Grief, Fantasy, And Letting Go | Wisdom Dialogues | January 4, 2026

Grief doesn’t start with a story—it starts as a feeling that we rush to explain. From three quiet days of no notifications to a New Year’s dance-floor synchronicity, we unpack how loss, sweetness, envy, and scarcity rise first, and how the mind stitches them to convenient narratives. When we flip that script and simply watch, patterns surface on their own: resistance to being seen, the tug of fantasy, the fear of not-enough. The relief isn’t in fixing feelings—it’s in relaxed, honest attention.

We go deep on relationships as living mirrors. Instead of making a confession to the person we think caused our pain, we explore a gentler path: stop, look, listen. Choose who you’re looking with—ego or Spirit—and let the next step reveal itself. Money becomes a neutral symbol, not a verdict. Scarcity loosens when trust grows. Timelines and choices feel less linear and more like threads you can stop gripping. And yes, we talk sex: why fantasy numbs presence, how grasping narrows awareness, and how real connection expands when we drop performance and return to the senses. Annoyance, “robotic” moments, missed strokes—all become invitations to laugh, breathe, and reconnect.

This isn’t bypass. It’s practical forgiveness that you can use anywhere: at a coffee shop when the machine breaks, in bed when the mind chases an outcome, or when envy whispers that someone else got the life you wanted. We share the “succubus” dynamic that often hijacks fresh openings, and how remembering a single purpose—letting Spirit repurpose everything—keeps you anchored. The takeaway is simple and bold: every upset is a doorway. Relax, notice, forgive, and let joy return. If this lands, subscribe, share with a friend who needs it, and leave a review telling us which pattern you’re ready to retire.

Chapters

• 0:00 Opening And Quiet Days Of Mind Watching
• 6:00 Loss, Grief, And The Story After
• 13:00 Spiritual Light Versus The Body Overlay
• 20:00 Relationships As Mirrors And Patterns
• 28:30 Timelines, Relaxation, And Trust
• 36:00 Scarcity, Money Fears, And Surrender
• 46:30 Synchronicities And Releasing Aversion
• 54:00 Not Alone, Pets, And Inner Companionship
• 1:00:00 Stop, Look, Listen: Undoing Patterns
• 1:07:00 The Succubus Dynamic And Holy Purpose
• 1:17:00 Sex Without Fantasy And True Connection
• 1:28:00 Grasping, Opposites, And Sensory Presence
• 1:38:00 Annoyance, Projection, And Miracles In Bed
• 1:47:00 Identity, Clamoring, And Forgiveness
• 1:51:00 Closing, Resources, And ACIM Invite

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:05

Aloha and welcome to Wisdom Dialogues with Hope Johnson coming to you from Lake Watcombe, Washington. Woo! Yes, yes. I am so excited. So uh let's see, when was the last time we were together? Wednesday, and then Thursday, Friday, Saturday. I had no notifications, quiet days. Um, and I was so uh I knew I knew I knew something was gonna come up. I could tell something was gonna come up. And I shared this with Natalie too, and I also shared it with Orba, that there was some kind of resistance to going back to Hawaii, even you know, out there in May, uh, because I felt uh a sense of uh like still attraction to my friend. Let's say attraction to my friend. Um, and I felt like I didn't want to be around him because he would know that, he would see that and it would be obvious, you know. So uh so I go, hmm, that's interesting. And whenever something like that comes up, it's just an opportunity to look at it, like really look at it. It's not a matter of, oh, why am I this and that, this and that, why am I still feeling this way? Any amount of time, anything like that. Um, there's a pattern that's unseen underneath it. That's all it means. It's not personal. Now, a lot of people, what they'll tend to do is want to get all nostalgic and want to call a person up and tell them, oh, I feel this way about you. But see, the feelings are all just passing, they're all just passing by, they don't really mean anything. So uh I had the inspiration to be quiet for some days and just watch my unconscious mind. Actually, initially, I thought I was gonna shock myself into unconscious mind because I was reading this book about it, but then I go, wait a second. We were just reading in chapter two. You don't need to learn through any kind of fear or anything like that, just chill out, right? So I just chilled out in the silence. Um, I took one cold shower, but I actually enjoyed that. I said, maybe I'll do that again. I do tend to wake up hot, anyways. So cold shower is good, but uh yeah, so first there's this idea, this thought, this feeling sensation that I'm resistant to being where he is because I would be too transparent and he would see something. And my experience of him thus far is it just gets taken as some kind of an ego game where it's it's time to, oh, let's uh see how we can use this to up uh uh uphold an image kind of thing. So I go, okay, let's look at that. Um, because there must be some kind of pattern because it must be upheld by fear, otherwise, it would be completely comfortable to go anywhere. So uh, you know, the first part of advice that kind of came up um was you know, something about uh something's wrong. Something must be wrong. And of course, you know, that's always the ego. Nothing is wrong. And you know why nothing is wrong? Because the Holy Spirit can repurpose anything the ego makes. That's why. So going in with awareness, first of all, that there's nothing wrong, and then being really quiet, not getting notifications. So there's not the usual distractions. Normally I have a lot of notifications every day where people are reaching out to me and we're having conversations. I talk back, they talk back, I talk back, they talk back. So none of that. Um, really a lot of just sitting around doing nothing, just freaking kicking back is all. And uh so what I noticed, first of all, was just in allowing things to come up was a sense of losing, like a sense of loss. And I'm like, oh, okay. And then let myself feel that. And I actually experienced myself crying, which is kind of like a rarity for me, but you know, I'm not trying to keep it a rarity. I thought it was really awesome, you know? It was like, oh, and those thoughts are allowed to come to the surface, they're hitting emotional cords, and all of that can also be so useful. The more intense the upset feeling is, in fact, that's coming up on its own. I'm saying you don't have to do anything to bring it up, but be quiet. You know, normally we're distracting ourselves all the time with thoughts or things or people or whatever, and uh don't see these things. So it's like being alert takes having some quiet time to observe what's crossing the mind, right? So there's this low-level sense of loss being projected onto my body's energy field all day long. And and you know, it's coming from the unconscious mind. And the deeper you go into being released from patterns, the more you see until there's no more, you know, or you know, it's not even that that there's no more, it's just that uh your mind gets purified to a point so much that you just don't even see this world anymore, this imaginary world. You see the actual world. Uh let's say you do see this world, but not the overlay that you put on it, meaning no bodies, like the way we perceive them. Let's say uh you must have a body, but it can't be this one. You know, it's like it's like God created you in his image. That image must be some sort of body, but it's not this one because it's not, and you know what, and then at the same time, it is this one because this is overlaying it. So that's fun. Uh, you know, the skin and the bones and all that kind of stuff. Uh that's all just overlaying what it is. We've these we have these eyes that we invented that we train to see this kind of matter, right? And not trained to see spiritually, spiritual light. So without uh without spiritual light, without the ability to see the spiritual light, all we see is shadows. See the the ability to see the spiritual light is coming, and it's coming through our seeing that is achieved through relationship. Everything is relationship, uh, uh people-to-people relationship, super important, super important. They're all being orchestrated, everyone's doing everything right for everyone. Uh it's all so, so perfect. It's it's amazing how it plays out. So I noticed I was like, oh, so there's fantasy. There's still fantasy playing around in there, right? So I let myself feel all of that, you know, this sense of loss, grief, basically grieving was occurring. And you know, that's not over any particular thing, really. It's like this, you guys. It's more like this. The grief shows up first, the fantasy shows up first, and then you're given a story. It's flipped. It looks like the story is the cause. So this thing was totally coming up for me to see. It was amazing. Uh, I went out with Natalie and her boyfriend for New Year's Eve. We had an amazing time. We were dancing, live band, bar, or although I didn't find myself drinking because I took ecstasy and said instead. Woo-hoo! So, yay! Um, so so while I was there, I met a woman and a new person I didn't seem to have ever seen before. And she was she was uh dancing around, we were both dancing around. Then after a little while, she came up to me and she goes, I know who you are. And I'm like, What? And she goes, I saw you dancing at Uncle Robert's with the most beautiful man, and and uh and and you guys were just so beautiful and so in love, and she was just like melting. She's seems like tears were gonna come to her eyes, and she uh gave me the sweetest New Year's blessing, the sweetest heartfelt New Year's blessing, and I felt the sweetness, I just felt that sweetness in my heart, you know, and uh and and then I noticed too within those three days that that sweetness that's being brought up is also part of it because where there's a sweetness with the story, it's it hurts your mind. So I notice that I recognize that I go, oh, okay, the sweetness is trying to tell me there's a story for the sweetness, and apparently a story I don't have anymore. That was the true tell. It's like, oh my goodness, of course, that's my sweetness, like all sweetness uh that's being projected, that's actually coming from the source. Nothing leaves its source, which is the mind. See? So first there's the sense of sweetness, and then there's a story about it, and then there's sadness, and then under that, oh my goodness, grief. Whoa, that was great though. I loved it. I cried like three times and unexpected. One of them I was like leaving a salon all three days, or two of the three days, I went over and got like red light therapy, salon kind of stuff, you know. Um, and I'm coming out of the salon and I just like go start tearing up. It's kind of like reminds me of Vipassana. It does. It reminds me of how I just started tearing up in Vipassana, and then all this stuff started coming out. And and I see like uh fantasies of uh the perfect someone, the perfect person, the perfect partner, that kind of stuff coming up, and uh recognizing it as fantasy because here's the thing: we are always one in union with one another. There is no form of relationship in a dream that's ever gonna satisfy you. They are only, only, only for seeing the patterns. Why see the patterns? Because you're playing patterns unconsciously. Okay, and when you see what they are, you get to recognize, especially, you know, if you can sense their tone. There's a tone in the energy sense. When you're sensing a tone that you're playing into, it that could be halted immediately when you see. That's why when I get to play something out that's unfamiliar to me, like this pattern was unfamiliar, at least in recent times. I had seen it before, but I was in no way equipped to see through it. All I could do at that time was get the fuck away from it before I went insane on it. So uh, so when you know something like this comes up unfamiliar for me, I am like on high alert just to see, okay, what's going on here? Because these are not personal patterns. There's nothing personal at all about them. They are patterns that have been playing through in humanity for many, many, you could say millions of lifetimes and are playing uh through on what you would call other dimensions, which are actually other timelines occurring now. Okay. All timelines are occurring now, and all timelines affect other timelines. So any timeline where you're waking up, you're waking up for one, you're waking up the world. So uh, you know, you may have, I don't know what the number is, but I get the sense it could be thousands to a million different timelines going at once. Where this thing went in this direction. It's basically the same life, it's the same uh nonsense, meaningless, boring life that turns into eternal life eventually. Uh, you know, it's like it's taking uh these different paths. That's what all the concurrent lives are. It's like, oh, I wish I would have seen it like this. Okay, there's another life. You're laying out, right? It's like it just keeps on going. And it's manifest as if time is on a line, but time is actually recursive. It's curve, it's curving around and also upward. By upward, what I mean by that is going toward full full awakening, always being pulled toward awakening. Uh, so you don't have to do anything about it. But here's the thing: there is kind of something to do about it. I'm saying you don't want to do anything about it, but there's kind of something to do about it that's not that's not really a thing. It's relax because it's going your way already. It's already going your way. You know what how you know how that looks? You know what relaxation looks like. It looks like whatever it is that's arising for you, that's perfect. That's what it looks like. Oh, that's perfect. That's exactly what I need because that's what I'm gonna use right now to see through habits of unconscious pain. So the next time this thing rolls around, it's gonna be a lot more fun. Number one. Number two, who knows? The patterns may have been healed. If not, they get played out again, but lighter and lighter and lighter each time. Each time they're seeing we're going toward more like happy playground kind of healing rather than rough resistance kind of stuff. I mean, I feel like even uh what I uh what I experienced with my friend was so, so gentle. I mean, when I speak of the patterns, I'm speaking of the patterns that are really tough for people. You know, people are actually like uh uh like like slapping each other around and doing wild shit like that, you know. Uh this was extremely gentle. I'm just super sensitive to disrespect, for instance. Um, I, you know, I can't tolerate it. I can uh it was funny because there was a wisdom dialogue uh right before this whole thing began, where I was talking facetiously, but I definitely I know to pay attention even when I'm talking facetiously. Uh, but I said something like, you know what? Why tolerate disrespect? Someone was uh talking about being disrespected in their relationship and the sex wasn't even good. And I said, why tolerate disrespect? It might be one thing if the sex is good, right? So then I get this the very same experience. It's just a joke, it's just a fun joke, and it's a game, and you know, we're really having fun and playing together. And me and him are super sweet together. Our interactions are sweet. We don't have many of them, they're few, uh, but our interactions are sweet. It's not like anyone's telling anyone off or telling anyone they're bad or anything like that. It's like, hey, man, for one thing, I don't need to interact with him ever again to have a shitload of material. And and you know what, the aversion to it completely went away. But that was also met with a lot of gentleness, right? It was like to myself, it was like this. It's okay if if when the time comes and you're still feeling like this, you can just go somewhere else, right? I even looked into going to Sri Lanka, which actually looks pretty good. I might go there. Uh, but the trepidation about being around him, see, the effect of uh of seeing, watching the unconscious mind and forgiving illusions there is that that that trepidation about going basically home, someone else is over there, that goes away. Right? It's like all these stories that it's wrapped up in, those just fall away. And you know, uh I know, like uh my friends are telling me, hope, hope, some, you know, some of my friends, uh I got I got people on it's so funny that when I'm doing these talks, it's like I got people who drop off because they go, Oh, she went too shallow, she wasn't high enough in the clouds, and other people that come in because okay, now she's speaking more like embodiment and stuff like that. You guys, it's both, okay. We are uh not uh we are we are not these bodies, we are observing the patterns that these bodies are being played out from high, high above them. Okay, that's the truth of the matter. And also the patterns that we're observing are revealing what needs to be forgiven. Okay, so if we're trying to hide from them, trying to achieve that higher level, uh quote unquote, stay at that higher level and don't engage any illusions, you know, may might be the way to say it, then still the patterns are withdrawing to the unconscious mind again, so they can gain energy and project in the future, which is the present moment really, uh with way more intensity. Until it gets your attention. Until it gets your attention. That's how it is. It keeps doing it. Until it gets your attention. So uh so look, this is not uh people take this in a way like it's trying to make someone wrong. Guys, none of this shit even happened. Nothing happened. These bodies are not here, they're not real, nothing happened. Okay. And the fact that nothing happened doesn't mean you shouldn't look at the patterns. What it means is you can safely look at the patterns when you're ready, when you're ready. Spiritual bypassing, okay, that's a thing. I know I've done it. It's a phase, it's not bad. All right, it's not a bad thing, it's a phase. It's where you have said, okay, I I see it. Maybe you've had an experience, maybe you've just done a lot enough study and meditation or whatever to recognize the highest, highest truth is true. Still, you're gonna be annoyed by the patterns until you look at them. Uh, this is what Jesus calls the unconscious, aka unwatched mind. Okay, it's only unconscious because it's unwatched. People are see are seeking comfort in feeling. Do not seek comfort in feeling. Let comfort arise naturally from your relaxation. Okay. So that's what I noticed. Like when the grief thought comes up, immediately there's also a rush to no, no, no, no, no, this isn't good. For one thing, it makes ugly ass wrinkles on your forehead. Right? We don't want those. We want to try to keep our face in a way that's gonna be pretty. So, uh so uh of course I saw that thought. That's an ego thought, of course, right? We don't have to maintain our body at all. That happens automatically. We need to use the experience. I'm like, okay, grief. All right, let's see it. And it was great. The thoughts just came really fast, all on their own. It's like, oh, oh, oh, oh my goodness, oh, that's so sad. And then uh once they have a chance to play out and the feeling is felt, oh my gosh, so much. It's it goes by so fast, it doesn't even linger. Although it came up three times, which is awesome. You know, it doesn't mean that it's not gonna keep coming up a little bit, but you guys, you can totally handle this. Here's how I look at the crying too. It's acting, it's acting, you're acting something out, even when I'm all by myself, I'm just acting to myself. You're just acting something out. It's not true. There's never anything to be crying about. That that doesn't mean that you shouldn't cry, though. It's good, it's like catharsis, but you don't have to make it happen either. Like this wasn't like me making it happen. I was just having spa time, really, and super chill time too. Uh, one thing I noticed this weekend as well is it was it what is it, a weekend? Well, it's still the weekend. Uh another thing doesn't even matter because there's no because there's doesn't even matter because there's no time. It just like comes up. Anyways, uh during those days was that even things that are therapeutic, relaxing, like going and getting light therapy, um, or block therapy, or any kind of guided meditation, breathing practice, going in the jacuzzi, excuse me, going in the jacuzzi, going in the sauna, those kinds of things. It's all still activity. So, what I got this weekend was to just sit there. No looking for anything, no trying to think about anything. Just sit there, look out the window, look at the lake, look at the ripples on the lake, feel the sense of uh energy flowing through the body's energy field, right? If that's coming up, don't try to get any sensation, right? It's simple, eyes closed, eyes open, leaning back, laying down, lots of that, and that's where mind watching is really easy. It just comes right, the stuff just comes right up because you're in the silence, you're not distracting yourself even with an activity. And let's talk about activities a little bit, right? Okay, so say you're taking a sauna. The ego thought is, oh, this sauna is good for me, right? The sauna isn't good or bad for you, it's neutral. Okay, there's no body, that's why. It's it's useful. The sauna, the experience of having a sauna is useful to the ego and it's useful to the Holy Spirit. It's a matter of which voice you're listening to. The Holy Spirit's voice will keep telling you that the sauna doesn't even matter. Are you enjoying it? Right? Are you getting joy in this moment? Are you enjoying uh the seeming relaxing effects, which is really your mind relaxing? Note that if your mind is racing 90 miles an hour, no measure of relaxation is gonna help you. You know, that's a choice that you make to be here now. You don't necessarily have to be in a sauna. And here's the thing, too, you guys. Let's say you're totally you're hearing this and you're totally overt to just sitting around doing nothing. And you're going, you know what? Normally I'm running around working all day and doing a bunch of shit. A sauna is a major downshift for me. Great, that's where you're at. You go to that. And really, here's the thing: you don't have a choice in whether you take a sauna. You don't even have a choice in it. It's allowing, look, as busy as you seem to be in your life, if you seem to be busy in your life, as busy as you seem to be in your life, you got there through thinking. And guess what? Undoes it. Still thinking, right? It's still thinking. Yes. And watch what happens when thoughts get unlound, when you sit in the silence and you realize, oh wow, oh, there's fear of not having enough money. Oh, what does that feel like? You might find yourself bawling over that one. All right, there's fear of uh uh, the illusion isn't gonna demonstrate to me that I'm sustained by the love of God. The illusion won't demonstrate that to me. Well, the illusion, it's not the illusion's job to demonstrate that to you. The illusion is actually reflecting secret, unwatched thoughts of scarcity in the unconscious mind. So here's how you approach it when the thought arises, holy shit, I don't have enough money for let's say rent, or let's say to keep my car going so I could keep doing my job. Holy shit. It seems like you're being punished, right? I know, I know. See, I've been through that. It seems like you're being punished, but you're not being punished at all. You're being blessed, you're getting the opportunity to see what unconscious, habitual thoughts are holding to you, holding you to this repetitive experience as if there's not enough money to sustain your life in relative comfort as well. Not just sustain your life, but sustain it in relative comfort. So you don't have to be looking for the where's the next thing that I have to do to be, you know. It's like really, guys. I was watching a sitcom one time. I'm telling you, these sit these sitcoms are great. I have not, I do not get much TV at all, but I was visiting my mom and they had this sitcom on. I think it was called Two and a Half Men. And what I saw was brilliant, okay? There's I think there's a lot of conditioning in these things too, but stuff gets through that's from directly from the Holy Spirit, right? So there's these two brothers, and it seems like they are not gonna have enough money. It really seems like to make their rent, I think was the story. So the whole show is a half-hour show with commercials. One brother scrambling around trying to make money, the other one's in the easy chair, and he's just like, ah, it'll show up. No worries, it'll show up. And this was just like one thread inside of all the stories. This is like one thread in there, you know, just to show a contrast between these brothers. And um, by the end of the show, something just magically shows up that it that gets them completely through. And the and the one brother's like, yep, I told you something would show up. And the other one was just like, God, exhausted.

SPEAKER_03: 30:27

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02: 30:30

See, it's just giving you, you know, you know, where you see, okay, I need to run around, I need to make it happen. Watch the thoughts that are running that behavior. The thoughts running that behavior around are I have to sustain myself, I have to do, do, do, do, do to sustain myself. I gotta figure out where the money is coming from. You guys, money is based on nothingness, meaninglessness. Okay, it doesn't mean anything. You don't really even need money. It's your idea that you need money that makes it seem like there even is money. That's what's fun. When you see through this world, you see that the money does not matter, it really doesn't. Okay. I know it seems to be, but what seems to be is really an effect of what you thought in the first place. Hello, hello. You sweetie. Yeah. Uh so it's funny because timing is great. I love the timing. So we'll go back to the story of uh of the grief and loss, and uh, and uh really it's victory. So uh so there's interesting synchronicities. First, there's this sense of, oh my gosh, I don't want to be around him. That doesn't sound good. And it's like, oh, I'm uh I'm looking at that thought. Um and then it came to me to have a three-day retreat where I don't get any notifications, and then right before that, out uh out at New Year's, uh, someone recognizes me and brings up the whole thing.

SPEAKER_03: 32:25

So that was you talking to yourself.

SPEAKER_02: 32:27

Yes, yes, it's me. Thank you, Natalie. Thanks for that clarification. Yes, it's me talking to myself. Let's it's good uh to keep on clarifying that it's bringing up the synchronicities, right? It's showing. Um, and then not only that, uh there was a text from him as soon as I got home. I didn't open it or anything because I was going into silence, but I saw the header and I'm like, oh, okay, there are lots of synchronicities happening here. I see the theme of these three silent days arising right now. Yeah. So uh so then I'm I'm like perceiving these thoughts of loss and stuff like that and being released of them. And then wouldn't you know it? A fun character right next door the very next day, uh, to complete the synchronicity. I don't know, there might be more, comes knocking on my door. Uh, young dude wants to dance with me and bring over wine and hang out. I'm like, wow. Uh, you know, uh, no need to put any uh uh what is it, profiles up on a dating app. Although I did do that four times. I put them up and took them back down. I like to experience experiment with things uh manually. I don't know, this is the right word manually. I don't know, uh uh viscerally. So uh yeah, I don't know which ones they were, but uh I made a separate profile for each one because each time I just felt different. So I just like put a different uh I had one conversation with one person briefly. He said my uh my profile made him feel feel calm. I thought that was so sweet. Anyways, I just deleted them one after the other because it was like, oh no, I don't need any of that kind of stuff. Uh I was realizing, uh, and you know, the the thought of doing it came with, man, I don't I don't seem to have this much that much money right now. Uh maybe if I go on dates, and dates are fun anyways, so maybe if I go on dates, I can get some uh free meals, you know. Uh going, hey, I like to go on dates if you like to supply free meals, something like that. But once I got in there, I'm like, you know what? I don't need any free meals actually. I'm really stoked just staying here by myself. I love uh just eating stuff that I make. You know, I like I like all my ingredients. So um I've been staying home and uh and oh Natalie took me out. Thank you, Natalie. Natalie took me out on New Year's Eve date. She took me out to sushi. Yeah. So anyone anyone that wants to take come over here and take me out to eat, I'm all open for that. Even though I do uh I do enjoy uh cooking at home. It just it just occurred to me. I'm like, oh yeah, I find myself in town uh just about every day because I've been going over there for some light treatments and um I just come home to eat, yeah. Yeah, it's fun to just let things show up too. That's what I noticed. I'm like, man, I don't really want to spend my time like uh trying to see someone on the internet when they uh they'll just show up right at my door, and it's like right here, right at my door. Hey, I am hey, do you like wine? Yes, I do. All right, I'm coming over with wine. Playmates everywhere, DoorDash. Yeah, yeah, you can order DoorDash too. Yeah, so um, whew things have just been revealing themselves quickly. Yes. Uh I just want to say I love it when a pattern is coming up. I love it, and you know what? I can't help but speak it out. I'll even be like, oh, whoa, that just came out, okay, because I don't try to contort myself to be a spiritual image for anyone, right? So something comes out, and then I actually see it when it comes out. I go, oh, there's something going on there. How fun, right? And I was sharing with my friend. Yeah, the last thing uh that it that it was calling me to do was share that with the person that it seems to be about. See, but the ego wants you to do that. Definitely, like call that person up, make a bunch of bunch of drama, talk about it's hard, it hurts, I miss you, all that kind of stuff. And it's not true. That's not true. What's coming up is something to see in the unconscious mind. It actually doesn't have anything to do with the relationship. The truth of every relationship, the true components of every relationship is connection, freedom. Uh, it's alive, it's fun, it's light. Okay. Uh this this this kind of heavy talking patterns, all that stuff doesn't mean a thing. Uh, all it's doing is saying, hey, look over here. Be alert here, be alert to this. Let it come easily, though. See, this is coupled with relaxation and ease. Coupled with relaxation and ease. That means you're not trying to force an awakening, it's gonna arise by itself, it'll arise on its own, right? I mean, after a lot of years of learning to see like this, for me, it's really easy for me to see. Oh, what's being called of me here is quiet. That's all. And the patterns present themselves in the silence. They come up, they prove it, they they present themselves right there in the silence.

SPEAKER_03: 39:04

Can you speak to this girlfriend you and your friend Ruben and Uncle Robert? Uh-huh. There was real connection.

SPEAKER_02: 39:20

There was real connection, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 39:22

So then you have witnesses. So then we have other fellow brothers who are witnessing, right?

SPEAKER_02: 39:28

Uh uh, there's they're witnessing a uh deep loving connection and sharing.

SPEAKER_03: 39:34

Yeah, yes, is that a real effect in the mind?

SPEAKER_02: 39:40

Yes, that is that's a real effect. Everything that comes from love has real effects and lasting effects, they're eternal. Okay, so and and it benefits everyone. That's why the people who would see it would be like, oh my goodness, they would be so touched. Like we've never. seen anyone in love like that. You know, so that's like like the uh that that sense of being touched like that is from seeing something that's really rare. It's really and you know what made it what made it rare and why it's really rare right now, I mean everything's changing. It's gonna go to where it's not rare. You know it's gonna it because because as as a consciousness there's an awakening happening. And so we're gonna go to where we don't cherish bodies. And that's really what was going on there what people were were witnessing um for a time at a time there was no cherishing bodies at all and we met there um because there was a there was just like a deep friendship based on mutual respect and also um we shared the purpose of awakening we really shared the purpose of awakening with which came with a lot of joy um we sat and had eye to eye contact for many hours uh delving into spirituality and you could just see the love that we shared for one another just pouring off of us it was obvious to everyone we just had so many uh people come up and and and express that to us and yes that's all all also happening from my perspective and all these other perspectives too apparently okay all love extended is real though and it has real effects and you know some of the real effects uh I'm sure play out in my mind as far as it's easy for me to extend forgiveness toward him it's so simple it you know in the moments where it feels like and I get the sense that I don't want to go back over there because he's cruising around there that's unforgiveness that's all and so it's a matter of seeing okay coming back to forgiveness but you know starting out with that guy didn't do anything but help me he's done nothing but been helpful the way that things are played out you know it's like he did his part it's like at the end of it it's like he takes his mask off and it's like ah I'm not that part I know you're not that part and thank you for doing that right and and each of us is is uh perceiving we're not really ourselves on a journey of awakening we're not we're watching it from outside of the timeline we're just watching it so allowing the awakening to just unfold naturally don't worry about where you are in it or try to judge where you are in it at all just in allowing it to unfold you're gonna see more and more it'll become easier to extend forgiveness I bet you never imagined that getting the sense that you would be uncomfortable in the same space as someone was unforgiveness. Right? That's all it is that's all it ever is there's something to forgive so like I said uh I came across fantasy okay there's still fantasy in there okay great it's not personal it's the unconscious mind okay uh so that gets uh that gets seen first and then there's grief oh there's grief oh it's so oh it's so heavy it's so sad oh it's okay it's okay it's okay and joy returns and that sense of trepidation about being in his space it's gone and you guys being in the unconscious mind you never know how much time is gonna pass before things just become unearthed too just let them come unearthed when they do don't worry about how far along you are being done or anything like that. Just let them come up again that's what the triggers are for to show you right you're never you're never meant to be uh having a sense of lack in any form lack of love lack of abundance lack of anything okay uh if you're perceiving that that's because you've been pursuing a thought in secret and when you're aware oh that's the only reason I keep getting this same experience let me see that thought or thoughts all right or patterns of thoughts let me see what they are how fun because when I see what they are I could be like that dude I think it was he was played by Charlie Sheen maybe um kicking back in the easy chair waiting for things to show up because they're always coming you know you can't help that things are going to be showing up and I know for me I've been having lots of alone time I've been loving it so much uh ever since Billy left I think it was around the 14th that he left of December I've had the place to myself pretty much except one person came and say stayed two nights and I have the place to my to myself until the 13th when my husband Tony and our 17 year old son show up for about nine days. Gota's coming over she's taking me on a road road trip apparently um she's got a van I'm sure it's tricked out she said it's her dad's van so I'm guessing it's pretty tricked out um warm for sure and uh what else oh melee Kai said she might be coming and then not to mention cute little dude next door so there seems to be activity picking up um and and that's always the case that's what I notice that's always the case there's never a time for me where I uh get the sense of loneliness that is not something for me like I need a body near me. What I notice is another body is always coming it will be soon um and I take that time to just be chilled out uh listening alone uh never really alone being you know it's kind of a misnomer too I'm glad that came out because it's kind of it's a it's a total misnomer actually to say alone means without another body around you but that's really you know that's that's what it what it means I think to people in the English language right so that's uh definitely one way to describe it but in the back of your mind just recognizing I'm not alone and another body doesn't give me company that's the other thing of the other body in the room the other body in the space doesn't even give me any company that's not how it is I'm only talking to myself okay uh what you have is a mirror let's say that what you have is a mirror when you have another body in the space so one way to look at it is it seem the to the mind it seems like you're alone because there's not another body uh but that's not the truth you're not alone that's why I don't need a pet right people get pets they're scared of being alone they go pee oh people always betray you they always uh deny you they always treat you like shit annoy you whatever it is I'll get a pet the pet's gonna love me unconditionally see it's a fun distraction I don't need that it's kind of like a crutch until you're ready to see that you're not alone yeah to me I don't feel like I need to be cleaning up after anyone see it's it's like it's like when you recognize you you're not alone so there's no loneliness is not true. You don't need a pet therefore you don't need more activity you don't need to be cleaning up after someone the pet namely I'm not saying it's wrong to have pets I mean some of you might be having pets because uh a different reason um but I'm uh you know just making observations there's a bunch of you that are like oh this fucking pet so let's say how do you get released from all these patterns let's go over how you get released from all these different kinds of patterns and you know no matter what kind of pattern it is it's really the same thing it's the same exact thing the process you could say if you want to call it a process even is the same uh you know what just popped into my head is a saying from when I was a Christian missionary and it was stop look and listen that applies here see this is this is how the patterns get undone recognize first here's something I don't want see so let me give you that as an example I'll give you two examples one of them is this sense like I don't want to go back home to Hawaii because I might see someone it might make me feel uncomfortable okay that is a thought that I do not want you know why because it limits me I'm not my power likewise holy shit I don't have enough money to pay for rent or the car or something same thing it's a thought isn't it a thought you do not want I don't want this okay good to know that's let's say that's the stopping stop wait a second I don't want this look right what is looking you're looking at the pattern now oh what's going on there's that thought oh have I thought that thought before sure as fuck have I guarantee you have uh uh here's another one to to describe why you feel this way look the feeling came first then the description the description and now in this scenario is money right that's the look maybe the stop part can be you stop and then you ask for help of who's gonna look with you okay I like it okay so uh so Natalie thank you for that Natalie she said maybe the stop part could be you stop and ask who's gonna look with you before you even look right okay this is something I don't want who am I gonna look at it with spirit or ego right see when you when you just automatically go into default you look with the ego which is not real looking at all okay so asking that's a good one Natalie uh who am I gonna look look with and then listening for the answer yeah isn't that fun stop look listen there was a song about it I don't remember the tune or anything but I remember the last part of it was or you're gonna get run over and it had to do with crossing the street that's right that was kind of like it was kind of like a paradox I think that's called a paradox I don't know maybe called something else uh but it had to do with it had like dual meaning had to do with crossing the street and also I may have just made that up probably did that it has to do with your patterns it was like yeah uh it just it just comes as needed apparently so here's another thing that came up oh my gosh I was so excited to see this so one pattern that was revealed to me uh that was being played out was this succubus I love that word that is so fun to say you ever heard that word Natalie uh it's like it's this dynamic that plays out and and and I remember seeing this when I was in uh the Christian missionary group there would actually be pictures of these they were always female forms and they would be these dark demonic creatures that would be on people trying to suck life out of them okay so what this dynamic is showing it's kind of it's a symbolic thing but it's pointing to something that's like a dynamic that's being played out no one's actually doing anything of course uh when I what I recognize is okay in the story there seemed to be this awakening for me where I was completely free of scarcity consciousness uh especially as it related to money okay it was just like gone I had no ambition um not that I was resisting it or anything I could just see that I didn't need it I could just see that I was sustained by the love of God and I could also see that I didn't need the illusion to reflect it back to me. That was just the it was it was just there. It was almost like it got written in my bones okay so when that opening occurred there was an immediately ooh attraction okay it seemed to be coming from him it's like ooh ooh and I grabbed that okay um that's common occurrence very common occurrence uh the the man uh or woman whatever it is is not sinister or evil in any way it is not like that at all okay uh it's just that there's an a there's there's this aura there's this light when the opening is fresh especially when it's fresh like that and it's not integrated it's like there's just this light right hasn't really been grounded yet. So uh the succubus dynamic is to attach to that light and grab it and get some of it for itself right so dynamics are played out where it looks like oh there's a there's uh there yay there's all of this uh upliftment mighty companionship uh you know words were spoken like now I'm here you're never gonna be alone again stuff like that or you're never gonna then probably alone wasn't the word used but you're never gonna do it on your own I'm here with you I'm by your side now stuff like that right so people don't really know what they're doing because they're being used as puppet and the and the love is already there. There's all kinds of love right uh but it just comes in it's kind of like this energy that's going I'm going to uh it's like I'm going to distract you in a big way right now from this spiritual opening that you just had right I've seen this so many times with my friends too saying why does it just happen I just got off like a week of meditation and I had all these insights and then all of a sudden I'm drawn with this guy and we're just like oh so in love so in love and and not long afterwards it's like it blows up that is that dynamic that I'm talking about it's like it's like the ego is hungry for this energy to suck this light out of the system so that you're not able to use it. Here's the thing though it doesn't win when you know what it is see when you're recognizing okay the Holy Spirit's got this and like all throughout this relating where it started to get whoa trippy like that I kept on reminding myself almost like a mantra okay Holy Spirit's purpose all of this is for the Holy Spirit's purpose all of it is being to the point where it even it would even annoy him that I was saying it so much. Because you know there'd be questions about the relationship I'm like it's all for the Holy Spirit's purpose. There's no other purpose but the Holy Spirit's purpose and I would keep on saying that you know to the point where why do you keep on saying that I'm like because it's not integrated yet that it this is for the Holy Spirit's purpose. That's why there's all this fear and all these questions and all these it's just for that uh once you see that it's for the Holy Spirit's purpose it's easy to relax in the patterns and let them play themselves out. So what I would perceive was this pulling away and when I'd see the pulling away I'd go okay and then uh just go ahead and pull away that's good do the pulling away thing uh but then there would be like no I want to come back and then pull away again then no I want to come back again like that right so uh so so it's like just holding it like that okay I see okay all right oh you want to come back again once it was like I know you don't trust me but this time I look I still don't trust you but come on back okay I know I'm gonna see all kinds of patterns I know there's gonna be pain I know it's gonna be there's gonna be a sense of heartache I know it's uh that it's gonna be shocking and hard but you know what for right now something else is hard and I'm down with that right about yeah you know everything will shake itself out in the long run everything will everything will reveal itself in the long run there's no reason to make it hard on ourselves at all we could just play and have a good ass time okay is not it's not anything about like we need to punish anyone no you can't have any of this now it's like man if the energy's right and everyone's fucking vibing you know maybe tomorrow morning they're gonna be doing the same pattern again it's okay you just chill out in it you just hold it with an open hand and let it unwind that's how things really get unwound too it's like it's all right oh don't worry about it yeah I know okay yeah you're pretending you're uh gonna uh be devoted to me now again because you're horny That's fine. No need to punish anyone. Right? It's just the it's just for joy, really. It's just the game. And you know, Jesus said we can undo our patterns like happy children. We could just be like, we could just be playing like happy children. We don't have to get uh get mean or anything. And we can all of our relating can can be so sweet, even as this stuff is unwinding. And you know, that's what I'm inviting uh with everyone, you know, because these patterns, yes, they seem to be personal, but they're not. And when you know, you see that none of them are personal, you can walk right through them, observing them all the way and see everything. That's what lets me to see everything because it's like I'm not stopping the process too early, even you know, I'm just allowing the the process to unfold, right? So Natalie's question. What's your question about envy? Um, what if we could relate it still?

SPEAKER_03: 1:01:15

Um the pattern, okay. So pattern I want to see through would be uh so say I was witnessing you and Chayton uh with the guidance of the ego and being like, oh my gosh, look, this loving couple dancing, and it's like why I want that. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:36

Oh yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_03: 1:01:39

So I guess just that. Okay, that's a good one. Yeah, I mean, we're um gosh, I mean, people are just doing their thing, you know, maybe they're really to like tapped in the spirit. Um, but how it's like, oh, someone who's I mean, nothing's really happening, but sometimes it seems like things are happening, and apparently someone might be like better off than someone.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:05

Where someone seems to be better off in some way. Yeah, I think you brought that up and you brought that up in another way, too. Okay, so uh Natalie's question is around envy. You can use as an example people witnessing uh me dancing with my friend and and feeling that that sense. A lot of people uh spelt a lot of uh connection, you know, connection to spirit. I could that's what I could see. It's like, oh my goodness, they'd come up and they I'd see the light in their eyes, you know. And Natalie's saying, well, what if they're experiencing envy for toward that? Or what if there's envy toward something else someone has? Maybe they have a nice house on the water in Hawaii, right where you want to be, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's the same pattern, it's just envy, right? And envy is basically saying, I don't have what they have, I want what they have. You know, underlying that is an idea that something in this world can actually satisfy you.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:10

Also, that they're satisfied with what you think you want, and that there's levels of like, oh, um, God sustains people, but not equally.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:23

God sustains people, but not equally. Yeah, that idea, right? Right.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:27

A hierarchy, a hierarchy of being deserving of God's love.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:32

Yeah, and God isn't giving anything to you. God really isn't giving anything to you. You know, you're the one who's uh perceiving the manifestations of your state of mind. You're you're just perceiving manifestations out of your state of mind. The thing is why it seems like God gives it to you is because the more clear you get as far as your patterns being undone, the more everything seems to work out for you. And that's only because the light in your mind isn't being obscured by as many patterns. So it's being caused by the light is brighter coming from your mind. Well, it's always the same brightness, but brighter as it expresses in the world. Uh, so you see that reflection. So the more you are unwinding your patterns, the more you're gonna see. Number one, your problems are solved. That's what Jesus was saying as early as chapter three. You haven't thought of this course, a course in miracles, as a solve to your problems. It's time to start looking at it that way. It's just not in the way the ego sees. All your problems have already been solved, apparent problems. So, you know, let's say, let's say this was taken as a problem, which it wasn't at all, that I didn't seem to have a uh dance partner here, someone to go dancing with, someone to hang out with. Let's say that might be like a problem. I which wish a partner like that would show up. See, as soon as it's not a problem, they're probably just gonna be showing up if it's maximally beneficial for that to occur. But see, what I know and what lets me be at complete ease about everything is what is meant to occur will occur. The people who are supposed to be orchestrated into my life will be orchestrated into my life, they're just gonna show up in my field. I don't need to chase them, I don't need to go out with any kind of an agenda, right? Like, you know what I mean. You're out at a place and you're looking around for possible suspects, right? And because of that, I can watch the mind. My mind is a total perv. I have shared that with you guys a lot, okay? I'll say, oh yeah, the thing is that's not me. That's the thing, that's not me. It's just it's just uh acknowledging that thought is there. There it is, and it's not me. That's all. You don't have to do anything about it. You know, one of my friends shared with me recently that he noticed a thought occur to him how easy it would be to molest this little boy that was in the room, right? And he's like, I'm not one to molest anyone, and I go, that doesn't matter. Those thoughts just circulate the unconscious mind, they pop up, right? And it's like, how are you gonna view it? Because the spirit, the Holy Spirit can use anything as a means for awakening, anything that means a thought about how to molest a boy becomes something for the spirit to use to wake up the mind. And one way it's waking up the mind is you noticing that thought is not coming from you, it's coming from outside, outside, right? It's projected, that's why. That's why I'm saying outside, it's projected to outside the mind. You projected the ego, that's why it's a dream, it's an apparition. So uh it's not it's not really there, it's projected. All the ego thoughts are projected. Certainly, a thought about molesting a boy is coming from the ego. That's not you. See, if you believe it is you and you try to resist it, you're probably gonna find yourself following it instead. Right? And that's the thing about the unconscious mind. The ego takes what comes out of the unconscious mind and says it is you, that it's your voice, it's not your voice. That's what sets you free from it in an instant. Oh, thank goodness that's not my voice. You know what else you could see in that moment? Oh, I see how people get hooked. They perceive that thought, and then they believe it's them. They believe they're attracted to little boys, they're not. It's not possible. It's not even possible for you to get attracted toward a relationship where you might be taking advantage of someone. You're dreaming it, but that dream can get very ugly very fast if you don't recognize that you're dreaming it. See if you identify that with a thought, oh, I must like little boys, and then you go online and you find a website where all these other guys like little boys, and it's okay. You guys can all hang out and talk about how you like little boys and you're gonna fucking get with the little boys, right? The thought itself is coming from the ego. So when you recognize that that's not my thought, you're completely clear of it. But when you think it is your thought, and then it gets even more devious, oh, you must need that. Right? And then that's why crimes start happening, right? Or you try to repress it. If it doesn't play out in your form, it's still being projected into the world, so other people are playing it out in the world. That's just how that goes. Unless you just see very simply, doesn't matter how terrible the thought is, not my thought. That's an ego thought. And so now you don't have that thought playing in your consciousness. There's no way you're gonna find yourself supporting the molestation of little boys in a dream.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:46

Isn't that so fun?

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:50

Because you just all you did was you saw that the thought was meaningless, right? That's all you did. You just saw that thought is meaningless. Hmm. And on and also, like for me, I'm like, hmm, I see how that could go down when there's when there's a weak mind, and that is that comes up in a weak mind. Right? And no mind is truly weak, they weaken themselves. See, and that goes for any kind of thoughts that are just like mean-spirited. I hope they rot in hell, for instance. Even if it's Hitler, that's the one my stepdad likes to bring up a lot. Nothing I say about forgiveness is true, and it's totally confusing because Hitler.

SPEAKER_03: 1:10:43

Even Hitler, he on some level, it's like he he was he thought he was doing good.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:51

Yeah, that was the original well, that's that's the ego. You know, she's saying Hitler thought he was doing good. That's the ego. You've heard the road to hell is paved on good intentions, right? Yeah, that's the ego. The ego's always the ego's always talking good intentions, it's protecting something, it's doing something amazing. Uh, on the issue of uh of molesting kids, too. Uh, I want to bring back uh a story from a friend of mine who was super hyper vigilant about not letting the wrong people with her child to the point where she was accusing someone of having done molestation that didn't do any molestation, and then that came out in court and everything. And the next guy that she was with was the one who did the molesting. See? So if you get super hyper-vigilant again, look at these kids, they're not kids. They're gonna have their fucking experience. You don't have to get super hyper-vigilant about it, right? If they're meant, if they're actually meant to have a molestation experience, there's nothing you can do about it. Right? There is not a thing you can, you don't need to be hyper-vigilant. I'm not saying, you know, you don't take care of your kids, right? And and you know, when they're little kids know where they are and shit like that, you know, that's just obvious. Uh, but to be like hyper-vigilant, oh no, I'm not gonna let that happen. That's trying to take control. That's different from command. Command sees everything as uh being perfect, um, perfectly loving, perfectly whole, perfectly innocent. Anything that doesn't seem like that is just a call for love. Everyone is a sovereign being, no matter their age or size. Okay, it's not like one person can actually hurt another. And any kid who has uh molestation experience that came from their mind. That does not mean, like I was just talking earlier, in case you're clipping this out and tripping out tripping balls right now. That doesn't mean that anyone should follow a thought about molesting kids. It hurts their mind, not the kids I'm talking about. There are no kids, the one line, and every attack is an attack on form. That means that that it's uh building up to playing out a scenario like molestation, like sickness, like violence in some way, another kind of violence in some way. See? So it's so it's somewhere in the middle of this hyper-vigilant. Oh, I gotta protect my kids from all these molesters and all these molesty thoughts that are poisoning people's minds, right? You look at it as well, this is a sovereign being as well, no matter the size. I can relax. This is not really my child, this is a child of God, just like I am, right? So then your thoughts go more toward caring and nurturing. Thoughts of caring and nurturing are the spirit. It's like that. It's like all we love each other. Love naturally cares and nurtures itself. That's what it does. It doesn't try to take, it doesn't try to extract. So all that kind of energy, like trying to get something from a kid, is trying to extract energy. And you know, it's not like it's not like only kids, adults do it with each other all the time.

SPEAKER_03: 1:14:27

Yeah, we're human trafficking, we're using bodies to get a sensation.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:34

Yeah, we're human, we're we are the human traffickers, yeah, basically. Yeah, we're you're trying to we're trying to get sensations using bodies, and then that brings me to sexual fantasy, right? Uh, that's the same kind of thing. And Jesus was saying in a course in miracles in chapter two, uh, that it's particularly harmful, sexual fantasy. And I'm like, oh, hmm, you know, it's an attempt to relate without really relating. We're imagining us getting something out of this relating, getting what we want out of the relating, even if it seems to be giving something to someone else, which it often does, right? So uh so when we when we do that, we actually uh you could say lose time because the time is still ticking away as far as how long this body seems to be in a world, but you're making no progress. You're just poisoning your mind with the idea that your feelings can come from other bodies, they cannot come from other bodies, they're projected from your mind. The other bodies are actually to define the feeling. So your projection of other bodies don't make them out like that. They don't just enjoy whatever the feeling is. You can enjoy whatever the feeling is, and I speak from the experience, this also works for masturbation. You do not have to have sexual fantasy for it. And what I notice is, you know, just check with your body's energy field. Notice how it is. What I notice is uh when masturbation doesn't have anything to do with another body and it doesn't have to do with any kind of fantasy or anything like that, I feel energized and alive, right? And I've noticed when it has to do with a fantasy, it's more dull. So just in noticing the different tones, too, you could see what you want and you could see what you didn't, you can see what you don't want. I've been working on the fantasy one for a little while because I've seen that before. And for me, I did not know another way. I thought it was required. I know, yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_03: 1:17:02

Right. It's like like oh, it's sort of like you feel like orgasmic energy building. It's like, oh, in order for this to like climax and go over the edge, I'm gonna have to like call on call on a memory. Yeah, it's like, oh, we gotta pull up this guilty scenario in order to like me, push it on the edge.

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:23

Like, really, we gotta, you know, get some story. Yeah, you don't need a so you yeah, you don't need a story for it. Natalie's talking about, you know, one when the juicy sexual feeling starts arising, all of a sudden the ego's rushing to go, okay. If I want this to, if I want to get this to go all the way to climax, I'm gonna have to engage something. Um, what I've noticed throughout my life is the ego rushing to define it from something in the past, some great sensation I've had in the past, uh, where I where I seem to be with someone because another body seemed to be present. And and you know, noticing just really quickly how quickly that comes in. And it seems to be real. It seems like to be that that feeling is like a reverb of something that you have experienced before. Yes, it's not like that, though. It's actually uh a habit, a feeling habit arising. So you can enjoy habits, habits aren't bad. Enjoy the feeling sensation without giving it any kind of story, any kind of body story, right? You don't need any story for it. That's what I noticed. You know, that's and and that's how even sex that seems to be with another person uh got so deep and loving as well, because there's no fantasy involved. It's just pure delight within each other. Uh lots of lot of it's lovely eye contact contains lovely eye contact, stuff like that. Um, but none of this like porno kind of thing, the way that we've been taught, you know, uh to to be um fantasizing, right? It's like it's like even when it's like, oh, uh say this to me or do this or something like that. It's like you don't need you don't really need that. Okay, but you don't really need that because you're projecting the feeling. You're the one projecting the feeling. So in this way, it takes performance out of love making. It takes performance completely out because then you're just engaging so beautifully that things just arise where they need to, slow down, uh uh engage in loving communication during it, during the act, instead of. Speeding through it. And it seems to be that there's a lot of speeding through it. For one, uh, women report, they don't want them to go that long. I talked about three hour uh lovemaking sessions. They're like, how do you go that long? And I'm like, man, when it's like that, time is no issue, nothing's getting chafed. It's like the juiciness remains. Nothing's not, you know, nothing's like, well, I was gonna say nothing's hard, but yeah, there's nothing difficult about it. There's no expectations, it's just a beautiful unfolding, a beautiful uh interaction, communication, you can say, right? Where you don't have any kind of performance because there's no idea about how this is supposed to go because of fantasy. You never know, you might not even get the snake in the hole.

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:07

I will say though, just because it involves the body, yes, it it's sort of like, well, yeah, you can have like love making slash north, oh yeah, so there's an hour. It's like, yeah, there could been like those moments, but the opposite is always coming. So even in the opposite, what's the what do you mean? An experience of like love making, there I find there'll be like both where it's like, oh yeah, there was moments of connection, and then just I don't feel like it's just because it's it does involve this body, and this body is ego, and so there's no body though, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:47

There that's a that's the thing. So so and so what Natalie is talking about is she's she's noticing moments of connection, but other moments we're feeling disconnected, right?

SPEAKER_03: 1:22:00

Yeah, because it's like, well, wait, because the opposite is coming. There's anything there's anything involving bodies, it's just like don't hold on to grasp too tightly to this, like, oh my gosh, we feel so connected in this moment.

SPEAKER_02: 1:22:15

Because it's like, give it it's always changing. Yeah, it's all yes, the coming, it's love-making sessions. Yeah, and yes, in the love making sessions, there there may be an opposite coming. Um here's the thing, it's just because of clinging. She said it correctly. She's grasping uh clinging. I'm not sure how she said it, but either one of those is right. Uh, it's just because of the clinging that these highs and lows seem so high and low rather than inward deep. There's it's a difference. Okay. There is a difference. So what I'm talking about is uh is is actually like being in it for many hours without having these uh certainly there's there's like fluctuation and sensation and stuff like that, but a sense where there's disconnection and then connection again, and the sense where the opposites have to play out. Look at the opposites do not have to play out once what you don't want is undone. Okay, so eat this even affects love making. This even affects that. There's no uh there's the the this sense of the sense of connection when there's not grasping, that grows. When there's grasping, the opposite is is coming. That's all. And see, it has nothing to do with circumstance, it really has nothing to do with circumstance. So it's like what I notice is when I sense a loss of connection, that's singularly coming for me. Right? It's just coming for me. And and when I'm recognizing that it's coming to coming for me, I'm back in connection because I'm not trying to make a story about it. I'm not going, ho hum, as much as much connection as I get, the opposite is always coming, the disconnection is always coming. No, it's not true. Only if you grip to it, the opposite is coming. And when the opposite does come, that's another opportunity to undo gripping. That's easy. You could you could do it right in the love making session. The love-making session can be a miraculous love-making session. There's no time where the miracle is not in effect, and you can use the miracle right there. Oh, it seems like we lost connection. Oh, gosh, I'm projecting that. You know, Natalie, uh, it just occurred to me too. You brought up before, like uh quite a few times actually, uh, about the like sex seeming robotic. Like all of a sudden, you're just you're not, you don't feel like you're connecting at all. There's just this repetitive motion, like even if it's right on your vagina, it's just like this repetitive thing.

SPEAKER_03: 1:25:09

Yeah, sometimes all of a sudden I'll be hyper aware of just like just the humor of it, of just like the flapping back and forth flashing. It just seems, yeah, awesome.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:20

She becomes hyper aware of the flapping back and forth of flesh. I love that. I have had that experience as well.

SPEAKER_03: 1:25:29

It seems absurd, yeah. That this would be taken for connection. Right, and good. Is even be has their programming where it's like, uh, yeah, this is what I take to be connection, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So so she's saying that uh that that it looks like it looks funny because there's like these parts flapping around on one another, and that is what's being taken for connection, and this is the thought that's occurring her during to her during love making. And then she's and then she she she goes on and starts thinking about how her partner probably does take it for connection, right? So uh it's like it's like you don't need all those thoughts. It's like basically you're getting the sense of this robotic kind of thing. That means your attention went squarely into the form. You're not really experiencing the broader experience. There's a lot more than that robotic thing that you're sensing, that you're putting your attention on and actually making it robotic. You can't, yeah, you can't be uh also aware of the breath and the sensation on the skin and every and all the different things that are being taken in in a sensory way. Uh, when they're all taken in together, that's where you can, you know, really, and connection has to do with being aware of your senses. So if you look at it like that, you're you're in bed, you're making love. Oh, I've just become unaware of my senses. Where are my senses again? I've had that happen um when I was uh when I was making love with my husband before, where I got that kind of robotic thing. And that's exactly how I saw it. I was like, oh, I'm not aware of my senses. Because you're gonna narrow down to the specific point where that activity is occurring, uh, because to the ego, there's a goal in mind. That's some sort of uh ejaculation climax, something like that. So the ego wants to narrow it down. Oh, yeah, right there, right there, right there, right there. Right. Um, when it's really a whole, uh it's it's a whole embodied, let's say it's a whole embodied present experience.

SPEAKER_00: 1:27:47

See, it's kind of like a a pinnacle example of grasping, right?

SPEAKER_02: 1:27:52

Yeah, yeah, exactly. That was really good. Yes, uh, yeah, uh Orbot picked up on that was a pinnacle example of grasping where your attention is going to that little spot where you're hoping that that's gonna finally get stimulated to the point where you have some kind of uh closing ceremony down there. All right, uh, yeah, grasping, exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 1:28:15

Can you say more though about what grasping means exactly?

SPEAKER_02: 1:28:18

Well, you want the experience to go the you think you want the experience to go the way you think you want it to go. Okay. Uh one friend put it, this was many years ago too. Uh somehow she just knew I knew. She's like, she's like, what do I do when I'm you know I'm in a sexual situation and I feel my body tensing up because I'm trying to get an orgasm. And I said, relax. That's the grasping. You can feel it, you tense up in your body's energy field. It's sex is a great place to practice, actually, right? Because you feel your your focus of attention getting really narrowed down to this place that's supposed to be the magic place where there's gonna be a beautiful explosion, right? But really, it's an it's a whole experience. So allowing yourself, and you know, your ten your attention, of course, is gonna be pulled there, and then at some point it's gonna be pulled to that area and it's not gonna have any tension with it, right? And then it's gonna be, yeah. So allowing the attention to just be like open and and that this goes for anything. Oh, let's say you're at the coffee shop, okay? And uh the coffee maker broke down, and you get a sense that there's tension. That tension is saying I can't enjoy my experience. My attention is all narrowed down to I don't have my coffee, I thought I was gonna get one, that's why I came in, came in here. You're gonna enjoy the experience more when you recognize getting the coffee is not the reason I can't I'm here. Just like getting the orgasm is not the reason I'm here. It's not to get the orgasm.

SPEAKER_03: 1:30:00

Okay, so then so basically there's something going on. We're using this world. There is a setup. So and the setup, uh-huh, we have set it up. Yes, and so if we're gonna set it up. Sex is an example. I was talking to my friend Petra about this a couple days ago. I was like, how the fuck is your sex life and stuff like that? And I was like, what about that weird thing where like your partner they're like they'll do a couple strokes, and all of a sudden one stroke will be like the stroke, yeah, and then it's like can you just can you do that? And you keep doing that, yeah. It's like they it's impossible. And her and I were laughing so much because we're like, it's not on them, these poor guys, because it's literally the breadth of a hair, uh-huh. As wide as a hair, if you get off, they're on all the sensation. But if it's a hair to the left, you're like, then you get off. You know, and so that must be that's how we set it up to make it so impossible. Isn't it silly? So the ego's definition, yeah. That's the ego. That's the ego. I got what was that?

SPEAKER_02: 1:31:09

And you can never have that again because yeah, the ego managed the ego managing pleasure. Okay, hold on before you go on, because I have people who need to hear the the scenario that we're talking about here. So um, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00: 1:31:25

You need to mic up everyone.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31:27

That'd be good if you can if you can manage that, please do it. Yeah. So so so Natalie was talking about how it seems like a funny ego setup. How you know, sometimes someone can be working on you for a while, and and all of a sudden one certain different stroke will occur, and you'll be like, oh, that's it. Oh, you got to get to that spot. Keep doing that spot, keep going on that spot. Here's what I'm saying: you do not know you want that spot. Like just uh notice. Oh, that was great. And then see what happens next. See, it's like trying to control your pleasure. That's the ego. The ego wants to try to control your pleasure. Look, when I go into uh sexual interaction, uh, I don't know if I'm going to even be getting any pleasure. I'm not sure. The the purpose, though, the the whole purpose is forgiveness as the light of the world. Thoughts come up even anytime. And then I'd say it's especially during that. And any pleasure that arises in the physical sense, that's like icing on the cake, so to speak. Okay. That doesn't mean I'm trying to go into sexual interactions with people who have a soft penis, though. That's not happening. At least that's what I've observed right now. And just like I'm saying, you know, anything like that, any kind of preference, anything like that, just being gentle with it. It's not like you have to try to make yourself anything. Uh, you don't need to have sexual interactions. It's not necessary, right? So, you know, just observing myself. That's what I'm always doing, anyways. I notice I'm not really that interested in having uh sexual interactions with people with soft penises. Uh yeah. And it doesn't matter what else they can do. Um, at least that's what I've I've perceived so far. So I mean, anything like that, it's just gentle. It doesn't mean it's not gonna happen. It doesn't mean that. Uh, but it's still saying, uh, hey, it's it's it's meaningless, and you're not forced to try to prove anything by having sex with people with soft penises.

SPEAKER_03: 1:33:54

What I was gonna say, too, the setup is such that um, and you know, first I'm wanting to use everything to see now. So I was like, I was like, oh yeah. So I was like, then what's coming after that sensation of going, that was amazing, was so much disappointment. Like I was noticing the level to which um it feels disappointing and even anger, like not to then have other sensations that are like just feel annoying after that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:34:23

Yep, that's the ego again, right? Yeah, annoying. I've had that too. I've had that too. Annoying sensations. You know what I do? I do the same thing as I do with everything. I'm projecting the sensation as annoying right now. Yeah, so then the annoying sensation, it's blessed as part of what's arising to be seen and undone. I've seen it switch immediately when I've noticed what the annoying sensation is. Where is it coming from? Right? I mean, if there's a sense that like it's uh doing something wrong, like chafing you somehow, you want to say something, of course, but uh oh, but what I'm saying, like in my experience, I have just uh go, okay, I'm projecting it like that. I'm watching my mind because the mind leaves, the mind takes off on all kinds of different journeys. And then you're thinking you had you had an experience with this person. No, you did not have any experience with them. You're just projecting onto them the whole time. You do want to have an experience with them. Now you want to be in true communication with them, whether you're having sex or eating a meal or whatever you seem to be doing. You want to be there in true communication with the with them. How do you do that? You recognize the thoughts that are projecting and apply forgiveness. That thought doesn't mean anything. It's not it, it's not even coming from me. In fact, you can even look at that annoying sensation. It's not even coming from you. It's still projected from the ego, right? Uh, but it's it's coming from you in the sense that it's not being done to you. Nothing is making you annoyed. That's the part where that just changes everything. Not only does it change all your relationships, but it brings dominion back to where it actually is. See, you're in communication with everybody and everything and even every circumstance through these God particles that they're all comprised of. They are not comprised of what they seem to be. This matter, the cells, the bone. Uh, this is not the kind of particles that they're actually comprised of. Everything is comprised of these God particles that you communicate with. We're in communication with everything. Uh, if we will allow ourselves to see that we actually are in communication. There's no time when we're not in communication. We just get a dream that we're not in communication. But a lot of the times we think we are in communication when we're not, right? Uh, because the way we're relating with someone, we're relating with them as if they're an object, as if the annoyed sexual sensation is coming from the way they do sex. No, it's not coming from them at all. That's a projection. So when you recognize, oh, that that doesn't mean you have to have you have to go have sex with them again. But what I found in my experience with my husband is getting the sense of the annoyance and seeing that it's actually an illusion being projected, not mine, not his, the sensation comes back. I've had great times having sex with my husband. It's been awesome. Right? Every single time. And and and you know what? In this case, the penis wasn't that hard. You know, in in some cases, it might not even matter. It can't matter because that's just how it is. It's an interaction like that, it's a dynamic, right?

SPEAKER_03: 1:38:03

Yeah, I would like to. I mean, I feel like as of yet just when I'm taking on like connection and communication. Um of the ego, like the whole time, my whole life.

SPEAKER_01: 1:38:20

I'm just wondering what that will feel like when it's because like with Aaron and I, I'll be like, you know, be like, he's like, Where are you?

SPEAKER_03: 1:38:31

You seem like you're checking out. You're checking out, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:38:33

During sex. Yeah. Okay, hold on, hold on. She's saying that during sex, her partner is saying, Where are you? Where are you? It seems like you're checking out. That's awesome. Feedback. Oh my gosh, continue.

SPEAKER_03: 1:38:45

So but what I'm doing is I'm doing this thing where I'm like, I have I'm like doing a like a forgiveness process. So it feels like I'm trying to tap into true communication because I'm like, you know, it's like, oh my gosh, you know, that felt annoying, but like, okay, now forgive that. And like, but he's doesn't you're just trying too hard. Okay. That's all. Yeah, relax more. I'm not getting the reflection back from him that he's feeling connection, even though I feel like I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm letting go of so much judgment.

SPEAKER_02: 1:39:17

Yeah, don't, yeah, don't worry about uh like if you uh if you go through the whole sexual uh adventure all tensed up, basically that's what you're doing. You're tensed up. That's why it seems like she's sees she's saying she's trying to do a per forgiveness practice, and her partner's going, you're checking out. Yeah, yeah, because forgiveness isn't like that, it's not something that you actually have to try. You're just acknowledging in the moment everything that happened that's happening is fucking perfect and being projected so that you can see it's like you there's no there's no checking out and going to think about that. You know, it's just like recognizing uh okay, there's that. And well, I've Noticed, you know, both orgasms are just like really easy, uh, from my perspective, no problem at all. I've noticed that uh feeling of annoyance and just simply very simply not looking for what can I forgive, what can I forgive, is recognizing that the annoyance is being projected right now. That's not the reality. And then I'll watch, and the next thing you know, I'm multi-orgasmic, right? Uh, because that's my natural state. It's not because it's the opposite of annoyance. Uh we are one of my friends, one of my friends uh told me the org on my web address stands for orgasm. Hopejohnson.orgasm. That's where you find everything.

unknown: 1:40:56

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 1:40:58

So uh and and and you know, I I see that it's not because of anything that I do, like as far as in the world or anything like that. It's my mind because I'm not expecting the other person to please me somehow. I'm enjoying the process. Uh now, let me say, if they're in a uh sexual situation uh with me and they seem to be like all like they just want to just take, take, take, take, take and not give sexually up, probably be like, hey, what the fuck kind of sexual arrangement is this? But you know, you know, I I mean, when you're just coming together and loving each other up, it's completely uh, you know, just just being allowed to be authentic, allowed to be uh open, not blaming or making the other the feeling about the other person. Sometimes someone will ask me, like, how uh uh how what do you want? You want me to do anything different? I'm like, I'm fucking coming, so go ahead and keep on doing whatever you're doing. It's always the same. It's like really, I'm just like going through these motions where I'm just like going, okay, now it's like this. Now it's like uh uh okay, it's about ready to be an orgasm, uh, but it's like coming and then it's coming up again. That's basically like that. It's not going like all the way to annoyance, um, usually. But if I if it does, it's very brief. It's not blamed on the situation at all. So the natural uh how we and also here's the other thing about us. Uh uh, we are naturally orgasmic and coming together with uh with one another that is naturally orgasmic when we're not projecting a bunch of things. So it, you know, it's not like anything special. No one has anything special. Some of us might enjoy the uh uh activity of sex more than other activities, uh, myself included. Uh, you know, I joke around like, man, if there's really nothing here, nothing to do, uh we we just make love all day. Like we don't have to do anything else. Right? Uh and you know, that doesn't that doesn't seem to manifest in my experience, although I have had some like really long uh up to five hours in a day, which is really fabulous. Um but it's it doesn't uh it doesn't even need to manifest at all. That's what I notice. Like I could have the joy of it and have it not manifesting, also. So it's not like, oh, there's the next uh one for that or something like that. No, it'll arise spontaneously and show me, it's not even up to me. And because I seem to enjoy it, uh yeah, that just arises. That's what happens, that's how it goes because the spirit is sweet to you like that. So hooray. Oh uh oh, Glenn, Glenn says, I know Glenn, I gotta stop laughing so I can read it. Staying rock hard while opening to you should do the cliff notes, Glenn. Staying rock hard while opening to relaxing more, practice makes perfect. Thank you for that, Glenn. I really appreciate it. Yeah, you know, uh, when it comes to wisdom dialogues, everything gets into it because everything can be used and will be used by either the spirit or the Holy Spirit. We were we were looking at this, we were just reading about this in a course in miracles last week, uh, Wednesday or something. Um everything, even things that the ego make can either be used by the Holy Spirit or the ego at your election. See that? So look it now.

SPEAKER_01: 1:45:24

Apply it to the thought of molesting a little boy, right? If you make the thought fearful, it rules you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:45:37

But if you just notice, oh, that's not coming, that's not even coming from me, really. We say it's coming from us as in there's no outside force doing something to you, but also you projected the ego and all of its thoughts. They're not your real thoughts. That's one way of saying. Hey, that's not even my real thought. I don't have to keep that. Then you actually lessen harmful things. You don't want to keep any thought like that. I don't like that, right? And if you think you do like it, you've just not gone to a further point of being deranged. That's not also not bad. It's a call for love. It needs help to kind of like bring you back. So you see that extracting something something from someone is not something that is uplifting. See? So, yay, everyone. So, does anyone have any questions for me? Let me know now because we will be winding down very shortly. I do. Yay! What do you have?

SPEAKER_00: 1:46:41

So you're saying then when I asked what is grasping, um, you're saying it's wanting a particular experience.

SPEAKER_02: 1:46:48

Yes, a particular experience. That's right. You got it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:46:52

And that relates to what you're saying, like because there's that annoyance, or there's this opposite, this contrast, and it can be like it can be like that experience you want, and then a minute later the hair's difference or whatever on one way or the other, then it can be the one that you're not what you want, and you want that one. Yeah, so um, isn't there something in grasping about making a mistake in who we take ourselves to be? And that's what leads us to wanting to grasp, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:47:23

Yes, you're right. So Orbaz saying, isn't there uh in grasping, isn't it the result of mistaking who we are? You know, is really yes, always. Yes, it always is. And you know, to further uh talk about grasping, it's when you want you you're hankering for an experience, you're clamoring for an experience. It's a faulty you, that's right. That's that's right. That's doing the clamoring. That is a really good point, too. So look, it's identifying with that clamoring that makes it like you're doing it. But when you recognize that clamoring itself, right, even during sex, where you're clamoring for the experience, let's say, that that that's which is clamoring, it's perfect, it's used by the Holy Spirit. See?

SPEAKER_00: 1:48:18

Right, because you're just saying, like, we we have the choice about using all these experiences.

SPEAKER_02: 1:48:23

That's right.

SPEAKER_00: 1:48:24

And and for like the high the the one great highest purpose of um forgiveness or the atonement for all for it. And like, yeah, I I you remember in the past you talked about like because it's not our fault. Like, if we're having these or whatever, and we want these particular experiences, it wasn't even under our control. No, but we do have the control then to choose in that moment, oh, like to see, to choose to even just want to know what's the root of this, like to be observing, to even want to be observing, exactly, and then to say, oh, am I making a mistake in who I take myself to be?

SPEAKER_02: 1:49:05

That's right. That's it, that's exactly it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:49:08

That's the question that I ask myself, if I can remember, you know, if I've chosen to remember, yeah. Like that's the that's what's behind any upset feeling of annoyance or anything. That's and it's the root of grasping. So, and then if we can just choose to ask ourselves that question and and be willing, like open to like let me see the truth. Yes, what who am I really? Okay, yeah. Uh, I mean, I had an alarm come up on my phone, like several different ones, but one of them is who am I? You know, it's like silent, but it's like a couple times a day it says, Who am I? And you know, am I making a mistake in who I take myself to be? Good. Different things like that. I just had one that came up and said, Who is God? Right? And I'll say you. Good. Yeah, so like just we have that's like our power, right? That's that relates to what I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_02: 1:49:56

Yeah, so uh, so Orva wanted to clarify this, and I love it too that he's clarifying this. Uh, that even when we find ourselves clamoring for experience, that's not really us. We're not capable of clamoring for experience. So, what's clamoring for experience is really an imposter thought. And when you notice that, there's also the recognition you don't have to clamor for experience. Experience is coming, including all the pleasure. And there'll be more and more of that pleasure without having to have an opposite, also. Um, as you're willing to be released from this identity, actually identifying with that which is clamoring for experience is hanging on to identity. See that? So it's you're you're right, it all comes down to identity. Who am I taking myself to be right now? I'm not gonna be clamoring for experience, I'm not gonna be grasping, I'm not gonna be projecting unless I'm taking myself to be an illusion. I'm making myself out to be something that I'm not. Yes, that's right. The thought that you got separate and somehow you're not God. All right, you guys, thank you for joining. I love you so much. Please go to hopejohnson.org for all the free resources. Also, you can donate there to my uh religious nonprofit ministry, where you can get a tax write-off there. Um, what else? My book is on there. I got a book on schooling for parents and more. I'll just say more. That way you can look it up. Yes, if you and someone someone was looking for my ACIM lessons, a course in miracles lessons. I've read all three 365 of them now, and I've contemplated them. They're on my website, and there's a tab that says free resources, and then it says daily ACIM or Course in Miracles. Go there. I think the very top lesson is 365, but you could scroll all the way down, I believe, fairly easily to number one. And it's also on podcast stations like Spotify, like iTunes, or is it called Apple Music now? Um, whatever that Google one is, I think that switched to YouTube now. It's even on YouTube. So you can get these free resources in a lot of different ways. And I think the easiest way to find out what's available to you is to go to hopejohnson.org. Yay. I'll be back on Wednesday with a Course in Miracles deep dive. We are having fun. We're in the middle of a cameo right now, which is basically where it's it's the background uh before chapter three, a part of chapter three, early part of chapter three was channeled. So Jesus was actually having conversations with the channeler and uh her partner, uh, business partner, and he was talking about their relationship, and we can see how these same kinds of dynamics play in ours. Super enlightening. Um, join me if you feel inspired. That'll be Wednesday at 3 to 5 p.m. Pacific time now. I almost said Hawaii time. That is not it. Three to five Pacific time on Wednesday, and until then, mahalo, aloha, and uh hoo-e-ho!

SPEAKER_01: 1:53:41

Woo! Thank you, Glenn. I love you.