Season 7 Episode 4: The Word on Coaching - Leadership Edge

What sets you apart as a leader? What is the thing about you that when applied at the right time gives you an advantage - That is your leadership edge.

In this episode, Rick Albee shares his vast experience in leadership and leadership development.

Rick's career spans more than 40 years and includes significant experience as a coach, organizational development professional, and human resources leader at various companies.

Tune in for insights on how to identify and sharpen your leadership edge.

Contact information:

(26) Rick Albee | LinkedIn

Books Recommended in this episode:
Amazon.com: The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable (Audible Audio Edition): Patrick Lencioni, Charles Stransky; introduction by Patrick Lencioni, Random House Audio: Audible Books & Originals

Amazon.com: The Four Obsessions of an Extraordinary Executive: A Leadership Fable (Audible Audio Edition): Patrick Lencioni, Charles Stransky; introduction by Patrick Lencioni,

Amazon.com: Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win (Audible Audio Edition): Jocko Willink, Leif Babin, Jocko Willink, Leif Babin, Macmillan

Amazon.com : the coaching habit


Check out our best-selling book The Word on Coaching.  Buy a copy for yourself and copies to share with others.
Amazon.com: The Word on Coaching: 9781737643807: Neely, Debby, Auger, Joann, Fuselier, Kevin: Books

Check out our  quick guide about powerful questions: "Embrace the Power of Questions!"   A Quick Reference Guide to Getting the Answers You Need.  

Transcript

JoAnn: 0:05

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the word on coaching. I'm Joanne and I'm here with Kevin and Debbie.

Debby: 0:12

Hi, everybody.

Rick: 0:13

Hello, everybody.

JoAnn: 0:15

We are called coaches three. We're three friends with years of leadership and coaching experience who want to share our passion with others. Our podcasts are for leaders, whether you're in that formal role or not, because we know a lot of you are out there leading without that title. We focus on one word that relates to leadership and coaching. We know leadership is hard, so we, along with our guest, give you tips, information, and a fresh perspective, hopefully, and always a lot of support. So just know that we're here for you. And today we're excited to have Rick, you'll have to explain. Are we former colleagues? Anyway, we know each other.

Unknown2: 0:59

Once a colleague, always a colleague, Joanne.

JoAnn: 1:03

But I met Rick, I guess, a good seven years ago. No, twelve years ago.

Unknown2: 1:10

Oh, twelve. Twelve years.

JoAnn: 1:13

Wow, twelve years ago. Rick is one of those people that when you get to know him, he's one of those folks that just keeps moving forward. He's always busy. He's always doing something. And I was reviewing your bio a little bit, Rick, and I was like, yeah, this describes Rick. You know, he not only holds one degree, he holds several degrees. He has a B. S. and an M. S. and civil and environmental engineering has an MBA, not to mention thousands of certificates and certifications. So he is always learning and growing. And that is something that you, those of you that listen to us pretty regularly know that that's something we say we should always be learning. And that's always impressed me about Rick. Thank you. And he's had several jobs too. I was going to teach you and say you couldn't keep a job, but it looks more like.

Unknown2: 2:10

No, it's true.

JoAnn: 2:12

He had a lot of different interests, not only was he an engineer, but he also was in HR, doing a lot of different roles in the HR department. He was a lobbyist. A business operation manager and then in 2013 launched his own business and this is how we really probably got connected because of this. He started his own business in leadership development and career development. So he's got one more big step he was talking, telling me about and Rick, I'm not going to steal the thunder. I love it's called his 4G. So, Rick, welcome, add anything, but I do want you to tell people about your 4G endeavor.

Rick2: 2:58

Oh, boy. Four Gs is as, as I get closer to retirement, the four Gs are the things that I've decided I'm really gonna focus on. First I have two darling granddaughters. Who I can't get enough of, and they have me wrapped around their fingers. I I love to play golf. And so I've tried to do as much of that as I can. I also have played guitar for many years, but in the last Six months I've actually gotten into with a neighbor here of mine into performing live, which you talk about an overriding experience. That's it. Particularly if you have no talent. And then the fourth one is just goofing off. You know, I mean, I just let, let it go. So my

JoAnn: 3:44

4g. I love it. I think I may steal that. Well, when Rick and I were talking about what word this just gives you a little more insight about Rick, I had sent him an email. I said, Rick, just think of a couple of words that you think that connect you to leadership and coaching, and we'll just kind of talk them through. I called him and I said, you know, were you able to come up with some words? Cause I had a couple that I wanted to mention. He said, yeah, I have 53. I said, okay, I think we can find one word out of those words.

Rick2: 4:20

You might have to narrow that down.

Rick: 4:21

And

Rick2: 4:22

the one that we picked really was none of those.

JoAnn: 4:30

We had a great conversation and we did finally narrow it down. It came out of a statement about what makes a good leader. And, you know, he and Rick talked about leaders that edge. And that's an interesting word. And when he used it again, I said, well, let's pause there. What do you mean by a leadership edge? So that really took us in the direction. So today's word is leadership edge. And we're really, I'm excited to hear what Rick has to say about it. But, you know, one of the things that we do. Before we get started is that we talk about, you know, I, I have an idea of what leadership edge is Debbie and Kevin probably do as well. But how would you define leadership edge?

Rick2: 5:21

Yeah, that's a great question. I, so, so probably the best thing would be to start with a quote that I. Grabbed out of a book a couple of years ago that really stuck with me. If you go on Google. Leadership you only get about 15 million hits and 2. 8 seconds, something like that. So they're, they're an awful lot of anecdotes and experts and everything out there. But I, but all of that is for a purpose. And I was reading a book called the advantage by Patrick Balencioni, which is a summation of some of his models that I really like. And one little quote at the back of the book, near the back of the book, caught my ear and it just made so much sense. Doesn't talk about what leadership ed is, but he says, The whole point of leadership is not to entertain the leader. It's to mobilize people around what's most important. Mobilize people around what's most important. That to me struck a chord. There mobilizes a cool word because it sort of means some energy invested, not just by the organization, but by the person, if you're mobilizing and they're kind of, you know, it's kind of this mutual, let's go get it. Kind of thing. People, because organizations are nothing but people. And then around what's most important. That's where the focus needs to be. So if you're good at that, then at mobilizing people around what's most important, you probably can be a good leader. So that's, that's kind of the start of it. The second thing I've used a term for years called gaining an edge. None of us are perfect. We're not Superman. We're not going to, you know, You know, come in and save the day, but somehow, you know, in this crazy world, we've got to gain an edge. Yeah. Is there something we can do to keep just a little bit ahead of the curve? So I've always used that. How do you gain an edge? You know, with career coach clients, you know, they're wondering how to perform better. So how do you gain an edge given what you have? So I kind of combined them and that's what led to our conversation, Joanne. It was just this, this idea that, that leaders can gain an edge. And every leader is different and their, their edge, that edge that they bring it sort of that leadership edge to get to the definition would be whatever it is that I as a leader have or know or can do that will mobilize people around what's most important, whatever that is. And it's going to be different. We've got 8 billion people on the planet and they're all different. Every single one of them are different. We're not in the same mold. And the people who are that we lead are not the same. So each of us sort of has a responsibility if we're going to be leaders to find that thing that is it's kind of sets us apart situationally in a given in a given circumstance that will allow us. To somehow get people mobilized around what's most important. So you know, there are lots of ways that can, can happen, but that that's generally how I do it. Whatever, whatever unique thing that, that an individual brings to the table that mobilizes people around what's most important, that to me is, is gaining a leadership edge and people would, would do well to to, to discover what theirs is.

Rick: 8:45

Rick, I love, I love what you're saying there about the leadership edge. And if you could, could you share this a little bit more with us? What makes the difference between just plain old regular everyday leadership and having that leadership edge?

Rick2: 8:59

if you look back at someone who is leading yeah, I've, I, I've been in circumstances before where someone will refer to someone else and say what, you know, they really exercise good leadership there. They're really a good leader. And, and as a coach, I'm, I'm trained to, to ask the question, well, what tells you that? Right. And it's, it's always the things that, that someone does. Or the things that they, that they say, or, you know, their, their ability to get, get some things done. So leadership is sort of this broad blanket thing that's hard to define and, and narrow down, but the leadership edge would be one of those things that a particular person who you've identified as a good leader did, or, you know, the things that they brought to the table that made the difference. I think that's really the what leadership is and how it distinguishes from just, just leadership. Everybody's different. You look in an organization and there are so many people who are good leaders in their own way. And many of them are different. So one's good in one way and one's good another way. They get, they get the outcomes they want, et cetera but somehow they're able to tap into it. And they're either consciously or unconsciously very aware of their the things that they bring to the table that constitute their, their leadership edge. You know, sometimes we talk with clients in terms of, well, what's your superpower? Yeah, this isn't really a superpower because a superpower. You know, you know, it's sort of like being able to see through, through steel and, and big muscles and, and all that stuff, you know, that, that really knock people's socks off. Sometimes that edge is just a little minor thing. Certainly, if you've got a superpower, that's great. But what's a superpower for one might not work for someone else. So you know, so, so it's, it's leadership edge is personal. It's situational to a given leader. Kevin, I don't know if I'm answering

Kevin: 10:52

your question or not. Yeah, you are, as you, as you were talking, I've been thinking about how it really requires a leader to be self aware and to know what that thing that they do. That is really a differentiator for them. So they know that they can consistently deliver and bring that in the situations when, when it's necessary, like, when, when you need to be have your edge, you have your edge. And you use that, you know how to use that consistently to get the results, the things that you were talking about earlier. So I really think it's something that all leaders should really think about. What is my edge? What makes me good in these different situations?

Rick2: 11:32

Well, so, so if I can build on that, I agree with that. And I would also say that every situation is different. So a good leader recognizes they've got a toolkit of, of, of things that they can use, and they won't try to use all of them at once. And, and so it's, it's really being audience focused what do they need? What would be the best thing that would, would get this person mobilized? And sometimes even recognizing quickly that a person is in a, is a misfit and may not be the right person to get this done. And unfortunately, sometimes people, leaders have to take. make tough decisions to, to, to work around that somehow or, or to replace people. And it's, it's, I guess it's sad when it happens because it probably means that there was some sort of, either something has changed drastically or there was some sort of misfit from the beginning that wasn't caught. But I think leaders who have a leadership edge, get very focused on the outcomes. What are the outcomes that we need? And then from there, they'll back into, well, what, so what would be effective in getting these, these people going,

Debby: 12:40

you know, and I love about what you're sharing, Rick is, I feel like that mobilization around what's important is kind of is kind of a North star for all leaders, something we can align to, but then there's that authenticity of, okay, so how do I bring my authentic leadership to that? And when you talk about my strengths and my personality traits, so it allows people to be their authentic self in that leadership and. We all have that mobilization goal that we're looking towards. I think it's a good point.

Rick2: 13:10

Yeah, excellent. Yeah, I mean, it is it again. It becomes very, very circumstantial. And, it's very much needed. There're, there're an awful lot of quote unquote leaders. I used to tell people that I, I've, I've known, quote unquote, leaders in leadership positions that couldn't lead water out of a bucket if it was turned upside down, and that they used sheer brute force of their power or authority. And you know, if that works in a moment, you know, there may be times when that's really situationally very apparent appropriate. But oftentimes it's not the only thing if that's the only only sword you're bringing to the sword fight, then then you may find that you're losing some of the battles.

Debby: 13:51

So that's a great segue into a question that I was thinking about Rick is, you know, our 1st. Episode of the season, the 3 of us talked about challenges. That leaders are facing in today's environment, and it could be hard to be a leader today. So why do you think the leadership edge is so important right now, in particular.

Rick2: 14:13

Ooh, well, that's a good question. And we could probably spend a whole whole hour on that. It's like any, any time. These times are very challenging. There's an awful lot of ambiguity. Yeah, I've studied a lot of change management through the years and, and leaders are, are constantly faced with it. They're faced with their own resistance. They're faced with other resistance there. It just seems that you know, that that term perpetual whitewater with regard to change management has been around for a while, and it's not receding at all. And so more than anything, very competitive world with an awful lot of factors that are building in it, becomes really paramount for someone to, to understand. That they make a difference as a leader. You can't just call it in, say, I'm the boss. Go do it. You know, it takes more than that. We're seeing a lot of situations these days where people are just rebelling against their companies. These companies that are paying them money. I find it ironic. I'm a baby boomer. So maybe I'm maybe I'm old fashioned, but I do find that, you know, when people you know, totally protested about what being asked of them to do. Okay, so the leader has to deal with that. It's information. What? How do I do that? I still need to get this person mobilized around what's most important. We can't just to say it's not important. So I don't know that it's any more important today than it's ever been, but it is is very important if you're going to be a leader of consequence in an organization.

JoAnn: 15:45

Well, back to the challenging and it is, I do think. You know, we're aware that we have 5 generations of people in the workforce, right? The 1st ever. And I'm a baby boomer as well, Rick. So, yeah, sometimes I've learned, like, maybe I just should be quiet. that's not the way we do things. Right. Since you have been talking about the edge. I've been reviewing in my mind some leaders that I had the privilege of being part of their team or and one in particular. And I think Debbie will recognize this person that I wouldn't have until you define leadership edge that he definitely. Had leadership edge and he was our senior vice president of the organization that we worked for. And we were trying to roll out a a program. Now he, he was responsible for several thousand people, but we were trying to get word to him. It's like, this program's really important. We need your support. And just the very fact that this person showed up. He showed up and said, you said it was important. I believed you is important. And then not only did he believe us, then he told everybody in that room, it was important. And he had that edge. It's like he had that sense of like, if we're going to mobilize these people into this next generation of leaders. This is important and he saw that and he didn't, he didn't hesitate because we were several layers down as far, but he said, look, I'm going to be, I'm going to be there for you. So that came to my mind as a leader with the edge, you know, is going to be there and show up. So, I, wanted to share that because I wanted to ask you, I'm sure you've worked with a lot of leaders, Rick, not only in just in the coaching and the developing, but you also served alongside and for what do you think sets them apart, the ones that you and a couple of examples of what made them unique in your opinion.

Rick2: 18:04

I've had the opportunity to work with a lot of people through the years who I've learned a lot from. And I incorporate into some of my coaching, you know, sort of anonymously. But so, so, so a couple of things here. First off, I think everybody has a leadership edge somewhere, and it's not just one thing. The question is whether they employ it appropriately at the right time in the right circumstances, and whether it results in people being mobilized around what's most important. So I think first and foremost, the people that I've known who have been good leaders. They kind of knew what was important and they, and they, they said, this is important, this is what we need to do. Are we clear about that? Right. Not in a threatening, nasty way, but just look, I want to be sure. In fact, if you, read Patrick Linceoni's book about the four obsessions of an extraordinary executive, three out of the four obsessions have to do with, with, with ensuring organizational clarity. It is about constantly repeating and repeating the the importance of what we're doing and whether that's in a global sense or in a micro sense within a given department or small organization, doesn't matter. People have to make it clear. So I, you know, as I look at leaders I've had. I had one in particular, I'll tell this quick story on myself. I was a operations manager. I had full P and O responsibilities for a company I worked for, worked out of Atlanta and I went down there as the first time I'd ever really had that kind of responsibility and I was a little standoffish on some of it. And my boss came down, the guy who hired me, brought me into the job, actually came over from another department, he came down and he was asking me questions. And a lot of my questions, which were very innocently correct, says, Look, I don't know. That's a good question. I can find out. So a little bit later on that evening, we went out for a beer. These conversations oftentimes best happen over a beer. And he said to me, Look, Rick I have a lot of faith in you. But there are some things that I really do expect you to know the answers to, and that there's some things that you really need to do. If you can't do that, you need to let me know because I need to find someone who can. Now, I almost squirted the beer out my nose. I mean, that's not the sort of thing that you'd like to, to hear. But at the same time, I realized later that that may have been one of the most important leadership actions. He didn't yell at me. He didn't scream at me. We were out having a good time. I'd known him for years, but he basically made it clear. I expect you to know these to take action on them and to to really be in charge of this area down here. And so, you know, I've thought back so many times he and I You know, many years later continue to, to be friends. I, I respect him so much. He went on to some pretty cool things. But, but some of the, some of the, the things that I'm, I think about there's a directness. Don't beat around the bush. Tell people, but do it with a little bit of a cushion. Don't hit them over the head with a two by four. You know, I understand it's a real person behind that. Mentorship. offering assistance, that kind of thing. Not settling for mediocrity. I mean, that easily could have, could have happened. These are what people, what good leaders do. They hold people accountable. And I don't mean by threatening them with their jobs, but they hold people accountable. This is what I expect of you. And, and one of the things I, big gaps I see these days is too many leaders That will be under their breath, complain about somebody about their performance and not getting it done. And I'll ask them, well, how'd they do on their last performance appraisal? And they said, Oh, they met all expectations. So wait a minute. That doesn't sound like there's a mismatch there. Well, you know, we kind of want to be nice and okay. the people who I think have a leadership edge, know how to hold people accountable by focusing them on what they're doing. What what's important and what this individual's role needs to be. I happen to think, oh, focus is another one. Wow. You know, being able to really and part of that is the listening. Part of it is really sitting in and talking about. It's not just showing up to a meeting and saying how important it is, but it's the focus following up. Making sure that the message was heard, you know, coming back again and again and again to make sure that people understand this is still the focus. And I think if there's anything that I appreciate more than anything, it's a sense of humor. We're all, you know, I heard the quote once, I believe it, is that we're all out there faking it. Nobody's knows what the heck they're doing. Nope. You know, I mean, you know, when I, when, when I was a little boy and someone said, what do you want to be when you grow up? It was going to be a quarterback or it's going to be you know Indian chief or doctor or lawyer, whatever. No one ever said, well, I want to go be an HR executive and then be a coach. Right. You know, having a little, little self deprecating humor about things and realizing everybody in there has got a job for a reason. Yes, we want them to like it, we'd like them to own it, but they also need to provide for their family and a company has important things for that person, but it needs to be a fair trade of value. I just mentioned a couple of things that I've seen. I mean, I'd love to hear what you guys say about, you know, some of the things you've seen in people where you see somebody who had who may have had an edge. What are some of the things you guys have noticed?

Debby: 23:39

I feel like a lot of what you said, Rick resonated with me and and I kept thinking of the and. Right. Is too many leaders will go into and say, I have to be this or this. I can't, there can't be an, and they're like the, I have to, you know, to be able to deliver that a tough message and give feedback when you need to. And you can still be a compassionate person who cares about the people that work in your organization. And so that that's the things that I've seen with those leaders that have that edge where they don't limit themselves where I'm this or that, where they say, I'm going to come to the table and I'm going to, I'm going to be this and that.

Rick: 24:18

Yeah, for me, I was thinking about a leader that I work with that. She made you feel like you worked with her. Not for her, right? It's this is our work. She even said it. This is our work. These are the things that we need to get done. And you're not really working for me. We're working together to get these things done and just that perspective that she had making she made us feel like that we could get it accomplished because we were working on all of our problems, not just at your problem, but we will get these things solved. And each person playing their role. And making that thing, getting that thing done. Yeah, that's

Rick2: 25:04

fantastic.

Rick: 25:06

Rick, you you've listed quite a few characteristics, some different qualities. I'd like you to share a little bit more with us about how people can be effective as leaders. We coaches three. We believe all leaders should take a leadership coach approach that that's the most effective way to be a leader. But what advice would you give to someone who maybe they're new in leadership, and they're developing their edge, or they've been in leadership for a while, and they need to sharpen their edge? What would you recommend they do to either develop or sharpen their edge? Yeah

Rick2: 25:40

great question. Again, this could, we could talk a long time about this particular topic. I think the first thing that that comes to mind, Kevin, is, Leadership is hard. So if you're a new leader and you think, oh boy, I've just been you know, promoted to be the boss now be careful what you ask for. It is hard. Leadership is not a position. It is a, a state of being, even seasoned leaders need to remind themselves that it's not easy and oftentimes taps into parts of ourselves that we, that we don't have full confidence about. But we're just, we're human like the rest of them. So, so, so one is recognize how hard it is. Two, self reflect, realize that you're not going to be good at everything. Notice things. Notice what's going on with your people. Notice what's going on with your company. Notice what's going on with anything that has to do with what might prevent people from being mobilized around what's most important, getting those things done. So, so some of these things are about don't assume, you know, verify stuff. We all know that that old adage about don't assume we'll go into that, but, but verify stuff just because someone says something doesn't mean it's true. Feedback invited. I think leaders who some of the best ones that I've talked about were open to feedback. You know, tell me, you know, if I'm getting it wrong, tell me. And You still can decide whether or not you're going to do anything with that feedback. I think good leaders decide which is the feedback that would literally be helpful. But be open to feedback. Appreciate others contributions. People work hard and they're trying to get it right. No one ever comes to work in the morning saying, I'm going to do, I'm going to screw everything up today. Or I'm going to buy the face of everything. People want to come and, do what's right. Now, some people aren't willing or able to do it, you know, to the extent we want to, but, but I don't think anybody comes to work with the idea of trying to, to throw a wrench in the works when they contribute, appreciate them and help, help them build confidence in the things that maybe they're not quite so effective with. don't settle for mediocrity. It's horrible. I mean, we all, we've all seen organizations, maybe been in organizations where some people are just, they're okay with, with mediocrity. It can't be okay. You know, maybe, maybe there are times when everybody, you know, takes a little breather. Okay. I admit I've done it. Right. But in the long haul, mediocrity isn't That doesn't mean you expect perfection, but, not settling for mediocrity. I think that's what I see many people in leadership positions do. They're afraid of the HR systems. They're afraid of the performance appraisal process. They're afraid that I can't, we can't get rid of somebody, or I can't promote somebody, or I can't So, you know, think out of the box a little bit. I mean, you know, talk, become friends with the HR people. I know that's hard to do sometimes being a recovering HR person myself. I think that the bottom line of all of that is. Communication is vital and, and communication is two way. I, I look at communication as a process. Communication isn't just sending out a memo or telling somebody or whatever. Communication is a process that if I were talking to Debbie and I wanted to bring out a message, I am then responsible for, for ensuring to some level that Debbie got the message the way I intended it. So you ask questions. Where you follow up by looking at their actions, too many leaders just just put an edict out there and assume that it's done. it's a path to the horrors as far as I'm concerned. We don't read minds. Joanne, I may have told you in our conversation, out of those 8 billion people on the planet, there's only one that I know who reads minds. That's my wife. Don't ask me how she does it, but she, but she reads my mind. I don't know what it is, but no one else reads minds. And so we have to be able to ask questions. We have to be able to, to understand, reflect back, check it every now and then because people are constantly getting new information that can affect things. And then finally, I think the advice is have a sense of humor, you know, smile every now and then. I, I think those are a couple of things, my short list of about, about 80 things.

Rick: 30:11

Well, thanks for the abbreviated version. We look forward to the extended version.

Debby: 30:16

I love that. And I think it goes back to knowing yourself. I was facilitating a workshop with a group of leaders today. And at the end of it, one of the leaders said, he said, you know, I've always known I'm introverted. And he said, but what I, what I kind of had an aha today is people can't read my mind. So I have to communicate what I'm thinking instead of just thinking they should know this stuff, right? And so he had this aha of sometimes I need to communicate more and repeat a message or give people information instead of just assuming that they'll figure it out or that they already know those things. I think that's really important.

Rick2: 30:56

No, that's a great point. You know, we're, we're, we're accustomed to thinking, I've seen the whole companies that, that basically, you know, have placards on the wall that say we hire great people and do great things. Okay. Maybe so, but can they, will they mobilize around what's most important for this organization?

unknown: 31:12

If you

Rick2: 31:13

just hear somebody who's smart and they they're not able to get something done, that doesn't mean they're a bad person. Or failure, it just may mean that it's not not right. And to your other point, you know, I think people who tend to be more introverted, which, believe it or not, I do, are people who are very inward thinking. That's not real conducive for a lot of people knowing what's on my mind. So I have to, to be willing to put myself out there a little bit. If you're an introverted leader and you're not willing to do that, I would say it's going to be a. Very difficult challenge for you. But that doesn't mean you can't be an introverted leader and be very good at it. You know, there are an awful lot of ways that individual can connect with people in ways that get, get important stuff done.

Debby: 32:01

Great point. So Rick, when we started our podcast, Joanne had shared that you are always moving forward. You're always on to the next thing and learning. So what is next for you? And what is one piece of advice that you'd have for others who may be in a similar, similar place that you are?

Rick2: 32:20

Well, I think first and foremost, I decided that in my next life, I want to be Jake from State Farm. I thought that that might get everybody's attention here. He has a cool life. I mean, he's out there meeting all these superstars, etc. Actually I am going to probably this year declare full retirement. That doesn't mean I won't ever do anything again that that involves coaching or whatever, but I'm not going to. Make myself as as out there as I have over the last 44 years now. It's been a lot less in the last five years than it was for the 39 years before that. But I, I really do want to focus some time on uh, the 3G or the 4Gs. So I, I, I lost a G there on my 4Gs. My wife and I have some travel plans. We're going to take our first Viking cruise on the Rhine River in 2025. And we're going to go out to a concert in at Red Rocks this summer. I know that I know me well enough to know that I remain curious about so many aspects of leadership. I get very heavily involved in, in some of my neighborhood activities. Much to my momentary chagrin at times, but that's what I do. So professionally, I, it's probably going to involve winding down a little bit. And personally, we'll just have to see where it goes, see where the circumstances lead. And I think I've I'm off to a decent start on it.

Debby: 33:45

That's wonderful. And it feels like I feel like I'm talking to a lot of people who are getting ready for that transition and and kind of gearing up. So you being a learner and a coach and all that great stuff. Any viewpoints, any tips on maybe things they could be thinking about or things to get ready to help them with that same transition. Maybe that you're getting ready to go through.

Rick2: 34:10

if I was going to give anybody one piece of advice about. Preparing to retire it is make sure that your financial house is in order. I remember my favorite uncle who's still alive at age 94 many, many years ago told me, he said, you need to put money in your 401k and keep putting it in and don't stop. I, I just remember that conversation. There are people who are finding themselves woefully behind the when it comes to being able to enjoy it. I'm not talking about doing extravagant things. I'm just talking about the usual stuff of having to pay bills and do some things that they want to do. I, I very much ground that into my children's head and I, I think it's working.

unknown: 34:56

I

Rick2: 34:56

think they're not moving back in. They may not know that, but and But, but I think that's the number one thing I would do. And second is, again, like, like a leader who has leadership, pay attention to yourself. What are the things you like to do, don't like to do? And, and recognize the changes from time to time. Be flexible. Life doesn't happen in a particular order other than birth and death. And you know, everything in between is kind of negotiable and, and enjoy it along the way. If it's not meeting someone else's standards, that's too bad. It's not your, their life. It's yours. those are some of the. off the cuff kind of thoughts about advice for people who are you know, preparing for retirement, which I think starts at about age 23. But it's, you have the holy smokes moment at age 45 or so. And and you start making sure, you know, that we're, we're doing what we can to to delay a little bit of gratification to make sure that We have accomplished what we want to. I had a money planner one time. This has been quite a few years ago, you know, and he, he said to me, I've got great news for you. He said you're not going to run out of money until you're 95. And I said, that's not good enough. I had a, I have two grandparents that lived in 97. What am I going to do? No, it's not good enough. So anyway, a lot of work done to get us to the point where, you know, it's not I'm not buying a yacht anytime soon or, or a private airplane, but it is something very important that I think we owe to family. Be able to sustain ourselves.

JoAnn: 36:34

We really appreciate that advice. Maybe you should think about writing a book after you retire. Well, we'll advertise it on coaches for you. So keep me posted.

Rick2: 36:45

Yeah. No, I wrote a book. It's actually a workbook that goes along with career coaching and it was. Kind of a pain in the neck. Much to, to people's dismay, writing books does not earn you a lot of money so maybe there's some gratification in there. And again, I don't make it want to make it sound like all I'm doing is focusing on money. But if I sit there, I'll obsess over certain things and my perfectionist comes out and, and I'm not sure I really want to spend the time grading my own paper. So, I probably won't write a book.

JoAnn: 37:20

Well said, Rick, well said. Well, we're quickly running out of time and we always ask our guests at least these three questions before they leave us. And the first one is, what is a book that you think a leader coach should read?

Rick2: 37:35

Oh, only one. Let me, let me quickly I'll, I've got a few that I think are really important. I mentioned the author, Patrick Lencioni. I think he does some brilliant work in very readable fashion that is absorbable. And particularly the book, Five Dysfunctions of a Team. And the second book is the four obsessions of an extraordinary executive. I mentioned that one earlier. Those should be must reads for any leader who tries to gain an edge. A third book, I guess it is that I would read is, is one that's a little different. It's called Extreme Ownership. It was written by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin. They're two former Navy SEALs. And like it or not they, they've been leaders in the Iraq war and, you know, leadership is not a nice thing to do. People die if you don't get it right. And there are an awful lot of lessons I think that can trans translate there. So, so that's another one. And then the one I like, I think as far as for, for leaders who would like to be better coaches, which I think is a great thing is a book by Michael Bungay Stanier is called the leadership habit or the, excuse me, the coaching habit. It's a fantastic book. It surfaces once again the power of questions and that leaders can be coaches while they lead and allow people to kind of grow and solve their own problems and not have their solutions spoon fed to them. That's

JoAnn: 38:58

great. So what question have you been asked that gave you pause made you think maybe a little differently or deeper or in a different direction.

Rick2: 39:09

Oh I actually I have to say the one is what's next for me because That's a hard one to answer. So it's a very open ended one. The other things I can talk about forever, but that one is always a tough one. What do we want to do next? I think it gave me some pause. I'm constantly trying to think and recognize when I'm, I'm latching onto something that I hadn't anticipated and, and Hopefully I can uh, so it doesn't lead to clear answers all the time. That, that's, that's the one that gave me some pause.

JoAnn: 39:41

Well, I can tell you what's next is the last question. So, what is your word on coaching?

Rick2: 39:49

My word on coaching would be improvised. I was told by my coaching guru years ago when I was in training for the professional certified coach certification. He said anybody who's in coaching or consulting ought to go and take a course in improvisational comedy. And we all said, what, what he said, if you've ever watched, you know, show like whose line is it anyway, you realize that an improv comedy, you're, you have to take what's given to you and build on it. He said, that's what you do as a coach or a consultant. If you go, you know, with the punchline already to a joke, no, one's gonna, gonna like it. So improvise. No situation's going to be the same. So there may be some that are similar, but I've always just liked the word improvise. Particularly since I, I heard that years ago. So I think that's the word that I would probably throw in there.

JoAnn: 40:46

That's a great word. We've come to the end of our time Debbie, Kevin, and Rick, thank you so much. It's always a pleasure to work with you guys. And thank you to our audience for listening today. And check out this podcast. And there's some more out there for this season. And there's other seasons, so we encourage you to listen to them. Also, a reminder that we have a book, The Word on Coaching. You can find it on Amazon. com. Order one for you and for somebody else, we really would appreciate that. So until next time, that's the word on coaching.