Season 7 Episode 1: The Word on Coaching - Challenges

Get Ready for an intriguing beginning to Season 7!
In this episode, Coaches3 hosts themselves in the first podcast of this season. JoAnn will lead the conversation about the challenges leaders are facing in 2024,

This year is proving to be a year where many leaders are dealing with the ripple effect of the past few years, the pandemic, return to work, great resignation, AI, social and emotional skill deterioration, and constant change.

Listen in as JoAnn, Debby, and Kevin share their perspectives and insights from leaders they have worked with on the real challenges leaders face in 2024.

In this episode you will hear some things you agree with and maybe some things you don't agree with either way we want to invite you into this conversation.

I know I say this all the time but ...  do not miss this episode!

Contact information:
Debby Neely, PCC ICF | LinkedIn
Kevin Fuselier | LinkedIn
JoAnn Auger | LinkedIn


Books Recommended in this episode:

Relationships 2.0: How To Keep Conflict From Spiraling | Hidden Brain Media

The 7 Habits Of Highly Effective People: Revised and Updated: 30th Anniversary Edition: Covey, Stephen R.: 9781471195204: Amazon.com: Books

Amazon.com: The Speed of Trust: The One Thing that Changes Everything (Audible Audio Edition): Stephen M. R. Covey, Stephen M. R. Covey, Simon & Schuster Audio: Audible Books & Originals


Check out our best-selling book The Word on Coaching.  Buy a copy for yourself and copies to share with others.
Amazon.com: The Word on Coaching: 9781737643807: Neely, Debby, Auger, Joann, Fuselier, Kevin: Books

Check out our  quick guide about powerful questions: "Embrace the Power of Questions!"   A Quick Reference Guide to Getting the Answers You Need.  

Transcript

JoAnn: 0:08

Hi, everyone. Welcome to the word on coaching. I am Joanne and I'm here with Kevin and Debbie. Say hello. we are kicking off another season of The Word on Coaching and we're really excited about it. We are coaches three, three friends with years of leadership and coaching experience who want to share our passion with others. Our podcasts are for leaders, whether you have a former title or not, because we know there's a lot of you out there leading without the title. We focus on one word on each of our podcasts that relates to leadership and coaching. We know leadership is hard, so a lot of us, along with our guests, Are here to give you tips, some information, hopefully a fresh perspective sometimes, but always with a lot of support. Debbie, Kevin. It's been a while since the three of us talk. So before we get started, I'd like for us to do a quick catch up. And I know us well enough to know that none of us have an issue with talking. So I'm going to ask a question. I'd like for each of you to answer. And I want you to think back to 2023. I know it feels like it was. Two years ago, but it was just a month ago. What was your proudest moment in 2023? Kev, I'll start with you.

Kevin: 1:31

Well, one of the things I'm most proud of when I look back at 2023 was I had an opportunity to speak at a couple of events. I spoke at an HR conference and then I did this. Cool little event. It's called Disrupt HR, and I did a talk. It was a five minute talk, and It went well, I'll just say that. It went well and the people watch the video recording. And I think I was in the top five of all the videos that had been released that week. My video was in the top five. And the funny thing that happened is my boss's boss saw the video and it's kind of taken on a life of its own. So I feel like it was some good work. And I was happy to, to do something that's worthwhile. So I felt really good about stepping into that challenge and then the work kind of coming alive on its own. So I think that's one thing I'm proud of from 2023.

JoAnn: 2:34

And we're proud of you and not surprised at all by the accolades. So congratulations. Thank you, Debbie. How about you? Yeah.

Debby: 2:44

So my proudest moment of 2023 was that I made progress on a personal growth goal that I've been working on for a while. So actually was a mindset shift that I've wanted and needed to make for a long time. And we all know how hard it is to make a mindset shift and stick with it. It was really around slowing down, being more mindful and intentional, setting boundaries, making sure my decisions and actions align with my personal values. And it's kind of, I would say midway through the year it started happening. I felt like things started to click. I'm not a hundred percent there, but I'm making progress and I'm really proud of that.

JoAnn: 3:25

That's great. That's really great. Congratulations. I was the one that posed the question and I'm, I am still having a hard time, which moment I want to share. So I'm going to share this is a very personal moment in that I got to spend 30 uninterrupted days with my granddaughter who at the time was 14. She lives in Alaska. She came to Virginia and stayed 30 days and went to a ballet intensive. So we were together just about 24 7. And I can tell you, it was It was just so wonderful getting to know my granddaughter in a very deep, personal way. So it really touched my heart and even more exciting, she says she wants to come back this summer. So, yoo hoo.

Kevin: 4:18

That's incredible.

JoAnn: 4:19

Yeah, I'm very excited. Well, guys, thank you for that. I know both of you have more moments that you could share I want to take a moment here to wish our audience out there that, I hope you had some moments that you're proud of in 2023. And we wish that 2024 is going to be one of those years that you have a lot of those moments. This is usually the time we would be introducing our word for the podcast and our guests. But three of us decided we wanted to kick off the podcast for, for this season. And the word that we chose Was challenged because we've been hearing a lot of that lately. I've had leaders say this has been a 2023 was a very challenging year in 2024, shaping up to be even more challenging. And although everyone's challenges are not exactly the same or at the same level, we have noticed some trends. So we decided. That we would talk about some of those challenges and hopefully throughout our season together. We will address some of those challenges. We're going to get started. Debbie, Kevin, you ready to go?

Kevin: 5:29

I think I'm ready.

JoAnn: 5:32

Let's start our conversation off with some of the challenge that each of us personally have heard from leaders that are that we personally have encountered and Debbie, I know that you coach and work with a very diverse group of leaders. What specific challenge you hear the most?

Debby: 5:54

Yeah, this is one of one of my favorite parts of my job is to hear the patterns and themes that are emerging from all the different leaders that I work with. And a really common one that I'm hearing right now is navigating the shift in their organizations cultures. You know, we're starting to see those ripple effects from the past few years from the pandemic and the things that have happened in the economy. You're moving to remote work, they lost a lot of talent. People decided to either change jobs or retire early. There's been a lot of change in their executive leadership in their organizations. Some of those organizations went through really tough times in the last few years, and some saw really rapid growth, and both of those things have consequences. So some of the things that the leaders are talking to me about when it comes to the change in their cultures is just that, that there has been so much change over the last few years, and processes, and people, and you know, all of that, that now they're feeling the fatigue of that, them and their teams, they're seeing a lot of change fatigue. You know, they're kind of like if someone says there's going to be one more change, my head's going to explode, right? They're seeing disengagement, both for themselves and their teams, in the work and in their mission for their organization. So people are really stepping back and saying, how does what I do really matter here? And how does it matter to me? What's, what's important here anymore? I'm hearing that a lot of the foundational things in those cultures, things like trust are low. And the environments are not psychologically safe. There's a lot of one way communication instead of those two way feedback loops that are in place and it's interesting because I read something yesterday and the quote that was in the article said, a great employee experience is no longer a nice to have, it's a must have. And so I feel like leaders are really trying to wrap their arms around all those things that have to do with organizational culture.

JoAnn: 7:52

You know, the saying that a culture is a million tiny different things, right? That's about a culture. I heard it wasn't from one of the leaders. It was from one of the leaders. Employees was telling me, because I was asking them, how would they describe the culture? And they said, I really can't. I don't even know what our culture is. We're moving so fast. We're, we've got a hybrid workers. We, you know, we've got people in. Different countries, and we don't get together enough to even talk about what our culture is, let alone vision and mission. I think a lot of leaders are having to take a step back and say, you know, maybe we need to get back to some basics, right?

Kevin: 8:32

as we talk about this whole culture shift, I think back over my 30 years in corporate America, all the different things that I've done. And one of the things that I've observed is we will say things like company culture, and we'll give this broad definition of culture, what it feels like to work here. But this is my experience. It comes down to your team sometimes. Because I've been on teams where the culture was different than it was in other places, and I think one of the challenges that people are facing is that individual culture that they're trying to create. On their team. And how do they do that? Knowing that people are fatigued, knowing that some people want to work three days, some people want to work four days. But you know what? And then there's the people that want to work six days. And how do you balance all of that stuff out together so that you can have a team that's focused? And one of the things, and as I talk to different people, is that line of sight metric. Yeah. That people, the work I'm doing today is actually impacting what the organization is doing. And most organizations struggle with helping the people who are truly on the front line who are doing the things day to day. How do they keep that connected to ultimately what the organization is delivering? I think that challenge of even goal setting and expectations, because that starts to create the Expectations of culture on your team. So it's a lot of different, like you said, Joe, and it's a million different things, but then on an individual team, it could be all those different dynamics right there in that little microcosm of the organization.

JoAnn: 10:22

Absolutely. that's a topic we could talk about for a very long time. And you know, we're, as I said, we're not here to problem solve today. Mostly what we hope to do is just, you know, let our audience know some of the things that other people are struggling with. And hopefully. Those that are listening to the podcast can give us some insight on what they're doing to, you know, refine or create or recreate or whatever they need to do in their culture. So so thanks for that. Guys. Kev, what have you been hearing?

Kevin: 10:52

One of the things that I've been hearing is. Some things around how we get along together when we are together, right? Or even if we're in different places, how do we get along? And that really goes back to social skills, emotional intelligence, and leadership. is the leader being emotionally intelligent? And so it really comes down to Debbie mentioned the pandemic. And I think we've kind of changed who we are, what we expect and how we relate with each other. And I've been talking to, I was talking to a consultant and he said, he believes that. Some of our social skills declined during the pandemic because of the fact that we weren't interacting with each other, and now we're back trying to learn these new norms, and that makes social skills and emotional intelligence so much more important because it impacts the team. If the leader is not emotionally aware and intelligent, it can shift into self management. they're letting their emotions pour out onto their onto their team, and it erodes trust. It makes people feel unsafe sometimes because they don't know what to expect from their leader. And then just the fact that people being able to come to work. Being able to express their emotions without letting their emotions take control of them, you know, it really goes back to, can I trust you? If I tell you something, do we really have trust? If we're working together, do we really have trust? And that whole emotional piece is recognizing what's going, what's actually going on on your team and being able to I think emotional intelligence is always important. But sometimes when things start to go wrong, or when things get tough, we have to amp it up another level because otherwise, the ultimate impact of not being an emotionally intelligent leader or team is that you really don't get the work done that needs to get done. You start to, you know, missed deadlines and not be able to work together. And it leads to turnover. Some of the people who, who left their organizations, they left because they were tired of being in an environment that was, can we say toxic? And I think one of the key ingredients to a toxic environment is a It's not emotionally safe. It's not a safe environment to be in. And so I think it just starts to trickle down and it impacts the team. But if the, if the leader can lead with emotional intelligence, being aware of their emotions and helping the team be able to articulate that, I think you can build a strong team where you can really talk about the things that you need to talk about. And I could probably go on and on about this, but That's kind of what I'm, what I'm sensing. And from different people I've talked to and work with over time. Yeah. I

Debby: 13:46

think when you don't have those social skills and that emotional intelligence, I mean, think about it. You're not listening to each other. You're not connecting or communicating with each other. You have a lack of empathy, maybe a lack of self awareness. And so that's going to, that is going to have a ripple effect, right? Collaboration is going to be low. Conflict resolution is not going to be happening. Innovation is going to stop. So I feel like a trend I'm already hearing a lot of conversation is the ripple effects of things, right? If you don't pay attention to your emotional intelligence and your, your social skills and, and connecting with people and building those relationships in that trust, then there are other consequences. to that that is going to impact the bottom line of your business. I agree.

JoAnn: 14:35

I got an example sent to me the other day that I found very interesting. This leader was reaching out and says, do you know anybody who does for lack of a better word was their statement, etiquette training. That's interesting. So, you know, leaders are saying that a lot of folks who, you know, that came into the workforce during the pandemic. Don't have the same social skills and a couple of the examples that they gave was that they've some folks because they lack social skills or have lost them or kind of not used them in a while, won't make eye contact, mumble, you know, interrupt one. Person came late for a meeting and they said, you know, our meeting started at this time, you know, we would like for you to be on time. Oh, that's my workout time. Okay. But it was very interesting and since I heard that I kind of did some research. is that we've kind of lost the art of conversation the art of socialization. So I think there's some work to be done there.

Kevin: 15:49

Absolutely. And I was thinking one of the things with emotional intelligence is being able to read the room. Well, now the room, it may be in face person to person room you're trying to read. It could be a virtual room that you're trying to read. And for me, the most difficult one of all is the hybrid reading the room, you know, keeping track of the people in the room and the people who are remote dialed in through whatever, you know, zoom teams, whatever that might be, that is So difficult to do even as a trained facilitator. That is the hardest thing to do is to keep touch in touch with people in all those different modalities at the same time. And so we have to upskill when it comes to to that for sure. So maybe that's maybe maybe that's our next book.

JoAnn: 16:46

I'd have to upskill to write it. So Debbie, what about you? And what else are you hearing out there?

Debby: 16:54

Yeah, I would say another trend that I'm hearing is around succession planning, you know, recruiting and retaining talent. I think, again, it, it, I feel like these are overlapping a little bit. There's some connections between them as leaders are saying, you know, I, I just don't have the connection with my team. I don't know them as well. Maybe I don't have the opportunities to observe them. They're not in the office. So you learn a lot about people just by running into, into them in the hallway or in the, in the break room, watching how they interact with other people. You know, those types of things. And so leaders are saying, I don't know what talent I have on my team. And, and so I think that's become a big challenge for people. Leaders are also struggling with just making time on their, their calendar to stop and think and think about their team. Like, who do I have on my team? What are, what are their strengths? What are their development gaps? That they need. What what are their desires? Have I even asked them what their ambitions are in the organization? Are people happy? Do we need to do things differently? You know, or are they not fulfilled in their role and they might leave. So even just making the time to just hit that pause button and think. About things and reflect on things are things that I hear a lot leaders who have the best intentions are like I want to do that. And I know I should be doing that, but they are not making the time or they're not protecting that time when when they do make it. And then I think they struggle with. Okay, so I have these intentions, I've identified strengths and development opportunities, but then I don't know how to actually develop my team like I don't know what a development conversation is supposed to look and sound like. I'm sending people to workshops and to training, not realizing that that's a very small part of how you can develop people, you know, mentoring's a great way, finding them actual experience in the work, delegating to them are other great ways to do that. And then I think too, sometimes they approach the development of their team with more of a one size fits all approach, and they try to develop everyone the same way. And approach that the development plan for everybody in the same way. And we're not all the same. We're, we're all different. So those are a lot of the things that I feel like this is a challenge. I hear people talk about a lot where there's a lot of good intention behind it. It's just the, the follow through or the not knowing what to do around it.

JoAnn: 19:21

Yeah, I, I agree with that. Everything you said I actually talked to someone recently who was thinking of leaving their organization because they feel like they're not being promoted and as quickly as they thought they should be. And I asked, I said, what kind of development plan are you on? And he said, what development plan? I don't have a development plan. And I said, oh, have you talked to your boss about that? Okay. No, why should I'm doing a good job? I should just get promoted and and different views of how what that you know what that looks like. And I think as a leader, some leaders who don't see the value of development. What what other course does this person think they don't. They didn't know that there should be a development plan for them. They just think I'm doing this job. I'm pretty sure I could do the person above me. I could do their job, but they've not had that conversation. And so this, this person, it sounds like this company may lose a very valuable asset to their organization simply because there's not been a development conversation and they're not doing a good job of engaging and back to what we said earlier, giving a good employee experience, right?

Kevin: 20:38

Yeah, and I'm what I'm about to say, it's probably going to be a little bit contrary to this is people need to be in charge of their own career. when I ask people, do you have a development plan and they tell me no. There's only one person I'm blaming for that. It's like, write it on a piece of paper yourself. I mean, you don't, you don't have to have a form in the system. What do you want to do? Where do you want to be? take ownership of your own development. It's your career. It's going to be your chick. It's going to be your legacy. And at the same time, Leaders need to create the space for their people to grow and develop, and it's not just sending them to class. Like Debbie said, it's experiences. I was talking to someone. I said, what does this person need to know? What do they need to be able to do? And what experiences do they need? to have before they get into this role. And one of the things I used to say over and over is the person's first time in the meeting should not be their first time in the meeting. What is the secrecy around leadership? If you think this person has the potential to be a successor, a potential to be a leader in your organization. Why can't they come to that staff meeting? If you don't trust them to come to the staff meeting, they probably are not the right person to be in that role six, 12, 18 months from now. Right. What are we, what are we doing? Open the door, make it more accessible, more transparency and succession planning and development. One of the worst stories I ever heard in my corporate career is somebody was leaving the organization and their leadership was trying to retain them. And their leader said, Oh, you're, you're, you're one of our high potential leaders. We have so many plans for you. And the person said, well, nobody told me what a, what a, what a sad tale. So I think it's definitely a partnership leadership and the person, but the person. Has to let the leader know that they are interested. They want to develop in the leadership, take the cues and support that person and create the environment. So that's, that's my two cents on that one.

Debby: 22:52

We'll take it. And I saw an article the other day that I thought was really interesting because it was talking about how there needs to be a focus on what we call soft skills, right? So a lot of times when leaders are looking for succession planning talent on their team, they're looking at who has the Maybe the knowledge or, you know, the abilities to do certain things, but you also have to look at just who that person is. What is the character that they bring to that role? And do they have integrity and can they build relationships with people? Can you count on them to show up and get things done? And so this article was very much like leaders have. I'm going to put that to the side, and that has to be part of this whole process

JoAnn: 23:38

as well. I agree. I agree. Kevin, I think we have time for one more challenge. What are you, what are you hearing out there?

Kevin: 23:49

Well, there is a there's a challenge. When it comes to the concepts of diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging, sometimes there's a lot of charge to some of these words that come into the workplace. There's a lot of charge in society from some of these words. We can see when here different things in the media about different governors and different Organizations doing away with their offices of diversity, equity and inclusion, lots of different things. But to me I don't mean to oversimplify it, but the word that sums it up for me is belonging. When people come, do they really feel like they belong? are they treated with respect? Some of the things they taught us in kindergarten, do you treat them with respect? Do you listen to their ideas and opinions? Do you include them in social things? Do you include them in business challenges? Do you include them in decision making? all that are an appropriate level. And I think the challenge is I think sometimes we try to make it too difficult. are we treating people with equity? And what does that mean? It means that everybody has an opportunity to to be their best and whatever support they need to be their best. Can the organization support that person in a way for them to be their best? And Not make it about programs or quotas or numbers or this thing or that thing, but truly, can you look in the mirror and said, yeah, everyone. on this team has a fair opportunity and equal opportunity to be successful. And do we really treat people like they belong here? And anybody who's ever felt, and we've all felt this, you've been somewhere where you felt like you didn't belong. That is one of the worst feelings ever. When someone's looked at you and actually say, well, what are you doing here? Or why are you here? What we're talking about is the opposite of that, where I've gone places and they welcomed me. Like I was a long lost relative and they make you feel like, Hey, you matter to us. We want you to be here. And to me, creating that environment, back to that team and even organizationally, do people feel like they belong? Whatever diversity they bring to the team, do you make them feel like they belong? Whatever. You know, challenge or whatever that person may bring to the team. Can they belong on this team with whatever, whatever their accommodation, whatever that needs to be? Do we make them feel like they belong? Is it okay for that person to be, to be who they are in the, in the workplace and that we treat people with respect. And so again, a lot of charge around some of these words, but to me, it just comes back to decency. And how we treat each other and I think most people know how to treat people to make them feel like they belong, but sometimes people choose not to do that. And that's where we have concerns. So I'll get off my little soapbox and

JoAnn: 26:53

yeah,

Debby: 26:53

well, and I think unfortunately, there's still a lot of fear and discomfort around this topic for people. So they aren't always vulnerable or open or You know, willing to, to address some of it. And I think that I think that's a big part of it. I mean, knowing that we all have our biases, we all have our filters that we put things through and We're not robots. So, you know, just being able to, to notice that but also be aware what are those things that maybe you don't think about that makes someone feel not included or like they don't belong. I was on a meeting, a couple months ago with an organization and I work with one of the leaders, and I noticed throughout the meeting that his, his boss kept calling him. By like his nickname, like a nickname, right? So like if his name was Steven, the boss kept calling him Steve. But when I had interacted with him, I always called him Steven. And so when we got on the call, just the two of us, I asked him, I said, have I been calling you like the wrong name? Do you go by Steve or Steven? He's like, I go by Steven. But his boss was calling him and I'm like, what is, what is going on with that? And he just really. And I kept thinking, you come to work every day and this person calls you the name you don't want to be called, you know, and so it can be even be simple, as simple as that when it comes to diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging.

JoAnn: 28:25

We used to hear a lot about assimilating. You know, it was the role if you came into our country or you came into our company, you were to do the assimilating and how wrong is that? You know, there are certain things. Yeah. Do we have to follow follow certain rules and certain policies and procedures? I'm not talking about that. But it's like, you, you have to be like us. You assimilate and talk like us and do like and I had someone tell me recently, um, to Kevin's point of belonging, this, this person had felt like most jobs that she had had in the last few years, she never had a sense of belonging for who she was. She was always like, she had to assimilate. To what was around her and she said, I've got a lot of talent and I and and the real me never shows up because that's not how they act. And and she said, it makes me sad because I think I have some things I could do and things I could share. But I get the sense that. That won't be welcomed here. I think we've got a lot of work that we still can do. And to Kevin's point is that we need to have some very transparent conversations, not just in leadership, but across the board. What can we do where when people come to our organization? No matter how big or small that they feel a sense of belonging. Kevin, I really liked that word. So we got a lot of work to do, right?

Kevin: 30:04

I truly believe we are up to, to that challenge because we are, we can be. We can be better, you know, once we know better, you know, we, we do better. I think Maya Angelou had a quote, something to that. Once we know better, we do better. And I think a lot of times that's how we should look at some of these things around diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging is maybe you didn't know yesterday, but you know, today I want to be called Kevin, not Kev. So could you just respect that, respect me and call me Kevin, and like I said, in the workplace. We just have to hold each other accountable. And I think that's kind of what one of the things is, yes, Steven's had that conversation, but somebody else on the team has noticed that too, and somebody on the team should go to the balls and say, stop calling him. Steve, he wants to be called Steven in, you know, because whatever that boss is hanging up is and just tell them that's, that's disrespectful. That's going to take a lot of courage, but that's what it's going to take. Is all this, all the stuff we talk about being able to have a crucial conversation because that's that's what it's going to take is for us to getting involved in these conversations in dialogue with each other. And respecting each other. Not, you know, another crucial skills is mutual respect. That is what this whole thing boils down to. Can we mutually respect each other to come together with a common goal and get that goal achieved and make each other feel. Like we belong there.

JoAnn: 31:38

It's a great, it's a great way to segue into our next part of our conversation is that as you can tell, we just covered a few challenges. There's still a lot of challenges that leaders are out there facing, you know, such as the rapid pace of technology. Now we got AI on top of all of that. Right? Employee well being. There's a lot more conversation about, you know, how involved should leadership be with the well being of their employees? Ethical leadership some companies are having to actually define what ethical leadership is all about we've kind of lost sight of that Agility and adaptability we could go on and on And and i'm sure those that are listening to the podcast probably could add several more so As I said earlier, our plan for this season is to invite guests that can address some of these challenges and share their insight. So we want to once again invite you, our audience, if you have a challenge you would like us to address or speak to, or if you have insight on one, please let us know. Please contact us. So with that, we're going to start wrapping up and, you know, guys, we're, we're not off the hook just because it's us. I'm going to ask the questions we always ask. So the first question is, what is a book that you would recommend for all our leader coaches for this year to read? Kevin, I'll start with you.

Kevin: 33:11

I'm going to make it easy. It's not even a whole book. It's a podcast episode. The podcast is Hidden Brain. In the podcast episode is relationships 2. 0 how to keep conflict from spiraling. Again, that's Hidden Brain. It's a podcast, Relationship 2. 0, How to Keep Conflict from Spiraling. It is a podcast that will change the way you listen and communicate with the people you live with, the people that you work with, and the people that you interact with. It's been one of the most impactful things that I've heard in the last two or three years.

JoAnn: 33:56

Wow. That's pretty impressive. Okay. Debbie.

Debby: 34:01

So the book I would recommend is an oldie but a goodie. I feel like I refer to this book all of the time and that's the seven habits of highly effective people. And I feel like that's a book, whether you again have the leadership title or not. I mean, and it impacts work and personal. And I, again, I feel like I'm constantly bringing up quotes from that or activities from that book. And so if you haven't read that one that's the one I would recommend. And if you have, I would recommend you go back and read it.

JoAnn: 34:31

Exactly, Deb. And you and I are thinking along the same lines. Not only that book, the book that I recommend that I just pulled off my shelf to start reading is The follow up, The Speed of Trust, and I think that's an excellent book. If there's ever been a time that we need to rebuild trust, it's, now's the time, and that's a book that has a lot of great one of the things I love what Stephen Covey says is that trust isn't fluff, you know, it's not one of these, that you, you have to be purposeful, you have to do it on purpose, and you need to be pragmatic. With it. So that's my recommendation. Okay, you guys ready for the second question. So what is one piece of advice that you would give to our leaders who are facing all kinds of challenges out there? What is, what is one thing that you would encourage them to do or not do or be or whatever? Kevin, we'll go with you again. What's your, what's, what's your advice? My

Kevin: 35:35

advice is invest in your listening skills. I think that is the most important skill right now is to really listen to be able to hear and understand what's going on with your people, with your clients, with your organization is improve our listening. Sometimes we get so busy doing, we're not really listening. And so I would encourage leaders to improve your listening skills in 2024.

JoAnn: 36:10

Great. I agree. Debbie.

Debby: 36:13

My piece of advice is be intentional. So be intentional with your words, with your actions. You know, when you focus on things, that's the stuff that you're going to change. That's the things that you're going to see that will make a difference and the results that you're going to get. So be intentional and whatever that means for you, how you make that happen. But that would be my advice.

JoAnn: 36:37

Yeah, this may sound a little self serving. I promise it's not. I believe it is. Find someone that will challenge you and challenge the way you look at life. You look at things and that recommendation comes with find a good coach that someone is going to challenge your perspective on things, challenge you to look at things a little different, challenge you to grow, challenge you to listen and, and, and look past yourself. That's my piece of advice for leaders this year. So, last question. What is your word for 2024? Not just for tonight, but for this year. What's your word? Kevin?

Kevin: 37:24

Self discipline. Hmm.

JoAnn: 37:28

We're tracking. We're tracking. Debbie?

Debby: 37:33

Mine, which has come up several times in our podcast, is pause.

JoAnn: 37:37

Yeah, I like that. Pause. If we'd pause more, we'd stay out of trouble, or at least I would. A little bit more. Mine is tracks with Kevin's is discipline, to be disciplined. So, we shall check in with each other during the year to see how that's shaping up. Can you believe it? This, we have completed our first podcast of the season and I first want to thank Debbie and Kevin. It's always so good to catch up with you guys. And it's always fun to hear from, from you. Believe it or not, guys, we don't get to talk. Those of you that are listeners is some of the times, the only time we really get to talk to one another on these podcasts. So we look forward to it as well. But we want to thank you, our audience for listening. And if you want to, you know, learn more, there's more podcasts out there. Just check us out. And we also want to. Let you know that we still have that book out there so go order that book for yourself and for other people you can buy it on amazon and We we challenge you to not just buy one buy two or three and hand them out so guys until next time That's the word on coaching