Season 6 Episode 6: The Word on Coaching - Awakening

We invite you to listen in on this episode as we discuss the word Awakening. 

Our guest John Broschak shares his personal journey in being a leader and becoming a coach.  

John is a seasoned Energy Industry Senior Leader having served as a Fortune 500 Executive, Nuclear Submarine Officer, Professional Engineer, Project Management Professional, and Senior Nuclear Reactor Operator, among my many roles, and known for his desire and ability to take on the toughest and most challenging assignments and excel!   

He has a wide variety of experience that positions him to provide a broad base to support the development of others. 

John shares some real-world tips and tools to become an effective leader-coach. 

Contact Information 

https://www.linkedin.com/mwlite/profile/in/john-p-broschak-mba-pe-b6769a29 
John's  Profile 

linkedin.com/in/john-p-broschak-mba-pe-b6769a29 

Website 

energyleadershipadvisors.com  

 
Book Recommendation

From Strength to Strength: Finding Success, Happiness, and Deep Purpose in the Second Half of Life: Brooks, Arthur C.: 9780593191484: Amazon.com: Books 

 Other Resources

(21) The Power of Incisive Questions | LinkedIn

Check out our best-selling book The Word on Coaching.  Buy a copy for yourself and copies to share with others. It is a great resource for one-on-one and group discussions.

Amazon.com: The Word on Coaching: 9781737643807: Neely, Debby, Auger, Joann, Fuselier, Kevin: Books

Also, please check out our  quick guide about powerful questions: "Embrace the Power of Questions!"   A Quick Reference Guide to Getting the Answers You Need.  

Transcript

JoAnn 0:06

Hello everyone. This is Joanne and welcome to the Word On Coaching Podcast, and I'm here with my two colleagues, Kevin and Debbie. Hi everybody. Good evening. And we call ourselves coaches three. We're three friends with years of leadership and coaching experience who like to share our passion with others. Our podcasts are designed primarily for leaders, whether you have a formal title or not, and we know there's a lot of you out there doing some leading and coaching without that title, we focused on one word that relates to leadership and coaching. We know that leadership is hard. We are here to give them tips, information, hopefully a fresh perspective sometimes, but always with a lot of support. So with that, we're gonna get started today. And I'd like to welcome our guest tonight, who I've gotten to know, I guess over the last six, seven months. I met. John through a coaching program that he's part of. And one of the things that impressed me immediately about John is he makes you feel very comfortable right off the bat. And I think as a coach, you know, those are the things we look at, right? Is like how comfortable can you make somebody feel where they're willing to talk to you? And that's pretty noticeable, John. The other thing about John, he has a varied experience, in all kind of leadership positions. And John, I have to say when I looked at your bio and your resume, I'm like, wow, you have been a busy guy and I'm not gonna go with the whole thing cuz I wanna give John opportunity to introduce himself. But I think a couple things that is, that at least impressed me. He was a nuclear submarine officer. Now I'm wonder how coaching fit in there, but I'm, pretty sure there was some coaching that went on. he has served as vice president in, in a number of organizations. One of the things that John's very good is projects and project management. And I think the second thing that really that I took notice of with John is that he likes to share his knowledge. You know, someone is, That has a background like John, who has a lot of experiences and people rely on him for his knowledge, can't have that tendency to hold onto that knowledge. It's a power thing. John is not that person. He's very willing to share with you what knowledge he has, and. The second part of that, not only is he willing to share that knowledge, he's willing to take in knowledge too. He's a learner, and we all know as a coach, we, we need to be a learner. So, John, welcome. We're excited. Tell us a little bit more about yourself and we'll get started with this

John 3:04

interview. Well, hi Joanne., I am just humbled by the introduction. Thank you so much. I don't know that I deserve your high praise, but so I'm just John Brok. I've always just tried to be somebody that can help groups of individuals get stuff done and accomplish goals. I was fortunate in my career you know, to start out in the military and you get a lot of leadership experience very early on operating nuclear reactors with. Teenagers, literally. And so you, you learn to, you know, what, what actually works in leadership outside of what you might be taught you know, in books academically what works and what doesn't work. And then for me it's, it's been a lifelong journey. Trying to be the most effective leader that I can. So I was fortunate to have an engineering background. I did leverage that into project management and spent a lot of time operating power plants, mostly nuclear power plants, but power plants when I got out of the Navy. And then had the, really the joyful experience of helping to run a mid-cap corporation with the rest of the, the senior leadership team using that MBA that we all know we need to get and. And then it took probably 10 years before I started to really put a lot of that, that, that to good use. But I've been fortunate just been fortunate. But I, I definitely worked for large companies and you know, about a year ago that that road, that path was, was coming to an end and it was time to move on cuz I'm, I'm young at heart. My hair doesn't say I'm young, but I'm young at heart and you know, what's next? And, and that's, that was a tough question for me to answer. And I think we'll get into that a little bit today, but I, I was not ready to be done. And so I've pivoted and we'll see how I do in this next chapter. That's exciting.

JoAnn 4:46

It's very exciting. You know, one of the word that we're going to be talking about today to me is so fitting and I, I wanna thank my colleague. Debbie, she actually spoke the word I said. That's the word. the word that we are talking about today is awakening. And the reason I think it's so fitting for John is, is because he's so transparent and and forthright about what he's thinking, what he's seeing in himself. You know we talk about emotional intelligence. John is emotionally intelligent. He knows what he does well. He knows the things he needs to work on. And during the program that he's been going through coaching program, these may not be the exact words, but this is what I took away. when we were doing some debrief we were asking the question, you know, so what's, what's been an aha? And what's. What is, what's, you know, sticking out to you. And he had aha. An awakening that shifted his view of what, what we refer to peer coaching. Real coaching is from what he thought coaching was. And he was very open about that. And he, and excited too. He's like, it's, this has been a great awakening for me and, and has adjusted his path. So we chose the word awakening. Because the shift that John made that was so noticeable and, and not that he gave up on what he already knew, but he just made that shift and it wouldn't have happened had he not. Opened his mind and his belief system and what he knows to what, you know, all the things that he's learned along the path, he, that awakening would not have happened if he hadn't been willing to open himself up to it. So that's our work today.

Kevin 6:31

John, tell us a little more about what awakening means to

John 6:34

you. Well, thank you Kevin. I, picked up this poem early in my career, my leadership journey. So I'm, just gonna read the passage to you. It's from TS Elliot and, and it goes we shall not cease from exploration and the end of all of our exploring will be to avoid. To arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. And that has happened to me several times in my life where things transpire and I was in a place and I went very, very far away from that place and came back to the same place and saw it differently. And so to me, that's the essence of awakening is, is to actually be back in the same relationship, the same situation, but see, see it differently. See different dimensions of it. See it. For the first time. And that's been a bit of my journey here with with my coaching training is what I thought was coaching was not you know, we, we train leaders to be coaches and a lot of the same skills are used in coaching, particularly active listening. But you know, I definitely think it's, it's on steroids The, the, the really the approach of, of what a coach is meant to do versus a consultant or a mentor or, or you know, other labels we put on some of these things. It's, it's been for me to see it again for the first time and see it in a, an entirely different light.

Kevin 7:56

When you were saying that, John, I was thinking about awakening I was thinking about in the context of being in a place where I can truly pay attention My wife and I, we have four children. And in many of those years we were just kind of going from thing to thing, to thing to thing. And then once we got into places where we got a little more mature ourselves, we started to really be awakened to the fact that these children are not going to be with us forever. And so we started paying more attention, you know, we were paying more attention to them. And so it's a very interesting concept to be

John 8:33

awakened. Yes. To see the same thing, but to see it in a different way. It's, it's a form of, of awareness but really a true awakening. Yeah. So tell us a little more

Kevin 8:46

about your coaching journey. What drew

John 8:48

you to coaching? An evolution of my leadership philosophy. And, and I distinguish that from style cuz I think there's a, a variety of styles, and this is what I used to teach my, my staff or my mentees you know, style. There's situational leadership, there's different styles you can use, but your philosophy is the bedrock. And, and my bedrock was really servant leadership. I think by this point it's a little bit overused, quite honestly. And so I, I tend not to just. Throw that term out there cuz it means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. But the essence is you lead in a way that makes people wanna follow you. And to do that you have to exhibit things like humility. You have to listen to them, you have to appreciate them. You have to, I, you know, as a bedrock, have integrity. And so I you know, Joanne talks about my transparency. Well, I'm transparent to a fault in that I probably share too much and. Some people don't like when you share. So much. So I've, I've learned that over time, you know, even what in some contexts may be a strength. You have to, you have to make sure it's being used appropriately and that you can't be fully transparent in all situations. But so co coming out of that and as I got a little bit later on in my corporate career, it was well, Well, you know, part of my job is to develop the next generation of leaders. And, and h how you're gonna do that is by working with them and sharing your experiences. And, you know, they're coming across things for the first time in their career that I probably experienced 2, 3, 4 times. I started just having a lot of conversation. A lot of one-on-ones a lot of small group you know, in the context of, of leadership and mentoring to just. Learn about people to at, at that time share my experiences of, you know, when I came to that decision or that crossroads, here's how I thought about it. Here's how I, I worked my way through it. Here's the decision I made. Here's how it worked out, or here's how it worked out. It didn't work out. And that transparency and that servant leadership I, I found that I was really fascinated by people. And, that people have some, so much more of a dimension to them than the transactional employment relationship. Where I'm your boss, you do what I tell you to do. Tell me when you're done. I'll tell you whether I liked it or not, and, and that if you just took your ti took the time to open up. To let people share what's going on in their whole world because cuz we're all complete human beings in that we don't just come to work. We've got families and we've got significant others, and we've got children and we've got parents and you know, we have a life. A whole life that your employment situation may not always allow you to either bring your full self to work or may not always, you know, you may not want to. And by opening myself up to just learning about people, And, and being fascinated about learning. Cuz I learned so much from people that I never thought I would learn things from. And, I found over time that I've been fortunate to do a fair amount of travel and, and things in my career that I always seem to have an intersection. With people. And that was a conversation starter. And, and sometimes we'd spend the first 15 minutes of the, the mentoring coaching session just talking about life and, you know what someone was going through at this point in their life. And, and that evolved into, you know, as, as I move on I want to be the most effective coach that I can. And it's really comes from a place of giving back. Of, of taking the graces that I've been given and, and sharing them so that I can help others, maybe not make the same mistakes I made maybe learn something sooner than I did. But really just giving back because I, I just feel so fortunate of the life I've been able to live. Maybe I can help others in, in their journey through through this, this Interesting experience we call life. And sometimes that's an employment context and others it's just, you know, navigating the various situations that we find ourselves in. So that's really what's what brought me there. I think the last 10 years, particularly of my, my corporate career, I spent more time doing what I thought at the time was coaching and mentoring and. Began to really, like, it started to get feedback that I was good at it. People started to seek me out for it. And so for me it was a real natural transition to see, well, where can I take that maybe skillset that positive set of experience I had and transition to, to be a real coach. And of course then I had to learn what being a real coach means.

Debby 13:12

Yeah. Well, John, I, it is funny when you're talking, awakening sounds like the perfect word for you as you continue to unfold your, your story here. And I have to commend you because I think to have an awakening, you have to be open and willing for that to happen. And maybe even a little humble that, oh, maybe, I don't know, everything kind of, you know, that we hear from leaders sometimes. And be willing to accept that and not make assumptions. So I wanna commend you for that, but I'd love to hear more about your awakening and that moment when the light bulb went off. Was that a specific experience? Was it gradual? What, what was the, the moment that it was the aha for you that maybe you weren't coaching like you thought you were?

John 13:57

Well, Joanne mentioned earlier on, I, I've been in some training programs to, move closer to official certification as a coach. And so I had a great teacher in Joanne and she asked powerful questions and spent a lot of time in, in our sessions together on the front end of establishing a foundation of really understanding the true intent behind coaching and, certainly. You know, a lot of it came in one ear went out the other about you gotta be a good listener. Well, of course everybody has to be a good listener. But I think where the, the light bulb went on was recognizing I had a tendency to, overshare and thinking I was coming from a good place, when in fact what I was doing was giving the other person. My version of the answers. And I tend to be a little bit impatient when someone's, you know, not focusing and, not really getting to the point cuz you know, literally in my head I'm going, oh my gosh, these are the next three things you need to do. And, and like, why is it taking you so long to see that? And, and, and learning that I, I needed to hold myself back because the power in somebody figuring that out for themselves is priceless. And, and what someone may tell you is the right thing to do that's not gonna be nearly as beneficial and powerful as if you can help guide them to get to those answers. And maybe they'll get to different answers than I had. That may be even better for them because they're the only ones that know everything about their life, everything about their situation. And so for me that that light bulb that came on was like, Hey, shut up. Right. Stop, stop telling everybody how, how wonderful you are through sharing of your experiences and, and learn to ask better questions and, and learn to ask better questions that guide the individual to really self-examine, to find the answers that are within. Certainly there's some skillsets that go along with that, with asking really good open-ended questions, et cetera, et cetera. But stop jumping in and, and really hold yourself back to, to let them. Explore. Now at the same time I still reserve it. Right. Joanna and I talk about this, that like, there, there are times when it is beneficial to offer some, some advice, but that needs to be at the permission of the person you're speaking with. It needs to be at an appropriate time. So there's a little bit of art form here of when, when is that appropriate time, if ever. And, and it, it should definitely be secondary to the coach. And, you know, another one was you always show up as a coach. So if you always show up as a coach or, and start the conversations as a coach, that means you shut up. You, you ask, you know, some good open-ended questions. You let the person explore for themselves. You try to help them focus and narrow them down into what's the, the pressing issue we wanna get out of today's discussion. And then hopefully that converts into an action plan that they can make some progress on it. It starts there. And so the combination of recognizing my tendency to jump in with answers or suggestions realizing that even though I prided myself on being a good active listener, that I could further leverage that by listening and then asking better open-ended questions. To allow that person to, to arrive at, at the, the, the right pathway or you know, direction going forward that they own that, that they can't come back and say, Hey, well, you told me to do this and it didn't work out. That, you know, that it, it was what was the best answer for them based on their exploration, their soul searching, their conclusion about the particulars in their situation. That's

JoAnn 17:29

great. You know we talk a lot as a team about being a leader, coach, and, one of the things we think happen to things that they make good a leader, coach is the best type of leadership and But we also know that we get in our own way. And you've spoken to that a little bit, so if you could just add to that conversation a little bit of what still gets in your way. And then to help out those leader coaches out there who are striving to become a better leader coach, what tips do you have for them to help them along their journey?

John 18:04

Patience is a virtue, and sometimes you just really have to be patient and let the conversation evolve in the direction that the, that the person you're, you're coaching. Once. At times you have to, you know, again, through using good targeted, open-ended questioning is kind of reign them back in a little bit because without focus and, and some of the folks that I've, I've practiced with for sure, they're, they're just all over the map, right? And, and they, they just know they're not. Where they want to be and things are not happening the way they want it is to try to really help calm them down so they can focus and say, okay, what is the most pressing thing right now? What, you know, what, what could I actually get help from out of the coaching conversation? So that takes patience. It, it takes you know, being that active listener in, in a way that maybe. For me goes against my, my natural tendency is to, we gotta get some stuff done here. Like we, we've, we've got, we've got 38 minutes left. Let's, let's go. I mean, we've, we've gotta, we've gotta move and, and be willing to accept that it's not about me. And, and even though in inside of me, I, I never thought I was making it about me. I was. I was making it about me. And, and be willing to be selfless in, in that coaching experience that, that they, you're, you're a guide, you're there to create a safe space. You're there to let someone share. And through that sharing and through, again, those powerful questions that you can ask them is to get them to really pause and, and think Yeah. Wow. Wow. No one's ever asked me that before. I've never thought of that before. And wow, that, that really changes how I'm thinking about this. And not, not only get them in a better place where they feel more stable, more, more focused. they know what to do, but they've figured out what they need to do. And you know, you were, you were there to, to help guide them, but it, it wasn't you. Giving answers, but you know, it starts with that, that patience. And I, I would say that humility and, and selflessness, that, that allows you to let the conversation evolve. Maybe not on your, your terms or on your pace, but that and one that's gonna be most beneficial to the person that you're coaching. Yeah, and I'll

Debby 20:19

just add to the, the patient's part is sometimes the magic doesn't happen during the coaching conversation. Sometimes it happens after. The coaching conversation. So I, like I can hear my personality type is I have to think about things and process things and let it sit with it. And so I can't tell you how many times I've walked away from a coaching conversation and thought, wow, that I'm not sure that went anywhere with that person. And then they come back a week later and it did, like they had all these ahas and they, they did all these action items. And so sometimes it's the patience of letting the coaching work.

JoAnn 20:58

Yeah.

Kevin 21:00

being patient is something that we have to learn. I think about that whole conversation we would have about that in that inner voice, trying to quiet my own mind and just really, truly listen and not solve problems. John, just talking with you this, see me, sounds like you have a vast amount of experience and I'm sure through the course of your leadership experience, you. You've picked up lots of knowledge and skills and added them to your toolbox. So what are a couple of things that you would, encourage people to add to their toolbox to become a better

John 21:32

leader? Coach? Mastering open-ended questions. I, I referenced that earlier. I thought I knew what that was, but until I was challenged I found that my brain was always for formulating things in yes, no questions. And so stopping myself and saying, no, how would you ask that in a way that does not allow someone to just say yes or no or give a very short answer? And it, it's been surprisingly difficult. I'll be honest, I don't even think I ever told Joanne that, but just I, I, the question I would come up with would. Be easily answered with a yes or no. So I didn't know that about myself even though I certainly know what an open-end question is. But to be put on the spot, cuz you know, when you're coaching you do get in a tendency of while you're, while you're actively listening, you are thinking somewhat about, well, what's the next A question I'm going to ask. And so balancing that out to make sure that you, you read that question in your mind and answer it at least to, you know, do the litmus test of. did you just formulate a Yes, no question. So there's a little bit of gymnastics there that goes on to continue actively listening. While you're doing that review on, on is it truly an open-ended question? I, I think everyone needs some go-to questions. And I picked up a few in my training cuz there are times where either you don't know how to. Regain the guardrails on the conversation, or you reach a point where you know that seven seconds of silence creeps in and it starts to get awkward. You know, and one I picked up is I, I've been wondering you know, where you might wanna go with this. one that I found in my practice that has been very helpful is what's. What's the ideal outcome for you? And, and I've been very surprised with people's reaction to that question that I thought people would've thought through in advance. They're like, wow, I never thought about what the ideal outcome might, might be. And then that seems to open up a lot with them. So some go-to questions. You know, I, I went and did a search of, you know, powerful coaching questions and there's plenty of books out there and, and I think running through the list is helpful, but I think if you have a couple in your hip pocket so that if you get stuck that you have some go-tos that will really help you finding that, that artful shift to when to insert yourself. And again, I add the caveat, if at all wh where it, it would be helpful to make sure you have permission to do that to make sure that you're not making it about yourself. and really asking yourself the question, well, why, why am I inserting myself at this point in the conversation? And, and make sure you've got a pretty darn good answer for, for that. But finding where, You know, if it exists, if it would truly be beneficial is, is where you could offer some guidance or advice to move things along or maybe help the individual. Cuz I, I, I do find that some that are, a little bit earlier in their journey. They truly don't know the answer. you could have them explore all you want. And maybe just get, providing a couple of suggestions of, have you, have you thought about

24:30

this?

John 24:30

Or, you know, here's something I've seen work for someone else before. May, may give them the catalyst to be able, but you gotta do that at the right time and make sure you don't take over control of the conversation. And then interestingly enough just doing a good recap, doing a recap that the, the coach e or the person you're coaching owns the recap. Cuz again, it was a tendency of mine to say, okay, here's what we talked about today and you agreed to do these three things and you're gonna do'em by next week. And, and again, it's another form of, of making it more about. Me and my list of things that you're gonna do, but I wanna hear it in their own words. I want them to own those words. I want them to state that this is what I feel I can do and I'm committed to doing. And that's been been a tool that I've added, is to catch myself at the back end of a session and and make sure that I allow the coachee to, to own the recap.

Kevin 25:23

great tips. Great tools to add to that toolkit as you were talking about, getting away from asking yes or no questions. There's a concept that I came across recently. It's called Incisive. Questions, and I wanted to give the person credit for it. So check the show notes for, for who to go to on this. But it's questions that cannot be answered with a yes or no question. the concept behind incisive questions is getting to people's barriers, like what's limiting people. And so it's a, it's a process of asking questions to help them uncover barriers. Something our listeners might wanna check out is called Incisive. Questions.

Debby 26:03

Thanks, Kev. Always like a good new resource, right? Check that out. So John, we can't let you leave today without finding out what's next for you. So, you know, we gotta hear. You're having this awakening, you're having this pivot. So kind of a two-parter. One is what's next for you? And then if there's someone out there listening that is really connecting with you and they're like, you know, I'm having an awakening like John had, or, or I feel like I'm kind of in the same place that John is in, what advice would you give that person?

John 26:37

What advice would I give them on this whole topic of awakening? I never stopped learning. Right. Never, never stopped learning. You know, we did an exercise that, you know, unfortunately we, we've got a lot of polarization in society right now, but you know, one of the assignments we got was to, to read something that you would not normally read. explore a topic that, that maybe you have very strong feelings on, but read from somebody else's view, maybe somebody you don't agree with. We were doing a lot in, in that space, in, in corporate near the end of my tenure there, where it was this humble inquiry type stuff. Like, like, how can, can you explain a little more to me about that? And so it's a process where it really like, decide you're gonna read something that may be offensive to you, but try to understand where that person is coming from. And, and I won't say it's magical but I will say it gives you a deeper appreciation for maybe a topic that you've closed your mind off to that you can start to understand a little bit better where someone, someone is coming from. Because certainly we, we, we can get into a coaching situation with someone that we really don't share some core values. But you can still be an effective coach for that person. By, Suspending maybe your, your beliefs for o o on a level and, and helping them work through whatever issue they're working on. So this, this concept of, of humble inquiry and, and being able to, to have difficult conversations with someone that you may not normally engage with. I don't know if I answered your question Debbie, but that's what I thought. Yeah, absolutely.

Debby 28:05

I think that's great. I love that. And then what's next for you, John? What,

John 28:09

what can, oh my gosh. Can you mind you back? What's the next part of your story? I, I don't really know. I, I I had to reinvent myself. And I think the topic of reinvention is, is very, very necessary. Cause I didn't have not have a straight line career in corporate. I found very much times where I either had to move sideways or backwards to move ahead. And in, in, in many cases had to reinvent myself. And certainly over the past year reinventing, almost rewiring. My brain to think differently, to take on some different challenges to to, to see if I could figure it out again. But it, I don't know where the path is gonna lead. I've been able to establish a, a coaching consulting business and had some moderate degree of success over the past year. My wife keeps reminding me that, That I'm supposed to be retired, but I don't think that's where, where I'm at. But you know, it, it really is driven by that, that desire to give back, that desire to keep learning, that desire to try new things. So I don't know where the path's gonna lead me. And, and I would say at this point I'm good with that. You know, 20 years ago I was not, like, I wanted to know what, what's the next promotion? What's the next job? Wh where am I headed? When am I, when am I gonna advance? And now I, I guess I have the luxury of, of allowing things to evolve naturally you know, as a lifelong control freak. it took me a long time to learn that I really can't control a lot. In fact, maybe I can't control much of anything other than you know, my ability to quiet my mind and, and How I respond to what happens to me. learning that I, I really can't control things and being more open to whatever comes my way. And maybe the phone will ring, maybe it won't and not feel that I have to have a five step plan that I'm gonna be here in, in two years and, and let things be more. Flow and develop more the way my higher power intended rather than me stressing over trying to control each and every aspect of it. So, that's a terrible answer because I didn't answer your question, I'm stimulated and feel like I'm still growing. And so as long as I, I, I keep finding things to occupy my time that allow me to have that kind of evolution at this point in my life. That's all I care about and wherever that path leads me I, I, I think I'll be pretty happy with that. But at the same time, I, I want to have the opportunities to give back and and to help others in their journey. Well

Debby 30:28

from one fellow control freak to another, who also likes to give back. I, I like your answer a lot.

John 30:36

Great.

JoAnn 30:38

Well, I will tell our audience, stay tuned. We will have John back in a year see where his past has taken him. Cause I'm pretty sure it's taking you to some interesting places. John, as we wrap up today, we, we always ask three questions of our guests and one, the first question we always ask is, what is a book that you think a leader coach should read?

John 31:02

I'm gonna mention a book called From Strength to Strength by Arthur Brooks, Arthur C. Brooks. It's a book about jumping onto the next curve in life. And so if you're, if you're like me and, and you're, you are reinventing yourself maybe later in your career and your. Desiring to get out of the rat race of the constant, you know, competition and climbing the ladder. it really helped me to see that it's okay to get to that point in in your career, in your life journey, that you actually jump onto a different curve and so, and you start to leverage the strengths that you have in a different way. And a lot of it's about, the opportunity to give back and, and not feel guilty that you gave in or, jumped off the treadmill kind of thing. I would definitely recommend that it was insightful for me.

JoAnn 31:52

That's great. Thanks. We will put that in the notes. What question have you been asked that. Gave you pause, made you think a little bit differently. You know, as a coach sometimes we get a, we get those questions. So what's a question that gave you

John 32:09

pause? I mentioned a little bit earlier on, but why are you inserting yourself or why are you wanting to insert yourself? I. And, and insert was meaningful to me because I didn't think of myself as inserting, but when I really reflected on it that's exactly what I was doing. I was looking for those openings so I could provide all the answers. I could, you know, tell you how it is or here's your three options. And once when I sat back and, and was challenged with that question of why are you wanting, why are you wanting to insert yourself? It was about me. I wanted to prove, you know, how much I've done and, and that's not what a good coach does. That's my belief today. And maybe I've got more work to do to be the most effective coach I can be. But that, that was the, a question that was really put me on my heels is, is why are you wanting or to insert yourself? Why are you wanting to insert yourself? And, and be honest with the answer to that. And then the last

JoAnn 33:08

question is, what is your word on coaching? I assigned awakening to you, but what word would you say is your coaching word?

John 33:18

I'm gonna pick wonder. If you have a true fascination about people and, and a curiosity and can appreciate, the. Amazing stories that people have. There, there's an element of wonder in that, that to be open to experiencing something wondrous. And,, at the end of effective coaching, I think there is. A wondrous outcome that can happen. So to me it's wonder cuz it's, it's, it's multifaceted is that it's a mindset of going into the conversations, you know to, to wonder and be open to learning about people and, and be curious. But the other is to open yourself up to the wondrous things that can happen if you are effective in, in guiding someone to a better place. I like

JoAnn 34:06

that word wonder. That's wonder. That's wonderful. Well, John, Debbie, Kevin it's been a real pleasure today. I've really enjoyed the conversation and we wanna thank our audience too for listening and remind you to check out we have more podcasts. So check us out word on Coaching podcast and connect with us on our Facebook page. It's all you gotta do is look up coaches three. And then of course our book that we're still very proud of. Take Opportunity. You can order it off of Amazon. It's called The Word On Coaching. You see the trend there, folks. So thank you for being with us today. And until next time, this was word on coaching.