Season 6 Episode 7: The Word on Coaching - Curiosity

We hope you are curious about this episode...

Please listen in on this episode as we discuss being curious with 
Susan Jordan.

Susan Jordan is a professional leadership and career coach who brings value and insight to mid-career professionals seeking to enhance their job performance and achieve their aspirations. 

Before coaching, Susan served for 20+ years as a finance executive in the sports, entertainment, venue management, and hospitality industries. 

In this episode, Susan shares insight on the impact of being curious in your coaching relationships.

Susan shares some practical tips on how to be more curious and ways to use curiosity to lead and coach more effectively.

Contact Information 

Susan’s Profile

linkedin.com/in/susanjordanmsodlmba

Website

sphereshift.com (Company)

 
Book Recommendation

Amazon.com: Questions Are the Answer: A Breakthrough Approach to Your Most Vexing Problems at Work and in Life: 9780062844767: Gregersen, Hal, Catmull, Ed: Books

Check out our best-selling book The Word on Coaching.  Buy a copy for yourself and copies to share with others. It is a great resource for one-on-one and group discussions.

Amazon.com: The Word on Coaching: 9781737643807: Neely, Debby, Auger, Joann, Fuselier, Kevin: Books

Also, please check out our  quick guide about powerful questions: "Embrace the Power of Questions!"   A Quick Reference Guide to Getting the Answers You Need.  

Transcript

JoAnn 0:00

Hello everyone. Welcome to the word on coaching. I'm Joanne, and I'm here with Kevin and Debbie. Say hello guys. Hello guys.

Kevin 0:12

Hello.

JoAnn 0:15

We are coaches three. Three friends with years of leadership and coaching experience who want to share our passion with others. Our podcasts are for leaders, whether you have a formal title or not, because we know you're out there often leading without a title. We focus on one word that relates to leadership and coaching. We know leadership is hard, so we, along with our guests, try to give you some good tips, great information, hopefully a fresh perspective, and always a lot of support. So today we're really excited to welcome Susan. Let me tell you a little bit about Susan and what I know. Susan and I have done some coaching together. At least been in the same room. Let's say that we've been in the same room and I got to know Susan. More personally because I needed her help. I was doing a, a class that, used the assessment disc and using it as a sales tool and with sales coaching. And I was quite honestly, pretty lost in the process. And I was fascinated about how to use the disc. With coaching, and Susan is an expert. She's a subject matter expert in the assessment disc. And I didn't know this, but she's a pretty darn good coach too. So she was so generous with her time and, and help helping me prepare to teach this workshop to Potential sales people. So she's gonna talk a little bit more about what she does, but Susan, thank you for joining us today and share a little bit more about yourself and

Susan 2:00

what you do. Thanks, Joanne. I really appreciate the opportunity to participate in, in this podcast, and so excited that you're, Mission is to really help leaders succeed, and that's really where I am in my coaching. I love to work with leaders and help them be successful, and especially using kind of the disk framework in terms of adaptive communication, because that's a lot of the stressors that leaders have, especially new leaders of teams and understanding, and the different behavioral styles and communication styles that people have. Ah,

JoAnn 2:41

that's, that's, that's really good. That's a great way to explain that too, Susan. So, you know, one of the things we do is we choose a word that either we assigned to you or that you assigned to yourself. And when Susan and I had our conversation chat two words and, and, and settled on this word today, which I, I think is going to be a fascinating discussion. So my word for today is curiosity. And Susan picked this word for very specific reasons. So Susan, before we jump in here, let's get a definition and in simple terms, according to you, according to Susan, what is curiosity?

Susan 3:23

The first thing that comes to mind is a sense of wonder. What's underneath the surface? What more is there? And that part of inquiry and trying to see things in a different way to me is really the definition of curiosity, according to me.

Debby 3:50

I love that. I think of that old phrase, what was that phrase from the eighties? Things that make you go, Hmm. I think of that a little bit when you're, when you were giving your definition. And you know, as coaches, we know that curiosity is really a foundational part of coaching. But before we dig further into that w word Susan, will you tell us a little bit about your coaching journey? What drew you to coaching and how does the word curiosity show up in your coaching?

Susan 4:18

Wow. Those are two big questions, so if I can divide it into two there. So what drew me into coaching is I spent 20 years in the corporate world and my role was really to train and develop financial managers. And one of the things that I noticed was that, In our organization, and similar as we promoted people into leadership positions as they were great doers, but they didn't know how to be leaders. And when they got into those positions, they. Had a lot of insecurity. They didn't know how to speak to people and they relied as most people under stress to focus on the doing and didn't know how to make that transition. I wanted to really make a difference in that because also I was tired of fixing everybody else's problems. So I went back to school and got my master's in organizational development and leadership and then, Got trained to be a coach. And what I love about my coaching is I'm able to take my business acumen, I speak the language of business. I can help leaders translate these skills into positive business outcomes and really be able to change how they interact with other people and become strategic. And strategic is being curious. Asking other people what do they think? Being part of engagement with others, it's a totally different skillset, and that's where I love to help people make that transition. And it really opens them up to possibilities.

Debby 6:00

I love that curiosity and then possibilities, right? That makes it all feel worth it of doing that, doing that exploration.

Susan 6:07

So let me tell you a little bit of a little example of how I used it in my coaching. So part of the. I do leadership coaching, but I also do career development coaching, and I help mid-career professionals that are really stuck. They wanna do something different. They're kind of, you know, burnt out, or they're just bored and they wanna pivot to something else. So as part of the initial discovery, I give them 21 questions to. To ponder and it starts out with the usual stuff. What do you like, what you don't like? Good jobs, bad jobs, but one of the things I ask is, what are your interests? What are your hobbies? What did you do when you were little? You know, let's go back. What energized? And so I'm working with a, a client that is a lawyer and is looking for a different avenue for her law and. I discovered through this that she was a classically trained musician, and it was so interesting because I never would've found that out. And we talked about how can she use that skill to amplify her brand, saying, I know how to. Be adaptable. I know how to persevere. I know how to to fail. I know how to do all these things that you do when you're trained as a classical musician and how can you know she used that to present herself as somebody who's different. And she thought, I never thought of it that way. And so it's just really exciting to go deep and this is where the curiosity, what else is beneath the surface? And as a, a leader, when I used to hire people, that was also a question I, a I always asked was, have you ever played sports? Have you ever played an instrument? You know, something that shows that you can persevere? Through hard times when you wanna quit and you know that you're able to get better because it shows that they have grit in the workplace. So, as an interview question, it's always very interesting.

Kevin 8:22

Susan, as you were speaking, I was thinking about discovery, being curious, and I was thinking about that's how we find out whether something works or doesn't work is through curiosity and questioning. And I was curious if you can share with us what are the rewards of being

Susan 8:42

curious. The first one is creativity and innovation because it's being able to look at things a different way and discover what's possible when you think of coaching, what we do as coaches is to help people uncover possibilities. If they could think of those themselves, they wouldn't need us, right? But what we do is peel back the onion to see, well, what's in there? What's the gold, what, what is really, whether it's their strengths or their values. The second thing that questions are clarifying and there's a lot of assumption. Especially in new leaders, but to ask questions can clarify and relieve stress because you have a better answer and you really know what's going on. Because if we don't know what's going on, we make up stuff in our head. Yeah, you're right.

Debby 9:42

We sure do. You, and I love to, I love how you, how you encourage leaders to flip it as well, so you're being curious about them. You know, but to encourage them to be curious about other people, like their direct reports. You know, I always tell when leaders will tell me I'm so frustrated with this person. I love to encourage that curiosity of, well, let's get curious about that person. What do you know about them? Why might they be acting this way? And that curiosity kicks in and all of a sudden, the possibilities, the potential, all of that kind of gets pulled out of that person that they're so frustrated

Susan 10:17

with. Yeah, I had a really great experience with one leader that I was working with in terms of inviting that curiosity. He had hired two people to start at the same time with the same, and they both had the same job. And so he was going to train both of them in the same way. And so I invited him, well, why don't you ask them what they need? And he did that as an experiment and he found out that the one person said, Hey, I got this. You know, I'll just gimme direction. I'll run with it. If I have any questions, I'll let you know. The other person said, I. Really need a lot of support in the beginning. I need to have, you know, one-on-ones with you. I just wanna make sure I'm on the right track and I need that extra feedback. And he was blown away because if he didn't ask those questions, I. He probably would've answered neither one of their needs because he was going with the attitude of, if I was in that job, this is what I would need. So it really was a, a great awareness for him in terms of asking. That's a

Debby 11:37

great, that's a great story. Great example. So, Susan, Joanne had mentioned early on that you are a subject matter expert in the DISC assessment. So can you tell us a little bit about how do assessments like the DISC assessment help you support people with coaching? How does that information help? And then what role does curiosity play in that

Susan 11:59

process? One of, so for those of you on the podcast, that may not be, Familiar with the DISC assessment. It is a Behavioral ST and communication style assessment. It's not a personality assessment. It's also sometimes as insights or the colors. They're all the same assessment, and what it looks at is what is your preferred behavior and communication style that's comfortable to you? And it also looks at what does it look like under stress? And by identifying other people's styles, you can learn to adapt. To their style. I think of it like a different language and it's so helpful for leaders because they're using curiosity to see, well, how do people think differently? Cuz we all go into the world thinking everybody is just like us and then we find out, oops, they're not. So. It's the platinum rule of let me talk to others in a way that they would like to be treated. And then even in that thought, it's, that's the generosity is I'm thinking more about you than me. So it's just a really wonderful tool. And then the more you're curious, and when I work with my clients especially new leaders, let's, let's talk about your people. And what their style is. Summer, slower processors, they need time. So maybe you give them tasks written ahead of time so they can prepare. They're not good on the fly, other people are, and really adapting in the way that they need to hear it. So the assessments are also kind of validating because then it's like, well, yeah, this is just who you are. Most people agree with, with what it comes out. But now here's. Also some language to let other people know how best to communicate with you, and that's equally as important as well.

Debby 14:15

Absolutely. That's great information to have about people, and I think it is important for you to remember, sometimes you have to flex your style. Mm-hmm. You can't approach everybody in, in your style. And so being curious about we're not connecting. Why, why aren't we connecting? And I tried this one thing, it, it didn't work. So let me get curious about something else. I can

Susan 14:33

try. Mm-hmm. Exactly.

JoAnn 14:36

That's some really good information, you know as. Coaches, you know, we're always trying to grow and discover. And something I've noticed about new coaches is that, you know sometimes they get in their own way. Not that I don't get in my own way. And you know, One of the things that I really, when I'm mentoring another coach are teaching the skills of coaching. I talk a lot about being curious and you know, some people push back because they're like, why aren't you really just being nosy? There's a difference, right? But also is that, you know, some people's like, well, you know what they said curiosity killed a cat. Right? So, you know, what are some things that you've noticed that get in the way of us being curious? And what tips could you share with people who get in their own way, who don't see curiosity as a, as a good skill or a way to do coaching? A

Susan 15:38

lot of new leaders that I work with are really afraid to ask questions. They're worried about what people will think of them. They're worried that. They don't know, you know, they'll be perceived as not knowing, which it's also okay to not know. But it's that really lack of confidence. More about, I'm afraid I don't wanna hurt anybody's feelings. I don't wanna make any people mad. Really more emotional about, of, of what they're reluctant to, to ask questions about. And I think it's. It's that thinking about themselves that gets in their way. So letting go of that and focusing more on the other person is a way of moving past that. That's great advice.

Debby 16:32

Yeah. Get outta your own way. Right.

Susan 16:35

One of the things that. I always say it's a secret tip for introverts who are afraid to talk about themselves. Just keep asking questions and then you don't have to talk about yourself.

Kevin 16:46

You remind me of a, a story I was reading where there was a person, they were traveling, they were flying, and they sat next to someone and they kept asking the, the person next to them. They just kept asking them questions. And asked them questions and at the end of the flight, the person turned to them and said, we had such a great conversation, you know? Yep, yep. Because it was all, it was all about them. They were just expressing how, how great the conversation was. But the person next to them had some coaching skills and they just would ask the person questions and they said some. Some people's favorite topic to talk about is themselves. Once you get'em to a place where they're comfortable and you supplying good questions and you really demonstrate curiosity. And as you were saying this one of the thing about, I think it was my wife who cautioned me, she was like, Kevin, if you're going to be curious and ask people questions, she said, you have to listen to their answers.

Susan 17:42

This is true.

Kevin 17:45

So thanks for sharing those tips, Susan.

Susan 17:48

This is, you bring up another really good point for new leaders as I'm working with People that want to advance in their career path and they're really uncomfortable with what they think is networking. You know we talk about having skip level meetings and they say, oh, they're not gonna wanna take their time. And we create the questions and I said, everybody wants to talk about themselves. If you're asking these people, You know, what, what are they interested in? What brings them energy? What got them to where they are in their career? What advice they want. Of course they're gonna wanna talk about it. When do they get that opportunity? Right? And then when they do it, they're like, wow, I got so much information. So it, you're right. You know, it really is about showing interest in other people. Yeah.

Debby 18:44

And that feels great to be on the, the end of that. Right. If you, like my boss's boss had all this interest and was listening to me and asking me questions and wanted to know more about me, that feels really good. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So some people, curiosity may be very natural for them, may just be the way, the way that they are, like you said, maybe it's just their, how they think or their preference. Other people they may have to work at, at this a little bit at, at being curious. So Susan, what are some of the, the skills that you would recommend people maybe work on that would help them be more curious? So the things that kind of compliment that curiosity.

Susan 19:23

Well, one of the things is practice and definitely challenge yourself to do that. But also if, if I go back to the, the disk framework You know, there's people oriented and there, and there's task oriented, and the people oriented are pro more curious. They're, because they're, that's what energizes them is being around other people. The styles that are more task oriented, they're the ones that probably have a little bit more difficulty in being curious in terms of asking questions. So those it's kind of. Looking beneath the surface and kind of getting out of their comfort zone. One of the ways to kind of open up the brain is to have new experiences, so maybe even curiosity in other areas of their life. Just inviting new experiences to be able to bring, bring that muscle into their work.

Debby 20:25

So, Susan, I have two questions for you. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna break'em up. I'm gonna ask you one at a time. Okay. So the, the first one is you've given us some really great information around curiosity. Some I feel like there's already some really good tips around being more curious. So if I'm a leader and I realize, okay, I, I'm liking what I'm hearing, I really wanna try this. What is either some advice or one thing that you would tell me I could do right now to start

Susan 20:50

being more curious? The next time you want to tell somebody something, reframe it into a question. Sounds so

JoAnn 21:00

simple, but so hard, Justin.

Debby 21:05

Yeah, I love that. And I think part of that is you may miss the opportunity, so even if you realize it later, Take note of that, right? The more you start noticing these opportunities, that you'll eventually start taking advantage of them.

Susan 21:18

And I think being intentional as well. So another very young leader that I was working with, wanted to be more visible in meetings. And so what he practiced was. I'm going to ask one question in every meeting. And once he started doing that, then his presence was shown and people were having conversations with him. But that was just one way of doing that. But it was very intentional and he was scared to death at first. He was afraid of, I'm going to be stupid, or, you know, whatever. But that's a way to be visible.

Kevin 22:04

Yeah. I like what you were saying. You first, you started with reframing from saying what you wanna say and phrasing it in a question and then being intentional. I was thinking about sometimes it's, it's a practice. Mm-hmm. We have to practice these things. I think you mentioned that before. So just having those two things. Sometimes we try to make things too hard or I don't know how to be curious or I don't know how to, but really slow down. Refrain. Right. And then just ask the questions. Mm-hmm. Good advice.

Debby 22:39

Pretty soon you won't have to think about it as much. Right. It'll just, it'll become habit for you.

Susan 22:43

Yeah. And it, and it really is practice because it's a different way of being in thinking, and especially for people that it's not, they're not naturally curious. So it is practice. And I think that's where leaders as they're listening to this and they're curious, no pun intended about the topic give yourself grace and just start experimenting. Yeah.

Debby 23:07

I love that. And it doesn't have to be in the workplace. You could practice at home. Yeah. I'm sure your kids would love mm-hmm. For you to ask them questions and listen to them. We're gonna be like, what happened?

Susan 23:17

I know who is, who's shown up here? Who kidnapped my mom?

Debby 23:23

So Susan, you've told us some great stuff and it sounds like you have this great coaching journey going. What's next for

Susan 23:29

you? Good questions. I'm really, you know, Working on expanding a lot of partnerships with different companies and some exciting projects coming up. One is working with healthcare at the University of Texas Health System. There's a lot of burnout in healthcare and trying to help them with their leadership and manage their lives as well. And just continuing to work with leaders and, and helping people get better. I get a lot of energy from it. So it's, it's a win-win all the way around. And just, you know, trying to put more out there in the world. I do some pro bono coaching as well with nonprofits, which is really rewarding and just trying to make the world a better place. Why?

Debby 24:19

Well, I don't know about everyone else, but I, I feel like we can feel that positive energy coming off the season. So you're, you're doing it. You're living your

Susan 24:26

brand. Thanks. Yeah.

JoAnn 24:29

And that's refreshing. It's not just words. There's a lot of deeds behind what you do, and that's what sometimes we hear the words, we, we don't see the deeds. And I know that there's a lot of deeds and stuff going on that you're being very intentional about, and we really wanna thank you for that. But before we let you go today, we ask, we always ask our guests three additional questions, and they're not hard. The first question is, what is a book that you think a leader coach should

Susan 24:59

read? Well this is one of the first books I read as part of my leadership development in my master's degree. And it kind of led me to coaching, and it's called Questions are the Answer. By Hal Gregerson and he was the chair of the m i T leadership Center. And the whole book is about it's a breakthrough approach to your most vexing problems at work in life is all about the questions that you ask, and not only the questions, but how you frame them. One of the things that I did forget to mention is When people are also practicing this curiosity, I even invite them to say, I'm just curious. Can you tell me about, so it prevents people from being defensive in terms of answering and just kind of name it in that way. But I highly recommend this book. In fact, as I pulled it out, I'm like, Hmm, I should start rereading this. It's, it's a really great book. Thanks.

JoAnn 26:06

So second question is, what question have you been asked that gave you pause, made you think a little bit deeper or even differently?

Susan 26:16

I had the great fortune of being trained in a coaching program by David Peterson, who recently passed away, who was the head of coaching at Google. And his coaching style is very inquisitive, high breakthrough. And the one question he asked is, what else? Yeah, and even in coaching practice, when I was asked that, what else? It makes you pause, but also what people say initially is not what they really mean. So to be able to ask what else, what else, what else is really getting to the core of whatever the issue is. Absolutely.

JoAnn 27:04

That's one of my favorite questions too, Susan. Mm-hmm. So, you know, we picked curiosity as the word for today's podcast, but what in general is your word for

Susan 27:17

coaching? Acceleration.

JoAnn 27:21

Acceleration. I like that

Susan 27:24

already. The way I view coaching is, I work with really smart people, very successful, but they're stuck. They're kind of at a rest stop and. They can't accelerate themselves. And with that partnership, that's what I get them to do is accelerate in their career and move forward. So I meet them where they are, but I won't let them stay there. And it's all about movement. So acceleration is my word. That's a great word.

JoAnn 27:59

Thank you. And Susan, thank you for today and Debbie and Kevin, it's been a pleasure. As usual, we wanna thank our audience for listening and remind you to check out our word on coaching podcast. There's more of them. We'll have Susan's out there in, in a couple of weeks, so, But if you want to get some more advice, go to our podcast. There's plenty of them, plenty of seasons out there. And if you'd like to connect with us, connect with us on our Facebook page, coaches Three. And as we always say, you can also buy our book, the Word on Coaching. It's on Amazon. All you gotta do is put the word on coaching and it'll pop there. Buy yourself a copy. And by the way, buy it for someone else too and share it. So until next time, that is the word on coaching.