things not to do and things to do and but the, the great thing is, is that I developed relationships with every single one of those managers. For me, Bringing it to my organization was easy and, but it is, it is a matter of getting your, your top leaders on board first. But to continue it is not necessarily easy because we're still doing this. Um, Part of it is pandemic related. Part of it is project related, but. Things kind of stalled out. Over the past couple of years, we, we implemented a huge project, so we haven't really kept going with some of the work that we were doing as in manager development, but we're kind of getting back to that. Now is I think, kind of the hard part, So.

Kevin: 24:23

I know as we think about that, you mentioned the, the pandemic, and it kinda leads into a question that I was curious about is establishing relationships when we're face to face is one thing, but what advice would you have for someone on establishing relationships that support coaching in a virtual world? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. What would you say to them?

Patty: 24:42

I would say, That the most important thing to do is to be engaged and present. And it's so easy on Zoom to put yourself off video and start doing other things. I would say be pretend like you're not on Zoom, pretend that the person is sitting across from you and they can see everything you're doing. Stay on video. Now I'm not saying that if you're in a meeting, That you're, or like a webinar or something where you're not having to be super engaged, that you always have to be on video. But when you're having your one-on-one discussions and you're trying to develop relationships with people whether you're their coach or you're their manager then yeah, pretend, pretend you're sitting across from them in a room and be fully, fully engaged. Don't Do other things. Check your Instagram, You know, anything that you wouldn't do if they were sitting across from you, don't do on Zoom. And I, I don't think that's that hard. And so that would be my number one advice. It's hard to the other thing I would say it is that make sure you're staying connected. So, and this is one thing that I've struggled with actually, is it's easy for everybody to be off in their, homes doing work and everybody's doing really good work and, you know, everybody's being super productive cuz you're seeing the results of their work. So there's not that question, there's not a lack of trust that people are not working, but it's easy to just say, Oh, you know, I, I won't have my one-on-ones. And I've struggled with that even so It's, it's critical, especially when you're not in the office together and you don't have that time where you might run into them or walk by their desk and have a chat. It's critical to schedule time and stick to it.

Kevin: 26:34

You can be present even when you're in a virtual environment that yeah, you can be present and practicing that as if you were with the person and being re being respectful. For me, are you being res a respectful listener and being present when that person's on Zoom, when you are their leader, their coach, and that you're giving them the attention that they deserve, really deserve to.

Patty: 26:56

Yeah. In fact, one of the things that we, I think need to talk about within our organization is kind of the rules of engagement. Again, we need to revisit them because we have training classes and everybody's off Zoom, I mean on zoom, but off camera. And it's really hard as you all know. As a facilitator to be speaking into the black hole of your, of your computer with everybody off video. And you don't know if they're listening, if they're engaged, if they're doing something else, if they're not even in the room until you do a breakout room and then they don't go to the breakout room and then you know that they're or you in the session and they're still there. Then you know that they've checked out a long time ago. I think it's kind of critical to revisit as leaders in an organization those kind of rules of engagement and set the example. If you're not gonna be on video for meetings, then they're not gonna be on video for meetings. I think that's important. I will say too, though, that one of the positive things has been Debbie and Joanne, you, you'll know this from, from our work with with Michelle's group. Lots of times before the pandemic, we'd have coaching meetings over the phone and after we all started using Zoom regularly, I, I never do just a conference call anymore. That has been a really big benefit actually to being able to coach. People and, and see them. So I think that's actually been a, a great change. Yeah, I

Debby: 28:32

think it can be easy too, to use the virtual world as an excuse. And I mean, I've had leaders tell me that they've given feedback or you know, can try to communicate with people over email or slack or text and. Yeah, like you gave constructive feedback to someone over a Slack message, like how did that go? And then they're surprised when it doesn't work out so great. Yes, right. You know, so sometimes we can use it as an excuse if everyone's busy or I have time, so I'm just gonna send an email versus. Setting up, you know, a virtual call and actually having some engagement and be

Patty: 29:07

present with the person. Yeah, I mean, it takes almost the same amount of time, especially with, it's not always zoom you if you have teams and do a quick teams call or whatever you just really have to use the technology as you would if you were in the office. It, it replaces it, but, so getting on a quick teams chat, replaces the walk down the. Going into their office. So, Yeah. It doesn't always have to be that, but I think you're right. You know, like, especially if it's some sort of critical conversation, you should be it's probably more an excuse because they don't wanna have that conversation in the first place. Right. Yeah. Ha.

JoAnn: 29:42

Yeah.

Debby: 29:45

Patty, we have loved having you on, but, and before we go, we have three questions that we'd like to ask all of our guests. We'd love to hear your answers to these. The first one is, what is a book that you think a leader coach should read?

Patty: 29:58

Okay. I actually have two. So the first one is The Coaching Habit by Michael Bunge, Stainer, I think that's how you say his name. Stainer, S t a i n e r, is his last name. And that one is really great because it's just a really good, useful book for, especially for new manager coaches or leader coaches who don't know where to start. It outlines this. I think there's six questions to ask people when you're, when you're in a coaching session with them. It's just great and you don't always have to ask all six questions, but it just gives you some really good ways of kind of getting a conversation going and getting a person talking. That's one book and that's the kind of the first book I thought of, but then the real book, when I started thinking about my question and my word. Relationships. The book that came to my mind, and I have it sitting right here, is Radical Candor by Kim Scott. And. I reread a whole portion. I've read it a while back, but then I started rereading it recently, and then today I reread a huge part of it just because I thought, Oh, that's my, that's a book that I wanna suggest to people. But the reason I thought of that book when it, came to my word relationships, is that she says there's two dimensions to radical candor. And her subtitle is, Be a kick ass boss without losing your humanity. So I just love that. But she talks about the two dimensions to radical candor, which is caring personally. So care personally and challenge directly. I really focus on that care personally, part when it comes to developing relationships. And the part about challenging directly is that you can challenge directly, give critical feedback to people without being. At the same time maintaining dignity and respect both for yourself and that other person, and which maintains the relationship. I just love that aspect of her book, that it has those two dimensions. It's pretty simple to think about it that way. And she, she gives lots of advice in there about some of the things we've talked about. How to develop trusting relationships giving people autonomy. And actually there is one quote that I wanted to share. It's, it's quick, but she says, If you can build a trusting relationship with people so that they feel free at work, then they're much more likely to do the best work of their lives. Quote unquote, getting it out of them, you're creating the conditions for them to bring it out of themselves. And I think that's like the, When I read that, I was like, That's coaching. I love that book. I would say Radical Candor by Kim Scott is a book that is a must read.

Debby: 32:40

Awesome. Well, the fact that you keep going back to and rereading it says a lot about Yeah. The book, right? Yep. So our next question is, what is a question that you've been asked that just gave you pause, it made you think a little deeper, maybe a little differently about something?

Patty: 32:58

I think it goes back to that and Joanne, you mentioned it early on people will ask how do you kind of maintain the barrier of. Boss, I hate that word, but manager or whatever your organization calls them. And person. That's your direct report. How do you have the relationship where you care personally? But at the same time, maintain. A professional distance, if you will. And I think that's a question that gives me pause because I always think I don't do that and should I be doing that I don't mean that I'm in their business all the time or ask questions that are inappropriate or anything like that, but I, I mentioned this already. I'm friends with them. We socialize, we know each other's families. And I. Don't think I could change that even if I wanted to. That's a question that gives me pause because I always think, Hmm, I wonder if I shouldn't be doing this. I, it's never given me a problem so far, but but I also have a great team. I rarely have to give any sort of critical feedback. But I can see where that might be an issue. So that gives me. Okay,

Debby: 34:13

great. Questions that make us do a little check on ourselves sometimes, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So the last one that we like to ask is, what is your word? All

JoAnn: 34:21

coaching.

Patty: 34:22

Yeah. So at first I was thinking, Well, it's relationships. What's the word I pick? But the real word for me is trust. Without that then you, you're not gonna have the relationship. So trust is the, That's

JoAnn: 34:39

a great word, and something we should all be working on. Mm-hmm. Patty, thank you so much and thank you Debbie and Kevin. Thank you. It's been a pleasure having Patty on today and working with my two colleagues. Mm-hmm. And we wanna thank our audience as well for listening in. And a little few reminders is check out more of our podcast on the word on coaching and connect with us if you can on Facebook. We're called coaches three. And don't forget, we've said this for a few weeks now. Our book finally got published. We're excited about it. So go out and buy a copy for yourself and for a few friends. So until next time, that's the word I'm coaching.

The Word on Coaching

Season 5 Episode 6: The Word on Coaching - Relationships

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